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zhiyong wu  
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 More options Jun 28, 4:17 am
From: zhiyong wu <wuzhiyong0...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:17:02 +0800
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 4:17 am
Subject: about tree

both file types like png mp3 and networks like ftp http are expressed in the
form of tree, becase it could express paraent and brother relationships
between data chunks or elements.
Is there a best tree to express one file type like png? is it necessary to
express it out? does it exist?


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Michael Eddington  
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 More options Jun 28, 4:27 am
From: Michael Eddington <medding...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 01:27:18 -0700
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 4:27 am
Subject: Re: [Peach] about tree
I'm not sure what you mean by tree but it is true that information in
one chunk could be used by another (re-png).  My recommendation is
always keep it simple.  You don't need to model every exact detail,
just enough to parse and any relations there might be.

For PNG I typically format my pit like this:

<DataModel name="PNG">

  <!-- Header stuff like magic -->

  <!-- Now lets parse the chunks.  Don't know what order or how many
       so create an array of Choice -->
  <Choice name="Chunks" minOccurs="1" maxOccurs="10000">
      <Block name="ChunkHDR">
          <!-- Stuff for HDR -->
      </Block>

      <Block name="ChunkDAT">
           <!-- Stuff for DATA -->
      </Block>

      <!-- And so on -->
  </Choice>
</DataModel>

mike


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zhiyong wu  
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 More options Jun 28, 4:56 am
From: zhiyong wu <wuzhiyong0...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:56:53 +0800
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 4:56 am
Subject: Re: [Peach] Re: about tree

If don't model exactly, there may be too many combinations, for example, in
png.xml, if there are 20 types chuncks, there may be 20! kinds of
combinations if every chunck just appears once in every test case. 201 =
2432902008176640000. It's very large. It's combination explosion. If just
randomly give some test cases, it may miss some vulnerabilities.

I mean tree is a much better model to express the relationships than simple
liner enum. Is there some statics or papers show that tree is a good example
or is there a much better model like graph or other logic constructions to
express it? why?
I am trying to pursuade my teacher that with tree modeling relationships
between data elements is much better than simple liner model. But I can't
prove it *theoretically*. What's more, is there the relative theory in
whitebox testing?

am I boring? mike?
2009/6/28 Michael Eddington <medding...@gmail.com>


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Michael Eddington  
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 More options Jun 28, 5:36 pm
From: Michael Eddington <medding...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:36:23 -0700
Local: Sun, Jun 28 2009 5:36 pm
Subject: Re: [Peach] Re: about tree
Well you would never test every combination.  And the combinations are
not lowered by how you model.  What you want to do is test use cases
of the data, for example use some sample PNG files as test data.  Or
create a single large PNG with all 20 chunks.  Changing the order is
up to the mutators, but not every combination needs to be hit.

If you under stand some interesting relation in the data that is not
in the model then a custom mutator might be interesting.  For example
Height vs. Weight used in other chunks could lead to some interesting
custom modifications for PNG, however would a generic way of modeling
that make those modifications automatic?  Probably not.

Anyways, I'm still not clear on exactly what you would model, perhaps
you should create an example "tree" graph based on PNG.

mike


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