Philip J Koenig wrote: > In article <slrncajh7k.11m6...@snoopy.sheridan.co.uk>, o...@matthewwinn.me.urk > (Matthew Winn) writes... > > On Mon, 17 May 2004 16:30:00 -0700, Philip J. Koenig <See_email_@ddress_below.This_one_is.invalid> wrote: > > > My personal hypothesis is that most of the people with Opera stability > > > problems are running some variant of Windows 9.x (95/98/Me)
> > > If true, those people need to wakeup and realize that:
> > > 1) None of those versions are supported any more by Microsoft, and of > > > the one that might be (WinMe, just barely) many software and hardware > > > vendors thought it so problematic that they won't support it even > > > when they'll still support Win98.
> > And some people need to wake up and realise that:
> > 1) Older machines don't have the speed or memory to run the latest > > versions of Windows.
> > 2) Expanding those older machines is difficult and expensive: few > > retailers bother to sell memory for last century's hardware and > > there's only so far a CPU can be pushed in an old motherboard.
> > 3) Once you get into upgrading the critical parts of the hardware you > > end up having to replace the entire box.
> > I've been there: an old 16MB 100MHz machine that ran Opera 6.06 well > > under Windows 95 but could never handle XP. I eventually managed to > > track down a shop that still sold SIMMs and pushed the memory up to > > 96MB (and also switched the OS to Linux) but to persuade the machine > > to run XP I'd have had to replace the motherboard, the CPU, the power > > supply, almost all my additional cards (most of which are for ISA > > slots, which aren't a feature of many modern motherboards), add a new > > disk, and replace my existing memory. The only parts I could have > > kept would have been the case and the power cord. That's a lot of > > money and work just to cut down the number of occasional crashes.
> > The fact is, Opera on Windows 9x is a great way to make an old machine > > into a cheap and useful internet workstation. I hope Opera continues > > to support these systems for as long as possible. > I don't dispute that, but it's also highly unrealistic to expect a > software vendor to support an operating system that is 9 years old > and which has long since ceased to be supported by its vendor. Among > various other things, you cannot get help from Microsoft to solve > software compatibility issues any more. > I think those who are running old systems should be grateful that > Opera still makes available its older products (5.x, 6.x, etc.) so > those people still have a nice option for older computers. But
IME, a major issue with running Opera on older Pentium-class systems is memory. Opera 7 may not be happy with 16 megs, but for me, it ran well on a P100 with 64 and Win98 SE lite. As I recall, Matthew would have problems with O7 where I wouldn't not because he was using Win95, but because 7.x wants more memory than 6.06.
> expecting O.S. to potentially compromise the quality and timeliness > of new releases to make sure they work great on 9 year old discontinued > operating systems running on PC's which probably aren't even Y2K > compliant, is unreasonable to say the least.
I'm one of the Last DOS Holdouts. I didn't even own a Windows box until after the Y2K rollover, and it was an old P100 with 64 megs, running Win98 SE. *It* was Y2K compliant, as is the system I'm using now (a P166).
-- For every stupidity, there is an equal and opposite stupidity.
In article <4bu0b05eeo76duhbes4bihe5pcb88su...@news.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie>,
m...@privacy.net (Spartanicus) writes... > Philip J. Koenig <See_email_@ddress_below.This_one_is.invalid> wrote:
> >> >but it's also highly unrealistic to expect a > >> >software vendor to support an operating system that is 9 years old > >> >and which has long since ceased to be supported by its vendor.
> >This does not mean that you cannot write programs for these environments, > >but it does mean that if you run into problems it can be a lot more > >difficult to get them solved.
> Opera seem more than happy to support W9x, that's all that matters, it's > a non issue.
There are still disadvantages to writing for an unsupported OS. They may not be insurmountable, but there is a difference.
> >In addition, if a developer discovers > >a bug in a currently shipping OS (ie WinXP) which causes a problem > >with their application, Microsoft may decide to release a patch to > >fix it. This will never happen with Win95 or Win98 any more.
> More irrelevant nonsense. Your argument was that Opera Software should > not/cannot make changes to Opera so that it works properly on W9x.
No I did not say that. What I said was that it is unreasonable to expect endless support for discontinued/unsupported operating environments.
> This is simple horse shit,
You have a lovely way with words. Unfortunately that does not make your argument any more valid than it would be without your obnoxious language.
