Opera support
Sanford Aranoff
still active, or do we have to move to FF?
Ken Knox
Which people are you referring to? This is a "user" newsgroup. There are
some Opera people who frequent these newsgroups, but they do it on their
own time and of their own volition, so it's not really surprising that
from late afternoon on Friday until now you haven't seen a reply.
I didn't have the problem you mentioned when I installed 10.10, so am not
sure I can be of help.
--
Ken Knox
Opera 10.01.1844
Carl
> still active, or do we have to move to FF?
You might get a better response with more info. The OP is a bit terse.
You were able to reinstall an earlier version and that runs OK? I might
try a fresh download for a start. If that does not work you could
uninstall the earlier version first and do a clean install.
Sanford Aranoff
I would like to keep my settings. Which files do I need to
save? Yes, I can try uninstalling and reinstalling, or
reinstalling into another directory.
Carl
opera:about will show you your paths. Copy over what applies to you.
When I copy settings I just copy over everything in the Opera directory
and everything in the Mail directory. If you have not set up M2 mail yet,
don't worry about that one.
Sanford Aranoff
I reinstalled Opera 9.6. The toolbar is the same as before,
but some just show the star, not the icon. I have old
settings on an external hard drive. How can I get my icons
back? Toolbar.ini seems the same. Why are some icons there
and not others?
Sanford Aranoff
>
>
> I reinstalled Opera 9.6. The toolbar is the same as before,
> but some just show the star, not the icon. I have old
> settings on an external hard drive. How can I get my icons
> back? Toolbar.ini seems the same. Why are some icons there
> and not others?
Did it.
Appearance | Panels | Check Windows. ^Shift drag from the
Window.
Can now Appearance | Panels | Uncheck Windows
Not mentioned in Help.
I wrote this in my EmailDatabase 9/23/2009, and searched for
Toolbars.
EmailDatabase is on www.analysis-knowledge.com.
Carl
Dunno. I suppose those icon files are missing. If your toolbar is now
the only problem, right click the toolbar, Customize/Appearance/Skin,
download your old skin, or a new one. Maybe that will restore your
icons. You could experiment with Toolbar/Style settings and see what is
working and what is not.
If you still have problems and no one more expert pipes up, if it were me
and I had the application data folders saved from a known good
installation, I'd uninstall what I had, delete or rename anything
remaining, install 10.10 clean, make sure it works, then copy over what I
wanted from the earlier configuration.
Whoosh
You and everybody else. You'd think they would put the settings in a folder called C:\Settings\Opera. But that would be far too logical for the computing world. You'd think they would put browsers in a folder called C:\Programs\Browsers so they are grouped together. Too logical. Never let a computer geek do any filing for you. You'll never find anything afterward with their warped sense of spatial discernment.
Naruki Bigglesworth
The settings thing is done like that, but they insert user name as a path so your settings are
not overwritten by your mother's.
The program thing would not even be feasible. Opera alone would break that rule by itself, as
it is not just a browser. And then think of all the categories you'd have to create for all the
zillions of things out there.
But Opera would be very well served if they had a backup/restore/import/export functionality.
Aaron W. Hsu
>But Opera would be very well served if they had a backup/restore/import/export functionality.
They do have that. You can export many of the features or other data
sets that are used by opera, and you can also easily back up your Opera
folder by moving it somewhere else. However, some people have their
settings and other things in all sorts of weird places, so it's not as
easy as it might seem at first. Still, it's almost too easy for the
person who hasn't done anything to make backing up Opera difficult. Just
Copy the folder to a new location: done. It's easy to reimport.
Aaron W. Hsu
--
A professor is one who talks in someone else's sleep.
Naruki Bigglesworth
They have it? Where?
Aaron W. Hsu
>They have it? Where?
Check File -> Import and Export.
Other than that opera:about shows where all your files are stored.
Normally there is one parent folder if you have followed the mainstream
practices. When I do a new installation for a client who can't afford to
lose data, I just copy that folder, and then it's done. You can then
import things from that folder, and copy back things selectively if you
wish. Opera Link also serves as a way of backup and restore.
Naruki Bigglesworth
> Naruki Bigglesworth <Nar...@nothankyou.com> writes:
>
>>On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:39:28 -0600, Aaron W. Hsu wrote:
>
>>> Naruki Bigglesworth <Nar...@nothankyou.com> writes:
>>>
>>>>But Opera would be very well served if they had a backup/restore/import/export functionality.
