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Gun registry does not lead to confiscation
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Baxter
Mar 31, 2013, 2:22:51 PM3/31/13
to
Under the 1934 National Firearms Act, the ATF is required to maintain a
registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other weaponry
favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
(http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary/)
If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
A bit of trivia. There has never been a crime committed using a registered
machine gun.
--
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registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other weaponry
favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
(http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary/)
If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
A bit of trivia. There has never been a crime committed using a registered
machine gun.
--
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Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
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John
Mar 31, 2013, 3:49:07 PM3/31/13
to
Baxter wrote:
> Under the 1934 National Firearms Act, the ATF is required to maintain a
> registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other weaponry
> favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
>
> As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
> registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
> (http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary/)
>
> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
>
> A bit of trivia. There has never been a crime committed using a registered
> machine gun.
>
Of course not, they won't until the registry includes all guns. That's
> Under the 1934 National Firearms Act, the ATF is required to maintain a
> registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other weaponry
> favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
>
> As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
> registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
> (http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary/)
>
> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
>
> A bit of trivia. There has never been a crime committed using a registered
> machine gun.
>
as dumb as people that said obama doesn't want your guns, if he did why
didn't he go after them his first term. Liberals couldn't be more ignorant.
Baxter
Mar 31, 2013, 4:31:33 PM3/31/13
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Wayne
Mar 31, 2013, 5:19:34 PM3/31/13
to
"Baxter" wrote in message news:kja6em$bhu$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
IIRC, the only assault rifles used in a crime in the US in the past 30 years
or so was the North Hollywood bank robbery.
The perps fired about 2000 rounds and didn't kill anybody (injured 20 or
so). Of course, it didn't work out to well for the perps.
Baxter
Mar 31, 2013, 5:48:08 PM3/31/13
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RD Sandman
Mar 31, 2013, 5:49:54 PM3/31/13
to
"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
news:kj9uth$l1s$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> Under the 1934 National Firearms Act, the ATF is required to maintain
> a registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other
> weaponry favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
And a $200 dollar tax.
> As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
> registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
> (http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary
> /)
And there will not be many more since the ownership of one is restricted
to those manufactured prior to 1986 and they are getting to be very
expensive.
> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
What is the NRA saying that you are upset about?
> A bit of trivia. There has never been a crime committed using a
> registered machine gun.
That's probably true, although the number one keeps popping into my head.
--
Sleep well, tonight.....
RD (The Sandman
If you take out the murders, Washington has
a very low crime rate!
news:kj9uth$l1s$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> Under the 1934 National Firearms Act, the ATF is required to maintain
> a registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other
> weaponry favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
> As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
> registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
> (http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary
> /)
to those manufactured prior to 1986 and they are getting to be very
expensive.
> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
> A bit of trivia. There has never been a crime committed using a
> registered machine gun.
--
Sleep well, tonight.....
RD (The Sandman
If you take out the murders, Washington has
a very low crime rate!
Baxter
Mar 31, 2013, 6:08:37 PM3/31/13
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"RD Sandman" <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote in message
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news:XnsA19496E17...@216.196.121.131...
>> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
>
> What is the NRA saying that you are upset about?
>
Aren't *you* upset that the NRA is lying about gun confiscation?
>
> What is the NRA saying that you are upset about?
>
Sancho Panza
Mar 31, 2013, 6:23:33 PM3/31/13
to
real people with real confiscations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4.
Scout
Mar 31, 2013, 6:46:10 PM3/31/13
to
"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
So why are you asking for that which isn't necessary?
Scout
Mar 31, 2013, 6:47:01 PM3/31/13
to
news:kjac4i$t8t$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Since they have occurred and the risk they will occur again is valid, what
exactly should I be upset about?
exactly should I be upset about?
RD Sandman
Mar 31, 2013, 7:22:14 PM3/31/13
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"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
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> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't have any problem whatsoever being held responsible for MY guns.
I do object strenuously to being held responsible for YOUR guns.
news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
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I do object strenuously to being held responsible for YOUR guns.
RD Sandman
Mar 31, 2013, 7:23:25 PM3/31/13
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"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
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California or New York?
news:kjac4i$t8t$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
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> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
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> -------------
>
> "RD Sandman" <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:XnsA19496E17...@216.196.121.131...
>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
>> news:kj9uth$l1s$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>>
>>
>>> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
>>
>> What is the NRA saying that you are upset about?
>>
> Aren't *you* upset that the NRA is lying about gun confiscation?
What are they lying about? Are you familiar with what happened in
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> "RD Sandman" <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:XnsA19496E17...@216.196.121.131...
>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
>> news:kj9uth$l1s$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>>
>>
>>> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
>>
>> What is the NRA saying that you are upset about?
>>
> Aren't *you* upset that the NRA is lying about gun confiscation?
California or New York?
Baxter
Mar 31, 2013, 7:54:32 PM3/31/13
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"Sancho Panza" <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
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Baxter
Mar 31, 2013, 8:01:04 PM3/31/13
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"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
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> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>
> news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>
>> What you really object to is being held responsible for your guns:
>
> One can be perfectly responsible without registration.
Apparently not - machine guns must be registered, and the murder rate is
>
> One can be perfectly responsible without registration.
zero -- while handguns are not registered and there are 30 deaths from guns
every day.
Baxter
Mar 31, 2013, 8:02:59 PM3/31/13
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"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:kjae9e$7ib$1...@dont-email.me...
> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> news:kjac4i$t8t$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>
> news:kjac4i$t8t$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>
>> Aren't *you* upset that the NRA is lying about gun confiscation?
>
> Since they have occurred and the risk they will occur again is valid, what
> exactly should I be upset about?
>
None of those instances have occurred because of gun registration.
>
> Since they have occurred and the risk they will occur again is valid, what
> exactly should I be upset about?
>
Further, Canada, Australia and Britain all have (or had) gun registration
and have not had any significant instances of Confiscation.
RD Sandman
Mar 31, 2013, 8:33:51 PM3/31/13
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"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
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No, but it shows tendencies. The gun control laws being proposed DO
affect me and my guns......but not the criminals.
news:kjaib4$es8$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
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affect me and my guns......but not the criminals.
JohnJohnsn
Mar 31, 2013, 8:36:08 PM3/31/13
to
On Mar 31, 4:49 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> "Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote innews:kj9uth$l1s$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
Yet another example of the government trying to deny "the poor" their
Right to Keep and Bear Arms under the guise of a
"tax" (<cough>ObamaCare<cough>).
BTW; right out of the mouth of the head "RKBA Denier of 1934":
When a Representative asked the Attorney General [Democrat Homer
Stille Cummings] how the proposed NFA `escaped' the provision in our
Constitution denying the privilege to the legislature to take away the
right to carry arms, Cummings answered: “Oh, we do not attempt to
escape it. We are dealing with another power, namely the power of
taxation and of regulation under the interstate commerce clause. You
see, if we made a statute absolutely forbidding any human being to
have a machine gun, you might say there is some constitutional
question involved. But when you say `We will tax the machine gun' and
when you say that `the absence of a license showing payment of the tax
has been made indicates that a crime has been perpetrated' you are
easily within the law.” The Representative then stated, “In other
words, it does not amount to prohibition but allows of regulation,” to
which Attorney General Cummings responded, “That is the idea. We have
studied that very carefully.”
The National Firearms Act of 1934: Hearings on H.R. 9066 Before the
House Comm. on Ways and Means, 73rd Cong. 6, 13, 19 (1934). 33.
unconstitutional; using USAG Cummings' own words against the law.
(dn;t have the date here in front of me right now, though).
Who also wrote:
"The laws in this city are clearly racist. All laws are racist. The
law of gravity is racist."
-- Marion Barry, Mayor of Washington, DC
>
>
> "Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote innews:kj9uth$l1s$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>> Under the 1934 National Firearms Act, the ATF is required to maintain
>> a registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other
>> weaponry favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
>
> And a $200 dollar tax.
>
Which was $3385 in today's dollars. 8-O
>> Under the 1934 National Firearms Act, the ATF is required to maintain
>> a registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other
>> weaponry favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
>
> And a $200 dollar tax.
>
Yet another example of the government trying to deny "the poor" their
Right to Keep and Bear Arms under the guise of a
"tax" (<cough>ObamaCare<cough>).
BTW; right out of the mouth of the head "RKBA Denier of 1934":
When a Representative asked the Attorney General [Democrat Homer
Stille Cummings] how the proposed NFA `escaped' the provision in our
Constitution denying the privilege to the legislature to take away the
right to carry arms, Cummings answered: “Oh, we do not attempt to
escape it. We are dealing with another power, namely the power of
taxation and of regulation under the interstate commerce clause. You
see, if we made a statute absolutely forbidding any human being to
have a machine gun, you might say there is some constitutional
question involved. But when you say `We will tax the machine gun' and
when you say that `the absence of a license showing payment of the tax
has been made indicates that a crime has been perpetrated' you are
easily within the law.” The Representative then stated, “In other
words, it does not amount to prohibition but allows of regulation,” to
which Attorney General Cummings responded, “That is the idea. We have
studied that very carefully.”
The National Firearms Act of 1934: Hearings on H.R. 9066 Before the
House Comm. on Ways and Means, 73rd Cong. 6, 13, 19 (1934). 33.
>
>> As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
>> registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
>> (http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary/)
>
> And there will not be many more since the ownership of one is restricted
> to those manufactured prior to 1986 and they are getting to be very
> expensive.
>
The Machine Gun Ban of 19 May 1986 needs to be challenged as being
>> As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
>> registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
>> (http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary/)
>
> And there will not be many more since the ownership of one is restricted
> to those manufactured prior to 1986 and they are getting to be very
> expensive.
>
unconstitutional; using USAG Cummings' own words against the law.
>
>> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
>
> What is the NRA saying that you are upset about?
>
>> A bit of trivia. There has never been a crime committed using a
>> registered machine gun.
>
> That's probably true, although the number one keeps popping into my head.
>
Yes: a police officer used his privately-owned SMG to kill his wife
>> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
>
> What is the NRA saying that you are upset about?
>
>> A bit of trivia. There has never been a crime committed using a
>> registered machine gun.
>
> That's probably true, although the number one keeps popping into my head.
>
(dn;t have the date here in front of me right now, though).
>
> --
> Sleep well, tonight.....
>
> RD (The Sandman
>
> If you take out the murders, Washington has
> a very low crime rate!
--D.C. Mayor Marion Barry
> --
> Sleep well, tonight.....
>
> RD (The Sandman
>
> If you take out the murders, Washington has
> a very low crime rate!
Who also wrote:
"The laws in this city are clearly racist. All laws are racist. The
law of gravity is racist."
-- Marion Barry, Mayor of Washington, DC
RD Sandman
Mar 31, 2013, 8:50:54 PM3/31/13
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"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
news:kjainc$frr$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
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about 60% of the deaths. Anyway, you produced a number for machine guns.
How close to 310 million was it?
news:kjainc$frr$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
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> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
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>
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:kjae7r$79t$1...@dont-email.me...
>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>
>>> What you really object to is being held responsible for your guns:
>>
>> One can be perfectly responsible without registration.
>
> Apparently not - machine guns must be registered, and the murder rate
> is zero -- while handguns are not registered and there are 30 deaths
> from guns every day.
Even more than that by a large margin if you include suicides which are
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:kjae7r$79t$1...@dont-email.me...
>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>
>>> What you really object to is being held responsible for your guns:
>>
>> One can be perfectly responsible without registration.
>
> Apparently not - machine guns must be registered, and the murder rate
> is zero -- while handguns are not registered and there are 30 deaths
> from guns every day.
about 60% of the deaths. Anyway, you produced a number for machine guns.
How close to 310 million was it?
RD Sandman
Mar 31, 2013, 8:53:16 PM3/31/13
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"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
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Canada had over 50% non-compliance and has cancelled their registration
program as being as useless as tits on a boar while costing over $2B.
news:kjair0$g0j$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
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program as being as useless as tits on a boar while costing over $2B.
RD Sandman
Mar 31, 2013, 9:02:48 PM3/31/13
to
JohnJohnsn <TopCo...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:53e91fd3-336e-4112...@u20g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
That may be the one I was thinking of. I found this:
"Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed
with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law
enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988,
a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger
Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine
gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman
Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to
18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not
apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies.
http://tinyurl.com/yoywzp
news:53e91fd3-336e-4112...@u20g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
"Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed
with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law
enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988,
a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger
Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine
gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman
Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to
18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not
apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies.
http://tinyurl.com/yoywzp
RD Sandman
Mar 31, 2013, 9:07:33 PM3/31/13
to
"A second MAC-11 was used (PDF) by Dr. Shou Chao Ho in the murder of Dr.
Carmelito Olaes in 1992 may be the only murder committed with a legally-
owned, BATF-registered machine gun since the National Firearms Act (NFA)
of 1934 began requiring registration 74 years ago."
Scout
Mar 31, 2013, 10:38:55 PM3/31/13
to
news:kjainc$frr$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
So, according to you when DC required all handguns to be registered....then
absolutely no one was ever murdered using a handgun in the district?
ROTFLMAO....
Are you out to prove you are stupid, or is it you simply can't avoid showing
your stupidity?
absolutely no one was ever murdered using a handgun in the district?
ROTFLMAO....
Are you out to prove you are stupid, or is it you simply can't avoid showing
your stupidity?
Scout
Mar 31, 2013, 10:39:25 PM3/31/13
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> -
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> Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:kjae9e$7ib$1...@dont-email.me...
>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjac4i$t8t$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>
>>> Aren't *you* upset that the NRA is lying about gun confiscation?
>>
>> Since they have occurred and the risk they will occur again is valid,
>> what exactly should I be upset about?
>>
> None of those instances have occurred because of gun registration.
Better check again because they did.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:kjae9e$7ib$1...@dont-email.me...
>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjac4i$t8t$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>
>>> Aren't *you* upset that the NRA is lying about gun confiscation?
>>
>> Since they have occurred and the risk they will occur again is valid,
>> what exactly should I be upset about?
>>
> None of those instances have occurred because of gun registration.
Too_Many_Tools
Mar 31, 2013, 10:44:55 PM3/31/13
to
On Mar 31, 1:22 pm, "Baxter" <baxter.spambl...@baxcode.com> wrote:
> Under the 1934 National Firearms Act, the ATF is required to maintain a
> registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other weaponry
> favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
>
> As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
> registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
> (http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary/)
>
> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
>
> A bit of trivia. There has never been a crime committed using a registered
> machine gun.
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Under the 1934 National Firearms Act, the ATF is required to maintain a
> registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other weaponry
> favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
>
> As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
> registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
> (http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary/)
>
> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
>
> A bit of trivia. There has never been a crime committed using a registered
> machine gun.
>
> --
> Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the NRA is a lying bitch.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Mar 31, 2013, 10:47:28 PM3/31/13
to
On Mar 31, 4:49 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Baxter" <baxter.spambl...@baxcode.com> wrote innews:kj9uth$l1s$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Mar 31, 2013, 10:48:12 PM3/31/13
to
On Mar 31, 5:46 pm, "Scout"
<me4g...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> "Baxter" <baxter.spambl...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>
> news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > -
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > "John" <johnwa...@oldwest.net> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
History shows that is not the case.
TMT
<me4g...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> "Baxter" <baxter.spambl...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>
> news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > -
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > "John" <johnwa...@oldwest.net> wrote in message
> >news:GbCdnXbensyqDsXM...@earthlink.com...
> >> Baxter wrote:
>
> >>> Under the 1934 National Firearms Act, the ATF is required to maintain a
> >>> registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other
> >>> weaponry favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
>
> >>> As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
> >>> registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
> >>> (http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary/)
>
> >>> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
>
> >>> A bit of trivia. There has never been a crime committed using a
> >>> registered machine gun.
>
> >> Of course not, they won't until the registry includes all guns. That's as
> >> dumb as people that said obama doesn't want your guns, if he did why
> >> didn't he go after them his first term. Liberals couldn't be more
> >> ignorant.
>
> > What you really object to is being held responsible for your guns:
>
> One can be perfectly responsible without registration.
>
> So why are you asking for that which isn't necessary?- Hide quoted text -
> >> Baxter wrote:
>
> >>> Under the 1934 National Firearms Act, the ATF is required to maintain a
> >>> registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other
> >>> weaponry favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
>
> >>> As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
> >>> registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
> >>> (http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary/)
>
> >>> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
>
> >>> A bit of trivia. There has never been a crime committed using a
> >>> registered machine gun.
>
> >> Of course not, they won't until the registry includes all guns. That's as
> >> dumb as people that said obama doesn't want your guns, if he did why
> >> didn't he go after them his first term. Liberals couldn't be more
> >> ignorant.
>
> > What you really object to is being held responsible for your guns:
>
> One can be perfectly responsible without registration.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
History shows that is not the case.
TMT
Bill Shatzer
Mar 31, 2013, 10:52:43 PM3/31/13
to
Wayne wrote:
> IIRC, the only assault rifles used in a crime in the US in the past 30
> years or so was the North Hollywood bank robbery.
Sandy Hook wasn't a crime!?
> IIRC, the only assault rifles used in a crime in the US in the past 30
> years or so was the North Hollywood bank robbery.
Ditto the Aurora movie theater and the DA and his wife in Kaufman
County, Texas and a history of other shootings too numerous to list
Incidently, so much for the theory that a good guy with a gun can stop a
bad guy with an assault rifle. The DA was apparently carrying.
Peace and justice,
Scout
Mar 31, 2013, 11:08:08 PM3/31/13
to
"Bill Shatzer" <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote in message
news:kjasli$iut$1...@dont-email.me...
> Wayne wrote:
>
>> IIRC, the only assault rifles used in a crime in the US in the past 30
>> years or so was the North Hollywood bank robbery.
>
> Sandy Hook wasn't a crime!?
Sure it was, and no assault rifle was used.
>
>> IIRC, the only assault rifles used in a crime in the US in the past 30
>> years or so was the North Hollywood bank robbery.
>
> Sandy Hook wasn't a crime!?
>
> Ditto the Aurora movie theater and the DA and his wife in Kaufman County,
> Texas and a history of other shootings too numerous to list
> Incidently, so much for the theory that a good guy with a gun can stop a
> bad guy with an assault rifle. The DA was apparently carrying.
PS, before you continue, you might want to check the contest of the
discussion or failing that, at least look up the definition of "assault
rifle".