> a matter for Opera Software to decide, and no > business of yours.
The entire issue is no more "business" of yours than it is of mine or of anyone else who posts messages in this forum of course. We are all free to express our opinions. (some in a reasonable fashion, some sprinkled with name-calling, epithets and hyperbole)
> Properly coded web sites work on older browsers,
Actually this is not true, because there are some older browsers which will not properly display various kinds of pages compliant with current W3C standards without special accomodation. (ie older versions of IE and Netscape)
> properly programmed W32 software runs correctly on W9x.
It is not so simple. Matter of fact there are specific issues with Opera browsers that I have experienced which cause significant usability problems because of things like which version of Winsock is installed. (upgrading the Winsock is not a requirement of running Win95, and it can also cause problems with programs which are not aware of the updated functionality)
> Your "Stop complaining and upgrade your OS" message is just as offensive > and dumb as "This website requires IE6, download it here".
That was not my message, unless someone like yourself assumes that they have a right to the latest and greatest applications even on 10 year old operating systems. That POV continues to be unreasonable and unrealistic. Look around you at how few other new applications being released by major vendors are supported under Win95.
Do you demand to be able to run Opera 7.50 under Windows 3.0 too?
-- * Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which * * differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are * * even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein * * * * To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com * * Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
> On Sun, 09 May 2004 20:50:12 -0700, Anti-imperialist <n...@imperialism.not> > wrote:
> > Richard Grevers wrote:
> >> On Sun, 09 May 2004 04:20:57 -0700, Anti-imperialist > >> <n...@imperialism.not> > >> wrote:
> >> > Do they ever fix crashers? Name one time OS fixed one serious > >> crasher.
> >> I would liat many, but a megabyte-long post wouldn't be appreciated > >> here. > >> Don't the facts that: > >> 1) Opera has millions of happy users > >> 2) Many people experience extreme stability with Opera > >> suggest that the problem does not entirely lie within Opera itself.
> > You know nothing about SW development.
> Okay then, I'd better go and tell all my clients to stop using my > e-commerce and content-management suites at once because I don't know what > i'm doing.
Sir, the fact that you make software does not mean you know what you are doing. My point: the people I know who make software (IBM) betatest the SW on all sorts of different systems. I have seen the endless discussions about obscure bugs that occur with the SW only in certain circumstances. The fact that a bug only appears in certain configurations DOES NOT mean there is no problem with the program. IBM would often fix the program to make the rare bug go away. -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
> On Sun, 09 May 2004 20:51:33 -0700, Anti-imperialist <n...@imperialism.not> > wrote:
> > I understand how SW development works. When you have a crasher, you > > want total system configuration on crashing systems. This is analyzed > > to see what the problem may be. This is like SW Dev 101 man.
> And here you see the problem when you write a product that is used on an > almost infinite number of slightly different systems. Or often very > different systems. We simply don't have the resources in house to test > Opera on large numbers of 'dirty' Win9x systems, and that would be needed > because Opera is a complex product.
You don't even seem to try. For instance, if there were some conflict between O 6x and 7x and my video card would it not be nice to know that?! You don't even want to know!
> You claim a few times in this thread that Opera doesn't fix issues, and > that is nonsense.
I do not know. No one ever took me to a bug report form.
Many thousands of big and small issues have been fixed
> over the years. But some things are very hard to solve, and btw also very > hard to find out about.
I have been complaining about this hardlock issue forever and all I ever got were bored shrugs.
We have improved our QA system a lot over the last
> 2 years, all bug reports now usually get looked at in one or two weeks, > and this makes it easier to solicit more info from reporters and see which > areas need more in house testing. But this requires people to report bugs > clearly, and include their mail address in the report.
Where do you report bugs!? -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
> On Sun, 09 May 2004 20:51:33 -0700, Anti-imperialist > <n...@imperialism.not> wrote:
> >I understand how SW development works. When you have a crasher, you > >want total system configuration on crashing systems. This is analyzed > >to see what the problem may be. This is like SW Dev 101 man.
> So, are you now concurring Richard's points, or what?
NOPE. Richard is making some lunatic assumption that
1. Since many use Opera without problems, 2. Therefore, those problems that do occur are NOT the fault of Opera! What a joke!
> Again: Many more users experience very stable Opera installations, you > don't. There must be a reason for both observations.
