Opera turmed into Shit
gar...@spamfree.com
I have always hated IE, and although I like Netscape, Netscape has
always been unstable. I tried a few other browsera and most of them
were incompatible with many webpages, or simply had no features at
all.
Opera was great. I liked all the features, it was stable, yet not
overbloated. Version 5.x was nearly perfect. Then came version 6.x.
I bagan to find it was bloated, slower than prior versions, and had
several bugs. The later 6.x versions got worse instead of better.
Then came version 7.x. It was supposed to be a big change, and be
much better..... WRONG. It became very unstable. It was so bloated
that I had to spend hours trying to learn the damn thing. The bottom
line, I hated it. I tried to go back to version 6.x, but somehow 7.x
had totally corrupted my ability to use an earlier version. I finally
removed every Opera directory, file, and used some special software to
remove all the garbage it stuffed into my windows directories. Then I
used regedit and removed every instance of Opera from my registry.
That was at least a year ago, (shortly after the first edition of ver.
7). I will never use Opera again, and I am posting this knowing some
Opera employee will most likely stumble across this message. Opera
was one of the best browsers ever made, and you people (at Opera)
ruined it. Sure, now that I got everything cleaned out of my
computer, I could probably reinstall version 5.x again, but why would
I want to use a dead end browser with no future. You people at Opera
should have stuck with the ORIGINAL Opera format, but instead you
killed it.
At this point, I have gone back to IE, and have found another browser
that's almost as good as the original Opera, and getting better every
upgrade. I just hope they dont go overboard and kill their browser
too.
Gary L.
Håvard Kvam Moen
> Opera was great. I liked all the features, it was stable, yet not
> overbloated. Version 5.x was nearly perfect. Then came version 6.x.
> I bagan to find it was bloated, slower than prior versions, and had
> several bugs. The later 6.x versions got worse instead of better.
I think your experience differs from most other people's.
> Then came version 7.x. It was supposed to be a big change, and be
> much better..... WRONG. It became very unstable. It was so bloated
> that I had to spend hours trying to learn the damn thing.
Well, except one thing... Opera 7.0 was actually smaller in size than
Opera 6.
> The bottom line, I hated it.
How come?
...
> I finally removed every Opera directory, file, and used some special
> software to remove all the garbage it stuffed into my windows
> directories.
Opera doesn't actually store anything in your Windows directory.
> That was at least a year ago, (shortly after the first edition of ver.
> 7). I will never use Opera again, and I am posting this knowing some
> Opera employee will most likely stumble across this message.
Certainly, but for what purpose? We see that more and more people
start using Opera, and the feedback is great. Unless you can be more
specific about your problems, your message doesn't really serve any
useful purpose.
> Opera was one of the best browsers ever made, and you people (at Opera)
> ruined it. Sure, now that I got everything cleaned out of my
> computer, I could probably reinstall version 5.x again, but why would
> I want to use a dead end browser with no future. You people at Opera
> should have stuck with the ORIGINAL Opera format, but instead you
> killed it.
I still don't quite understand what you think is so terrible about
more recent versions.
Richard Wakeford
Hash: SHA1
Hello Gary,
On Mon, 03 May 2004 you wrote in <mid:4mkb90ph1og05ruvj...@4ax.com>
gSc> That was at least a year ago, (shortly after the first edition of ver.
gSc> 7). I will never use Opera again, and I am posting this knowing some
gSc> Opera employee will most likely stumble across this message. Opera
gSc> was one of the best browsers ever made, and you people (at Opera)
gSc> ruined it.
Well that is just your personal opinion and I'd like to really know why.
OK, version 7 is a lot different to the earlier ones but, once you get
it set up to your own liking, it has so many benefits and I find it far
faster than IE.
OK, it's got mail and Newsreader stuff which I personally never use but
I love the wand which allows getting into password accessed pages such a
breeze. The bookmarks are great and I've got my toolbars set up so that
they take up a minute fraction at the top of the page. There are still
things I'm learning about it and, yes, there are things I don't like
about it too but I'm not even bothering to try these other Browsers that
are being touted as the bees knees because I'm happy with this one.
As it was a year ago that you last tried it (and yet strangely still
feel the compunction to write about it, like a lover who has been
spurned!) I unrge you to try the latest version 7.50b1 from
http://www.opera.com/download/?ver=7.50b1 as there are a very great
many improvements on the previous version 7.
gSc> You people at Opera should have stuck with the ORIGINAL Opera
gSc> format, but instead you killed it.
When version 7 first came out I could have agreed with your sentiments
(as did lots of others) because it was such a change to the Opera that
we all knew and were familiar with. All I can do is urge you to try and
learn the workings of the newest version. After a short time I feel you
will be pleasantly surprised even though it still has faults but show me
a programme that doesn't!
- --
Best regards,
Richard
| Using The Bat! 2.10.03 & SpamPal
| Windows XP (build 2600), version 5.1 Service Pack 1
| and the best browser: Opera 7.50
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Bill P.
<snip>
> At this point, I have gone back to IE, and have found another browser
> that's almost as good as the original Opera, and getting better every
> upgrade. I just hope they dont go overboard and kill their browser
> too.
>
> Gary L.
"I have gone back to IE"? - you're kidding right?
It's "getting better every upgrade" - did I miss some upgrades?
"hope they don't go overboard and kill their browser" - you mean actually
make an effort and add functionality like tabs (let alone security)?
So tell me true - are you a troll?
Using SUSE 9.0, KDE 3.2 & Opera 7.50 beta 1
Sebas
I understand that he decided to go back to IE (I really don't know how
he can find IE better and less bloated than any version of Opera) BUT
he has also found another browser (is it Firefox ?) that is almost as
good........
BTW, I have various versions of Opera installed in separated folders
(v5, v6.06, v7.23, v7.50) , and no-one is interacting with the others.
The only one that leaved somethg on windows' folder was 3.x, it was a
single opera.ini :-)
Regards,
Sebas
Brixomatic
[quite uninnovative Flamebait snipped]
> At this point, I have gone back to IE, and have found another browser
> that's almost as good as the original Opera
*wuhahahaha!*
YMMD.
-Wanja-
--
"Gewisse Schriftsteller sagen von ihren Werken immer: 'Mein Buch, mein
Kommentar, meine Geschichte'. [..] Es wäre besser, wenn sie sagten:
'unser Buch, unser Kommentar, unsere Geschichte'; wenn man bedenkt, dass
das Gute darin mehr von anderen ist als von ihnen." [Blaise Pascal]
Jarek Piórkowski
<haa...@opera-dot-com.invalid> wrote:
>> I finally removed every Opera directory, file, and used some special
>> software to remove all the garbage it stuffed into my windows
>> directories.
>
> Opera doesn't actually store anything in your Windows directory.
Hmmm, I don't mean to support him, but what about multi-user installations
on Windows 98? Wouldn't the profile go in windows\application data\...?
--
Jarek Piórkowski
http://www.operapl.net/ --- http://www.osiolki.net/
Robin Zalek
> On Mon, 03 May 2004 11:27:02 +0200, Håvard Kvam Moen
> <haa...@opera-dot-com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> I finally removed every Opera directory, file, and used some special
>>> software to remove all the garbage it stuffed into my windows
>>> directories.
>>
>> Opera doesn't actually store anything in your Windows directory.
>
> Hmmm, I don't mean to support him, but what about multi-user
> installations on Windows 98? Wouldn't the profile go in
> windows\application data\...?
>
windows\profiles\application date\ :P
IIRC...
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
gar...@spamfree.com
<sebas_sor...@invalid.com> wrote:
>Bill P. wrote in opera.general :
>
>>On Mon, 03 May 2004 00:28:26 -0500, <gar...@SPAMFREE.com> wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>> At this point, I have gone back to IE, and have found another browser
>>> that's almost as good as the original Opera, and getting better every
>>> upgrade. I just hope they dont go overboard and kill their browser
>>> too.
>>>
>>> Gary L.
>>
>>"I have gone back to IE"? - you're kidding right?
>>It's "getting better every upgrade" - did I miss some upgrades?
>>"hope they don't go overboard and kill their browser" - you mean actually
>>make an effort and add functionality like tabs (let alone security)?
>>So tell me true - are you a troll?
>
>I understand that he decided to go back to IE (I really don't know how
>he can find IE better and less bloated than any version of Opera) BUT
>he has also found another browser (is it Firefox ?) that is almost as
>good........
No, it's Avant Browser.
It's simple, the way a browser should be.
>
>BTW, I have various versions of Opera installed in separated folders
>(v5, v6.06, v7.23, v7.50) , and no-one is interacting with the others.
>The only one that leaved somethg on windows' folder was 3.x, it was a
>single opera.ini :-)
Yeah, I had the same thing, it became such a mess that I was glad to
dump all of it.
If you people like Opera, fine. But it's not for me. I was still
subscribed to this newsgroup, and I stated my opinion. I dont want a
browser that has so many features that I'll never learn it. Opera was
the slowest loading browser I ever tried, and the one thing I really
hated about Opera was that if I accidentally clicked the [X] in the
upper right corner, I'd lose every website I was viewing. Those of us
who used IE for years, are accustomed to closing a page that way (ONE
PAGE, not every frikkin page I got open).
I've stated my opinion. I have no intention to ever try Opera again.
I'm sure that by now they have added another hundred useless features
to slow it down even more and make it more complicated and harder to
use. Yes, I do like IE, and for one reason. It's quick, and its'
simple *(at least version 5.5, which is all I use).. The bad thing
about IE is that it can get hijacked, and has no popup blocking.
However, there are external pop blockers.
Enjoy your Opera, and I'll enjoy Avant.
>
>Regards,
>Sebas
Robin Zalek
Oh well.. here goes... (Worst. Idea. Ever.)
> and the one thing I really hated about Opera was that if I accidentally
> clicked the [X] in the upper right corner, I'd lose every website I was
> viewing. Those of us who used IE for years, are accustomed to closing
> a page that way (ONE PAGE, not every frikkin page I got open).
A look at the very first page of the options dialog shows an option
"Confirm Exit"
Is that really that hard to find?
Or you chould have chosen the option to "Prefer Separate Windows"
In the Windows --> Window Handling section of the preferences
Viva le choice!
And you assertion that Avant Browser was a simple alternative...
Sure as hell wasn't last time I looked.. a base IE is simple
a base Firefox is simple
Avant browser comes loaded with useful features..
And I bet you haven't found all of them.
--
If you need the email... you know what to do.
Andrew Gregory
> No, it's Avant Browser.
Oh. Still with IE then?
> the one thing I really
> hated about Opera was that if I accidentally clicked the [X] in the
> upper right corner, I'd lose every website I was viewing. Those of us
> who used IE for years, are accustomed to closing a page that way (ONE
> PAGE, not every frikkin page I got open).
Someone else has already pointed out the "confirm exit" checkbox on the
very first lot of preferences. I'll also point out the "continue from last
time" option on the same dialog page - something no other browser has,
AFAIK.
Are you *sure* you've used Opera?
--
Andrew "Puzzled" Gregory
<URL: http://www.scss.com.au/family/andrew/ >
Erik Jälevik
news:376767130.20...@cix.co.uk...
>As it was a year ago that you last tried it (and yet strangely
>still feel the compunction to write about it, like a lover who
>has been spurned!) I unrge you to try the latest version 7.50b1
>from http://www.opera.com/download/?ver=7.50b1 as there are a
>very great many improvements on the previous version 7.
Will the nicknames work in this build?
I had a similar experience in terms of earlier versions working better and
being an avid Opera fan. But on installing v7.21, the nicknames feature
stopped working.
