The one problem I want fixed before O9 final
Matthew Winn
bugs I want fixed (I'm rather disappointed that the Unicode space
character regression is still there, for instance), there is one
problem that I keep encountering on site after site and it's driving
me mad, to the extent that I'd be happy with O9 if just that one thing
was addressed:
The fact that there appears to be no way to have tooltips of the
"title" attribute without also getting popups of link URLs.
I need to be able to see the value of the title attribute for a number
of (admittedly badly designed) sites where the title provides valuable
information necessary for use of the site. Because of this, disabling
the popup is out of the question. But I also visit many sites that
have JavaScript or CSS menus, and when I hover over a menu to see the
options it contains I have less than a second to try to read them before
Opera blats a damned great URL directly over the part of the screen I'm
trying to read.
I don't need this. If I want to know the URL I can look in the status
bar. I deliberately keep the status field long so I can see as much
of the URL as necessary. I neither need nor want to have the URL
splattered across the web page as well.
Please, Opera, give me a preference setting to have the URL displayed
in the status bar alone and keep the tooltip for the title attribute.
That's my most annoying issue with O9 as it stands. What's everyone
else's _one_ problem above all others that causes the greatest
interference with their browsing and that they want to see fixed in
the next release?
--
Matthew Winn
[If replying by email remove the "r" from "urk"]
Chris French
<o*@matthewwinn.me.urk> writes
>
>The fact that there appears to be no way to have tooltips of the
>"title" attribute without also getting popups of link URLs.
>
>
>I don't need this. If I want to know the URL I can look in the status
>bar. I deliberately keep the status field long so I can see as much
>of the URL as necessary. I neither need nor want to have the URL
>splattered across the web page as well.
>
happens to be over link with a great long url that pops up right across
the page I'm reading, so then I ahve to move the mouse.
>Please, Opera, give me a preference setting to have the URL displayed
>in the status bar alone and keep the tooltip for the title attribute.
>
Yep, I agree
--
Chris French, Leeds
Spartanicus
>I'd be happy with O9 if just that one thing
>was addressed:
>
>The fact that there appears to be no way to have tooltips of the
>"title" attribute without also getting popups of link URLs.
The repeated requests over the years for more granularity in tooltip
configuration have been totally ignored. It's been my #1 Opera irritant
ever since the URL was added to the tooltips (V7.2x IIRC).
Afaics it was added to the tooltips to address a potential "security"
issue, the type that secunia likes to wail about. IIRC the "issue" arose
when Opera's default configuration no longer showed the status bar. This
potential "issue" is one of those obscure ones that at best could only
affect the really naive and gullible amongst us, sadly all others have
been punished because of it.
There seem to be a good few people out there who are looking for an
excuse to declare a browser as "insecure" when secunia has something to
say about it (except when that browser is IE of course). I fear that
Opera will do anything to stay off of secunias list of browsers with
"issues", regardless of the obscurity of the "issue" raised, and the
consequences of "fixing" it.
What's bizarre in this scenario is that Opera does allow the tooltips to
be disabled completely (as I've done out of pure frustration with how it
currently works), but they are apparently unwilling to offer a greater
granularity in their configuration. I can only guess at the why, perhaps
there just aren't enough of us who object to the current method.
--
Spartanicus
Edith Gran
wrote:
> Matthew Winn <o*@matthewwinn.me.urk> wrote:
>
>> I'd be happy with O9 if just that one thing
>> was addressed:
>>
>> The fact that there appears to be no way to have tooltips of the
>> "title" attribute without also getting popups of link URLs.
>
> The repeated requests over the years for more granularity in tooltip
> configuration have been totally ignored. It's been my #1 Opera irritant
> ever since the URL was added to the tooltips (V7.2x IIRC).
I agree. It's been extremely irritating, and of the first thing that
really annoys on a fresh Opera install. You hover over something to get a
vital piece of information, and the entire URL is displayed, blocking out
something that was meant to be visible.
>
> Afaics it was added to the tooltips to address a potential "security"
> issue, the type that secunia likes to wail about. IIRC the "issue" arose
> when Opera's default configuration no longer showed the status bar. This
> potential "issue" is one of those obscure ones that at best could only
> affect the really naive and gullible amongst us, sadly all others have
> been punished because of it.