Generally speaking, different configurations.
Sadly nobody can
> work much out of "Hey, Opera crashes on me".
I have been complaing about this issue very specifically in here for 2 years now, and no one ever cared one bit!
BTW, Opera 7x does not seem to be too stable at all for MANY. -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
> In article <filr90hstkdmejb16gb1cv78meqojsk...@4ax.com>, Dierk.Haa...@Write4U.de > (Dierk Haasis) writes... > > On Sat, 08 May 2004 15:53:30 +0100, Mike Mitchell > > <kylix...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > >>I think your experience differs from most other people's.
> > >Hey, not mine!
> > Empirical evidence against anecdotal.
> > Whatever the case, and I've seen this with more than one program, it > > seems some set-ups are prone to crashes. The original statement about > > "most" users still holds, even when a handful of users do encounter > > numerous crashes.
> > I haven't had a crash with 7.50x on Windows, although on Mac it > > frequently shuts down without any reason (but then, Word on Mac OS X > > 10.3.3 does the same).
> My personal hypothesis is that most of the people with Opera stability > problems are running some variant of Windows 9.x (95/98/Me)
> If true, those people need to wakeup and realize that:
> 1) None of those versions are supported any more by Microsoft,
So!?
and of
> the one that might be (WinMe, just barely) many software and hardware > vendors thought it so problematic that they won't support it even > when they'll still support Win98.
> 2) Any version of Win9x is massively more unstable than Win2K or WinXP
And Win98 is massively FASTER than either of those 2 disastrous pigs.
> and simply switching OS's would likely result in a substantial > improvement in stability overall.
And a system that crawls.
> 3) Opera probably doesn't expend as much of their efforts these days > testing on platforms which are no longer supported by their vendor.
What?! Win98 is used by probably ~50 f___g million users or more around the globe! Don't give this "nonsupported" BS.
> I'll bet the majority of the rest of the problems are likely due > to:
> A) Java problems mistakenly blamed on Opera
Nope.
> B) Users/systems that are just problematic regardless of whose > software is running on them.
Nope. Problem is Opera only.>
> I use Opera day-in, day-out, 7 days a week, usually many hours > a day. Complete Opera crashes on this system (Win2K-SP4) or > on my laptop (WinXP-SP1) are EXTREMELY rare, and crashes that > take down the entire OS are virtually nonexistent.
Irrelevant.
> However I also:
> 1) Keep the systems clean without gratuitous utilities, toolbars, > background junk, games, endless test install/uninstalls, etc.
Opera crashed no matter what was running.
> 2) Use a web proxy utility (Ad-Subtract or ZoneAlarm Pro) to block > by default ad banners, cookies, redirects, animation, java, etc. > -- unless I explicitly enable one or more of the above for a > particular site.
Do not do.
> 3) Will not install RealPlayer
Do not do.
> 4) Do not run an antivirus utility (I don't recommend this for most > people but I know enough how to not get infected, and never have)
Do not do.
> 5) Do not as a rule surf sites like gaming sites or porno sites > which often use crappy scripting or active content that loves > to crash browsers
Well one of the CRAPPY sites with CRAPPY scripting and active content that crashed Opera every single time I went to it was the OPERA homepage. :D
In case you are interested, I solved the Opera 6.05 problem, though I did it on my own. I was running Direct X 6.0x something, and I updated it to Direct X 9x. Lockup problem vanished. Now if Opera was decent they would make a note of this, but they are NOT decent.
A decent thing to do would be to note: On some Win98 systems, hard lockups with Opera 6x and 7x have been observed with older versions of Direct X. Pls update to the latest DX 9 version. -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
> On Mon, 17 May 2004 16:30:00 -0700, Philip J. Koenig <See_email_@ddress_below.This_one_is.invalid> wrote: > > My personal hypothesis is that most of the people with Opera stability > > problems are running some variant of Windows 9.x (95/98/Me)
> > If true, those people need to wakeup and realize that:
> > 1) None of those versions are supported any more by Microsoft, and of > > the one that might be (WinMe, just barely) many software and hardware > > vendors thought it so problematic that they won't support it even > > when they'll still support Win98.
> And some people need to wake up and realise that:
> 1) Older machines don't have the speed or memory to run the latest > versions of Windows.
