Shift-Delete not supported
Ian Murphy
Does anyone else miss the lack of support for shift-delete to cut?
I use shift-delete/shift-insert to cut and paste all the time. I thought it
was something basic in the windows handling of a textbox, but within Opera
shift-delete is the same as delete. Shift insert works fine.
Is this something which is configurable?
Ian Murphy
IntegraXP
M Cowperthwaite
> Does anyone else miss the lack of support for shift-delete to cut?
Oh, yeah. :) It's come up for discussion a number of times before.
> Is this something which is configurable?
Yes it is. In your INPUT.INI file, you want to add this line:
[Application]
Del shift = Cut
and remove any other 'Del shift' lines
from [Application] and [Edit Widget] sections.
--
Michael Cowperthwaite
To send mail, remove 'Z's from the poster's email address.
Wojciech Eysymontt
"M Cowperthwaite" <4...@ZtoastZ.net> was that kind to write:
> Ian Murphy wrote:
> > Does anyone else miss the lack of support for shift-delete to cut?
>
> Oh, yeah. :) It's come up for discussion a number of times before.
>
> > Is this something which is configurable?
>
> Yes it is. In your INPUT.INI file, you want to add this line:
>
> [Application]
> Del shift = Cut
>
> and remove any other 'Del shift' lines
> from [Application] and [Edit Widget] sections.
A lot of effort to change it... But bigger problem is that almost no-one
(not noone ;) ) knows that changing it - is possible. Many people may not
know what's going on and be desoriented (like I was until I discovered that
"Cut does not work") and pissed on Opera. :-(
I *really* encourage Opera software to change the behaviour to Cut. I don't
get why pressing Shift+Del is better than just pressing Backspace. Pressing
one button - Backspace is faster!
Let Opera Software make a POLL maybe. I will be eagerly awaiting results. I
believe very few people will opt for Backpace uh?
Hey, at least maybe there could be an option in preferences for easy
changing of this behavior without digging in ini files. It's quite special
and often used function so I believe it would be helpful for many MANY
people.
--
Regards
Wojciech E.
Me: http://my.opera.com/photos/
Ian Murphy
wrote:
> Ian Murphy wrote:
>> Does anyone else miss the lack of support for shift-delete to cut?
>
> Oh, yeah. :) It's come up for discussion a number of times before.
>
>> Is this something which is configurable?
>
> Yes it is. In your INPUT.INI file, you want to add this line:
>
> [Application]
> Del shift = Cut
>
> and remove any other 'Del shift' lines
> from [Application] and [Edit Widget] sections.
>
Thanks for that, I'm afraid I still haven't worked out how to search these
newsgroups. My reader shows a month or so.. reasonable but I haven't found
any links on the opera site to archives.
Ian
Chris J Breisch
<wojci...@NO.SPAM.komtech.com.pl> wrote:
> A lot of effort to change it... But bigger problem is that almost no-one
> (not noone ;) ) knows that changing it - is possible. Many people may not
> know what's going on and be desoriented (like I was until I discovered
> that
> "Cut does not work") and pissed on Opera. :-(
> I *really* encourage Opera software to change the behaviour to Cut. I
> don't
> get why pressing Shift+Del is better than just pressing Backspace.
> Pressing
> one button - Backspace is faster!
>
> Let Opera Software make a POLL maybe. I will be eagerly awaiting results.
> I
> believe very few people will opt for Backpace uh?
> Hey, at least maybe there could be an option in preferences for easy
> changing of this behavior without digging in ini files. It's quite
> special
> and often used function so I believe it would be helpful for many MANY
> people.
>
While I agree with you (I use shift+delete, ctrl+insert, shift+insert), it
is worth noting that those shortcuts are officially deprecated by MS as
being the proper way to do cut, copy, paste. Current Windows applications
are supposed to support ctrl-x, ctrl-c, and ctrl-v, and support of the
other shortcuts is considered optional.
So, Opera is merely complying with MS standards for Windows apps.
--
Chris J. Breisch, Opera7.03/Win32 build 2670
Wojciech Eysymontt
"Ian Murphy" <not...@integra-xp.com.ian> was that kind to write:
>
> Does anyone else miss the lack of support for shift-delete to cut?
A LOT.
And I believe many miss it and wonder "F***! Cut is broken. I have to use
Ctrl+C" - because they don't know it's possible to redefine Shift+Delete to
Cut.
I hope Opera changes this behaviour back to Cut or at least give an option
in preferences to choose: "Cut or Backspace for Shift+Del" - so that it
would be easy to change this *often* used keyboard shortcut. Pretty good
solution for satisfaction of everyone.
> I use shift-delete/shift-insert to cut and paste all the time. I thought
it
> was something basic in the windows handling of a textbox, but within Opera
> shift-delete is the same as delete. Shift insert works fine.
Shift+Delete is.... Backspace.
I don't get at all why pressing two butons was considered faster than
pressing one - just Backspace....
Seems like someone was toying with extreme shortcuts tuning - so that some
user does not have to move his one finger from Delete to Backspace (1,5 cm)
but the other finger which is supposed to be over Shift will press it.
Kinda... Sick...
Ian Murphy
wrote:
> While I agree with you (I use shift+delete, ctrl+insert, shift+insert),
> it is worth noting that those shortcuts are officially deprecated by MS
> as being the proper way to do cut, copy, paste. Current Windows
> applications are supposed to support ctrl-x, ctrl-c, and ctrl-v, and
> support of the other shortcuts is considered optional.
>
> So, Opera is merely complying with MS standards for Windows apps.
>
It is?? Seems incredible, ctrl-x etc are the old wordstar keys. Shift-del
etc are much more logical.. and I find them easier to reach as well.
Ian
Ian Murphy
<wojci...@NO.SPAM.komtech.com.pl> wrote:
This will make you laugh. I have worked as tech support for over 10
years.... so I'm not a beginner.
Last year I set up Linux on my home machine and installed opera. I used it
exclusively and was very happy with it, except for the shift-delete
business. I assumed it was something in gnome/kde textbox handling and so
didn't investigate. It wasn't until I set up opera here at work on a winxp
machine that I realised it was opera and not the os.
Its taken until now for me to search around for a solution.
Ian
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
M Cowperthwaite
> I *really* encourage Opera software to change the behaviour to Cut. I
> don't get why pressing Shift+Del is better than just pressing
> Backspace. Pressing one button - Backspace is faster!
A posting by Rijk in the past couple of weeks indicated that they are
going to reimplement those shortcuts by default.
Richard Grevers
wrote:
I've never been able to learn/remember the shift-del ones - compounded by
the fact that I'm sure I've used software where they had different
functions, and insert and del keys are in different places on the various
keyboards I use. (I still have to hunt for it on my laptop).
Derek Parnell
wrote:
>
> Does anyone else miss the lack of support for shift-delete to cut?
Not at all. Never used it. I've always used Ctrl-X, Ctrl-V, and Ctrl-C for
these related editing functions. I thought that those Ctrl-combinations
were the Windows standard. I believe that MS-DOS used the Shift-combos, but
I'm not using MS-DOS as Opera's platform.
--
Derek Parnell
Paul Neubauer
I'd not used shift-delete, but I'd sorely miss (and consider it
an outright bug) if shift-insert did not work. It is easily the
most convenient way to insert text with a free right hand - and
since I my left hand for the pointer (mouse, trackball), I do
have that right hand free.
--
PN
Wojciech Eysymontt
> On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:02:31 +0100, Ian Murphy
<not...@integra-xp.com.ian>
> wrote:
> >
> > It is?? Seems incredible, ctrl-x etc are the old wordstar keys.
Shift-del
> > etc are much more logical.. and I find them easier to reach as well.
> >
> I've never been able to learn/remember the shift-del ones - compounded by
I've learned using them in UIs to programming languages - Pascal, C++ (DOS),
and Magic (Windows) - that I've been still programing currently in.
I find them faster and more comfortable to access than Ctr+C and so on.
> the fact that I'm sure I've used software where they had different
> functions, and insert and del keys are in different places on the various
> keyboards I use. (I still have to hunt for it on my laptop).
oh yes. Laptops have tricky keyboards. Each one different... :-|
--
Regards
Wojciech E.
Me: <URL:http://my.opera.com/photos/>
Wojciech Eysymontt
"M Cowperthwaite" <4...@ZtoastZ.net> was that kind to write:
> > I *really* encourage Opera software to change the behaviour to Cut. I
> > don't get why pressing Shift+Del is better than just pressing
> > Backspace. Pressing one button - Backspace is faster!
>
> A posting by Rijk in the past couple of weeks indicated that they are
> going to reimplement those shortcuts by default.
Really? Which posting? I missed it...
If it's true, than fine. Very good. Whose's against...? ...I don't hear any
voice. :-)
--
Regards
Wojciech E.
Me: <URL:http://my.opera.com/photos/>
Wojciech Eysymontt
"Ian Murphy" <not...@integra-xp.com.ian> was that kind to write:
> <wojci...@NO.SPAM.komtech.com.pl> wrote:
>
> This will make you laugh. I have worked as tech support for over 10
> years.... so I'm not a beginner.
>
> Last year I set up Linux on my home machine and installed opera. I used it
> exclusively and was very happy with it, except for the shift-delete
> business. I assumed it was something in gnome/kde textbox handling and so
> didn't investigate. It wasn't until I set up opera here at work on a winxp
> machine that I realised it was opera and not the os.
>
> Its taken until now for me to search around for a solution.
You came up to the problem way too professionally, scientifically. :-))
Happens. I know from my own exprerience - looking for a serious problem when
it turns out to be a trivial one - like a plug out of socket or similar.
:o))
--
Regards
Wojciech E.
Me: <URL:http://my.opera.com/photos/>
TS (Thomas Schiepek)
wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:46:32 +0100, Wojciech Eysymontt
That may well be, but I can use the _old_ shortcuts blindly while reading
text because they are in separate blocks on the keyboard anf thus easy fo
find. Furthermore, while ctrl-x, -c, -v are completely arbitrary, the use
of the insert key to insert text and of the delete key to delete text makes
sense.
--
Thomas Schiepek
Matthew Winn
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:02:31 +0100, Ian Murphy <not...@integra-xp.com.ian> wrote:
> wrote:
> > So, Opera is merely complying with MS standards for Windows apps.
>
> It is?? Seems incredible, ctrl-x etc are the old wordstar keys.
I thought ^X was cursor down in WordStar. If I remember correctly the
diamond of ^E/^S/^D/^X was up/left/right/down, ^R and ^C were page up
and page down, ^W and ^Z were something else up and down. It was one
of the most logical command structures I've ever used, except it didn't
work worth a damn on non-US keyboard layouts.
--
Matthew Winn
Lauri Raittila
> That may well be, but I can use the _old_ shortcuts blindly while reading
> text because they are in separate blocks on the keyboard anf thus easy fo
> find. Furthermore, while ctrl-x, -c, -v are completely arbitrary, the use
> of the insert key to insert text and of the delete key to delete text makes
> sense.
They (xcv) are much easier to use with just left hand. And while using
mouse, the right hand is on the mouse, I don't like to move it anywhere.
The problem is, when I'm using them blindly, I may be using them in wrong
window - it's hard when not all support same - I often use wrong shortcut
in wrong window.)
--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.
Michał
wrote:
> In article <oprmqilh...@news.opera.no>, TS (Thomas Schiepek) wrote:
>
>> That may well be, but I can use the _old_ shortcuts blindly while
>> reading text because they are in separate blocks on the keyboard anf
>> thus easy fo find. Furthermore, while ctrl-x, -c, -v are completely
>> arbitrary, the use of the insert key to insert text and of the delete
>> key to delete text makes sense.
It's not _completely_ arbitrary. C stands for copy ;)
> They (xcv) are much easier to use with just left hand. And while using
> mouse, the right hand is on the mouse, I don't like to move it anywhere.
If you use mouse in your right hand it's true. But when writing a text it
is
faster to use shift, ctrl, alt + arrows, ins, del, backspace than to switch
to mouse. I use these keys blindly, while to use ctrl+xcv I have to look at
the keyboard.
IMHO another shortcut should be also enabled by default: (Shift+)
Alt+Backspace
which stands for (redo and) undo.
Paul Neubauer
>
> They (xcv) are much easier to use with just left hand. And while using
> mouse, the right hand is on the mouse, I don't like to move it anywhere.
YOUR right hand, perhaps. Mine is shift-inserting.
My LEFT hand, however, is resting on the trackball.
