Logo considerations

[Richard Hainsworth]

Hats off to the designer of the gimel symbol - the associations with
anarchy are probably right for perl6. But to be honest, a letter didnt
quite inspire me. Since, I dont want to criticize without providing
other ideas, here are some thoughts.

Logos can contain meaning. I am not sure whether the Camel was chosen
for a meaning, or because it was something to put on a book cover.

But one could say, it is an animal that goes into a desert where no
others can. Sort of going where no one has gone before.....

There seem to be a lot of animals attached to software things, such as a
camel, but also a penguin and a parrot.

So how about choosing another animal for perl6?

My choice would be a lion, perhaps one lazing in the sun. The meaning
that it is lazy, but it has raw power when it needs, and is the king of
the jungle.

Alternatively, if we stay away from animals, then how about something to
do with parallelism, or super-positioning, or even a strange attractor,
since perl6 can be strange and yet it is attractive.

Richard

[jerry gay]

there have been plenty of good ideas and it's great to see an open
discussion on this topic. however, since it hasn't been mentioned
before, know that the camel, in relation to perl, is the sole property
of o'reilly. this is why tpf doesn't use the camel--instead it uses
an onion. i'm interested to see what comes out of this discussion,
but a camel isn't an option.

~jerry

[Timothy S. Nelson]

On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Timothy S. Nelson wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Richard Hainsworth wrote:
>
>> My choice would be a lion, perhaps one lazing in the sun. The meaning that
>> it is lazy, but it has raw power when it needs, and is the king of the
>> jungle.
>

> Is there a way we can also show it to be impatient and hubristic? :)

>
>> Alternatively, if we stay away from animals, then how about something to do
>> with parallelism, or super-positioning, or even a strange attractor, since
>> perl6 can be strange and yet it is attractive.
>

> Ok, I've attached a logo mockup of lazy, (supposedly) parallel lions
> that are strangely attracted to each other. Think of this logo mockup as a
> wiki -- feel free to hack on it, especially if you can get the lions to be
> hubristically superpositioned while also remaining parallel and attracted.

Or, if we made the magnetic lines of force hexagonal (inspired by
Conrad Schneiker), and superpositioned (ie. superimposed) the whole thing over
the Parrot logo, that would be kinda cool. Although if we keep going like
this, the logo will look like a Graeme Base picture.

:)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is, |
| E-mail: way...@wayland.id.au | I am |
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[Darren Duncan]

Timothy S. Nelson wrote [on p6l]:

> On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Timothy S. Nelson wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Richard Hainsworth wrote:
>>> Alternatively, if we stay away from animals, then how about something
>>> to do with parallelism, or super-positioning, or even a strange
>>> attractor, since perl6 can be strange and yet it is attractive.
>>
>> Ok, I've attached a logo mockup of lazy, (supposedly) parallel
>> lions that are strangely attracted to each other. Think of this logo
>> mockup as a wiki -- feel free to hack on it, especially if you can get
>> the lions to be hubristically superpositioned while also remaining
>> parallel and attracted.
>
> Or, if we made the magnetic lines of force hexagonal (inspired by
> Conrad Schneiker), and superpositioned (ie. superimposed) the whole
> thing over the Parrot logo, that would be kinda cool. Although if we
> keep going like this, the logo will look like a Graeme Base picture.

If you're going for sciencey or mathey illustrations, then I think its important
to include something that speaks quantum physics in there, since quantum
superpositions aka Junctions are one of the big central user features that Perl
6 provides which is relatively new to languages in general.

For example, one particularly iconic illustration is the cat in the sealed box
with poison and a Geiger counter, aka Schrödinger's cat.

Or rather than images of an alive and dead cat superimposed, you could have
images of other mutually exclusive things superimposed.

And depending on what things you choose, then those items can pull multiple-duty
as other symbols (a boon to a logo); eg, those 2 lions, depending how you look
at it, could be either powerful/lazy, or alive/dead. Mind you, you don't want
to go too far away such that it isn't easy to perceive the quantum
interpretation without being told it is there.

On a related matter, remember that when going for a logo you don't want to make
it *too* complicated. With symbols, often less is more. And also we probably
want something that will work scaled up or down. It should certainly look good
as black and white line-art. I know they are more examples, but some things I
saw suggested looked a bit too complicated. On the other hand, arguably the
gimel is too simple. But I'm sure something good can be worked out.

