Opera and Popularity
Aaron W. Hsu
So, Opera's mobile software is very popular, and has a large market.
However, Opera's flagship Desktop product doesn't ever seem to gain the
market share that it deserves. Why is that? Opera is a wonderful browser,
with all the right features, not much bloat, clean interfaces, lots of
customizability, standards-compliance, and fast. Is there something I'm
missing in this mix?
Some people will say that the browser doesn't open all the pages in the
right way. Well, that was a problem for some other browsers too, but now,
because more people use these browsers, people care to make sure they work
on them. That's the only reason why Opera's doesn't work as often: people
care about making it work on the other browsers more; and, they do that
because there are more people using the other browsers.
Some people mention extensibility, but Opera is quite extensible, and
while it doesn't have every plugin out there for Firefox, it does seem to
have enough to satisfy the developers and power users that I have seen. At
least, if it doesn't have the feature, you can get it.
So, what gives? Is this just marketing? Do we need to get better word of
mouth out there?
Aaron W. Hsu
--
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its
victims may be the most oppressive. -- C. S. Lewis
OPERA
When you can't open a page, it all stops right there.
Functionality first - design second.
Most of us enthusiasts that kind of live online can put up with the glitches and we always have
Firefox and IE or whatever as a second browser waiting to step up to the plate when Opera can't
display a webpage. Which seems to be more often now than a year ago but it was never very good.
Its always been Opera's weak point. Most people can't bear the thought of using more than one
browser. That's why its never caught on.
Also, another thing they could do would be to have Firefox, Chrome, IE skins. Just the cosmetics so
it looks like those browsers with all their shortcuts/commands, but is really Opera underneath. Its
absolutely moronic for a new program to use new shortcuts for the same things we've been doing for
years with the old shortcuts. Yet software designers make this mistake time and time again. Guess
its called "design ego".
Opera also has a piss poor help section. Their knowledge base could be much better. It should be
divided strictly by operating system. You have to constantly tell them your OS with every query.
This is retarded. It should default to Windows since that is 92% of the market, but also have Mac
and Linux specific knowledge bases. When I'm on a Mac (in a temporary moment of rationality loss) I
really don't want to see Windows and Linux help info and don't want to see keyboard shortcuts for
Windows and Linux. Keep things very specific and organized so we don't have to look through 3
times as much data to find what we need.
Opera should put together competent and clear help videos on Youtube. This would show its
capabilities far better than hoping a user will discover features by chance.
Guess they really don't understand much in the way of marketing. Maybe they don't have the budget.
ge...@none.net
"OPERA" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Maybe, just maybe, people get tired of using a browser that simply
> doesn't open some pages AT ALL! When you can't open a page, it all
> stops right there. Functionality first - design second.
For someone who claims they can't open pages with Opera, but who as
not yet been willing post any examples, you sure do at lot of yelling.
Like you're trolling.
FYI, I come across pages with fair frequency that either don't open or
are blank in Opera, and when I click on "InIE" or "InFF," they are just
as blank or inoperative with them too. OTOH, if a site's programmers
don't want Opera users, and there are still some of those, then there's
not much that can be done except to let Opera know and complain to the
site's honchos.
Gene
Morgan
<snip>
> FYI, I come across pages with fair frequency that either don't open or
> are blank in Opera, and when I click on "InIE" or "InFF," they are just
> as blank or inoperative with them too. OTOH, if a site's programmers
> don't want Opera users, and there are still some of those, then there's
> not much that can be done except to let Opera know and complain to the
> site's honchos.
>
> Gene
You mention clicking on InIE and InFF -- are these something in Opera
to make it easier to open a page in one of the other browsers? I did a
quick run through the menus and didn't see anything like this. It'd be
handy for those times when some "helpful" web designer decided to use
sniffing to exclude everything but the Big Two.
Lorena /|\
Ed Jay
Try right clicking on a page. You should context menu entries for Open in
IE/FF.
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to reply by email)
Win the War Against Breast Cancer.
Knowing the facts could save your life.
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Ken Knox
wrote:
See info at:
http://operawiki.info/CustomButtons
down near the bottom of the page.
--
Ken Knox
Opera 10.00.1750
OPERA
>> doesn't open some pages AT ALL! When you can't open a page, it all
>> stops right there. Functionality first - design second.
>
> For someone who claims they can't open pages with Opera, but who as
> not yet been willing post any examples, you sure do at lot of yelling.
> Like you're trolling.
Don't mean to yell - shouldn't have used the caps. Just trying to emphasize those words.
Because if you can't open the page, nothing else matters.
> FYI, I come across pages with fair frequency that either don't open or
> are blank in Opera, and when I click on "InIE" or "InFF," they are just
> as blank or inoperative with them too.
Yes - me too. But a lot do open in Firefox and IE (not that I ever use IE).
> OTOH, if a site's programmers
> don't want Opera users, and there are still some of those, then there's
> not much that can be done except to let Opera know and complain to the
> site's honchos.
Yes - Michael gave a good rundown on that. If they purposely sabotage it -
what can you do? But I doubt that many that are not working have been
purposely sabotages. But what do I know? Nothing! LOL!
Naruki Bigglesworth
>>> Maybe, just maybe, people get tired of using a browser that simply
>>> doesn't open some pages AT ALL! When you can't open a page, it all
>>> stops right there. Functionality first - design second.
>>
>> For someone who claims they can't open pages with Opera, but who as
>> not yet been willing post any examples, you sure do at lot of yelling.
>> Like you're trolling.
>
> Don't mean to yell - shouldn't have used the caps. Just trying to emphasize those words.
> Because if you can't open the page, nothing else matters.
>
Give us a URL or stop complaining.
We can't read your mind, so if you refuse to tell us which pages don't open "AT ALL", you are
just being a PITA by complaining.
OPERA
Fair enough. http://snotr.com Doesn't even open.
This used to work perfectly in Opera. Works fine in Firefox.
David W. Hodgins
> Fair enough. http://snotr.com Doesn't even open.
> This used to work perfectly in Opera. Works fine in Firefox.
Just watched the cat playing with the mouse. Works fine here using
opera 10.10, build 4694 with linux gcc4/qt4 version and flash-plugin
version 10.0.32.18.
Any sites listed in Tools/Advanced/Blocked Content? Is javascript
enabled? My guess is a blocked stylesheet or script.
Regards, Dave Hodgins
--
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)
Andrew Gregory
> Fair enough. http://snotr.com Doesn't even open. This used to work
> perfectly in Opera. Works fine in Firefox.
Works fine for me too. 10.01 (build 1844) win xp, flash 10.0.32.18.
--
Andrew
Aaron W. Hsu
Likewise, on Linux x86_64 Opera 10.10 Beta 4694, it's working just fine.
tagboy
>
> Fair enough. http://snotr.com Doesn't even open. This used to work
> perfectly in Opera. Works fine in Firefox.
Works fine here too. 10.01 1844 XP SP3
Ondřej Morávek
Work fine too Opera 10.10 Beta 1857, Windows 7.
OPERA
>> This used to work perfectly in Opera. Works fine in Firefox.
>
> Just watched the cat playing with the mouse. Works fine here using
> opera 10.10, build 4694 with linux gcc4/qt4 version and flash-plugin
> version 10.0.32.18.
>
> Any sites listed in Tools/Advanced/Blocked Content? Is javascript
> enabled? My guess is a blocked stylesheet or script.
JS is enabled. Don't know where "Tools/Advanced/Blocked Content" is.
In XP there is Tools, Preferences, Advanced, Content, Javascript Options - here I have all checked
except Open Console on Error. Is that good for compatability?
In Style Options, Display all are checked except Show Active Frame Border.
In Presentation Modes, Author mode (which I'm using) all are checked except My Fonts & Colors.
Advice is sought here as very few Opera users understand what these settings control.
Brixomatic
> >>>> Maybe, just maybe, people get tired of using a browser that simply
> >>>> doesn't open some pages AT ALL! When you can't open a page, it all
> >>>> stops right there. Functionality first - design second.
> > Give us a URL or stop complaining.
> Fair enough. http://snotr.com Doesn't even open.
Works like a charm with Opera 10.01 on Windows 2000 Professional.
Where is the problem?
Regards,
-Wanja-
--
"Gewisse Schriftsteller sagen von ihren Werken immer: 'Mein Buch, mein
Kommentar, meine Geschichte'. [..] Es wï¿œre besser, wenn sie sagten:
'unser Buch, unser Kommentar, unsere Geschichte'; wenn man bedenkt, dass
das Gute darin mehr von anderen ist als von ihnen." [Blaise Pascal]
Rijk van Geijtenbeek
>>> Fair enough. http://snotr.com Doesn't even open.
Please define "doesn't open". You mean the page area stays completely
blank? Is there some progress shown while the page loads? Etc.
>>> This used to work perfectly in Opera. Works fine in Firefox.
>>
>> Just watched the cat playing with the mouse. Works fine here using
>> opera 10.10, build 4694 with linux gcc4/qt4 version and flash-plugin
>> version 10.0.32.18.
>>
>> Any sites listed in Tools/Advanced/Blocked Content? Is javascript
>> enabled? My guess is a blocked stylesheet or script.
>
> JS is enabled. Don't know where "Tools/Advanced/Blocked Content" is.
Right were it says... There is a submenu 'Advanced' in the Tools menu. You
can also access it from the Preferences dialog, same screen as were you
found the JavaScript options...
> In XP there is Tools, Preferences, Advanced, Content, Javascript Options
> - here I have all checked except Open Console on Error. Is that good
> for compatability?
Fine. So nothing is entered in the 'User JavaScript files' text field?
That's good.
> In Style Options, Display all are checked except Show Active Frame
> Border.
> In Presentation Modes, Author mode (which I'm using) all are checked
> except My Fonts & Colors.
Those are all default, also fine.
> Advice is sought here as very few Opera users understand what these
> settings control.
--
Rijk van Geijtenbeek
Opera Software ASA
Tweak: http://my.opera.com/Rijk/blog/
"The most common way to get usability wrong is to listen to what users
say rather than actually watching what they do." - J.Nielsen
OPERA
>
> Please define "doesn't open". You mean the page area stays completely
> blank? Is there some progress shown while the page loads? Etc.
I've tried, per other's suggestions to Identify and mask as another browser
but nothing helps. The page is blank. (I just Deleted Private Data.)
After it gives up it says:
------------
Error!
Connection closed by remote server
You tried to access the address http://snotr.com/, which is currently
unavailable. Please make sure that the Web address (URL) is correctly
spelled and punctuated, then try reloading the page.
Make sure your Internet connection is active and check whether other
applications that rely on the same connection are working
------------
I need to try a previous version of Opera because before I upgraded to 10 it
worked perfectly. (Its a great video site - and no I'm not involved with
it. Wish I was.)
Here's another video site that initially works and plays videos ok.
http://www.veoh.com/collection/s14860/watch/e41596
But try a link of another video clip on the right. Nothing happens. The
mouse pointer doesn't change to a hand. When I right click it the correct
drop down menu appears and it opens fine.
I notice this happens more and more. The mouse just doesn't seem to be
activated with the URL hyperlink. Can't remember if this happened ever in
version 9. Sure didn't happen often if it ever did. Not like 10.
>>>> This used to work perfectly in Opera. Works fine in Firefox.
>>>
>>> Just watched the cat playing with the mouse. Works fine here using
>>> opera 10.10, build 4694 with linux gcc4/qt4 version and flash-plugin
>>> version 10.0.32.18.
>>>
>>> Any sites listed in Tools/Advanced/Blocked Content? Is javascript
>>> enabled? My guess is a blocked stylesheet or script.
>>
>> JS is enabled. Don't know where "Tools/Advanced/Blocked Content" is.
>
> Right were it says... There is a submenu 'Advanced' in the Tools menu. You
> can also access it from the Preferences dialog, same screen as were you
> found the JavaScript options...
>
>> In XP there is Tools, Preferences, Advanced, Content, Javascript
OPERA
>>> Just watched the cat playing with the mouse. Works fine here using
>>> opera 10.10, build 4694 with linux gcc4/qt4 version and flash-plugin
>>> version 10.0.32.18.