I have lots of bookmarks set up with nicknames so I can just hit z for
Amazon or s to get to my university home page etc etc. It's one of the best
features of Opera and it's stopped working. :(
Erik
gar...@spamfree.com
<and...@scss.com.au.no.spam> wrote:
>On Mon, 03 May 2004 22:49:15 -0500, <gar...@SPAMFREE.com> wrote:
>
>> No, it's Avant Browser.
>
>Oh. Still with IE then?
Yes, I still use IE quite often too. Sometimes I have both IE and
Avant going at the same time, and that works fine.
>> the one thing I really
>> hated about Opera was that if I accidentally clicked the [X] in the
>> upper right corner, I'd lose every website I was viewing. Those of us
>> who used IE for years, are accustomed to closing a page that way (ONE
>> PAGE, not every frikkin page I got open).
>
>Someone else has already pointed out the "confirm exit" checkbox on the
>very first lot of preferences. I'll also point out the "continue from last
>time" option on the same dialog page - something no other browser has,
>AFAIK.
Wrong !!!!! Avant has the same feature, I just opened it, and it
brought up the last 4 webpages I was viewing last night when I got too
tired to finish reading them. Avant also has the sense to ask me if I
want to exit all windows, save these pages (as I just mentioned), and
I dont have to set anything. It's all automatic.
>
>Are you *sure* you've used Opera?
Damn sure, and damn glad I dont anymore.
Like I said, it was one fine browser, till they made that nasty
version 7, and ruined the whole thing. I tried to get my (still
installed) earlier version to work, but ver. 7 screwed them all up.
Avant is much like the earlier versions of Opera, except faster, and
with fewer things that need to be set. Yet, there are features, and if
I would want some of those useless things made for 8 year old kids,
like SKINS, they are available too. Why anyone wants that sort of
crap, I will never know, but as long as I dont have to set or change
anything, I am happy. In my opinion, a web broswer should be made to
be used, not made to have to spend all of ones time changing settings
in the damn thing. Thats the best part of Avant, I can disable/enable
javascript, flash, sounds, animations, popup blocker, activeX, etc.,
all from the menu bar. Unlike IE that forces one to go thru the whole
setup process to do these things, and is one of my main gripes about
IE.
Bill P.
silly me I can do the same with Opera (custom buttons are available)
But the bestest thing about Opera is it runs on platforms other than
Windows
And the worst thing about Avant may be that it comes with the same
security features that are in IE (since its an add-on). You have read
about security in IE haven't you?
--
Geoff Morris
> On Tue, 04 May 2004 15:04:03 +0800, Andrew Gregory
> <and...@scss.com.au.no.spam> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 03 May 2004 22:49:15 -0500, <gar...@SPAMFREE.com> wrote:
>>
>>> No, it's Avant Browser.
>>
>> Oh. Still with IE then?
>
> Yes, I still use IE quite often too. Sometimes I have both IE and
> Avant going at the same time, and that works fine.
No - Andrew's point was: Avant *IS* IE! It is just a different UI (skin)
for it.
--
Geoff
Sorry about the munged address, too many viruses out there...
Howard Brazee
On 3-May-2004, gar...@SPAMFREE.com wrote:
> >I understand that he decided to go back to IE (I really don't know how
> >he can find IE better and less bloated than any version of Opera) BUT
> >he has also found another browser (is it Firefox ?) that is almost as
> >good........
>
> No, it's Avant Browser.
> It's simple, the way a browser should be.
It could be. But so far the only mention I have seen about this browser is
from someone who prefers IE to Opera (and finds it less bloated). Which leads
me to discard whatever else you said as not being relevant to me.
Lasse Reichstein Nielsen
> No - Andrew's point was: Avant *IS* IE! It is just a different UI
> (skin) for it.
I'll have to disagree on that. That would be saying that Netscape 7.1
and Mozilla FireFox is the same browser. They are not. They have the
same rendering component, just as IE and Avant has the same rendering
component, but that does not make them the same browser.
Trust me, I still wouldn't use IE if it came with Opera's rendering
component, because it would still be an awful browser (although with
better standards support :).
I have reasons for preferring Opera to the other browsers I have
tried. Some of those reasons would probably be satisfied by, e.g.,
Avant or MyIE, but other of my requirements are not satisfied by the
MS HTML component. If other people have other requirements, I can
understand them settling for a browser based on MS HTML.
/L
--
Lasse Reichstein Nielsen - l...@hotpop.com
DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleDOM.html>
'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'
Ted S.
news:sq3e905672v0tpn7u...@4ax.com:
> No, it's Avant Browser.
> It's simple, the way a browser should be.
I thought Avant wasn't a browser, but a front end for IE.
--
Ted <fedya at bestweb dot net>
The way I see it, you raised three children who could knock out and hog-
tie a perfect stranger, you must be doing *something* right.
Marge Simpson, <http://www.snpp.com/episodes/7G01.html>
Rainer Müller
> On Mon, 03 May 2004 16:21:24 -0400, Jarek Piórkowski <m...@qviri.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 03 May 2004 11:27:02 +0200, Håvard Kvam Moen
>> <haa...@opera-dot-com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> I finally removed every Opera directory, file, and used some special
>>>> software to remove all the garbage it stuffed into my windows
>>>> directories.
>>>
>>>
>>> Opera doesn't actually store anything in your Windows directory.
>>
>>
>> Hmmm, I don't mean to support him, but what about multi-user
>> installations on Windows 98? Wouldn't the profile go in
>> windows\application data\...?
>>
>
> windows\profiles\application date\ :P
> IIRC...
>
"C:\Windows\Profiles\UserName\Application Data" was it.
:-)
Rainer
Dierk Haasis
>Damn sure, and damn glad I dont anymore.
>Like I said, it was one fine browser, till they made that nasty
>version 7, and ruined the whole thing. I tried to get my (still
>installed) earlier version to work, but ver. 7 screwed them all up.
Apart from a lot of nonsense you are writing - but that's alright with
me, if you like to have everything on autopilot rather than decide for
yourself - it's your language that just ... doesn't make it.
You don't need to be an advocate of political correctness or similar
idiotic schemes to refrain from too many exclamation marks and
swearwords. Usually a more temperate, considerate language makes your
argument more persuasive, people actually listen to you (right, here
it should be "read you").
BTW, when did it become a fad to deride a program just because one
found another that suits one's needs more? I usually just ask politely
if the developers want to add a feature or improve upon it when I find
it lacking. If they don't want to, I just change horses - that is,
applications.
--
Dierk
gar...@spamfree.com
wrote:
You must be a very close minded person. Kind of like our current US
President. Glad I dont know you !!!
I stated my opinion, was not trying to start a war. If everyone did
everything the same, this would be a very boring world.
And, Avant *IS* a browser, not an extension or "skin" for IE.
However, I do know it requires some portions of IE to function, but
without knowing all the technical stuff, I will mention that I used
IEexterminate on a test setup of Windows on a spare computer. (a
download that removes IE). Then I ran Avant and it worked fine.
Ans just for knowledge, I installed Mozilla awhile back. It found it
surely does run on the same platform as Netscape. It crashed every
hour or so, just like every version of Netscape I have ever used.
Which is the reason I avoid Netscape.
Personally, if I had to choose a browser based on features and
appearance, it would be Netscape. It was the first browser I ever
used, way back when the internet was first getting popular, and I was
running Win3.x on a 386 computer. I probably used just about every
version of it on several computers and OS's and it was always crash
prone. Mozilla looked pretty decent, but when it started crashing, it
went into the trash. IE crashes once and awhile, Avant crashes once
in awhile, Netscape and Mozilla crash regularly, it's almost expected.
Who needs that....
Opera 4 thru 6 was pretty stable, (probably crashed less than IE).
Opera 7 was darn near as unstable as Netscape, and crashed quite
often. It was running on Win98SE, on a Pentium 166 w/ 64 megs ram.
(All software can crash once and awhile, but anything that crashes
regularly does not stay on my computer. However, many years ago,
Netscape was the ONLY browser, and we all had to learn to live with
this unstable beast. IE was a very welcome thing when Win95 came to
be).
Gary
Bill P.
> On Tue, 4 May 2004 13:21:28 GMT, "Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 3-May-2004, gar...@SPAMFREE.com wrote:
>>
>>> >I understand that he decided to go back to IE (I really don't know how
>>> >he can find IE better and less bloated than any version of Opera) BUT
>>> >he has also found another browser (is it Firefox ?) that is almost as
>>> >good........
>>>
>>> No, it's Avant Browser.
>>> It's simple, the way a browser should be.
>>
>> It could be. But so far the only mention I have seen about this
>> browser is
>> from someone who prefers IE to Opera (and finds it less bloated).
>> Which leads
>> me to discard whatever else you said as not being relevant to me.
>
>
> You must be a very close minded person. Kind of like our current US
> President. Glad I dont know you !!!
>
> I stated my opinion, was not trying to start a war. If everyone did
> everything the same, this would be a very boring world.
>
> And, Avant *IS* a browser, not an extension or "skin" for IE.
> However, I do know it requires some portions of IE to function, but
> without knowing all the technical stuff, I will mention that I used
> IEexterminate on a test setup of Windows on a spare computer. (a
> download that removes IE). Then I ran Avant and it worked fine.
<snip>
You're wrong and if you read the Avant faq you'd know that you couldn't
remove IE and run Avant because it's a requirement. Facts is Facts
And I quote:
--What is the system requirements for Avant Browser?
--You will need a Pentium 166 PC or higher, 16MB RAM or more. The
operating system should be Windows 95, Windows NT, --Windows 98, Windows
2000, Windows ME or Windows XP. For Windows 95 systems, IE 5.5 or higher
version should be --installed. For Windows NT systems, Service Pack 6 and
IE 5.5 should be installed, and IE 6.0 are recommended
Do really think a dl less than a meg can do all that by itself?
--
Jonathan A.
> I stated my opinion, was not trying to start a war.
Maybe not... but picture this: I stroll over to rec.pets.cats and
say, "Cats SUCK! They spit up hairballs all over, stink up the house
with their filthy litter boxes, yadda, yadda, yadda. How can you stand
them?!?!" What do you think I'm going to get?
In effect, that's what you did here. You must realize that kind of
stuff starts flame wars, no? Hell, you're getting off light. Be
glad you're in one of the better neighborhoods of Usenet. :P
My $0.02,
Jonathan
--
Don't just hit reply. Email address is broken. Thank
your friendly neighborhood spammer. Email replies to:
user: jnthn1 domain: earthlink<dot>net
Robin Zalek
<googl...@xxxhotmailxxx.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 04 May 2004 14:34:04 -0500, <gar...@SPAMFREE.com> wrote:
>
>> However, I do know it requires some portions of IE to function, but
>> without knowing all the technical stuff, I will mention that I used
>> IEexterminate on a test setup of Windows on a spare computer. (a
>> download that removes IE). Then I ran Avant and it worked fine.
> <snip>
>
> You're wrong and if you read the Avant faq you'd know that you couldn't
> remove IE and run Avant because it's a requirement. Facts is Facts
Actually the IE uninstallers I've seen only remove the iexplore.exe
Part and it's components.
shdocvw.dll (I Think) is the rendering engine, and is used by far too many
things to ever be removed from a windows install
So this part at least.. is probably accurate.
gar...@spamfree.com
<googl...@xxxhotmailxxx.com> wrote:
Well, I did it. I'd prove it to you if I could, but you are probably
hundreds of miles away. However, if you got a spare computer, install
W98SE, go to
http://pad.olsonnetwork.com/LinkLibrary/cd1_Utilities.html
Download IERADICATE (sorry I gave the wrong filename earlier)
Run this file to remove IE from your computer.
