Wandering Thoughts
nitebird
<HTML>
Zoltan The Magnificent wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>I find myself being increasingly quiet on this group.</BLOCKQUOTE>
It's not only you, Jeff. I, too, have been feeling the same lately
and losing interest in posting -- leaving it more to the "youngun's" in
the group.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>I feel myself to be more and more irrelevant to the
day-to-day nurturing of what goes on here. It's odd, I can't actually point
to anything that makes me believe this.</BLOCKQUOTE>
I think mine own point of realization was the last big flame war, and my
realizing that I don't really care about the opinions of many others here.
My opinion of myself matters a whole lot more to me than anyone else's.
I know me better, and I know my own character, and I know my values and
standards. Sometimes, what others in the group see and post is not
accurate, but it doesn't stop it from being hurtful all the same.
<BR>
<BR>Maybe I'm just trying to figure it out myself here in words.
But, I've never cared for "debating" as some of you prefer to call it.
And, when a certain few, start looking for things to pick out of the messages
posted by your brothers and sisters here in this group with the intention
of knocking them or just upsetting them in the name of discussion or "debating"
-- it's then when I know I've had enough. (You are all entitled to
your own opinions, yes, but there should be some place to draw the line.)
That is the point where I, personally, lose interest in reading and posting
to the group. I still **VERY** much enjoy getting together with *everyone*
in our *real life* fun netogethers. But, the postings to this group
seem to take on a life and character all their own. I have grown
weary of that character. And, I, for one, have lately been pretty
discontented with the group's postings life -- maybe 'cause I've got a
real one of my own.
<P>I don't say this to knock anyone or start another flame war. This
is only ONE person's opinion, and is quite incidental in the long run.
I'm just trying to put some words to what I feel a number of us *might*
be feeling lately.
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>I guess it's like real life, as opposed to what we
post - a malaise slowly rises over
<BR>time, and we never really notice how it begins to color our perceptions,
our
<BR>outlook on life - one day we simply wake up and notice that things
are
<BR>different.</BLOCKQUOTE>
True, Jeff. That is exactly how I also began to notice it.
<P>I stayed away from reading the group for a bit. Then, I noticed
I didn't even miss it, didn't even care what was being said about what
or whom. The only thing I wanted to know about was when we're all
getting together again and what fun we're going to have together.
I miss the real life people here. I guess, for me, at this point,
I'm more interested in *being* with my friends here instead of merely in
posting messages to them in this VERY public forum of cyberspace.
It's MUCH more enjoyable for me, personally, to see all of you in-person
and share "real life" time rather than the fantasy of our cyber world.
<P>Perhaps, I too, am feeling too reflective tonight.
<BR>Is it a full moon or something?
<P>Madeline
<BR>
<BR> </HTML>
Zoltan The Magnificent
I find myself being increasingly quiet on this group. I feel myself to be=
more
and more irrelevant to the day-to-day nurturing of what goes on here. =
It's
odd, I can't actually point to anything that makes me believe this. I =
guess
it's like real life, as opposed to what we post - a malaise slowly rises =
over
time, and we never really notice how it begins to color our perceptions, =
our
outlook on life - one day we simply wake up and notice that things are
When I stop to think about it, there are no reasons. I'm not responding =
to
Tracy doing "X", or Kris doing "Y" or Jim doing "Z". I can't even blame =
Auntie
Mmm and a plague of slugs (a lesser death that I've suffered before.).
Maybe this is just _my_ holiday angst jumping up, and it doesn't care if =
angst
strikes in September, or October, or waits for the day before =
Thanksgiving.
I know one thing for damn sure - I'm driving Dawn NUTS today. For some =
reason,
today is Pink Floyd day, a band Dawn despises (for good reason!), but one=
that
I love. Luckily, my office is upstairs and she doesn't have to hear it -
except when I crank it.
Still, I think I'll share it with you. I can only do the words, you'll =
have to
supply the music. Somewhat dated, I know. Let me know what you think.
So...
So you think you can tell
Heaven from Hell?
Blue skies from pain?
Can you tell a green field
from a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?
Did they get you to trade
your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees,
hot air for a cool breeze,
cold comfort for change?
Did you exchange
a walk-on part in the war
for a lead role in a cage?
How I wish,
how I wish you were here.
We're just two lost souls
swimming in a fish bowl,
year after year.
Running over the same old ground
what have we found?
The same old fears.
Wish you were here.
Zoltan The Thoughtful
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"But what would you DO with a brain if you had one?"
Dorothy's question of the Scarecrow in _The Wonderful Wizard Of Oz_
Kris Hasson
In article <347b0d42...@news.teleport.com>, jhen...@teleport.com (Zoltan The Magnificent) wrote:
>I find myself being increasingly quiet on this group.