>
> There seem to be a good few people out there who are looking for an
> excuse to declare a browser as "insecure" when secunia has something to
> say about it (except when that browser is IE of course). I fear that
> Opera will do anything to stay off of secunias list of browsers with
> "issues", regardless of the obscurity of the "issue" raised, and the
> consequences of "fixing" it.
The other major browsers seem to think that it's ok to not display the
tooltip.
And they don't seem to en up on The List do they?
>
> What's bizarre in this scenario is that Opera does allow the tooltips to
> be disabled completely (as I've done out of pure frustration with how it
> currently works), but they are apparently unwilling to offer a greater
> granularity in their configuration. I can only guess at the why, perhaps
> there just aren't enough of us who object to the current method.
>
It's not a big enough concern to go on and on about when it's been
mentioned repeatedly over the years.
Things like that is what makes my stomach churn when I'm trying to show
someone a neat feature in Opera, and a "simple" thing like a tooltip
apparently can't be displayed as intended. It doesn't overly impress
people, of that I unfortunately have quite a lot of first hand knowledge.
Gunnar
wrote:
> Please, Opera, give me a preference setting to have the URL displayed
> in the status bar alone and keep the tooltip for the title attribute.
The 'funny' thing is that is was possible in Opera 6 to configure the
tooltips quite detailed.
--
Gunnar
Spartanicus
>> Please, Opera, give me a preference setting to have the URL displayed
>> in the status bar alone and keep the tooltip for the title attribute.
>
>The 'funny' thing is that is was possible in Opera 6 to configure the
>tooltips quite detailed.
It was also the last version that had the status bar enabled by default.
--
Spartanicus
Matthew Winn
> Matthew Winn <o*@matthewwinn.me.urk> wrote:
>
> >I'd be happy with O9 if just that one thing
> >was addressed:
> >
> >The fact that there appears to be no way to have tooltips of the
> >"title" attribute without also getting popups of link URLs.
>
> issue, the type that secunia likes to wail about.
Not a problem in most browsers because of the status bar. :-)
> IIRC the "issue" arose
> when Opera's default configuration no longer showed the status bar.
An odd change to make. How many GUI programs do not have a status
bar? Not many of them. IE has, so I don't know why Opera Software
thought that hiding it would be useful or would help new users to
adjust to Opera.
> This
> potential "issue" is one of those obscure ones that at best could only
> affect the really naive and gullible amongst us, sadly all others have
> been punished because of it.
I think that at some point you just have to allow the stupid to suffer
and let evolution take its course. Only the dimmest of users would
assume that a "click here" link will take them to "http://click here",
so if they assume that a link labelled "http://www.paypal.com" _must_
take them to that URL then they deserve the same fate as someone who
doesn't realise that a large animal with many claws and teeth running
towards them at speed means "hide". Natural selection is good.
Besides, the sort of person who'd make that sort of mistake is likely
to view any sort of popup as Something To Be Ignored, so displaying
the URL will achieve nothing. (Oh, the number of times I've seen even
experienced users just fly though a product without once thinking that
perhaps some of the information displayed on the screen might be worth
reading. And then they're puzzled by the fact that nothing is working,
and of course by that time the real source of the errors has long since
vanished from the display. What we really need is some sort of camera
that watches where the user's eyes look, so unless someone has actually
_read_ an error dialog it can't be dismissed. An added advantage of
such hardware would be the ability to use eye gestures in Opera.)
Spartanicus
>> IIRC the "issue" arose
>> when Opera's default configuration no longer showed the status bar.
>
>An odd change to make. How many GUI programs do not have a status
>bar? Not many of them. IE has, so I don't know why Opera Software
>thought that hiding it would be useful or would help new users to
>adjust to Opera.
IE's and to a lesser extent FF's status bar house more functions than
Opera's. Personally I don't have Opera's status bar enabled, for me it
wastes to much screen space compared to the limited function it offers.
Opera moving the load indicator bar into the address bar was imo a good
UI move, it's the natural place for it imo. I think that the address bar
is also the natural place to display a link's address when hovering over
a link.
