Where is the Optibike headed?

[Randi Sparkler]

It seems to me that there is a division in the function of
thepreferred ebike emerging from the members of this forum (despite
all being riders who want excellent quality, high performing, reliable
machines and don’t have the time or inclination to create an amazing
homebuilt).

Opti is well placed to retain the beauty of efficiency over the likes
of Stealth. By this I'm thinking of both the efficiency coming from
the synergistic effects of man and machine as well as the bikes
balance and geometry. There is no need to repeat here the often
lauded qualities resulting from the very clever MBB (and Rohloff hub
etc) working with a typically optimal rider cadence nor the beauty of
this bikes weight being kept low, central and largely away from the
wheels.

From what I am reading, it appears that while this is very appealing
to many but there is a significant element who are more into the
performance of the machine alone. To a large degree it seems this can
only come from more powerful bikes and/or fitting higher specified
parts (such as suspension) to compensate for design inefficiencies
such as increased unsprung weight and increased rotating mass. I
suspect in future we may come to recognise this latter group of people
as the electric version of a petrol head. PLEASE NOTE: That’s an
observation not a criticism! I have ridden both the Bomber and
Fighter. They are beautiful, well made bikes and I would add both to
my collection in an electronic flash if circumstances were different.
(probably the imminent Hurricane too - whatever that may be).

I suspect Pikes Peak in future years will graphically emphasis this
differentiation. I can imagine the likes of Stealth soon whipping
Optis arses on time/average speed but they will be hard pressed to
beat Opti on power to weight ratio. The way I see it, there is an
oppourtunity for Opti to capitalise on these differences and firmly
niche itself.

I have not ridden an Opti with the new auxiliary battery/carry rack
(or sadly an 1100R for that matter) but imagine handling will be
compromised - especially off road. That second battery was clearly a
simple addition I so can understand why its been developed however I
would be worried for Optibike, with its very special market niche, if
they did not concentrate on maintaining the original philosophy of the
beautifully balanced machine we have known to date.

I do think it could be a good time for Opti to produce that efficient
no fuss 'aero' model for the commuter/road only user. I could see this
as being: reduced weight with no suspension, 700c wheels, discs front
and rear, belt drive, Rohloff hub (or other lighter weight integral
hub gears with a MBB powered to suit) and an easy swap-out battery.
(Removable battery means more choices of where/how to charge –
currently a pain - plus the chance to have two batteries with one on
charge at each end of the commute journey.) I for one would make room
in my garage for something like that.

RS

[lowco2]

RS,
Excellent points, all. I very much agree that there is this line we
are beginning to scratch between an ebike and an electric motorcycle.
To me one of the absolutely key things about the Optibike is the
integrtion between the rider and the motor. I really prefer the term
electric-assist bike because it makes the point that it's a bike,
meant to be pedaled, that has an assist to the rider. I was a bit
disappointed to read on the ES someone's post about Pikes that
altitude doesn't matter since he wouldn't be pedaling. That, to me, is
over the line and now we are talking about a motorcycle. Since I ride
my Optibike mostly on the road it would be fun to see what you
describe in terms of fast road bike powered by the MBB. On the other
hand, running on the sometimes rough roads I have to deal with, I like
my 2" tires and suspension that I can lock out. I guess that's the
difference between uses -- an all out speed machine vs a daily
commuter.
Lastly, I wanted to add to your point about being more concerned with
the performance of the machine alone. This may be driving the interest
in the CA. I'm more interested in what I'm doing which is why I ride
with a heart rate monitor, and not a CA. And why I'm excited to see
the new garmin power-measuring pedals. I'm not claiming one is better
than the other, but I still go back to the "bike" part of the term
electric bike.
Speaking of which, I'm sitting at the prep are for the Great Tahoe
Flume Race. About to get some great trails under my tires. Mountain
bike tires. All legs and lungs today.
John

[ElectricDirt]

The Great Tahoe Flume Race, that would be a fun ride with the Opti. I
think my first time on the flume was 1985-86. Those were the days.