[snip]
Hey, Zoltan, I do miss you. But I'm wouldn't even know how to begin the
task of forcing you to post if you aren't interested.
>I know one thing for damn sure - I'm driving Dawn NUTS today. For some =
>reason, today is Pink Floyd day,
Well, try singing her this instead. It's by Spider Robinson. (Gosh, I
hope this falls under fair use....)
I wanna tell you how I feel, Love,
But it will not come as news.
I got no secrets to reveal, Love,
But I'm gonna say it anyway
'Cause I'm alone and you're away
I haven't got a blessed thing to lose.
So here goes:
Water ain't dry
The sky goes up high
And a booger makes a mighty poor glue
You can't hurt cats
Bacteria don't wear hats
and I love you.
Sugar ain't sour
And it's damp in the shower
Murder's not a nice thing to do
Trees got wood
And making love is pretty good
and I love you.
Well I'm belaboring the obvious
By now you've noticed all those good times
This is as practical an exercise
as taping 20 cents to my transmission
so that anytime I want to I can shift my paradigm
But god knows
Goats don't vote
Iron don't float
And a hippie don't turn down booze
Dog bites man
Teacher don't understand
And I love you
Sickness sucks
It's nice to have bucks
The player on 1st base is named Who
Kids grow up
Most fellows pee standing up
And I love you.
I guess I didn't need to say it.
It's just this message that my heart sends.
And I kinda like the way it's
More redundant than was absolutely necessary
According to the Department of Redundancy Department
(Bureau of Unnecessary Repetition and Pointless Redundancy)
I must close:
Money is nice
You can't fry ice
And the money will always be due
Bullshit stinks
and no one outsits the Sphinx
and I love you
Now living ain't bad
God knows, dying is sad
Little we know is true
Oh, but that's just karma
Baby you can bet the farm on this
I do love you.
--
Kris (has...@teleport.com)
Zoltan The Magnificent
hasson@.teleport.com (Kris Hasson) wrote:
> Zoltan The Magnificent wrote:
>>I find myself being increasingly quiet on this group.=20
>
>[snip]
>
>Hey, Zoltan, I do miss you. But I'm wouldn't even know how to begin the=
=20
>task of forcing you to post if you aren't interested.
Irrelevancy, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
>>I know one thing for damn sure - I'm driving Dawn NUTS today. For some=20
>>reason, today is Pink Floyd day,=20
>
>Well, try singing her this instead. It's by Spider Robinson. (Gosh, I=20
>hope this falls under fair use....)
Spider gave it to all of us to use as needed - and I need it now. OK, so =
this
ain't Callahan's, or even Mary's Place - it'll do, it's close enuff for
Portland, I've always found this place an acceptble substitute for =
Callahan's.
A tad shabby, perhaps, and I'm not sure about the short-hair in the =
corner,
and the drinks are _way_ more than 50 cents, and hurling the glass into =
the
fireplace just gets me tossed out - but I can still make a toast!
"To Dawn - even when I don't want to hang out with her ex-boyfriend!"
<gulp>
<CRASH!>
Congratulations Kris, you've just paid forward some old debt, you can
officially cross some old stain off your soul. Thank you, I needed this. =
And
you did it without prying, saving Fast Eddie a trip away from the piano -=
a
difficult thing to do in real life.
I'll leave the song below, because it's a good one and also because the =
only
thing I have to replace it with is my version of "Rawhide" !!
Now, if I could just find someone dumb enough to say "the drinks are on
me"....
So here goes:
And I kinda like the way it's=20
More redundant than was absolutely necessary=20
According to the Department of Redundancy Department
(Bureau of Unnecessary Repetition and Pointless Redundancy)
I must close:
Money is nice
You can't fry ice
And the money will always be due
Bullshit stinks
and no one outsits the Sphinx
and I love you
Now living ain't bad
God knows, dying is sad
Little we know is true
Oh, but that's just karma
Baby you can bet the farm on this
I do love you.
Zoltan Who Can't Sing, But Would Sing This If He Could
tst...@tcmail.frco.com
> I know one thing for damn sure - I'm driving Dawn NUTS today. For some =
> reason,
> today is Pink Floyd day, a band Dawn despises (for good reason!), but one=
> that I love.
What? Pink Floyd is good stuff. It only sucks by bad associations.
Sure, those fish-fornicating, frog-faced, furry freak brothers in the
smoking area shoved it down your throat like castor oil, but I still went
out and bought the albums and played them at home with the headphones.
Still, I think I'll share it with you. I can only do the words, you'll =
> have to
> supply the music. Somewhat dated, I know. Let me know what you think.
> (words to arguably the best Pink Floyd Song of all).
