Brendan Le Foll had written, on 12/17/2010 02:43 PM, the following:
> On 17 December 2010 21:05, Nishanth Menon <n...@ti.com> wrote: >> just curious as being a pandaboard community member - what specific >> connectivity options are you expecting?
>> Ethernet, EHCI, USB (peripheral and host otg) HDMI and DVI, Wlan are readily >> available on pandaboard along with an beagleboard compatible expansion board >> connector, camera and additional display connector.. > Compared to using CE4100 such as the telecom italia box :- spdif > audio, component output, scart output, IR support and conditional > access slot. It could be a better choice than an atom/crystalhd > implementation especially if TI is ready to provide developers with > them!
> Brendan Le Foll had written, on 12/17/2010 02:43 PM, the following:
> > On 17 December 2010 21:05, Nishanth Menon <n...@ti.com> wrote:
> >> just curious as being a pandaboard community member - what specific
> >> connectivity options are you expecting?
> >> Ethernet, EHCI, USB (peripheral and host otg) HDMI and DVI, Wlan are readily
> >> available on pandaboard along with an beagleboard compatible expansion board
> >> connector, camera and additional display connector..
> > Compared to using CE4100 such as the telecom italia box :- spdif
> > audio, component output, scart output, IR support and conditional
> > access slot. It could be a better choice than an atom/crystalhd
> > implementation especially if TI is ready to provide developers with
> > them!
> Could someone help suggest potential solution for Panda from h/w
> perspective?
not sure what the question is here. are you asking if there is
interested in the meego TV development using the panda or asking if
there are some hardware solution to provide additional interfaces?
> > Brendan Le Foll had written, on 12/17/2010 02:43 PM, the following:
> > > On 17 December 2010 21:05, Nishanth Menon <n...@ti.com> wrote:
> > >> just curious as being a pandaboard community member - what specific
> > >> connectivity options are you expecting?
> > >> Ethernet, EHCI, USB (peripheral and host otg) HDMI and DVI, Wlan are readily
> > >> available on pandaboard along with an beagleboard compatible expansion board
> > >> connector, camera and additional display connector..
> > > Compared to using CE4100 such as the telecom italia box :- spdif
> > > audio, component output, scart output, IR support and conditional
> > > access slot. It could be a better choice than an atom/crystalhd
> > > implementation especially if TI is ready to provide developers with
> > > them!
> > Could someone help suggest potential solution for Panda from h/w
> > perspective?
> not sure what the question is here. are you asking if there is
> interested in the meego TV development using the panda or asking if
> there are some hardware solution to provide additional interfaces?
Apologies on the late response, was on vacation.
I think my question was w.r.t Brendan's point:
"spdif audio, component output, scart output, IR support and
conditional
access slot. It could be a better choice than an atom/crystalhd
implementation especially if TI is ready to provide developers with
them!"
do we know how Panda can support these as expansion?
> Apologies on the late response, was on vacation.
> I think my question was w.r.t Brendan's point:
> "spdif audio, component output, scart output, IR support and
> conditional
> access slot. It could be a better choice than an atom/crystalhd
> implementation especially if TI is ready to provide developers with
> them!"
> do we know how Panda can support these as expansion?
> Regards,
> Nishanth Menon
SPDIF, component output, and IR are easily enough to add to the panda
via the expansion slot.
i'm not sure why anyone would want scart output, but it would be
doable too with some work.
as to the "conditional access slot", i'm not sure what this is
referencing. possible a "SIM" card of some sort. i'd need more details
to answer this one.
On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 3:19 PM, prpplague <dave123...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Nishanth,
>> Apologies on the late response, was on vacation. >> I think my question was w.r.t Brendan's point: >> "spdif audio, component output, scart output, IR support and >> conditional >> access slot. It could be a better choice than an atom/crystalhd >> implementation especially if TI is ready to provide developers with >> them!"