[ElectricDirt]

Oh and where was all the other Elec Bike people? That was the only
dissappointing part of the Pikes Peak event. Cluk Cluk Cluk thats the
sound I think I hear.

[Nimbuzz]

Well, Here's the comment that never gets answered about hub motors. I
have a Tidalforce 1,000 watt 750X. When these bikes came out about 6
years ago they were very exciting state of the art. They are very well
made bikes with some still running. Most of them would probably be
running except it was concluded by the guys on the very active
Tidalforce forum that the big hub motors and the Tidalforce
regeneration killed batteries--How much the battery death was due to
too much regen and how much was high draw that comes from ungeared hub
motors is still the question--but both are apparently to blame.
As I understand it a hub motor can be very efficient at speed = 20
mph
and above (My Tidalforce was about as fast as my Opti 800 = 30 mph (no
pedaling, flat, no wind) However at lower speeds it is much less
efficient as the motor has no gear advantage. Starting up for a stop
which starts out at one rpm can have a huge draw on the battery (45
amps) which, though momentary is very hard on batteries. The high
level of regen was also hard on batteries as it was charging
them at 10 or 20 amps--A Nimh battery should be charged at 4 amps max.
So between the high draw from stop and the regen most of us guys on
the forum killed several batteries in the first several years. These
batteries were very expensive and we quit riding for this reason. Some
who only required light use on the flat with few stops and little
regen had acceptable battery longevity. Myself riding over a mountain
with high draw and high regen have several thousand dollar$ of dead
batteries and had to stop riding the Hub motored Tidalforce. This was
sad because all of us otherwise, really like the bikes.
One member who posts here (Deerfencer) still rides his Tidalforce hard
and often. However he is buying new batteries every several years in
hopes of finding packs that can take the stress/abuse. He also uses
three packs in parallel so the voltage remains 36 but the draw and
regen are significantly reduced when shared by each pack. Well, three
battery packs is expensive and heavy so not many peeps are doing that
as the bike gets close to 90 lbs and the three packs cost about $500
each-- and, so far, still must be replaced every several years.

Enter Optibike with a three year battery warranty--This is why I'm
here.
So all of us Tidalforce guys were on the forum many times a week and
watched sadly as our beloved bikes died out from under us. We were so
enthusiastic in the beginning--and for a couple of years.
Now it is funny/weird to watch people being all excited about the
Stealth hub motored Bomber and Fighter when the jury is still
completely out about the battery longevity. The Stealth performance
specs are impressive and exciting however nobody is speaking about
the definite possibility that hard use = continuous starting and
stopping and riding slower (5 - 18 mph) up hill, will kill the packs.
I'll tell
ya, even if the bike is fun, cool and exciting the second time a
$1,500 pack dies in less than two years is about it. People talk
about
good gas mileage--but how many times could a SUV drive across the us
with $3000 worth of gas?? = about 4 times or 12,000 miles @ $4/gal.
So let's hear an answer for once--have the Stealth bikes been tested
for long term battery longevity? If anyone is confused about the
difference, the Optibike's motor is running at high rpm through the 9
gears allowing the motor to run in its most efficient range at all
speeds thus reducing the draw on the battery significantly, allowing
Opti batteries to last and allowing Opti to provide a solid 3 yr
warranty. A hub motor is running at 1 rpm when starting up and must
get up to 20 mph to reach the sweet spot of efficiency. Even an
Optibike battery pack will die if used with a hub motor. I'm rooting
for the new battery technology that will eliminate this problem but I
don't think it's here yet.

So what does Stealth say to this? Me thinks that perhaps this is why
Stealth (or any hub motor) did not show at Pike's Peak. They all talk
about their impressive speed, power and acceleration but a long run
uphill might be too much for them. I'll try to post this question on
the Stealth forum and send the question to a Stealth dealer. I'm not
attacking them but I am shopping for a bike and this is what stops me
from looking further at the otherwise impressive Stealth machines.
Though Cakey also pointed out that Stealth has inferior suspension to
Opti's Fox set up.