In a past thread on this issue I suggested that a link's address should
replace the address of the current page in the address bar in inverted
colour. Rijk replied that this had once been tested internally, but
rejected. Unfortunately I didn't get a reply to my question if they had
used inverted colour in that test.
--
Spartanicus
Andrew Gregory
>>
>> >I'd be happy with O9 if just that one thing
>> >was addressed:
>> >
>> >The fact that there appears to be no way to have tooltips of the
>> >"title" attribute without also getting popups of link URLs.
What about this as an idea? Currently Opera displays a tooltip when the
mouse has been in the relevant area for a certain amount of timer,
regardless of if the mouse is moving or not.
How about if Opera restarted its timer on each mouse movement? That way
you could keep nudging the mouse to stop the tooltip. Once the tooltip is
displayed, it stays on for a minimum amount of time. After that time any
mouse movement hides it. To see the tooltip the mouse would have to be
moved out of the area and back into it.
?
--
Andrew Gregory
<URL: http://www.scss.com.au/family/andrew/ >
Matthew Winn
That would solve the problem -- at least for people with good mouse
control who have no trouble shuffling the mouse -- but I suspect it
would take far more work than simply adding a couple of booleans to
Opera's tooltip code.
The reason I put this problem forward as the _one_ bug I want to see
fixed before O9 is released is that
(a) it's extremely annoying, to the extent that I can't use some sites
because of it, and
(b) it's trivial to fix.
Code to keep track of multiple mouse movements and timeouts would
be hard to write and difficult to test adequately. Merely adding
an extra "does the user want to see address tooltips?" test to the
existing mouse hover code would be simple. I'd be astonished if
this couldn't be implemented in less than ten minutes.
Marc Christiansen
> Merely adding an extra "does the user want to see address tooltips?"
> test to the existing mouse hover code would be simple. I'd be
> astonished if this couldn't be implemented in less than ten minutes.
I have a splendid idea how to make this test. Simply test whether the
status bar is visible or not. If it is => no address in tool tips.
Only kidding. I don't think, this kind of mysterious change in UI
behaviour would be very wise. On the other hand, I could live with it.
Adiaŭ
Marc
Chris French
<and...@no.spam.scss.com.au.invalid> writes
>>> Matthew Winn <o*@matthewwinn.me.urk> wrote:
>>>
>>> >I'd be happy with O9 if just that one thing
>>> >was addressed:
>>> >
>>> >The fact that there appears to be no way to have tooltips of the
>>> >"title" attribute without also getting popups of link URLs.
>
>What about this as an idea? Currently Opera displays a tooltip when the
>mouse has been in the relevant area for a certain amount of timer,
>regardless of if the mouse is moving or not.
>
>How about if Opera restarted its timer on each mouse movement? That way
>you could keep nudging the mouse to stop the tooltip.
That's just kludge, I don't want to wiggle the mouse to get rid of the
thing, I don't want to see a great long url splurged across the page at
all.
(I've no problem with tooltips that use the title as they tend to be
small
--
Chris French, Leeds
Richard Grevers
<use...@solar-empire.de> wrote:
> Matthew Winn <o*@matthewwinn.me.urk> wrote:
>> Merely adding an extra "does the user want to see address tooltips?"
>> test to the existing mouse hover code would be simple. I'd be
>> astonished if this couldn't be implemented in less than ten minutes.
>
> I have a splendid idea how to make this test. Simply test whether the
> status bar is visible or not. If it is => no address in tool tips.
Or "status field is displayed on some bar" since Opera lets you move
fields all over the place
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Richard Grevers
wrote:
> On Fri, 26 May 2006 08:40:47 GMT, Spartanicus <inv...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>> Matthew Winn <o*@matthewwinn.me.urk> wrote:
>>
>> >I'd be happy with O9 if just that one thing
>> >was addressed:
>> >
>> >The fact that there appears to be no way to have tooltips of the
>> >"title" attribute without also getting popups of link URLs.
>>
>> Afaics it was added to the tooltips to address a potential "security"
>> issue, the type that secunia likes to wail about.
>
> Not a problem in most browsers because of the status bar. :-)
>
>> IIRC the "issue" arose
>> when Opera's default configuration no longer showed the status bar.