> 2) Expanding those older machines is difficult and expensive: few > retailers bother to sell memory for last century's hardware and > there's only so far a CPU can be pushed in an old motherboard.
> 3) Once you get into upgrading the critical parts of the hardware you > end up having to replace the entire box.
> I've been there: an old 16MB 100MHz machine that ran Opera 6.06 well > under Windows 95 but could never handle XP. I eventually managed to > track down a shop that still sold SIMMs and pushed the memory up to > 96MB (and also switched the OS to Linux) but to persuade the machine > to run XP I'd have had to replace the motherboard, the CPU, the power > supply, almost all my additional cards (most of which are for ISA > slots, which aren't a feature of many modern motherboards), add a new > disk, and replace my existing memory. The only parts I could have > kept would have been the case and the power cord. That's a lot of > money and work just to cut down the number of occasional crashes.
> The fact is, Opera on Windows 9x is a great way to make an old machine > into a cheap and useful internet workstation. I hope Opera continues > to support these systems for as long as possible.
Beautiful comment. Here I have 550 MHZ, 512 MB system. Opera 6.05 on Win 98 is fast as blazes. In fact this machine positively rips. :D
> > 2) Any version of Win9x is massively more unstable than Win2K or WinXP > > and simply switching OS's would likely result in a substantial > > improvement in stability overall.
> I'd say "slightly", not "massively".
I would say significantly.
I've found XP crashes less often
> than 95 but it's still not sufficiently reliable that I'd trust it for > any critical operation.
Wow, that bad eh? -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
> In article <slrncajh7k.11m6...@snoopy.sheridan.co.uk>, o...@matthewwinn.me.urk > (Matthew Winn) writes...
> I don't dispute that, but it's also highly unrealistic to expect a > software vendor to support an operating system that is 9 years old > and which has long since ceased to be supported by its vendor.
Win98 is 9 years old?! Gee it only has 50 million users minimum.
Among
> various other things, you cannot get help from Microsoft to solve > software compatibility issues any more.
> I think those who are running old systems should be grateful that > Opera still makes available its older products (5.x, 6.x, etc.) so > those people still have a nice option for older computers.
Oh really, we should be GRATEFUL that Opera BOTHERS to make a version for 50 f_____g MILLION Win 98 users? Are you nuts? -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
> Philip J. Koenig <See_email_@ddress_below.This_one_is.invalid> wrote:
> >but it's also highly unrealistic to expect a > >software vendor to support an operating system that is 9 years old
> Nonsense, a disproportionally large number of Opera users use W9x. Opera > always has been and still is the only modern browser suited for not the > latest and greatest hardware. Opera's market share in for example Russia > illustrates that.
What is their market share in Russia? Great comment, S. And by the way, exactly HOW many Russian comp users can afford a comp that can run Win 2K/XP decently? -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
> >A pity so many Russians don't have credit cards though...
> It probably wouldn't increase Russian registrations much, but there > really should be an option for private users who don't have a credit > card to pay for Opera.
Money order? -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
On Thu, 27 May 2004 21:57:33 -0700, Anti-imperialist <n...@imperialism.not> wrote:
> "Philip J. Koenig" wrote:
>> In article <slrncajh7k.11m6...@snoopy.sheridan.co.uk>, >> o...@matthewwinn.me.urk >> (Matthew Winn) writes...
>> I don't dispute that, but it's also highly unrealistic to expect a >> software vendor to support an operating system that is 9 years old >> and which has long since ceased to be supported by its vendor.
> Win98 is 9 years old?! Gee it only has 50 million users minimum.
No, the OS which is 9 years old and still supported by Opera is Windows 95.
> Oh really, we should be GRATEFUL that Opera BOTHERS to make a version > for 50 f_____g MILLION Win 98 users? Are you nuts?
So you think that Opera should ignore all problems with systems older than ME/2000 then? The fact that Opera bothers to maintain compatibility means that users of such systems can actually use a modern browser.
> "Anti-imperialist" <n...@imperialism.not> wrote in message > news:409F08D2.AC2C628D@imperialism.not... > > I've been making > > > notes, trying to figure out just what triggers the crash/hang planning > to > > > try reporting again.
> > Is it certain pages?
> I'd thought so for a while, and maybe it is, but since I visit a certain > number of pages frequently (Yahoo news, IMDb, etc.) random chance favors > that it's going to happen on those pages anyway. Still, it *feels* like > it's just about as likely to happen (hang or crash) on any given page. What > *does* seem to contribute is if I let the system sit for a long time, say > while reading a long article, then jump through a couple of pages quickly. > It seems to often hang up on the second or third page. I also have a > tendency to anticipate where I'm going to have to click on the page coming > up and move the mouse while the page is loading. Again, it's just a > feeling, but I'd swear (and I mean obscenity here) that doing so while it's > loading a page makes it more likely to happen.
Bill, try upgrading to Direct X 9. I was way back on Direct X 6. It SOLVED my lockup problem. -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
> On Sun, 09 May 2004 04:05:50 -0700, Anti-imperialist > <n...@imperialism.not> wrote:> > ... > > > > The bottom line, I hated it.
> > > How come?
> > Hardlocks system within 5 seconds of opening?
> You mean that it freezes Windows completely so you have to reboot? As > mentioned by others here, you should probably check your drivers.
Well I updated from Direct X 6 to DX 9 and it TOTALLY SOLVED the lockup Opera problem with O 6.05. However, O 7.5b still hardlocked the system totally. I have not gotten around to installing the drivers yet but they are downloaded.>
> ... > > > Certainly, but for what purpose? We see that more and more people > > > start using Opera, and the feedback is great. Unless you can be more > > > specific about your problems, your message doesn't really serve any > > > useful purpose.
> > We have been specific about our problems and all you do is ignore us.
> "You" being Opera Software? These newsgroups are a user community, and > we mostly read and post here on a voluntary basis. You cannot really > expect or demand a reply here, unfortunately.
No one ever made any bug reporting mechanism available to me. And now that I noted how I solved the problem, I doubt one person at OS will take note of that and advise other O users with similar problems of the possible fix.
> > I have been complaining about the hardlock problem for years and you > > accuse me of hallucination.
> Really? When did that happen?
I was told endlessly:
Opera works great on my system bla bla bla bla. That's really no help..... -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
> If Opera didn't simply let me select "Diamond Stealth II S540 for Windows > 98", right click and choose "search" I probably wouldn't have > bothered......
Nice guy..........X:( -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
> On Sun, 09 May 2004 21:10:47 -0700, Anti-imperialist > <n...@imperialism.not> appears to have said:
> >> On 9 May 2004 21:21:01 GMT, Jonathan A. <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >>> First thing I'd suspect is graphics...
> > Certain pages are "deadly". PARTICULARLY PAGES WITH A GREAT DEAL OF > > GRAPHICS, HEAVY GRAPHICS, LARGE PHOTOS. :)
> I'll bet it is the video card/drivers, then.
Thank you very much, but I solved the O 6.05 hardlock problem by updating Direct X 6 to DX 9. You may wish to take note, cuz you're one of the only ppl on here who wants to help O users with problems.
> >>> Something about Opera may well trigger a bug in the graphics > >>> drivers, etc.
> > Apparently this may indeed be the precise problem. In my years on this > > board, you are the first person to hit that nail. :)
> I've seen it over and over on various PC's. Some app seems to be hell > bent on destruction, when all along it was just "touching" a piece of > hardware in a "sensitive spot" due to some bug in the drivers or even > the hardware itself.
> > Andrew Gregory wrote:
> >> If your drivers (especially video driver) aren't the latest, update them. > >> If they *are* the latest, then try *downgrading* them. Video manufacturers > >> especially are notorious for slipping in one optimization too many in the > >> pursuit of performance, with a corresponding drop in stability.
> Agreed. Also, I've found that just setting the 2D acceleration down a > notch can clear things up. It's a workaround rather than a fix, but it > could help.
I did go and grab that driver thx. Now I need to install the biotch.
> There are some newer drivers there, and a very interesting note about > the S540 and lockups. Is your machine a Compaq?
No it is not. However, reading thru the reviews, I note that this card has lockup problems on many systems. :( Anyway, it is still hardlocking O 7.5b but I have not installed the drivers yet.
Might be you need to
> flash the BIOS on that thing to clear up the freezes.