[remf]

Having both Opti & Stealth bikes (still got an Opti in pieces ready for overvolting), I could possibly shed some light without speaking for either Opti or Stealth. In my mind, they are the 2 best bikes available anywhere. Which one to choose? Depends on how fast you want to go, your required range, maximum gradient you want to climb and how much you want to spend.

The Stealth Fighter is very quiet, just a barely audible whine, weighs 75 lb., will hit 43 mph and accelerate very quickly to top speed with 2 gears, there aren't any gear changes. It'll go for at least 25 miles up steep, rolling hills though much further on flats with moderate to maximum effort. Price is $7,900. I've been putting my Bomber through constant battery torture for the last year, not a hiccup. I only just got the Fighter, no issues at all for me or any of the many dozens of owners of much older Fighters.

The Opti 1100R, not having ridden it but I assume it has the same audible motor noise as the 850, weighs 60 lb, will apparently do 35-37 mph, accelerates slower through the gears but this allows it to climb gradients that are difficult to walk up and gives it a superior range. Price will be at least $13,200. In 6 years of Opti ownership, I never had a single fault.

Bottom line: both bikes are winners. Pick one or both :)

[Nimbuzz]

Again, Nary a mention of the battery longevity question described in
detail in the previous post.

> ...
>
> read more »

[Elect Bike]

Regarding Nimbuz's battery theory

The difference between $8000 and $13,000 plus , is $5000! I can
replace the battery twice in 4 years for that amount of money, and
with battery technology getting better yearly, why not? I aplaud opti
for having a great battery , but Nimbuz's line of thinking don't cut
it with me. : ) One other thing, if either of these companies had a
distributor by my house, that would also be a deciding factor. I can
figure out almost anything if I put my mind to it, but I don't have
the desire to start troubleshooting an electronic problem on my mode
of transportation , what a buzz kill !!
I would prefer to just take the bike to a shop, and have them fix it
right.
Reading about some of these electronic problems, and the time invested
fixing them, gives me pause.
Stealth is starting a distributor network, I personally would like to
see opti do the same. I'll pay the sales tax, who cares! For $13,000 I
want my bike fixed fast and correctly if there is an electronic issue
( or mechanical ). Drop the doe and get riding ASAP.
Also , my everyday ride is not pikes peak, ya know what I mean : ) ?
Regarding others showing up to the race, where was the incentive? I
don't recall the $5000 challenge being offered this year. Why would
Joe Shmoe bike owner , lug their bike across the nation, take time off
work, pay for a hotel, etc.? If stealth had a race in Australia, would
opti show up? ; )
But, darn good time opti, I mean that, I'm just not suprised that few
showed up.
All that being said, the new 1100 is still very exiciting and I'm
contemplating getting it, good job opti.

On Sep 11, 3:05 am, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ...
>
> read more »

[remf]

It's difficult to comment on battery longevity on a new bike with a new generation LiFePO4 battery but anecdotal evidence suggests there hasn't been a single failure on dozens of Fighter batteries in over a year of, in many cases, hard abuse. There's a 12 month warranty on all Stealth batteries.

As for the Optibike battery, well. I can't say I haven't heard of any failures but these too are likely brand new batteries as the Cool Carbon feature would suggest with better thermal characteristics. Where Optibike really inspires confidence is the 3 year pro-rata warranty though my OB1 was so reliable, there was no need to worry.

With shipping restrictions on bare lithium batteries, the warranty mans little if it cannot be returned though overseas HAZMAT shipping restrictions on lithium batteries seem to be nullified if shipped inside the original equipment I.e. the frame, so hopefully this in effect means a global warranty.