>
> An odd change to make. How many GUI programs do not have a status
> bar? Not many of them. IE has, so I don't know why Opera Software
> thought that hiding it would be useful or would help new users to
> adjust to Opera.
>
Blame the Mozilla fanboys. Back then there were a lot of accusations that
Opera's UI took up a lot of space. Actually they were false - Opera used
about 3px less height than Firefox in a default but it LOOKED like more
because it was all at the top in O and split between top and bottom in FF.
Taking the status bar out made Opera slimmer than FF even with the ad bar.
Matthew Winn
[long snip]
> That's my most annoying issue with O9 as it stands. What's everyone
> else's _one_ problem above all others that causes the greatest
> interference with their browsing and that they want to see fixed in
> the next release?
Can I assume from the many people agreeing with my complaint about URL
tooltips and the complete absence of replies to the paragraph above,
that nobody has any other complaints about Opera 9? (In which case I
want my bug fixed so Opera will be perfect!)
Andrew Gregory
wrote:
> On Fri, 26 May 2006 07:43:30 +0000 (UTC), Matthew Winn
> <o*@matthewwinn.me.urk> wrote:
> [long snip]
>> What's everyone else's _one_ problem
>
> Can I assume from the many people agreeing with my complaint about URL
> tooltips and the complete absence of replies to the paragraph above,
> that nobody has any other complaints about Opera 9?
Right now, I have very few complaints with Opera 9. Nothing worth worrying
much about. URL tooltips aren't a problem either! ;-)
I'll revise my suggestion. Everything as it is now, except after the
tooltip has been shown for a minimum time (a time identical to the initial
display delay would be fine), any mouse movements hide it.
I can't remember the details, but I think someone suggested a "URL tooltip
preference checkbox" would be a 10 minute job. I don't think so! I suspect
that at this stage any features requiring new UI will be very difficult to
get into Opera before they release it, assuming the widely assumed
"sometime in June" is correct. Lots of issues like strings and
localization to worry about. Suggestions with no UI will be more likely to
be implemented.
Folks have been complaining about tooltips for as long as I can remember.
I'd be surprised if *anything* happens until after 9.0.
Brian L Johnson
> That's my most annoying issue with O9 as it stands. What's everyone
> else's _one_ problem above all others that causes the greatest
> interference with their browsing and that they want to see fixed in
> the next release?
>
Add Bookmark. That Details>> button should be removed and the dialog box
should be put back to what it was before.
Either that, or the button should be re-labelled Normal>> and Useless<<
(As you specifically said "interference with their browsing", I shan't
mention that M2 hasn't had any significant improvements in what feels
like years. <g>)
--
-blj-
Chris French
<and...@no.spam.scss.com.au.invalid> writes
>
>Folks have been complaining about tooltips for as long as I can
>remember. I'd be surprised if *anything* happens until after 9.0.
>
I'll be surprised if anything happens ever.
--
Chris French
Tim Altman
But, but there are shiny new header toolbars! In other news, I agree
wholeheartedly. We're aware that Opera Mail needs some love and we
hope to have the resources to do something about it soon. We're
hiring new Opera Mail developers, too, so if you know anyone that
wants to move to Norway....
--
Tim Altman
Core QA
Opera Software
Remove NO SPAM from e-mail address to reply
Brian L Johnson
> On Tue, 30 May 2006 22:38:27 +0100, Brian L Johnson
> <no.e...@address.invalid> wrote:
>
<snip>
> >(As you specifically said "interference with their browsing", I shan't
> >mention that M2 hasn't had any significant improvements in what feels
> >like years. <g>)
>
> But, but there are shiny new header toolbars!
Oh, how could I have overlooked those! Shame on you, Brian!
;)
> In other news, I agree
> wholeheartedly. We're aware that Opera Mail needs some love and we
> hope to have the resources to do something about it soon. We're
> hiring new Opera Mail developers, too, so if you know anyone that
> wants to move to Norway....
>
Oh, I'd love to, but I don't have the experience in modern low-level
languages. Old ones, yes; modern ones, no. :(
--
-blj-
Matthew Winn
> I'll revise my suggestion. Everything as it is now, except after the
> tooltip has been shown for a minimum time (a time identical to the initial
> display delay would be fine), any mouse movements hide it.