Baxter
Apr 1, 2013, 2:02:12 AM4/1/13
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"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:kjarrp$epl$1...@dont-email.me...
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"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> news:kjainc$frr$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>
> news:kjainc$frr$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>
>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:kjae7r$79t$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>
>>>> What you really object to is being held responsible for your guns:
>>>
>>> One can be perfectly responsible without registration.
>>
>> Apparently not - machine guns must be registered, and the murder rate is
>> zero -- while handguns are not registered and there are 30 deaths from
>> guns every day.
>
> So, according to you when DC required all handguns to be
> registered....then absolutely no one was ever murdered using a handgun in
> the district?
>
Clearly doesn't work if you only do registration on a local level - that's
>> news:kjae7r$79t$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>
>>>> What you really object to is being held responsible for your guns:
>>>
>>> One can be perfectly responsible without registration.
>>
>> Apparently not - machine guns must be registered, and the murder rate is
>> zero -- while handguns are not registered and there are 30 deaths from
>> guns every day.
>
> So, according to you when DC required all handguns to be
> registered....then absolutely no one was ever murdered using a handgun in
> the district?
>
why sensible people advocate a national registry.
Baxter
Apr 1, 2013, 2:03:13 AM4/1/13
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"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:kjarsn$eub$1...@dont-email.me...
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"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
JohnJohnsn
Apr 1, 2013, 8:58:48 AM4/1/13
to
On Apr 1, 1:02 am, "Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote:
>
>
> [Confiscation] Clearly doesn't work if you only do registration on a
confiscation?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100626143039AAIVbUH
>
>
> [Confiscation] Clearly doesn't work if you only do registration on a
> local level - that's why sensible people advocate a national registry.
>
What are some examples of where gun registration lead to gun
>
confiscation?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100626143039AAIVbUH
JohnJohnsn
Apr 1, 2013, 9:02:31 AM4/1/13
to
On Apr 1, 1:03 am, "Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote:
>
>
>"Scout" <me4g...@verizonnet> wrote in message
> news:kjarsn$eub$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>>"Baxter" <baxter.spambl...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjair0$g0j$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>
>>> "Scout" <me4g...@verizonnet> wrote in message
>>> news:kjae9e$7ib$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>>>>"Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>
>
>"Scout" <me4g...@verizonnet> wrote in message
> news:kjarsn$eub$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>>"Baxter" <baxter.spambl...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjair0$g0j$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>
>>> "Scout" <me4g...@verizonnet> wrote in message
>>> news:kjae9e$7ib$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>>>>"Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kjac4i$t8t$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>>>>> Aren't *you* upset that the NRA is lying about gun confiscation?
>
>>>> Since they have occurred and the risk they will occur again is valid,
>>>> what exactly should I be upset about?
>
>>> None of those instances have occurred because of gun registration.
>
>> Better check again because they did.
>
> If they had, you'd have been able to give details.-
>
>>>>> Aren't *you* upset that the NRA is lying about gun confiscation?
>
>>>> Since they have occurred and the risk they will occur again is valid,
>>>> what exactly should I be upset about?
>
>>> None of those instances have occurred because of gun registration.
>
>> Better check again because they did.
>
Sancho Panza
Apr 1, 2013, 10:24:57 AM4/1/13
to
regular defender of the downtrodden, Harrumph!!!
"Hurricane Katrina survivor Patricia Konie files lawsuit against police.
Family, Friends, Firearms > Newsroom > Gun Laws / News / Rights >
Hurricane Katrina survivor Patricia Konie files lawsuit against police.
PDA
Incitatus1
12-14-2005, 09:18 PM
You remember the little lady shoved to the floor in her home...it was
shown on almost every TV cable news chanel. That nice little video image
from Katrina after Police Superintendent P. Edwin Compass III declared
no civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to carry pistols, shotguns
or other firearms.
"Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons"
Well Patricia has made her way back and has filed a lawsuit.
source:
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=58112
Hurricane Katrina Survivor Victimized Again: Injuries from Police Use of
Excessive Force Required Surgery
12/14/2005 8:00:00 AM
-----------------------------------------------------
To: National and State Desk
Contact: Ashton R. O'Dwyer, Jr., 504-561-6561
NEW ORLEANS, Dec. 14 /U.S. Newswire/ -- A New Orleans woman is
recovering from surgery this week from injuries resulting from when she
was roughed-up by authorities who forced her to leave her home a week
after Hurricane Katrina. Patricia Konie, 58, has filed a Federal lawsuit
over the injuries and other violations of civil rights.
"My client was severely injured in a needless removal from her home,"
stated attorney Ashton O'Dwyer. "Patricia Konie had food, plenty of
water, and a roof over her head. The police who illegally entered her
home and imposed their will on a frail, middle-aged female should have
been out apprehending armed, male looters instead."
Konie was greeting a reporter and photographer from a San Francisco TV
station and a journalist from the London Times when police unexpectedly
entered her home. When she refused to leave as ordered, they confiscated
a firearm used for defense and according to Konie, "slammed" her to the
ground, both displacing and fracturing her left shoulder.
After remaining in custody for several hours without charges being filed
against her by authorities, she was flown alone to South Carolina where
she remained for more than a month before returning to her native New
Orleans.
A Federal lawsuit was filed claiming that authorities assaulted and
knocked her to the ground when she refused to leave her New Orleans home
on September 7th, 2005. Konie also alleges numerous civil rights
violations including assault and battery by police in her suit against
several Louisiana and California State Police officers who took her into
custody. She also alleges authorities violated her Second Amendment
right to keep and bear arms.
"Hurricane Katrina was horrible, but there is no excuse for what
happened to this nice lady", said O'Dwyer. "Police caused her months of
pain and suffering and she still faces months of physical therapy. This
suit will hold the individuals responsible for their misdeeds."
Konie had her surgery early on Monday morning, December 12. She is still
recovering in the hospital, and lives alone on a limited budget of
Social Security benefits. She is devastated by what happened and has not
had her seized property returned.
"Sadly, Patricia Konie is only one of many examples of police going too
far in the wake of Hurricane Katrina," said O'Dwyer. "Already one court
has ruled against their strong-arm tactics, and we look forward to our
day in court." "
----
All for naught anyway. Here's is the upshot:
N.O. Woman Gets New Gun To Replace One Taken During Katrina
WRNO.com ^ | 10/22/2008
Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2008 10:27:17 AM by Oyarsa
A New Orleans woman whose gun was confiscated by law enforcement
officers in the days after Katrina, and who was injured during the
incident at her home, got a brand new 38-caliber revolver Wednesday,
courtesy of the Gun Owners of America.
61-year-old Patricia Konie says getting a new gun is a great idea
because now she's more afraid of police than she was before.
Konie says she was devastated when officers took her gun, but was even
more devastated when they tackled her to get the weapon, and in the
process broke her collarbone.
Congressman Steve Scalise and Larry Pratt, executive director of the Gun
Owners of America, presented the new gun to Konie. Scalise calls the gun
confiscation "a national tragedy".
"People all across this nation were shocked when they saw this actually
happened to a law-abiding American citizen in their home," Scalise said.
The incident led to a lawsuit filed by the National Rifle Association
and the Gun Owners of America for infringing on Konie's 2nd Amendment
rights. The suit was recently dropped after all sides agreed that
confiscated firearms would be returned to their owners.
Scalise and Pratt say the gun taken from Konie has never been returned."
And even though it took Holder and his Justice Department to get off
their asses, the final outcome has apparently not been resolved:
Feds investigate NOPD four years after Katrina; gun seizures should play
into case Politics September 8, 2009 By: Dave Workman
Policy & Issues newsletter
Four years after Hurricane Katrina wreaked havoc on the City of New
Orleans, leaving anarchy in its wake, the Department of Justice is
reportedly putting on a full court press investigation of the police in
that city, with the main focus being on two shooting incidents that left
three people dead.
Let�s be up front about this: Since the Second Amendment Foundation
and National Rifle Association (and nobody else!) stepped to file a
landmark federal lawsuit to stop authorities in New Orleans from
illegally seizing firearms in the hurricane�s aftermath, nobody has been
held accountable for that treachery. Now would be a good time for Barack
Obama and Eric Holder to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that they
respect the Second Amendment by ordering the FBI to find out who issued
the confiscation order, and bring them to justice, along with the
individual officers who behaved like goons. Their tactics reflected on
the thousands of good and decent police officers and sheriff�s deputies
all over the country who would never dream of acting without warrant and
abusing their authority, no matter what the emergency, and it created a
distrust of law enforcement at times of emergency that lingers today.
Privately, officers have groused that the feds are using strong-arm
tactics, not offering professional courtesy usually extended to fellow
law enforcement agencies.
Specifically, we are talking about the cops, apparently from New
York who seized, at gunpoint, two rifles from brothers Buell and Rodney
Teel on the waters of Lake Pontchartrain, and the Highway Patrolmen,
apparently from California, who body-slammed frail Patricia Konie in her
own home just to take away from her the vintage Colt revolver she showed
them to prove she could take care of herself. She was hurt so badly by
that physical assault that she required surgery.
Right now, NOPD officers are in the crosshairs of this federal
probe, and some have complained to the New Orleans Times-Picayune about
the "strong-arm tactics" being used by the feds. Well, nobody is forcing
them to testify at gunpoint, nor has anyone been physically assaulted. A
whine like that is going to fall on deaf ears among New Orleans citizens
who were forcibly stripped of their private property.
Mary Howell, a New Orleans attorney representing (one victim's)
family in a civil rights suit against city officials, said Monday she
understands the Justice Department is investigating several incidents
involving the Police Department in the days after Katrina, including the
bridge shooting.
Ever since then-Police Superintendent Eddie Compass announced to
reporters that nobody but police would have guns, Second Amendment
activists have wanted to know who issued that unconstitutional order. A
few years ago when I was debating the travesty on a New Orleans talk
show with Compass� successor, Supt. Warren Riley, he dodged the direct
question when I told him on-air that I wanted to know who issued the
order. To him, it wasn�t important. To millions of outraged American gun
owners, it is of critical importance. As my press colleagues are so fond
of stating, the public has a right to know.
Simply because there is a natural or man-made disaster, one does not
suspend the constitution, or state statute. We�re not talking about just
the Second Amendment, but also the Fourth.
More than 1,000 firearms were illegally seized by the police and
National Guard troopers, without warrant or probable cause, and with no
legal authority under existing statute.
Ginny Simone, a gutsy news anchor for NRA News, put together a video
report that today ought to be required viewing for any public official
who thinks that in an emergency, he or she becomes a reigning monarch.
It is a segment that fully explains the outrage gun owners feel toward
the Ray Nagin administration and why, even today, millions of Americans
continue their boycott of the Crescent City. They will not travel there,
buy goods from there or suggest to anyone else to visit the city.
If Nagin thinks that is unfair, too bad. His administration ignored,
stonewalled and outright lied about the gun confiscations until
attorneys representing SAF and NRA headed to court with a contempt
citation. The city obfuscated for more than a year about those guns, by
which time they were in such disrepair that they were worthless. Even
after the case was finally settled, New Orleans authorities seemed to
drag their feet. Upon investigation, many of the guns were found to have
been deliberately damaged.
The FBI is understandably mum on where this investigation may lead;
the agency does not discuss on-going cases. The fear is that this civil
rights probe will stop with the two fatal shooting incidents, and that
those responsible for what authors Gordon Hutchinson and Todd Masson
called The Great New Orleans Gun Grab will escape accountability.
In the wake of the Katrina debacle, which SAF founder Alan Gottlieb
called a �Constitutional outrage,� several state legislatures adopted
laws that specifically prohibit the kind of gun confiscations that
occurred. Over the past four years, I�ve heard from various street cops
and even a couple of county sheriffs who would, they promise, ignore
such orders if they were ever given."
And Konie was far from an unusual violation:
"Gun Confiscation
The video you will see on this web site is horrifying. The crimes
committed against law-abiding gun owners are beyond comprehension. The
arrogance of anti-gun politicians and government officials and their
hate of freedom will churn your stomach.
The law is the law, the Constitution is the Constitution. If ONE local
mayor or police chief can decide what the Second Amendment means, it
opens the door to tyranny where ANY mayor or police chief can say what
the Second Amendment means.
That�s why we are asking your support to help guarantee that all
firearms confiscated by New Orleans Mayor Nagin and Police
Superintendent Compass are immediately returned to our fellow gun owners.
With your help we�re going to make the first time in New Orleans the
LAST time in America.
Lighting the Fuse�
Gun ConfiscationYou have seen this brand of abuse of freedom in the
history books in the pages about days of gun confiscations leading to
the terror of Stalin, Mao and Hitler. But you have never in a million
years think it could happen in America.
Well, it can and it did. And it will happen again unless we take action
today.
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Police Superintendent P. Eddie Compass
unleashed a wave of confiscations with these chilling words:
�No one will be able to be armed. We will take all weapons. Only law
enforcement will be allowed to have guns.�
Thousands of firearms were then confiscated from law-abiding gun owners.
The police gave no paperwork or receipts for those guns. They just
stormed in and seized them.
My Bible and My Gun
Please listen to the story of Marie Galadis, a Baptist Minister, who was
left alone to face roving bands of looters, robbers and murderers.
You never saw this footage and you never will see it on ABC, NBC or CBS.
You never will see the photos or read about these crimes in The New York
Times, The Washington Post or any of the major dailies.
The anti-gun media does not want you to see it because it will prove
that everything they have been saying about how politicians and
bureaucrats can be trusted to protect your Second Amendment rights IS A LIE.
Brutally Disarmed
Take a look at the unbelievable violence caught by Fox News when police
entered the residence of Patricia Konie, and demanded that she evacuate
her home.
You will see them body-slam this tiny woman into a wall, sending dishes
flying, then confiscate her firearm and drag her from her home.
Worst of all, Patricia�s gun is still locked away in Mayor Ray Nagin�s
trailers. And just recently, Patricia was robbed in her home! For
Patricia and every other gun owner, we need to fight back NOW.
Victim�s Voices
You are totally cut off from the world. Armed, predatory gangs are
roaming the streets and committing serial violent felonies at will. No
911 and police are AWOL. It is up to you to defend your family and your
home, or even prevent a murder or a rape.
More than a week later, when police and National Guard troops finally
arrive, you feel relief� Until they make it clear that they have come
NOT to help you but to confiscate your guns under sweeping �emergency
powers� laws.
As hard to believe as it sounds, the situation I am describing is
exactly what law-abiding citizens of New Orleans faced � just days after
Hurricane Katrina struck!!!
NRA FIGHTS BACK
Now, one year later, these crimes against gun owners have snowballed
into a far greater threat to our freedoms.
Even though NRA secured a court order demanding their immediate and
unconditional return, almost every single confiscated firearm remains
locked in government trailers.
With the stroke of a pen, Mayor Nagin and Police Superintendent Compass
are getting away with savaging of the second, fourth, and fourteenth
amendments of our Constitution. And they have put America on notice that
they are going to keep seizing lawfully owned guns under any pretense.
You�ll Never See Your Guns Again
New Orleans gun owners are showing up at these trailers, with serial
numbers of their firearms, expecting Mayor Nagin and his band of
anti-gunners to respect the Federal courts.
They are met by stony-eyed bureaucrats who say serial numbers are not
enough and that gun owners now need PROOF OF PURCHASE of these firearms.
How many of those gun owners do you think had original receipts for
those firearms? And even if they did, how many do you think could find
those receipts in the wreckage of a hurricane?
Many of these firearms were passed down from father to son, generation
to generation. Some are precious heirlooms. Some are collector�s pieces
won in our wars. And they were all lawfully owned and they must be
returned to their owners." --http://www.givethemback.com/
Baxter
Apr 1, 2013, 10:34:12 AM4/1/13
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"JohnJohnsn" <TopCo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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news:9dcc87b4-0b7e-4025...@u20g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
confiscation of ALL guns from citizens at gun point by jack-booted Storm
Troopers, while the reality is a few isolated instances of requiring turn in
of specific weapons, seizure of guns from ex-felons, and the like.
SaPeIsMa
Apr 1, 2013, 11:22:15 AM4/1/13
to
"John" <john...@oldwest.net> wrote in message
where traditionally people have far more trust in their government than the
people in the US
We can expect far less compliance with such a registry
Instead we can expect people to get together and start building more of
their guns themselves.
news:GbCdnXbensyqDsXM...@earthlink.com...
> Baxter wrote:
>
>> Under the 1934 National Firearms Act, the ATF is required to maintain a
>> registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other
>> weaponry favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
>>
>> As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
>> registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
>> (http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary/)
>>
> Baxter wrote:
>
>> Under the 1934 National Firearms Act, the ATF is required to maintain a
>> registry of machine guns, sawed-off shotguns, silencers and other
>> weaponry favored by Prohibition-era gangsters.
>>
>> As of November 2006, the national registry of machine guns contained
>> registrations for 391,532 machine guns.
>> (http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-guns-automatic-firearms-policy-summary/)
>>
>> If what the NRA says is true, why haven't these weapons been seized?
>>
>>
>> A bit of trivia. There has never been a crime committed using a
>> registered machine gun.
>>
>
> Of course not, they won't until the registry includes all guns. That's as
> dumb as people that said obama doesn't want your guns, if he did why
> didn't he go after them his first term. Liberals couldn't be more
> ignorant.
If we look at the success of the Long Gun Registry in Canada, a country
>> registered machine gun.
>>
>
> Of course not, they won't until the registry includes all guns. That's as
> dumb as people that said obama doesn't want your guns, if he did why
> didn't he go after them his first term. Liberals couldn't be more
> ignorant.
where traditionally people have far more trust in their government than the
people in the US
We can expect far less compliance with such a registry
Instead we can expect people to get together and start building more of
their guns themselves.
Sancho Panza
Apr 1, 2013, 11:37:31 AM4/1/13
to
JohnJohnsn
Apr 1, 2013, 12:03:39 PM4/1/13
to
On Apr 1, 9:34 am, "Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote:
>
>
>"JohnJohnsn" <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
--George Santayana (1863-1952), Reason in Common Sense,
volume 1 of The Life of Reason (1905)
>
> ...while the reality is a few isolated instances of requiring turn in
laws, "felons" were prohibited from owning firearms AFTER they had
"paid their debt to society," Bax?
In fact; back in those "Wild West" days, when a prisoner was released
from the territorial or state prison, his gun(s) was(were) returned to
him by the prison authorities.
Well, Bax: it's a _lot_ "wilder" today than it was back then!