[lowco2]

Not to get too geographical, but if Stealth held a race in Australia
where would they race? Kosciuszko is only 7,310' above MSL. That's
less than the gain at Pike's. :-)
Not many challenges can meet that of Pike's.
Yes, not many of us commute daily op Pike's (too bad, it would be
fun).
However, not many of us drive our cars at their limits either. I know
I don't. I also don't want a car that can only just make my commute,
if you know what I mean. Races, tests, whatever you want to call them
are there to test the upper limits, not the daily routine. The way I
see it is if the Opti can make Pike's, it'll laugh at my commute.
--John

On Sep 11, 7:56 pm, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's difficult to comment on battery longevity on a new bike with a new generation LiFePO4 battery but anecdotal evidence suggests there hasn't been a single failure on dozens of Fighter batteries in over a year of, in many cases, hard abuse. There's a 12 month warranty on all Stealth batteries.
>
> As for the Optibike battery, well. I can't say I haven't heard of any failures but these too are likely brand new batteries as the Cool Carbon feature would suggest with better thermal characteristics. Where Optibike really inspires confidence is the 3 year pro-rata warranty though my OB1 was so reliable, there was no need to worry.
>
> With shipping restrictions on bare lithium batteries, the warranty mans little if it cannot be returned though overseas HAZMAT shipping restrictions on lithium batteries seem to be nullified if shipped inside the original equipment I.e. the frame, so hopefully this in effect means a global warranty.
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[remf]

LOL very true John, nothing like Pikes here but there's definitely very challenging trails throughout the High Country and Alpine regions of NSW and Victoria. Someone should organise the eTour - the perfect escape from a harsh northern winter :)

[Elect Bike]

Ouch
Them sound like fight'n words John ; ) no place worth while to race in
down under ???
Don't piss off Remf John ; )
I'll tell ya this much , I can't think of anyone who has done more to
push the limits of both the Optibike , and Stealth, and to do us all
a favor by posting them regularly, than Remf. Now ya go and dis his
country John ? ; ) not good : )

> ...
>
> read more »

[lowco2]

No diss intended, just a geographical fact.
Besides, I very much like the idea remf proposed of a summer race in
Austrailia and a summer race in Colorado. I'd love it.
And, of course, I know what remf has done.
Cheers,
John

> ...
>
> read more »

[Elect Bike]

Is the 1100 a larger motor or are they just pushing more Volts thru
the previous motor?

> ...
>
> read more »

[Bike_On]

I think Optibike is headed in the right direction. Every change they
have made has been key performance and high quality additions. It
would be great if the price was heading down...someday maybe.
Dan

[remf]

Forgot to say, great post RS.

"I do think it could be a good time  for Opti to produce that efficient
no fuss 'aero' model for the commuter/road only user. I could see this
as being: reduced weight with no suspension, 700c wheels, discs front
and rear, belt drive, Rohloff hub (or other lighter weight integral
hub gears with a MBB powered to suit) and an easy swap-out battery.
(Removable battery means more choices of where/how to charge –
currently a pain -  plus the chance to have two batteries with one  on
charge at each end of the commute journey.) I for one would make room
in my garage for something like that."

Maybe something like this?

450W 13.3 kg Titanium frame BB belt drive with Kinetic Energy Recovery electric braking and selective coasting function, and energy recovery whenever a higher heart-rate is desired. Control logic concept with Torqrank torque-feedback, heart-rate based programming, and uphill launch control. Compatibility with fixed-gear, multispeed rear hubs to multiply output torque and obtain desired pedaling cadence.

http://www.nevi.it/ebike.php

On 10/09/2011, at 5:33 PM, Randi Sparkler <taylor...@gmail.com> wrote:

[remf]

[Covert Rider10]

Tidy little unit. 

On 12/09/2011, at 4:56 PM, remf <opti...@gmail.com> wrote:

<1315396079958-1dntyflu3em4b-500-90-500-70.jpg>

[Randi Sparkler]

Hey, thats good! (still a mountain bike tho?)