>>>
>>> They do have that. You can export many of the features or other data
>>> sets that are used by opera, and you can also easily back up your Opera
>>> folder by moving it somewhere else. However, some people have their
>>> settings and other things in all sorts of weird places, so it's not as
>>> easy as it might seem at first. Still, it's almost too easy for the
>>> person who hasn't done anything to make backing up Opera difficult. Just
>>> Copy the folder to a new location: done. It's easy to reimport.
>>>
>>> Aaron W. Hsu
>
>>They have it? Where?
>
> Check File -> Import and Export.
>
> Other than that opera:about shows where all your files are stored.
> Normally there is one parent folder if you have followed the mainstream
> practices. When I do a new installation for a client who can't afford to
> lose data, I just copy that folder, and then it's done. You can then
> import things from that folder, and copy back things selectively if you
> wish. Opera Link also serves as a way of backup and restore.
>
> Aaron W. Hsu
Hmm, so you meant I can save my bookmarks. It also allows me to save/load my browser sessions.
But what I want is more comprehensive.
As a browser/main program, I want a simple "export/import my settings" option.
As a mail program, I want to import/export mail, account settings, and mailer settings, all
separately from each other (as normal mail clients do).
As an RSS/newsreader/torrent client/etc, those settings may need a separate function or might
be bundled with the settings of one of the other options.
Now with Unite, there are a whole bunch more settings that could be saved (although arguably as
part of the browser/main program settings).
So, where is all of that? Because that is what people expect when they think about upgrading
Opera, changing OS, adding a second PC, etc.
Just look at how often people ask about putting their settings on a USB device and you'll see
why Opera is not very user friendly in this regard.
This is something Opera definitely needs to work on.
Aaron W. Hsu
>Hmm, so you meant I can save my bookmarks. It also allows me to save/load my browser sessions.
When i go to the export menu, I see exporting for contacts, feeds, and
bookmarsks.
>As a browser/main program, I want a simple "export/import my settings" option.
If you want to back up the whole program, you just copy the Opera
folder(s). In most configurations this is a single folder.
>As a mail program, I want to import/export mail, account settings, and mailer settings, all
>separately from each other (as normal mail clients do).
Most of the mail clients I use don't "export" settings to anything. You
can back up the settings folder, but that's not exporting it. You can do
that in Opera.
To export mail, what's wrong with right clicking on your filters or
other mailboxes and selecting "Export?" It exports it as a fairly
standard mbox format for import into other mail clients.
And why do you care to back them up separately from the main program?
Export mail, maybe, so that it can be imported elsewhere, but otherwise?
>As an RSS/newsreader/torrent client/etc, those settings may need a separate function or might
>be bundled with the settings of one of the other options.
You can export your feeds list easily enough. The newsreader is part of
mail, and torrent settings are just a few settings in the global Opera
settings. All can be backed up individually, or in whole.
>Now with Unite, there are a whole bunch more settings that could be saved (although arguably as
>part of the browser/main program settings).
Again, if you want to preserve the state of your browser, just back up
your Opera folder: it saves everything. You don't want to have to wade
through individual stuff when backing up your browser.
>So, where is all of that? Because that is what people expect when they think about upgrading
>Opera, changing OS, adding a second PC, etc.
To switch a different OS, upgrade, &c, I just copy my Opera folder over,
start Opera, and it's all there. Done.
>Just look at how often people ask about putting their settings on a USB device and you'll see
>why Opera is not very user friendly in this regard.
Putting your settings on a USB device is usually with the intent of
using Opera settings on a different machine that didn't previously have
their settings or maybe not even Opera. This is easily handled with
Opera Link and a non-root install (on systems like Linux). On Windows,
it might be harder. Mac and Linux can do it though.
>This is something Opera definitely needs to work on.
I've found Opera to be the most manageable suite in this regard barring
very few exceptions. Even when things don't go right, you can usually
manage to recover what is important. That recoverability can't be said
for other commonly used suites.
Naruki Bigglesworth
> Naruki Bigglesworth <Nar...@nothankyou.com> writes:
>
>>Hmm, so you meant I can save my bookmarks. It also allows me to save/load my browser sessions.
>
> When i go to the export menu, I see exporting for contacts, feeds, and
> bookmarsks.
>
>>As a browser/main program, I want a simple "export/import my settings" option.
>
> If you want to back up the whole program, you just copy the Opera
> folder(s). In most configurations this is a single folder.
Telling a user to go to the file system to do what should be available in the UI is a
workaround, not a proper solution. You have failed to be user friendly. And "just copy the
folder(s)" is especially bad. Most users don't know what they need to copy, and many don't even
know how to copy something.
