Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 07:09:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Emmanuel Deloget <log...@free.fr> To: pandaboard@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <f6a7bdf1-a796-4dcd-94a0-eb56b3b73760@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <5E8EAD7A0F20034FA79ADBD3036305BE04207D23@DFLE34.ent.ti.com> References: <eaf2c9f3-21a4-4ce6-aa3f-5f5c22c308c3@googlegroups.com> <CAAMy4UTRKx+5c70RTzEkQEyPGD4rjS8d480vFLVVboUh2EhAgg@mail.gmail.com> <5E8EAD7A0F20034FA79ADBD3036305BE04207D23@DFLE34.ent.ti.com> Subject: Re: [pandaboard] OMAP5 Community Board Wishlist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1188_4672060.1344607774647" ------=_Part_1188_4672060.1344607774647 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1189_5943152.1344607774647" ------=_Part_1189_5943152.1344607774647 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some ideas and counter-ideas.=20 Le jeudi 9 ao=C3=BBt 2012 06:59:26 UTC+2, VJ a =C3=A9crit : > > * * > > - Have the board either 100% open or fully supported, don=E2=80= =99t give=20 > answers like =E2=80=9Cnot available or license restrictions=E2=80=9D > > The most important here is "fully supported". Even if some IP vendors do=20 not want to open their code, TI must make sure that every bit of=20 functionnality is supported by the shipped blobs. For instance, it's not=20 possible (or excessively difficult) to have OpenGL ES and HD video decoding= =20 without X on the current Panda (this should not be a prerequisite).=20 =20 > - Flash on Board ( 1 MB , NAND ?? ) > > o Boot From flash > > In my personnal experience, I believe this is a bad idea. Boot from flash= =20 means that you'll have to put extra effort to design something that will=20 not be brickable - having to buy another PB because the flash is corrupted= =20 is harsh, and most people here will not buy a JTAG (even if there are some= =20 inexpensive ones).=20 I understand that some people will think that booting from flash is a good= =20 thing, but for a development board like the Panda, I think one shall make= =20 sure that the board will always boot (and this is not something you can=20 achieve with flash).=20 =20 > - Ethernet 10/100 is fine but a pair of 10/100/1000 links=20 > desirable > There is no need to transform the PB into an ethernet router (not to=20 mention that 2 links means that the board should integrate a switch) but a= =20 Gbe link would definitely be a good thing (and even better if it's not a=20 USB-based PHY).=20 =20 > - Remove DB-9 serial port and instead just put a 10-pin header= =20 > (easier in enclosures with ribbon cable) > > o Switch to low profile usb-serial would be better option > > o Make it as flat as possible =E2=80=93 don=E2=80=99t use vertically st= acked 3.5 mm and=20 > USB/RJ45 combination sockets > > o Please don=E2=80=99t ditch DB9 connector =E2=80=93 hate to source ext= ra parts just to=20 > get the board running first time > > o Have some _*raw*_ RS232 available =E2=80=93 don=E2=80=99t care what c= onnector it has > I'm all in favor of keeping the DB9. Any other option is very likely to=20 become a PITA (not to mention that we already have the cables :)) =20 > - BIOS Firmware support > > o Something similar to Award BIOS on PC/desktops/laptops > > o Diagnostics/Self Test on Flash instead of using validation image. > > o splash screen > > o Ability to Flash BIOS > ... and to brick the box.=20 I'm not sure that a BIOS would add any value to the box. It's not a PC, and= =20 the current bootloader perform well. Similar functionnality can be achieved= =20 using a 2 stage bootloader (the first one performs the CPU init, the second= =20 one offers a few higher leve functionalities). That would require nvram or something like a serial eeprom (i2c). And *tha= t * would be a good thing IMHO.=20 But the most important thing are :=20 * keep the hardware simple and inexpensive. If you can lower the price, do= =20 it.=20 * support your product - far beyond scenarios that you envisionned. If you= =20 cannot provide the source, provide blobs that are not tied to a particular= =20 scenarios (or multiple blobs, for different scenarios). There are hackers= =20 here and there that really want to do things you didn't think of. And=20 remember that Ubuntu is NOT an embedded platform.=20 best regards,=20 -- Emmanuel ------=_Part_1189_5943152.1344607774647 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <br>Some ideas and counter-ideas. <br><br><br>Le jeudi 9 ao=C3=BBt 201= 2 06:59:26 UTC+2, VJ a =C3=A9crit :<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s= tyle=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-le= ft: 1ex;"> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"= ;Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri= , sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">-<span style=3D"font-size: 7pt; li= ne-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "> &nbs= p; </span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-se= rif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Have the board either 100% open or fully su= pported, don=E2=80=99t give answers like =E2=80=9Cnot available or license = restrictions=E2=80=9D</span><br></p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa= ns-serif";color:#1f497d"><span></span></span></p></div></div></blockqu= ote><div><br></div><div>The most important here is "fully supported". Even = if some IP vendors do not want to open their code, TI must make sure that e= very bit of functionnality is supported by the shipped blobs. For instance,= it's not possible (or excessively difficult) to have OpenGL ES and HD vide= o decoding without X on the current Panda (this should not be a prerequisit= e). </div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q= uote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;pad= ding-left: 1ex;"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><p><spa= n style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">-<span style=3D"font-size: 7= pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "> &nbs= p; </span></span>Flash on Board ( 1 MB , NAND ?? )<br></p> <p style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""><span>o<span style=3D"f= ont:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span>Boot From flash</p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa= ns-serif";color:#1f497d"><span></span></span></p></div></blockquote><d= iv><br></div><div>In my personnal experience, I believe this is a bad idea.