On Sep 12, 4:30 pm, Covert Rider10 <covertride...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tidy little unit.
>

> On 12/09/2011, at 4:56 PM, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > <1315396079958-1dntyflu3em4b-500-90-500-70.jpg>
> > Forgot to say, great post RS.
>
> > "I do think it could be a good time  for Opti to produce that efficient
> > no fuss 'aero' model for the commuter/road only user. I could see this
> > as being: reduced weight with no suspension, 700c wheels, discs front
> > and rear, belt drive, Rohloff hub (or other lighter weight integral
> > hub gears with a MBB powered to suit) and an easy swap-out battery.
> > (Removable battery means more choices of where/how to charge –
> > currently a pain -  plus the chance to have two batteries with one  on
> > charge at each end of the commute journey.) I for one would make room
> > in my garage for something like that."
>
> > Maybe something like this?
>
> > 450W 13.3 kg Titanium frame BB belt drive with Kinetic Energy Recovery electric braking and selective coasting function, and energy recovery whenever a higher heart-rate is desired. Control logic concept with Torqrank torque-feedback, heart-rate based programming, and uphill launch control. Compatibility with fixed-gear, multispeed rear hubs to multiply output torque and obtain desired pedaling cadence.
>
> >http://www.nevi.it/ebike.php
>

[Nimbuzz]

" but Nimbuz's line of thinking don't cut it with me"

--This response does not address the question at all. It's not a line
of thinking but a simple question. This question has also been sent
to
Stealth dealers and they are also, so far, unable to address the
question. I even asked them specifically "has Stealth done any
research on battery longevity under hard riding conditions?" So far
they don't answer the simple question but provide short shots like
the
one above. I'll give a few more days since it's the weekend for
responses to come in.

Opti's battery may not be any better but the overall system may be
better for battery longevity--the concept of the high draw hub motor
system stressing batteries has been explained in detail and is
awaiting a real response.

It is understandable that one could replace the Stealth battery
several times for the difference in price between a Stealth and Ooti.
This suggests that hub motors' high draw does kill packs but that
they can be replaced.

Attempting to justify Stealths not participating in PP with the
question "Would Opti race if the contest were in Oz?" is easy--
There are a number of dealers in the US and the distributor of
"Stealth USA" is in Arizona!

I think the Stealths look like strong bikes but so far it seems their
power comes at a price in that the big un-geared hub motors, if used
hard like in their ads, will eat up batteries--which can be replaced.
Cakey has pointed out that for him to do Opti type off road riding he
would have to replace the Stealth lower end suspension with Fox and
that he has a lot of experience with this. It seems the Stealth has
it's place and deserves respect but this discussion is also justifying
the Opti's higher price for those who want higher performance in
certain areas. Stealth has higher top speed, heavier weight, shorter
battery life--Opti has better long hill climbing, battery life, better
suspension and higher price.

> ...
>
> read more »

[Bike_On]

Uncle Al,

IMO, when it comes to batteries, NOBODY wants to say too much.
Battery systems are the weak link and key for a good system (as you
and others know and have spent big $$).

I tried to improve my battery situation, beginningin MArch so I could
have a great aux battery option. Now I have an expensive weight in my
garage that needs fixed..by me. (not dead, broken) Worst of all,
missing good riding days to enjoy it...

I think OEMs protect themselves and rightly so.... Stealth has been
mute about the Battery Voltage , C rating, etc... To me, the secretcy
over design secrets is a turn off. I like to know what I am buying.

Nice posts and good job keeping them honest.

D

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Bike_On]

Good post RS. Just to add to the commuter idea.... This is a good
chance to do it different IF it is kept super light. A smaller
battery perhaps with an aux option. Like John, I like my suspension I
can lock or use at will. However, a stiff framed, <45lb Opti, going
30 mph on road bars is attractive.