Just witness "Wild, Wild Chitown" and it's draconian gun control laws.
Meanwhile; closer to YOUR home:
Oregon gun battle: Rights versus gun control
Reported by: Thomas Jordan
Email: thomas...@kmtr.com
Published: 2/21 10:49 am
Updated: 2/28 5:07 am
LANE COUNTY, Ore. (KMTR) - TThe battle over gun rights versus gun
control heats up in Oregon and one man who served in the U.S. Army
says he refuses to give up his rights.
After the tragic shooting at Clackamas Town Center outside Portland
and a recent second amendment rally in Salem, Oregon is now trying to
put a ban on all assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.
Don Espy is a proud American and a United States Army veteran. He
lives in an area where he hunts to put food on the table and, if
needed, would use his guns to protect his family.
If Congress enforces laws preventing him from providing for his
family, he says he is prepared to face the consequences. "I fought for
a lot of people I didn't know - Republicans, Democrats. I still stuck
my life on the line because I love America," said Espy.
That love for the stars and stripes is fueling his fire in the ongoing
gun debate raging across the country. "It is their God-given right to
state what they want or have what they want to have," said Espy.
It is his Second Amendment right and one he refuses to let go,
regardless of the law. "I'll stick beside the National Rifle
Association for the rest of my life. I'll fight for my right," said
Espy.
The gauntlet has already been thrown down.
"A Second Amendment right does not trump my First Amendment right to
free speech and democracy," said Executive Director of Ceasefire
Oregon, Penny Okamoto.
During a recent rally in Salem, Okamoto told KMTR NewsSource 16 she's
not looking for guns to be taken away, but does want change.
"A ban on high-capacity magazines [of] more than ten bullets and a ban
on assault weapons, which would be semi-automatics," said Okamoto.
She is also in favor of universal background checks and keeping kids
and the community safe.
"If a minor accesses a weapon without parental permission, then the
gun owner is going to be held criminally responsible," said Okamoto.
These bills are currently being introduced while others are still in
legislative council. That being said, Espy will not give up his right
to bear arms. He is free to choose his own path, but he can’t choose
the consequences that come with it.
Under the bill prohibiting high-capacity ammunition magazines,
violators could go to jail for a up to a year and face a fine of more
than $6,000.
The bill prohibiting assault weapons is still being drafted, so it's
unclear what the potential penalties will be.
NewsSource 16 spoke with the Lane County Sheriffs’ Office about how
they would enforce these new laws if passed.
Sheriff Tom Turner released a statement saying he has taken an oath to
uphold the Constitution and Oregon state law and that he'll follow new
gun laws while asking for the community's cooperation.
Despite this, Espy is not afraid and not deterred. He says it’s not
the gun that kills people, it is people who kill people. "The number
one issue is the mentally ill. That is the number one issue they need
to focus on," said Espy.
It could be months - even years - before Oregon sees any gun law
changes. When push comes to shove, Espy will protect and provide for
the ones he loves, just as he did while serving in the military.
Espy isn't the only one rebelling; there have also been reports of
sheriff offices around Oregon that plan on following their own orders
instead of President Obama's Executive Order.
-30-
http://www.kmtr.com/news/local/story/Oregon-gun-battle-Rights-versus-gun-control/1EzTZFstsUeydlxDb1irBw.cspx
The problem here with the "mentally ill" aspect is the Democrats'
ongoing attempts to depict all GWOTE military personnel as being
afflicted with PTSD and, therefore, too "mentally ill" to be able to
even HAVE 2nd Amendment Right(s) to Keep and Bear Arms any longer.
Combine that with the Democrats ongoing propensity to make EVERYTHING
a "felony" ("You abbrevisted "Texas" as TX on that ATF Form 4473, so
you're a FELON for `Filing a False Statement'!") and next thing you
know, "only the police and military have the Right to Keep and Bear
Arms."
“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.”
--Joseph Heller, `Catch 22'
---
“I don't believe people should be able to own guns.”
---"Professor" Barack Hussein Obama, University of Chicago Law School
“If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States
for
an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs.
America,
turn 'em all in, I would have done it.”
--U.S. Senator (D-CA) Dianne Emiel Goldman Berman Feinstein [Blum],
CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995, speaking about her original
`Assault Weapos Ban of 1994'
“Semi-automatic Assault Weapons: the modern-day `musket' of the
Founding Fathers”
--Me, 13 Mar 2013
>
>
>"JohnJohnsn" <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:9dcc87b4-0b7e-4025...@u20g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>
>> On Apr 1, 1:03 am, "Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote:
>
>>>"Scout" <me4g...@verizonnet> wrote in message
>>> news:kjarsn$eub$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>>>>"Baxter" <baxter.spambl...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kjair0$g0j$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>>>>>"Scout" <me4g...@verizonnet> wrote in message
>>>>> news:kjae9e$7ib$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>>>>>>"Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:kjac4i$t8t$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>>>>>>> Aren't *you* upset that the NRA is lying about gun confiscation?
>
>>>>>> Since they have occurred and the risk they will occur again is valid,
>>>>>> what exactly should I be upset about?
>
>>>>> None of those instances have occurred because of gun registration.
>
>>>> Better check again because they did.
>
>>> If they had, you'd have been able to give details.-
>
>> What are some examples of where gun registration lead to gun confiscation?
>> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100626143039AAIVbUH
>
> NRA and gun fondlers paint of picture of a nazi-style police state and the
> confiscation of ALL guns from citizens at gun point by jack-booted Storm
> Troopers...
>
>> On Apr 1, 1:03 am, "Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote:
>
>>>"Scout" <me4g...@verizonnet> wrote in message
>>> news:kjarsn$eub$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>>>>"Baxter" <baxter.spambl...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kjair0$g0j$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>>>>>"Scout" <me4g...@verizonnet> wrote in message
>>>>> news:kjae9e$7ib$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>>>>>>"Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:kjac4i$t8t$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>>>>>>> Aren't *you* upset that the NRA is lying about gun confiscation?
>
>>>>>> Since they have occurred and the risk they will occur again is valid,
>>>>>> what exactly should I be upset about?
>
>>>>> None of those instances have occurred because of gun registration.
>
>>>> Better check again because they did.
>
>>> If they had, you'd have been able to give details.-
>
>> What are some examples of where gun registration lead to gun confiscation?
>> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100626143039AAIVbUH
>
> NRA and gun fondlers paint of picture of a nazi-style police state and the
> confiscation of ALL guns from citizens at gun point by jack-booted Storm
>
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
--George Santayana (1863-1952), Reason in Common Sense,
volume 1 of The Life of Reason (1905)
>
> ...while the reality is a few isolated instances of requiring turn in
> of specific weapons, seizure of guns from ex-felons, and the like.
>
Care to show us where, prior to the 20th century federal gun control
>
laws, "felons" were prohibited from owning firearms AFTER they had
"paid their debt to society," Bax?
In fact; back in those "Wild West" days, when a prisoner was released
from the territorial or state prison, his gun(s) was(were) returned to
him by the prison authorities.
Well, Bax: it's a _lot_ "wilder" today than it was back then!
Just witness "Wild, Wild Chitown" and it's draconian gun control laws.
Meanwhile; closer to YOUR home:
Oregon gun battle: Rights versus gun control
Reported by: Thomas Jordan
Email: thomas...@kmtr.com
Published: 2/21 10:49 am
Updated: 2/28 5:07 am
LANE COUNTY, Ore. (KMTR) - TThe battle over gun rights versus gun
control heats up in Oregon and one man who served in the U.S. Army
says he refuses to give up his rights.
After the tragic shooting at Clackamas Town Center outside Portland
and a recent second amendment rally in Salem, Oregon is now trying to
put a ban on all assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.
Don Espy is a proud American and a United States Army veteran. He
lives in an area where he hunts to put food on the table and, if
needed, would use his guns to protect his family.
If Congress enforces laws preventing him from providing for his
family, he says he is prepared to face the consequences. "I fought for
a lot of people I didn't know - Republicans, Democrats. I still stuck
my life on the line because I love America," said Espy.
That love for the stars and stripes is fueling his fire in the ongoing
gun debate raging across the country. "It is their God-given right to
state what they want or have what they want to have," said Espy.
It is his Second Amendment right and one he refuses to let go,
regardless of the law. "I'll stick beside the National Rifle
Association for the rest of my life. I'll fight for my right," said
Espy.
The gauntlet has already been thrown down.
"A Second Amendment right does not trump my First Amendment right to
free speech and democracy," said Executive Director of Ceasefire
Oregon, Penny Okamoto.
During a recent rally in Salem, Okamoto told KMTR NewsSource 16 she's
not looking for guns to be taken away, but does want change.
"A ban on high-capacity magazines [of] more than ten bullets and a ban
on assault weapons, which would be semi-automatics," said Okamoto.
She is also in favor of universal background checks and keeping kids
and the community safe.
"If a minor accesses a weapon without parental permission, then the
gun owner is going to be held criminally responsible," said Okamoto.
These bills are currently being introduced while others are still in
legislative council. That being said, Espy will not give up his right
to bear arms. He is free to choose his own path, but he can’t choose
the consequences that come with it.
Under the bill prohibiting high-capacity ammunition magazines,
violators could go to jail for a up to a year and face a fine of more
than $6,000.
The bill prohibiting assault weapons is still being drafted, so it's
unclear what the potential penalties will be.
NewsSource 16 spoke with the Lane County Sheriffs’ Office about how
they would enforce these new laws if passed.
Sheriff Tom Turner released a statement saying he has taken an oath to
uphold the Constitution and Oregon state law and that he'll follow new
gun laws while asking for the community's cooperation.
Despite this, Espy is not afraid and not deterred. He says it’s not
the gun that kills people, it is people who kill people. "The number
one issue is the mentally ill. That is the number one issue they need
to focus on," said Espy.
It could be months - even years - before Oregon sees any gun law
changes. When push comes to shove, Espy will protect and provide for
the ones he loves, just as he did while serving in the military.
Espy isn't the only one rebelling; there have also been reports of
sheriff offices around Oregon that plan on following their own orders
instead of President Obama's Executive Order.
-30-
http://www.kmtr.com/news/local/story/Oregon-gun-battle-Rights-versus-gun-control/1EzTZFstsUeydlxDb1irBw.cspx
The problem here with the "mentally ill" aspect is the Democrats'
ongoing attempts to depict all GWOTE military personnel as being
afflicted with PTSD and, therefore, too "mentally ill" to be able to
even HAVE 2nd Amendment Right(s) to Keep and Bear Arms any longer.
Combine that with the Democrats ongoing propensity to make EVERYTHING
a "felony" ("You abbrevisted "Texas" as TX on that ATF Form 4473, so
you're a FELON for `Filing a False Statement'!") and next thing you
know, "only the police and military have the Right to Keep and Bear
Arms."
“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.”
--Joseph Heller, `Catch 22'
---
“I don't believe people should be able to own guns.”
---"Professor" Barack Hussein Obama, University of Chicago Law School
“If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States
for
an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs.
America,
turn 'em all in, I would have done it.”
--U.S. Senator (D-CA) Dianne Emiel Goldman Berman Feinstein [Blum],
CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995, speaking about her original
`Assault Weapos Ban of 1994'
“Semi-automatic Assault Weapons: the modern-day `musket' of the
Founding Fathers”
--Me, 13 Mar 2013
Sancho Panza
Apr 1, 2013, 12:19:59 PM4/1/13
to
>> The reality is a few isolated instances of requiring turn in
reason why he can't go back to his home and has to run to the Bahamas,
Hawaii, Martha's Vineyard, anywhere but the uninhabitable and obviously
uncontrollable craphole that he helped create and foster:
"Nearly 30 arrested in Mag Mile melee
By Jeremy Gorner, Adam Sege and Rosemary Regina Sobol Tribune reporters
9:14 a.m. CDT, April 1, 2013
The woman works at a restaurant and rides the "L" all the time and had
never been afraid on the trains. But then she found herself in the
middle of one of two disturbances by groups of teens on the North Side
over the weekend.
"I've never been scared like this before," said the 27-year-old woman,
who asked not to be identified. "We were just minding our own business.
... It was really, really violent."
The woman said she was returning home with her mother Saturday night on
the Red Line after a dim sum dinner when a group of girls got on the
train at the Monroe station and appeared to want to pick a fight.
"This girl started blowing smoke in my face, and she flicked her
cigarette ashes at me," said the woman. "I said: 'You need to put that
out,' and the next thing I know there's all these girls that jumped on
top of us."
They began punching her face and then went for her hair. She believes
they had knives or box cutters, and padlocks possibly placed inside socks.
"I put my head down between my legs so they would stop beating me in the
face, but they were trying to pull my face up and hit me more," she
said. "They ripped out chunks of my hair, and I've got a black eye and
bruises on my face, and all over my back and shoulder."
The woman said the attack happened between two stations while the train
was moving. "There was nobody to help. There was no time, really. We
were surrounded, it happened in one stop, and then they got off the next
stop, at Lake," she said.
As the train stopped, the group grabbed her purse, ran off and jumped
the turnstile, she said. The woman ran after them, though, and
eventually got her purse back and went to the police station to press
charges.
Eleven teenagers were arrested around 6:35 p.m. Stephanie Hosch, 18, of
1300 block of North Central Avenue, was charged with two counts of
misdemeanor battery. Ten juveniles were charged with battery, and two of
them were also charged with strong-arm robbery, Chicago Police
Department News Affairs Officer Veejay Zala said.
The 11 teens told police they had agreed on Twitter to meet downtown. It
appeared that several of those arrested had not met before Saturday,
authorities said.
About an hour later, 17 people were arrested after they allegedly bumped
into other people on the sidewalks, blocked sidewalks and traffic on the
street and started fights among themselves on the Magnificent Mile near
North Michigan Avenue and East Huron Street. No injuries were reported.
All but two of the 17 charged were younger than 18. The two adults are
Bobby K. Rhodes, 19, of the 1100 block of North Cambridge Avenue, and
Marquell Hicks, 18, of the 3200 block of West Diversey Avenue, police
said. They were all charged with misdemeanor reckless conduct."
and
"Teen Mob Action Takes Over Chicago�s Gold Coast
March 30, 2013 8:39 PM
(CBS) � The warmest day of the year so far brings hundreds of
mischievous teens to Michigan Avenue. Police are calling it �mob action�.
CBS 2 is learning about multiple incidents in at least four different
locations along the Magnificent Mile and in the Gold Coast, yielding a
slew of arrests.
Things got pretty bad, very quickly with many innocent shoppers and
tourists caught in the middle of a very chaotic situation. Hundreds of
teens littered Michigan Avenue and State Street near Chicago. Things
started to go bad around 6:00 p.m. Saturday, with teens purposely
bumping into people, and causing fights among themselves. Fifteen
juveniles and two adults were arrested and charged with Reckless
Conduct� a misdemeanor.
Community activist, Andrew Holmes witnessed some of the problems, while
shopping with his family. �You had a group of teens, close to maybe 500.
They assaulted a Chicago police officer that was on a mounted on a horse
and all of a sudden they assaulted a citizen walking the streets, just a
normal citizen shopping and enjoying the weather,� said Holmes.
Later that night, a man was attacked around 10:45 p.m. while walking
near Chicago and Dearborn. Sources tell us he was jumped and punched in
the face by a group of teens. He was taken to Northwestern Memorial
Hospital. In a separate incident, a group of woman say they were
attacked by a mob of girls on the CTA Red Line. The women reported a
robbery once they got off the train at the State and Monroe station.
Eleven females were arrested�10 juveniles and one adult�and charged with
battery. Two of the teens were charged with strong- armed robbery.
�I caution those parents if their child has been arrested which numerous
teenagers have been arrested tonight, that you need to think about your
child. Just don�t say the Chicago police picked on your child, when we
were watching all the assault going on, especially by teen women,� said
Holmes.
A total of 28 arrests were made last night surrounding downtown
disturbances involving teens. Of those arrests, 25 were juveniles.
Charges range from Battery and Strong Armed Robbery to Reckless Conduct.
CBS 2 has learned since these charges are misdemeanors, many of those
arrested have already been released on I-bonds.
Sources tell CBS 2 that much of this activity was planned weeks ago
through social media."
>> of specific weapons, seizure of guns from ex-felons, and the like.
>>
> Care to show us where, prior to the 20th century federal gun control
> laws, "felons" were prohibited from owning firearms AFTER they had
> "paid their debt to society," Bax?
>
> In fact; back in those "Wild West" days, when a prisoner was released
> from the territorial or state prison, his gun(s) was(were) returned to
> him by the prison authorities.
>
> Well, Bax: it's a _lot_ "wilder" today than it was back then!
>
> Just witness "Wild, Wild Chitown" and it's draconian gun control laws.
>
> Meanwhile; closer to YOUR home:
It's almost more significant to stick with Obama's hometown and the
>>
> Care to show us where, prior to the 20th century federal gun control
> laws, "felons" were prohibited from owning firearms AFTER they had
> "paid their debt to society," Bax?
>
> In fact; back in those "Wild West" days, when a prisoner was released
> from the territorial or state prison, his gun(s) was(were) returned to
> him by the prison authorities.
>
> Well, Bax: it's a _lot_ "wilder" today than it was back then!
>
> Just witness "Wild, Wild Chitown" and it's draconian gun control laws.
>
> Meanwhile; closer to YOUR home:
reason why he can't go back to his home and has to run to the Bahamas,
Hawaii, Martha's Vineyard, anywhere but the uninhabitable and obviously
uncontrollable craphole that he helped create and foster:
"Nearly 30 arrested in Mag Mile melee
By Jeremy Gorner, Adam Sege and Rosemary Regina Sobol Tribune reporters
9:14 a.m. CDT, April 1, 2013
The woman works at a restaurant and rides the "L" all the time and had
never been afraid on the trains. But then she found herself in the
middle of one of two disturbances by groups of teens on the North Side
over the weekend.
"I've never been scared like this before," said the 27-year-old woman,
who asked not to be identified. "We were just minding our own business.
... It was really, really violent."
The woman said she was returning home with her mother Saturday night on
the Red Line after a dim sum dinner when a group of girls got on the
train at the Monroe station and appeared to want to pick a fight.
"This girl started blowing smoke in my face, and she flicked her
cigarette ashes at me," said the woman. "I said: 'You need to put that
out,' and the next thing I know there's all these girls that jumped on
top of us."
They began punching her face and then went for her hair. She believes
they had knives or box cutters, and padlocks possibly placed inside socks.
