Opera Link: Mail-Accounts, Newsgroup filters
Rudolf Harras
better for synchronizing newsgroups you are reading and their filters!
But first Opera should have mail and news functions that are actually
useable. :-/
Aaron W. Hsu
>I think Opera Link is great, it could also be used for mail-accounts, or
>better for synchronizing newsgroups you are reading and their filters!
I think some people have discussed the difficulties of mail with Opera
Link, but it may be possible to do in the future.
>But first Opera should have mail and news functions that are actually
>useable. :-/
I've written a blog post on just why I think Opera is so usable as a
mail client:
<http://my.opera.com/arcfide/blog/2009/10/12/managing-email-in-opera>
It's hard to accomplish the same in other email clients so easily.
Aaron W. Hsu
--
A professor is one who talks in someone else's sleep.
Rudolf Harras
> Rudolf Harras <rud...@temporaryforwarding.com> writes:
>
>>I think Opera Link is great, it could also be used for mail-accounts, or
>>better for synchronizing newsgroups you are reading and their filters!
>
> I think some people have discussed the difficulties of mail with Opera
> Link, but it may be possible to do in the future.
For mail ok, but for usenet-settings it should be easier I guess.
>>But first Opera should have mail and news functions that are actually
>>useable. :-/
>
> I've written a blog post on just why I think Opera is so usable as a
> mail client:
>
> <http://my.opera.com/arcfide/blog/2009/10/12/managing-email-in-opera>
>
> It's hard to accomplish the same in other email clients so easily.
But there are major things making Opera unusable for mail:
1. No Alias Mail-Adresses supportet
2. Doesn't recognize Spam-Order: When you use an IMAP-Mail account with
automatic Spam-Order, Opera will still make a pop up window on every
Spam messaging arriving.
Aaron W. Hsu
>But there are major things making Opera unusable for mail:
>1. No Alias Mail-Adresses supportet
What are these? Are you talking about address groups? Those are
perfectly possible in Opera, so maybe I'm missing your meaning.
>2. Doesn't recognize Spam-Order: When you use an IMAP-Mail account with
>automatic Spam-Order, Opera will still make a pop up window on every
>Spam messaging arriving.
Spam-Order? What is automatic spam order? You're not talking about spam
filtering here and a quick search didn't indicate anything useful for
me. I've never had a pop-up message for spam arriving.
Eik
wrote:
>> 1. No Alias Mail-Adresses supportet
>
> What are these?
I think he means the ability to associate two or more sender email
addresses with the same Opera mail account.
Some people register a domain name with very basic mail options that rely
on a catchall mailbox to let you use multiple email addresses. Others may
use one mail provider to automatically check for mail in all their other
mail boxes (from different ISPs) so that they can download everything from
one mailbox.
The problem here is that you'll be recieving mail with varying 'To'
addresses into the same mailbox, but when you reply Opera only use the
sender address you entered in the account preferences.
Sending email is easier in that you can set up multiple accounts in Opera
with the same settings, just a different sending email address, and make
sure that only one of them ever checks for mail. But when you reply, you
have to choose manually which account to send from - and it's too easy to
forget and make mistakes. It also messes up your searches and
filters/views because one mail account shows all the recieved mail while
the replies you sent are scattered across multiple accounts.
Opera already lets you add multiple email addresses to each of your
contacts so that it automatically recognises incoming messages as being
from the same person. I suppose what is wanted is an outgoing version of
this where if you click on an account name in the 'From' field of the
compose window, and that account has aliases, Opera displays a pop-up list
of addresses to choose from.
Rudolf Harras
> Rudolf Harras <rud...@temporaryforwarding.com> writes:
>
>>But there are major things making Opera unusable for mail:
>
>>1. No Alias Mail-Adresses supportet
>
> What are these? Are you talking about address groups? Those are
> perfectly possible in Opera, so maybe I'm missing your meaning.
Eik explained exactly what I ment in the other posting, there you can
read the full details.
In short: Nowadays you usually have things like 1 Mail box with 5
Alias-Adresses. Unfortunately if someone sends mit a mail to
ma...@domain.invalid Opera still will reply from def...@domain.invalid
for example. So I'd have to create a new mailbox for each alias. In
other Mail-Clients like Thunderbird you just have to create an "Identity".
>>2. Doesn't recognize Spam-Order: When you use an IMAP-Mail account with
>>automatic Spam-Order, Opera will still make a pop up window on every
>>Spam messaging arriving.