On Sep 12, 2:56 am, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Forgot to say, great post RS.
>
> "I do think it could be a good time  for Opti to produce that efficient
> no fuss 'aero' model for the commuter/road only user. I could see this
> as being: reduced weight with no suspension, 700c wheels, discs front
> and rear, belt drive, Rohloff hub (or other lighter weight integral
> hub gears with a MBB powered to suit) and an easy swap-out battery.
> (Removable battery means more choices of where/how to charge –
> currently a pain -  plus the chance to have two batteries with one  on
> charge at each end of the commute journey.) I for one would make room
> in my garage for something like that."
>
> Maybe something like this?
>
> 450W 13.3 kg Titanium frame BB belt drive with Kinetic Energy Recovery electric braking and selective coasting function, and energy recovery whenever a higher heart-rate is desired. Control logic concept with Torqrank torque-feedback, heart-rate based programming, and uphill launch control. Compatibility with fixed-gear, multispeed rear hubs to multiply output torque and obtain desired pedaling cadence.
>
> http://www.nevi.it/ebike.php
>

> On 10/09/2011, at 5:33 PM, Randi Sparkler <taylorjam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I do think it could be a good time  for Opti to produce that efficient
> > no fuss 'aero' model for the commuter/road only user. I could see this
> > as being: reduced weight with no suspension, 700c wheels, discs front
> > and rear, belt drive, Rohloff hub (or other lighter weight integral
> > hub gears with a MBB powered to suit) and an easy swap-out battery.
> > (Removable battery means more choices of where/how to charge –
> > currently a pain -  plus the chance to have two batteries with one  on
> > charge at each end of the commute journey.) I for one would make room

> > in my garage for something like that.- Hide quoted text -

[Covert Rider10]

C'mon. Mine is getting pretty close to a roadie: http://s1121.photobucket.com/albums/l506/covertrider10/?action=view&current=501c686b.jpg&evt=user_media_share

[lowco2]

Very true, your bike is set up as a roadie. But are you? Do you shave
your legs and only wear skin-tight lycra kits? How about aero shoe
covers and one of those aero TT helmets?
I guess you could still replace the suspension fork with a rigid and
add aero bars like Dan. Then pull the rear shock, put in a piece of
aluminum bar stock.... Ah, the possibilities. :-)
--John

On Sep 12, 2:47 pm, Covert Rider10 <covertride...@gmail.com> wrote:
> C'mon. Mine is getting pretty close to a roadie:http://s1121.photobucket.com/albums/l506/covertrider10/?action=view&c...

[Covert Rider10]

Tempting. I have all of those things except for the shaved legs.

[USV]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density ....this is the main
problem with batteries...not to mention $$$$$$...
a "light" battery electric bicycle = a slow e-bikey with a tiny
battery, really poor range & fragile unreliable mechanical bits often
made of "hardened" composite nylon...another oxymoron ; )

Filling all the tiny high-end e-bike niches without retooling is a
smart & wise marketing/monetary strategy. The MBB is a beautiful
design, but as with any design, incremental improvements can always be
added.

What I would like to see with their higher power premium models is the
add some CNC water cooling bits : )

[Nicholas Turner]

I would like to point out that if your ebike needs water cooling, you have way too much loss.

Well designed systems won't need more than air cooling

[Nimbuzz]

On an 850 I can ride 4 miles climbing 1,600 ft and the motor is not
warm = there is absolutely no need for water cooling and I'm not sure
why it would be suggested to add the significant extra weight and
complexity?? I agree with Nick that the need for cooling shows an
inefficient system.

This is the beauty of the MBB going through the 9 or 14 speed tranny--
it runs in its sweet spot and does not strain the motor or battery.

[USV]

Higher power...ie: http://www.youtube.com/falcosparverius1#p/a/u/1/XhZhmj3gREg.
Based on the answers above, I guess Opti has no plans to develop
higher power models...ie: more than 1500W.

