svn
William Coleda
I'd like to work on a patch to move all the perl* pmcs into dynclasses, which would involve quite a bit of file moving, and I'll happily wait for svn if we're going that way, since it'll be smoother.
Matt Fowles
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 19:19:07 -0500, William Coleda <wi...@coleda.com> wrote:
> Is there a plan at any point to move to an svn repository from cvs?
>
> I'd like to work on a patch to move all the perl* pmcs into dynclasses, which would involve quite a bit of file moving, and I'll happily wait for svn if we're going that way, since it'll be smoother.
>
While I personally like the idea, I think it is unlikely given how
much slower svn is on sizable repositories. Of course I have not
tried it recently, so maybe that has changed...
All that being said, I am in absolutely no position of authority about this...
Matt
--
"Computer Science is merely the post-Turing Decline of Formal Systems Theory."
-???
Robert Spier
> much slower svn is on sizable repositories. Of course I have not
> tried it recently, so maybe that has changed...
> All that being said, I am in absolutely no position of authority about this...
This is, and always has been, (since 1.0 at least), a myth.
We have always been at war with ....
Apache has moved most of their projects to SVN. It's probably ready.
-R
Michael G Schwern
> While I personally like the idea, I think it is unlikely given how
> much slower svn is on sizable repositories. Of course I have not
> tried it recently, so maybe that has changed...
If you wish to try out a recent Subversion on some sizable source
there's a mirror of the maint and bleadperl Perforce repositories here.
http://svn.clkao.org/svnweb/perl
You can pull them out using
svn://svn.clkao.org/perl
Subversion has improved a lot. I'm using it now. If you do try it I
recommend going straight to 1.1.1 and using fsfs based repositories.
Keep in mind that SVN is slower on checkouts than CVS. However diff is
a purely local operation. And if you're using something like SVK network
traffic isn't much of an issue after all after the initial mirror.
--
Michael G Schwern sch...@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Now we come to that part of the email you've all been waiting for--the end.
Phil Frost
If you are planning on switching revision control systems, I suggest
something other than svn. There are a number of other systems available
to the free software developer which offer serious advantages which
might not be aparent to those who have not experienced them. Among them
are arch, darcs, and monotone. I have used arch extensively, and I found
it to be a powerfull tool but with a somewhat poorly designed interface.
I have now been using darcs for several weeks and found it to be
extremely well designed, but I've not used it long enough to endorse it
fully. Monotone I have not used but it offers many of the same
advantages.
Bernhard Schmalhofer
> I'd like to work on a patch to move all the perl* pmcs into dynclasses,
> which would involve quite a bit of file moving,
Hi,
I'm currently working on moving the implementation of the PerlHash PMC
into a Hash PMC. The plan is to let PerlHash be an extension of Hash.
Currently there are still some problems with regard to dumping and
freezing. When these problems are resolved, I'll try to switch the
Parrot core to using the Hash PMC internally.
I'll try to provide a patch this weekend or next week.
CU, Bernhard
--
**************************************************
Dipl.-Physiker Bernhard Schmalhofer
Senior Developer
Biomax Informatics AG
Lochhamer Str. 11
82152 Martinsried, Germany
Tel: +49 89 895574-839
Fax: +49 89 895574-825
eMail: Bernhard.S...@biomax.com
Website: www.biomax.com
**************************************************
Michael G Schwern
> On Wed, Dec 08, 2004 at 07:19:07PM -0500, William Coleda wrote:
> > Is there a plan at any point to move to an svn repository from cvs?
> >
> > I'd like to work on a patch to move all the perl* pmcs into dynclasses,
> > which would involve quite a bit of file moving, and I'll happily wait for
> > svn if we're going that way, since it'll be smoother.
>
> If you are planning on switching revision control systems, I suggest
> something other than svn. There are a number of other systems available
> to the free software developer which offer serious advantages which
> might not be aparent to those who have not experienced them. Among them
> are arch, darcs, and monotone.
Arch is out. Its Win32 support is crap.
http://wiki.gnuarch.org/moin.cgi/Native_20WIN32_20Support
monotone is out. Its too unstable. They just made an incompatible change
requiring *lossy* migration.
http://www.venge.net/monotone/README.changesets
This leaves just Darcs. I would eshew Darcs for a large, Open project for
these reasons.