>
> I can't remember the details, but I think someone suggested a "URL tooltip
> preference checkbox" would be a 10 minute job. I don't think so! I suspect
> that at this stage any features requiring new UI will be very difficult to
> get into Opera before they release it, assuming the widely assumed
> "sometime in June" is correct. Lots of issues like strings and
> localization to worry about. Suggestions with no UI will be more likely to
> be implemented.
It was me, and I stand by that statement. I hadn't considered the
localisation issue and you're right that adding a new checkbox in
the preferences would take some work, but an entry in opera:config
wouldn't require any UI changes and the code elsewhere would be
simple to add because it's just the addition or modification of an
"if" or two. The code was there once; can it really be difficult to
reimplement a feature that used to be there?
Your suggestion is harder than it sounds because it involves dealing
with timeouts in an event-driven GUI environment. Event handling is
always a pain in the arse. In addition there would need to be a user-
visible option anyway, to cater for all the users who don't want their
tooltips to vanish if they accidentally jog the mouse. (In general
I dislike "clever" behaviour that attempts to meet a variety of needs
without the requirement for an option, because it means the behaviour
of the product depends on hidden variables that the user doesn't know
about, and that leads to behaviour the user can't understand. It's
been my experience that such behaviour is more a matter of "programmer
couldn't be bothered to add and document an option" than "designer
thought this was the best way of working". A couple of times I've
been guilty of that myself.)
> Folks have been complaining about tooltips for as long as I can remember.
> I'd be surprised if *anything* happens until after 9.0.
It's because folks have been complaining about tooltips for as long as
I can remember that I'm surprised nothing has happened.
[Gripe about widgets taking priority deliberately omitted.]
Holger Dors
> wholeheartedly. We're aware that Opera Mail needs some love and we
> hope to have the resources to do something about it soon.
While that's good to hear, I fear that "soon" is something like "before
Duke Nukem Forever ships", and not like "you'll see something this
christmas", right? :-)
> We're
> hiring new Opera Mail developers, too, so if you know anyone that
> wants to move to Norway....
You don't happen to need a Delphi developer, do you? Oh well, just my bad
luck again... ;)
Holger,
who's looking forward to O9 final
Mark V
> On Tue, 30 May 2006 22:17:08 +0800, Andrew Gregory
> <and...@no.spam.scss.com.au.invalid> wrote:
>> I'll revise my suggestion. Everything as it is now, except
[ ]
>
>> Folks have been complaining about tooltips for as long as I
>> can remember. I'd be surprised if *anything* happens until
>> after 9.0.
>
> It's because folks have been complaining about tooltips for as
> long as I can remember that I'm surprised nothing has happened.
Why is that OS? That loud voices can be ignored for so long in
favor of "new and glitzy" stuff it is clearly "candy" over
functionality?
> [Gripe about widgets taking priority deliberately omitted.]
Then I will! :)
--
(Opera Win32 8.54 7730 (reg'd); W2K,SP4; Sun JRE 1.4.2_10)
Tim Altman
wrote:
>In opera.beta Matthew Winn wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 30 May 2006 22:17:08 +0800, Andrew Gregory
>> <and...@no.spam.scss.com.au.invalid> wrote:
>>> I'll revise my suggestion. Everything as it is now, except
>[ ]
>>
>>> Folks have been complaining about tooltips for as long as I
>>> can remember. I'd be surprised if *anything* happens until
>>> after 9.0.
>>
>> It's because folks have been complaining about tooltips for as
>> long as I can remember that I'm surprised nothing has happened.
>
>Why is that OS? That loud voices can be ignored for so long in
>favor of "new and glitzy" stuff it is clearly "candy" over
>functionality?
I don't think there's anything we could write that would improve on
the current situation.
Spartanicus
>>> It's because folks have been complaining about tooltips for as
>>> long as I can remember that I'm surprised nothing has happened.
>>
>>Why is that OS? That loud voices can be ignored for so long in
>>favor of "new and glitzy" stuff it is clearly "candy" over
>>functionality?
>
>I don't think there's anything we could write that would improve on
>the current situation.
Please expand.