= Boot from flash means that you'll have to put extra effort to design somet= hing that will not be brickable - having to buy another PB because the flas= h is corrupted is harsh, and most people here will not buy a JTAG (even if = there are some inexpensive ones). </div><div><br></div><div>I understa= nd that some people will think that booting from flash is a good thing, but= for a development board like the Panda, I think one shall make sure that t= he board will always boot (and this is not something you can achieve with f= lash). </div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class=3D"gmai= l_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;= padding-left: 1ex;"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><p><= span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb= (31, 73, 125); ">-<span style=3D"font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-= family: 'Times New Roman'; "> &nbs= p; </span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-se= rif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Ethernet </span>10/100 is fine but a pair of 10/100/1000 links desirable<br></p></di= v></blockquote><div>There is no need to transform the PB into an ethernet r= outer (not to mention that 2 links means that the board should integrate a = switch) but a Gbe link would definitely be a good thing (and even better if= it's not a USB-based PHY). </div><div><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 7= 3, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; "> </span>= </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8= ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link= =3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri= , sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">-<span style=3D"font-size: 7pt; li= ne-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "> &nbs= p; </span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-se= rif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Remove DB-9 serial port and instead just pu= t a 10-pin header (easier in enclosures with ribbon cable)</span><br></p> <p style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#= 1f497d"><span>o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> = ; </span></span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali= bri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Switch to low profile usb-s= erial would be better option</span></p> <p style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#= 1f497d"><span>o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> = ; </span></span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali= bri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Make it as flat as possible= =E2=80=93 don=E2=80=99t use vertically stacked 3.5 mm and USB/RJ45 combina= tion sockets</span></p> <p style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#= 1f497d"><span>o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> = ; </span></span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali= bri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Please don=E2=80=99t ditch = DB9 connector =E2=80=93 hate to source extra parts just to get the board ru= nning first time</span></p> <p style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#= 1f497d"><span>o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> = ; </span></span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali= bri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Have some _<i>raw</i>_ RS23= 2 available =E2=80=93 don=E2=80=99t care what connector it has</span></p></= div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'm all in favor of keeping the DB9. A= ny other option is very likely to become a PITA (not to mention that we alr= eady have the cables :))</div><div> </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q= uote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;pad= ding-left: 1ex;"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div> <p><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><= span>-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> &n= bsp; </span></span></span>BIOS Firmware support</p> <p style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""><span>o<span style=3D"f= ont:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span>Something similar to Award BIOS on PC/desktops/laptops= </p> <p style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""><span>o<span style=3D"f= ont:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span>Diagnostics/Self Test on Flash instead of using valida= tion image.</p> <p style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""><span>o<span style=3D"f= ont:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span>splash screen</p> <p style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""><span>o<span style=3D"f= ont:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span>Ability to Flash BIOS</p></div></div></blockquote><div= >... and to brick the box. </div><div><br></div><div>I'm not sure that= a BIOS would add any value to the box. It's not a PC, and the current boot= loader perform well. Similar functionnality can be achieved using a 2 stage= bootloader (the first one performs the CPU init, the second one offers a f= ew higher leve functionalities).</div><div><br></div><div>That would requir= e nvram or something like a serial eeprom (i2c). And <i>that</i> woul= d be a good thing IMHO. </div><div><br></div><div>But the most importa= nt thing are : </div><div><br></div><div>* keep the hardware simple an= d inexpensive. If you can lower the price, do it. </div><div>* support= your product - far beyond scenarios that you envisionned. If you cannot pr= ovide the source, provide blobs that are not tied to a particular scenarios= (or multiple blobs, for different scenarios). There are hackers here and t= here that really want to do things you didn't think of. And remember that U= buntu is NOT an embedded platform. </div><div><br></div><div>best rega= rds, </div><div><br></div><div>-- Emmanuel</div><div><br></div><div><b= r></div> ------=_Part_1189_5943152.1344607774647-- ------=_Part_1188_4672060.1344607774647--
Message from discussion OMAP5 Community Board Wishlist
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