"I put my head down between my legs so they would stop beating me in the
face, but they were trying to pull my face up and hit me more," she
said. "They ripped out chunks of my hair, and I've got a black eye and
bruises on my face, and all over my back and shoulder."
The woman said the attack happened between two stations while the train
was moving. "There was nobody to help. There was no time, really. We
were surrounded, it happened in one stop, and then they got off the next
stop, at Lake," she said.
As the train stopped, the group grabbed her purse, ran off and jumped
the turnstile, she said. The woman ran after them, though, and
eventually got her purse back and went to the police station to press
charges.
Eleven teenagers were arrested around 6:35 p.m. Stephanie Hosch, 18, of
1300 block of North Central Avenue, was charged with two counts of
misdemeanor battery. Ten juveniles were charged with battery, and two of
them were also charged with strong-arm robbery, Chicago Police
Department News Affairs Officer Veejay Zala said.
The 11 teens told police they had agreed on Twitter to meet downtown. It
appeared that several of those arrested had not met before Saturday,
authorities said.
About an hour later, 17 people were arrested after they allegedly bumped
into other people on the sidewalks, blocked sidewalks and traffic on the
street and started fights among themselves on the Magnificent Mile near
North Michigan Avenue and East Huron Street. No injuries were reported.
All but two of the 17 charged were younger than 18. The two adults are
Bobby K. Rhodes, 19, of the 1100 block of North Cambridge Avenue, and
Marquell Hicks, 18, of the 3200 block of West Diversey Avenue, police
said. They were all charged with misdemeanor reckless conduct."
and
"Teen Mob Action Takes Over Chicago�s Gold Coast
March 30, 2013 8:39 PM
(CBS) � The warmest day of the year so far brings hundreds of
mischievous teens to Michigan Avenue. Police are calling it �mob action�.
CBS 2 is learning about multiple incidents in at least four different
locations along the Magnificent Mile and in the Gold Coast, yielding a
slew of arrests.
Things got pretty bad, very quickly with many innocent shoppers and
tourists caught in the middle of a very chaotic situation. Hundreds of
teens littered Michigan Avenue and State Street near Chicago. Things
started to go bad around 6:00 p.m. Saturday, with teens purposely
bumping into people, and causing fights among themselves. Fifteen
juveniles and two adults were arrested and charged with Reckless
Conduct� a misdemeanor.
Community activist, Andrew Holmes witnessed some of the problems, while
shopping with his family. �You had a group of teens, close to maybe 500.
They assaulted a Chicago police officer that was on a mounted on a horse
and all of a sudden they assaulted a citizen walking the streets, just a
normal citizen shopping and enjoying the weather,� said Holmes.
Later that night, a man was attacked around 10:45 p.m. while walking
near Chicago and Dearborn. Sources tell us he was jumped and punched in
the face by a group of teens. He was taken to Northwestern Memorial
Hospital. In a separate incident, a group of woman say they were
attacked by a mob of girls on the CTA Red Line. The women reported a
robbery once they got off the train at the State and Monroe station.
Eleven females were arrested�10 juveniles and one adult�and charged with
battery. Two of the teens were charged with strong- armed robbery.
�I caution those parents if their child has been arrested which numerous
teenagers have been arrested tonight, that you need to think about your
child. Just don�t say the Chicago police picked on your child, when we
were watching all the assault going on, especially by teen women,� said
Holmes.
A total of 28 arrests were made last night surrounding downtown
disturbances involving teens. Of those arrests, 25 were juveniles.
Charges range from Battery and Strong Armed Robbery to Reckless Conduct.
CBS 2 has learned since these charges are misdemeanors, many of those
arrested have already been released on I-bonds.
Sources tell CBS 2 that much of this activity was planned weeks ago
through social media."
Baxter
Apr 1, 2013, 2:29:40 PM4/1/13
to
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"JohnJohnsn" <TopCo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b5641810-68ae-4b44...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"JohnJohnsn" <TopCo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>On Apr 1, 9:34 am, "Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote:
>> ...while the reality is a few isolated instances of requiring turn in
>> of specific weapons, seizure of guns from ex-felons, and the like.
>>
>Care to show us where, prior to the 20th century federal gun control
>laws, "felons" were prohibited from owning firearms AFTER they had
>"paid their debt to society," Bax?
>
>In fact; back in those "Wild West" days, when a prisoner was released
>from the territorial or state prison, his gun(s) was(were) returned to
>him by the prison authorities.
And we learned that was not a good idea.
>> ...while the reality is a few isolated instances of requiring turn in
>> of specific weapons, seizure of guns from ex-felons, and the like.
>>
>Care to show us where, prior to the 20th century federal gun control
>laws, "felons" were prohibited from owning firearms AFTER they had
>"paid their debt to society," Bax?
>
>In fact; back in those "Wild West" days, when a prisoner was released
>from the territorial or state prison, his gun(s) was(were) returned to
>him by the prison authorities.
Scout
Apr 1, 2013, 5:20:49 PM4/1/13
to
news:kjb7u7$rem$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
I see, so when your claims are refuted, don't accept your ignorance, simply
call for more of what failed and claim that will make you right.
call for more of what failed and claim that will make you right.
Scout
Apr 1, 2013, 5:21:29 PM4/1/13
to
news:kjb7u9$rem$2...@speranza.aioe.org...
Already provided to you and ignored by you.
So why should I waste my time giving them to you yet again?
So why should I waste my time giving them to you yet again?
Scout
Apr 1, 2013, 5:22:20 PM4/1/13
to
news:kjc5s9$i1r$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Translation: Baxter admits that gun registration has been used in gun
confiscations.
confiscations.
Scout
Apr 1, 2013, 5:23:19 PM4/1/13
to
news:kjcjl9$3b2$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Cites.
JohnJohnsn
Apr 1, 2013, 5:34:47 PM4/1/13
to
On Apr 1, 1:29 pm, "Baxter" <baxter.@baxcode.com> wrote:
>
>
>"JohnJohnsn" <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>
>"JohnJohnsn" <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b5641810-68ae-4b44...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
>
>> On Apr 1, 9:34 am, "Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote:
>
>>> ...while the reality is a few isolated instances of requiring turn in
>>> of specific weapons, seizure of guns from ex-felons, and the like.
>
>> Care to show us where, prior to the 20th century federal gun control
>> laws, "felons" were prohibited from owning firearms AFTER they had
>>"paid their debt to society," Bax?
>
>> In fact; back in those "Wild West" days, when a prisoner was released
>> from the territorial or state prison, his gun(s) was(were) returned to
>> him by the prison authorities.
>
> And we learned that was not a good idea.
>
"ASSUmes `Facts' not in evidence," Baxter.
>
>> On Apr 1, 9:34 am, "Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote:
>
>>> ...while the reality is a few isolated instances of requiring turn in
>>> of specific weapons, seizure of guns from ex-felons, and the like.
>
>> Care to show us where, prior to the 20th century federal gun control
>> laws, "felons" were prohibited from owning firearms AFTER they had
>>"paid their debt to society," Bax?
>
>> In fact; back in those "Wild West" days, when a prisoner was released
>> from the territorial or state prison, his gun(s) was(were) returned to
>> him by the prison authorities.
>
> And we learned that was not a good idea.
>
deep
Apr 1, 2013, 5:54:20 PM4/1/13
to
Virginia ring a bell?
>ROTFLMAO....
>
>Are you out to prove you are stupid, or is it you simply can't avoid showing
>your stupidity?
>
huge difference between machine guns being federally registered, and
guns in DC only being registered in the district. Now think hard,
what barrier is there to getting a registered MG vs getting a handgun
in DC? Come on, think really hard.
deep
Apr 1, 2013, 5:58:16 PM4/1/13
to
He's trying to make you see the effectiveness of a NATIONAL registry,
which would make it very difficult to find regulated guns without
black market contacts. Patchwork registration at the state level
clearly is ineffective because all someone needs do is drive over the
state line to the nearest gunshow. Get it yet dumbass?
deep
Apr 1, 2013, 6:04:34 PM4/1/13
to
I'm thinking I know what lies you're going to spew now. Go ahead,
prove me right again.
Scout
Apr 1, 2013, 6:26:26 PM4/1/13
to
"deep" wrote in message news:321kl8hma7gpnbia3...@4ax.com...
returned their firearms and the homicide rates that existed.
As such, your cite is worthless.
Scout
Apr 1, 2013, 6:29:17 PM4/1/13
to
"deep" wrote in message news:s90kl8hhroolf63qa...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 22:38:55 -0400, "Scout"
> <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>news:kjainc$frr$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>> -
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:kjae7r$79t$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>
>>>>> What you really object to is being held responsible for your guns:
>>>>
>>>> One can be perfectly responsible without registration.
>>>
>>> Apparently not - machine guns must be registered, and the murder rate is
>>> zero -- while handguns are not registered and there are 30 deaths from
>>> guns every day.
>>
>>So, according to you when DC required all handguns to be
>>registered....then
>>absolutely no one was ever murdered using a handgun in the district?
>>
>
> Where do you think criminals in DC get their guns?
But according to Baxter registration is enough to eliminate all murders by
> <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>news:kjainc$frr$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>> -
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:kjae7r$79t$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>
>>>>> What you really object to is being held responsible for your guns:
>>>>
>>>> One can be perfectly responsible without registration.
>>>
>>> Apparently not - machine guns must be registered, and the murder rate is
>>> zero -- while handguns are not registered and there are 30 deaths from
>>> guns every day.
>>
>>So, according to you when DC required all handguns to be
>>registered....then
>>absolutely no one was ever murdered using a handgun in the district?
>>
>
> Where do you think criminals in DC get their guns?
guns.
>
> Virginia ring a bell?
Then why was Virginia's rate far lower and without even registration?
Oh, and let's not forget it would be a federal crime to bring a handgun
illegally into DC.
Seems criminals didn't care about the law.
>>ROTFLMAO....
>>
>>Are you out to prove you are stupid, or is it you simply can't avoid
>>showing
>>your stupidity?
>>
> That's your mastery. You do it every day. I'll prove it: theres a
> huge difference between machine guns being federally registered, and
> guns in DC only being registered in the district.
As such your rant applies to him, not to me.
So thanks for confirming Baxter's stupidity, but it wasn't necessary since
it's so clear that even you could figure it out.
Scout
Apr 1, 2013, 6:33:54 PM4/1/13
to
"deep" wrote in message news:mg0kl89uu9dn0k3hl...@4ax.com...
the District?
> He's trying to make you see the effectiveness of a NATIONAL registry,
> which would make it very difficult to find regulated guns without
> black market contacts.
contacts?
So how much has that stopped criminals from getting stuff on the black
market?
Oh, really? So when Canada had a national registry on guns ....no one was
murdered with such a gun in Canada?
Sorry, all I see is him presenting one data point and asserting it always
works this way. When I point out that it doesn't, you leap to his defense
and claim it does, if applied nationally. Only problem, it's been tried on
national scales and still didn't work the way Baxter claims it will or in
your defense of that claim.
deep
Apr 1, 2013, 6:40:00 PM4/1/13
to
sort.
>>
>> Virginia ring a bell?
>
>Then why was Virginia's rate far lower and without even registration?
>
than urban ones. Did you really not know that?
>Oh, and let's not forget it would be a federal crime to bring a handgun
>illegally into DC.
>
it's exceedingly easy for criminals to go across the border and buy
guns. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Oh, you're an
idiot. I rememember now.
>Seems criminals didn't care about the law.
>
fine with you.
>>>ROTFLMAO....
>>>
>>>Are you out to prove you are stupid, or is it you simply canow.n't avoid
>>>showing
>>>your stupidity?
>>>
>> That's your mastery. You do it every day. I'll prove it: theres a
>> huge difference between machine guns being federally registered, and
>> guns in DC only being registered in the district.
>
>Agreed, but according to Baxter they are one and the same.
>
Um, no idiot. He's showing you how different they are.
>>>your stupidity?
>>>
>> That's your mastery. You do it every day. I'll prove it: theres a
>> huge difference between machine guns being federally registered, and
>> guns in DC only being registered in the district.
>
>Agreed, but according to Baxter they are one and the same.
>
>As such your rant applies to him, not to me.
>
>So thanks for confirming Baxter's stupidity, but it wasn't necessary since
>it's so clear that even you could figure it out.
>
you clearly can't deal with, so you do your usual tapdancing around
the truth and lying your pathetic ass off.
Scout
Apr 1, 2013, 7:15:15 PM4/1/13
to
"deep" wrote in message news:fo2kl859rdobehsbs...@4ax.com...
guns.
>>> Virginia ring a bell?
>>
>>Then why was Virginia's rate far lower and without even registration?
>>
> It's mostly rural. Rural areas have always had lower murder rates
> than urban ones. Did you really not know that?
Alexandria or Falls Church which are separated from DC only by a river...and
the state of the laws that apply.
So, that excuse isn't going to work Dudu. Want to try to pull another one
out of your ass?
>>Oh, and let's not forget it would be a federal crime to bring a handgun
>>illegally into DC.
>>
> But the guns are readily available without any hassles in Virginia, so
> it's exceedingly easy for criminals to go across the border and buy
> guns.
control laws?
>Why is that so hard for you to understand?
swallow them.
> Oh, you're an
> idiot. I rememember now.
dumb for you to grasp.
A pretty transparent piece of stupidity that is.
>>Seems criminals didn't care about the law.
>>
> Seems you don't care if criminals get guns.
> All they want, and that's
> fine with you.
>>>>ROTFLMAO....
>>>>
>>>>Are you out to prove you are stupid, or is it you simply canow.n't avoid
>>>>showing
>>>>your stupidity?
>>>>
>>> That's your mastery. You do it every day. I'll prove it: theres a
>>> huge difference between machine guns being federally registered, and
>>> guns in DC only being registered in the district.
>>
>>Agreed, but according to Baxter they are one and the same.
>>
>
> Um, no idiot. He's showing you how different they are.
Seems you can't count on registration to impact crime rates, even when done
on a national scale.
>>As such your rant applies to him, not to me.
>
> Maybe you need to get somebody to read to you.
>>So thanks for confirming Baxter's stupidity, but it wasn't necessary since
>>it's so clear that even you could figure it out.
>>
> Wow. You're fucking amazing.
> He raised an accurate, valid point.
> One
> you clearly can't deal with, so you do your usual tapdancing around
> the truth and lying your pathetic ass off.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Apr 1, 2013, 7:46:14 PM4/1/13
to
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:58:16 -0600, deep wrote:
>You're a fucking liar AGAIN. You didn't refute any of his claims.
>He's trying to make you see the effectiveness of a NATIONAL registry,
>which would make it very difficult to find regulated guns without
>black market contacts.
ROFLMAO
>You're a fucking liar AGAIN. You didn't refute any of his claims.
>He's trying to make you see the effectiveness of a NATIONAL registry,
>which would make it very difficult to find regulated guns without
>black market contacts.
Yeah, it's SO hard to find illegal drugs, isn't it?
Holy shit you people get dumber by the minute.
>Patchwork registration at the state level
>clearly is ineffective because all someone needs do is drive over the
>state line to the nearest gunshow. Get it yet dumbass?
owners should be the ones to pay for it.
Sancho Panza
Apr 1, 2013, 8:07:00 PM4/1/13
to
On 4/1/2013 6:04 PM, deep wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 14:34:47 -0700 (PDT), JohnJohnsn
> On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 14:34:47 -0700 (PDT), JohnJohnsn
>> "ASSUmes `Facts' not in evidence," Baxter.
>
> http://cjrc.osu.edu/researchprojects/hvd/hom%20rates%20west.html
>
> I'm thinking I know what lies you're going to spew now. Go ahead,
> prove me right again.
It's that kind of disrespect that engenders reciprocity.
>
> http://cjrc.osu.edu/researchprojects/hvd/hom%20rates%20west.html
>
> I'm thinking I know what lies you're going to spew now. Go ahead,
> prove me right again.
deep
Apr 1, 2013, 8:28:04 PM4/1/13
to
>> He's trying to make you see the effectiveness of a NATIONAL registry,
>> which would make it very difficult to find regulated guns without
>> black market contacts.
>
>You mean just like how people can't find illegal drugs without black market
>contacts?
>
>market?
>
>Oh, really? So when Canada had a national registry on guns ....no one was
>murdered with such a gun in Canada?
>
>Sorry, all I see is him presenting one data point and asserting it always
>works this way. When I point out that it doesn't, you leap to his defense
>and claim it does, if applied nationally. Only problem, it's been tried on
>national scales and still didn't work the way Baxter claims it will or in
>your defense of that claim.
>
He was making the point that national registry moved to halt murders
>
>Oh, really? So when Canada had a national registry on guns ....no one was
>murdered with such a gun in Canada?
>
>Sorry, all I see is him presenting one data point and asserting it always
>works this way. When I point out that it doesn't, you leap to his defense
>and claim it does, if applied nationally. Only problem, it's been tried on
>national scales and still didn't work the way Baxter claims it will or in
>your defense of that claim.
>
with machine guns, so would most likely have positive effect on
handgun violence in places like DC if there was a national registry
RD Sandman
Apr 1, 2013, 9:11:38 PM4/1/13
to
"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
news:kjb7u7$rem$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please be specific or don't bother replying.
--
Sleep well, tonight.....
RD (The Sandman
If you take out the murders, Washington has
a very low crime rate!
news:kjb7u7$rem$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:kjarrp$epl$1...@dont-email.me...
>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjainc$frr$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>
>>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:kjae7r$79t$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>
>>>>> What you really object to is being held responsible for your guns:
>>>>
>>>> One can be perfectly responsible without registration.
>>>
>>> Apparently not - machine guns must be registered, and the murder
>>> rate is zero -- while handguns are not registered and there are 30
>>> deaths from guns every day.
>>
>> So, according to you when DC required all handguns to be
>> registered....then absolutely no one was ever murdered using a
>> handgun in the district?
>>
> Clearly doesn't work if you only do registration on a local level -
> that's why sensible people advocate a national registry.
JUst exactly what do you expect a national registry to accomplish?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:kjarrp$epl$1...@dont-email.me...
>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjainc$frr$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>
>>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:kjae7r$79t$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kjaau6$p83$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>
>>>>> What you really object to is being held responsible for your guns:
>>>>
>>>> One can be perfectly responsible without registration.
>>>
>>> Apparently not - machine guns must be registered, and the murder
>>> rate is zero -- while handguns are not registered and there are 30
>>> deaths from guns every day.
>>
>> So, according to you when DC required all handguns to be
>> registered....then absolutely no one was ever murdered using a
>> handgun in the district?