I think your thought processes are in tune and all sytems are go. But I
can see how listening to that hippie, love, waistoid bulldada is making
you complacent. Nice aint it? Sometimes you have to, you know, go with
it. Huh, huh, huh. And besides, driving Dawn crazy makes for more fun
for US, the readers, so toil away at annoying her. Hee hee! Don't tell
Dawn I says that, o.k.? O.K.???
-Tim
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
tst...@tcmail.frco.com
In article <65dpmh$l...@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>,
madelin...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> And, I, for one, have lately been pretty
> discontented with the group's postings life -- maybe 'cause I've got a
> real one of my own.
Ha ha ha! Maddie KNOWS! MADDIE KNOWS HOW IT WORKS!
Yep, seeing someone in the RealWorld makes a big damn difference, kind of
like doing something is better than reading about it. But you forget the
fun of trying out witicisms and story telling, which is actually what I
have found to be the best usage of newsgroups. I probably won't get to
meet ANY of you EVER, so this is the best I can do. Besides, you help
keep my brain alive during an otherwise brain-wasting period of the day.
Of course, when this job ends things will change. But I have begun to
post from home, so I suppose I will continue. Don't worry about taking a
break and losing interest in this thing. Nothing is fun forever when you
do it day after day, unless it's eating, sleeping and breathing. Come
back when you feel like it and avoid the flame wars. Read the people you
enjoy listening to.
> It's MUCH more enjoyable for me, personally, to see all of you in-person
> and share "real life" time rather than the fantasy of our cyber world.
True enough, but until then...
> <P>Perhaps, I too, am feeling too reflective tonight.
Pale, untanned white skin is often quite reflective, but this helps the
search and rescue guys see you in the dark. I'm glad you post anything
that helps me know how you are feeling. Read you later, eh?
-Tim Stich
Kris Hasson
In article <347c75eb...@news.teleport.com>,
>Portland, I've always found this place an acceptble substitute for
I hope you're right. I'd like to find Callahan's, and maybe we can find it
where we are, if there's enough of Callahan's in us.
>and the drinks are _way_ more than 50 cents, and hurling the glass into =
>the fireplace just gets me tossed out - but I can still make a toast!
>
[toast snipped--you hadda be there]
>
><gulp>
><CRASH!>
Nice toast. But we've got to get that angle fixed on the back wall so the
shards stay *in* the fire box.
>Thank you, I needed this.
Always welcome.
>And
>you did it without prying, saving Fast Eddie a trip away from the piano -
> a difficult thing to do in real life.
But the music was too good to stop! And I don't wanna be kicked
out...sometimes I need Callahan's, too. (Hey, I know the rules. Just show me
the staircase and I'll go hang out on the roof for a while. In the rain.)
>Now, if I could just find someone dumb enough to say "the drinks are on
>me"....
But buddy, you just did. Didn't you?
[song snipped...twice through is enough for me]
Kris (has...@teleport.com)
nitebird
<HTML>
tst...@tcmail.frco.com wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Pale, untanned white skin is often quite reflective,
but this helps the
<BR>search and rescue guys see you in the dark. I'm glad you post
anything
<BR>that helps me know how you are feeling. Read you later, eh?</BLOCKQUOTE>
Uh, Tim? How did you know the nitebird's skin is so white????
:-)
<BR>It's my "moon glow".
<P>M
Brock Hannibal
Zoltan The Magnificent wrote:
>
> I find myself being increasingly quiet on this group. I feel myself to be more
> and more irrelevant to the day-to-day nurturing of what goes on here.
Well, maybe when you're not really single then singles topics and issues
aren't as relevant--duh!
>
> When I stop to think about it, there are no reasons. I'm not responding to
> Tracy doing "X", or Kris doing "Y" or Jim doing "Z". I can't even blame Auntie
> Mmm and a plague of slugs (a lesser death that I've suffered before.).
I say blame away. :-)
> I know one thing for damn sure - I'm driving Dawn NUTS today.
So what else is new! :-)
> For some reason,
> today is Pink Floyd day, a band Dawn despises (for good reason!), but one that
> I love.
They're OK but you know that jazz is the only truly American art form.
Check out Coltrane's version of 'Round Midnight if you want to get the
cold chills up and down your spine. Anita O'Day's vocal version is also
really cold. They both had experienced cold turkey a few times, I think.
Hey it's only 3 weeks 'til we party at my place! And just think, if you
get too wasted you get to sleep over.
--
Brock
Dawn O' The Dead
In article <8804742...@dejanews.com>, tst...@tcmail.frco.com wrote:
>In article <347b0d42...@news.teleport.com>,
> jhen...@teleport.com (Zoltan The Magnificent) wrote:
>
>> I know one thing for damn sure - I'm driving Dawn NUTS today. For some =
>> reason,
>> today is Pink Floyd day, a band Dawn despises (for good reason!), but
one=
>> that I love.