Install Avant, and it WILL work.
I did find that IEradicate removed the IE browser, but there is still
the part of IE that is built into Windows. Apparently that part is
non-removable. (I'm not geeky enough to know all the details, nor do I
really care, as long as it works).
Go ahead and try it !!!!
Note: This all happened by accident, because I installed IE6.x, found
it to be a pain in the butt, and used IEradicate to get rid of it, and
go back to IE 5.5. I had to download something during all of this,
and installed Avant.
Lasse Reichstein Nielsen
> You're wrong and if you read the Avant faq you'd know that you
> couldn't remove IE and run Avant because it's a requirement. Facts is
> Facts
Is that a fact? :)
Ok, to be exact: Avant doesn't require IE. It requires the Microsoft
HTML component, which is also used by IE to render web pages.
Avant is not just a skin for IE. It might be "just a skin" for the
HTML component, but then so is IE. To me, that makes Avant just
as much a browser as IE is, and probably a lot better. Sadly, it
also suffers from all the problems inherent in the HTML component,
which is one reason I won't use it.
Bill P.
Be difficult in Linux
And I once again point out that according to their faq:
What is Avant Browser?
Avant Browser can be best described as a custom web browser application.
Avant Browser is a standalone application designed to expand services
provided by Microsoft Internet Explorer.
AND:
Is Avant Browser a secure browser?
Yes, Avant Browser is secure. Since it's based on Internet Explorer, Avant
Browser is as secure as Internet Explorer. Avant Browser supports all SSL
secured websites. Avant Browser's encryption length is the same as
Internet Explorer's.
-- Please if IE in a seive and Avant is based on it how can it be secure,
check the tech news for the latest worm and virus atrracks on IE
And remember if it works for you and you're satisfied then go for it
Bill P.
<l...@hotpop.com> wrote:
> "Bill P." <googl...@xxxhotmailxxx.com> writes:
>
>> You're wrong and if you read the Avant faq you'd know that you
>> couldn't remove IE and run Avant because it's a requirement. Facts is
>> Facts
>
> Is that a fact? :)
>
> Ok, to be exact: Avant doesn't require IE. It requires the Microsoft
> HTML component, which is also used by IE to render web pages.
>
> Avant is not just a skin for IE. It might be "just a skin" for the
> HTML component, but then so is IE. To me, that makes Avant just
> as much a browser as IE is, and probably a lot better. Sadly, it
> also suffers from all the problems inherent in the HTML component,
> which is one reason I won't use it.
>
> /L
If you want to convince me show me on their web site.
I say it must contain more since they say in their faq that they use IE
secuity which sounds diff. then just using the HTML component and I quote:
"Is Avant Browser a secure browser?
Yes, Avant Browser is secure. Since it's based on Internet Explorer, Avant
Browser is as secure as Internet Explorer."
And yes I could be mistaken but its how I interpret their site.
Bill P.
<l...@hotpop.com> wrote:
> "Bill P." <googl...@xxxhotmailxxx.com> writes:
>
>> You're wrong and if you read the Avant faq you'd know that you
>> couldn't remove IE and run Avant because it's a requirement. Facts is
>> Facts
>
> Is that a fact? :)
>
> Ok, to be exact: Avant doesn't require IE. It requires the Microsoft
> HTML component, which is also used by IE to render web pages.
>
> Avant is not just a skin for IE. It might be "just a skin" for the
> HTML component, but then so is IE. To me, that makes Avant just
> as much a browser as IE is, and probably a lot better. Sadly, it
> also suffers from all the problems inherent in the HTML component,
> which is one reason I won't use it.
>
> /L
If you want to convince me show me on their web site.
I say it must contain more since they say in their faq that they use IE
secuity which sounds diff. then just using the HTML component and I quote:
"Is Avant Browser a secure browser?
Yes, Avant Browser is secure. Since it's based on Internet Explorer, Avant
Browser is as secure as Internet Explorer."
And yes I could be mistaken but its how I interpret their site.
--
Ted Wishart
>Personally, if I had to choose a browser based on features and
>appearance, it would be Netscape. It was the first browser I ever
>used, way back when the internet was first getting popular, and I was
>running Win3.x on a 386 computer. I probably used just about every
>version of it on several computers and OS's and it was always crash
>prone. Mozilla looked pretty decent, but when it started crashing, it
>went into the trash. IE crashes once and awhile, Avant crashes once
>in awhile, Netscape and Mozilla crash regularly, it's almost expected.
>Who needs that....
>
>Opera 4 thru 6 was pretty stable, (probably crashed less than IE).
>Opera 7 was darn near as unstable as Netscape, and crashed quite
>often. It was running on Win98SE, on a Pentium 166 w/ 64 megs ram.
>
>(All software can crash once and awhile, but anything that crashes
>regularly does not stay on my computer. However, many years ago,
>Netscape was the ONLY browser, and we all had to learn to live with
>this unstable beast. IE was a very welcome thing when Win95 came to
>be).
Your computer must be very unstable being as crash prone as you have
indicated. You wouldn't be able to test or judge any software fairly.
My operating system is Win XP Pro and I'm using Opera 7.51b1 {Build
3733} as my primary browser, Mozilla Firefox 8 as a backup and only
use IE 6 when I want to go to Windows Update.
I can't remember any versions of the 3 browsers ever crashing on my
computers.
--
Ted
Andrew Gregory
> Yes, I still use IE quite often too. Sometimes I have both IE and
> Avant going at the same time, and that works fine.
When you're using Avant, you're using IE! Same bugs, same security holes!
>> Someone else has already pointed out the "confirm exit" checkbox on the
>> very first lot of preferences. I'll also point out the "continue from
>> last
>> time" option on the same dialog page - something no other browser has,
>> AFAIK.
>
> Wrong !!!!!
Well, I did say "AFAIK" (As Far As I Know).
> Avant has the same feature, I just opened it, and it
> brought up the last 4 webpages I was viewing last night when I got too
> tired to finish reading them. Avant also has the sense to ask me if I
> want to exit all windows, save these pages (as I just mentioned), and
> I dont have to set anything. It's all automatic.
So, what you're saying is you can't be bothered to click two checkboxes?
You're panning Opera because you can't click two checkboxes ... sheesh!
Does Avant wipe your arse for you too?
>> Are you *sure* you've used Opera?
>
> Damn sure, and damn glad I dont anymore.
> Like I said, it was one fine browser, till they made that nasty
> version 7, and ruined the whole thing. I tried to get my (still
> installed) earlier version to work, but ver. 7 screwed them all up.
I've had many different browsers (multiple versions of Opera, Mozilla,
even IE) all installed on the same computer. No problems whatsoever. Your
problems must be "operator error".
> In my opinion, a web broswer should be made to
> be used, not made to have to spend all of ones time changing settings
> in the damn thing.
So you don't like Opera because it's defaults don't correspond to your own
personal preferences? Are you seriously that self-centered and naive?
Preferences are there for you to set *your* preferences! There's no way
Opera Software can read your mind and figure out what *your* preferences
are. You have to get up off your fat hairy butt and set them yourself!
If you can't click a couple of checkboxes ... whose fault is that?
> Thats the best part of Avant, I can disable/enable
> javascript, flash, sounds, animations, popup blocker, activeX, etc.,
> all from the menu bar.
Yeah, F12 *click* is sooooo hard! That is, if you can't be bothered
dragging those options to a toolbar yourself.
I guess there's no pleasing some people. Sometimes, customers are just not
worth having.
--
Andrew Gregory
<URL: http://www.scss.com.au/family/andrew/ >
joe
"Ted Wishart" <tedwishart@no_email.com> wrote in message
news:knhg9097ce69r235l...@4ax.com...
Version 7.23
Build 3227
Platform Win32
System Windows ME
Java Sun Java Runtime Environment version 1.4
I do tend to agree that Opera has taken a slight LEFT turn headed towards
Event Horizon. It is, however, better than I.E. and *almost* as good as
Firefox. What do you expect when you get to use it for free? Firefox seems
to me to difficult to customize with one have to edit config files and all
that. And on my computer Opera sometimes takes at least a minute to start
up and I still haven't figured out why. I think it has something to do with
the PPPoE DSL thingy...never did this when I just used dial-up.
Why is out current U.S. President close-minded?...because he believes
marriage is between a man and a woman..or he believes that a fetus is a
person and shouldn't be killed..or he is a Christian and believes that the
God of Jehovah is the one true God and his Creator. or that he make take
the opposite view of other politically correct ideas.
That's my four cents.. Sorry for going off on a wild tangent.
Bunyip
i dont know why dumb arses like this bother coming into Opera to
complain about it and say they will never use it again, i wish they
would just fade away,because bad end users like this will only give
Opera a bad name,they are dumb,lazy,and pathetic.
gar...@spamfree.com
>On Tue, 04 May 2004 14:34:04 -0500, gar...@SPAMFREE.com
><gar...@SPAMFREE.com> appears to have said:
>
>> I stated my opinion, was not trying to start a war.
>
>Maybe not... but picture this: I stroll over to rec.pets.cats and
>say, "Cats SUCK! They spit up hairballs all over, stink up the house
>with their filthy litter boxes, yadda, yadda, yadda. How can you stand
>them?!?!" What do you think I'm going to get?
>
>In effect, that's what you did here. You must realize that kind of
>stuff starts flame wars, no? Hell, you're getting off light. Be
>glad you're in one of the better neighborhoods of Usenet. :P
>
>My $0.02,
>Jonathan
I do understand what you are saying, but if everyone agreed with what
the president does, we wouldn't even need elections, and the president
could make the decision to destroy everyone, or force everyone to
leave the internet, or whatever, and if no one complained, things
could get real bad. This is not as serious as that, but I was real
happy with Opera, then they came out with ver. 7.x and I hate it. I
do believe that people from Opera read this NG, and I hope they read
this thread. I know they ar not going to change it for me, but at
least I spoke my mind. If many people hated it, and began
complaining, maybe they would change it. That's one of the problems
today, not enough people take the time to complain about bad products,
so we're stuck with bad products. I strongly dislike certain vehicle
manufacturers too, but very much like another, even though I have some
complaints about them too. For example, my car has cheap plastic door
handles, and every one of them has broken at least once. Most people
will just dish out the money and keep replacing them with more cheap
handles, that will soon break again. When the first one broke, I just
replaced it. When the second one broke, I griped to the mechanic, who
told me this is a common problem on my model car. When the 3rd one
broke, I contacted the manufacturer and raised hell. I just hope
enough others complain, and they make better handles on new cars, and
maybe even make a durable replacement.
Well, that's my 2cents
Gary
Rijk van Geijtenbeek
..
> .. That's one of the problems
> today, not enough people take the time to complain about bad products,
> so we're stuck with bad products.
People have complained forcefully and repeatedly about many of the issues
caused by the redesign of Opera 7 (and now again of Opera 7.5). Many of
the issues raised have been solved, and the freqency of complaints in
newsgroups and forums plays a important role. Clear posts about specific
issues generally get better response of course, for obvious reasons. You
are getting a long thread now, because you are not only using foul
language, but also complain (later) about specific issues. That makes it
much easier to see what is bothering people and how Opera can be improved.
All in all, I think there is very little in Opera 7.23 and especially 7.5
that is less efficient/easy-to-use/etc compared to Opera 5 and 6. It has
gotten bigger and in some cases a little slower, inevitable side-effects
of the necessary support for Unicode in Opera 6 and DOM in Opera 7.
--
The Web is a procrastination apparatus: | Rijk van Geijtenbeek
It can absorb as much time as | Documentation & QA
is required to ensure that you | Opera Software ASA
won't get any real work done. - J.Nielsen | mailto:ri...@opera.com N
Lasse Reichstein Nielsen
> If you want to convince me show me on their web site.
The closest I can get is:
---
Avant Browser can be best described as a custom web browser
application. Avant Browser is a standalone application designed to
expand services provided by Microsoft Internet Explorer.
---
and
---
Based on services provided by Microsoft Internet Explorer, Avant
Browser renders and navigates HTML.
---
They call it a web browser, standalone and only expanding on services
provided by IE, not on IE itself.
Remember that their web site is their advertising, and it is kept
non-technical. They won't say anything about "HTML components" (and
probably also some other components that cooperate with it).
However, there are other browsers using the same setup - a new
application using the MS HTML component. One is MyIE2. They have
support for an alternative HTML component DLL file that uses the
Gecko engine istead of the MS engine. I.e., the renderer really
is a separate, replacable, component.
<URL: http://www.iol.ie/~locka/mozilla/mozilla.htm >
What I hope we can agree on is: In Avant, anything that happens inside
the document view, with the HTMl document, is using the same code as
IE. The rest, all the interface, is completely separate from IE.
To me, that is enough to call it a separate browser (with a just as
sucky HTML rendering :). Just like I consider Galleon, KMeleon and
Moz FireFox different browsers, even though they show pages the
same way.
Howard Brazee
but what they/we really don't like is that he/they doesn't/don't believe what
the criticizing person believes.
Peter Boulding
Not a fair comparison, given that the software writers we're
talking about here are those who produce Opera. [1] Admittedly
the vast majority of the world's population didn't choose either
Opera or the current President of the United States, but they
don't feel that the world would be a far safer place if Opera
didn't exist.
--
Regards Peter Boulding
p...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk (to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal gallery: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/
Fractal music: http://www.pjbmusic2.freeserve.co.uk/
[1] The comparison would, of course, be more realistic if we were
talking about Windows...
Bill P.
I actually wrote a long follow up but I think this threads gone on way too
long - we're talking symantics because we're seeing things through diff.
frames of reference.
I think using Avant gives a much better browsing experience than IE. Is it
better than Opera - don't know. Does it work for you? Then that's good.
/B
gar...@spamfree.com
<ri...@opera.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 05 May 2004 08:25:18 -0500, <gar...@SPAMFREE.com> wrote:
>
>..
>> .. That's one of the problems
>> today, not enough people take the time to complain about bad products,
>> so we're stuck with bad products.
>
>People have complained forcefully and repeatedly about many of the issues
>caused by the redesign of Opera 7 (and now again of Opera 7.5). Many of
>the issues raised have been solved, and the freqency of complaints in
>newsgroups and forums plays a important role. Clear posts about specific
>issues generally get better response of course, for obvious reasons. You
>are getting a long thread now, because you are not only using foul
>language, but also complain (later) about specific issues. That makes it
>much easier to see what is bothering people and how Opera can be improved.
>
>All in all, I think there is very little in Opera 7.23 and especially 7.5
>that is less efficient/easy-to-use/etc compared to Opera 5 and 6. It has
>gotten bigger and in some cases a little slower, inevitable side-effects
>of the necessary support for Unicode in Opera 6 and DOM in Opera 7.
"Little" slower is putting it very mildly. Opera always bragged about
being the fastest browser. I could never see that even in the earlier
versions. It always seemed to take too long to load. But ver. 7.x
took so long to load I could almost cook dinner and take a shower
while it loaded. If nothing else drove me away, it was that slow
loading. I will admit, even avant takes longer than I'd like, but I
guess that's part of a more complex browser. That's the main reason I
still use IE if I just want to quickly check out a link that someone
posts or emails to me. If I am doing serious web browsing, then I use
Avant.
Unless you consider the word SHIT foul language, I dont recall using
any. I thought the seven dirty words used by George Carlin became
mainstream words in the 60's. (except for Catholics of course).
Just be glad I didnt use the 4 letter "F-word". By the way, is that
word is FORD, or is it FORK? I guess that depends on what you drive
and whether you are dieting or not.
PS. What are the system requirements for the latest Opera?
(computer speed, amount of ram. OS, etc)?
Gary
Matthew Winn
> Admittedly
> the vast majority of the world's population didn't choose either
> Opera or the current President of the United States, but they
> don't feel that the world would be a far safer place if Opera
> didn't exist.
I bet Microsoft feels the world would be a safer place -- for them,
at least -- if Opera didn't exist.
--
Matthew Winn
[If replying by email remove the "r" from "urk"]
Ted S.
> "Little" slower is putting it very mildly. Opera always bragged about
> being the fastest browser. I could never see that even in the earlier
> versions. It always seemed to take too long to load. But ver. 7.x
> took so long to load I could almost cook dinner and take a shower
> while it loaded. If nothing else drove me away, it was that slow
> loading. I will admit, even avant takes longer than I'd like, but I
> guess that's part of a more complex browser. That's the main reason I
> still use IE if I just want to quickly check out a link that someone
> posts or emails to me. If I am doing serious web browsing, then I use
> Avant.
[...]
> PS. What are the system requirements for the latest Opera?
> (computer speed, amount of ram. OS, etc)?
I've got a Windows 98SE computer with only 64MB of RAM. And I have
almost no problems with 7.21 (I haven't tried 7.5 yet). It opens in 15-20
seconds, and the only time it slows down is if a page in the background is
loading a bunch of pictures.
The tech types can correct me on this, but doesn't IE open faster because
part of it is front-loaded (and constantly uses memory) when the OS is
started? If you really want to talk about cooking dinner and taking a
shower while waiting for something to load, you ought to be talking about
loading a Windows OS. :-)
Geoff Morris
> i dont know why dumb arses like this bother coming into Opera to
> complain about it and say they will never use it again, i wish they
> would just fade away,because bad end users like this will only give
> Opera a bad name,they are dumb,lazy,and pathetic.
Given the current rash of trolls at the moment, I'm almost tempted to
think "conspiracy"... ;-)
Maybe there was an article about Opera in a Microsoft-employee circular or
something.
--
Geoff
Sorry about the munged address, too many viruses out there...
Peter Boulding
wrote:
>I've got a Windows 98SE computer with only 64MB of RAM. And I have
>almost no problems with 7.21 (I haven't tried 7.5 yet). It opens in 15-20
>seconds, and the only time it slows down is if a page in the background is
>loading a bunch of pictures.
>
>The tech types can correct me on this, but doesn't IE open faster because
>part of it is front-loaded (and constantly uses memory) when the OS is
>started? If you really want to talk about cooking dinner and taking a
>shower while waiting for something to load, you ought to be talking about
>loading a Windows OS. :-)
True - not only of IE, but also MS Office (if you've done a
default install).
If you want Opera to behave much the same way, set it to start
minimised with no open windows and then add it to your autobooted
programs.
T. Fink
>
> I thought Avant wasn't a browser, but a front end for IE.
>
That's what the PC magazine in front of me says in their review...
Mike Mitchell
<haa...@opera-dot-com.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 03 May 2004 00:28:26 -0500, gar...@SPAMFREE.com wrote:
>
>> Opera was great. I liked all the features, it was stable, yet not
>> overbloated. Version 5.x was nearly perfect. Then came version 6.x.
>> I bagan to find it was bloated, slower than prior versions, and had
>> several bugs. The later 6.x versions got worse instead of better.
>
>I think your experience differs from most other people's.
Hey, not mine! He pretty much described what has happened to me since
I moved from 5 to 6 and now to 7. Crashes started happening under 6
and they appear to be *more* frequent under 7. Nothing else crashes on
my computer, only Opera 7.23. I emailed numerous dumps to Opera,
having obtained a bug number. But they never acknowledged any of them,
and their web site now offers the 7.5 version as a "beta" download!
Yeah, like I'd try a beta, when the last full release is flaky!
MM
Mike Mitchell
<rwak...@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>...... but show me
>a programme that doesn't!
Including invalid page faults?
Wanna see 'em?
OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
017f:00603663.
OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
017f:00603663.
OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
017f:00603663.
OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module KERNEL32.DLL at
017f:bff7b9f6.
OPERA caused an exception 10H in module ES262-32.DLL at 017f:67fb9a04
OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
017f:00603663.
OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
017f:00603663.
OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
017f:00603663.
OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
017f:00603663.
It can happen on any web page, at any time. No other program does
this.
MM
Mike Mitchell
>Avant is much like the earlier versions of Opera, except faster, and
>with fewer things that need to be set. Yet, there are features, and if
>I would want some of those useless things made for 8 year old kids,
>like SKINS, they are available too. Why anyone wants that sort of
>crap, I will never know,
Totally agree. I've only been using 7.23 for a few weeks and the first
thing I noticed was the wand! Flipping heck, are they now going to
pump it full of gimmicks like another piece of Microsoft bloatware? I
agree, too, about the skins. What the heck do I care what the ruddy
skin looks like? It's a browser, for Christ's sake, not a work of art!
I'm going to look at Avant right now and see whether it will do. I,
too, hate gimmicks. I just want a damn browser that doesn't crash and
isn't Microsoft. I'm losing patience with Opera, sorry.
MM
gar...@spamfree.com
I think you'll like Avant. I am using Version 9.01, build 118. There
is a newer beta, but I like to avoid betas in all software. (Unless
there is now a final ver.). I dont change software everytime
something new comes out. That is the one thing I dislike about Avant,
every week or so, it pops up saying there is a new version, and asks
if i want do download it now or later. I sure wish they'd kill that
thing. Maybe there is a setting for shutting it off, I never looked.
When I find software that works, I stick with it. For one thing I
dislike having to relearn over and over. Like you said, it's a
browser, not a work of art.
I also agree with what you said in another message. Opera 5 was
stable, 6 started to become unstable, and 7 was crash city. The same
thing about the bloating. Just like MS did to MS Word. I wont even
touch the newer versions of Word. Way too many features. I got one
from 96 or 97 installed.
Avant has only crashed once for me and that was when I had Avant
loaded and started IE at the same time, and IE crashed and took Avant
down with it. Other programs began acting oddly after that too. It
was reboot time..... I have run Avant and IE together many other
times without prolems. The one thing that I have found with Avant and
IE (both), is to keep the cache to a minimum. (I believe I have it
set to 2 megs now). That seems to help with both stability and speed.
PS. I am using Win98SE.
Good Luck
Gary
Richard Grevers
wrote:
> Hey, not mine! He pretty much described what has happened to me since
> I moved from 5 to 6 and now to 7. Crashes started happening under 6
> and they appear to be *more* frequent under 7. Nothing else crashes on
> my computer, only Opera 7.23. I emailed numerous dumps to Opera,
> having obtained a bug number. But they never acknowledged any of them,
> and their web site now offers the 7.5 version as a "beta" download!
>
Well, there was one version of Opera 7 (7.11) which was IMO the least
stable Opera version ever. So I started using 7.2 betas immediately, and
they were extremely stable. Ditto 7.5.
In fact we're coming up to the first anniversary of the last time Opera
crashed in day to day running. (And opera is often runnign for a week at a
time, giving it plenty of chance to develop leaks etc.)
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Robin Zalek
wrote:
> Nothing else crashes on my computer, only Opera 7.23
And here's the problem with PCs, different hardware and software
combinations cause all sorts of havoc.
Opera 7.23 has been the most rock solid of the whole 7.xx line for me.
And Opera is still infinitely less crash happy than IE ever was.