> > Well designed systems won't need more than air cooling- Hide quoted text -

[deerfencer]

"One member who posts here (Deerfencer) still rides his Tidalforce
hard
and often. However he is buying new batteries every several years in
hopes of finding packs that can take the stress/abuse. He also uses
three packs in parallel so the voltage remains 36 but the draw and
regen are significantly reduced when shared by each pack. Well, three
battery packs is expensive and heavy so not many peeps are doing that
as the bike gets close to 90 lbs and the three packs cost about $500
each-- and, so far, still must be replaced every several years. "

Al,

Good post but one (huge) correction: This last triple 37V 24Ah lipoly
pack I spliced together this spring cost me $535 TOTAL from HobbyKing,
and is by far the best I've seen performance and spec-wise. I'm seeing
1400-1500W up the first few hills off a fresh charge and 1200W an hour
later. About .8V sag at max demand, which is remarkable, and I've yet
to feel the packs get more than mildly warm. If I get two seasons out
of it, that's about $275 year, less than most annual health club
memberships--and a hell of a lot more fun.

That said, I share your suspicions re the longevity of the Stealth
packs, and only time will tell. Let's hope the recent advances in high
performance lithium batteries keep us all riding long and strong into
the future.

LH

> for long term battery longevity? If anyone is confused about the
> difference, the Optibike's motor is running at high rpm through the 9
> gears allowing the motor to run in its most efficient range at all
> speeds thus reducing the draw on the battery significantly, allowing
> Opti batteries to last and allowing Opti to provide a solid 3 yr
> warranty. A hub motor is running at 1 rpm when starting up and must
> get up to 20 mph to reach the sweet spot of efficiency. Even an
> Optibike battery pack will die if used with a hub motor. I'm rooting
> for the new battery technology that will eliminate this problem but I
> don't think it's here yet.
>
> So what does Stealth say to this? Me thinks that perhaps this is why
> Stealth (or any hub motor) did not show at Pike's Peak. They all talk
> about their impressive speed, power and acceleration but a long run
> uphill might be too much for them. I'll try to post this question on

> > > > with a heart rate monitor, and not a CA. And why I'm excited to see
> > > > the new garmin power-measuring pedals. I'm not claiming one is better
> > > > than the other, but I still go back to the "bike" part of the term
> > > > electric bike.
> > > >  Speaking of which, I'm sitting at the prep are for the Great Tahoe
> > > > Flume Race.  About to get some great trails under my tires. Mountain
> > > > bike tires. All legs and lungs today.
> > > >  John
>

> > > > > I do think it could be a good time  for Opti to produce that efficient
> > > > > no fuss 'aero' model for the commuter/road only user. I could see this
> > > > > as being: reduced weight with no suspension, 700c wheels, discs front
> > > > > and rear, belt drive, Rohloff hub (or other lighter weight integral
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[lowco2]

"less than most annual health club
memberships--and a hell of a lot more fun."

I agree completely. Well put. You can't put a number on the fun of
riding these bikes, and if years to reading LH's posts tell me
anything, it's that he has fun riding. Keep it up.
--John

> ...
>
> read more »

[Bike_On]

I was talking to Craig about the 1100R. It is a NEW motor
design...just to clarify from previous discussions.

Thus, an electronics only upgrade will not work. i think Jim K. may
have stated that already.

D

On Sep 11, 6:05 am, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Having both Opti & Stealth bikes (still got an Opti in pieces ready for
> overvolting), I could possibly shed some light without speaking for either
> Opti or Stealth. In my mind, they are the 2 best bikes available anywhere.
> Which one to choose? Depends on how fast you want to go, your required
> range, maximum gradient you want to climb and how much you want to spend.
>
> The Stealth Fighter is very quiet, just a barely audible whine, weighs 75
> lb., will hit 43 mph and accelerate very quickly to top speed with 2 gears,
> there aren't any gear changes. It'll go for at least 25 miles up steep,
> rolling hills though much further on flats with moderate to maximum effort.
> Price is $7,900. I've been putting my Bomber through constant battery
> torture for the last year, not a hiccup. I only just got the Fighter, no
> issues at all for me or any of the many dozens of owners of much older
> Fighters.
>
> The Opti 1100R, not having ridden it but I assume it has the same audible
> motor noise as the 850, weighs 60 lb, will apparently do 35-37 mph,
> accelerates slower through the gears but this allows it to climb gradients
> that are difficult to walk up and gives it a superior range. Price will be
> at least $13,200. In 6 years of Opti ownership, I never had a single fault.
>
> Bottom line: both bikes are winners. Pick one or both :)
>
>
>

> > > > > > suspect in future we may come to recognise this latter group of
> > people
> > > > > > as the electric version of a petrol head. PLEASE NOTE: That’s an
> > > > > > observation not a
>

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[Bike_On]

[Nimbuzz]

Not sure but I don't think it is a "new motor design" It may have a
different gauge wire in it's windings.