Not everybody uses a computer "right hand - mouse hand."
--
PN
M Cowperthwaite
> It's not _completely_ arbitrary. C stands for copy ;)
And 'X' is a reasonable Cut acronym -- "X it out"; and "V" is like the
proofreading mark for "insert text here." It's actually a very sensible
set of mnemonics, and conveniently grouped and located for left-hand use.
And I still prefer Ctrl-Ins/Shift-Del/Shift-Ins. :)
Actually, the first keystrokes I learned for Cut and Paste were Ctrl-K
and Ctrl-U in Emacs. In Brief, Cut and Paste were the keypad - and +
keys. I don't remember what either one used for Copy. My text editor's
keyboard commands are highly customized, and I still have a few Emacs
assignment and quite a few Brief assignments. Old habits die hard.
Van Grieg
wrote:
> Michal wrote:
>> It's not _completely_ arbitrary. C stands for copy ;)
>
> And 'X' is a reasonable Cut acronym -- "X it out"; and "V" is like the
> proofreading mark for "insert text here." It's actually a very sensible
> set of mnemonics, and conveniently grouped and located for left-hand use.
Before this problem was first mentioned here, I was absolutely confident
that Shift + Del meant "Delete completely, bypassing Trash". The very idea
of using this shortcut for cutting sounds perverted to me therefore. :)
--
Van Grieg
Tim
>> They (xcv) are much easier to use with just left hand. And while using
>> mouse, the right hand is on the mouse, I don't like to move it anywhere.
On 29 Mar 2003 02:53:09 GMT,
Paul Neubauer <va...@belgian.conmicro.cx> wrote:
> YOUR right hand, perhaps. Mine is shift-inserting.
> My LEFT hand, however, is resting on the trackball.
>
> Not everybody uses a computer "right hand - mouse hand."
Actually, if you're typing properly, you're supposed to use the control,
shift, alternate, etc., qualifier keys with the opposite hand to which
you're typing the letter with.
e.g. Left hand little finger presses shift, while right hand little
finger presses P, to type a capital P.
The reason being; that it's bad news for your muscles to go through the
contortions of trying to do it all with one hand (even if you're not
typing with the correct "touch typing" fingers).
If you'd learnt on a manual typewriter, you'd never attempt to try that
(it'd really hurt, and probably be impossible). But despite it being
harder to type on a manual, I don't think I've heard of people getting
RSI from using them. That's a computer disease, where you're doing
short quick movements (the keys don't move enough, and it's like
stabbing your finger on a solid object, or you deliberately restrain
your fingers so they only move a tiny bit).
Lauri Raittila
wrote:
> In article <MPG.18ee46952...@news.cis.dfn.de>, Lauri Raittila wrote:
> >
> > They (xcv) are much easier to use with just left hand. And while using
> > mouse, the right hand is on the mouse, I don't like to move it anywhere.
>
> YOUR right hand, perhaps. Mine is shift-inserting.
> My LEFT hand, however, is resting on the trackball.
Yes, and you off course use the other commands. As I do when I happen to
use machine with mouse on left side (the one 1m rightwards - but in that
I don't have Opera.).
But, it is at least as stupid to say xcv is not good choise as saying
that people always use mouse with right hand. Or that people always use
mouse.
> Not everybody uses a computer "right hand - mouse hand."
Of course not. I was just saying that xcv is not stupid position for
those keys. Both should work. I use the old way when I have my both hands
on keyboard, and program supports it.
Derek Parnell
overlooked is that, it is good that Opera 7 allows us to customize these
functions to our own pleasing. Nice one, Team Opera.
--
Derek Parnell
Peter Karlsson
> Before this problem was first mentioned here, I was absolutely confident
> that Shift + Del meant "Delete completely, bypassing Trash". The very idea
> of using this shortcut for cutting sounds perverted to me therefore. :)
Shift+Delete is the shortcut for cutting text according to IBM's CUA91
standard. The very idea of using this shortcut for deleting something,
bypassing trash (as in Windows 95 and up), sounds perverted to me...
--
\\//
Peter, developer / utvecklare / utvikler / Entwickler, Opera Software
The opinions expressed are my own, and not those of my employer.
Please reply only by follow-ups in the newsgroup.