* Its immature. What happens if we hit a bug and wedge the repository or
worse, corrupt it? What happens if they introduce an incompatible change
as monotone did?
* We don't have any Darcs experts to solve the hard problems.
* The darcs manual proudly proclaims "Darcs is refreshingly different
from CVS." "Because of the different models used by cvs and darcs, it is
difficult to provide a complete equivalence between cvs and darcs." Parrot
has a lot of CVS users. They do not want "refreshingly different".
However, this does not mean distributed version control is out. There is
an option. SVK. Its distributed version control WITHOUT everybody having
to learn and run SVK. SVK is a *client* of a Subversion (or CVS or Perforce)
repository. This means Parrot can switch to Subversion and those that want
to play with distributed version control can do so without everybody else
having to drink their brand of Kool-Aid.
For reference, here's the gauntlet I'd make any new revision control system
for Parrot run through.
1) Are they easily available on all the platforms Parrot is? Various
Unixen, OS X, Windows. Is there any hope for a VMS port?
2) Can the command set and workflow be made similar to CVS? You're going
to have enough trouble convincing people to leave the warm, familiar,
comforting, if slightly demented, embrace of CVS that they
have known for years. Its best if the new system works as much like CVS
as possible.
3) Do we need distributed version control? Can this be gotten without
having to drink their brand of Kool-Aid, such as by individuals using SVK
over a Subversion repository?
4) Are these systems mature enough that they're not going to fall apart
under a large repository? Or that we don't have to worry about hitting a
bug which corrupts the repository or gets it into an inconsistent state?
Or that they'll introduce an incompatible change?
5) Do we have any experts with these new version control systems? Someone
who knows how to solve the hairy problems.
6) Can we convert the existing CVS repository to it without losing
revision histories?
7) Can we supply a read-only CVS mirror of the repository?
8) What's the documentation like? Is there a well-written, comprehensive
tutorial? Can I get going in under an hour?
--
Michael G Schwern sch...@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Home of da bomb
Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon
> 1) Are they easily available on all the platforms Parrot is? Various
> Unixen, OS X, Windows. Is there any hope for a VMS port?
Can we add "are there GUIs for Windows, OS X, and other platforms with
wimpy users?" ;^)
--
Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon <br...@brentdax.com>
Perl and Parrot hacker
"I might be an idiot, but not a stupid one."
--c.l.p.misc (name omitted to protect the foolish)
Michael G Schwern
> Michael G Schwern <sch...@pobox.com> wrote:
> > 1) Are they easily available on all the platforms Parrot is? Various
> > Unixen, OS X, Windows. Is there any hope for a VMS port?
>
> Can we add "are there GUIs for Windows, OS X, and other platforms with
> wimpy users?" ;^)
A) Wimpy users don't hack Parrot and a lack of a GUI for the VC is not
going to be what stops them.
B) If there's not a GUI now there's nothing stopping someone from writing
a GUI tomorrow.
So no, I would not consider a GUI to be important.
--
Michael G Schwern sch...@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
7. It is always something
-- RFC 1925
Calin A. Culianu
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 09, 2004 at 04:35:26PM -0800, Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon wrote:
>> Michael G Schwern <sch...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> 1) Are they easily available on all the platforms Parrot is? Various
>>> Unixen, OS X, Windows. Is there any hope for a VMS port?
>>
>> Can we add "are there GUIs for Windows, OS X, and other platforms with
>> wimpy users?" ;^)
>
> A) Wimpy users don't hack Parrot and a lack of a GUI for the VC is not
> going to be what stops them.
>
> B) If there's not a GUI now there's nothing stopping someone from writing
> a GUI tomorrow.
>
> So no, I would not consider a GUI to be important.
I chuckled as I read this. I love the term wimpy users. Also, if I may,
there are various GUIs for svn. One of them is even written in java so
theoretically it should run everywhere.
http://jsvn.alternatecomputing.com/
I haven't used that one. The one I used was written for Unix using Qt. I
forgot what it was called.. but this jsvn seems pretty cool.
My two cents.
-Calin