> ...
>
> read more »

[Bike_On]

Al,

Technically, you may be correct. I was asking Craig if new
electronics could be used on an existing frame+motor. Why buy a new
bike if all you need is a battery and electronics? He said the new
controller has to have a NEW motor for the 1100R. Something is
different about it, not sure what. The wire? The magnets? Turns
ratio?

I have run my 800-850 W motor at 43 volts. Wowza! I was seeing
1200-1400 w in boost mode (30-40A) and I was able to sustain the boost
for 10 seconds or so with induced torque to the rear wheel (pull up on
the bars) The system is not optimized, but doubling my power, even for
a short time, is mouth watering. The 1100R constant power will shake
the lag out of the 850 systems.

Are you going for an 1100R?

D

> ...
>
> read more »

[Nimbuzz]

D, I am going for an 1100R

How did you do the 43 volt thing? Details please.

Danke,
A

> ...
>
> read more »

[Bike_On]

I did an aux battery input, 13S, A123 prismatics. It is detailed in
another thread. It is a bust right not bcause I can"t control the
charge levels reliably. However, the current and impedance were
excellent. I was running 42.5V on a fresh charge and 41.5V minimum
under load. Unfortunately, the algorithm in the controller pulls back
the current under load to about 650W steady state. Boost mode sees
1200-1400W. Eco mode ran very well with 520W, 12A all the time and
boost on top of that.

> ...
>
> read more »

[Bike_On]

...Al, you can appreciate good lithium packs. this pack has/has a lot
of potential usage and a good Opti application with 20 ahrs, 42V, 840
whr, 30C cells. Alas, I poofed one prismatic cell with an OV. Got it
replaced and damaged another( maybe 2), after I though I had a process
to not monitor if 24/7. The weak cell only gives 5.5 ahr right now.
I may pull it and run on 12S. Or I may get a 13 bms, 100A, and
replace the cells. Either way, my prime ride days are LOST, and busy,
cold fall ahead. Basically, 8 months to fix it and until I can really
use it.

Larry was right, the FalconEv guy did not know what he was doing or
how to run these cells without a bms. I now have expensive, damaged
cells. It was a nice pack, but heavier than I hoped (16lbs vs 13 lbs)

> ...
>
> read more »

[Nimbuzz]

Amazing that we're still begging for acceptable batteries after all
these years!! This still puts Opti way out front in my book after
hearing and experiencing so many stories like this for the past 6
years and it still continues. It is such a relief to get on the Opti
and ride with a 3 yr American warranty--ride off and leave all the
failed battery experiments behind.

1-- << It is detailed in another thread. >> Would you consider
providing a link?

2-- Looks like Larry's packs are interesting however I've tried to
contact Hobby King through their site, via email, live chat and phone
over a dozen times over 4 months--Nada but once I got live chat and
the person said he was not qualified to answer and signed off = hung
up on me. Larry has had good luck so far but with non existent support
of any kind it's risky. Larry got some packs that seem good so far but
ordering more now does not mean that a later batch will be at all the
same. I might try even though I've sworn not to be a guinea pig
again.

What to do for a good pack?!!?

> ...
>
> read more »

[Bike_On]

http://groups.google.com/group/optibike-owners-group/browse_thread/thread/369eaf0a66d0d8ca#

[Bike_On]

Al,

Are u trading in your 850? Geting a CA?

Dan

On Sep 18, 1:28 am, Nimbuzz <mary...@aol.com> wrote: