ibike Power Meter & the Opti

[remf]

I like data…in the face of constant information bombardment, I go out & try to find more. Speed, distance, time, weight, temperature, and power are metrics that go round in my head constantly, especially on an electric bike. With this in mind, and a longing for something more interesting than 3 LEDs and a Garmin Edge, I just got delivery of the ibike iSport Cycling Computer & Power Meter. Obviously made for unpowered bikes but works very nicely on the Opti or any e-bike.

It takes about an hour or so to install & set up. You need to input lots of info about total weight, rider details, tire size & circumference, etc. as well as doing a 2 calibrations - a 2 mile out and back ride & a Coast down calibration. Once it's done, you don't have to worry about any further setup. Wind offset calculations are performed automatically. Then it's off to look at the numbers.

I figured the best way to test its accuracy was to get a baseline wattage reading at maximum throttle without pedalling with a fresh battery in Fast / Low Boost mode. Maximum displayed was about 800W…not bad for a 850 watt bike !!!

Next step was to see how much I could add to that going hard on the pedals no throttle….700W…maximum sustained.

Then full throttle, *MAX* pedal…1,500W. OK.

The next question was what was the output in Eco / Slow, no pedalling? Between 250 & 400W. It started out at 400W but after a 25 mile ride, it was showing around 250W. Another really cool thing is the response time...really PUMP and within a second you see your watts jump up to over 1,000. Also how it shows 0 when your coasting downhill. Then accelerate downhill & it jumps.

Particularly interesting is how it works. It uses Newton's Third Law - resistive forces equal applied forces - and so measures variables like bike speed, wind speed, air temperature, gradient & elevation and uses constants such as weights, tire size, rolling resistance & aerodynamic coefficients to estimate power output. Very accurately, if slightly underestimated.

It also has a on-screen workouts & a fitness test. Haven't tried them yet, wonder how it copes with Superbike? Definitely worth checking out if you like lots of detail, especially an objective measurement like Watts, both you & the bike or either one separately.

http://www.ibikesports.com/

[Axe Pollster]

Great review 

I concur on data. One can never have enough. Then again I'm biased. 

Sent from my iPhone

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<ibike-powermeter.jpg>

[Bike_On]

Remf,

So this is anaccurate power estimator, using detailed inputs? I
wonder about clothing and wind. Th etop model has wind meters.
Otherwise, I suppose one has to input, adjust on the fly?

This is a much simpler, sophisticated device than the expensive power
meters with strain gauges. But it is an estimator based on models and
maybe an algorithm.

It is impressive. Please do post results.

Comment on Power. 700 W human, wow. WHat is you+bike average power
vs the bike's average over a 10 mile loop? I have tried to do some
power/torque calculation in Excel. WHen one considers the crank
length and sevral hundred pounds pushing down, the peak power does
shoot up there. The difficulty is sustaining it. It does shed light
how a fit 180 lb guy on a 18lb bike can accelerate and keep up/outpace
an Opti for a short distance.

Dan

On Dec 15, 3:17 am, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like data…in the face of constant information bombardment, I go out & try
> to find more. Speed, distance, time, weight, temperature, and power are
> metrics that go round in my head constantly, especially on an electric bike.
> With this in mind, and a longing for something more interesting than 3 LEDs

> and a Garmin Edge, I just got delivery of the *ibike iSport* Cycling

>  ibike-powermeter.jpg
> 62KViewDownload

[Bike_On]

remf,

A quick calc, with a 7 inch crank, you are putting 91 lbs of force on
the pedals (total for both push/pull) in order to get 700 W, spinning
around 92 rpm.

As powerful as these motors can be, it is enlightening to know how
much our bodies can produce, and how close they are to the motor's
power.

DR

> > 62KViewDownload- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[remf]

Dan, clothing makes a difference. You do a Coast Down calibration to estimate your coefficient of drag - Cd - with the clothing you usually wear. If you substantially alter your clothes, say for a change of season, you just do the Coast Down again. This involves accelerating to 20mph on flat to slightly uphill & then coasting to a stop.

I could sustain 700W for bursts, averages much lower like 250W, probably much less over 10 miles. The difference is the Opti can keep the big watts up for long periods...I'm the brains, she's the brawn :p

I'll definitely post more detail soon.

2009/12/16 Bike_On <thero...@verizon.net>

[remf]

Wind is accounted for with a pitot like vent on the front of the unit.
Put your hand in front of it while riding & it assumes you've got a
tailwind & your watts drop accordingly. It auto-calibrates for wind at
startup and you can display things like gradient, air temp & wind
speed along with a lot more.

On Dec 16, 8:14 am, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dan, clothing makes a difference. You do a Coast Down calibration to
> estimate your coefficient of drag - Cd - with the clothing you usually wear.
> If you substantially alter your clothes, say for a change of season, you
> just do the Coast Down again. This involves accelerating to 20mph on flat to
> slightly uphill & then coasting to a stop.
>
> I could sustain 700W for bursts, averages much lower like 250W, probably
> much less over 10 miles. The difference is the Opti can keep the big watts
> up for long periods...I'm the brains, she's the brawn :p
>
> I'll definitely post more detail soon.
>

> 2009/12/16 Bike_On <therowe...@verizon.net>

> > optibike-owners-...@googlegroups.com<optibike-owners-group%2B unsub...@googlegroups.com>

[deerfencer]

remf,

Cool shite! How does it work, i.e. what is the physical hookup?