-- Darren Duncan

[Carl Mäsak]

Richard (>):

> There seem to be a lot of animals attached to software things, such as a
> camel, but also a penguin and a parrot.
>
> So how about choosing another animal for perl6?

For some reason, when I think of Rakudo Perl 6, I imagine something
quite close to Futurama's Nibbler.

<http://images.google.com/images?q=nibbler+futurama>

If an artist could base a mascot out of that, I believe it would be great.

Also, we could use it in a comic strip I've been imagining for some
time now: one where Perl 6 is kept in a cage in some dark caverns,
held prisoner by the Perl 6 Cabal (there's no Cabal) for fear of what
powers it could unleash in the world... crying in a tiny voice:
"releeease me!". :-)

Or we could just go with a hexagonal shape. Hexagons are nice too.

// Carl

[Darren Duncan]

Replying to myself on the quantum thing, as I mentioned an image involving an
transparent overlap of two generally mutually exclusive things (each a very
simple image for the logo's sake) could have all sorts of symbolism. I
mentioned the Junctions meaning already, but I wanted to add that in general it
speaks to the idea of combining things in a package, or particularly to Perl's
TimToady concept, or to that artist's comment about others seeing a block of
wood but that person seeing whatever it would turn into once carved. But yes, I
think that whatever logo we have would be better to have 2 distinct and
overlapping elements than just a single element.

Replying to at least 3 others, can we please go back to keeping the Perl
discussion lists for text only emails, and keep image attachments etc out?
Please just post a url to your image ideas rather than attaching them. Who
needs 200K individual emails when a 3K email and a link works fine.

Thank you. -- Darren Duncan

[Damian Conway]

Earlier I wrote:

> Maybe just something like one of the attached graphics
> (only redone by someone with actual graphical design skills ;-)?

It occurs to me that this comment might be misread as an implied
criticism of Conrad's original artwork as well. Just wanted to make it
very clear that was definitely not the case.

Damian

[James Fuller]

I think if the logo alluded to something revolving around a xmas
present would be appropriate.

-Jim Fuller

[Timothy S. Nelson]

Feel free to criticise mine, though -- the logo I did needs rework
using graphic design skills, rather than cut + paste.

[Daniel Ruoso]

Em Seg, 2009-03-23 às 21:47 -0700, Darren Duncan escreveu:
> If you're going for sciencey or mathey illustrations, then I think its important
> to include something that speaks quantum physics in there, since quantum
> superpositions aka Junctions are one of the big central user features that Perl
> 6 provides which is relatively new to languages in general.

A zombie cat?

sorry... couldn't resist...

daniel

[Mark J. Reed]

Are we seeking a logo for Perl 6 in general or Rakudo in particular?
It seems like the latter should be derived from the former, perhaps
with the Parrot logo mixed in.

On 3/24/09, Daniel Ruoso <dan...@ruoso.com> wrote:
> Em Ter, 2009-03-24 às 09:01 -0300, Daniel Ruoso escreveu:
>> A zombie cat?
>
> While I wasn't really serious about it...
>
>
>
>

--
Sent from my mobile device

Mark J. Reed <mark...@gmail.com>

[Daniel Ruoso]

[Dan Stephenson]

On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:25:15 -0400, Daniel Ruoso <dan...@ruoso.com> wrote:

> are you suggesting that the cat should be eating a parrot in the rakudo
> logo?

Haha... that's pretty funny.

--
ispy++

[Daniel Ruoso]

Em Ter, 2009-03-24 às 09:17 -0400, Mark J. Reed escreveu:
> Are we seeking a logo for Perl 6 in general or Rakudo in particular?
> It seems like the latter should be derived from the former, perhaps
> with the Parrot logo mixed in.

are you suggesting that the cat should be eating a parrot in the rakudo
logo?

...

sorry, couldn't resist... again...

daniel

[John Macdonald]

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:17:15AM -0400, Mark J. Reed wrote:
> Are we seeking a logo for Perl 6 in general or Rakudo in particular?
> It seems like the latter should be derived from the former, perhaps
> with the Parrot logo mixed in.