>>As a mail program, I want to import/export mail, account settings, and mailer settings, all
>>separately from each other (as normal mail clients do).
>
> Most of the mail clients I use don't "export" settings to anything. You
> can back up the settings folder, but that's not exporting it. You can do
> that in Opera.
*Account* settings, but point taken. Adding that feature would make Opera BETTER than other
mail clients.
> To export mail, what's wrong with right clicking on your filters or
> other mailboxes and selecting "Export?" It exports it as a fairly
> standard mbox format for import into other mail clients.
Not a thing wrong with that as an extra. But not having that in the standard export menu is
bad.
> And why do you care to back them up separately from the main program?
> Export mail, maybe, so that it can be imported elsewhere, but otherwise?
Why would I want to import/export mailer settings separate from browser settings? Are you
kidding? I really think the answer is too obvious. Having an all-in-one option would be a nice
addition, but treating them individually is very important.
>>As an RSS/newsreader/torrent client/etc, those settings may need a separate function or might
>>be bundled with the settings of one of the other options.
>
> You can export your feeds list easily enough. The newsreader is part of
> mail, and torrent settings are just a few settings in the global Opera
> settings. All can be backed up individually, or in whole.
Opera's torrent settings, so far as I have been able to figure out, are atrocious. It's a dumb
client for dumb people (like me) who only want to "get the file" and not be bothered with any
other details. But power users would benefit from the large set of options a good torrent
client supports.
>>Now with Unite, there are a whole bunch more settings that could be saved (although arguably as
>>part of the browser/main program settings).
>
> Again, if you want to preserve the state of your browser, just back up
> your Opera folder: it saves everything. You don't want to have to wade
> through individual stuff when backing up your browser.
ABSOLUTELY NOT. That is a particularly clunky workaround to what should be part of the UI. You
simply do not tell users to "just copy everything".
>>So, where is all of that? Because that is what people expect when they think about upgrading
>>Opera, changing OS, adding a second PC, etc.
>
> To switch a different OS, upgrade, &c, I just copy my Opera folder over,
> start Opera, and it's all there. Done.
Bullshit. Please, waste someone else's time with such stupid answers. That is just insulting.
>>Just look at how often people ask about putting their settings on a USB device and you'll see
>>why Opera is not very user friendly in this regard.
>
> Putting your settings on a USB device is usually with the intent of
> using Opera settings on a different machine that didn't previously have
> their settings or maybe not even Opera. This is easily handled with
> Opera Link and a non-root install (on systems like Linux). On Windows,
> it might be harder. Mac and Linux can do it though.
Oh, you think that is the "usual" purpose? Even if it were (which I doubt), the fact that
"usual" is not "only" makes your argument pretty weak. The other thing is that you cite how
"simple" it is to do on non-Windows systems.
This just furthers support for my point: Opera's settings functionality needs to be
streamlined, simplified, and organised in such a way that I can transfer the maximum amount of
settings anywhere I want. "Just copy something" is not going to cut it.
>>This is something Opera definitely needs to work on.
>
> I've found Opera to be the most manageable suite in this regard barring
> very few exceptions. Even when things don't go right, you can usually
> manage to recover what is important. That recoverability can't be said
> for other commonly used suites.
>
> Aaron W. Hsu
Most manageable? There are no other web suites that I know of to compare it with.
I have never had to recover my email from a Firefox/IE crash. Nor my bookmarks from a
Thunderbird/Outlook crash. Etc. The reason is those apps have a specific focus.
If Opera wants to be a multi-featured web tool, it needs to stop dabbling and start treating
each function seriously.
I love Opera, and will continue to use it. But being an apologist for its flaws is not a way to
get them fixed. This thread is all about the settings issue in Opera. I am not saying other
browser+mailer+rss client+torrent client+web server applications are better. I am saying Opera
needs to improve.
So far, your arguments have not refuted that.
Aaron W. Hsu
>Telling a user to go to the file system to do what should be available
>in the UI is a workaround, not a proper solution. You have failed to be
>user friendly. And "just copy the folder(s)" is especially bad. Most
>users don't know what they need to copy, and many don't even know how
>to copy something.
If you don't know how to copy something, then you don't know how to use
a computer, and backing up is beyond you until you do learn at least
something as fundamental as copying.
Copying folders is a very standard backup technique. It's as user
friendly as you can get. You also don't have to use a CLI to copy
folders; you use the UI, which is your file manager, such as Explorer,
Finder, or Thunar. It is very easy to find out what to copy, and no more
difficult than exporting individual pieces.
>*Account* settings, but point taken. Adding that feature would make Opera BETTER than other
>mail clients.