>>>
>>> Any sites listed in Tools/Advanced/Blocked Content? Is javascript
>>> enabled? My guess is a blocked stylesheet or script.
>>
>> JS is enabled. Don't know where "Tools/Advanced/Blocked Content" is.
>
> Right were it says... There is a submenu 'Advanced' in the Tools menu. You
> can also access it from the Preferences dialog, same screen as were you
> found the JavaScript options...
Got it. Sorry - missed that before.
>> In XP there is Tools, Preferences, Advanced, Content, Javascript
>> ptions - here I have all checked except Open Console on Error. Is that
>> good for compatability?
>
> Fine. So nothing is entered in the 'User JavaScript files' text field?
> That's good.
Nope.
Adrienne Boswell
writing in news:kyIJm.7706$Xf2...@newsfe12.iad:
> I've tried, per other's suggestions to Identify and mask as another
> browser but nothing helps. The page is blank. (I just Deleted
> Private Data.) After it gives up it says:
> ------------
> Error!
> Connection closed by remote server
>
> You tried to access the address http://snotr.com/, which is currently
> unavailable. Please make sure that the Web address (URL) is correctly
> spelled and punctuated, then try reloading the page.
> Make sure your Internet connection is active and check whether other
> applications that rely on the same connection are working
> ------------
> I need to try a previous version of Opera because before I upgraded to
> 10 it worked perfectly. (Its a great video site - and no I'm not
> involved with it. Wish I was.)
>
> Here's another video site that initially works and plays videos ok.
> http://www.veoh.com/collection/s14860/watch/e41596
> But try a link of another video clip on the right. Nothing happens.
> The mouse pointer doesn't change to a hand. When I right click it the
> correct drop down menu appears and it opens fine.
>
Both sites worked fine for me 10.01 WinXP Pro SP3.
--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share
Aaron W. Hsu
> Error!
> Connection closed by remote server
> You tried to access the address http://snotr.com/, which is currently
> unavailable. Please make sure that the Web address (URL) is correctly
> spelled and punctuated, then try reloading the page.
> Make sure your Internet connection is active and check whether other
> applications that rely on the same connection are working
Maybe you mentioned this the first time you brought this problem up, but
the degree and frequency of website problems you have, in addition to the
nature of this particular problem, indicates to me that you may have
connection issues, more than browser issues. In other words, Opera can't
even get the site data to display, so why would it be able to display
anything? If you have this problem only on Opera, the it could be
something related to your connection settings in Opera. Check to make sure
that you are not using any proxies, or that Opera doesn't think you are
using any proxies. Please provide us with information about your network
connection and the software you use which has any effect on it, such as
malware, downloaders, splicers, firewalls, proxies, and the like.
David W. Hodgins
>>> JS is enabled. Don't know where "Tools/Advanced/Blocked Content" is.
>>
>> Right were it says... There is a submenu 'Advanced' in the Tools menu. You
>> can also access it from the Preferences dialog, same screen as were you
>> found the JavaScript options...
>
> Got it. Sorry - missed that before.
Were there any entries there?
Given that your system is having problems with the pages loading, that no
one else seems to be having, parts of the sites must be being blocked either
by opera's content blocking, or a proxy such as privoxy.
The mouse problems are likely due to either having mouse gestures, or flipping
turned on. Don't use those, unless you know how they work, and want that
result. I don't currently believe any of the problems you've reported so far
are caused by opera.
ge...@none.net
"OPERA" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> You tried to access the address http://snotr.com/, which is currently
> unavailable. Please make sure that the Web address (URL) is correctly
>
> Here's another video site that initially works and plays videos ok.
> http://www.veoh.com/collection/s14860/watch/e41596
OPERA, One thing I learned early on using the Internet is that a
problem I'm having may be the result of something wrong or a setting on
*my* computer, so I better control my frustration and look around
patiently. Ask first, verify with similar programs and other computers,
if possible, and then be specific about the sits and issues involved.
Complaint or accusation is rarely helpful, and certainly not as a
starting point.
Btw, I had no problem with those sites with the latest 10.10 build.
Gene