>>
> Clearly doesn't work if you only do registration on a local level -
> that's why sensible people advocate a national registry.
Please be specific or don't bother replying.
--
Sleep well, tonight.....
RD (The Sandman
If you take out the murders, Washington has
a very low crime rate!
RD Sandman
Apr 1, 2013, 9:13:21 PM4/1/13
to
"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
news:kjb7u9$rem$2...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:kjarsn$eub$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> -
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
yourtube during or after Katrina.
news:kjb7u9$rem$2...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjair0$g0j$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>> -
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---------------
>>>
>>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:kjae9e$7ib$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> ---------------
>>>
>>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kjac4i$t8t$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>>
>>>>> Aren't *you* upset that the NRA is lying about gun confiscation?
>>>>
>>>> Since they have occurred and the risk they will occur again is
>>>> valid, what exactly should I be upset about?
>>>>
>>> None of those instances have occurred because of gun registration.
>>
>> Better check again because they did.
>>
> If they had, you'd have been able to give details.
California on assault weapons, Louisiana (as you have been shown on
>>>>>>
>>>>> Aren't *you* upset that the NRA is lying about gun confiscation?
>>>>
>>>> Since they have occurred and the risk they will occur again is
>>>> valid, what exactly should I be upset about?
>>>>
>>> None of those instances have occurred because of gun registration.
>>
>> Better check again because they did.
>>
> If they had, you'd have been able to give details.
yourtube during or after Katrina.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Apr 1, 2013, 9:17:05 PM4/1/13
to
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 18:28:04 -0600, deep wrote:
>He was making the point that national registry moved to halt murders
>with machine guns
Did it?
>He was making the point that national registry moved to halt murders
>with machine guns
RD Sandman
Apr 1, 2013, 9:22:51 PM4/1/13
to
"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
news:kjc5s9$i1r$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, that isn't what happened. You have already seen video on Katrina in
Louisiana. Here is a cite on California and assault weapons:
http://tinyurl.com/bv8k8ky
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php
http://tinyurl.com/dy9pyoe
http://gunowners.org/nws9911.htm
http://tinyurl.com/ck2nv4r
http://tinyurl.com/bmaxh2p
news:kjc5s9$i1r$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Louisiana. Here is a cite on California and assault weapons:
http://tinyurl.com/bv8k8ky
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php
http://tinyurl.com/dy9pyoe
http://gunowners.org/nws9911.htm
http://tinyurl.com/ck2nv4r
http://tinyurl.com/bmaxh2p
RD Sandman
Apr 1, 2013, 9:24:34 PM4/1/13
to
"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
news:kjcjl9$3b2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet, you presented an article whining that ex-felons couldn't vote.
news:kjcjl9$3b2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
RD Sandman
Apr 1, 2013, 9:31:03 PM4/1/13
to
Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote in news:kjasli$iut$1@dont-
email.me:
> Wayne wrote:
>
>> IIRC, the only assault rifles used in a crime in the US in the past 30
>> years or so was the North Hollywood bank robbery.
>
> Sandy Hook wasn't a crime!?
>
> Ditto the Aurora movie theater and the DA and his wife in Kaufman
> County, Texas and a history of other shootings too numerous to list
>
> Incidently, so much for the theory that a good guy with a gun can stop
a
> bad guy with an assault rifle. The DA was apparently carrying.
IOW, you don't know what an assault rifle is. Assault rifles are full
auto or select fire guns. Assault **weapons** are semi auto cosmetic
clones of full auto guns.
Sandy Hook was an assault weapon, not an assault rifle. The Aurora movie
theater featured an assault weapon with a cheap 100 round magazine. It
jammed after a few rounds, Holmes couldn't clear it. Most of the damage
he did was with a handgun. Cho who killed more people in a mass shooting
than anyone else used a pair of Glock handguns and Loughner in Tucson
used a Glock with a 33 round magazine. None of them used assault rifles.
email.me:
> Wayne wrote:
>
>> IIRC, the only assault rifles used in a crime in the US in the past 30
>> years or so was the North Hollywood bank robbery.
>
> Sandy Hook wasn't a crime!?
>
> Ditto the Aurora movie theater and the DA and his wife in Kaufman
> County, Texas and a history of other shootings too numerous to list
>
> Incidently, so much for the theory that a good guy with a gun can stop
a
> bad guy with an assault rifle. The DA was apparently carrying.
IOW, you don't know what an assault rifle is. Assault rifles are full
auto or select fire guns. Assault **weapons** are semi auto cosmetic
clones of full auto guns.
Sandy Hook was an assault weapon, not an assault rifle. The Aurora movie
theater featured an assault weapon with a cheap 100 round magazine. It
jammed after a few rounds, Holmes couldn't clear it. Most of the damage
he did was with a handgun. Cho who killed more people in a mass shooting
than anyone else used a pair of Glock handguns and Loughner in Tucson
used a Glock with a 33 round magazine. None of them used assault rifles.
Scout
Apr 1, 2013, 9:33:24 PM4/1/13
to
"deep" wrote in message news:pb9kl8t2dp4ej7kjm...@4ax.com...
machine guns.
>>> He's trying to make you see the effectiveness of a NATIONAL registry,
>>> which would make it very difficult to find regulated guns without
>>> black market contacts.
>>
>>You mean just like how people can't find illegal drugs without black
>>market
>>contacts?
>>
>>So how much has that staopped criminals from getting stuff on the black
>>market?
>>
>>Oh, really? So when Canada had a national registry on guns ....no one was
>>murdered with such a gun in Canada?
>>
>>Sorry, all I see is him presenting one data point and asserting it always
>>works this way. When I point out that it doesn't, you leap to his defense
>>and claim it does, if applied nationally. Only problem, it's been tried on
>>national scales and still didn't work the way Baxter claims it will or in
>>your defense of that claim.
>>
> He was making the point that national registry moved to halt murders
> with machine guns, so would most likely have positive effect on
> handgun violence in places like DC if there was a national registry
So why didn't it work in Canada?
It was national in scope.
Oh, and he said nothing about national. So when you asked me where he said
it. You've just answered your own question.
deep
Apr 1, 2013, 9:50:58 PM4/1/13
to
On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 21:33:24 -0400, "Scout"
Canada has less than half the handgun murder rate as does the US.
Australia about a tenth. The UK about a hundredth.
>It was national in scope.
>
>Oh, and he said nothing about national. So when you asked me where he said
>it. You've just answered your own question.
>
>
Jesus, you just can't fucking read, can you? Why o you keep
embarassing yourself?
Australia about a tenth. The UK about a hundredth.
>It was national in scope.
>
>Oh, and he said nothing about national. So when you asked me where he said
>it. You've just answered your own question.
>
>
embarassing yourself?
Wayne
Apr 1, 2013, 10:08:52 PM4/1/13
to
On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:52:43 -0700, Bill Shatzer
<ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote:
> Wayne wrote:
> > IIRC, the only assault rifles used in a crime in the US in the
past 30
> > years or so was the North Hollywood bank robbery.
> Sandy Hook wasn't a crime!?
> Ditto the Aurora movie theater and the DA and his wife in Kaufman
> County, Texas and a history of other shootings too numerous to list
> Incidently, so much for the theory that a good guy with a gun can
stop a
> bad guy with an assault rifle. The DA was apparently carrying.
An assault rifle was used in none of those. Learn about guns before
<ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote:
> Wayne wrote:
> > IIRC, the only assault rifles used in a crime in the US in the
past 30
> > years or so was the North Hollywood bank robbery.
> Sandy Hook wasn't a crime!?
> Ditto the Aurora movie theater and the DA and his wife in Kaufman
> County, Texas and a history of other shootings too numerous to list
> Incidently, so much for the theory that a good guy with a gun can
stop a
> bad guy with an assault rifle. The DA was apparently carrying.
posting.
Scout
Apr 1, 2013, 11:25:14 PM4/1/13
to
"deep" wrote in message news:54ekl81o8fh46esbh...@4ax.com...
Why didn't it work in Canada?
>>It was national in scope.
>>
>>Oh, and he said nothing about national. So when you asked me where he said
>>it. You've just answered your own question.
>>
>>
> Jesus, you just can't fucking read, can you? Why o you keep
> embarassing yourself?
You should be.
JohnJohnsn
Apr 1, 2013, 11:55:46 PM4/1/13
to
On Apr 1, 8:31 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman@comcast,net> wrote:
>
>
> Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote in
> news:kjasli$iut$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>
> Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote in
>
>
>
>> Wayne wrote:
>
>>> IIRC, the only assault rifles used in a crime in the US in the past 30
>>> years or so was the North Hollywood bank robbery.
>
>> Sandy Hook wasn't a crime!?
>
>> Ditto the Aurora movie theater and the DA and his wife in Kaufman
>> County, Texas and a history of other shootings too numerous to list
>
>> Incidently, so much for the theory that a good guy with a gun can stop
>> a bad guy with an assault rifle. The DA was apparently carrying.
>
> IOW, you don't know what an assault rifle is. Assault rifles are full
> auto or select fire guns. Assault **weapons** are semi auto cosmetic
> clones of full auto guns.
>
> Sandy Hook was an assault weapon, not an assault rifle.
>
“Assault weapons—just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and
>
>
>> Wayne wrote:
>
>>> IIRC, the only assault rifles used in a crime in the US in the past 30
>>> years or so was the North Hollywood bank robbery.
>
>> Sandy Hook wasn't a crime!?
>
>> Ditto the Aurora movie theater and the DA and his wife in Kaufman
>> County, Texas and a history of other shootings too numerous to list
>
>> Incidently, so much for the theory that a good guy with a gun can stop
>> a bad guy with an assault rifle. The DA was apparently carrying.
>
> IOW, you don't know what an assault rifle is. Assault rifles are full
> auto or select fire guns. Assault **weapons** are semi auto cosmetic
> clones of full auto guns.
>
> Sandy Hook was an assault weapon, not an assault rifle.
>
plastic firearms—are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled
with the public's confusion over fully-automatic machine guns [a/k/a
"assault rifles"] versus semi-automatic assault weapons—anything that
looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun—can only
increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these
weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for
these weapons.“
-Josh Sugarmann, `Assault Weapons and Accessories in America', 1988
>
> The Aurora movie theater featured an assault weapon with a cheap 100
> round magazine. It jammed after a few rounds, Holmes couldn't clear it.
> Most of the damage he did was with a handgun. Cho who killed more
> people in a mass shooting than anyone else used a pair of Glock handguns
> and Loughner in Tucson used a Glock with a 33 round magazine.
> None of them used assault rifles.
>
> --
> Sleep well, tonight.....
>
> RD (The Sandman
>
> If you take out the murders, Washington has
> a very low crime rate!
--Marion Barry, D.C mayor
> The Aurora movie theater featured an assault weapon with a cheap 100
> round magazine. It jammed after a few rounds, Holmes couldn't clear it.
> Most of the damage he did was with a handgun. Cho who killed more
> people in a mass shooting than anyone else used a pair of Glock handguns
> and Loughner in Tucson used a Glock with a 33 round magazine.
> None of them used assault rifles.
>
> --
> Sleep well, tonight.....
>
> RD (The Sandman
>
> If you take out the murders, Washington has
> a very low crime rate!
Bill Shatzer
Apr 2, 2013, 1:00:16 AM4/2/13
to
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assault%20rifle
"any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles with large capacity
magazines designed for military use".
/peace and justice/
Flint
Apr 2, 2013, 1:19:03 AM4/2/13
to
population, yet it has half the gun murders that the US does? Sounds
like Canada loses out on that stat, per capita-wise.
>
> And I ask you again.....
>
> Why didn't it work in Canada?
>
>
>>> It was national in scope.
>>>
>>> Oh, and he said nothing about national. So when you asked me where
>>> he said
>>> it. You've just answered your own question.
>>>
>>>
>> Jesus, you just can't fucking read, can you? Why o you keep
>> embarassing yourself?
>
> Are you asking yourself?
>
> You should be.
>
>
MFB
Klaus Schadenfreude
Apr 2, 2013, 6:48:02 AM4/2/13
to
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 19:50:58 -0600, deep wrote:
>Canada has less than half the handgun murder rate as does the US.
>Australia about a tenth. The UK about a hundredth.
Why the difference if they all have registration?
>Canada has less than half the handgun murder rate as does the US.
>Australia about a tenth. The UK about a hundredth.
Sancho Panza
Apr 2, 2013, 8:23:36 AM4/2/13
to
population, economic situations, sociological differences, etc. Any
number of non-gun factors are of major significance in broad
generalities like handgun murder rates.
JohnJohnsn
Apr 2, 2013, 8:39:00 AM4/2/13
to
>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:52:43 -0700, Bill Shatzer <ww...@cornell.edu>
at Sandy Hook Elementarty School, Shatzer.
A shoulder-fired, gas-operated, magazine-fed semi-automatic rifle
firing an intermediate-power cartridge was what was used at that
"Government-designated Gun-Free Defenseless-Child Killing Zone."
the person(s) who placed such a historically- and accuracy-incorrect
"definition" into the M-W dictionary.
First Known Use of ASSAULT RIFLE
1972
It's painfully obvious that the writer of this entry is painfully
IGNORANT of firearms and their history.
You, OTOH, have no "excuse" for being just as IGNORANT as they.
"1972"?
How about 1944?
"The StG 44 (Sturmgewehr 44, literally "storm (or assault) rifle
(model of 19)44" was an assault rifle developed in Nazi Germany during
World War II that was the first of its kind to see major deployment
and is considered by many historians to be the first modern assault
rifle. It is also known under the designations MP 43 and MP 44
(Maschinenpistole 43, Maschinenpistole 44 respectively), which denote
earlier development versions of the same weapon with some differences
like a different butt end, muzzle nut, shape of the front sight base
or with an unstepped barrel, all only visible with close inspection."
-
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/MP44_-_Tyskland_-_8x33mm_Kurz_-_Arm%C3%A9museum.jpg
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StG_44
The second "assault rifle" was designed by a recovering wounded
Russian tank mechanic by the name of Mikhail Timofeyevich
Kalashnikov.
His "assault rifle" is the infamous AK-47:
-
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/AK-47_type_II_Part_DM-ST-89-01131.jpg
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalishnikov
So here, the M-W `daffynition' author is at LEAST twice wrong.
Moreover, since Merriam-Webster is a part of the Encyclopædia
Britiannica, they also included this:
assault rifle noun (Concise Encyclopedia)
Military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or
propellant charge and has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic
and fully automatic fire. Light and portable, yet able to deliver a
high volume of fire with reasonable accuracy at modern combat ranges
of 1,000–1,600 ft (300–500 m), assault rifles have become the standard
infantry weapon of modern armies. Their ease of handling makes them
ideal for mobile assault troops crowded into personnel carriers or
helicopters, as well as for guerrilla fighters engaged in jungle or
urban warfare. Widely used assault rifles are the U.S. M16, the Soviet
Kalashnikov (the AK-47 and modernized versions), the Belgian FAL and
FNC, and the German G3.
--Ibid.
Pay CLOSE attention here, Bill: it's your own link that brings us to
the above; and with specificity:
"...has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully
automatic fire."
The Bushmaster XM-15E2S semi-automatic-ONLY rifle used by Adam Lanza
DID NOT have that switching capabiity.
Also from your own cite comes:
"Select fire as in safe, semi, and auto/3 round burst. i.e a selector
that offers only safe and semi is not a feature that makes a rifle
into an assault rifle."
...
"If the dictionary can't get the definition right then how can we
expect congress to?"
--John Lin
It's obvious that VPC's Joshie Sugarmann, the creator of the deceptive
term "assault weapon", had people like you in mind when he penned:
“Assault weapons—just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and
plastic firearms—are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled
with the public's confusion over fully-automatic machine guns
[ed.note: a/k/a "assault rifles"] versus semi-automatic assault weapons
>
"/Dumb and Dumber/" is your appropriate "handle" for this Thread
entry, Bill.
ps: While not exactly a "pro-gun" article, I find this to be a
reasonably well-informed and basically accurate story:
A History Of The Rifle Used In The Sandy Hook Massacre
by Eric Lach - December 20, 2012, 11:54 AM
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/12/bushmaster_ar15_sandy_hook_adam_lanza.php
pps: even the EB definition above was partly incorrect: both the FN
and G3 rifles are "main battle rifles" and not "assault rifles;" as
they fire the full-power 7.62x54mm NATO (a/k/a .308 Winchester: a
reduced-capacity decendent of the .30-06 Springfield) cartridge and
not the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge of the M16Ax, M4Ax and the FNC
"assault rifles."
---
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're
ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.”
--Ronald Reagan
>> wrote:
>
>>> Wayne wrote:
>
>>>> IIRC, the only assault rifles used in a crime in the US in the
>>>> past 30 years or so was the North Hollywood bank robbery.
>
>>> Sandy Hook wasn't a crime!?
>
An "assault rifle" was not used by Adam Lanza to commit the atrocity
>
>>> Wayne wrote:
>
>>>> IIRC, the only assault rifles used in a crime in the US in the
>>>> past 30 years or so was the North Hollywood bank robbery.
>
>>> Sandy Hook wasn't a crime!?
>
at Sandy Hook Elementarty School, Shatzer.
A shoulder-fired, gas-operated, magazine-fed semi-automatic rifle
firing an intermediate-power cartridge was what was used at that
"Government-designated Gun-Free Defenseless-Child Killing Zone."
>
>>> Ditto the Aurora movie theater and the DA and his wife in Kaufman
>>> County, Texas and a history of other shootings too numerous to list
>>> Incidently, so much for the theory that a good guy with a gun can
>>> stop a bad guy with an assault rifle. The DA was apparently carrying.
>
>> An assault rifle was used in none of those. Learn about guns before
>> posting.
>
> Well, e-x-c-u-s-e me for using the dictionary definition.
>
Sorry, Bill; but there's no excuse for being just as PIG IGNORANT as
>>> Ditto the Aurora movie theater and the DA and his wife in Kaufman
>>> County, Texas and a history of other shootings too numerous to list
>>> Incidently, so much for the theory that a good guy with a gun can
>>> stop a bad guy with an assault rifle. The DA was apparently carrying.
>
>> An assault rifle was used in none of those. Learn about guns before
>> posting.
>
> Well, e-x-c-u-s-e me for using the dictionary definition.
>
the person(s) who placed such a historically- and accuracy-incorrect
"definition" into the M-W dictionary.
>
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assault%20rifle
>
>"any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles with large capacity
> magazines designed for military use".