>> do we know how Panda can support these as expansion?
> SPDIF, component output, and IR are easily enough to add to the panda > via the expansion slot.
So the usual expansion slot we already have on panda should be enough I guess?
> i'm not sure why anyone would want scart output, but it would be > doable too with some work.
> as to the "conditional access slot", i'm not sure what this is > referencing. possible a "SIM" card of some sort. i'd need more details > to answer this one.
menon.nisha...@gmail.com wrote: > On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 3:19 PM, prpplague <dave123...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Nishanth,
>>> Apologies on the late response, was on vacation. >>> I think my question was w.r.t Brendan's point: >>> "spdif audio, component output, scart output, IR support and >>> conditional >>> access slot. It could be a better choice than an atom/crystalhd >>> implementation especially if TI is ready to provide developers with >>> them!"
>>> do we know how Panda can support these as expansion?
>> SPDIF, component output, and IR are easily enough to add to the panda >> via the expansion slot. > So the usual expansion slot we already have on panda should be enough I guess?
So long as you have the LCD bus, yes. It'll be expensive, and Not A Real Set Top(tm) , but you can do it - the components can all be bought off Digikey. We did something similar for a demo with a Beagle C3 a year or two back.
Better would be for TI (or someone) to develop an STB reference design and you can use that instead.
You probably want your IR done by an MSP430 or some other microcontroller; saves spurious interrupts and if you're going this way, cost isn't an issue. Or (*fx: blows own trumpet*) use <http://www.kynesim.co.uk/products.html> or one of its many clones and avoid the problem completely.
You'll need SPDIF out of McASP rather than McBSP; don't know what's on the expansion connector off-hand. Otherwise you're into a rather expensive SPDIF out codec - Wolfson do some.
You can't have component unless you have the LCD bus exposed - only S/Video (that said, component is a pain in most ways anyway).
Conditional access means many things to many people; in Europe, Dominique probably wants CI (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Interface>) which is basically PCMCIA. In the US you might (?!) want Cablecard, which is essentially identical but works differently. You would probably want to slap a Xilinx down to do the voltage translation and use that for your control micro and IR whilst you were at it.
Though, frankly, no-one is going to licence your CA/DRM implementation anyway so an access card implementation is supremely useless to hobbyists (though if you feel like working for STB companies for free, they probably won't turn you down).
Being firmly in the Android camp, I happen to think the MeeGo guys are basically chasing up an increasingly blind alley (albeit a blind alley whose upstreams I will gladly nick :-)), but if they want a decent, standard, reference set-top, an OMAP4-based one seems perfectly practical to me - and it has the advantage that TI are happy to support the community; the only question is whether someone will design and manufacture one - and, of course, given Dominique's position, Intel should really be providing free reference hardware and software themselves!
If the business case turns out to be breakeven-able, I can ask around and see if a suitable reference box can be designed/otherwise made available?
> -----Original Message----- > From: pandaboard@googlegroups.com [mailto:pandaboard@googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Richard Watts > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 3:10 PM > To: pandaboard@googlegroups.com > Cc: bren...@fridu.org; mic...@sawicz.net > Subject: Re: [pandaboard] Re: Question regarding Pandaboard connectivity for > Meego TV application
> menon.nisha...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 3:19 PM, prpplague <dave123...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Nishanth,
> >>> Apologies on the late response, was on vacation. > >>> I think my question was w.r.t Brendan's point: > >>> "spdif audio, component output, scart output, IR support and > >>> conditional > >>> access slot. It could be a better choice than an atom/crystalhd > >>> implementation especially if TI is ready to provide developers with > >>> them!"
> >>> do we know how Panda can support these as expansion?
> >> SPDIF, component output, and IR are easily enough to add to the panda > >> via the expansion slot. > > So the usual expansion slot we already have on panda should be enough I guess?