>
> Spam-Order? What is automatic spam order? You're not talking about spam
> filtering here and a quick search didn't indicate anything useful for
> me. I've never had a pop-up message for spam arriving.
I'm not talking about the Spam-Function of Opera.
I have an IMAP-Mail-Adress where the server automatically detects Spam
and puts it into the "Autospam"-Folder. Other Mailprogramms like
Thunderbird or Becky automatically handle Mails in this folder like if
they were already read.
Opera however handles them like new Mails and so they show up in the
popup as well as in the new mails. The only thing I can make in Opera is
not to subscribe this folder but then I cannot check if there might be
some false positive inside this folder.
Aaron W. Hsu
>In short: Nowadays you usually have things like 1 Mail box with 5
>Alias-Adresses. Unfortunately if someone sends mit a mail to
>ma...@domain.invalid Opera still will reply from def...@domain.invalid
>for example. So I'd have to create a new mailbox for each alias. In
>other Mail-Clients like Thunderbird you just have to create an "Identity".
Ah, yes, I understand now. It seems like this is one of those hit and
miss features that some class of mail clients have lots of support for,
and others don't. I believe you can work around this in Opera by
creating dud accounts, but I believe that does add a line in your
mailbox lists. I'm not sure whether there is some trick to this in Opera
though. I haven't don't this in a while (it became too much of a
hassle), so I don't remember. I know that in OS X Mail, you can separate
multiple email aliases with commas in the account. Maybe you can do
something similar in Opera? If not, there's always the dud account
method.
>>>2. Doesn't recognize Spam-Order: When you use an IMAP-Mail account with
>>>automatic Spam-Order, Opera will still make a pop up window on every
>>>Spam messaging arriving.
>>
>> Spam-Order? What is automatic spam order? You're not talking about spam
>> filtering here and a quick search didn't indicate anything useful for
>> me. I've never had a pop-up message for spam arriving.
>I'm not talking about the Spam-Function of Opera.
>I have an IMAP-Mail-Adress where the server automatically detects Spam
>and puts it into the "Autospam"-Folder. Other Mailprogramms like
>Thunderbird or Becky automatically handle Mails in this folder like if
>they were already read.
>Opera however handles them like new Mails and so they show up in the
>popup as well as in the new mails. The only thing I can make in Opera is
>not to subscribe this folder but then I cannot check if there might be
>some false positive inside this folder.
Aah, I see what you mean. I haven't done this before, as I usually don't
work with IMAP, but in POP, I can create a filter such that any message
that enters or is caught or visible in that filter is automatically
marked as having been read and/or filtered. You may be able to somehow
associate a filter with this mail box, or maybe set up a filter that
fires when the message is in that mailbox folder? I don't know, but you
might want to try that avenue. In the worst case, you could always use
Opera's automatic filtering to try to guess at which messages will end
up in that folder and then mark them as read automatically. :-)
Rudolf Harras
>I believe you can work around this in Opera by
>creating dud accounts, but I believe that does add a line in your
>mailbox lists.
Exactly. The solution has also other problems, e.g. mails to some alia
addresses will be answert with the default address instead of answering
them mit the same mail address automatically.
This and the Autospam thing are 2 major functions missing for a good
mail client. Sure I could do a workaround but why should I when
Thunderbird is much easier in this case? I hope that Opera once will
have the functions included, but as it is now its not very usable since
every mailprovider offers alias addresses nowadays.
I don't really understand why Opera adds a lot of new features instead
of makeing some existing things more usable.
Aaron W. Hsu
>Aaron W. Hsu schrieb:
>>I believe you can work around this in Opera by
>>creating dud accounts, but I believe that does add a line in your
>>mailbox lists.
>Exactly. The solution has also other problems, e.g. mails to some alia
>addresses will be answert with the default address instead of answering
>them mit the same mail address automatically.
Yes, proper profiles in Opera Mail wouldn't be a bad feature IMO.
>This and the Autospam thing are 2 major functions missing for a good
>mail client. Sure I could do a workaround but why should I when
>Thunderbird is much easier in this case? I hope that Opera once will
>have the functions included, but as it is now its not very usable since
>every mailprovider offers alias addresses nowadays.