(I don't use Mozilla/Firewhatever enough to fairly judge their stability;
but I have seen them crash)
> having obtained a bug number. But they never acknowledged any of them,
OS never officially acknowledge bug reports, but if you mention a bug here
or on the forums someone *might* say something like:
"Yep I see that, bug #??????"
The only other time they will say anything is if they need more
information off of you.
Incidentally, have you been submitting Inspector IIXII logs with your
crash reports.
If not (and you still like Opera enough otherwise) follow the procedure
here:
http://www.opera.com/support/search/supsearch.dml?index=432
Try to catch a few crashes and they might stand a better chance.
--
If you need the email... you know what to do.
Ted S.
wrote in news:opr7phkzlkvqcea7@richardg:
> In fact we're coming up to the first anniversary of the last time
> Opera crashed in day to day running. (And opera is often runnign for
> a week at a time, giving it plenty of chance to develop leaks etc.)
Aren't you lucky? :-)
Opera seems to crash too often for me on shutdown, such that when I
restart it, I get the dialog about whether to start Opera with the pages
that were open last time -- which doesn't work on pages at web bulletin
boards.
There also seems to be a conflict between Opera and my modem -- if I get
disconnected while Opera is still loading a page, I'll get the dial-up
dialog again, and if I click cancel, Opera will more often than not crash.
gar...@spamfree.com
Was 7.11 the FIRST version 7? I think thats the P.O.S. I tried.....
Peter Boulding
<BtEO.hamm...@jellyslab.com> wrote:
>Incidentally, have you been submitting Inspector IIXII logs with your
>crash reports.
>If not (and you still like Opera enough otherwise) follow the procedure
>here:
>http://www.opera.com/support/search/supsearch.dml?index=432
>Try to catch a few crashes and they might stand a better chance.
Amusingly, the article neglects to mention where to send your
IIXII logs.
Dierk Haasis
<kyli...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>I think your experience differs from most other people's.
>Hey, not mine!
Empirical evidence against anecdotal.
Whatever the case, and I've seen this with more than one program, it
seems some set-ups are prone to crashes. The original statement about
"most" users still holds, even when a handful of users do encounter
numerous crashes.
I haven't had a crash with 7.50x on Windows, although on Mac it
frequently shuts down without any reason (but then, Word on Mac OS X
10.3.3 does the same).
--
Dierk
Anti-imperialist
>
I could have written this entire letter myself. Opera has not made a
decent browser since 5.12. I still use 6.05 and it is gorgeous and
wonderful except for the horrible fact that it hardlocks my system on
certain webpages, including INSANELY THE OPERA HOMEPAGE.
I have utter contempt for OS. OS was told repeatedly about horrible
stability problems on O6x and O7x esp on Win98 systems. There was zero
effort made to discover the problem and the response was uniformly that
the user was dreaming. How come OS won't fix its browser?!
YOU TELL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir,
Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron
Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis
Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward
Herman and Lenni Brenner.
I support the Jewish People's Liberation Organization
http://www.eccmei.net/E/E019.html
The penultimate web resource on the Iraqi Resistance:
http://www.jihadunspun.com/articles/18122003-Iraqi-Resistence/ir/
Anti-imperialist
>
> I used to use Opera 4.x and 5.x and thought it was the greatest thing.
The ultimate was 5.12.
> I have always hated IE,
Refuse on principal.
and although I like Netscape, Netscape has
> always been unstable.
Ok for newsgroups.
I tried a few other browsera and most of them
> were incompatible with many webpages, or simply had no features at
> all.
Moz is ok but has serious problems.
>
> Opera was great. I liked all the features, it was stable, yet not
> overbloated.
5.12 was a dream. It was like impossible to crash that thing. I could
have more windows open then I could count. I would reload 15 webpages
at once and watch O race thru them all.
Version 5.x was nearly perfect. Then came version 6.x.
> I bagan to find it was bloated, slower than prior versions, and had
> several bugs. The later 6.x versions got worse instead of better.
O 6 hardlocked my system immediately and O never tried to fix it. O
6.05 was finally barely stable.
>
> Then came version 7.x. It was supposed to be a big change, and be
> much better..... WRONG. It became very unstable.
I opened 7.11 up one time and it barely started to load the 1st page
when it hardlocked the whole system. That is the definition of a POS.
It was so bloated
> that I had to spend hours trying to learn the damn thing. The bottom
> line, I hated it. I tried to go back to version 6.x, but somehow 7.x
> had totally corrupted my ability to use an earlier version.
Ee gads.
I finally
> removed every Opera directory, file, and used some special software to
> remove all the garbage it stuffed into my windows directories. Then I
> used regedit and removed every instance of Opera from my registry.
Ee gads.
>
> That was at least a year ago, (shortly after the first edition of ver.
> 7). I will never use Opera again, and I am posting this knowing some
> Opera employee will most likely stumble across this message.
Waste of time, OS does not listen to users execept to accuse them of
hallucination.
Opera
> was one of the best browsers ever made, and you people (at Opera)
> ruined it.
Yep but WHY?????????????????????
Sure, now that I got everything cleaned out of my
> computer, I could probably reinstall version 5.x again, but why would
> I want to use a dead end browser with no future.
You will get 500 million Javascript errors anyway. :((((((
You people at Opera
> should have stuck with the ORIGINAL Opera format, but instead you
> killed it.
They turned into Microsoft or something I have no idea.
>
> At this point, I have gone back to IE, and have found another browser
> that's almost as good as the original Opera, and getting better every
> upgrade.
IE 6.0x is a horrid POS here. I recommend Moz 1.5.
I just hope they dont go overboard and kill their browser
> too.
IE is junk. How can you use it?
Anti-imperialist
>
> On Mon, 03 May 2004 00:28:26 -0500, gar...@SPAMFREE.com wrote:
>
> > I bagan to find it was bloated, slower than prior versions, and had
> > several bugs. The later 6.x versions got worse instead of better.
>
It mirrors mine.
>
> > Then came version 7.x. It was supposed to be a big change, and be
> > much better..... WRONG. It became very unstable. It was so bloated
> > that I had to spend hours trying to learn the damn thing.
>
> Well, except one thing... Opera 7.0 was actually smaller in size than
> Opera 6.
Who cares, it won't even open a webpage.
>
> > The bottom line, I hated it.
>
> How come?
Hardlocks system within 5 seconds of opening?
> ...
> > I finally removed every Opera directory, file, and used some special
> > software to remove all the garbage it stuffed into my windows
> > directories.
>
> Opera doesn't actually store anything in your Windows directory.
>
> > That was at least a year ago, (shortly after the first edition of ver.
> > 7). I will never use Opera again, and I am posting this knowing some
> > Opera employee will most likely stumble across this message.
>
> Certainly, but for what purpose? We see that more and more people
> start using Opera, and the feedback is great. Unless you can be more
> specific about your problems, your message doesn't really serve any
> useful purpose.
We have been specific about our problems and all you do is ignore us. I
have been complaining about the hardlock problem for years and you
accuse me of hallucination. And I had company.
>
> > Opera was one of the best browsers ever made, and you people (at Opera)
> > ruined it. Sure, now that I got everything cleaned out of my
> > computer, I could probably reinstall version 5.x again, but why would
> > I want to use a dead end browser with no future. You people at Opera
> > should have stuck with the ORIGINAL Opera format, but instead you
> > killed it.
>
> I still don't quite understand what you think is so terrible about
> more recent versions.
It hardlocks my goddamn system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anti-imperialist
>
> On Mon, 03 May 2004 11:27:02 +0200, Håvard Kvam Moen
> <haa...@opera-dot-com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 03 May 2004 00:28:26 -0500, gar...@SPAMFREE.com wrote:
> >
> >> Opera was great. I liked all the features, it was stable, yet not
> >> overbloated. Version 5.x was nearly perfect. Then came version 6.x.
> >> I bagan to find it was bloated, slower than prior versions, and had
> >> several bugs. The later 6.x versions got worse instead of better.
> >
> >I think your experience differs from most other people's.
>
> Hey, not mine! He pretty much described what has happened to me since
> I moved from 5 to 6 and now to 7. Crashes started happening under 6
> and they appear to be *more* frequent under 7. Nothing else crashes on
> my computer, only Opera 7.23. I emailed numerous dumps to Opera,
> having obtained a bug number.
They never even showed me how to do that.
But they never acknowledged any of them,
> and their web site now offers the 7.5 version as a "beta" download!
>
> Yeah, like I'd try a beta, when the last full release is flaky!
What is the diff anymore between a beta and a full release. The full
acts like the worst beta on Earth.
Once again, my experience precisely. Hey OS, this is called a PATTERN!
Anti-imperialist
>
> On Sat, 08 May 2004 15:53:30 +0100, Mike Mitchell <kyli...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > Hey, not mine! He pretty much described what has happened to me since
> > I moved from 5 to 6 and now to 7. Crashes started happening under 6
> > and they appear to be *more* frequent under 7. Nothing else crashes on
> > my computer, only Opera 7.23. I emailed numerous dumps to Opera,
> > having obtained a bug number. But they never acknowledged any of them,
> > and their web site now offers the 7.5 version as a "beta" download!
> >
> Well, there was one version of Opera 7 (7.11) which was IMO the least
> stable Opera version ever.
I agree, except it hardlocked my system within about 3 seconds.
So I started using 7.2 betas immediately, and
> they were extremely stable.
Hmmmmm.
Ditto 7.5.
> In fact we're coming up to the first anniversary of the last time Opera
> crashed in day to day running. (And opera is often runnign for a week at a
> time, giving it plenty of chance to develop leaks etc.)
Whatever, hows abouts OS tries to deal with folks on whose systems Opera
sucks bigtime????
Anti-imperialist
One of the worst softwares ever made?
Anti-imperialist
>
> Somebody claiming to be "Richard Grevers" <newsr...@dramatic.co.nz>
> wrote in news:opr7phkzlkvqcea7@richardg:
>
> > In fact we're coming up to the first anniversary of the last time
> > Opera crashed in day to day running. (And opera is often runnign for
> > a week at a time, giving it plenty of chance to develop leaks etc.)
>
> Aren't you lucky? :-)
>
> Opera seems to crash too often for me on shutdown, such that when I
> restart it, I get the dialog about whether to start Opera with the pages
> that were open last time -- which doesn't work on pages at web bulletin
> boards.
Well at least it don't hardlock yer system.
What is ur version?
>
> There also seems to be a conflict between Opera and my modem -- if I get
> disconnected while Opera is still loading a page, I'll get the dial-up
> dialog again, and if I click cancel, Opera will more often than not crash.
Yeh, if I go off the net, O 6.05 crashes. Lame!
Anti-imperialist
>
> On Sat, 08 May 2004 15:53:30 +0100, Mike Mitchell <kyli...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > Nothing else crashes on my computer, only Opera 7.23
>
> And here's the problem with PCs, different hardware and software
> combinations cause all sorts of havoc.
> Opera 7.23 has been the most rock solid of the whole 7.xx line for me.
Hell that aint sayin much. Kinda like the most stable town in Gaza or
something.
> And Opera is still infinitely less crash happy than IE ever was.
Who cares? Since when do we compare POS to POS?
> (I don't use Mozilla/Firewhatever enough to fairly judge their stability;
> but I have seen them crash)
Not bad at all but have some serious probs.
>
> > having obtained a bug number. But they never acknowledged any of them,
>
> OS never officially acknowledge bug reports, but if you mention a bug here
> or on the forums someone *might* say something like:
> "Yep I see that, bug #??????"
> The only other time they will say anything is if they need more
> information off of you.
Do they ever fix crashers? Name one time OS fixed one serious crasher.
>
> Incidentally, have you been submitting Inspector IIXII logs with your
> crash reports.