The graphene logo inspires me to suggest that a carbon
ring be used as the logo for Parrot. Languages based
on Parrot could then use a tiny carbon ring attached to
their own logo (such as grapheme for Rakudo). Carbon does
connect well to many other chemical combinations, including
joining together things that don't otherwise bond directly
to each other. (The duct tape of the microverse, bringing
carbon-based program forms to the world. :-) A neat thing
that could come out of this would be that there would be
a convenient logo for a module that made use of multiple
languages - the carbon ring with an appropriate number of
language logos attached to it.

In keeping with the tradition that carbon rings often
have symbols inside the ring - I'd put a parrot inside a
hexagonal "birdcage" as the full-sized Parrot logo, and
only reduce it to just the small hexagon ring when it is
being used in a connected fashion, attached to other logos.

(Of course, this is not the proper forum for discussing
changing the Parrot logo to a carbon ring.)

[John Macdonald]

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 11:56:46AM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 08:42 -0700, Paul Hodges wrote:

> > --- On Tue, 3/24/09, John Macdonald <jo...@perlwolf.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The graphene logo inspires me to suggest that a carbon

> > > ring be used as the logo for Parrot...
>
> Did you mean Rakudo here ?
>
> Parrot seems to have a logo already.

Well, it may have been removed from Paul quote, but I mentioned
in my original message that this was the wrong forum to be
suggesting a new logo for Parrot, but yes Parrot is what I
was referring to.

I just realized one more connotation of using the carbon ring
for Parrot - since it provides a platform for both building
and connecting a wide variety of languages, this is the:

one ring to bind them

[Larry Wall]

http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf

[Jon Lang]

2009/3/24 Larry Wall <la...@wall.org>:
> http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf

Cute. I do like the hyper-operated smiley-face.

What I'd really like to see, though, is a logo that speaks to Perl's
linguistic roots. That, more than anything else I can think of, is
_the_ defining feature of Perl.

--
Jonathan "Dataweaver" Lang

[John Macdonald]

Maybe that's the quotes above and below the smiley face. This
has a pure ASCII rendition:

>>``:-)''<<

(although the second pair of quotes should be tilted right)

or maybe that is:

v
v
=:-)=
^
^

to be a full 90 degree rotation as all ascii smileys ought

[Larry Wall]

Oh, I forgot to mention that Camelia's larval form was a dromedary,
and she's actually got a wingspan of about 3 meters. You really
don't want to get her mad. (It is rumored that she has a very
small hump, but if so, she shows it only to her close friends.)
She was genetically engineered while metamorphizing and can change
the colors of her wings to match or contrast with her surroundings,
depending on whether she wants to hide or be noticed.

Camelia is terrifically excited to be considered for the Perl 6 mascot. :)

Larry

[Larry Wall]

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:49:42AM -0700, Jon Lang wrote:

: 2009/3/24 Larry Wall <la...@wall.org>:

Not picking on you in particular, but I think there's a tendency to
go way too abstract in most of these proposals. I want something
with gut appeal on the order of Tux. In particular I want a logo
for Perl 6 that is:

Fun
Cool
Cute
Named
Lively
Punable
Personal
Concrete
Symmetric
Asymmetric
Attractive
Relational
Metamorphic
Decolorizable
Shrinkable to textual icon
Shrinkable to graphical icon

In addition, you can extend just about anything by attaching "P6"
wings to it. I also take it as a given that we want to discourage
misogyny in our community. You of the masculine persuasion should
consider it an opportunity to show off your sensitive side. :)

Hence, Camelia.

Larry

[Doug McNutt]

You folks should really consider the oyster as perl's mascot.

The mother of pearl relationship is too good to pass up and I'll bet
that someone will come up with a bi-valve operator soon.
--

--> A fair tax is one that you pay but I don't <--

[Larry Wall]

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 01:33:41PM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote:
: I was unaware of mysogyny in the perl community. I'm sorry to hear
: about it.

In general it's not overt as it is in other communities, or even
intended--I think we do pretty well, in fact--but it's easy to
discourage people unintentionally as well, so we do need to be very
careful to be fair. And it would not be fair to give the impression
to 50% of our potential users that they have to become guys to fit in.