--
Spartanicus
Mark V
> On Wed, 31 May 2006 11:08:19 -0400, Mark V <notv...@nul.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>In opera.beta Matthew Winn wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 30 May 2006 22:17:08 +0800, Andrew Gregory
>>> <and...@no.spam.scss.com.au.invalid> wrote:
>>>> I'll revise my suggestion. Everything as it is now, except
>>[ ]
>>>
>>>> Folks have been complaining about tooltips for as long as I
>>>> can remember. I'd be surprised if *anything* happens until
[ ]
>>> It's because folks have been complaining about tooltips for as
>>> long as I can remember that I'm surprised nothing has happened.
>>Why is that OS? That loud voices can be ignored for so long in
>>favor of "new and glitzy" stuff it is clearly "candy" over
>>functionality?
> I don't think there's anything we could write that would improve
> on the current situation.
Not quite certain how to read that...
If directed at ToolTips, are you saying that something was changed
several versions ago that _precludes_ specifying the ToolTips
contents parts? Or precludes specification of the target-type over
which ToolTips are displayed? If so, then why not fix it?(for so
long) It is _EXTREMELY_ annoying here to have no user control over
either the content of the tooltip or any any control over what
parts of the UI or page ToolTips are displayed.
Tim Altman
I thought I just wrote that I couldn't actually write anything
constructive.
Tim Altman
wrote:
>In opera.beta Tim Altman wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 31 May 2006 11:08:19 -0400, Mark V <notv...@nul.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>In opera.beta Matthew Winn wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 30 May 2006 22:17:08 +0800, Andrew Gregory
>>>> <and...@no.spam.scss.com.au.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> I'll revise my suggestion. Everything as it is now, except
>>>[ ]
>>>>
>>>>> Folks have been complaining about tooltips for as long as I
>>>>> can remember. I'd be surprised if *anything* happens until
>[ ]
>>>> It's because folks have been complaining about tooltips for as
>>>> long as I can remember that I'm surprised nothing has happened.
>
>>>Why is that OS? That loud voices can be ignored for so long in
>>>favor of "new and glitzy" stuff it is clearly "candy" over
>>>functionality?
>
>> I don't think there's anything we could write that would improve
>> on the current situation.
>
>Not quite certain how to read that...
>
>If directed at ToolTips,
Yes.
>are you saying that something was changed
>several versions ago that _precludes_ specifying the ToolTips
>contents parts?
Well, that's obviously the case as it's not currently possible. But I
wasn't referring to anything technical.
>Or precludes specification of the target-type over
>which ToolTips are displayed?
Not that either.
>If so, then why not fix it?
This is what I was referring to. I was attempting to say why no one
at OS has said anything to soothe the complainers.
Matthew Winn
> This is what I was referring to. I was attempting to say why no one
> at OS has said anything to soothe the complainers.
A simple "damn, that's a dreadful way for an application to behave"
would be nice. Here's one I hit a few minutes ago at Oracle. You
have to hover over the checkbox labels on the left to see details
of each option's meaning on the right:
<http://soc.aniteps.com/matthew/tooltip2.png>
I can't believe Opera Software considers this sort of "feature"
desirable, useful, or anything other than a major problem.
Here's an old one from a while ago, showing the same problem on a
menu:
<http://soc.aniteps.com/matthew/tooltip.png>
How can Opera's own staff tolerate this?
Tim Altman
<o*@matthewwinn.me.urk> wrote:
>On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 23:19:40 -0400, Tim Altman <do....@spam.me.invalid> wrote:
>> This is what I was referring to. I was attempting to say why no one
>> at OS has said anything to soothe the complainers.
>
>A simple "damn, that's a dreadful way for an application to behave"
>would be nice.
Damn, that's a dreadful way for an application to behave.
Derek Parnell
> On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:21:35 +0000 (UTC), Matthew Winn
> <o*@matthewwinn.me.urk> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 23:19:40 -0400, Tim Altman <do....@spam.me.invalid> wrote:
>>> This is what I was referring to. I was attempting to say why no one
>>> at OS has said anything to soothe the complainers.
>>
>>A simple "damn, that's a dreadful way for an application to behave"
>>would be nice.
>
> Damn, that's a dreadful way for an application to behave.
Tim, please excuse me if I'm getting this wrong.