There is no benefit to adding this, since it would add a needless
complexity with zero benefit. It's no easier than copying a folder.
>Not a thing wrong with that as an extra. But not having that in the
>standard export menu is bad.
You want the standard export menu to have every single filter in it?
Even if they were hidden in a dialog under a mail export option, you're
just going to see the same interface as the normal mail menu, so just
use the normal mail menu, which is more flexible, and has all the
functionality.
>Why would I want to import/export mailer settings separate from browser
>settings? Are you kidding? I really think the answer is too obvious.
>Having an all-in-one option would be a nice addition, but treating them
>individually is very important.
Anything that will be portable to other programs can be exported easily
enough, that I know of. What you seem to be suggesting is the ability to
export settings that forms only a subset of your browser settings that
can only be used by the browser. so to get your browser state back up to
where you had it, you'll just have to import more files. They're useless
outside of Opera, so what do you want?
Would you want to import just your mail settings back into opera without
any other settings? Is it really worth making the browser that much more
complex? It's useless for sharing settings between non-Opera programs.
>> Again, if you want to preserve the state of your browser, just back up
>> your Opera folder: it saves everything. You don't want to have to wade
>> through individual stuff when backing up your browser.
>ABSOLUTELY NOT. That is a particularly clunky workaround to what should
>be part of the UI. You simply do not tell users to "just copy
>everything".
How is a UI element better? There is very little benefit here and plenty
to lose. Making the browser more complex for almost zero gain doesn't
seem to make sense.
>> To switch a different OS, upgrade, &c, I just copy my Opera folder over,
>> start Opera, and it's all there. Done.
>Bullshit. Please, waste someone else's time with such stupid answers. That
>is just insulting.
I've done this plenty of times, and yes, it works fine. Do you have
something against using the programs that already exist on your
computer? Why should Opera now be a file manager?
>This just furthers support for my point: Opera's settings functionality
>needs to be streamlined, simplified, and organised in such a way that I
>can transfer the maximum amount of settings anywhere I want. "Just copy
>something" is not going to cut it.
But it does. There is always Opera Link. Copy the folder, run Opera, it
doesn't get easier than that. In fact, that's considered desirable
behavior on Mac OS X systems and UNIX machines. In Mac, doing things by
just drag and drop in the file system is considered a good thing. Mac is
also associated with user-friendliness.
>Most manageable? There are no other web suites that I know of to compare it with.
SeaMonkey.
>I love Opera, and will continue to use it. But being an apologist for
>its flaws is not a way to get them fixed. This thread is all about the
>settings issue in Opera. I am not saying other browser+mailer+rss
>client+torrent client+web server applications are better. I am saying
>Opera needs to improve.
>So far, your arguments have not refuted that.
Every program could improve. Improving the Opera settings system to make
it simpler would be nice, but adding an useless GUI element that adds
complexity and takes away development time from other more useful
features that are not possible to do easily through standard processes
doesn't make sense.
Naruki Bigglesworth
> Naruki Bigglesworth <Nar...@nothankyou.com> writes:
>
>>Telling a user to go to the file system to do what should be available
>>in the UI is a workaround, not a proper solution. You have failed to be
>>user friendly. And "just copy the folder(s)" is especially bad. Most
>>users don't know what they need to copy, and many don't even know how
>>to copy something.
>
> If you don't know how to copy something, then you don't know how to use
> a computer, and backing up is beyond you until you do learn at least
> something as fundamental as copying.
You are being an arrogant idiot. I know how to do those things, but I do not automatically
assume others are inferior beings because they don't.
> Copying folders is a very standard backup technique. It's as user
> friendly as you can get.
NO, it is NOT as user friendly as you can get. I know you aren't this stupid because I've seen
your other comments. You are a smart person. So what the hell is your problem here? Why are you
being so retarded?
> You also don't have to use a CLI to copy
> folders; you use the UI, which is your file manager, such as Explorer,
> Finder, or Thunar. It is very easy to find out what to copy, and no more
> difficult than exporting individual pieces.
>
>>*Account* settings, but point taken. Adding that feature would make Opera BETTER than other
>>mail clients.
>
> There is no benefit to adding this, since it would add a needless
> complexity with zero benefit. It's no easier than copying a folder.
Ass backwards. It would reduce complexity, and in addition to that benefit it would also make
more people aware of what can be done. It's a hell of a lot easier than copying unknown
folders.
>>Not a thing wrong with that as an extra. But not having that in the
>>standard export menu is bad.
>
> You want the standard export menu to have every single filter in it?