>
>What? Pink Floyd is good stuff. It only sucks by bad associations.
>Sure, those fish-fornicating, frog-faced, furry freak brothers in the
>smoking area shoved it down your throat like castor oil, but I still went
>out and bought the albums and played them at home with the headphones.
Good observation. I do despise Pink Floyd purely because of bad
associations. I never cared for 'em much anyway and then I worked with a
banquet chef who HAD to play "The Wall" every day on the kitchen stereo or
else he ... well, I don't know what would have happened, but he acted like
it was something severe. To be fair, he did vary every once in awhile and
play "Dark Side of the Moon". But he had to listen to Pink Floyd EVERY DAY
- sometimes a couple of times. I worked with him for _a year_. If I never
heard Pink Floyd again I would be a very happy girl.
My last act on the day I left that job was to pull the cassette out, go up
to the front line and flip it onto the grill as I walked out.
(BTW, the reason I hate Jethro Tull is because those fish-fornicating,
frog-faced, furry freak brothers in the smoking area shoved in down my
throat during the 17 years I spent working at the Renaissance Faire).
>And besides, driving Dawn crazy makes for more fun
>for US, the readers, so toil away at annoying her. Hee hee! Don't tell
>Dawn I says that, o.k.? O.K.???
Thanks, Tim. As if he needed any encouragement! Yeesh.
Dawn
Finally - http://www.teleport.com/~javagrrl/
tst...@tcmail.frco.com
In article <65f5ko$9nu$1...@news1.teleport.com>,
"Dawn O' The Dead" <java...@teleport.com> wrote:
>
> In article <8804742...@dejanews.com>, tst...@tcmail.frco.com wrote:
>
> >What? Pink Floyd is good stuff. It only sucks by bad associations.
> >Sure, those fish-fornicating, frog-faced, furry freak brothers in the
> >smoking area shoved it down your throat like castor oil, but I still went
> >out and bought the albums and played them at home with the headphones.
>
> Good observation. I do despise Pink Floyd purely because of bad
> associations. I never cared for 'em much anyway and then I worked with a
> banquet chef who HAD to play "The Wall" every day on the kitchen stereo or
> else he ... well, I don't know what would have happened, but he acted like
> it was something severe. To be fair, he did vary every once in awhile and
> play "Dark Side of the Moon". But he had to listen to Pink Floyd EVERY DAY
> - sometimes a couple of times. I worked with him for _a year_. If I never
> heard Pink Floyd again I would be a very happy girl.
>
> My last act on the day I left that job was to pull the cassette out, go up
> to the front line and flip it onto the grill as I walked out.
:-) Ha ha ha! I salute you. Also, I think I would hate it if subjected
to such aural torture. I used to hate Led Zeppelin for the same reason,
but not having heard much of it for years, I can actually enjoy it
sometimes....sometimes. When the moon is blue.
> (BTW, the reason I hate Jethro Tull is because those fish-fornicating,
> frog-faced, furry freak brothers in the smoking area shoved in down my
> throat during the 17 years I spent working at the Renaissance Faire).
You worked at the Renaissance Faire? :-) I actually camped out at the
Texas fairgrounds with some of those people back in high school with my
girlfriend Kim. Now, at last, I understand. Tee hee hee! Drink yer
mead!
> >And besides, driving Dawn crazy makes for more fun
> >for US, the readers, so toil away at annoying her. Hee hee! Don't tell
> >Dawn I says that, o.k.? O.K.???
>
> Thanks, Tim. As if he needed any encouragement! Yeesh.
>
You have slack from me, I cease and desist from the teasing. And
bollocks to you Jeff for telling on me. Is that some sort of rude
English expression or what? Today was really fun here on old
pdx.singles. Catch you later. *Sniff* bless you.
-An Itch in Stime
A!
>Zoltan The Magnificent wrote:
>> For some reason, today is Pink Floyd day, a band Dawn despises
>> (for good reason!), but one that I love.
>
>They're OK but you know that jazz is the only truly American art form.
>Check out Coltrane's version of 'Round Midnight if you want to get the
>cold chills up and down your spine. Anita O'Day's vocal version is also
>really cold. They both had experienced cold turkey a few times, I think.
Yep; there's "blues" jazz, and "rockabilly" jazz, and "folk"
jazz, and "bluegrass" jazz, and "zydeco" jazz, and "ragtime"
jazz, and "r&b" jazz, and "rap" jazz, and "funk" jazz, and
"hip-hop" jazz, and "country/western" jazWHACKWHACKWHACK!
Oops, I guess I deserved that, Brock. Yeah, I did read that
thing about country music being an oxymoron. A friend once had a
bumper sticker that said, "If it ain't Country, it ain't shit!"
He never did like it when I asked if that meant, "If it *is*
country, it *is* shit!"