>
They also wrote into that `daffynition' this, Bill:
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assault%20rifle
>
>"any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles with large capacity
> magazines designed for military use".
>
First Known Use of ASSAULT RIFLE
1972
It's painfully obvious that the writer of this entry is painfully
IGNORANT of firearms and their history.
You, OTOH, have no "excuse" for being just as IGNORANT as they.
"1972"?
How about 1944?
"The StG 44 (Sturmgewehr 44, literally "storm (or assault) rifle
(model of 19)44" was an assault rifle developed in Nazi Germany during
World War II that was the first of its kind to see major deployment
and is considered by many historians to be the first modern assault
rifle. It is also known under the designations MP 43 and MP 44
(Maschinenpistole 43, Maschinenpistole 44 respectively), which denote
earlier development versions of the same weapon with some differences
like a different butt end, muzzle nut, shape of the front sight base
or with an unstepped barrel, all only visible with close inspection."
-
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/MP44_-_Tyskland_-_8x33mm_Kurz_-_Arm%C3%A9museum.jpg
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StG_44
The second "assault rifle" was designed by a recovering wounded
Russian tank mechanic by the name of Mikhail Timofeyevich
Kalashnikov.
His "assault rifle" is the infamous AK-47:
-
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/AK-47_type_II_Part_DM-ST-89-01131.jpg
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalishnikov
So here, the M-W `daffynition' author is at LEAST twice wrong.
Moreover, since Merriam-Webster is a part of the Encyclopædia
Britiannica, they also included this:
assault rifle noun (Concise Encyclopedia)
Military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or
propellant charge and has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic
and fully automatic fire. Light and portable, yet able to deliver a
high volume of fire with reasonable accuracy at modern combat ranges
of 1,000–1,600 ft (300–500 m), assault rifles have become the standard
infantry weapon of modern armies. Their ease of handling makes them
ideal for mobile assault troops crowded into personnel carriers or
helicopters, as well as for guerrilla fighters engaged in jungle or
urban warfare. Widely used assault rifles are the U.S. M16, the Soviet
Kalashnikov (the AK-47 and modernized versions), the Belgian FAL and
FNC, and the German G3.
--Ibid.
Pay CLOSE attention here, Bill: it's your own link that brings us to
the above; and with specificity:
"...has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully
automatic fire."
The Bushmaster XM-15E2S semi-automatic-ONLY rifle used by Adam Lanza
DID NOT have that switching capabiity.
Also from your own cite comes:
"Select fire as in safe, semi, and auto/3 round burst. i.e a selector
that offers only safe and semi is not a feature that makes a rifle
into an assault rifle."
...
"If the dictionary can't get the definition right then how can we
expect congress to?"
--John Lin
It's obvious that VPC's Joshie Sugarmann, the creator of the deceptive
term "assault weapon", had people like you in mind when he penned:
“Assault weapons—just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and
plastic firearms—are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled
with the public's confusion over fully-automatic machine guns
—anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun—
can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on
these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use
for these weapons.“
-Josh Sugarmann, `Assault Weapons and Accessories in America', 1988
>
> /peace and justice/
can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on
these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use
for these weapons.“
-Josh Sugarmann, `Assault Weapons and Accessories in America', 1988
>
>
"/Dumb and Dumber/" is your appropriate "handle" for this Thread
entry, Bill.
ps: While not exactly a "pro-gun" article, I find this to be a
reasonably well-informed and basically accurate story:
A History Of The Rifle Used In The Sandy Hook Massacre
by Eric Lach - December 20, 2012, 11:54 AM
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/12/bushmaster_ar15_sandy_hook_adam_lanza.php
pps: even the EB definition above was partly incorrect: both the FN
and G3 rifles are "main battle rifles" and not "assault rifles;" as
they fire the full-power 7.62x54mm NATO (a/k/a .308 Winchester: a
reduced-capacity decendent of the .30-06 Springfield) cartridge and
not the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge of the M16Ax, M4Ax and the FNC
"assault rifles."
---
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're
ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.”
--Ronald Reagan
Klaus Schadenfreude
Apr 2, 2013, 8:41:45 AM4/2/13
to
deep
Apr 2, 2013, 9:50:09 AM4/2/13
to
On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 01:19:03 -0400, Flint <agen...@section-31.net>
wrote:
Whoa. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, eh? Stats like that at
based per 100,000. Not on the total population numbnuts.
>
>
wrote:
based per 100,000. Not on the total population numbnuts.
>
>
Baxter
Apr 2, 2013, 9:52:34 AM4/2/13
to
-
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"Flint" <agen...@section-31.net> wrote in message
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Baxter
Apr 2, 2013, 10:00:37 AM4/2/13
to
-
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"Sancho Panza" <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
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news:515acdcd$0$19526$607e...@cv.net...
guns in the hands of idiots.
========
Another day in the (Gun Crazy) U.S.A.
Northwest Miami-Dade, Fla. -- A 4-year-old girl died after being struck by a
bullet while sitting in a parked car at a residence along with several other
children about 6:10 p.m. Saturday. Police believe one of the children might
have accidentally fired the gun.
Kansas City, Mo. -- A 14-year-old boy, a middle school student, was shot and
killed on a street when someone fired at him from a passing car about 3 p.m.
Saturday. A 15-year-old boy who was with the victim was not injured.
Indianapolis, Ind. -- A man cleaning his gun was killed about 3:30 p.m.
Saturday when the weapon accidentally discharged.
Philadelphia, Penn. -- A 27-year-old woman was accidentally shot and killed
by her 28-year-old boyfriend about 7:45 p.m. Saturday. The boyfriend says he
was arguing with a neighbor, possibly an uncle, when the neighbor threatened
him with a hammer. Fearing for his safety, the boyfriend took out a gun, but
then tripped and accidentally pulled the trigger, shooting the woman in the
neck.
Cleveland Heights, Calif. -- A 25-year-old woman was apparently accidentally
shot and killed outside a restaurant by a security guard about 3 a.m.
Saturday. Police say the victim and three other women were involved in an
altercation with the guard inside the restaurant. As he was escorting them
off the property, he was knocked to the ground and his weapon discharged,
hitting the victim.
Harrisburg, N.C. -- A 50-year-old man shot and killed two of his
neighbors -- a 64-year-old man and a 42-year-old man -- in the backyard of
one of their homes on a cul-de-sac. He then used the gun to kill himself
after a several-hours-long standoff with police. The shooting was related to
a dispute of some sort.
Ashtabula, Ohio -- A 52-year-old man was shot and killed outside a church by
his 25-year-old son shortly after Easter services ended about 1:15 p.m.
Sunday.
Hartford, Conn. -- A 22-year-old man was shot to death behind a building
about 9:20 p.m. Sunday. He was hit once in the head.
Forney, Tex. -- A 63-year-old man and his 65-year-old wife were found shot
to death at their home Saturday night. The man was the district attorney for
the county and police believe the victims were targeted.
North Harris County, Tex. -- A 25-year-old man was fatally shot outside a
house about 11:30 p.m. Saturday night.
Los Angeles, Calif. -- About 11:10 p.m. yesterday, a man and woman
encountered two gunmen after they went outside their home to investigate a
car-alarm that was going off. A confrontation resulted and it ended up in
the house where the man, 50 years old, was shot twice in the chest. He died
a short time later. Police report that the gunmen and the victim might have
known each other.
Washington, D.C. -- A 33-year-old man was shot and killed about 2:10 a.m.
Saturday outside an apartment complex. He had been shot in the chest.
Melbourne, Fla. -- A sales manager at an auto dealership was shot and killed
during an apparent road-rage incident while test-driving a vehicle for a
trade-in. During the test drive, the manager stopped to make a right-hand
turn and was rear-ended by another car. The driver of that car, a
64-year-old man, then shot the victim, killing him.
Oakland, Calif. -- A 31-year-old man was fatally shot while sitting inside a
car around 10 a.m. yesterday. The gunman fled in a vehicle.
Oakland, Calif. -- A man was fatally shot while on a street about 4:10 p.m.
yesterday.
Oakland, Calif. -- A man was fatally shot while on a street about 8:10 p.m.
yesterday.
Jacksonville, Fla. -- A 32-year-old man was fatally shot Sunday morning
after getting into a disagreement with a 20-year-old man. Police are looking
for the suspect.
Brooklyn, N.Y. -- A 37-year-old livery-cab driver on his way to pick up a
fare was killed about 12:45 a.m. today after being shot in the face and
crashing his minivan.
Bronx, N.Y. -- A 28-year-old man was shot in the throat and killed about
12:15 a.m. yesterday inside an apartment building.
Las Vegas, Nev. -- A 43-year-old man is a suspect in the shooting deaths of
his mother and father. The son claimed he found the couple fatally shot
inside their home about 9 p.m. Friday. Police initially thought it was a
case of murder-suicide, but now believe the son killed them.
St. Louis, Mo. -- When someone in a passing car shot at a group of people,
one of the bullets struck a 4-year-old girl in the shoulder as she walked
with her mother up the steps of a home. Police arrested a 23-year-old man in
connection with the incident.
South Pittsburgh, Tenn. -- About 6:30 p.m. Thursday, a 13-year-old was
struck in the shoulder by a bullet when his father tested his gun by firing
it from his back porch into thick woods. The father didn�t know his son was
in the woods; he thought the boy was inside the house. The victim was listed
in good condition.
Madison County, Ga. -- A 17-year old boy watching TV in a living room
accidentally shot himself in the hand while trying to unload a pistol on
Saturday.
Port Deposit, Md. -- A 20-year-old man accidentally shot himself in the
torso when he tripped and fell while walking back to his house after target
shooting Saturday about 2:30 p.m. No word on his condition.
Chicago, Ill. -- Someone in a moving car opened fire on a 21-year-old man
sitting on a porch about 7:30 p.m. yesterday. The victim was struck in the
abdomen and was listed in serious condition.
Chicago, Ill. -- A 26-year-old man was shot in the hip and knee while
leaving a store about 9:15 p.m. yesterday. He was listed in critical
condition.
Chicago, Ill. -- A 29-year-old man walking down a street was shot in the leg
about 9:50 p.m. when someone fired shots at him from a passing car. He was
listed in stable condition.
Stamford, Conn. --About 7 p.m. Thursday, a 26-year-old man accidentally shot
himself in the leg at his residence while cleaning his semi-automatic gun
after returning from a firing range. No word on his condition.
Milwaukee, Wis. -- About 9:15 p.m. Saturday, a 17-year-old male was shot by
someone during an altercation over a female acquaintance. No word on his
condition.
New Orleans, La. -- A man was shot in the foot about 7 p.m. yesterday. No
word on his condition.
Oakland, Calif. -- Someone was shot about 7 p.m. yesterday. No word on the
victim�s condition.
Jacksonville, Fla. -- A man was shot in the upper torso about 9 p.m.
yesterday. He was expected to survive.
Washington, D.C. -- A 16-year-old boy was shot and wounded while on a street
about 12:40 a.m. today when someone in a car fired at him. His injuries were
reported as non life-threatening.
Jacksonville, Fla. -- A man sitting in front of a house with two or three
friends was shot twice in the leg about 5 p.m. Saturday when a car pulled up
and someone in the car opened fire. The victim was reported to have non
life-threatening injuries.
RD Sandman
Apr 2, 2013, 12:10:15 PM4/2/13
to
JohnJohnsn <TopCo...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:cfce1ccd-5374-4e7b-9cd5-
d6908b...@u20g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
Pretty much sums it up.
d6908b...@u20g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
RD Sandman
Apr 2, 2013, 12:11:39 PM4/2/13
to
deep wrote in news:54ekl81o8fh46esbh...@4ax.com:
That isn't what you were asked. You were asked why a national registry
didn't work in Canada
didn't work in Canada
Baxter
Apr 2, 2013, 12:22:47 PM4/2/13
to
-
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news:XnsA1965D8CA...@216.196.121.131...
US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine. Also, the
Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates between 43% and
90%.
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"RD Sandman" <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote in message
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
news:XnsA1965D8CA...@216.196.121.131...
>> Canada has less than half the handgun murder rate as does the US.
>> Australia about a tenth. The UK about a hundredth.
>
> That isn't what you were asked. You were asked why a national registry
> didn't work in Canada
>
They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close to the
>> Australia about a tenth. The UK about a hundredth.
>
> That isn't what you were asked. You were asked why a national registry
> didn't work in Canada
>
US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine. Also, the
Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates between 43% and
90%.
RD Sandman
Apr 2, 2013, 12:38:34 PM4/2/13
to
"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Canada is too close to
> the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine. Also,
> the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates between
> 43% and 90%.
And a 50% non compliance rate. Are you familiar with the problems of
running a live database with multiple entry points?
--
Democracy means that anyone can grow up to be President,
And anyone who doesn't grow up can be Vice President.
Sleep well, tonight.....
RD (The Sandman)
news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> "RD Sandman" <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:XnsA1965D8CA...@216.196.121.131...
>> deep wrote in news:54ekl81o8fh46esbh...@4ax.com:
>>
>>>>
>>> Canada has less than half the handgun murder rate as does the US.
>>> Australia about a tenth. The UK about a hundredth.
>>
>> That isn't what you were asked. You were asked why a national
>> registry didn't work in Canada
>>
> They only registered some guns instead of all.
Why do you think that was?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> "RD Sandman" <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:XnsA1965D8CA...@216.196.121.131...
>> deep wrote in news:54ekl81o8fh46esbh...@4ax.com:
>>
>>>>
>>> Canada has less than half the handgun murder rate as does the US.
>>> Australia about a tenth. The UK about a hundredth.
>>
>> That isn't what you were asked. You were asked why a national
>> registry didn't work in Canada
>>
> They only registered some guns instead of all.
Canada is too close to
> the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine. Also,
> the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates between
> 43% and 90%.
running a live database with multiple entry points?
--
Democracy means that anyone can grow up to be President,
And anyone who doesn't grow up can be Vice President.
Sleep well, tonight.....
RD (The Sandman)
pyotr filipivich
Apr 2, 2013, 12:47:37 PM4/2/13
to
Let the Record show that Klaus Schadenfreude
<klausscha...@yahoo.com> on or about Tue, 02 Apr 2013 03:48:02
-0700 did write, type or otherwise cause to appear in
talk.politics.guns the following:
The answer for Australia and the UK are obvious - both are island
nations. Along with Canada, are part of a Monarchy.
So: bring back the Monarchy!
tschus
pyotr "will be King for food" filipivich
--
pyotr filipivich
Gungrabber: Why would anyone need a 30 or 40 shot magazine
for any kind of sporting or protective purpose?
Bennet Langlotz: Why does the government *need* me to
take the time to reload?
<klausscha...@yahoo.com> on or about Tue, 02 Apr 2013 03:48:02
-0700 did write, type or otherwise cause to appear in
talk.politics.guns the following:
nations. Along with Canada, are part of a Monarchy.
So: bring back the Monarchy!
tschus
pyotr "will be King for food" filipivich
--
pyotr filipivich
Gungrabber: Why would anyone need a 30 or 40 shot magazine
for any kind of sporting or protective purpose?
Bennet Langlotz: Why does the government *need* me to
take the time to reload?
deep
Apr 2, 2013, 1:32:21 PM4/2/13
to
On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 11:38:34 -0500, RD Sandman
<rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
>news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>> -
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------
>>
>> "RD Sandman" <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:XnsA1965D8CA...@216.196.121.131...
>>> deep wrote in news:54ekl81o8fh46esbh...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Canada has less than half the handgun murder rate as does the US.
>>>> Australia about a tenth. The UK about a hundredth.
>>>
>>> That isn't what you were asked. You were asked why a national
>>> registry didn't work in Canada
>>>
>> They only registered some guns instead of all.
>
>Why do you think that was?
Incomplete legislation.
<rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
>news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>> -
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------
>>
>> "RD Sandman" <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:XnsA1965D8CA...@216.196.121.131...
>>> deep wrote in news:54ekl81o8fh46esbh...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Canada has less than half the handgun murder rate as does the US.
>>>> Australia about a tenth. The UK about a hundredth.
>>>
>>> That isn't what you were asked. You were asked why a national
>>> registry didn't work in Canada
>>>
>> They only registered some guns instead of all.
>
>Why do you think that was?
>
> Canada is too close to
>> the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine. Also,
>> the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates between
>> 43% and 90%.
>
>And a 50% non compliance rate. Are you familiar with the problems of
>running a live database with multiple entry points?
and Access all the time, with literally hundreds of simultaneous
connections. On a little Windows server no less. Oracle on a cluster
of Sun boxes can do it with thousands of connections. It's what I do
BTW. I could explain index files and merging to you but it would only
make your eyes glaze over and you will start to feel all whoozy.
RD Sandman
Apr 2, 2013, 1:45:06 PM4/2/13
to
deep wrote in news:985ml85od9voi3fb6...@4ax.com:
What do you feel is your accuracy percentage on that database? I wasn't
talking about the number of input points. The problem keeping the
accuracy of the data itself with the constant changes and things being
added and subtracted.
talking about the number of input points. The problem keeping the
accuracy of the data itself with the constant changes and things being
added and subtracted.
deep
Apr 2, 2013, 2:14:02 PM4/2/13
to
On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 12:45:06 -0500, RD Sandman
You're talking about two different things now. The database can be
designed to handle everything with 99.9999% accuracy. Now your
processes and procedures is a different story. Garbage in, garbage
out. It all comes in the legislation and how well it is written and
how enforceable it is, is the key. So it is possible, but the
limitations are not the database itself. That comes down to a rather
simple relational database. Now what everyone decides we collect and
distribute with that database is the clincher of course.
designed to handle everything with 99.9999% accuracy. Now your
processes and procedures is a different story. Garbage in, garbage
out. It all comes in the legislation and how well it is written and
how enforceable it is, is the key. So it is possible, but the
limitations are not the database itself. That comes down to a rather
simple relational database. Now what everyone decides we collect and
distribute with that database is the clincher of course.
Baxter
Apr 2, 2013, 2:33:26 PM4/2/13
to
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Currently there are very weak penalties for inaccurate or even fraudulent
gun purchase forms - plus very limited inspections and virtually no
cross-referencing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<deep> wrote in message news:nl7ml89mtprdho1q0...@4ax.com...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
gun purchase forms - plus very limited inspections and virtually no
cross-referencing.