LH

On Dec 15, 3:17 am, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I like data…in the face of constant information bombardment, I go out & try
> to find more. Speed, distance, time, weight, temperature, and power are
> metrics that go round in my head constantly, especially on an electric bike.
> With this in mind, and a longing for something more interesting than 3 LEDs

> and a Garmin Edge, I just got delivery of the *ibike iSport* Cycling

> ibike-powermeter.jpg
> 62KViewDownload

[remf]

Larry, I have the entry level iSport that has a magnet sensor wired to
the front wheel. The vent in the front of the unit which is most
likely a combined pitot/static port, measures air speed, temperature,
elevation and elevation trends.

A wireless mount is available as an option.

There's also the iPro from which you can upload data to a PC or Mac &
examine it in detail.

Or there's the iAero for Tour de France contenders which is fully ANT+
compatible, measures your CdA to wind tunnel-like accuracy and ride
position analysis.

Dan, I just came back from a 20 mile loop in Eco/Low Boost. 424W
Average, 1,267W Max.

In Fast/High Boost, the numbers seem to be around: 650W Average,
1,500W Max, but I haven't done a loop in Fast/High Boost yet.

[remf]

Actually the 1,267W Max is for Fast/Low Boost. Forgot I tried Fast/Low
Boost out for a minute or 2. I'll have to check the maximum on Eco/Low
again.

[Jim_Kirk]

Remf,

Can I suggest that we standardize our nomenclature so we all speak the
same language here? See if you agree with my logic.

We now know from the Opti blog how to properly enter the two boost
modes present in our bikes. Opti calls these Fast boost and Slow
boost and you can toggle between them. Also, once you enter one of
these two boost modes it will persist until you toggle to the other
mode [doesn't matter if the bike is turned off and back on the mode
persists].
http://bit.ly/85MJ6P

Now you can have the Opti speed switch in either the FAST position or
the ECO position. So their are 4 states for the Opti [really, I stay
up all night to think these things up].
1. FAST switch/FAST boost
2. ECO switch/FAST boost
3. FAST switch/SLOW boost
4. ECO switch/SLOW boost

This is all we have at the present time. Do you agree with these
States and do you think we should all talk to each other using this
nomenclature to avoid confusion?

Jim

[Bike_On]

Jim,

You think about them all night, I think about them all day.

When I got the new "boost" software in 08, the documentation was
OPPOSITE of what Craig posted. ie. three leds has HIGH BOOST, two
leds is LOW BOOST. My best riding seems to be FAST/ two LED mode,
whichever that really is.

I agree, lets standarize.
shall it be:
FH
FL
EH
EL

DR

On Dec 16, 8:33 am, Jim_Kirk <j...@jakirk.com> wrote:
> Remf,
>
> Can I suggest that we standardize our nomenclature so we all speak the
> same language here?  See if you agree with my logic.
>
> We now know from the Opti blog how to properly enter the two boost
> modes present in our bikes.  Opti calls these Fast boost and Slow
> boost and you can toggle between them.  Also, once you enter one of
> these two boost modes it will persist until you toggle to the other
> mode [doesn't matter if the bike is turned off and back on the mode

> persists].http://bit.ly/85MJ6P

[Jim_Kirk]

Might I suggest we stick with Fast boost and Slow boost as that is the
official position of what this is called by Opti.:
http://bit.ly/85MJ6P

So, I might suggest the following 4 states:

FF [Fast switch, Fast boost]
FS [Fast switch, Slow boost]
EF [Eco switch, Fast boost]
ES [Eco switch, Slow boost]

Comments?

[remf]

Standardising the terms would be helpful and abbreviations would save time spelling it out though I think it may be confusing to those who don't know what 'FF mode' is. I think that while Fast/Fast mode may give you a clue, Fast/High mode gives more of a clue. Fast/High Boost mode gives you the fullest explanation but is a mouthful, I agree.

2009/12/17 Jim_Kirk <j...@jakirk.com>

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[Jim_Kirk]

I'd say forget the abbreviations and just state it in the language
Opti uses.

Fast switch/Fast boost, Fast switch/Slow boost, ECO switch/Fast boost,
ECO switch/Slow boost

Someone wants to know what Fast boost is and how to get into that mode
we just send em to the Opti blog. They want to know what Fast switch
or Eco switch is-simple-it's the position of a toggle switch on the
headlight.

Now, Remf, I mostly ride in Fast switch mode so I'm curious if you
have done a comparison of how the bike "feels" [i.e. peppier, faster]
if you are these two states:

Fast switch/Fast boost?
Fast switch/Slow boost?

What about your perception of battery life in each of these two
states? And, just wondering, what mode do you ride in most of the
time?

> > optibike-owners-...@googlegroups.com<optibike-owners-group%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[cdwhite4]

Dan, can you quantify "best riding". Meaning best battery life? Or
fastest times?

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[remf]

Hi Jim,

I've just done some fairly objective tests of the boost mode using the ibike watt meter.

This afternoon was 78ºF & the winds were NNE at 15 knots gusting to 24 knots. The tests were done over the same quarter mile NE 4% uphill.

Pedal only output: 880W

Eco/Low motor only: 391W

Eco/Low pedal & motor: 1,175W

Eco/High motor only: 448W

Eco/High pedal & motor: 1,271W

Fast/Low motor only: 660W

Fast/Low pedal & motor: 1,326W

Fast/High motor only: 770W

Fast/High pedal & motor: 1,650W

I bodgied up (Macgyver'd) a stem mount for Optilink to stop it from becoming a lethal projectile. Amazing what a doorstop & a huge cable-tie can do. Stronger than the original...anyway Optilink didn't tell me much other than the maximum drain current which was around 50A in Eco & 60A in Fast. Optilink shows 39V & 72.6% battery remaining yet there's only one flashing Green LED, solid red & amber.

The remaining battery percentage dropped rapidly after I switched to Fast/High. I ride in Eco/Low most of the time. I get more exercise, better range & hopefully a little more life out of the battery.

2009/12/17 Jim_Kirk <j...@jakirk.com>

[Bike_On]

Remf,

Please confirm Craig's description:
Is the FAST BOOST AFTER a triple LED blik or double LED blink?

David, best ride for me is FAST mode - I like consistent highe rpower
output/ and double LED Boost - this mode seems to give a longer boost
and keeps my speed up.

I have tried some riding in ECO mode, but only a handlful of times.
The ECO/Fast mode (triple led) had a weird oscillation where it would
begin a boost/stop/begin/stop...under certain loads.

Dan

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> ...
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[Bike_On]

Remf-

Thanks a bunch for the data!

This data gives an empirical evidence for the amount of assist from a
bike, and a high pwer bike at that.

Imagine a trained cyclist putting out 1400 W on a 18lb bike, that
would easily keep up with a 58lb opti in the short run. No wonder the
purist throw the snobby barbs.

DR

On Dec 17, 3:47 am, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > optibike-owners-...@googlegroups.com<optibike-owners-group%2B­unsub...@googlegroups.com>
>
> ...
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[cdwhite4]

Sorry, I meant do you like FF or FS? I got my bike back last night,
rode in this morning, temps around 32 degrees F.
Everything was smooth and beautiful, so fun to be back on the saddle.

I played a little bit last night and to be honest, I couldn't tell the
difference between 3 blinks or 2, so I can't tell which is which...

So you think FS gives you a longer boost?

-David

> ...
>
> read more »

[Bike_On]

I meant to say I like FS more than FF. Slower boost in in fast mode.
In cold weather, may not tell the difference.

[Axe Pollster]

I copy-cat'd and got the ibike last week. I'm experiencing odd
variability in the power readings. I suspect I may not have been as
patient or methodical in my setup as remf....

Sent from my iPhone

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[Bike_On]

Remf,

If you could observe the battery power on the Optilink, and also not
the power meter, then you can get some efficiency numbers. If you get
a chance.

Great stuff.

Dan

On Dec 17, 3:47 am, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > optibike-owners-...@googlegroups.com<optibike-owners-group%2B­unsub...@googlegroups.com>
>
> ...
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> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[remf]

Dan, sorry I didn't use the correct boost terms! According to Craig, and the ibike seems to confirm: F or Fast Boost is 2 LED's S or Slow Boost is 3 LED's I haven't felt any boost oscillation. I do think it's significant that the default setting on my bike was Slow Boost and the official word on boost has only been forthcoming in the last few days which makes me think that Opti would prefer us using Slow Boost maybe due to the possible increased longevity of components? It appears the boost setting changes both the sensitivity of the boost activation as well as the boost level & duration: F giving you extended boost duration, S giving you limited boost duration. According to Craig in the blog:

There are two different Boost Modes on Optibikes, FAST and SLOW. These are changed by toggling the MODE switch on the headlight. The FAST and SLOW Boost Modes affect the sensitivity of the Boost Mode. Some riders find the normal, Fast Boost, is too active with their riding style, so they use the less sensitive, Slow Boost Mode.

Boost Mode is the amount of acceleration the Optibike has when shifting gears or accelerating from a stop. Some riders find their bikes entering Boost Mode too often. The Slow Boost Mode is less sensitive, making it harder to enter, and will not offer as much acceleration during shifting.

 

 

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[Russell_LA]

I love data also. It is interesting. I enjoy reading the post of
this topic on this forum.
Here is what I love about my Optibike.
I love the sound of the wind rushing by my ears when I am at my best
effort on flat terrain and notice I am going 40 Mph +
I love seeing car drivers (all men sofar) matching my speed and I see
them looking down at their speedometer to check me out.
I love how this one fellow who was doing this roll down his window and
holler at me do you know you are doing 42. I just smiled. He hollered
back your bike is Bitching.....
I love the way the Optibike handles at speed, it just inspires
confidence.
I love the way after a hard ride I realize how exhilarated I feel
knowing how far and how fast I traveled with my Optibike.
How is that for Data?
Merry Christmas to all.

Russell_LA

[remf]

I'll try to do some efficiency calculations but to get Ahrs used, I'll have to use the percentage remaining figure as a proportion of 20 Ahrs. Not sure it'll be very accurate & there's no way to log on Optilink so I'll have to take pencil & paper.

2009/12/18 Bike_On <thero...@verizon.net>

[remf]

Axe, have you done the Coast Down calibration? Says it's optional in the manual but it's essential to get accurate readings above 19mph and also for accurate frictional & drag coefficients.

2009/12/18 Axe Pollster <axe.po...@gmail.com>

[remf]

Nice! I notice all these things too.

Flat terrain 40+ you are Superman.

> ...
>
> read more »

[Primary Pollster]

i think that is the one i missed, yes. basically, keep getting "spikes" in my wattage despite fairly constant effort and wind/speed etc.

[remf]

The Tilt calibration is very important. It must also have an accelerometer inside.

Wind Offset calibration which zeros the gauge is performed at each start-up and must be done at ambient temperature but somewhere with zero wind.

As mentioned the Coast-Down calibration sets the frictional coefficient that changes with riding surface or if you change tires or pressures, as well as the aerodynamic drag coefficient that changes with clothing & riding position. Have you set the riding position to Hoods?

It seems to underestimate power somewhat reading ~780 watts though possibly is quite accurate. At say 90% efficiency, an 850W motor may put around 780W to the road.

2009/12/18 Primary Pollster <axe.po...@gmail.com>

[remf]

Not sure but I guess wattage is usually measured at the crank?

2009/12/18 remf <opti...@gmail.com>

[remf]

I just completed a 20 mile ride - 10 miles out & back.

According to Optilink:

The 10 mile outbound leg in Eco/Slow consumed 20% of 20 Ah or 2.5
miles/Ah - 420W & 20mph average

The 10 mile return leg in Fast/Fast consumed 40% of 20 Ah or 1.25
miles/Ah - 600W & 25mph average

> ...
>
> read more »

[remf]

Outbound leg: -1% Average gradient, -16% Max gradient, 21 kts
headwind,
35 kts gusts

Inbound leg: 1% Average gradient, 16 % Max gradient, 20 kts tailwind,
34 kts gusts.

> ...
>
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[Jim_Kirk]

Remf,
I am so happy because now I understand completely your recent
posts :) :) :).
Here's you next challenge:
I wonder if you could point your video camera at the Optilink and
ibike power meter [suggestion: move from head to bike mount so you can
live to see another day] and record the data as you ride? If this
works you could use the data at your leisure.
Jim

On Dec 17, 4:27 pm, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll try to do some efficiency calculations but to get Ahrs used, I'll have
> to use the percentage remaining figure as a proportion of 20 Ahrs. Not sure
> it'll be very accurate & there's no way to log on Optilink so I'll have to
> take pencil & paper.
>

> 2009/12/18 Bike_On <therowe...@verizon.net>

> ...
>
> read more »

[Jim_Kirk]

Remf,
Just a quick diversion on this thread. I see you use knots as
your wind speed two posts up-I'm a former sailor [now a powerboater]
but with the kinds of wind speeds you see [>20 kts] it makes me wonder
if anyone uses "sail" bikes [3 wheel probably] or variations of this
in your area for land based vehicles? How about windmills producing
electric power-got any of those around?
Jim

> ...
>
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[lowco2]

Hi Gents,
On most non-ebikes there are two key approaches (well, three
depending on how you look at it). One approach is to measure wattage
at the hub (I have this type), the other is at the crank. Saris/
PowerTap is one large maker of hub-based power meters and SRM is a
major crank-replacement power meter company. There is a company that
has developed a pedal-replacement power meter that is ANT+ compatible.
Looks very cool and would work with the Optibike to give true rider-
only power, but it's pricy (not released yet, but supposed to be US
$1,000).
Cheers,
--John

On Dec 17, 3:39 pm, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not sure but I guess wattage is usually measured at the crank?
>

> 2009/12/18 remf <optibi...@gmail.com>

>
>
>
> > The Tilt calibration is very important. It must also have an accelerometer
> > inside.
>
> > Wind Offset calibration which zeros the gauge is performed at each start-up
> > and must be done at ambient temperature but somewhere with zero wind.
>
> > As mentioned the Coast-Down calibration sets the frictional coefficient
> > that changes with riding surface or if you change tires or pressures, as
> > well as the aerodynamic drag coefficient that changes with clothing & riding
> > position. Have you set the riding position to Hoods?
>
> > It seems to underestimate power somewhat reading ~780 watts though possibly
> > is quite accurate. At say 90% efficiency, an 850W motor may put around 780W
> > to the road.
>

> > 2009/12/18 Primary Pollster <axe.polls...@gmail.com>

>
> > i think that is the one i missed, yes. basically, keep getting "spikes" in
> >> my wattage despite fairly constant effort and wind/speed etc.
>

> >> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 8:44 AM, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Axe, have you done the Coast Down calibration? Says it's optional in the
> >>> manual but it's essential to get accurate readings above 19mph and also for
> >>> accurate frictional & drag coefficients.
>

> >>> 2009/12/18 Axe Pollster <axe.polls...@gmail.com>

>
> >>>>  I copy-cat'd and got the ibike last week. I'm experiencing odd
> >>>> variability in the power readings. I suspect I may not have been as
> >>>> patient or methodical in my setup as remf....
>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>

[Bike_On]

Seems like human power can be computer indirectly withinthe Optilink ,
if it was ANT+ compatible. Use an Ibike, SRM or Cinquo device to
transmit power.

Optilink can take Battery power * Efficiency - power meter to get
human

[remf]

Jim I've already tried to do this but mounting the camera from the
handlebar so that ibike & Optilink are visible is difficult.

I have a Gorillapod but the legs aren't long enough to get the shot.
I'll have give this some thought.

> ...
>
> read more »

[remf]

Jim, I'm an aviator which explains the knots terminology. I recognise the force of wind immediately when expressed in knots. I own a motorglider and use thermals, mechanical lift & strong winds to get around with the engine switched off. Feather the prop & you have a glide ratio of 24:1 meaning you can glide for 24 miles while losing 5,280 ft in altitude without the benefit of thermal activity to lift you up & take you further. With the motor on at high altitude, I've used big tailwinds to propel the aircraft to over 235mph over the ground for long periods while using only 3 gallons of fuel an hour. Using the force of the wind makes so much sense. I haven't seen any sail bikes here though I have seen some in Sydney. And I think I've seen one solitary turbine here. We are so backward in developing & implementing renewables here. It's shameful.

2009/12/19 Jim_Kirk <j...@jakirk.com>

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[remf]

Great info, thanks John. $1,000 !!! I may stick with the ibike to get totals.

2009/12/19 lowco2 <jcsag...@mac.com>

[remf]

Yes Dan, another request for Charles...ANT+ would be nice!

2009/12/19 Bike_On <thero...@verizon.net>

[Charles Duffy]

Unless anyone makes ANT+ -> Bluetooth hardware, not much I can do
about that.