That's all I meant. And I'm not trying to unbalance it the other
way either. If you guys want versions of Camelia in her "attack"
mode, that's okay too. :)

And in fact, the >>ö<< form looks more like a Hyper Attack Butterfly
that is about to bite your face off... :)

Larry

[Conrad Schneiker]

Here's my latest suggestion:

http://www.athenalab.com/Rakudo_logo_2.htm

It combines Damian Conway's suggestions (please see below)
and Ross Kendall's suggestions at
(http://www.rakudo.org/some-rakudo-logo-ideas).

For a smaller sized Rakudo logo,
just remove the text between the proposed Perl 6 logo
and the Parrot logo.

The proposed Perl 6 logo is a coronene molecule
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronene).

PS: Suggested {Perl6, Parrot, Parrot languages, and CXAN}
ecosystem slogan: "brainware of the semantic web".

Best regards,
Conrad

Conrad Schneiker
www.AthenaLab.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Damian Conway [mailto:dam...@conway.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 12:40 AM
> To: Conrad Schneiker
> Cc: Perl6
> Subject: Re: Logo considerations
>
> Conrad Schneiker suggested:
>
> > Graphene has amazing electron transport characteristics due to quantum
> > effects (including superimposed wave-functions), and manifests
> > pseudo-relativistic phenomena:
>
> I really love the various graphene connotations.
>
> However, the proposed logo needs to be much simpler and more abstract.
> Logos that combine text and symbols rarely work well.

> Maybe just something like one of the attached graphics (only redone by someone
> with actual graphical design skills ;-)?
>
>

> > The slogan under the suggested logo is an attempt to update the
> > venerable "Perl [5] is the duck tape of the web" slogan to "Rakudo
> > (Perl 6 on Parrot VM) is the braintricity of the web".
>
> Not so keen on "braintricity"; though it does lead to other ideas.
> For example, perhaps we could update:
>
> Perl 5 is the duct tape of the internet
>
> to:
>
> Perl 6 is the neurotransmitter of the semantic web
>
> ;-)
>
> Damian

[Patrick R. Michaud]

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:24:47AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> I want something
> with gut appeal on the order of Tux. In particular I want a logo
> for Perl 6 that is:
>
> Fun
> Cool
> Cute
> Named
> Lively
> Punable

> [...]

+2 to this approach.

Pm

[Conrad Schneiker]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Conrad Schneiker [mailto:Conrad.S...@GMail.com]

> Here's my latest suggestion:
>
> http://www.athenalab.com/Rakudo_logo_2.htm
>
> It combines Damian Conway's suggestions (please see below)
> and Ross Kendall's suggestions at
> (http://www.rakudo.org/some-rakudo-logo-ideas).
>
> For a smaller sized Rakudo logo,
> just remove the text between the proposed Perl 6 logo
> and the Parrot logo.
>
> The proposed Perl 6 logo is a coronene molecule
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronene).
>
> PS: Suggested {Perl6, Parrot, Parrot languages, and CXAN}
> ecosystem slogan: "brainware of the semantic web".

Forgot to mention that (per Larry's suggestions)
you could also regard the Perl 6 logo as a
stylized flower, and you could round the
outer corners a bit to soften the logo.

[Conrad Schneiker]

> From: Guy Hulbert [mailto:gwhu...@eol.ca]

> On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 11:38 -0700, Conrad Schneiker wrote:
> > Here's my latest suggestion:
> >
> > http://www.athenalab.com/Rakudo_logo_2.htm
> >
> > It combines Damian Conway's suggestions (please see below)
> > and Ross Kendall's suggestions at
> > (http://www.rakudo.org/some-rakudo-logo-ideas).
> >
> > For a smaller sized Rakudo logo,
> > just remove the text between the proposed Perl 6 logo
> > and the Parrot logo.
>

> For the small logo, you could super-impose the Parrot on top of the
> molecule ... and for pugs:
> http://www.bnpositive.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/starwars-pugs.jpg

That's awful!

And outrageously hilarious.

The Yoda image + molecule (aka "hexa-flower") gets my vote for Pugs
(although it's not my decision to make).