RD Sandman
Apr 2, 2013, 2:33:53 PM4/2/13
to
deep wrote in news:nl7ml89mtprdho1q0...@4ax.com:
Actually, it was what I had in mind in the first place. I used to work
with databases and one in particular was a registration type base we had
to work with and it was kept people busy trying to keep it up to date. I
tried to kill it (and finally succeeded) it was like a tarbaby. It kept
popping back up.
The database can be
> designed to handle everything with 99.9999% accuracy. Now your
> processes and procedures is a different story. Garbage in, garbage
> out.
Bingo and that is the major problem will all live databases.
It all comes in the legislation and how well it is written and
> how enforceable it is, is the key.
Actually, the key is who is unputting that data and what constraints are
they operating under.
So it is possible, but the
> limitations are not the database itself.
It is the accuracy of what comes out of it. Look at the error rates in
NICS.
That comes down to a rather
> simple relational database. Now what everyone decides we collect and
> distribute with that database is the clincher of course.
I look at how screwed up NICS is and a registration database will have
the same processes and pretty much the same personnel doing inputting. A
typical example is looking at Brady for, say, 2006. I just happen to
have that one in front of me. They had 5,262,752 applications and 77,233
denials. Of those denials 60,736 of them never got referred to field
divisions and 7,065 of them were overturned. 9,432 ended up being
referred for investigation. Of those 22.5% were not a prohibited person
just got caught up in the denials for name similarities, no potential in
the investigation....whatever. Bottom line is that out of those 77,000
denials only 273 were referred for prosecution and only 73 received a
guilty plea or a guilty verdict at trial.
Those numbers are typical and repeat each year.....at least through 2010
in the reports that I have. I am waiting on the 2011 report which should
be completed by now but I don't expect to see anything very different.
with databases and one in particular was a registration type base we had
to work with and it was kept people busy trying to keep it up to date. I
tried to kill it (and finally succeeded) it was like a tarbaby. It kept
popping back up.
The database can be
> designed to handle everything with 99.9999% accuracy. Now your
> processes and procedures is a different story. Garbage in, garbage
> out.
It all comes in the legislation and how well it is written and
> how enforceable it is, is the key.
they operating under.
So it is possible, but the
> limitations are not the database itself.
NICS.
That comes down to a rather
> simple relational database. Now what everyone decides we collect and
> distribute with that database is the clincher of course.
the same processes and pretty much the same personnel doing inputting. A
typical example is looking at Brady for, say, 2006. I just happen to
have that one in front of me. They had 5,262,752 applications and 77,233
denials. Of those denials 60,736 of them never got referred to field
divisions and 7,065 of them were overturned. 9,432 ended up being
referred for investigation. Of those 22.5% were not a prohibited person
just got caught up in the denials for name similarities, no potential in
the investigation....whatever. Bottom line is that out of those 77,000
denials only 273 were referred for prosecution and only 73 received a
guilty plea or a guilty verdict at trial.
Those numbers are typical and repeat each year.....at least through 2010
in the reports that I have. I am waiting on the 2011 report which should
be completed by now but I don't expect to see anything very different.
RD Sandman
Apr 2, 2013, 4:29:48 PM4/2/13
to
"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
news:kjf89k$pdb$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
correct information can be prosecuted as a felony.
Here is the declaration on all Form 4473s:
I certify that the above answers are correct. I understand that
answering "yes" to 12a when I not the actual buyer of the firearm is a
crime punishable as a felony. I understand that a person who answers
"yes" to any of the questions 12b through 12k is prohibited from
purchasing or receiving a firearm. I understant that a person who
answers "yes" to question 12i is prohibited from purchasing or receiving
a firearm, unless the person also answers "yes" to question 13. I also
understand that making any false oral or written statement, or exhibiting
any false or misrepresented identification with respect to this
transaction, is a crime punishable as a felony. I further understand
that the repetitive purchases of firearms for the purpose of resale for
livelihood and profit without a federal firearms license is a violation
of law.
- plus very limited inspections
The forms are inspected by the dealers before processing.
and
> virtually no cross-referencing.
news:kjf89k$pdb$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> <deep> wrote in message
> news:nl7ml89mtprdho1q0...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 12:45:06 -0500, RD Sandman
>> <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>What do you feel is your accuracy percentage on that database? I
>>>wasn't talking about the number of input points. The problem keeping
>>>the accuracy of the data itself with the constant changes and things
>>>being added and subtracted.
>>
>> You're talking about two different things now. The database can be
>> designed to handle everything with 99.9999% accuracy. Now your
>> processes and procedures is a different story. Garbage in, garbage
>> out. It all comes in the legislation and how well it is written and
>> how enforceable it is, is the key. So it is possible, but the
>> limitations are not the database itself. That comes down to a rather
>> simple relational database. Now what everyone decides we collect and
>> distribute with that database is the clincher of course.
>
> Currently there are very weak penalties for inaccurate or even
> fraudulent gun purchase forms
Enforcement may be weak but the actions of not filling out the form with
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> <deep> wrote in message
> news:nl7ml89mtprdho1q0...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 12:45:06 -0500, RD Sandman
>> <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>What do you feel is your accuracy percentage on that database? I
>>>wasn't talking about the number of input points. The problem keeping
>>>the accuracy of the data itself with the constant changes and things
>>>being added and subtracted.
>>
>> You're talking about two different things now. The database can be
>> designed to handle everything with 99.9999% accuracy. Now your
>> processes and procedures is a different story. Garbage in, garbage
>> out. It all comes in the legislation and how well it is written and
>> how enforceable it is, is the key. So it is possible, but the
>> limitations are not the database itself. That comes down to a rather
>> simple relational database. Now what everyone decides we collect and
>> distribute with that database is the clincher of course.
>
> Currently there are very weak penalties for inaccurate or even
> fraudulent gun purchase forms
correct information can be prosecuted as a felony.
Here is the declaration on all Form 4473s:
I certify that the above answers are correct. I understand that
answering "yes" to 12a when I not the actual buyer of the firearm is a
crime punishable as a felony. I understand that a person who answers
"yes" to any of the questions 12b through 12k is prohibited from
purchasing or receiving a firearm. I understant that a person who
answers "yes" to question 12i is prohibited from purchasing or receiving
a firearm, unless the person also answers "yes" to question 13. I also
understand that making any false oral or written statement, or exhibiting
any false or misrepresented identification with respect to this
transaction, is a crime punishable as a felony. I further understand
that the repetitive purchases of firearms for the purpose of resale for
livelihood and profit without a federal firearms license is a violation
of law.
- plus very limited inspections
and
> virtually no cross-referencing.
Scout
Apr 2, 2013, 10:02:40 PM4/2/13
to
"Bill Shatzer" <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote in message
news:kjdogl$br8$1...@dont-email.me...
military use.
However, assault rifle has always referred to a select fire weapon, but
perhaps Brady's operation to confuse the public on what assault
rifles/weapons are has blurred the lines and the definition has shifted due
to people's confusion and ignorance.
Scout
Apr 2, 2013, 10:04:31 PM4/2/13
to
What Dudu doesn't tell you is that the rate didn't change because
registration was imposed. He simply tried to imply that any difference were
because of registration. Typical of his fundamental dishonesty.
Scout
Apr 2, 2013, 10:09:31 PM4/2/13
to
news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in Canada.
Strike 1.
Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
However, moving on....now show me that it works in Australia and Britain
because it seems to me that people are still being murdered by the use of a
firearm.
That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set. Nor
have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be directly
attributed to the national registry.
So what have you presented to show that it 'works' other than your empty
assertion.
Strike 1.
Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
However, moving on....now show me that it works in Australia and Britain
because it seems to me that people are still being murdered by the use of a
firearm.
That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set. Nor
have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be directly
attributed to the national registry.
So what have you presented to show that it 'works' other than your empty
assertion.
Baxter
Apr 2, 2013, 10:37:52 PM4/2/13
to
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>
> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>
>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close to
>> the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine. Also,
>> the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates between 43%
>> and 90%.
>
> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in Canada.
Only if you beleive the critics
>> the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine. Also,
>> the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates between 43%
>> and 90%.
>
> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in Canada.
>
> Strike 1.
>
> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
Nope. Because it does work elsewhere.
> Strike 1.
>
> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
>
> However, moving on....now show me that it works in Australia and Britain
> because it seems to me that people are still being murdered by the use of
> a firearm.
>
> That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set. Nor
> have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be directly
> attributed to the national registry.
>
That's your strawman.
> That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set. Nor
> have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be directly
> attributed to the national registry.
>
> So what have you presented to show that it 'works' other than your empty
> assertion.
registration doesn't work.
Scout
Apr 2, 2013, 10:43:44 PM4/2/13
to
news:kjg4lm$tc2$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Or are you saying I shouldn't believe you?
>>
>> Strike 1.
>>
>> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
>
> Nope. Because it does work elsewhere.
Cite
>> However, moving on....now show me that it works in Australia and Britain
>> because it seems to me that people are still being murdered by the use of
>> a firearm.
>
> At not nearly the rate as in the US.
Which doesn't show it's working, or even a factor in that.
>> That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set. Nor
>> have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be directly
>> attributed to the national registry.
>>
> That's your strawman.
Hmm... No, it's an observation of what you've said the registry would do,
and the fact that you've yet to show any proof that such a registry has
caused the result you assert has occurred.
IOW, back up your claims Baxter, or accept that we recognize they are
bullshit.
>> So what have you presented to show that it 'works' other than your empty
>> assertion.
>
> Apparently you seem to think that if there are any deaths by guns then
> registration doesn't work.
That's the standard YOU set.
Nor have you shown they have worked in causing any reduction.
So where is your evidence that they worked?
> -
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>
>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close to
>>> the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine. Also,
>>> the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates between
>>> 43% and 90%.
>>
>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in Canada.
>
> Only if you beleive the critics
So now you're a critic?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>
>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close to
>>> the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine. Also,
>>> the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates between
>>> 43% and 90%.
>>
>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in Canada.
>
> Only if you beleive the critics
Or are you saying I shouldn't believe you?
>>
>> Strike 1.
>>
>> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
>
> Nope. Because it does work elsewhere.
>> However, moving on....now show me that it works in Australia and Britain
>> because it seems to me that people are still being murdered by the use of
>> a firearm.
>
> At not nearly the rate as in the US.
>> That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set. Nor
>> have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be directly
>> attributed to the national registry.
>>
> That's your strawman.
and the fact that you've yet to show any proof that such a registry has
caused the result you assert has occurred.
IOW, back up your claims Baxter, or accept that we recognize they are
bullshit.
>> So what have you presented to show that it 'works' other than your empty
>> assertion.
>
> Apparently you seem to think that if there are any deaths by guns then
> registration doesn't work.
Nor have you shown they have worked in causing any reduction.
So where is your evidence that they worked?
RD Sandman
Apr 3, 2013, 1:46:27 PM4/3/13
to
"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
news:kjg4lm$tc2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Strike 1.
>>
>> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
>
> Nope. Because it does work elsewhere.
Where? Please be specific about what had been accomplished with it.
>> However, moving on....now show me that it works in Australia and
>> Britain because it seems to me that people are still being murdered
>> by the use of a firearm.
>
> At not nearly the rate as in the US.
True. They have less firearms per capita, but then so does Mexico.
>>
>> That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set.
>> Nor have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be
>> directly attributed to the national registry.
>>
> That's your strawman.
Nope. You were the one who said a registry worked and was a way to
reduce deaths.
>> So what have you presented to show that it 'works' other than your
>> empty assertion.
>
> Apparently you seem to think that if there are any deaths by guns then
> registration doesn't work.
What do you expect a registry to accomplish?
--
Democracy means that anyone can grow up to be President,
And anyone who doesn't grow up can be Vice President.
Sleep well, tonight.....
RD (The Sandman)
news:kjg4lm$tc2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>
>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close
>>> to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>> between 43% and 90%.
>>
>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>> Canada.
>
> Only if you beleive the critics
They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>
>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close
>>> to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>> between 43% and 90%.
>>
>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>> Canada.
>
> Only if you beleive the critics
>> Strike 1.
>>
>> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
>
> Nope. Because it does work elsewhere.
>> However, moving on....now show me that it works in Australia and
>> Britain because it seems to me that people are still being murdered
>> by the use of a firearm.
>
> At not nearly the rate as in the US.
>>
>> That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set.
>> Nor have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be
>> directly attributed to the national registry.
>>
> That's your strawman.
reduce deaths.
>> So what have you presented to show that it 'works' other than your
>> empty assertion.
>
> Apparently you seem to think that if there are any deaths by guns then
> registration doesn't work.
--
Democracy means that anyone can grow up to be President,
And anyone who doesn't grow up can be Vice President.
RD (The Sandman)
deep
Apr 3, 2013, 2:04:42 PM4/3/13
to
On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 12:46:27 -0500, RD Sandman
<rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
>news:kjg4lm$tc2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>> -
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------
>>
>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>
>>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close
>>>> to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>>> between 43% and 90%.
>>>
>>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>>> Canada.
>>
>> Only if you beleive the critics
>
>They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
>
They shut it down because they screwed it up, not because it was wrong
<rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
>news:kjg4lm$tc2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>> -
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------
>>
>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>
>>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close
>>>> to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>>> between 43% and 90%.
>>>
>>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>>> Canada.
>>
>> Only if you beleive the critics
>
>They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
>
in principle. It was fine in concept but failed in the
implementation.
>>> Strike 1.
>>>
>>> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
>>
>> Nope. Because it does work elsewhere.
>
>Where? Please be specific about what had been accomplished with it.
>
and Australia ALL have a MUCH lower death by firearm rate. Canada is
the highest of the three but still is less than half that of the US.
>>> However, moving on....now show me that it works in Australia and
>>> Britain because it seems to me that people are still being murdered
>>> by the use of a firearm.
>>
>> At not nearly the rate as in the US.
>
>True. They have less firearms per capita, but then so does Mexico.
>
lousy government, extreme poverty rates, drug trafficking, all lead to
a very high violence and death rate.
>>>
>>> That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set.
>>> Nor have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be
>>> directly attributed to the national registry.
>>>
>> That's your strawman.
>
>Nope. You were the one who said a registry worked and was a way to
>reduce deaths.
>
shouldn't have them. It is very unreasonable to demand total
effectiveness.
>>> So what have you presented to show that it 'works' other than your
>>> empty assertion.
>>
>> Apparently you seem to think that if there are any deaths by guns then
>> registration doesn't work.
>
>What do you expect a registry to accomplish?
moving a lot of guns in violation dealership restrictions.
Baxter
Apr 3, 2013, 2:12:27 PM4/3/13
to
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
news:XnsA1976D9A7...@216.196.121.131...
dead to show for it.
=======
Since the Assault Weapon Ban Expired, There Have Been 27 Mass Shootings in
the U.S.
http://tinyurl.com/dy3z2uk
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"RD Sandman" <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote in message
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
news:XnsA1976D9A7...@216.196.121.131...
>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>
>>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close
>>>> to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>>> between 43% and 90%.
>>>
>>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>>> Canada.
>>
>> Only if you beleive the critics
>
> They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
>
An in the US they ended the Assault Weapons Ban - and now we have multiple
>> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>
>>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close
>>>> to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>>> between 43% and 90%.
>>>
>>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>>> Canada.
>>
>> Only if you beleive the critics
>
> They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
>
dead to show for it.
=======
Since the Assault Weapon Ban Expired, There Have Been 27 Mass Shootings in
the U.S.
http://tinyurl.com/dy3z2uk
JohnJohnsn
Apr 3, 2013, 2:38:34 PM4/3/13
to
On Apr 3, 1:04 pm, Tiefe Scheiße <du...@vlillldm.dnc.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 12:46:27 -0500, RD Sandman
> <rdsandman@comcast,net> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 12:46:27 -0500, RD Sandman
>
>>"Baxter" wrote in
>>news:kjg4lm$tc2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>>>"Scout" <me4g...@verizon,net> wrote in message
>>> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>>> "Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>>>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close
>>>>> to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>>>> between 43% and 90%.
>
>>>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>>>> Canada.
>
>>> Only if you beleive the critics
>
>>They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
>
> They shut it down because they screwed it up, not because it was wrong
> in principle. It was fine in concept but failed in the implementation.
>
So, Scheißekopf, tell us again why Obama and Holder shut down THEIR
>
>>>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close
>>>>> to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>>>> between 43% and 90%.
>
>>>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>>>> Canada.
>
>>> Only if you beleive the critics
>
>>They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
>
> They shut it down because they screwed it up, not because it was wrong
> in principle. It was fine in concept but failed in the implementation.
>
op: "Fast and Furious."
Do the names Jaime Zapata and Brian Terry ring any bells?
http://www.salem-news.com/stimg/july092011/brian-jaime.jpg
That's an even BIGGER "screw up" than "OWR".
Even after that, Obama and Holder were responsible for even MORE
weapons getting into criminals' hands: "Operation Fearless
Distributing."
>
>>>> Strike 1.
>
>>>> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
>
>>> Nope. Because it does work elsewhere.
>
>>Where? Please be specific about what had been accomplished with it.
>
> All three other major English speaking nations, Canada, Great Britain
> and Australia ALL have a MUCH lower death by firearm rate. Canada is
> the highest of the three but still is less than half that of the US.
>
>>>> However, moving on....now show me that it works in Australia and
>>>> Britain because it seems to me that people are still being murdered
>>>> by the use of a firearm.
>
>>> At not nearly the rate as in the US.
>
>>True. They have less firearms per capita, but then so does Mexico.
>
> Mexico very poor choice for comparisons for a lot of reasons. Their
> lousy government, extreme poverty rates, drug trafficking, all lead to
> a very high violence and death rate.
>
And of course, the FACT that the citizenry is, for all practical
>>>> Strike 1.
>
>>>> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
>
>>> Nope. Because it does work elsewhere.
>
>>Where? Please be specific about what had been accomplished with it.
>
> All three other major English speaking nations, Canada, Great Britain
> and Australia ALL have a MUCH lower death by firearm rate. Canada is
> the highest of the three but still is less than half that of the US.
>
>>>> However, moving on....now show me that it works in Australia and
>>>> Britain because it seems to me that people are still being murdered
>>>> by the use of a firearm.
>
>>> At not nearly the rate as in the US.
>
>>True. They have less firearms per capita, but then so does Mexico.
>
> Mexico very poor choice for comparisons for a lot of reasons. Their
> lousy government, extreme poverty rates, drug trafficking, all lead to
> a very high violence and death rate.
>
purposes, DISARMED by THEIR government doesn't mean a thing; does it,
Scheißekopf?
>
>>>> That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set.