I have a EE friend who dabbles in embedded hardware and might be
interested in building such a thing if there were enough customers,
but he's pretty busy.

On Dec 18, 3:17 pm, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes Dan, another request for Charles...ANT+ would be nice!
>

> 2009/12/19 Bike_On <therowe...@verizon.net>

> ...
>
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[Charles Duffy]

Also, while ANT chips are pretty cheap, there's a network key needed
to communicate with "sport and wellness products". My initial
impression is that getting that involves paying one's way into the ANT
+ alliance, paying for 3rd-party interoperability testing, and
otherwise considerably more outlay and overhead than is reasonable for
a garage product.

> ...
>
> read more »

[remf]

I suspected as much, just thought I'd throw in a few more ambit requests :)

I'm really looking forward to this. Is the idea to include it with all bikes for free or sell it as an option and include an Android device? Am I asking too many questions?

2009/12/19 Charles Duffy <cha...@dyfis.net>

> ...
>
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[Jim M.]

remf,

I'm a fellow soaring pilot. Unfortunately my soaring days are over
for a bit having sold my ASW20B a few years ago. Its a wonderful
world up there.

I'm very interested in the iBike so please keep posting on your
findings. Also I'm curious about your thoughts on the Pro vs. Sport.

Jim

> ...
>
> read more »

[Charles Duffy]

The business side of things is in Opti's court. From my perspective,
there's much less room for (real or perceived) conflict with my day
job if this is strictly an unpaid hobby project.

OTOH, just as I've asked for hardware donations for other free
projects I've done in the past, I could see myself accepting extended
loan of an iBike from someone who wanted me to build after-the-fact
analysis tools to combine the output from my Android-based OptiLink
datalogger with those from the logging-capable iBike versions
(everything but the iSport, I think).

BTW, I finally got my dev hardware upgraded to a "real" Android 2.0.1
build -- with serial-over-Bluetooth plumbed through to the app layer
using the same API as in the Motorola Droid and upcoming 2.x phones --
so I'm pretty much set to resume work as soon as my bike gets back.

On Dec 18, 3:53 pm, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I suspected as much, just thought I'd throw in a few more ambit requests :)
>
> I'm really looking forward to this. Is the idea to include it with all bikes
> for free or sell it as an option and include an Android device? Am I asking
> too many questions?
>

> 2009/12/19 Charles Duffy <char...@dyfis.net>

> ...
>
> read more »

[remf]

Jim, nice plane...Schleicher's the oldest sailplane maker in the world I think, quite a pedigree. It's a different world up there with only the sound of the wind...beautiful.

The Pro is a lot pricier...though has true logging capability.

2009/12/19 Jim M. <jmeik...@gmail.com>

> ...
>
> read more »

[remf]

Great idea. No point offering you mine. It's an iSport.

2009/12/19 Charles Duffy <cha...@dyfis.net>

> ...
>
> read more »

[remf]

Charles this would be an excellent capability. Opti could truly
demonstrate to one & all that this is one of the most efficient
transportation devices on the planet. As well as all the other geeky
selling advantages.

> ...
>
> read more »

[remf]

Here's a short video I shot. Unfortunately you can't see Optilink due to the light though it showed a 60A spike right at the beginning in 6th gear. It then settled to show between 20A & 30A. You can see the ibike though it's wobbly. I'll shoot another video with a hood over Optilink so you can see it and try to stabilise it a bit more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6gudqAdpjE

2009/12/19 Jim_Kirk <j...@jakirk.com>

--

[Jim_Kirk]

Remf,
Well I see the limitations of using the video camera to capture
real time screens on a bouncy road after looking at the video. No
doubt about it, the eyes make the best filter to eliminate road motion
so it appears your best data will come from what you observe.

I do, however, see you have successfully retained your IPAQ so it
will stay with the bike no matter what.

You getting close to that first Rohloff oil change yet?

> ...
>
> read more »
>
>  1516W 33.8mph.jpeg
> 820KViewDownload

[remf]

Jim that was after using image stabilisation software...so yes mounting a static camera on a bike is a problem. There are gyroscopic stabiliser mounts available but you need a large battery to power it & more enthusiasm than I've got.

The IPAQ mount is a plastic door wedge and the largest cable-tie I could find. I'm not so sure it'll stay there no matter what! The IPAQ is tough though, it's survived a massive impact.

I probably don't need to replace the oil yet...I've done about 3K miles on it & is silky smooth now...though it may be worthwhile to get all those metal filings out?

2009/12/19 Jim_Kirk <j...@jakirk.com>

--

[Nimbuzz]

yep "metal filings out" is the name of the game in a gearbox. What
interval does Rollh recommend?

> > optibike-owners-...@googlegroups.com<optibike-owners-group%2B unsub...@googlegroups.com>

[remf]

Rohloff recommends annually or at least every 5,000 km / 3,000 miles.
Probably worthwhile then, thanks for the reminder, I'll update the
Rohloff Wave.

> ...
>
> read more »

[James]

Yes! I agree.

On Dec 16, 8:33 am, Jim_Kirk <j...@jakirk.com> wrote:
> Now you can have the Opti speed switch in either the FAST position or
> the ECO position.  So their are 4 states for the Opti [really, I stay
> up all night to think these things up].
> 1. FAST switch/FAST boost
> 2. ECO switch/FAST boost
> 3.  FAST switch/SLOW boost
> 4.  ECO switch/SLOW boost

I am glad you wrote it so clearly.
Maybe they should pay to to ghost write the next manual.