But, like I was saying...Velvet Elvi', hotrods, graffiti,
chain-saw sculpture, yard-art...
A "you said 'ONLY'" !
Brock Hannibal
A! wrote:
>
>
> Yep; there's "blues" jazz,
> and "rockabilly" jazz,
No.
> and "folk"
> jazz,
No.
>and "bluegrass" jazz,
Hardly.
>and "zydeco" jazz,
Maybe but it has much different roots.
> and "ragtime"
> jazz,
ragtime predates jazz and was composed not improvised, so no.
> and "r&b" jazz,
Sorta, well, kinda like jazz influenced R&B or R&B influenced jazz.
> and "rap" jazz,
Absolutely not.
>
and "funk" jazz,
well fusion WAS kinda funky
>
> "hip-hop" jazz,
No
>and "country/western" jazWHACKWHACKWHACK!
Ma! Get my gun!
>
> Oops, I guess I deserved that, Brock. Yeah, I did read that
> thing about country music being an oxymoron. A friend once had a
> bumper sticker that said, "If it ain't Country, it ain't shit!"
> He never did like it when I asked if that meant, "If it *is*
> country, it *is* shit!
>
> But, like I was saying...Velvet Elvi', hotrods, graffiti,
> chain-saw sculpture, yard-art...
Those may be interesting bits of americana but hardly qualify as art
forms.
> A "you said 'ONLY'" !
I meant it when I said it was the only TRULY american art form. Almost
all others are imports. We export Jazz. It developed here and was
refined here. Folk music is not jazz. Jazz most fundamental tenet is
improvisation. Even composed and arranged jazz allows for improvisation.
Blues and ragtime fed into jazz as did some European music, especially
the Celtic. Basically jazz was a syncretic development between European
band music, ragtime, blues, African and Creole music. It formed sometime
between 1910 and 1920 in New Orleans. From about 1920 to 1954 jazz and
popular music were one and the same.
Sigh, it's like trying to explain electrical fields theory to a software
geek. :-)
--
Brock
jo...@intel.com
Brock Hannibal wrote:
>
> Sigh, it's like trying to explain electrical fields theory to a software
> geek. :-)
>
> --
> Brock
OKAY, BROCK! Dems FIGHTN words!!!!
Joe 'An EE Geek turned to the Dark Side' Cipale
Brock Hannibal
[emailed and posted]
It's really weird that the deeper I get into trying to simulate hardware
the more software I have to write. Jeez, I haven't touched an actual
scope or soldering iron in years! I guess I've met the enemy and they is
us!
--
Brock Hannibal
Hardware Design Engineer
Tektronix, Inc.
Beaverton, Oregon
"Any ideas or opinions expressed here do not necessarily
reflect the ideas or opinions of my employer."
A!
On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 15:01:48 -0800, Brock Hannibal
<bro...@mdhost.cse.tek.com> wrote:
[snip personal categorizations of music]
>>and "country/western" jazWHACKWHACKWHACK!
>
>Ma! Get my gun!
Damn hoodads are poachin' in the perch pond agin.
>> But, like I was saying...Velvet Elvi', hotrods, graffiti,
>> chain-saw sculpture, yard-art...
>
>Those may be interesting bits of americana but hardly qualify as art
>forms.
<ahem> You about to join Mr. Helms' "But is it art" school of
cultural representation? I thought not! I have a book by Ivy
League art scholars documenting and studying graffiti precisely
as art, and my education in art includes kitsch. But, if your
definition of art must include "the majority must *like* it",
there are plenty of other examples...Native American, Shaker,
Chicago stone highrises, skyscrapers, Prairie homes, Grandma
Moses/Charles Wysocki-style painting, etc.
>> A "you said 'ONLY'" !
>
>I meant it when I said it was the only TRULY american art form. Almost
>all others are imports. We export Jazz. It developed here and was
>refined here. Folk music is not jazz. Jazz most fundamental tenet is
>improvisation. Even composed and arranged jazz allows for improvisation.
>Blues and ragtime fed into jazz as did some European music, especially
>the Celtic. Basically jazz was a syncretic development between European
>band music, ragtime, blues, African and Creole music. It formed sometime
>between 1910 and 1920 in New Orleans. From about 1920 to 1954 jazz and
>popular music were one and the same.
Preachin' to the choir, mon! (But I like an informative lecture
anytime, so, Thanks!) Jazz be way 'merican and twice cewl. But
I'd have to question whether improvisation had never existed
before, and also question many of your personal evaluations of
different forms of jazz. I was being facetious in the [snipped]
list of "jazz" this and that, but I've heard some pretty jazzy
folk tunes improvised, like when John McCutcheon played with Tom
Lear. And I'd bet Parliament would include jazz as a basis of
their sound. In your history of jazz, you even trace it's roots
to some European sources. Blues, while generally seperated from
folk, is the expression of American slave labor--which at it's
heart is "folk"--and has roots that have been traced to native
African music.