>>>> Nor have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be
>>>> directly attributed to the national registry.
>
>>> That's your strawman.
>
>> Nope. You were the one who said a registry worked and was a way to
>> reduce deaths.
>
> Obviously it will help control guns getting to SOME people who
> shouldn't have them. It is very unreasonable to demand total
> effectiveness.
>
Why not? All you VLILLLDMs try it with YOUR gun control rhetoric.
>>>> That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set.
>>>> Nor have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be
>>>> directly attributed to the national registry.
>
>>> That's your strawman.
>
>> Nope. You were the one who said a registry worked and was a way to
>> reduce deaths.
>
> Obviously it will help control guns getting to SOME people who
> shouldn't have them. It is very unreasonable to demand total
> effectiveness.
>
>
>>>> So what have you presented to show that it 'works' other than
>>>> your empty assertion.
>
>>> Apparently you seem to think that if there are any deaths by
>>> guns then registration doesn't work.
>
>> What do you expect a registry to accomplish?
>
> Well for one thing a registry of gun sales would tell you just who
> is moving a lot of guns in violation dealership restrictions.
>
"Dealership restrictions"???
>>>> So what have you presented to show that it 'works' other than
>>>> your empty assertion.
>
>>> Apparently you seem to think that if there are any deaths by
>>> guns then registration doesn't work.
>
>> What do you expect a registry to accomplish?
>
> Well for one thing a registry of gun sales would tell you just who
> is moving a lot of guns in violation dealership restrictions.
>
It's known as "violations of FEDERAL LAWS," Scheißekopf.
Typical VLILLLDM "cure": the current laws arent being enforced
effectively, so let's enact MORE ineffective laws!
“And to your point, Mr. Baker, regarding the lack of prosecutions on
lying on Form 4473s, we simply don’t have the time or manpower to
prosecute everybody who lies on a form, that checks a wrong box, that
answers a question inaccurately.”
--VPOTUS Joe "Plugs" Biden to NRA's James Baker
Juan Alderete
Apr 3, 2013, 3:22:23 PM4/3/13
to
"deep" wrote in message news:b0rol815r3j67f653...@4ax.com...
On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 12:46:27 -0500, RD Sandman
<rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
>news:kjg4lm$tc2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>> -
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------
>>
>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>
>>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close
>>>> to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>>> between 43% and 90%.
>>>
>>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>>> Canada.
>>
>> Only if you beleive the critics
>
>They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
>
They shut it down because they screwed it up, not because it was wrong
in principle. It was fine in concept but failed in the
implementation.
Duh!
But the concept failed BECAUSE it was a failure to begin with, you retard!
JohnJohnsn
Apr 3, 2013, 3:24:09 PM4/3/13
to
On Apr 3, 1:12 pm, "Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote:
>
>
>"RD Sandman" <rdsandman@comcast,net> wrote in message
> news:XnsA1976D9A7...@216.196.121.131...
>
>>"Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote in
>> news:kjg4lm$tc2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>>
>>>"Scout" <me4g...@verizon,net> wrote in message
>>> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>>>"Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
they conceal is vital."
--Aaron Levenstein
Nice attempt at PsyOp, Bax: post a link to an article with a
misleadiing title, hoping to add "street creds" to your failed gun
control propaganda mission.
NOWHERE in that article is there any evidence that each and every one
of these "27 mass shootings" involved an "assault weapon."
Try this one:
Assault-weapons ban no guarantee mass shootings would decrease, data
shows
...
Data published earlier this year showed that while the ban was in
place, from 1994 to 2004, the number of mass shootings actually rose
slightly during that period.
...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/24/history-gives-mixed-grade-to-impact-assault-weapons-ban/
Here's an even better, "on-point" article for you to "read and
compress," Baxter:
Bill Clinton’s over-the-top ‘fact’ on mass shootings
“Half of all mass killings in the United States have occurred since
the assault weapons ban expired in 2005, half of all of them in the
history of the country.”
---Former president Bill Clinton, at the Consumer Electronics Show in
Las Vegas, Jan. 9, 2013
...
[Grant Duwe, director of research and evaluation at the Minnesota
Department of Corrections] says that 2012 was certainly a horrific
year, but it is too early to tell if it signals an ominous trend. The
worst year for public shootings was in 1991, when eight incidents took
place, he said. With seven incidents, 2012 ranks second, along with
1999 — when the assault ban was in effect. (Duwe says his research
shows that assault weapons are used in a relatively small number of
cases, but they do result in far more wounded victims)
...
The Pinocchio Test
In the highly charged debate over guns, it is important for
politicians on both sides to get their facts straight. In this case,
the available data show that Clinton was way off base in his
assertion, making an exaggerated claim — which his office would not
even defend.
Ordinarily, this might have been a Four Pinocchio claim. Given the
fuzziness of the data and questions about definitions, we are going to
cut Clinton a bit of slack in the final ruling. But such uncertainty
in the data means politicians need to be very careful in making claims
about gun violence.
[Clinton's claim gets] Three Pinocchios
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/bill-clintons-over-the-top-fact-on-mass-shootings/2013/01/10/7040d61e-5b7a-11e2-9fa9-5fbdc9530eb9_blog.html
But Baxter gets FIVE "Pinocchios"!!!
>
>
>"RD Sandman" <rdsandman@comcast,net> wrote in message
> news:XnsA1976D9A7...@216.196.121.131...
>
>>"Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote in
>> news:kjg4lm$tc2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>>
>>>"Scout" <me4g...@verizon,net> wrote in message
>>> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>>>"Baxter" <bax...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>>>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too
>>>>> close to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>>>> between 43% and 90%.
>
>>>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>>>> Canada.
>
>>> Only if you beleive the critics
>
>> They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
>
> An in the US they ended the Assault Weapons Ban - and now we have multiple
> dead to show for it.
> =======
> Since the Assault Weapon Ban Expired, There
> Have Been 27 Mass Shootings in the U.S.
> http://tinyurl.com/dy3z2uk
>
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what
>
>>>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too
>>>>> close to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>>>> between 43% and 90%.
>
>>>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>>>> Canada.
>
>>> Only if you beleive the critics
>
>> They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
>
> An in the US they ended the Assault Weapons Ban - and now we have multiple
> dead to show for it.
> =======
> Since the Assault Weapon Ban Expired, There
> Have Been 27 Mass Shootings in the U.S.
> http://tinyurl.com/dy3z2uk
>
they conceal is vital."
--Aaron Levenstein
Nice attempt at PsyOp, Bax: post a link to an article with a
misleadiing title, hoping to add "street creds" to your failed gun
control propaganda mission.
NOWHERE in that article is there any evidence that each and every one
of these "27 mass shootings" involved an "assault weapon."
Try this one:
Assault-weapons ban no guarantee mass shootings would decrease, data
shows
...
Data published earlier this year showed that while the ban was in
place, from 1994 to 2004, the number of mass shootings actually rose
slightly during that period.
...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/24/history-gives-mixed-grade-to-impact-assault-weapons-ban/
Here's an even better, "on-point" article for you to "read and
compress," Baxter:
Bill Clinton’s over-the-top ‘fact’ on mass shootings
“Half of all mass killings in the United States have occurred since
the assault weapons ban expired in 2005, half of all of them in the
history of the country.”
---Former president Bill Clinton, at the Consumer Electronics Show in
Las Vegas, Jan. 9, 2013
...
[Grant Duwe, director of research and evaluation at the Minnesota
Department of Corrections] says that 2012 was certainly a horrific
year, but it is too early to tell if it signals an ominous trend. The
worst year for public shootings was in 1991, when eight incidents took
place, he said. With seven incidents, 2012 ranks second, along with
1999 — when the assault ban was in effect. (Duwe says his research
shows that assault weapons are used in a relatively small number of
cases, but they do result in far more wounded victims)
...
The Pinocchio Test
In the highly charged debate over guns, it is important for
politicians on both sides to get their facts straight. In this case,
the available data show that Clinton was way off base in his
assertion, making an exaggerated claim — which his office would not
even defend.
Ordinarily, this might have been a Four Pinocchio claim. Given the
fuzziness of the data and questions about definitions, we are going to
cut Clinton a bit of slack in the final ruling. But such uncertainty
in the data means politicians need to be very careful in making claims
about gun violence.
[Clinton's claim gets] Three Pinocchios
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/bill-clintons-over-the-top-fact-on-mass-shootings/2013/01/10/7040d61e-5b7a-11e2-9fa9-5fbdc9530eb9_blog.html
But Baxter gets FIVE "Pinocchios"!!!
RD Sandman
Apr 3, 2013, 4:18:19 PM4/3/13
to
deep wrote in news:b0rol815r3j67f653...@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 12:46:27 -0500, RD Sandman
> <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
>>news:kjg4lm$tc2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>>
>>> -
>>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
>>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------------
>>>
>>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>>
>>>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close
>>>>> to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>>>> between 43% and 90%.
>>>>
>>>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>>>> Canada.
>>>
>>> Only if you beleive the critics
>>
>>They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
>>
> They shut it down because they screwed it up, not because it was wrong
> in principle. It was fine in concept but failed in the
> implementation.
Over 50% non compliance can do that to a database.
>>>> Strike 1.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
>>>
>>> Nope. Because it does work elsewhere.
>>
>>Where? Please be specific about what had been accomplished with it.
>>
> All three other major English speaking nations, Canada, Great Britain
> and Australia ALL have a MUCH lower death by firearm rate.
Which doesn't have a damn thing to do with a registration database. All
three of those nations have a much lower rate of violent crime than we
do.
Canada is
> the highest of the three but still is less than half that of the US.
Are you going to go on record and state it will drastically climb now
that the registry is history?
>>>> However, moving on....now show me that it works in Australia and
>>>> Britain because it seems to me that people are still being murdered
>>>> by the use of a firearm.
>>>
>>> At not nearly the rate as in the US.
>>
>>True. They have less firearms per capita, but then so does Mexico.
>>
> Mexico very poor choice for comparisons for a lot of reasons. Their
> lousy government, extreme poverty rates, drug trafficking, all lead to
> a very high violence and death rate.
Additionally, they have very strict gun control for their citizens and
only gun store in the entire country. It is in Mexico City and is run by
the Mexican army. Or are finally admitting that there is a lot more to
violent crime than simply owning a gun?
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set.
>>>> Nor have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be
>>>> directly attributed to the national registry.
>>>>
>>> That's your strawman.
>>
>>Nope. You were the one who said a registry worked and was a way to
>>reduce deaths.
>>
> Obviously it will help control guns getting to SOME people who
> shouldn't have them.
Just how will it do that? Obviously to be in the registry one had to be
a legal, honest gun owner to begin with. Now how will that registry
control me from getting a gun if I suddenly become a felon?
It is very unreasonable to demand total
> effectiveness.
Then keep that in mind when you are pissing and moaning about having
teachers, administrators or maintenance folks with CCW permits carrying
in a school.
>>>> So what have you presented to show that it 'works' other than your
>>>> empty assertion.
>>>
>>> Apparently you seem to think that if there are any deaths by guns
then
>>> registration doesn't work.
>>
>>What do you expect a registry to accomplish?
>
> Well for one thing a registry of gun sales would tell you just who is
> moving a lot of guns in violation dealership restrictions.
No, it won't. If the person is violating restrictions you think he will
be placing those guns in the database or that the folks buying them will?
> On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 12:46:27 -0500, RD Sandman
> <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
>>news:kjg4lm$tc2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>>
>>> -
>>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
>>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------------
>>>
>>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>>
>>>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close
>>>>> to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>>>> between 43% and 90%.
>>>>
>>>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>>>> Canada.
>>>
>>> Only if you beleive the critics
>>
>>They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
>>
> They shut it down because they screwed it up, not because it was wrong
> in principle. It was fine in concept but failed in the
> implementation.
>>>> Strike 1.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
>>>
>>> Nope. Because it does work elsewhere.
>>
>>Where? Please be specific about what had been accomplished with it.
>>
> All three other major English speaking nations, Canada, Great Britain
> and Australia ALL have a MUCH lower death by firearm rate.
three of those nations have a much lower rate of violent crime than we
do.
Canada is
> the highest of the three but still is less than half that of the US.
that the registry is history?
>>>> However, moving on....now show me that it works in Australia and
>>>> Britain because it seems to me that people are still being murdered
>>>> by the use of a firearm.
>>>
>>> At not nearly the rate as in the US.
>>
>>True. They have less firearms per capita, but then so does Mexico.
>>
> Mexico very poor choice for comparisons for a lot of reasons. Their
> lousy government, extreme poverty rates, drug trafficking, all lead to
> a very high violence and death rate.
only gun store in the entire country. It is in Mexico City and is run by
the Mexican army. Or are finally admitting that there is a lot more to
violent crime than simply owning a gun?
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set.
>>>> Nor have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be
>>>> directly attributed to the national registry.
>>>>
>>> That's your strawman.
>>
>>Nope. You were the one who said a registry worked and was a way to
>>reduce deaths.
>>
> Obviously it will help control guns getting to SOME people who
> shouldn't have them.
a legal, honest gun owner to begin with. Now how will that registry
control me from getting a gun if I suddenly become a felon?
It is very unreasonable to demand total
> effectiveness.
teachers, administrators or maintenance folks with CCW permits carrying
in a school.
>>>> So what have you presented to show that it 'works' other than your
>>>> empty assertion.
>>>
>>> Apparently you seem to think that if there are any deaths by guns
then
>>> registration doesn't work.
>>
>>What do you expect a registry to accomplish?
>
> Well for one thing a registry of gun sales would tell you just who is
> moving a lot of guns in violation dealership restrictions.
be placing those guns in the database or that the folks buying them will?
RD Sandman
Apr 3, 2013, 4:34:56 PM4/3/13
to
"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
news:kjhrdg$eic$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
And while it was in place,
Notice in this cite that the majority of those (71) since 1982 were done
with a handgun which wasn't affected by the 1994 AWB. Only 20 of those
were done with a rifle, much less and assault weapon.
This may be interesting reading for you:
http://tinyurl.com/a2zpont
Oh, BTW, again you didn't answer the questions put to you. Keep that up
and you will have a date with my Bozo Bin.
Here was one:
>> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
>
> Nope. Because it does work elsewhere.
Where? Please be specific about what had been accomplished with it.
Here was another:
news:kjhrdg$eic$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
> -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Notice in this cite that the majority of those (71) since 1982 were done
with a handgun which wasn't affected by the 1994 AWB. Only 20 of those
were done with a rifle, much less and assault weapon.
This may be interesting reading for you:
http://tinyurl.com/a2zpont
Oh, BTW, again you didn't answer the questions put to you. Keep that up
and you will have a date with my Bozo Bin.
Here was one:
>> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
>
> Nope. Because it does work elsewhere.
Where? Please be specific about what had been accomplished with it.
Scout
Apr 3, 2013, 6:26:38 PM4/3/13
to
"deep" wrote in message news:b0rol815r3j67f653...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 12:46:27 -0500, RD Sandman
> <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
>>news:kjg4lm$tc2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>>
>>> -
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------------
>>>
>>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>>
>>>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close
>>>>> to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>>>> between 43% and 90%.
>>>>
>>>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>>>> Canada.
>>>
>>> Only if you beleive the critics
>>
>>They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
>>
> They shut it down because they screwed it up, not because it was wrong
> in principle. It was fine in concept but failed in the
> implementation.
Sort of like how democratic socialism is great in concept but always fails
> <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>"Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in
>>news:kjg4lm$tc2$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>>
>>> -
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------- Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------------
>>>
>>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:kjg2sg$nqn$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> "Baxter" <baxter.s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kjf0kr$vtv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>>
>>>>> They only registered some guns instead of all. Canada is too close
>>>>> to the US - gun registry in Australia and Britain is working fine.
>>>>> Also, the Canadian registry database was corrupt - with error rates
>>>>> between 43% and 90%.
>>>>
>>>> So basically, you agree that the national registry didn't work in
>>>> Canada.
>>>
>>> Only if you beleive the critics
>>
>>They shut it down and discontinued it. That tends to give you a clue.
>>
> They shut it down because they screwed it up, not because it was wrong
> in principle. It was fine in concept but failed in the
> implementation.
during attempts to implement it?
I will simply acknowledge your admission that Baxter is wrong and that it
hasn't worked as he claimed.
>>>> Strike 1.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and it means that your hypothesis (ie claim) is toast.
>>>
>>> Nope. Because it does work elsewhere.
>>
>>Where? Please be specific about what had been accomplished with it.
>>
> All three other major English speaking nations, Canada, Great Britain
> and Australia ALL have a MUCH lower death by firearm rate.
Are you now suggesting that speaking English is now a key factor in homicide
rates by firearms?
If that's the case, then maybe we need to organize a push to require
everyone in the US to speak English all the time so that we can reduce our
homicide rates by firearms?
Oh, and "Correlation does not imply causality."
Nor does that establish that a national registry caused those low rates, so
you still haven't supported the claim made.
> Canada is
> the highest of the three but still is less than half that of the US.
Oh, that's right according to you it was a failure.
Maybe you will have to come up with the real cause(s) for the difference in
rates?
>>>> However, moving on....now show me that it works in Australia and
>>>> Britain because it seems to me that people are still being murdered
>>>> by the use of a firearm.
>>>
>>> At not nearly the rate as in the US.
>>
>>True. They have less firearms per capita, but then so does Mexico.
>>
> Mexico very poor choice for comparisons for a lot of reasons.
made.
> Their
> lousy government, extreme poverty rates, drug trafficking, all lead to
> a very high violence and death rate.
by gun control laws or even national registries, but a number of other
social, economic and political factors.
So why are we wasting time looking at gun control?
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't seem to be 'working' according to the standard you set.
>>>> Nor have you shown any decrease in rate of murder that can be
>>>> directly attributed to the national registry.
>>>>
>>> That's your strawman.
>>
>>Nope. You were the one who said a registry worked and was a way to
>>reduce deaths.
>>
> Obviously it will help control guns getting to SOME people who
> shouldn't have them. It is very unreasonable to demand total
> effectiveness.
Does it exist in Mexico?
Can you show us proof of this effectiveness by establishing causality?
>>>> So what have you presented to show that it 'works' other than your
>>>> empty assertion.
>>>
>>> Apparently you seem to think that if there are any deaths by guns then
>>> registration doesn't work.
>>
>>What do you expect a registry to accomplish?
>
> Well for one thing a registry of gun sales would tell you just who is
> moving a lot of guns in violation dealership restrictions.
without the infringement of our rights in the process.
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