[James]

On Dec 16, 7:26 pm, Jim_Kirk <j...@jakirk.com> wrote:
> I'd say forget the abbreviations and just state it in the language
> Opti uses.
>
> Fast switch/Fast boost, Fast switch/Slow boost, ECO switch/Fast boost,
> ECO switch/Slow boost

That is the easiest to understand.

Doesn't anybody else change to ECO switch/Slow boost
when their battery is near empty to limp home with some power?

It seems to delay the dreaded power "shut down"

[James]

And does anybody else "bounce" the front tire
to force the boost mode to kick in?

I don't think anybody has mentioned it yet.

If you hit a steep hill boost helps a LOT for 5 seconds.
If you need more... bounce the front tire an inch or two off the
ground
and boost will kick in again, and again, and again.
So you can get almost constant boost until thermal shut down.
It really helps for the brutal hills.

This also helps prevent the "semi-random" boost for throwing me
into trees and off ledges during the more technical riding. Grrrr,
Grumble.

[Bike_On]

James,

> Doesn't anybody else change to ECO switch/Slow boost
> when their battery is near empty to limp home with some power?
> It seems to delay the dreaded power "shut down"

My question to you is, "How do you know the battery is near empty?"
I
ask to know your criteria. Is it when the LEDs sequence to a Solid
RED LED? Or when the bike goes into SAFE mode when it is warm/cold?

In warm temps, my battery has behaved very predictably, when
observing
the LED sequencing. In fast/fast boost mode, each stage will last
about 10-14 minutes. So I see a solid RED around 55 minute. I
expected this to last another 12 minutes, bu tit lasted 35 until
SAFE! No complaints here, but there seems to be more margin when
temps are warm.

In cold temps, as posted before and documented in the Opti Blog by
Craig, the SAFE mode can be activated prematurely due to voltage
sags,
and a power cycle is needed. I do not consider that event to be a
sign of an "empty " battery. If my battery is stored in the warm, as
suggested by Opti, and then ride in modestly cool temps (high 30-low
40) I can get to 55 minutes and avoid consistent drops into SAFE, but
it requires some extra effort on the hills to not load it down after
50 minutes. However, I can't ride 35 minutes with a solid RED in the
cold without a drop-to-safe. So the sooid red stage has a more
typical stage time of 10-14 minutes. My mixed terrain range in the
cold is 19-20 miles before I see SAFE mode.

you said:
dreaded power "shut down"

I use to experience this last season, before the new Nov.08 software.
(See Craig's blog again) I was told the hard shutdown was the
battery
BMS superceding the internal control monitoring and protecting the
battery. No recycle of power to reset and continue riding. Must go
legs until battery is charged. Is that what you mean? I suspect,
with the new software, one can run in SAFE mode long enough until it
triggers that shutdown as well.

Yes, I go to ECO mode now if battery is repetitively going into SAFE
mode. Again, only need to do that when temps are below 45F or so.

The bigger question to your comment is:
"When do you have to start limping home?"

A lot of that is YMMV factors, but in Maryland riding it will be
55min-1hr/20 miles in the cold, and est. 1.5hr/35 miles when warm
before I begin limping as a reduced power level..

Dan

[James]

> voltage sags,

Thank you Dan, that is exactly the phrase I was searching for.
When the battery is down to one solid red light I switch to ECO/ slow
boost.
in the hope of avoiding a shut down due to voltage sag.
It does seem to help.

> No recycle of power to reset and continue riding.  Must go
> legs until battery is charged.  Is that what you mean?

YES!

I would be pleased if there was an simple and direct way (alarm?) to
know when the battery has 50% remaining.
Perhaps the Ibike power meter can help. Does it show cumulative power
output?

[remf]

James, switching to Eco/Slow will definitely delay a low voltage
shutdown. It's also helpful in very high ambient temperatures to delay
thermal shutdowns.

The ibike doesn't display accumulated power only maximum or average
instantaneous combined bike/rider output. Best option is Optilink
which gives you percentage remaining. A new Android Optilink is on the
way which should be a big improvement.

[James]

On Dec 27, 7:43 pm, remf wrote:
> James, switching to Eco/Slow will definitely delay a low voltage
> shutdown. It's also helpful in very high ambient temperatures to delay
> thermal shutdowns.

I've pushed my 800LI pretty hard in 70 degree weather (25C)
by triggering almost continuous boost for LONG steep dirt road climbs.
I have never had thermal shutdown.

The opitibike is tough!

> The ibike doesn't display accumulated power

Darn, Darn, Darn!! I was about to buy one.
Thanks Remf, you saved me from a big disapointment.

I called Optibike to buy the Bluetooth & software for Optilink (I
already have a PDA)
but they stop selling it in November! They must be confident that a
better solution will
be available soon. Good.

[rem f]

Yeah I've only ever experienced one thermal shutdown riding up a
mountain in 105F - 40C+. Today I wanted to ride up & down one of the
steepest roads in the country but rain & cold temperatures have made
that very unattractive.

It is a sturdy, long range bike...no question.

The ibike does display some useful info but not particularly detailed
unless you get the Pro & look at more detailed data after your ride on
a computer.

> --
> You received this email because you have an eye for quality,
> performance, and style that only comes with an Optibike.
>
> To post to this group, send email to
> optibike-o...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> optibike-owners-...@googlegroups.com

[remf]

The rain stopped so I went on my ride into the clouds. 5 miles out & 5
miles return - 1,435 ft climb, 30% maximum grade - the steepest I've
ridden - up & back down in around 30 minutes.

1,286W maximum output.

