News from Debrett's 2011-- Marquesses, Dukes and Royal Dukes

[bx...@yahoo.com]

MARQUESSES

Abergavenny-- Guy Nevill (son of David, hp to the Earldom of
Abergavenny), has a son George David Roland, b. 2010

Cholmondeley-- Full names of the Marquess' twin sons:
Alexander Hugh George (Earl of Rocksavage) and Oliver Timothy George

Conyngham-- Full name of Viscount Slane, son of the ha Earl of Mount
Charles is Rory Nicholas Burton

Huntly-- Ha is known as Lord Strathavon

Salisbury-- Lord James Gascoyne-Cecil , younger brother of the ha
Viscount Cranborne (who remains unmarried) has a son, Thomas Richard
James (b. 2009)

DUKES

Beaufort-- Full names of the 2 sons of the ha Marquess of Worcester:
Henry Robert Fitzroy (Earl of Glamorgan) and Alexander Lorne

Grafton-- The son of the late Earl of Euston (1947-2009) is still
known as Viscount Ipswich. (He has not assumed his father's courtesy
title.)

Norfolk-- Precedence of the dukedom changed to 1397

ROYAL DUKE

Kent-- As I posted earlier, 2nd son of Lord Nicholas Windsor is named
Leopold Ernest Augustus Guelph

That's it!

Brooke

[Turenne]

Well done!

RL

[marquess]

Yes thank you for that info!

[Dan Willis]

Brooke,

Would you please look at one entry for me?

Under the Duke of St. Albans. Is Lord John Beauclerk (b.1950) still
listed as the father of twins Mayasuni & Gianni (*1978)?

Thank you.

[ccz...@googlemail.com]

On Jan 9, 10:04 pm, "b...@yahoo.com" <b...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> DUKES

> Norfolk-- Precedence of the dukedom changed to 1397

How and when did this happen?

[Richard R]

The twins are still listed in the latest Debrett. Is there any reason
why they shouldn't be listed?

On Jan 11, 9:46 am, "ccz...@googlemail.com" <ccz...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

[Netty]

On Jan 11, 2:57 pm, Richard R <r_rut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The twins are still listed in the latest Debrett. Is there any reason
> why they shouldn't be listed?

As they are both surnamed Heath instead of Beauclerk. Mayasuni married
Archduke Philip of Austria in 2006. Gianni is married to Gabriella
Cacciola.

[Turenne]

ccz wrote:

> DUKES
> Norfolk-- Precedence of the dukedom changed to 1397

>How and when did this happen?

It seems a strange decision. The 1st duke of the first (Mowbray)
creation was made a duke in 1397. The 1st duke of the third (Howard)
creation was made a duke in 1483. I can't understand why precedence
should be set at an earlier date.

RL

[S. Jones]

According to a previous edition of Debretts, the twins were born
before their parents married. Could that be a reason for using their
mother's maiden name?

SJ

[bx...@yahoo.com]

I'm glad the postings seemed to have been enjoyed by all.

Going through this volume made me realize the great job done by
members of this group in finding out so much information from various
sources and letting us all know about it.

Then again, it was exciting to find little nuggets (i.e. the birth of
an heir or an heir to an heir) that we didn't know about. It shows
you not even this group is that perfect!

The only disappointment was in not finding an heir to a title that is
on the verge of extinction. (I still maintain that there have to be
heirs to some of the males that are shown as being 30+ or 40+ and
unmarried so there is hope yet.)

Brooke

> > RL- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Dan Willis]

This is discussion on another forum that there seems to be an
increasing liklihood that Lord John is not the father of the twins,
but only their step-father.

Dan

> > How and when did this happen?- Hide quoted text -

[Richard R]

I agree with SJ that the reason for their use of their mother's
surname is because they were born out of wedlock, so it's possible
(even likely) that Lord John is their father.

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[marquess]

What is the name of that 1950 barony that has a Welsh name? I think
that it was on the verge of extinction and the current peer produced
to heirs in his 50's so there is still hope.

[Turenne]

On 12 Jan, 15:18, marquess <marquessmarqu...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> What is the name of that 1950 barony that has a Welsh name? I think
> that it was on the verge of extinction and the current peer produced
> to heirs in his 50's so there is still hope.
>

Are you thinking of the viscountcy of Tenby?

RL

[marquess]

No the barony of Ogmore, cr 1950 the current peer was born in 37 but
produced two male heirs at the age of 54 and 57, I had long thought
that this barony was going to be extinct with the current generation.

[Dan Willis]

The reason for the discussion is that when the daughter married a
Archduke a few years ago, no mention was made that her father was the
son of a Duke himself. In fact, the father had not been identified in
the engagement or wedding announcements at all.