> If not (and you still like Opera enough otherwise) follow the procedure
> here:
> http://www.opera.com/support/search/supsearch.dml?index=432
> Try to catch a few crashes and they might stand a better chance.
OK that is how I send a crasher report?
Ted S.
news:409E0CE...@imperialism.not:
> I have utter contempt for OS. OS was told repeatedly about horrible
> stability problems on O6x and O7x esp on Win98 systems. There was zero
> effort made to discover the problem and the response was uniformly that
> the user was dreaming. How come OS won't fix its browser?!
I have 98SE as well, and haven't had the system locks you're complaining
about. Perhaps the problem is something else in your system
configuration?
Anti-imperialist
>
> Somebody claiming to be Anti-imperialist <n...@imperialism.not> wrote in
> news:409E0CE...@imperialism.not:
>
> > I have utter contempt for OS. OS was told repeatedly about horrible
> > stability problems on O6x and O7x esp on Win98 systems. There was zero
> > effort made to discover the problem and the response was uniformly that
> > the user was dreaming. How come OS won't fix its browser?!
>
> I have 98SE as well, and haven't had the system locks you're complaining
> about. Perhaps the problem is something else in your system
> configuration?
I really do not want to have this conversation again. This is the usual
rejoinder. Fact is, there seems to be some certain subset of Win98
lusers who have had utterly chronic stability problems, esp hard
crashes, with O6 and above to O7.2x. This same subset of lusers had
dreams with 5.12. My system works all right. On a fresh reinstall,
Opera starts hardlocking the very first day. 18 months into an install,
with an unstable Win98, Opera hardlocks just as much. Almost zero of my
other problems cause this sort of horrible hardlocks on my system, and I
run a wide variety of SW. Sure, I get crashes, but almost never that
brutal hardlocking BS.
Clearly, there is some subset of Win98 lusers who have chronic problems
with O6 and above. Clearly, the problems fall into a basic category -
hard crashes, horrible stability probs. Clearly, OS has made absolutely
zero efforts to fix this problem.
Your comment is interesting, but singularly unhelpful. How in God's
name am I supposed to figure out if it is "something in my
configuration"? Assuming it was, how could I determine this? Why would
it be, when the only problem app is Opera. How can I fix a problem that
is apparently impossible to diagnose?
Anti-imperialist
have problems with certain configurations, is that not the sort of thing
that gets fixed on the software end? Seems that is what SW testing is
all about eh? It's usually "a subset of users" with many bugs. BFD.
Quality SW companies try to fix the problem, period.
Anti-imperialist
> Well that is just your personal opinion and I'd like to really know why.
Cuz it hardlocks my f-----g system?! How bout that?!
> OK, version 7 is a lot different to the earlier ones but, once you get
> it set up to your own liking, it has so many benefits and I find it far
> faster than IE.
Well that would be nice, but I tried O 7.11 and it lasted for 3 seconds
and then hardlocked my damn system!
>
> OK, it's got mail and Newsreader stuff which I personally never use but
> I love the wand which allows getting into password accessed pages such a
> breeze. The bookmarks are great and I've got my toolbars set up so that
> they take up a minute fraction at the top of the page. There are still
> things I'm learning about it and, yes, there are things I don't like
> about it too but I'm not even bothering to try these other Browsers that
> are being touted as the bees knees because I'm happy with this one.
I love all that groovy Opera stuff, why do you think I run Opera? I
have one small request: quit hardlocking my damned system!
>
> As it was a year ago that you last tried it (and yet strangely still
> feel the compunction to write about it, like a lover who has been
> spurned!)
He's pissed. In a way he loves Opera or the old Opera. And it's a
pisser that the old one doesn't work anymore and the new ones are poop.
Anti-imperialist
>
> On Mon, 3 May 2004 10:30:58 +0100, Richard Wakeford
> <rwak...@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >...... but show me
> >a programme that doesn't!
>
> Including invalid page faults?
>
> Wanna see 'em?
>
> OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
> 017f:00603663.
>
> OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
> 017f:00603663.
>
> OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
> 017f:00603663.
>
> OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module KERNEL32.DLL at
> 017f:bff7b9f6.
>
> OPERA caused an exception 10H in module ES262-32.DLL at 017f:67fb9a04
Javascript crash.
>
> OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
> 017f:00603663.
>
> OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
> 017f:00603663.
>
> OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
> 017f:00603663.
>
> OPERA caused an invalid page fault in module OPERA.EXE at
> 017f:00603663.
>
> It can happen on any web page, at any time. No other program does
> this.
>
Opera is unique, huh? :)
Jarek Piórkowski
wrote:
> I love all that groovy Opera stuff, why do you think I run Opera? I
> have one small request: quit hardlocking my damned system!
Since you're still here and writing messages longer than normal troll
length, install new graphics card drivers and see if that helps.
--
Jarek Piórkowski
http://www.operapl.net/ --- http://www.osiolki.net/
Richard Grevers
wrote:
> Do they ever fix crashers? Name one time OS fixed one serious crasher.
I would liat many, but a megabyte-long post wouldn't be appreciated here.
Don't the facts that:
1) Opera has millions of happy users
2) Many people experience extreme stability with Opera
suggest that the problem does not entirely lie within Opera itself.
There have over the years been a number of applications which seem to
detabilize systems and cause other software to crash: On my systems, I
got stability increases by removing quicktime and ICQ.
Another notorious app was Norton Crshguard, which caused more crashes than
it prevented for many people. FOr years, ATI wrote drivers for their video
cards which caused big problems with a list of about 40 applications
(reports of this have decreased dramatically, so presumably they have
fixed this with drivers for newer products).
90% of the crashes on my system at present are from Windows explorer
running in standalone (two pane)mode - but its "single drive" views are
all rock solid. Go figure.
Richard Grevers
wrote:
>>
> No damn excuse for OS not to even look into the problem. If O6 and O7
> have problems with certain configurations, is that not the sort of thing
> that gets fixed on the software end? Seems that is what SW testing is
> all about eh? It's usually "a subset of users" with many bugs. BFD.
> Quality SW companies try to fix the problem, period.
What would you expect them to do, fly a tech out from Oslo to check out
the total configuration of your system?
Jonathan A.
<m...@qviri.net> appears to have said:
> On Sun, 09 May 2004 08:42:58 -0700, Anti-imperialist <n...@imperialism.not>
> wrote:
>
>> I love all that groovy Opera stuff, why do you think I run Opera? I
>> have one small request: quit hardlocking my damned system!
>
> Since you're still here and writing messages longer than normal troll
> length, install new graphics card drivers and see if that helps.
That's what I was thinking as I read this thread this morning. If
"hardlocking" means a frozen mouse and unresponsive keyboard, with
nothing left to do but hit the reset button, it's just about got to
be a hardware related problem.
First thing I'd suspect is graphics... then sound... maybe even the
printer. Something about Opera may well trigger a bug in the graphics
drivers, etc. but I think it's unlikely in the extreme that a browser
would cause the machine to freeze like that without help from some
buggy hardware/drivers.
My $0.02,
Jonathan
--
Don't just hit reply. Email address is broken. Thank
your friendly neighborhood spammer. Email replies to:
user: jnthn1 domain: earthlink<dot>net
Bill Leary
news:2tsp90h35kd312bfl...@4ax.com...
> >I think your experience differs from most other people's.
Probably, but...
> Hey, not mine!
Nor mine.
Except that I still think that, when it runs (which, thatnkfully, is most of
the time), it's the best browser around, and I still use it as my primary
browser. I read through a lot of this thread and two problems noted here
also occur with my system, and I've reported them (starting with, I think
7.11) with no response or results.
1. System hangs solid, requiring reset.
2. Browser and/or E-Net driver and/or computer crashes
Note that Opera is the only thing that causes 2 to occur. Well, except when
I'm doing SW development and I send some program into the stratosphere and
it takes down the system, but that's expected.
I'd reported the problems with (as I said above, I think 7.11) but I've
changed a few things since then (new graphics card, more memory, updated
graphics drivers, etc.). These improvements solved other crashes so I'd
hoped they'd solve the Opera problems too. They didn't. I've been making
notes, trying to figure out just what triggers the crash/hang planning to
try reporting again. Since I've been unable to isolate, I guess I may as
well enter a report and see what turns up.
> He pretty much described what has happened to me since
> I moved from 5 to 6 and now to 7. Crashes started happening
> under 6 and they appear to be *more* frequent under 7.
Me too, but I was having some other problems at the time, so I wasn't
prepared to blame Opera.
> Nothing else crashes on my computer, only Opera 7.23.
Same here.
> I emailed numerous dumps to Opera, having obtained a bug number.
> But they never acknowledged any of them, and their web site now offers
> the 7.5 version as a "beta" download!
>
> Yeah, like I'd try a beta, when the last full release is flaky!
I'll try to bug report again in the next couple of days. I used to load
Beta's whenever I became aware of them. I gave that up around the end of
Version 6. I do load the release versions when I read they're available.
- Bill
Andrew Gregory
> That's what I was thinking as I read this thread this morning. If
> "hardlocking" means a frozen mouse and unresponsive keyboard, with
> nothing left to do but hit the reset button, it's just about got to
> be a hardware related problem.
>
> First thing I'd suspect is graphics... then sound... maybe even the
> printer. Something about Opera may well trigger a bug in the graphics
> drivers, etc. but I think it's unlikely in the extreme that a browser
> would cause the machine to freeze like that without help from some
> buggy hardware/drivers.
I agree 100% with this view. It's NOT Opera in isolation, as otherwise
everybody here would be complaining about lockups too. It's either Opera
in conjunction with some driver, or just the driver. It could be that
Opera is using some driver function that no other application is using.
To OP:
If your drivers (especially video driver) aren't the latest, update them.
If they *are* the latest, then try *downgrading* them. Video manufacturers
especially are notorious for slipping in one optimization too many in the
pursuit of performance, with a corresponding drop in stability.
I remember a few years ago there was some magic sequence of things you
could do in Excel to get your computer to lock up. Something to do with
zooming. That was traced to a certain set of video drivers, not Excel at
all.
Don't think we don't believe that your system is locking up when using
Opera. We do. We just disagree with all the ranting and raving that places
the blame *solely* on Opera. That is not being helpful.
--
Andrew Gregory
<URL: http://www.scss.com.au/family/andrew/ >
Anti-imperialist
>
> On Sun, 09 May 2004 04:20:57 -0700, Anti-imperialist <n...@imperialism.not>
> wrote:
>
> > Do they ever fix crashers? Name one time OS fixed one serious crasher.
>
> I would liat many, but a megabyte-long post wouldn't be appreciated here.
> Don't the facts that:
> 1) Opera has millions of happy users
> 2) Many people experience extreme stability with Opera
> suggest that the problem does not entirely lie within Opera itself.
You know nothing about SW development.
>
> There have over the years been a number of applications which seem to
> detabilize systems and cause other software to crash: On my systems, I
> got stability increases by removing quicktime and ICQ.
LOL!!!!!!!!!! Oh, it must be *some other SW on my system* causing poor
innocent Opera to crash! LOL!
Do not run those.
> Another notorious app was Norton Crshguard, which caused more crashes than
> it prevented for many people.
Do not run.
FOr years, ATI wrote drivers for their video
> cards which caused big problems with a list of about 40 applications
> (reports of this have decreased dramatically, so presumably they have
> fixed this with drivers for newer products).
Do not run ATI drivers.
> 90% of the crashes on my system at present are from Windows explorer
> running in standalone (two pane)mode - but its "single drive" views are
> all rock solid. Go figure.