[James Fuller]

creating a logo by committee is probably the worst way to design such
things ... perl6 logo will be seen in the context of other more
professionally designed logos and like it or not using the basics of
modern branding and marketing will result in something that is more
recognizable .... no matter how much we may despise these kind of
techniques realize that commercial entities (which compete in some way
directly with perl6) will spendmillions on such activities and perl6
should consider at a minimum professional execution of a design.

Is there any sponsorship money to spend on a very good graphic
designer to create something based on a small list of requirements as
to what meaning it should convey ?

Of course the logo should represent the community fundamentally, but I
find all of the suggestions little to do with addressing needs of a
logo versus needs of what I would call more of a 'club' badge.

I mention these concerns because I would like perl6 to be adopted to
as wide a developer audience as possible.

my 2p, Jim Fuller

[Ruud H.G. van Tol]

Larry Wall wrote:

> And in fact, the >>ö<< form looks more like a Hyper Attack Butterfly
> that is about to bite your face off... :)

Her topmodel looks very hexagonal.

|_|
/ \
-/ \-
| |
-\ /-
\-/
| |

--
Ruud

[James Fuller]

to further comment, I would never believe a logo actually influences
which programming languages one chooses to develop in ... but I would
argue that a logo needs to convey the right 'messages' to those who
pay for software projects ... as with any logo; my point is to
identify these messages prior to instantiation e.g. graphic design ...
though doing both ain't bad either.

here is a stab at some simple messages.

for developers: inclusive, easy to use, fast, powerful, linguistic
based, DIY, all computing paradigms allowed (func, proc, oo, etc),
fun, subversive

for wider audience: robust, trusted, straightforward, safe, supported

colors evoke meaning, shapes/animals, etc do as well ...

thats enough from the 'marketing corner' ... back to programming.

cheers, Jim Fuller

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Guy Hulbert <gwhu...@eol.ca> wrote:

> On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 21:10 +0100, James Fuller wrote:
>> creating a logo by committee is probably the worst way to design such
>> things ... perl6 logo will be seen in the context of other more
>> professionally designed logos and like it or not using the basics of
>

> I hate the java stuff (professional).  I don't think much of the debian
> stuff either (amateur).  Some of the things suggested here have been
> pretty good.
>
> [snip]

>> Is there any sponsorship money to spend on a very good graphic
>> designer to create something based on a small list of requirements as
>> to what meaning it should convey ?
>

> How was the parrot logo created ??  I saw a suggestion here that it is
> professionally designed but that wasn't confirmed.  It looks good enough
> to me regardless.
>
> I don't see a problem with a long list ...

>
>>
>> Of course the logo should represent the community fundamentally, but I
>> find all of the suggestions little to do with addressing needs of a
>> logo versus needs of what I would call more of a 'club' badge.
>

> ... I see the suggestions here as necessary input.

>
>>
>> I mention these concerns because I would like perl6 to be adopted to
>> as wide a developer audience as possible.
>

> I don't think the logo will make much difference.
>
> I don't particularly care much about *what* the logo is or *how* it is
> created.  I've only been offering comments as feedback to the people who
> are actually working on it.  Beauty is better than not.
>
>>
>> my 2p, Jim Fuller
>>
> [snip]
>
> --
> --gh
>
>
>

[Jason Switzer]

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:10 PM, James Fuller
<james.fu...@gmail.com>wrote:

> Is there any sponsorship money to spend on a very good graphic
> designer to create something based on a small list of requirements as
> to what meaning it should convey ?
>

I would agree; have a professional do it and we'll probably get better
results.

> Of course the logo should represent the community fundamentally, but I
> find all of the suggestions little to do with addressing needs of a
> logo versus needs of what I would call more of a 'club' badge.

Having said that here's my idea:

Basically, the perl community has largely adopted TIMTOWTDI as a philosophy
(as well as DWIM, but that's harder to model). For that, a cluster of arrows
in different directions seems fitting:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yy_uiqKCf0Q/RcEfrHZ_0hI/AAAAAAAAAB8/Mk1xayjGaSQ/s1600-h/arrows3.jpg
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1060296
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/659267

I personally like the idea of the last one (retains geek cred).