I know that it is frequently said (for instance, on KMHD) that
jazz is "the only truly American art form", but that kind of
dogma is sure to raise hackles on anyone who takes a slightly
broader view of the world than jingoist jazz lovers. Art is
rarely so kind as to fit into the categories it's critics would
label it, and it never occurs without some precedent (ob.
contrary example: Watts Towers, though I could probably postulate
some precedents for them).
America is a great place, and the "melting pot" has produced many
wonderful results. But to not recognize it's sources and to only
honor one of a myriad of arts seems to belie those riches.
>Sigh, it's like trying to explain electrical fields theory to a software
>geek. :-)
It's like trying to explain splitters to a lumper (-;
A!
Auntie Mmm
> Yep; there's "blues" jazz, and "rockabilly" jazz, and "folk"
> jazz, and "bluegrass" jazz, and "zydeco" jazz, and "ragtime"
> jazz, and "r&b" jazz, and "rap" jazz, and "funk" jazz, and
> "hip-hop" jazz, and "country/western" jazWHACKWHACKWHACK!
What about Dixieland? Man oh man, I do love Dixieland. Most other jazz
leaves me pretty cold. Gimme the blues, baby. And the blues side of jazz
-- Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Etta James, Bessie Smith, I thought
they were all blues. But I could listen to Dixieland all day. And have.
Mammoth Lakes has a Dixieland festival every July with four stages and
music from morn 'til the wee hours.
Auntie Mmm
nitebird
Auntie Mmm wrote:
<snip>
> What about Dixieland? Man oh man, I do love Dixieland.
I love Ragtime Jazz!! I call it my happy music.
Anytime I'm feeling down, I just put on some Scott Joplin
and it lifts me right up. Can't stay down while
listening to that.
M
Brock Hannibal
Auntie Mmm wrote:
>
> In article <3485b5cb...@news.teleport.com>, amu...@teleport.com wrote:
>
> > Yep; there's "blues" jazz, and "rockabilly" jazz, and "folk"
> > jazz, and "bluegrass" jazz, and "zydeco" jazz, and "ragtime"
> > jazz, and "r&b" jazz, and "rap" jazz, and "funk" jazz, and
> > "hip-hop" jazz, and "country/western" jazWHACKWHACKWHACK!
>
The history of recorded jazz begins on February 26, 1917, When the
"Original
Dixieland Jass[sic] Band" recorded "Livery Stable Blues" at Victor
Studios in New York City.
> Most other jazz
> leaves me pretty cold.
Where do you think the term "cool" comes from? (a rhetorical question)
> Gimme the blues, baby.
Around 1914 there was a major impetus for the Europeanization of the
Blues. Up till then the Blues form varied between 13.5 and 15 bars to
suit the lyrics or the mood of the performer. Eventually a 12 bar form
based on the 1-4-5 chord progression (what we know as the Blues today)
became standard. This occurred for three reasons: 1) appealled to
whites, 2) solved problems understanding, playing and notating the Blues
3) established harmonies and a form for band members to work with.
> And the blues side of jazz
> -- Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Etta James, Bessie Smith,
The first two played and sang jazz, which of course incorporated many
elements of the blues. The later two dealt stricly in the 12 bar format
we call the blues. In fact there are actually recordings of Louis
accompanying Bessie from the 20's. So he crossed over between blues,
jazz and pop.
> I thought
> they were all blues.
Well, kinda but not strictly speaking.
> But I could listen to Dixieland all day. And have.
> Mammoth Lakes has a Dixieland festival every July with four stages and
> music from morn 'til the wee hours.
What's called Dixieland today is basically a white regurgitation of the
original New Orleans Jazz sound. Not to say it isn't fun but its
improvisational and original nature has been somewhat corrupted.
Just thought you'd all just love knowing all this stuff. :-)
--
Brock
Kris Hasson
In article <348727...@mdhost.cse.tek.com>,
Brock Hannibal <bro...@mdhost.cse.tek.com> wrote:
[snip master's dissertation on differentiation and history of jazz and blues]
> Just thought you'd all just love knowing all this stuff. :-)
Gee, Brock, I did. Really. I love jazz, always have. And blues, some, too.
And Tek pays you for this? How do I get one of those jobs?
Kris (has...@teleport.com)
A!
>Just thought you'd all just love knowing all this stuff. :-)
Damn straight, I do! Dare I say, "keep rappin'", man?
A!
Brock Hannibal
A! wrote:
> <ahem> You about to join Mr. Helms' "But is it art" school of
> cultural representation? I thought not! I have a book by Ivy
> League art scholars documenting and studying graffiti precisely
> as art,
Only confirms my opinion of Ivy League scholars! :-)
> and my education in art includes kitsch. But, if your
> definition of art must include "the majority must *like* it",
Now you're putting words in my mouth. By "art form" I mean a type of art
taken up and used by others not in the original forming group.