I seems that Tim is implying that he agrees that this behaviour by Opera is
not a good thing but that there are some non-technical reasons why it
exists in this form, and that maybe Tim would get into trouble if he
publicly expressed his own views, and finally that Tim has little influence
over any possible change with respect to this behaviour.
I would like to add my voice to the group that wants this tooltip behaviour
to be fixed. Whatever problem the current method is trying to solve, it is
simply not working, instead it causes side effects that are very
undesirable. OS, please invest energy in finding a better solution to the
'problem' that the current tooltip behaviour is trying to be a 'solution'
to.
--
Derek
(skype: derek.j.parnell)
Melbourne, Australia
"Down with mediocracy!"
6/06/2006 10:54:57 AM
Trevor Gough
What's the big deal? Turn off the tooltips if you don't like 'em. :-)
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Steven Saunderson
wrote:
> What's the big deal? Turn off the tooltips if you don't like 'em. :-)
Matthew's original point :
The fact that there appears to be no way to have tooltips of the
"title" attribute without also getting popups of link URLs.
I would also like this.
--
Steven
Trevor Gough
wrote:
OK ... fair enough ... not a big deal to me. I like seeing the URL myself
in the tooltip so I don't have to enable a screen hogging status bar that
is pretty much useless, otherwise, as far as I'm concerned. More user
choice is always welcome, though. :-)
Derek Parnell
> What's the big deal? Turn off the tooltips if you don't like 'em. :-)
The issue is not whether we want tooltips or not. The issues is what do we
want displayed in tooltips. Currently, if there is a URL associated with
the element we get the URL, and if there is a TITLE associated with the
element we get the title text. There is no opportunity for users to tell
Opera which attributes we would like to see in tooltips - Opera forces one
style only.
I'd like something like this to be available in the preferences ...
tooltips_text : [ url only ] | [ title only] | [ both ] |
[ url if no title ] | [ title if no url ]
such that ...
[ url only ] ==> if a url is available display it otherwise nothing.
[ title only] ==> if a title is available display it otherwise nothing.
[ both ] ==> if a url is available display it and if a title is
available display it also. (Current policy)
[ url if no title ] ==> if a title is available display it otherwise
if a url is available display it otherwise nothing.
[ title if no url ] ==> if a url is available display it otherwise
if a title is available display it otherwise
nothing.
--
Derek
(skype: derek.j.parnell)
Melbourne, Australia
"Down with mediocracy!"
6/06/2006 1:13:55 PM
Matthew Winn
> What's the big deal? Turn off the tooltips if you don't like 'em. :-)
The problem with that is that I've seen some sites where the title
attribute is used to display useful (or even vital) information.
I need to have tooltips on for those sites in order to make best
use of the site. Right now the only choice I have is to disable
tooltips and be unable to use some sites, or enable tooltips and
be unable to use other sites. It's so annoying I'm considering
going back to IE.[1]
[1] This is obviously a lie. Using IE is like pulling out your
own teeth, only the pain never ends. I'd rather eat my own liver
than use IE as my primary browser.
Gunnar
wrote:
> Although there will always be changes I'd like to see in Opera and
> bugs I want fixed (I'm rather disappointed that the Unicode space
> character regression is still there, for instance), there is one
> problem that I keep encountering on site after site and it's driving
> me mad, to the extent that I'd be happy with O9 if just that one thing
> was addressed:
>
> The fact that there appears to be no way to have tooltips of the
> "title" attribute without also getting popups of link URLs.
You can disable normal tooltips and replace them with custom tooltips
(UserJavaScript):
http://www.hesido.com/web.php?page=multipopup#
--
Gunnar
Matthew Winn
> You can disable normal tooltips and replace them with custom tooltips
> (UserJavaScript):
> http://www.hesido.com/web.php?page=multipopup#
Now that's clever! I may have to look into that. Correction:
I _will_ have to look into that. Thanks.
[Opera appears to be jealous. It keeps trying to cover up the
User JavaScript tooltips with its own :-)]
Mark V
Ahhh...