What you are talking about is IMAP Folder filtering, which is a little
different than the Autospam. I think this could also be a nice feature,
if Opera could apply rules or other behaviors to folders in an IMAP
store, but keep in mind that Opera's Mail paradigm is specifically
designed to avoid folders.
If this is the single most vastly important feature to you, then it may
make a difference and you may not want to use Opera Mail. On the other
hand, Opera Mail has many other features that you just won't find in
Thunderbird, and these are features that matter to me, so I use Opera
Mail and like it. I haven't had a problem with aliases, because it's
easy to select the specific account I want, and I also control my own
mail server, so I get to choose how things behave on there, which makes
it possible for me to integrate Opera in exactly the way I want. You may
not have this luxury.
>I don't really understand why Opera adds a lot of new features instead
>of makeing some existing things more usable.
Because some of us like these new features? The feature I want to see in
Opera Mail is PGP/GPG support. That hasn't happened for quite a while,
but it would really make my day.
Rudolf Harras
>Yes, proper profiles in Opera Mail wouldn't be a bad feature IMO.
Definately - most of the providers offer Alias-Addresses nowadays.
>What you are talking about is IMAP Folder filtering, which is a little
>different than the Autospam. I think this could also be a nice feature,
>if Opera could apply rules or other behaviors to folders in an IMAP
>store, but keep in mind that Opera's Mail paradigm is specifically
>designed to avoid folders.
>
>If this is the single most vastly important feature to you, then it may
>make a difference and you may not want to use Opera Mail.
Well that Spam-Folder is also offered by many providers. And if Opera
does not recognize this then it is not useable at all with IMAP. This is
no special-feature this is common if you use IMAP.
For example Thunderbird:
http://uckanleitungen.de/thunderbird/gnupg-verschluesselung/snapshots/thunderbird-gnupg-verschluesselung-004.png
You have that Junk-Folder which accords to the Folder "Autospam" or
whatever on the server. Messages that end up in this folder will not be
shown in the pop-up window.
In Opera you will get a pop-up-window all 5 minutes because it reports
every spam as new message.
>On the other
>hand, Opera Mail has many other features that you just won't find in
>Thunderbird
Maybe but this are not essential functions. Maybe Opera is made for POP3
use only...
>>I don't really understand why Opera adds a lot of new features instead
>>of makeing some existing things more usable.
>
>Because some of us like these new features? The feature I want to see in
>Opera Mail is PGP/GPG support. That hasn't happened for quite a while,
>but it would really make my day.
The new features aren't bad but first Opera should try to make the
IMAP-function usable as well as making a usual line brak in news
articles.
I also like the Opera IRC best but here also essential Features like DCC
Send and Recieve are missing.
Aaron W. Hsu
>Aaron W. Hsu schrieb:
>>Yes, proper profiles in Opera Mail wouldn't be a bad feature IMO.
>Definately - most of the providers offer Alias-Addresses nowadays.
But there are workarounds in Opera that work.
>Well that Spam-Folder is also offered by many providers. And if Opera
>does not recognize this then it is not useable at all with IMAP. This is
>no special-feature this is common if you use IMAP.
I haven't used IMAP often with Opera, but it is certainly usable, even
given this. On the other hand, have you tried playing with filters and
other things like this to see if it is possible to duplicate the
functionality?
I did find the following links which may be of use to you:
<http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=303582>
<http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=298716>
<http://operawiki.info/GmailIMAP>
>Maybe but this are not essential functions. Maybe Opera is made for POP3
>use only...
Just remember that your way of handling email is hardly the only way,
and maybe not even the best.
>The new features aren't bad but first Opera should try to make the
>IMAP-function usable as well as making a usual line brak in news
>articles.
Opera has put a lot of work into improving their IMAP support. Put in
your feature requests and bug reports. If you look at the changes they
made for the 10.xx series, you'll see how much work has gone into it.
I'm not sure what you mean by line breaks in news articles, but Opera
uses standard mime-formatted email, which has a standard line wrapping,
but which affords a nicer email display on supported browsers.
>I also like the Opera IRC best but here also essential Features like DCC
>Send and Recieve are missing.
Opera IRC most certainly does support IRC DCC.
Rudolf Harras
>But there are workarounds in Opera that work.
Yes but they are not very comfortable also you will answer you mails
with your default mail address instead with the mail address the
original mail was sent to. And there is no workaraound for this.
>I haven't used IMAP often with Opera, but it is certainly usable, even
>given this. On the other hand, have you tried playing with filters and
>other things like this to see if it is possible to duplicate the
>functionality?
>
>I did find the following links which may be of use to you:
Thanks. But as you see here also others think that the IMAP support of
Opera is very incomplete. Unsubscribing the Spam-Folder is no good
solutions since you cannot check for false positives then.
>Just remember that your way of handling email is hardly the only way,
>and maybe not even the best.
It's not about handling email, it is that Opera just doesn't support
standard features. And before adding some super-new functions your
mail-cliend should handle the standard features.
Also the same with the Opera newsreader: If you have a newsreader that
requests a password but offers a small amound of newsgroups to users who
don't have an account then you need a clumsy workaround again for Opera.
>Opera has put a lot of work into improving their IMAP support.
But still missing standard functions.
>I'm not sure what you mean by line breaks in news articles, but Opera
>uses standard mime-formatted email, which has a standard line wrapping,
>but which affords a nicer email display on supported browsers.
Wrapping text after 72-80 signs is common and made by every other
newsreader.
>>I also like the Opera IRC best but here also essential Features like DCC
>>Send and Recieve are missing.
>
>Opera IRC most certainly does support IRC DCC.
...which is a major Feature since IRC nowadays only is used by leechers.
So in short: IRC, News, Mail, ... Opera has good potential but each of
these functions is very incomplete and missing standards, so that you
usually need some clumsy workaraounds to make it work.
Aaron W. Hsu
<rud...@temporaryforwarding.com> wrote:
> Aaron W. Hsu schrieb:
> It's not about handling email, it is that Opera just doesn't support
> standard features.
You're asking for a non-standard feature. Yes, IMAP folders are standard,
but how you treat those folders is not. Nothing in the IMAP standard says
anything about this. Additionally, you will note that Gmail is very
non-standard when it comes to IMAP, since it isn't following the standard
IMAP approach. It actually tries to do what Opera has done for a Webmail
interface. That is, Gmail labels things and then shows them via IMAP as
folders, which isn't the normal way IMAP is done. What you are asking for
is for Opera's paradigm to integrate better with some existing IMAP
service providers. That's all well and good, but it's not a standard
feature. You also trying to get Opera to integrate its spam filter with an
external one, again, these are not the low hanging fruit that Opera needed
to get right first; these are additional features that they rightly put
off for the moment while they worked on standard IMAP support. They did
need to do this, and they finally got to it. Now, we might see some other
new features coming in, but we'll just have to wait and see.
Again, Opera's paradigm is not the same as others, and IMAP folders
inherently conflict with Opera's single database philosophy, so it's not
surprising that this is the situation. Could it be improved? Yes. Is it as
bad as you seem to say? Not really, IMO.
>> Opera has put a lot of work into improving their IMAP support.
>
> But still missing standard functions.
You've not mentioned any *standard* support that is missing.
>> I'm not sure what you mean by line breaks in news articles, but Opera
>> uses standard mime-formatted email, which has a standard line wrapping,
>> but which affords a nicer email display on supported browsers.
>
> Wrapping text after 72-80 signs is common and made by every other
> newsreader.
Opera uses format flowed, which does indeed wrap the bodies of emails.
What email do you see that Opera is sending does not have the text wrapped
appropriately? Is this email wrapped incorrectly?
>>> I also like the Opera IRC best but here also essential Features like
>>> DCC
>>> Send and Recieve are missing.
>>
>> Opera IRC most certainly does support IRC DCC.
>
> ...which is a major Feature since IRC nowadays only is used by leechers.
You said that it was missing, it is not. Now you go on to claim that IRC
is only used by leechers and binary downloaders? Again, patently untrue.
> So in short: IRC, News, Mail, ... Opera has good potential but each of
> these functions is very incomplete and missing standards, so that you
> usually need some clumsy workaraounds to make it work.
Each of thse components is missing features that some might find useful.
It is also true that they are very servicable and have many features that
can't be found elsewhere. Opera's tools are good, and hardly what you call
"very incomplete."
Rudolf Harras
>> It's not about handling email, it is that Opera just doesn't support
>> standard features.
>
>You're asking for a non-standard feature.
Well, I think Alias-Mail-Adresses are standard now as well as
Autospam-Folders offered by your mailprovider (which is not Gmail in my
case).
Becky, Thunderbird, The Bat can handle them, so why not Opera?