> So long as you have the LCD bus, yes. It'll be expensive, and Not A Real Set > Top(tm) , but you can do it - the components can all be bought off Digikey. > We did something similar for a demo with a Beagle C3 a year or two back.
> Better would be for TI (or someone) to develop an STB reference design and > you can use that instead.
> You probably want your IR done by an MSP430 or some other microcontroller; > saves spurious interrupts and if you're going this way, cost isn't an > issue. Or (*fx: blows own trumpet*) use
> or one of its many clones and avoid the problem completely.
> You'll need SPDIF out of McASP rather than McBSP; don't know what's on > the expansion connector off-hand. Otherwise you're into a rather expensive > SPDIF out codec - Wolfson do some.
> You can't have component unless you have the LCD bus exposed - only S/Video > (that said, component is a pain in most ways anyway).
> Conditional access means many things to many people; in Europe, Dominique > probably wants CI (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Interface>) which is > basically PCMCIA. In the US you might (?!) want Cablecard, which is essentially > identical but works differently. You would probably want to slap a Xilinx down to > do the voltage translation and use that for your control micro and IR whilst you > were at it.
> Though, frankly, no-one is going to licence your CA/DRM implementation anyway > so an access card implementation is supremely useless to hobbyists (though if > you feel like working for STB companies for free, they probably won't turn > you down).
> Being firmly in the Android camp, I happen to think the MeeGo guys are basically > chasing up an increasingly blind alley (albeit a blind alley whose upstreams I > will gladly nick :-)), but if they want a decent, standard, reference set-top, an > OMAP4-based one seems perfectly practical to me - and it has the advantage that > TI > are happy to support the community; the only question is whether someone will > design > and manufacture one - and, of course, given Dominique's position, Intel should > really be providing free reference hardware and software themselves!
> If the business case turns out to be breakeven-able, I can ask around and see > if a suitable reference box can be designed/otherwise made available?
> menon.nisha...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 3:19 PM, prpplague <dave123...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Nishanth,
> >>> Apologies on the late response, was on vacation.
> >>> I think my question was w.r.t Brendan's point:
> >>> "spdif audio, component output, scart output, IR support and
> >>> conditional
> >>> access slot. It could be a better choice than an atom/crystalhd
> >>> implementation especially if TI is ready to provide developers with
> >>> them!"
> >>> do we know how Panda can support these as expansion?
> >> SPDIF, component output, and IR are easily enough to add to the panda
> >> via the expansion slot.
> > So the usual expansion slot we already have on panda should be enough I guess?
> So long as you have the LCD bus, yes. It'll be expensive, and Not A Real Set
> Top(tm) , but you can do it - the components can all be bought off Digikey.
> We did something similar for a demo with a Beagle C3 a year or two back.
> Better would be for TI (or someone) to develop an STB reference design and
> you can use that instead.
> You probably want your IR done by an MSP430 or some other microcontroller;
> saves spurious interrupts and if you're going this way, cost isn't an
> issue. Or (*fx: blows own trumpet*) use <http://www.kynesim.co.uk/products.html>
> or one of its many clones and avoid the problem completely.
> You'll need SPDIF out of McASP rather than McBSP; don't know what's on
> the expansion connector off-hand. Otherwise you're into a rather expensive
> SPDIF out codec - Wolfson do some.
> You can't have component unless you have the LCD bus exposed - only S/Video
> (that said, component is a pain in most ways anyway).
> Conditional access means many things to many people; in Europe, Dominique
> probably wants CI (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Interface>) which is
> basically PCMCIA. In the US you might (?!) want Cablecard, which is essentially
> identical but works differently. You would probably want to slap a Xilinx down to
> do the voltage translation and use that for your control micro and IR whilst you
> were at it.
> Though, frankly, no-one is going to licence your CA/DRM implementation anyway
> so an access card implementation is supremely useless to hobbyists (though if
> you feel like working for STB companies for free, they probably won't turn
> you down).