So this is a management decision justified by nothing and in spite
of customer-base wishes then? ;)
Tim Altman
wrote:
>On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:47:22 -0400, Tim Altman wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:21:35 +0000 (UTC), Matthew Winn
>> <o*@matthewwinn.me.urk> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 23:19:40 -0400, Tim Altman <do....@spam.me.invalid> wrote:
>>>> This is what I was referring to. I was attempting to say why no one
>>>> at OS has said anything to soothe the complainers.
>>>
>>>A simple "damn, that's a dreadful way for an application to behave"
>>>would be nice.
>>
>> Damn, that's a dreadful way for an application to behave.
>
>Tim, please excuse me if I'm getting this wrong.
>
>I seems that Tim is implying that he agrees that this behaviour by Opera is
>not a good thing but that there are some non-technical reasons why it
>exists in this form, and that maybe Tim would get into trouble if he
>publicly expressed his own views, and finally that Tim has little influence
>over any possible change with respect to this behaviour.
I won't get in to trouble if I express my own views, but I doubt that
my personal feelings would help the situation. I'll leave it as an
exercise to Opera users to decide if the rest is correct or not. :)
Tim Altman
wrote:
>On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:47:22 -0400, Tim Altman wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:21:35 +0000 (UTC), Matthew Winn
>> <o*@matthewwinn.me.urk> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 23:19:40 -0400, Tim Altman <do....@spam.me.invalid> wrote:
>>>> This is what I was referring to. I was attempting to say why no one
>>>> at OS has said anything to soothe the complainers.
>>>
>>>A simple "damn, that's a dreadful way for an application to behave"
>>>would be nice.
>>
>> Damn, that's a dreadful way for an application to behave.
>
>Tim, please excuse me if I'm getting this wrong.
>
>I seems that Tim is implying that he agrees that this behaviour by Opera is
>not a good thing but that there are some non-technical reasons why it
>exists in this form, and that maybe Tim would get into trouble if he
>publicly expressed his own views, and finally that Tim has little influence
>over any possible change with respect to this behaviour.
When it comes down to it, what you're requesting is a valid feature
request and I hope that we can address it soon.
Jonathan A.
<o*@matthewwinn.me.urk> appears to have said:
> On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 11:26:13 +0200, Gunnar <gun...@arcor.de> wrote:
>> You can disable normal tooltips and replace them with custom tooltips
>> (UserJavaScript):
>> http://www.hesido.com/web.php?page=multipopup#
Oh yeah. Now that's control. Thanks for the link Gunnar. I thought I
would never see manageable tooltips in Opera again.
> Now that's clever! I may have to look into that. Correction:
> I _will_ have to look into that. Thanks.
>
> [Opera appears to be jealous. It keeps trying to cover up the
> User JavaScript tooltips with its own :-)]
Heh... turn 'em off... the Opera tooltips that is. You won't miss 'em.
Now, I'm generally one for function over form... plain and simple is
best, as long as the job is done efficiently... but I have to say that
the "Niagra" skin for the multipop JS is pretty neat.
:)
Jonathan
--
Don't just hit reply. Email address is broken. Thank
your friendly neighborhood spammer. Email replies to:
user: daboid domain: cox<dot>net
fuxs
>
> When it comes down to it, what you're requesting is a valid feature
> request and I hope that we can address it soon.
>
Now, that (http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/291397) was
quick! Thanks a lot!
--
fuxs
Spartanicus
This won't work for me at all.
Ever since it was introduced I desperately wanted to get the old
tooltips back. For the life of me I don't see why OS insists on
coupling this with display of the status bar. It makes no sense that OS
considers not displaying a link's URL as a security risk in fear of the
Secunia clique, or otherwise disabling the tooltips altogether as I've
done out of desperation should also be considered as such.
From what I recall of previous Secunia "security alerts" on link
destination obfuscation they objected to such a perceived risk in a
browser's default configuration or if it could easily be activated by
non knowledgable users.
Secunia didn't raise an issue to the current GUI pref setting to disable
tooltips altogether, so WTF is it now coupled to the status bar?
If OS is shitting it's pants about Secunia then an INI/opera:config pref
setting would be a much better solution than this idiotic coupling to
the status bar.
--
Spartanicus
Trevor Gough
wrote:
Oh ... don't be so coy. Tell us how you really feel. ;) It's a
non-issue for me, for what it's worth. :)