> Even if they were hidden in a dialog under a mail export option, you're
> just going to see the same interface as the normal mail menu, so just
> use the normal mail menu, which is more flexible, and has all the
> functionality.
I want the standard export menu to have standard export options in it, yes. That is a no
brainer, so I wonder how you managed to miss it. Did you somehow achieve negative brain?
>>Why would I want to import/export mailer settings separate from browser
>>settings? Are you kidding? I really think the answer is too obvious.
>>Having an all-in-one option would be a nice addition, but treating them
>>individually is very important.
>
> Anything that will be portable to other programs can be exported easily
> enough, that I know of. What you seem to be suggesting is the ability to
> export settings that forms only a subset of your browser settings that
> can only be used by the browser. so to get your browser state back up to
> where you had it, you'll just have to import more files. They're useless
> outside of Opera, so what do you want?
>
> Would you want to import just your mail settings back into opera without
> any other settings? Is it really worth making the browser that much more
> complex? It's useless for sharing settings between non-Opera programs.
Yes, I very much WOULD like to do exactly that. Look, stop assuming that what you like to do is
what everybody else should be forced to do. You aren't the uber-human.
Some people want different browser settings on different computers, but the same mail settings.
Your arrogance here is equalled only by the stupidity of your argument.
>>> Again, if you want to preserve the state of your browser, just back up
>>> your Opera folder: it saves everything. You don't want to have to wade
>>> through individual stuff when backing up your browser.
>
>>ABSOLUTELY NOT. That is a particularly clunky workaround to what should
>>be part of the UI. You simply do not tell users to "just copy
>>everything".
>
> How is a UI element better? There is very little benefit here and plenty
> to lose. Making the browser more complex for almost zero gain doesn't
> seem to make sense.
Shit, am I talking to a child? UIs, done properly, are far easier for the average user to
understand. This is not up for debate, it's a settled fact.
If you hate average users, as you seem to, then shut up. I got your position, and it's
abhorrent, and I'd much rather not see it. Go back to your cave and leave us alone.
If instead you really think you're helping, then christ, stop. You aren't. You're being a petty
little dictator who thinks everyone has to do exactly what you do.
Yeah, I think we're done here. I'll read the rest of your comments, but there clearly is no
point responding. You aren't being a rational adult here.
Naruki Bigglesworth
> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:11:31 +0900, Naruki Bigglesworth
> <Nar...@nothankyou.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:47:39 -0600, Aaron W. Hsu wrote:
>>
>>> Naruki Bigglesworth <Nar...@nothankyou.com> writes:
>>>
>>>>Telling a user to go to the file system to do what should be available
>>>>in the UI is a workaround, not a proper solution. You have failed to be
>>>>user friendly. And "just copy the folder(s)" is especially bad. Most
>>>>users don't know what they need to copy, and many don't even know how
>>>>to copy something.
>>>
>>> If you don't know how to copy something, then you don't know how to use
>>> a computer, and backing up is beyond you until you do learn at least
>>> something as fundamental as copying.
>>
>>You are being an arrogant idiot.
>
> Perhaps that is why no one is particularly enthused to offer assistance to
> you. Flies, honey, vinegar, and all that stuff.
I know the irony of you insulting me for insulting someone else is lost on you, but surely you
realized I am not in this thread asking for advice.
It seems you saw my name and decided to jump into this thread just to attack me, being
completely uninterested in helping the person who DID ask for help.
And perhaps you should consider being a little more even-handed when you get self-righteous.
Picking on one side only makes your real intent a bit too obvious.
Brixomatic
> You'd think they would put the settings in a folder called C:\Settings\Opera. But that would be far too logical for the computing world. You'd think they would put browsers in a folder called C:\Programs\Browsers so they are grouped together. Too logical. Never let a computer geek do any filing for you. You'll never find anything afterward with their warped sense of spatial discernment.
For a reason.
C:\Settings\Opera would be as stupid as can be.
As soon as you have learned enough about the way Windows handles user-
accounts and their rights, you'll probably understand why.
Regards,
-Wanja-
--
"Gewisse Schriftsteller sagen von ihren Werken immer: 'Mein Buch, mein
Kommentar, meine Geschichte'. [..] Es wï¿œre besser, wenn sie sagten:
'unser Buch, unser Kommentar, unsere Geschichte'; wenn man bedenkt, dass
das Gute darin mehr von anderen ist als von ihnen." [Blaise Pascal]
Naruki Bigglesworth
>
> Wow. Paranoid much? :)
Not at all. Experienced, though. I know a misguided self-righteous passive-aggressive attack
when I see one. :->