News from Debrett's 2011-- Earls

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Darnley-- Full names of 2nd and 3rd sons of the ha, Lord Clifton of
Rathmore: Edward Luke Forsyth and Alexander Ivo Thomas

Denbigh & Desmond-- A second son for the Earl: Orlando Gregory Danger
(yes, Danger) b. 2009

Eldon-- The ha, Viscount Encombe, has an older son, John Alexander
Columba (b. 1984) from a previous relationship.

Brooke

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Gainsborough-- Full name of ony son of the ha, Viscount Campden, is
Edward Patrick Anthony

Glasgow-- Ha's title is "Viscount Kelburn". Previous edition had it
as "Viscount of Kelburn"

Howe-- Full name of ha, Viscount Curzon, is Thomas Edward Penn

Huntington-- Current earl is now the 17th Earl (rather than the 16th)

Brooke

[marquess]

Any news on the earls of Westmeath, also have there been any more
males born into the collaterals of the earldom of Howe?

[S. Jones]

Thank you Brooke for all these updates. As I haven't yet bought my own
copy of Debretts, these updates are most helpful. What I would like to
know is the situation in the earldoms of Orkney and Rothes. Any new
heirs there? Women can succeed to both of these titles, but
unbelievably many heirs are shown as childless in the 2008 Debretts.

SJ

[marquess]

I think that Debretts lacks some info re Orkney, as I recall ready
that the earl had many grandchildren in some article about the earl's
academic career, I posted here some time ago.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

I took a quick look.

Howe and Westmeath show no further heirs born.

The Orkney collaterals do show some births in recent years, primarily
girls.
There is the birth of a son, however, to Jason Bostick whose father is
in remainder. (The father--Christopher--descends from a late female
who had been in remainder.) That's good news.

Rothes-- No births in the immediate family but the hp (brother of the
Earl) wed for a 2nd time in 2008.

If I come across anything else, I will post it.

Brooke

> > > > Brooke- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Lincoln-- Major news. The hp, brother of the current Earl, changed
his name in 1996, Instead of William Roy Fiennes-Clinton, he is now
William James HOWSON. He also has a son, b. 2004 named Jordan Ryder.

Lindsey and Abingdon-- 2nd son of the ha, Lord Norreys was born in
1997.

Brooke

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Liverpool-- Elder son (Arthur) of the brother (Hon. Ralph) of the ha
is shown with a birth year of 2006. (As it stands now, he is in
direct line to the title after his uncle and father.)

Brooke

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[S. Jones]

Thank you for these updates! Marquess, I remember the link you posted.
The link was indeed very informative, but nevertheless fell short of
telling any names or years of birth. I merely hoped the Debretts would
this time be better up to date.

SJ

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Plymouth-- Full names of Hon. David Windsor-Clive (3rd son of the
Earl)'s 2 sons are James Other and Alexander Miles

Portarlington-- Full name of only son of Viscount Carlow (ha) is Henry
Charles Yuill Seymour

Rosse-- Full name of only son of Lord Oxmantown (ha) is William Yufan
Charles

Brooke

[Jonathan]

> Rosse-- Full name of only son of Lord Oxmantown (ha) is William Yufan
> Charles

Seeing that name, and being something of a sinophile myself, I
wondered whether the Earldom of Rosse will be the first hereditary
peerage to be held by someone of Chinese blood (there have been at
least three life peers)?

[marquess]

Not to detract from the function of this thread, but the earldom of
Cromer will eventually be inherited by someone of Chinese blood.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Selborne-- The ha, Viscount Wolmer, has 2 sons: Alexander David Robert
(b. 2002) and Thomas James (b. 2004)

Stradbroke-- The second son of the Earl, Hon. Wesley, has a son.
However, Debrett's does not include any information on whether or not
he is married so we don't know if the youngster is in remainder.

Swinton-- The ha, Baron Masham, is shown as married but with no
children (Michael had previously posted that Baron Masham has 2
children including 1 son).

Temple of Stowe-- The ha, Lord Langton, has a son (at least I think
it's a boy) named Rowan Caradoc TEMPLE, b. 1987. The wedding came 21
years later so even if he is a boy, he is not in remainder.

Verulam-- 2nd son of the current Earl (Hon. Hugo) had a son, Merlin
Charles, b. 2010

Wemyss & March-- Ha is now known as Lord Elcho. He was previously
Lord Neidpath

That's it for the Earls!

Brooke

[Nick Kingsley]

Re Wemyss & March. The traditional title for the ha in this family is Lord
Elcho; but two of the holders of this title in the 20th century died before
inheriting the Earldom, including the present Earl's elder brother. So when
the present Earl became ha he preferred to use another subsidiary title,
Lord Neidpath, as his courtesy title.

Nick Kingsley

Brooke

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[marquess]

Have you they ever used the viscountcy?

On Jan 10, 2:56 pm, "Nick Kingsley" <nick.kings...@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:

> Re Wemyss & March.  The traditional title for the ha in this family is Lord
> Elcho; but two of the holders of this title in the 20th century died before
> inheriting the Earldom, including the present Earl's elder brother.  So when
> the present Earl became ha he preferred to use another subsidiary title,
> Lord Neidpath, as his courtesy title.
>
> Nick Kingsley
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: peerag...@googlegroups.com [mailto:peerag...@googlegroups.com]
>

> On Behalf Of b...@yahoo.com

[Richard R]

The family appear never to have used the viscountcy of Peebles as a
courtesy style, preferring always in the past to use the Elcho title,
despite the tragic history, especially the heirs of the 2nd earl.

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/peerage-news?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

[Turenne]

On 10 Jan, 17:08, Richard R <r_rut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The family appear never to have used the viscountcy of Peebles as a
> courtesy style, preferring always in the past to use the Elcho title,
> despite the tragic history, especially the heirs of the 2nd earl.
>

How did the current earl come to refer to himself as Lord Neidpath? My
understanding was that the correct appellation would be Lord Douglas
of Neidpath.

What happened to the heirs of the 2nd earl?

Richard L

[Richard R]

I suppose plain 'Lord Douglas' would have been confusing and 'Lord D
of N' too much for a mere courtesy lord.

The 2nd Earl of Wemyss succ to the title in 1649 and died in 1679,
when his dau succeeded to the title. Between those dates he had no
fewer than 4 sons who lived and died as Lord Elcho in their capacity
as heir apparent to their father.

[Turenne]

On 10 Jan, 22:08, Richard R <r_rut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I suppose plain 'Lord Douglas' would have been confusing and 'Lord D
> of N' too much for a mere courtesy lord.
>
> The 2nd Earl of Wemyss succ to the title in 1649 and died in 1679,
> when his dau succeeded to the title. Between those dates he had no
> fewer than 4 sons who lived and died as Lord Elcho in their capacity
> as heir apparent to their father.
>

Aaaah. Thanks very much...

RL