> Being firmly in the Android camp, I happen to think the MeeGo guys are basically
> chasing up an increasingly blind alley (albeit a blind alley whose upstreams I
> will gladly nick :-)), but if they want a decent, standard, reference set-top, an
> OMAP4-based one seems perfectly practical to me - and it has the advantage that TI
> are happy to support the community; the only question is whether someone will design
> and manufacture one - and, of course, given Dominique's position, Intel should
> really be providing free reference hardware and software themselves!
> If the business case turns out to be breakeven-able, I can ask around and see
> if a suitable reference box can be designed/otherwise made available?
Richard Watts wrote: > Being firmly in the Android camp, I happen to think the MeeGo guys are basically > chasing up an increasingly blind alley (albeit a blind alley whose upstreams I > will gladly nick :-)), but if they want a decent, standard, reference set-top, an > OMAP4-based one seems perfectly practical to me - and it has the advantage that TI > are happy to support the community; the only question is whether someone will design
I don't see the OMAP4 as a STB chip at all, you need to add too many things to it as this thread has proved.
Starting from something like the Netra aka DM8168 might be better, but then again this one also lacks stuff like CA.
For a commercial STB product, lack of builtin (and thus "secure") CA is a big showstopper.
> Richard Watts wrote: >> Being firmly in the Android camp, I happen to think the MeeGo guys are basically >> chasing up an increasingly blind alley (albeit a blind alley whose upstreams I >> will gladly nick :-)), but if they want a decent, standard, reference set-top, an >> OMAP4-based one seems perfectly practical to me - and it has the advantage that TI >> are happy to support the community; the only question is whether someone will design
> I don't see the OMAP4 as a STB chip at all, you need to add too many things to it > as this thread has proved.
It really isn't. However, it is not too expensive, it is well-understood and has good software support and if you're worried about actually getting a product to market in a reasonable timeframe at a reasonable development cost, it is (IMO) much better to pick a well-understood device which is easy to engineer with and build that up than it is to throw a bunch of IP together on a SoC, cross fingers, and spend your time trying to debug the hardware.
By extension, if you're planning to get a bunch of random hackers together to support a platform, starting with something that barely runs Linux is handicapping yourself before you start.
- or in other words, for MeeGo (or indeed Android) Connected TV I'd suggest focusing on the functionality. Let the commercial STB companies spend 5 man-years fighting STAPI.
> Starting from something like the Netra aka DM8168 might be better, but then again > this one also lacks stuff like CA.
You mean Integra, and yes; they are better suited to the job in hand but far more expensive than OMAP + addons, they have much less mature software support, and I don't know of a cheaply available dev board for them.
If you're really looking at an STB-targetted device, ST7105 seems to be the thing to use; I hear ST are selling dev boards for it. But you'll spend most of your time trying to persuade it to start up rather than doing useful engineering.
Trident are rumoured to have a dual-core Cortex-A9 STB device, but it seems to exist so far only in press briefs.
> For a commercial STB product, lack of builtin (and thus "secure") CA is a big > showstopper.
Correct. And anyone building a commercial STB project will have to write some. I'm just pointing out that since no-one in the hacker community is going to get certification for their CA, (a) it will be hard to test, and (b) it will be useless except to people who intend to take your code and make their money off it.
If you're happy with that, a free CI/CableCard stack would be very welcome. I just don't see the incentive for anyone to write one - perhaps one of the people who have one will see an adoption advantage in making theirs open-source, though.
(and I will personally buy a pint for anyone who can come up with a standards-level MHEG stack)
Op 5 jan 2011, om 11:30 heeft Richard Watts het volgende geschreven:
>> Starting from something like the Netra aka DM8168 might be better, but then again >> this one also lacks stuff like CA.
> You mean Integra
No he means netra, which is the family name. Integra (AM389x) is the spin without the interesting IVAHD and DSP bits. C6A816x has the DSP as extra and DM816x is the full package.