On Dec 28, 1:17 pm, rem f <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah I've only ever experienced one thermal shutdown riding up a
> mountain in 105F - 40C+. Today I wanted to ride up & down one of the
> steepest roads in the country but rain & cold temperatures have made
> that very unattractive.
>
> It is a sturdy, long range bike...no question.
>
> The ibike does display some useful info but not particularly detailed
> unless you get the Pro & look at more detailed data after your ride on
> a computer.
>

[remf]

I tried some maximum power bursts clipped in for the first time with
the power meter...and the results were very surprising...maximum was
2.1 kW !!! Much higher than without the cleats...and this was in Eco/
Slow mode.

[cdwhite4]

Hmm, so much for Ken Cline's article...

[Ken Cline]

I stand by everything I wrote about clips. Keep in mind, I explicitely mentioned cases where clipless pedals are valuable: "If you sprint; if you spin; if your ride rough terrain; if you use the clipless connection for stunts (e.g. hopping); or if you just like the look better then by all means put clipless pedals on your Optibike. No arguments from me there."

Many people will primarily ride their optibikes at modest cadences (<90rpm), and with modest leg-power output. For them - and for me - the advantages of not clipping in may outweigh the occasional utility they provide.

And remember. This is not just my pet theory. I posted references.

[cdwhite4]

I've just never ridden a bike where I haven't: sprinted, spun, or
ridden rough terrain. So I have no reference for what that means.
Also, I don't consider myself hard core, and I'm always in cadences
>90rpm. Not hard on an optibike.

And for what its worth, I prefer clipless, I have some big cleated
paddels...

But even after reading the article you posted, I don't see the lycra's
moving the pedals because "it doesn't make a difference". The fact is
that on a typical ride, most will sprint, spin or ride rough terrain,
hence the clips...

> >> Slow mode.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Primary Pollster]

Agree. This is just a silly debate to even be having. Sorry, I just find any assertion that platform pedals are the performance equal for anything more than for riding 5 mins. to the local shops plain dopey.

The arguments that clipless are not superior would be laughed out of court in 99.9% of any other serious cycling forum I know of and I knoe meant; electric, racing, MTB casual, social, and safety-oriented cycling forums. ":doesnt make a diffrenec"???!! Please!

Next people will be preaching Intelligent Design to me and Happy-Clapping their gods. And next flat earth still exists too. I’m happy for others to have PREFERENCES, but really don't give me scraps of "eveidence" to support a minority view ...

[Ken Cline]

On 7 Jan 2010, at 9:10 PM, Primary Pollster wrote:

Agree. This is just a silly debate to even be having. Sorry, I just find any assertion that platform pedals are the performance equal for anything more than for riding 5 mins. to the local shops plain dopey. 

Dopey?  Come on, you can do better than that.  Let's keep the discussion civil from here on.  Okay?  If we disagree, I know I can present my side without resorting to name calling.

Now let me ask if the Internaltion Journal of Sports Medicine is also "dopey".  If you have been reading this discussion from the beginning, you will  that "shoe-pedal interface (PED vs. CLIP) did not significantly influence cycling technique during submaximal exercise."  [Int J Sports Med. 2008 Oct;29(10):817-22. Epub 2008 Apr 17]

The arguments that clipless are not superior would be laughed out of court in 99.9% of any other serious cycling forum I know of and I knoe meant; electric, racing, MTB casual, social, and safety-oriented cycling forums. ":doesnt make a diffrenec"???!! Please!

I honestly believe that if I switched to clipless, most of my Optibike rides would take more time due because any savings would be offset by the time it takes me to change shoes.  I usually pedal with power assist, and use the boost for most of the work when accelerating.  When I want a higher power cycling workout, I choose one of my other bikes.

That said, riding my road bike with flat pedals is a horrible experience.  I can't climb.  I can't spin.  I may be imagining it, but the bike feels downright unbalanced.  It totally depends on the type of riding being done.

Next people will be preaching Intelligent Design to me and Happy-Clapping their gods. And next flat earth still exists too. I’m happy for others to have PREFERENCES, but really don't give me scraps of "eveidence" to support a minority view ...

That is just insulting.  I've offered peer-reviewed studies supporting my position as well as the testimony of a nationally ranked, three-time state champion, bicycle racer (retired).  You can't compare me to "Intelligent Design" lunatics.  At least not if you are being intellectually honest.

[cdwhite4]

My only point is that based on Remf's single data point for an
optibike rider, the data supports he does increase his power... Remf,
what type of riding were you doing?
My issue with Ken's article is with his assertion that optibike riders
fall into the category described in the the research. I just disagree
with that point...

I should have been more clear and not so flippant. My apologies...

[Ken Cline]

On 8 Jan 2010, at 10:41 AM, cdwhite4 wrote:

> My issue with Ken's article is with his assertion that optibike riders
> fall into the category described in the the research. I just disagree
> with that point...

Just to clarify, I never, ever asserted that Optibike riders as a group do not benefit from clipless pedals.

We are too varied an assortment to make any such generalization. If you are better off with your clipless pedals, I'm happy for you. Chances are pretty good that people who will benefit from clipless pedals already know (or at least suspect) it. Those who do not feel the need can be reassured that they are not missing out on much - at least with regard Optibike riding (n.b. unassisted road bike riders are far more likely to benefit).

For what it's worth, I consider myself an aggressive rider. I have the scars to prove it ;-) Because of the Optibike's power, I find I rarely ride it with enough human power input to gain any significant benefit from being clipped in. My only other datapoint is a leisurely ride with another local Optibike rider. I'm not fool enough to think that this means you, or Cakey, or anyone else rides the same way. But based on my hard core style (hell, I ride mountain unicycles), I think it is fair to assume that there are at least as many Opti owners who are less powerful than me in their riding as those who push harder. I have no doubt whatsoever that the study I referred to is applicable to those in the former category.