>>> Opera has put a lot of work into improving their IMAP support.
>>
>> But still missing standard functions.
>
>You've not mentioned any *standard* support that is missing.
Ok then let's call it "standard mail functions".
>> Wrapping text after 72-80 signs is common and made by every other
>> newsreader.
>
>Opera uses format flowed, which does indeed wrap the bodies of emails.
>What email do you see that Opera is sending does not have the text wrapped
>appropriately? Is this email wrapped incorrectly?
In this mail it looks fine, so maybe they really improved it. I'll check
this again with the current version.
>>> Opera IRC most certainly does support IRC DCC.
>>
>> ...which is a major Feature since IRC nowadays only is used by leechers.
>
>You said that it was missing, it is not. Now you go on to claim that IRC
>is only used by leechers and binary downloaders? Again, patently untrue.
Hm, that was a missunderstanding. Maybe it's not missing but it's
incomplete again. Just try to go to a room and establish a connection by
typing "/ctcp username command". For example #southpark-episodes on
irc.tveps.org.
With Opera you don't even see most of the online triggers nor you can
establish any connection.
>> So in short: IRC, News, Mail, ... Opera has good potential but each of
>> these functions is very incomplete and missing standards, so that you
>> usually need some clumsy workaraounds to make it work.
>
>Each of thse components is missing features that some might find useful.
>It is also true that they are very servicable and have many features that
>can't be found elsewhere. Opera's tools are good, and hardly what you call
>"very incomplete."
But lacking the functionality of newsserver-authentication, alias
addresses etc. without workaround makes it very incomplete for me. None
of the features that really works so that you don't have to use another
piece of software. Even the browser... If you use Opera you have to use
a 2nd browser for the sites where Opera does not work. Unfortunately
they are not so many but often the more complex sites. :/ And also
Bittorrent: I don't know why but with µtorrent I get much faster
download rates and no, the Opera port is not blocked.
Don't get me wrong, I really like the browser. But Opera should release
a browser-only version until the other features really are 100%
functional.
Naruki Bigglesworth
> And also
> download rates and no, the Opera port is not blocked.
I hate Opera's bittorrent client. Loathe it. Wish they would throw it out because it's a hunk
of crap.
But that may just be me. I want the bells and whistles that come with �torrent, plus I want to
be able to close my browser without killing my torrent.
> Don't get me wrong, I really like the browser. But Opera should release
> a browser-only version until the other features really are 100%
> functional.
They really should have that option even if they ever got the other features matured.
Aaron W. Hsu
<Nar...@nothankyou.com> wrote:
> I hate Opera's bittorrent client. Loathe it. Wish they would throw it
> out because it's a hunk
> of crap.
For me, it's great, because I don't have to run another client while my
Opera session is up, it integrates with my normal stuff, and I don't have
to bother or mess with it. I don't really care about the extra features.
> But that may just be me. I want the bells and whistles that come with
> µtorrent, plus I want to
> be able to close my browser without killing my torrent.
I like the fact that they didn't try to have all the features. It's
definitely not for everyone, and it definitely has its pitfalls, but for
someone who needs a no-nonsense client that doesn't get in the way and is
simple to use, it's great. If you need more features, the other BitTorrent
clients are definitely more featureful.
Opera's client used to be a nightmare when it would crash your browser.
Since it does not do this for me anymore, I don't have any trouble with it.
Rudolf Harras
> I like the fact that they didn't try to have all the features.
It's not about the features. Also in ï¿œtorrent I just enter the link and
download the file - nothing more. But funnily in ï¿œtorrent it downloads
the file 5 times faster than in Opera. Don't know why.
> Opera's client used to be a nightmare when it would crash your browser.
> Since it does not do this for me anymore, I don't have any trouble with it.
I hardly have problems with crashes in Opera. Even if it does it
restarts with the same sites opened.
But however: Non of the additional featues is fully functional. The only
one I use is the IRC client because it is really comfortable, but as
soon as I need DCC/FTP I have to use something else. Plus: Opera should
use a monospaced font by default for IRC, Mail and News!!!
Rudolf Harras
>Opera Link seems to be quite nondeterministic in its workings.
I did not have any problems with the links yet, but I do not understand
how that thing with the search engines works.
Altough I enabled it I have still the same different search engines in
all my Opera versions on the Computer (three different Computers), but
on my phone I have all the search engnies from one to three times with
Opera Mini/Mobile.