[warning: light-hearted humor ahead]
There's also the notion that perl6's scope has creeped to accommodate a
large enough set of ideas. Seems like an appropriate logo:

http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&q=kitchen+sink

-Jason "s1n" Switzer

[Timothy S. Nelson]

Firstly, I'd like to speak in favour of the idea of designing a logo
for Perl6, and then creating a Rakudo logo based on the Perl6 logo and the
Parrot logo. From here on, I'll be addressing the Perl6 logo.

On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Larry Wall wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:49:42AM -0700, Jon Lang wrote:
> : 2009/3/24 Larry Wall <la...@wall.org>:
> : > http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf

I vote for this at the moment, but I'd still like to see other
proposals now that we have some more direction.

> Not picking on you in particular, but I think there's a tendency to
> go way too abstract in most of these proposals. I want something
> with gut appeal on the order of Tux. In particular I want a logo
> for Perl 6 that is:
>
> Fun
> Cool
> Cute
> Named
> Lively
> Punable
> Personal
> Concrete
> Symmetric
> Asymmetric
> Attractive
> Relational
> Metamorphic
> Decolorizable
> Shrinkable to textual icon
> Shrinkable to graphical icon

These criteria seem to eliminate all of the other existing logo
proposals. However, some of them could be redesigned to fit these criteria.
I'd like to ask, though, that all future logos include both the text and the
graphical version.

> In addition, you can extend just about anything by attaching "P6"
> wings to it. I also take it as a given that we want to discourage
> misogyny in our community. You of the masculine persuasion should
> consider it an opportunity to show off your sensitive side. :)

In spite of what you said about the butterfly being enormous, I'd like
to suggest that one advantage of having a butterfly is that we could
believably have it sitting on top of the Parrot (enormous parrot too?).

In response to those asking for a professional designer, I'd like to
see us go around a few more times here, and see if we can't come up with at
least a good concept that could hopefully be used/stylised by a real graphic
designer, so that we might end up with something like the Parrot logo.

Now that Larry's provided some criteria, let round 2 of the design
process begin!

[Eirik Berg Hanssen]

jason switzer <jswi...@gmail.com> writes:

> [warning: light-hearted humor ahead]
> There's also the notion that perl6's scope has creeped to accommodate a
> large enough set of ideas. Seems like an appropriate logo:
>
> http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&q=kitchen+sink

I kinda liked that one – back when Emacs did it:

http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&q=%22emacs+kitchen+sink+icon%22&btnG=Search+Images

;-)

Eirik
--
O misbegotten pile of festering aardvark's fewmets! O vile unwashed ill-doer!
I blast you with the curse of the mad witch of Wickham! May every boychild
born to you , and to your sons, and to your sons' sons, even unto the Seventh
Generation, be born .... male! (well I told you she was mad!).

[tho...@sandlass.de]

On Tuesday, 24. March 2009 05:47:12 Darren Duncan wrote:
> If you're going for sciencey or mathey illustrations, then I think its
> important to include something that speaks quantum physics in there, since
> quantum superpositions aka Junctions are one of the big central user
> features that Perl 6 provides which is relatively new to languages in
> general.

The concept of superimposed shapes is very well done in the Trisquirclehedron.
See http://lucacardelli.name/Topics/TheoryOfObjects/ObjectSubject.html

Regards, TSa.
--
"The unavoidable price of reliability is simplicity" -- C.A.R. Hoare
"Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it." -- A.J. Perlis
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... = -1/12 -- Srinivasa Ramanujan

[Darren Duncan]

Larry Wall wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:49:42AM -0700, Jon Lang wrote:
> : 2009/3/24 Larry Wall <la...@wall.org>:
> : > http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf
>

> Not picking on you in particular, but I think there's a tendency to
> go way too abstract in most of these proposals. I want something
> with gut appeal on the order of Tux.

<snip>
> Hence, Camelia.

I'm quite happy with Camelia being the basis for the logo for the Perl 6
language itself.

Larry Wall wrote:
> If you guys want versions of Camelia in her "attack"
> mode, that's okay too. :)
>

> And in fact, the >>ö<< form looks more like a Hyper Attack Butterfly
> that is about to bite your face off... :)

Please don't. I think the happy version is much better than any angry or
violent version. We want the logo to evoke happiness after all.

-- Darren Duncan