> there are plenty of other examples...Native American, Shaker,
> Chicago stone highrises, skyscrapers, Prairie homes, Grandma
> Moses/Charles Wysocki-style painting, etc.
For instance, you don't see the art form of Prairie homes practiced in
Russia, China and Europe. Neither do you see Native American art taken
up by the Japanese. You don't see Shaker art practiced in Vienna. You DO
see jazz practiced and studied in all those other places.
> >> A "you said 'ONLY'" !
> >
> >I meant it when I said it was the only TRULY american art form. Almost
> >all others are imports. We export Jazz. It developed here and was
> >refined here. Folk music is not jazz. Jazz most fundamental tenet is
> >improvisation. Even composed and arranged jazz allows for improvisation.
> >Blues and ragtime fed into jazz as did some European music, especially
> >the Celtic. Basically jazz was a syncretic development between European
> >band music, ragtime, blues, African and Creole music. It formed sometime
> >between 1910 and 1920 in New Orleans. From about 1920 to 1954 jazz and
> >popular music were one and the same.
>
> Preachin' to the choir, mon! (But I like an informative lecture
> anytime, so, Thanks!) Jazz be way 'merican and twice cewl. But
> I'd have to question whether improvisation had never existed
> before,
Of course improvisation exiisted in other forms of music. It is just
than in jazz it is central to the idiom.
> and also question many of your personal evaluations of
> different forms of jazz.
Well, I DO have my prejudices like anyone. :-)
> I was being facetious in the [snipped]
> list of "jazz" this and that, but I've heard some pretty jazzy
> folk tunes improvised, like when John McCutcheon played with Tom
> Lear.
Incorporating elements of one form into another is common enough. Jazz
influences other music just as other mucic influences jazz.
> And I'd bet Parliament would include jazz as a basis of
> their sound
Maybe as an influence but not as a basis. IMO.
> In your history of jazz, you even trace it's roots
> to some European sources. Blues, while generally seperated from
> folk, is the expression of American slave labor--which at it's
> heart is "folk"--and has roots that have been traced to native
> African music.
See my other post today in the "Be it jazz, or be it ain't?" thread in
this newsgroup.
Well I tried to show that even though jazz had roots in many other
musical forms it was "syncretic" and not evolutionary. It combined these
elements in a unique way and formed a wholly new form which had not
existed previously.
>
> I know that it is frequently said (for instance, on KMHD) that
> jazz is "the only truly American art form", but that kind of
> dogma is sure to raise hackles on anyone who takes a slightly
> broader view of the world than jingoist jazz lovers. Art is
> rarely so kind as to fit into the categories it's critics would
> label it, and it never occurs without some precedent (ob.
> contrary example: Watts Towers, though I could probably postulate
> some precedents for them).
Well I stand by my original assertion that jazz is the only
internationally accepted and wholly developed in America, art form.
Local folk art excepted.
>
> America is a great place, and the "melting pot" has produced many
> wonderful results. But to not recognize it's sources and to only
> honor one of a myriad of arts seems to belie those riches.
Nonsense. You are implying that I don't recognize the contributions of
other music to jazz, which is contrary to my original assertions. Of
course I apreciate many of the native folk art backwaters but niche art
nonetheless it remains, whereas jazz is an internationally recognized
improvisational and compositional art form.
>
> >Sigh, it's like trying to explain electrical fields theory to a software
> >geek. :-)
>
> It's like trying to explain splitters to a lumper (-;
>
Huh?
--
Brock
Zoltan The Magnificent
Brock Hannibal <bro...@mdhost.cse.tek.com> wrote:
>It's really weird that the deeper I get into trying to simulate hardware
>the more software I have to write. Jeez, I haven't touched an actual
>scope or soldering iron in years! I guess I've met the enemy and they is
>us!
Just because we can emulate your hardware before you can find the soldering
iron DON'T make us the enemy!!
Zoltan Who Sez "Software Is Your Friend"
Zoltan The Magnificent
amu...@teleport.com (A!) wrote:
>On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 15:01:48 -0800, Brock Hannibal
><bro...@mdhost.cse.tek.com> wrote:
>
>[snip personal categorizations of music]
>
>>>and "country/western" jazWHACKWHACKWHACK!
>>
>>Ma! Get my gun!
>
>Damn hoodads are poachin' in the perch pond agin.
>
>>> But, like I was saying...Velvet Elvi', hotrods, graffiti,
>>> chain-saw sculpture, yard-art...
>>
>>Those may be interesting bits of americana but hardly qualify as art
>>forms.