Windows Ex crashes all the time here too when open.
A suggetion has been made that my problem is graphics driver. Feel free
to carry on the discussion.
Anti-imperialist
>
> On Sun, 09 May 2004 08:39:02 -0700, Anti-imperialist <n...@imperialism.not>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > No damn excuse for OS not to even look into the problem. If O6 and O7
> > have problems with certain configurations, is that not the sort of thing
> > that gets fixed on the software end? Seems that is what SW testing is
> > all about eh? It's usually "a subset of users" with many bugs. BFD.
> > Quality SW companies try to fix the problem, period.
>
> What would you expect them to do, fly a tech out from Oslo to check out
> the total configuration of your system?
I understand how SW development works. When you have a crasher, you
want total system configuration on crashing systems. This is analyzed
to see what the problem may be. This is like SW Dev 101 man.
Anti-imperialist
>
> On Sun, 09 May 2004 08:42:58 -0700, Anti-imperialist <n...@imperialism.not>
> wrote:
>
> > I love all that groovy Opera stuff, why do you think I run Opera? I
> > have one small request: quit hardlocking my damned system!
>
> Since you're still here and writing messages longer than normal troll
> length, install new graphics card drivers and see if that helps.
Diamond Stealth III S540 for Windows 98
Version: 4.11.01.0208-8.10.24
Provider: S3 Incorporated
Date: 1999
STL50016.DRV
STL500.VXD
Also dated 11-30-2001
Now we are getting somewhere. Thank you very much. Can you help me
now. I understand the company is out of business. :( All help
appreciated. :)
Anti-imperialist
>
> On 9 May 2004 21:21:01 GMT, Jonathan A. <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > That's what I was thinking as I read this thread this morning. If
> > "hardlocking" means a frozen mouse and unresponsive keyboard, with
> > nothing left to do but hit the reset button, it's just about got to
> > be a hardware related problem.
> >
> > First thing I'd suspect is graphics...
Certain pages are "deadly". PARTICULARLY PAGES WITH A GREAT DEAL OF
GRAPHICS, HEAVY GRAPHICS, LARGE PHOTOS. :)
then sound...
Often off. Sound can crash things but not hardlock here.
maybe even the
> > printer.
Often off. Printer can crash things but not hardlock here.
Something about Opera may well trigger a bug in the graphics
> > drivers, etc.
Apparently this may indeed be the precise problem. In my years on this
board, you are the first person to hit that nail. :)
but I think it's unlikely in the extreme that a browser
> > would cause the machine to freeze like that without help from some
> > buggy hardware/drivers.
Perhaps, I am not an expert on such things.
>
> I agree 100% with this view. It's NOT Opera in isolation, as otherwise
> everybody here would be complaining about lockups too.
This is my point, it is Opera conflicting with something on the system.
It's either Opera
> in conjunction with some driver,
Must be.
or just the driver.
The driver itself does not ever cause any kind of hardlock crashes, well
not generally anyway. More like BSODs.
It could be that
> Opera is using some driver function that no other application is using.
Ahh brilliant comment. Where do I send $?
>
> To OP:
That me?
>
> If your drivers (especially video driver) aren't the latest, update them.
> If they *are* the latest, then try *downgrading* them. Video manufacturers
> especially are notorious for slipping in one optimization too many in the
> pursuit of performance, with a corresponding drop in stability.
Diamond Stealth III S540 for Windows 98
Version: 4.11.01.0208-8.10.24
Provider: S3 Incorporated
Date: 1999
STL50016.DRV
STL500.VXD
Also dated 11-30-2001
Can you help me now. I understand the company is out of business. :(
All help
appreciated. :)
>
> I remember a few years ago there was some magic sequence of things you
> could do in Excel to get your computer to lock up.
I have been following SW dev closely for sometime now, it is not just
Excel but all sorts of apps, OS's etc. Legendary problem.
Something to do with
> zooming. That was traced to a certain set of video drivers, not Excel at
> all.
Drivers often mess up apps, other drivers, OS's, etc. Legendary issue.
>
> Don't think we don't believe that your system is locking up when using
> Opera. We do.
Thank you.
We just disagree with all the ranting and raving that places
> the blame *solely* on Opera.
I am pissed. For years all I ever got were flames, denials, I was told
I was hallucinating, and absolutely no effort at all to even look into
the matter. Not only that, but almost always, there would be a number
of other posters chiming in with rather similar problems: Basically, a
serious stability decline on Opera 6x - O7.2x as opposed to O5x, esp on
Windows 98. Beyond that I guess things varied, but surely it is been a
fairly significant screaming chorus over the years.
That is not being helpful.
THEY NEVER EVEN BOTHERED TO LOOK INTO THE PROBLEM.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:(((((((((((((((((((((((((
Anti-imperialist
>
> "Mike Mitchell" <kyli...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:2tsp90h35kd312bfl...@4ax.com...
> > >I think your experience differs from most other people's.
>
> Probably, but...
>
> > Hey, not mine!
>
> Nor mine.
>
> Except that I still think that, when it runs (which, thatnkfully, is most of
> the time), it's the best browser around, and I still use it as my primary
> browser.
I would agree with that - I just want it to stop crashing.
I read through a lot of this thread and two problems noted here
> also occur with my system, and I've reported them (starting with, I think
> 7.11) with no response or results.
>
> 1. System hangs solid, requiring reset.
Wow, there is my problem!
> 2. Browser
Yes.
and/or E-Net driver
Eek.
and/or computer crashes
Eek.
>
> Note that Opera is the only thing that causes 2 to occur. Well, except when
> I'm doing SW development and I send some program into the stratosphere and
> it takes down the system, but that's expected.
>
> I'd reported the problems with (as I said above, I think 7.11) but I've
> changed a few things since then (new graphics card, more memory, updated
> graphics drivers, etc.). These improvements solved other crashes so I'd
> hoped they'd solve the Opera problems too. They didn't.
Eek.
I've been making
> notes, trying to figure out just what triggers the crash/hang planning to
> try reporting again.
Is it certain pages?
Anti-imperialist
>
> On Mon, 03 May 2004 00:28:26 -0500, <gar...@SPAMFREE.com> wrote:
>
> > At this point, I have gone back to IE, and have found another browser
> > that's almost as good as the original Opera, and getting better every
> > too.
> >
> > Gary L.
>
> "I have gone back to IE"? - you're kidding right?
> It's "getting better every upgrade" - did I miss some upgrades?
IE seems to be getting dramatically worse - is that your experience?
Paul McGarry
wrote:
> Something about Opera may well trigger a bug in the graphics
>> > drivers, etc.
>
> Apparently this may indeed be the precise problem. In my years on this
> board, you are the first person to hit that nail. :)
I can't believe that.
Historically there have been two main causes of "wierd" crashes (ie ones
that aren't easily reproducable by others as a bug in Opera).
Those causes are:
a) Video drivers
b) Personal proxy/firewall software.
Invariably these are pointed out very quickly when someone asks for help.
> Diamond Stealth III S540 for Windows 98
>
> Version: 4.11.01.0208-8.10.24
> Provider: S3 Incorporated
> Date: 1999
>
> STL50016.DRV
> STL500.VXD
>
> Also dated 11-30-2001
>
> Can you help me now. I understand the company is out of business. :(
> All help
> appreciated. :)
That version number is a bit inscrutible, but these look like a later
version:
http://www.techspot.com/drivers/index/file/information/1790
--
Paul McGarry
http://paulmcgarry.com/
Anti-imperialist
>
> On Mon, 03 May 2004 10:11:11 -0300, Sebas
> <sebas_sor...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
> >Bill P. wrote in opera.general :
> >
> >>On Mon, 03 May 2004 00:28:26 -0500, <gar...@SPAMFREE.com> wrote:
> >>
> >><snip>
> >>> At this point, I have gone back to IE, and have found another browser
> >>> that's almost as good as the original Opera, and getting better every
> >>> upgrade. I just hope they dont go overboard and kill their browser
> >>> too.
> >>>
> >>> Gary L.
> >>
> >>"I have gone back to IE"? - you're kidding right?
> >>It's "getting better every upgrade" - did I miss some upgrades?
> >>make an effort and add functionality like tabs (let alone security)?
> >>So tell me true - are you a troll?
> >
> >I understand that he decided to go back to IE (I really don't know how
> >he can find IE better and less bloated than any version of Opera) BUT
> >he has also found another browser (is it Firefox ?) that is almost as
> >good........
>
> No, it's Avant Browser.
> It's simple, the way a browser should be.
Does it actually work? Does it run modern webpages JS Java etc.
Yes, I do like IE, and for one reason. It's quick,
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.
and its'
> simple *(at least version 5.5, which is all I use)..
I am on IE 6.0x and something horrible happened to it I think
Anti-imperialist
>
> On Tue, 04 May 2004 05:22:59 -0500, gar...@SPAMFREE.com wrote:
>
> >Avant is much like the earlier versions of Opera, except faster, and
> >with fewer things that need to be set. Yet, there are features, and if
> >I would want some of those useless things made for 8 year old kids,
> >like SKINS, they are available too. Why anyone wants that sort of
> >crap, I will never know,
>
> Totally agree. I've only been using 7.23 for a few weeks and the first
> thing I noticed was the wand! Flipping heck, are they now going to
> pump it full of gimmicks like another piece of Microsoft bloatware? I
> agree, too, about the skins. What the heck do I care what the ruddy
> skin looks like? It's a browser, for Christ's sake, not a work of art!
>
> I'm going to look at Avant right now and see whether it will do. I,
> too, hate gimmicks. I just want a damn browser that doesn't crash and
> isn't Microsoft. I'm losing patience with Opera, sorry.
Avant is Microsoft. Use Mozilla.
Anti-imperialist
>
> I also agree with what you said in another message. Opera 5 was
> stable, 6 started to become unstable, and 7 was crash city.
Wow another one! You know there have been so many ppl saying this same
thing, and has OS even acknowledged this obvious issue. NO.
The same
> thing about the bloating.
O6.05 is still pretty sleek.
Just like MS did to MS Word. I wont even
> touch the newer versions of Word. Way too many features. I got one
> from 96 or 97 installed.
I have Word 2000 and it is nice but once you get up to about a 200 page
document, Word does not want to work with the document anymore. What a
POS.
Anti-imperialist
>
> And, Avant *IS* a browser, not an extension or "skin" for IE.
> However, I do know it requires some portions of IE to function,
Ok that zeroes it out in my book. Reminds me of Yahoo Messenger
Paltalk, Eyeball Chat and others. You know everyone one of those progs
that "needs IE components" is a crash-happy disgusting despicable
POF_____GS?
but
> without knowing all the technical stuff, I will mention that I used
> IEexterminate on a test setup of Windows on a spare computer. (a
> download that removes IE). Then I ran Avant and it worked fine.
Avant uses the IE engine. When you dl Avant you just download IE I
think plus other stuff.
>
> Ans just for knowledge, I installed Mozilla awhile back. It found it
> surely does run on the same platform as Netscape. It crashed every
> hour or so, just like every version of Netscape I have ever used.
I find N 4.79 a superb newsreader.
> Which is the reason I avoid Netscape.
I understand your predicament and I had the same experience, however,
Moz 1.5 is truly fantastic compared to earlier Moz on my system. I
strongly recommend it.
>
> Personally, if I had to choose a browser based on features and
> appearance, it would be Netscape. It was the first browser I ever
> used, way back when the internet was first getting popular, and I was
> running Win3.x on a 386 computer. I probably used just about every
> version of it on several computers and OS's and it was always crash
> prone. Mozilla looked pretty decent, but when it started crashing, it
> went into the trash.