[Ken Cline]

Oh, one more thing. I built myself a nice road bike this summer, and put a mess of miles on it. Every one ridden with clipless pedals. I'm not opposed to their appropriate use, just the mythology that they help even casual cycling.

[rem f]

The ride was a series of all-out power bursts on a test ride to see
how much extra power I could generate being clipped in. For only a few
seconds, I could see an extra 600 watts above the maximum I usually
get with platforms.

I may soon be able to demonstrate.

>>> Clapping their gods. And next flat earth still exists too. I�fm h

>>> appy for others to have PREFERENCES, but really don't give me sc
>>> raps of "eveidence" to support a minority view ...
>>
>> That is just insulting. I've offered peer-reviewed studies
>> supporting my position as well as the testimony of a nationally
>> ranked, three-time state champion, bicycle racer (retired). You
>> can't compare me to "Intelligent Design" lunatics. At least not if
>> you are being intellectually honest.

[remf]

While shooting a video today, I hit 2,376 Watts. This was in Fast/Fast mode on 50/13 teeth for the first time, using the platform side of my half half clipless pedals and Crocs.

This video will probably be the first public demonstration of Charles' fantastic Video Annotation Tool. There won't be Watts displayed in the first video but it's all set up to include the power data once the firmware upgrade arrives for the ibike.

2010/1/9 rem f <opti...@gmail.com>

[Jim_Kirk]

Remf,
Ah, this surely puts to rest the argument of clip in vs platform
pedals. We must all obtain Crocs for maximum speed but, before I jump
to a conclusion, please tell us the color of your Crocs. :).

On Jan 12, 5:56 am, remf <optibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> While shooting a video today, I hit 2,376 Watts. This was in Fast/Fast mode
> on 50/13 teeth for the first time, using the platform side of my half half
> clipless pedals and Crocs.
>
> This video will probably be the first public demonstration of Charles'
> fantastic Video Annotation Tool. There won't be Watts displayed in the first
> video but it's all set up to include the power data once the firmware
> upgrade arrives for the ibike.
>

> 2010/1/9 rem f <optibi...@gmail.com>

>
> > The ride was a series of all-out power bursts on a test ride to see
> > how much extra power I could generate being clipped in. For only a few
> > seconds, I could see an extra 600 watts above the maximum I usually
> > get with platforms.
>
> > I may soon be able to demonstrate.
>

> > > optibike-owners-...@googlegroups.com<optibike-owners-group%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/optibike-owners-group
>
>
>

>  2376W.jpg
> 181KViewDownload

[remf]

Jim, it must be the Boulder power nexus. Crocs are from Boulder too.

They were charcoal canvas now they're mud brown mud :)

Highly recommended for when you need to drag a leg for balance on loose gravel.

2010/1/13 Jim_Kirk <j...@jakirk.com>

[Bike_On]

I thought crocs were from Aussie?

> > > > > optibike-owners-...@googlegroups.com<optibike-owners-group%2B­unsub...@googlegroups.com>
> > <optibike-owners-group%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<optibike-owners-group­%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

>
> > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/optibike-owners-group
>
> > >  2376W.jpg
> > > 181KViewDownload
>
> > --
> > You received this email because you have an eye for quality, performance,
> > and style that only comes with an Optibike.
>
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > optibike-o...@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > optibike-owners-...@googlegroups.com<optibike-owners-group%2B­unsub...@googlegroups.com>

> > For more options, visit this group at

> >http://groups.google.com/group/optibike-owners-group- Hide quoted text -

[remf]

Thanks to Crocodile Dundee & Steve Irwin all things with croc in their name will forever be thought of as Aussie. Crocs are from Niwot, CO, Kwoks are from China & thongs are Australian.

2010/1/13 Bike_On <thero...@verizon.net>

[remf]

I've been testing the Pro & Garmin upgrades for the iSport over the last couple of weeks. The upgrades are the equivalent of an iBike GT Wireless & allow data analysis, ANT+ connectivity & consolidation of data, ie. heart-rate, elevation, power, cadence, etc into a .tcx file - Garmin Training Center.

Here's some screenshots:

The first shows a ride file from the iBike that's unaltered. It shows maximum speed as 59mph @ -7.1% downhill, 83 rpm cadence & 1,021 Watts.

The second is after I used iBike's Remove Spikes function, 2 spikes were removed & the maximum speed displayed is now 47mph @ -12.2% downhill, 94 cadence & 364 watts.

Makes sense...though that's the only time I've had spikes and was probably due to the varying direction of the big wind gusts on that day.

The other observation is that when the iSport or Pro, is NOT connected to a cadence monitor, it will show total Watts regardless of whether you're pedalling or not.

Pair an iBike or Garmin cadence monitor to the iBike GT Wireless and Watts will only show if you're pedalling - forwards...or backwards (definitely not advised) !!! But no Watts displayed if you have zero cadence.

[Bike_On]

Awesome stuff Remf. Does the iBike detect wind speed external? Do you
have to estimate a given wind current speed and program each ride?

>  iBike.tiff
> 338KViewDownload
>
>  iBike_removespikes.tiff
> 340KViewDownload

[remf]

It detects wind speed through the pitot-static port on the front of the unit. Wind-speed can be displayed relative to the bike or to the ground...not wind direction but that's not difficult to work out.

You don't have to estimate but you can adjust the weather or get more detailed wind & temperature at your location from a server at any time post ride.

2010/1/28 Bike_On <thero...@verizon.net>

--