>
><ahem> You about to join Mr. Helms' "But is it art" school of
>cultural representation? I thought not! I have a book by Ivy
>League art scholars documenting and studying graffiti precisely
>as art, and my education in art includes kitsch.
Y'know, there's no way I can actually join this discussion. But when I look at
Alan's impassioned missives regarding velvet Elvi, books about graffitti and
toilet stacks, I just have to wonder what his life is like. I gotta say, I
like him - but that don't mean I ain't nervous!!
Zoltan The Trembly Velvet Toilet
Paul Turley
>
>>It's really weird that the deeper I get into trying to simulate hardware
>>the more software I have to write. Jeez, I haven't touched an actual
>>scope or soldering iron in years! I guess I've met the enemy and they is
>>us!
>
>Just because we can emulate your hardware before you can find the soldering
>iron DON'T make us the enemy!!
Yup, without software, hardware's just a Box O' Rocks.
Not that software makes it any smarter, but at least it can do *something*
--ph(thinking that pdx.singles may not be the place to mention firmware)t
Brock Hannibal
Zoltan The Magnificent wrote:
>
> Brock Hannibal <bro...@mdhost.cse.tek.com> wrote:
>
> >It's really weird that the deeper I get into trying to simulate hardware
> >the more software I have to write. Jeez, I haven't touched an actual
> >scope or soldering iron in years! I guess I've met the enemy and they is
> >us!
>
> Just because we can emulate your hardware before you can find the soldering
> iron DON'T make us the enemy!!
Notice I included myself. Nonetheless, software is hardly my friend,
it's more like a rebellious servant that I must force to perform its
appropriate duties.
Brock Hannibal
Paul Turley wrote:
>
> Yup, without software, hardware's just a Box O' Rocks.
> Not that software makes it any smarter, but at least it can do *something*
>
Actually most software is too dumb and too slow too perform many of the
algorithms I put into the IC's. About all software does is say "go" and
"stop" to my chips. My chips(my wonderful little creations) do most of
the "real" work. :-)
--
Brock
Paul Turley
Brock Hannibal <bro...@mdhost.cse.tek.com> wrote:
>Actually most software is too dumb and too slow too perform many of the
>algorithms I put into the IC's. About all software does is say "go" and
>"stop" to my chips. My chips(my wonderful little creations) do most of
>the "real" work. :-)
Exactly my point. No matter how clever the hardware "thinks" it is, it still
needs software to tell it when to go, when to stop, and what to do in between.
"til that's been done, it's just another shiny piece o' rock.
And Brock, need i ask:
Who's more clever, the guy doin' all the "real" work,
or the guy tellin' him when he can stop?
--ph(software island in a hardware C)t
SSteamer
Brock Hannibal wrote:
> Notice I included myself. Nonetheless, software is hardly my friend,
> it's more like a rebellious servant that I must force to perform its
> appropriate duties.
> >
>
-Rebellious? It does just exactly what you tell it to, unless there's a
hardware glitch that is...:)
-Jeff
Zoltan The Magnificent
SSteamer <je...@REMOVEspiritone.com> wrote:
Yeah, and that's usually the problem. It keeps doing what I told it to do,
instead of what I wanted it to do. I hate it when the computer outwits me like
that.
Zoltan The Programmer
SSteamer
Zoltan The Magnificent wrote:
> Yeah, and that's usually the problem. It keeps doing what I told it to
> do,
> instead of what I wanted it to do. I hate it when the computer outwits
> me like
> that.
>
> Zoltan The Programmer
Kind of like getting a wish granted (Genie like). You might get the
wish, but it's probably not quite what you expected.
-Jeff
Brock Hannibal
Paul Turley wrote:
>
> Brock Hannibal <bro...@mdhost.cse.tek.com> wrote:
>
> >Actually most software is too dumb and too slow too perform many of the
> >algorithms I put into the IC's. About all software does is say "go" and
> >"stop" to my chips. My chips(my wonderful little creations) do most of
> >the "real" work. :-)
>
> Exactly my point. No matter how clever the hardware "thinks" it is, it still
> needs software to tell it when to go, when to stop, and what to do in between.
> "til that's been done, it's just another shiny piece o' rock.
Duh, printf. Duh, printf.
>
> And Brock, need i ask:
> Who's more clever, the guy doin' all the "real" work,
> or the guy tellin' him when he can stop?
You have a point here. Maybe I better rethink my job. :-)
>
> --ph(software island in a hardware C)t
--
Brock Hannibal
Kris Hasson wrote:
>
> Gee, Brock, I did. Really. I love jazz, always have. And blues, some, too.
>
> And Tek pays you for this? How do I get one of those jobs?
Well, they pay me a yearly salary, which when divided by the number of
hours I work comes out to about $1.25 an hour so I suppose they're not
too worried! :-)
Brock