Try 1.5
IE crashes once and awhile, Avant crashes once
> in awhile, Netscape and Mozilla crash regularly,
1.5 should crash rarely.
Anti-imperialist
>
> I did find that IEradicate removed the IE browser, but there is still
> the part of IE that is built into Windows. Apparently that part is
> non-removable. (I'm not geeky enough to know all the details, nor do I
> really care, as long as it works).
Do you see that crappy POF--GS called "Windows Exploder" on your
sh-tstem, I mean system? That is really Windows (Internet) Exploder.
;)
Dude, this is an Opera group. You want to rant about some diseased IE
add-on go somewhere else.
Anti-imperialist
>
> "Bill P." <googl...@xxxhotmailxxx.com> writes:
>
> > You're wrong and if you read the Avant faq you'd know that you
> > couldn't remove IE and run Avant because it's a requirement. Facts is
> > Facts
>
> Is that a fact? :)
>
> Ok, to be exact: Avant doesn't require IE. It requires the Microsoft
> HTML component,
Screw that! Screw (Microsoft [TM] HTML). What the Hell is MSHTML. Why
did Micros--t go and make their own HTML?! Screw MS "HTML nonrendering
engine".
which is also used by IE to render web pages.
Screw it, it's a disease.
>
> Avant is not just a skin for IE. It might be "just a skin" for the
> HTML component, but then so is IE. To me, that makes Avant just
> as much a browser as IE is, and probably a lot better. Sadly, it
> also suffers from all the problems inherent in the HTML component,
> which is one reason I won't use it.
It needs IE, it is diseased, it has the seeds of cancer, of evil, in
it. Avoid!
Anti-imperialist
>
> The tech types can correct me on this, but doesn't IE open faster because
> part of it is front-loaded (and constantly uses memory) when the OS is
> started?
PART of it?! How bout 80%, bro? That is one thing I really hate about
that browser. Those pricks did that on purpose, to bind the broswer to
the OS, to be a monopoly, the cheat on the "fast-loading" BS. Weird
thing is speed tests with O6 vs IE 6 - O6 kicked IE6's butt speedwise.
O6 kicked all other major browers. Can we quit calling Opera slow for
now?
If you really want to talk about cooking dinner and taking a
> shower while waiting for something to load, you ought to be talking about
> loading a Windows OS. :-)
Try loading a large photo file on Photoshop on a Mac with only 128 MB of
memory. It's not just go make a cup of coffee. More like go to
Colombia. :)
Anti-imperialist
>
> Why is out current U.S. President close-minded?...because he believes
> marriage is between a man and a woman..or he believes that a fetus is a
> person and shouldn't be killed..or he is a Christian and believes that the
> God of Jehovah is the one true God and his Creator. or that he make take
> the opposite view of other politically correct ideas.
>
Because he does not believe in facts? I believe he still thinks there
are WMD's in Iraq, no?
Anti-imperialist
>
> said...
>
> [quite uninnovative Flamebait snipped]
>
> > At this point, I have gone back to IE, and have found another browser
> > that's almost as good as the original Opera
>
>
> YMMD.
Yeh I know. Is this guy an MVP. Is he posting from Redmond?
Anti-imperialist
>
> On Sun, 09 May 2004 21:10:47 -0700, Anti-imperialist <n...@imperialism.not>
> wrote:
>
> > Something about Opera may well trigger a bug in the graphics
> >> > drivers, etc.
> >
> > Apparently this may indeed be the precise problem. In my years on this
> > board, you are the first person to hit that nail. :)
>
> I can't believe that.
Ppl have mentioned video drivers before, but no one ever described how a
video driver may cause a specific problem in Opera as this genius did.
> Historically there have been two main causes of "wierd" crashes (ie ones
> that aren't easily reproducable by others as a bug in Opera).
Lots of folks are reporting instability problems on Opera, and I am NOT
the only one reporting hardlocks.
>
> Those causes are:
> a) Video drivers
K.
> b) Personal proxy/firewall software.
Do not use.
>
> Invariably these are pointed out very quickly when someone asks for help.
>
> > Diamond Stealth III S540 for Windows 98
> >
> > Version: 4.11.01.0208-8.10.24
> > Provider: S3 Incorporated
> > Date: 1999
> >
> > STL50016.DRV
> > STL500.VXD
> >
> > Also dated 11-30-2001
> >
> > Can you help me now. I understand the company is out of business. :(
> > All help
> > appreciated. :)
>
> That version number is a bit inscrutible, but these look like a later
> version:
>
> http://www.techspot.com/drivers/index/file/information/1790
>
Thx man!!!!!!!
Where do I send the money? :)
Paul McGarry
wrote:
>> > Diamond Stealth III S540 for Windows 98
>>
>> http://www.techspot.com/drivers/index/file/information/1790
>>
> Thx man!!!!!!!
>
> Where do I send the money? :)
If Opera didn't simply let me select "Diamond Stealth II S540 for Windows
98", right click and choose "search" I probably wouldn't have
bothered......
Richard Grevers
wrote:
> Richard Grevers wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 09 May 2004 04:20:57 -0700, Anti-imperialist
>> <n...@imperialism.not>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Do they ever fix crashers? Name one time OS fixed one serious
>> crasher.
>>
>> I would liat many, but a megabyte-long post wouldn't be appreciated
>> here.
>> Don't the facts that:
>> 1) Opera has millions of happy users
>> 2) Many people experience extreme stability with Opera
>> suggest that the problem does not entirely lie within Opera itself.
>
> You know nothing about SW development.
Okay then, I'd better go and tell all my clients to stop using my
e-commerce and content-management suites at once because I don't know what
i'm doing.
Bill Leary
news:409F08D2...@imperialism.not...
> I've been making
> > notes, trying to figure out just what triggers the crash/hang planning
to
> > try reporting again.
>
> Is it certain pages?
I'd thought so for a while, and maybe it is, but since I visit a certain
number of pages frequently (Yahoo news, IMDb, etc.) random chance favors
that it's going to happen on those pages anyway. Still, it *feels* like
it's just about as likely to happen (hang or crash) on any given page. What
*does* seem to contribute is if I let the system sit for a long time, say
while reading a long article, then jump through a couple of pages quickly.
It seems to often hang up on the second or third page. I also have a
tendency to anticipate where I'm going to have to click on the page coming
up and move the mouse while the page is loading. Again, it's just a
feeling, but I'd swear (and I mean obscenity here) that doing so while it's
loading a page makes it more likely to happen.
- Bill
Jonathan A.
>> On 9 May 2004 21:21:01 GMT, Jonathan A. <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> First thing I'd suspect is graphics...
>
> Certain pages are "deadly". PARTICULARLY PAGES WITH A GREAT DEAL OF
> GRAPHICS, HEAVY GRAPHICS, LARGE PHOTOS. :)
I'll bet it is the video card/drivers, then.
>>> Something about Opera may well trigger a bug in the graphics
>>> drivers, etc.
>
> Apparently this may indeed be the precise problem. In my years on this
> board, you are the first person to hit that nail. :)
I've seen it over and over on various PC's. Some app seems to be hell
bent on destruction, when all along it was just "touching" a piece of
hardware in a "sensitive spot" due to some bug in the drivers or even
the hardware itself.
> Andrew Gregory wrote:
>>
>> If your drivers (especially video driver) aren't the latest, update them.
>> If they *are* the latest, then try *downgrading* them. Video manufacturers
>> especially are notorious for slipping in one optimization too many in the
>> pursuit of performance, with a corresponding drop in stability.
Agreed. Also, I've found that just setting the 2D acceleration down a
notch can clear things up. It's a workaround rather than a fix, but it
could help.
To OP: If you don't know how to do that, here's a quick way:
Right click on "My Computer" and click "Properties" on the popup menu.
Click the "Performance" tab, then the "Graphics" button.
There, you can set the level of 2D hardware acceleration. Might be worth
a shot to drop it down a notch or even two, and see what happens.
> Diamond Stealth III S540 for Windows 98
>
> Version: 4.11.01.0208-8.10.24
> Provider: S3 Incorporated
> Date: 1999
>
> STL50016.DRV
> STL500.VXD
>
> Also dated 11-30-2001
Have a look at this page:
<http://www.video-drivers.com/drivers/78/78557.htm>
There are some newer drivers there, and a very interesting note about
the S540 and lockups. Is your machine a Compaq? Might be you need to
flash the BIOS on that thing to clear up the freezes.
And, as always... google is your friend:
<http://www.google.com/search?q=Diamond+Stealth+III+S540+locks>
HTH,
Richard Grevers
> I also agree with what you said in another message. Opera 5 was
> stable, 6 started to become unstable, and 7 was crash city. The same
> thing about the bloating. Just like MS did to MS Word. I wont even
> touch the newer versions of Word. Way too many features. I got one
> from 96 or 97 installed.
>
I think I see symptoms of nostalgia/memory fade. Opera 5.12 wasn't
particularly stable compared to O6 - It was stable relative to IE, but
that's not saying much.
The one superbly stable version of Opera prior to 7.2 was 3.62
Besides, if you needed to upload files, you couldn't use 5.12, but had to
revert to 5.11, which had its own critical bugs which were fixed in 5.12.
Rijk van Geijtenbeek
wrote:
..
> I understand how SW development works. When you have a crasher, you
> want total system configuration on crashing systems. This is analyzed
> to see what the problem may be. This is like SW Dev 101 man.
And here you see the problem when you write a product that is used on an
almost infinite number of slightly different systems. Or often very
different systems. We simply don't have the resources in house to test
Opera on large numbers of 'dirty' Win9x systems, and that would be needed
because Opera is a complex product.
You claim a few times in this thread that Opera doesn't fix issues, and
that is nonsense. Many thousands of big and small issues have been fixed
over the years. But some things are very hard to solve, and btw also very
hard to find out about. We have improved our QA system a lot over the last
2 years, all bug reports now usually get looked at in one or two weeks,
and this makes it easier to solicit more info from reporters and see which
areas need more in house testing. But this requires people to report bugs
clearly, and include their mail address in the report.
--
The Web is a procrastination apparatus: | Rijk van Geijtenbeek
It can absorb as much time as | Documentation & QA
is required to ensure that you | Opera Software ASA
won't get any real work done. - J.Nielsen | mailto:ri...@opera.com N
Håvard Kvam Moen
<p...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote:
> Amusingly, the article neglects to mention where to send your
> IIXII logs.
I guess mainly because bug reports with just a log aren't usually very
useful. We need to know the circumstances, so bringing it up here or
in the forums first is a good idea.
Håvard Kvam Moen
<kyli...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm going to look at Avant right now and see whether it will do. I,
> too, hate gimmicks.
Seeing as Avant uses the IE engine, and borrows heavily from Opera (it
was originally called IEOpera - Opera for MSIE), you may be
disappointed.
Håvard Kvam Moen
<n...@imperialism.not> wrote:
...
> > > The bottom line, I hated it.
> >
> > How come?
>
> Hardlocks system within 5 seconds of opening?
You mean that it freezes Windows completely so you have to reboot? As
mentioned by others here, you should probably check your drivers.
...
> > Certainly, but for what purpose? We see that more and more people
> > start using Opera, and the feedback is great. Unless you can be more
> > specific about your problems, your message doesn't really serve any
> > useful purpose.
>
> We have been specific about our problems and all you do is ignore us.
"You" being Opera Software? These newsgroups are a user community, and
we mostly read and post here on a voluntary basis. You cannot really
expect or demand a reply here, unfortunately.
> I have been complaining about the hardlock problem for years and you
> accuse me of hallucination.
Really? When did that happen?