Ur cool!!! -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
> In article <409F00C7.25F0A...@imperialism.not>, n...@imperialism.not (Anti- > imperialist) writes... > > Andrew Gregory wrote:
> > > On 9 May 2004 21:21:01 GMT, Jonathan A. <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > > > That's what I was thinking as I read this thread this morning. If > > > > "hardlocking" means a frozen mouse and unresponsive keyboard, with > > > > nothing left to do but hit the reset button, it's just about got to > > > > be a hardware related problem.
> > > > First thing I'd suspect is graphics...
> > Certain pages are "deadly". PARTICULARLY PAGES WITH A GREAT DEAL OF > > GRAPHICS, HEAVY GRAPHICS, LARGE PHOTOS. :)
> That sounds like the old graphic memory-leak issue.
Thx man I fixed it by upgrading Direct X 6x to DX 9. You may wish to take note for others with similar problems....
> What OS are you running and how much memory is installed?
Win98, 512 MB
> What are your pagefile settings - do you have free disk space?
Yes Windows will not let me set my own anymore, it demands to do it itself. Yes there is lots of free disk space - 2 GB.
> What are Opera's memory and cache settings set to?
> S3 graphics is out of business and so is Diamond. In other words, > even if there were a problem with those drivers, it would never > get fixed.
Correct.
> (Someone recently bought the rights to those old products from > Diamond, but they are not updating the drivers. The latest > drivers for your card are actually a little newer than what > you are currently using, but they are still FIVE YEARS OLD.)
Thank you! I like you! -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
> On Sat, 08 May 2004 15:41:21 -0500, <gary...@SPAMFREE.com> wrote:
> > I also agree with what you said in another message. Opera 5 was > > stable, 6 started to become unstable, and 7 was crash city. The same > > thing about the bloating. Just like MS did to MS Word. I wont even > > touch the newer versions of Word. Way too many features. I got one > > from 96 or 97 installed.
> I think I see symptoms of nostalgia/memory fade. Opera 5.12 wasn't > particularly stable compared to O6 - It was stable relative to IE, but > that's not saying much. > The one superbly stable version of Opera prior to 7.2 was 3.62 > Besides, if you needed to upload files, you couldn't use 5.12, but had to > revert to 5.11, which had its own critical bugs which were fixed in 5.12.
Well accuse away but his experience mirrors mine precisely.
Opera 5.12 was one of the ultimately greatest browsers *ever made*, bar none! That thing was a workhorse, it was fast as blazes, and it could open an incredible number of pages at once. I would have like 20 graphics heavy pages open at once, and I would go click a link in each one, then page thru O to watch each of the 20 pages racing to open. It was just stupefying - like something out of a sci-fi movie. Plus it was pretty stable, and I was incredibly light. Even with the load above, O hardly seemed to suck the system at all. My jaw still drops open when I think of that browser. -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
>> On Sun, 09 May 2004 04:05:50 -0700, Anti-imperialist >> <n...@imperialism.not> wrote:> >> ... >> > > > The bottom line, I hated it.
>> > > How come?
>> > Hardlocks system within 5 seconds of opening?
>> You mean that it freezes Windows completely so you have to reboot? As >> mentioned by others here, you should probably check your drivers.
> Well I updated from Direct X 6 to DX 9 and it TOTALLY SOLVED the lockup > Opera problem with O 6.05. However, O 7.5b still hardlocked the system > totally. I have not gotten around to installing the drivers yet but > they are downloaded.> >> ... >> > > Certainly, but for what purpose? We see that more and more people >> > > start using Opera, and the feedback is great. Unless you can be more >> > > specific about your problems, your message doesn't really serve any >> > > useful purpose.
>> > We have been specific about our problems and all you do is ignore us.
>> "You" being Opera Software? These newsgroups are a user community, and >> we mostly read and post here on a voluntary basis. You cannot really >> expect or demand a reply here, unfortunately.
> No one ever made any bug reporting mechanism available to me.
Of course they did! No doubt if you had problems you've visited http://www.opera.com/support/ , and bug reporting is linked prominently from there. -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
I haven't been in Russia for two years or so, but the problem isn't with decent computers really. Just about anyone who buys a computer buys a decent one. Others don't buy computers at all. Software is another story. AFAIR, if you are really really honest and all, you could get an absolutely legal OEM version of Windows XP for about $70, and Office XP for $120 or so if you don't mind localized versions (which I always did). If you're not all that honest, you can get a CD with everything you may want including Windows, Office, all kinds of firewalls and AV software and even the latest version of Opera for something like $2.50 just about anywhere. Then if you want to buy Opera you go to a bank and pay about $50 annual fee to get a VISA card and buy Opera for another $40, or pay $40 for a wire transfer. Sounds like a deal, doesn't it?
Now, if you are a business, you may get in trouble for using pirated software. If you are an individual, hehe.
And come on, hardware is the least of people's worries. Opera has a high share because people don't pay for it, so price is not an issue when they choose which browser/e-mail client to use. They just use what they like.
> Bill, try upgrading to Direct X 9. I was way back on Direct X 6. It > SOLVED my lockup problem.
I thought I had, but I'll check.
By the way, I've upgraded Opera to 7.50 and the hardlock frequency had dropped dramatically. And the trigger has become clear. If I move the mouse while a page is loading, or something on the page is auto-realoading, sometimes it locks up.
> "Anti-imperialist" <n...@imperialism.not> wrote in message > news:40B6CF57.C4536AD0@imperialism.not... > > Bill, try upgrading to Direct X 9. I was way back on Direct X 6. It > > SOLVED my lockup problem.
> I thought I had, but I'll check.
> By the way, I've upgraded Opera to 7.50 and the hardlock frequency had > dropped dramatically. And the trigger has become clear. If I move the > mouse while a page is loading, or something on the page is auto-realoading, > sometimes it locks up.
This was precisely my problem. More precisely, I would try to scroll up or down a page as it was loading. Lockup!
Interestingly, I just tried to load 7.5b and it instantly hardlocked the whole darn machine. :(
Did you try turning down hardware acceleration? It's a lame fix but it often works. -- Some of my favorite people: Amos Elon, Noam Chomsky, Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Tony Judt, Adam Engel, Meron Benevisti, Abraham Weizfeld, Dror Feiler, Jeff Blankfort, Dennis Bernstein, Amy Goodman, Ran HaCohen, Uri Avnery, Michael Neumann, Edward Herman and Lenni Brenner.
>>>Bill, try upgrading to Direct X 9. I was way back on Direct X 6. It >>>SOLVED my lockup problem.
>>I thought I had, but I'll check.
>>By the way, I've upgraded Opera to 7.50 and the hardlock frequency had >>dropped dramatically. And the trigger has become clear. If I move the >>mouse while a page is loading, or something on the page is auto-realoading, >>sometimes it locks up.
> This was precisely my problem. More precisely, I would try to scroll up > or down a page as it was loading. Lockup!
> Interestingly, I just tried to load 7.5b and it instantly hardlocked the > whole darn machine. :(
> Did you try turning down hardware acceleration? It's a lame fix but it > often works.
You've got incorrect/bad hardware drivers, marginal/defective hardware or, at the very least, a very bad combination of junk.
Through the years, my company has installed Opera on literally hundreds of machines running every MS O/S & several Linux flavors in virtually every configuration imaginable, and we've never seen 'hardlocks' due to Opera like you keep whining over.
I can appreciate your frustration, but at what point do you get professional help for your machine? Hell, give me your machine for a day. I guarantee we'll find the problem. No pc problem takes 2 years.
My advice would be live with it, have someone fix it for you, or simply keep quiet.
-- -Gandalf
-Never meddle in the affairs of a dragon for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup-
> > "Anti-imperialist" <n...@imperialism.not> wrote in message > > news:40B6CF57.C4536AD0@imperialism.not... > > > Bill, try upgrading to Direct X 9. I was way back on Direct X 6. It > > > SOLVED my lockup problem.
> > I thought I had, but I'll check.
> > By the way, I've upgraded Opera to 7.50 and the hardlock frequency had > > dropped dramatically. And the trigger has become clear. If I move the > > mouse while a page is loading, or something on the page is auto-realoading, > > sometimes it locks up.
> This was precisely my problem. More precisely, I would try to scroll up > or down a page as it was loading. Lockup!
I should have said "perform a mouse action" rather than "move the mouse." Yes, a scroll (move the scroll wheel) while loading will do it too.
> Interestingly, I just tried to load 7.5b and it instantly hardlocked the > whole darn machine. :(
7.50 improved things here. There's a 7.5b ?
> Did you try turning down hardware acceleration? It's a lame fix but it > often works.
While trying to debug the previous version; yes. I didn't notice that it helped any.
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