structured mapping of real p2p internet infrastructure
Michel Bauwens
Sepp, would you agree to work on some kind of overview mapping of these different projects, in 2011, so that people could easily see what is going on?
what kind of layered organisation schema could we use to make most sense of it?
please also note http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Standards and http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Technology
Michel
Giovanni Lostumbo <giovanni...@gmail.com> Jan 04 05:26AM -0800 ^
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Freifunk
http://www.masternewmedia.org/the-alternative-p2p-wireless-internet-network-the-netsukuku-idea/
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Netsukuku
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/IEEE_802.11s
also
"http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/simon-says/2010/12/non-centralised-
infrastructure/index.htm:
" * YaCy is a search engine where many nodes share information to
build a distributed index.
* Status.Net is a microblogging system that allows users to run
their own Twitter-like site and federate selected streams with other
systems.
* Tahoe-LAFS is a high-redundancy file system that allows many
systems to contribute to an encrypted and distributed storage system
which nonetheless remains readable only to the owner of the files and
not to the owner of the storage
....
* Diaspora will hopefully be a social networking community where
users can run their own federated "pods", thus owning their personal
data and directly controlling what is shared with who.
* OpenPGP encryption is based on self-issued certificates which
gain authority as a result of a web of trust expressed via user-
maintained keyrings rather than a hierarchical certificate authority
system that can be centrally compromised.
* There is discussion and prototyping of a P2P DNS in progress,
without a root authority but rather with federated authority...
... * Various federated identity approaches already exist for
different use-cases, using mechanisms like OAuth and SAML.
* Various experiments in using P2PTV video streaming technology
exist, where the video stream is sourced from nearby users rather than
always from a central provider.
* And of course there are many P2P file distribution systems, as
well as the GNUNet framework project.."
http://www.stanford.edu/~allison/saito.html
http://www.media-art-online.org/iwat/
http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~ley/db/indices/a-tree/s/Saito:Kenji.html
http://www.watsystems.net/watsystems-translation/english.html
https://twitter.com/jukux
http://www.accianco.jp/
http://www2.media-art-online.org/~ks91/gsap2009f-ks91.pdf
http://www2.media-art-online.org/~ks91/gsap2009f-ks91-doc.pdf
--
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
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Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
Michel Bauwens
from four years of experience, I can say that subcategories are not working on our wiki,
I'd rather propose that you/we use a specific project tag for this project, like Internet Infrastructure or some such, and other people can still use other tags if they want to same entries to appear somewhere else,
now if you feel that within that new category, it would benefit from subfields and you are committed to them, of course, I'd have no problem with it,
as you probably know, within each category, you can use the category page itself for free-range classification and contextualization,
and of course, all the material we already have in Technology and Standards, can be re-used by retagging in this new more precise context,
Michel
Michel,I think a wiki entry (or rather a series of entries) would probably be the best format for a collection or a listing of what's out there, what projects are in progress. I could do some work on this, but perhaps we have others who could contribute to the wiki directly.It could then also be structured much better, so we don't mix communications infrastructure with p2p manufacturing and other stuff. I see the page on Category:Technology on the wiki has a bit of everything.My idea would be to organize this in a more structured way. Perhaps the Category:Technology could be re-named Category:Technology:Overview and then other pages could go under Category:Technology such asCategory:Technology:CommunicationCategory:Technology:ManufacturingCategory:Technology:P2P-SoftwareI'm not good at those categorizations, but you get the idea. It would make for less heavy pages on those subcategories, easier to get into and to contribute.Sepp"The individual is supreme and finds the way through intuition".
Michel Bauwens
1) we start with a tag of your own choosing
2) do you have some idea of how to organize this space ?, i.e some organisation by technological layers?
3) then it will be very easily to port items from the Technology and Standards section, put them in the organisational mold you desire, and start improving what we have, and adding what we miss, as well as prioritising amongst the projects acccording to some agreed criteria; it is important here that we can distinguish true peer to peer platforms, in terms of technological qualities, ownership, and user rights for example, from not so true p2p platforms
Any other method is fine by me.
and of course, if you want to immediately start with subdirectories that's fine by me as well, but they need to be carefully thought out and people need to have a committment for using them,
Michel
Hello!
I am very interested in the mapping of P2P infrastructure.
I think we need to build an actor around it. The firts step is to make clear what would define a P2P/free and open infrastructure, whatever you want to call it. This was one of the goals behind the infrastructure part of Fcforum 2010 declaration (http://wiki.fcforum.net/index.php?title=Collective_editing_Infrastructure_part_final_declaration). The second step would be to map the P2P infrastructure. And the third step to create an alliance between those resources.
On the mapping part, I would be happy to contribute and be part of a group of people interested on developing it.
Cheers! Mayo
«·´`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.·*).·´`·»
«·´¨*·¸¸« Mayo Fuster Morell ».¸.·*¨`·»
«·´`·.(¸.·´(¸.·* *·.¸)`·.¸).·´`·»
Research Digital Commons Governance: http://www.onlinecreation.info
Ph.D European University Institute
Research collaborator. Institute of Govern and Public Policies. Autonomous University of Barcelona.
Visiting researcher. School of information. University of California, Berkeley.
Phone Italy: 0039-3312805010 or 0039-0558409982
Phone Spanish State: 0034-648877748
E-mail: mayo....@eui.eu
Skype: mayoneti
Postal address: EUI - Badia Fiesolana
Via dei Roccettini 9, I-50014 San Domenico di Fiesole (FI) - Italy
-----Missatge original-----
De: Sepp Hasslberger [mailto:se...@lastrega.com]
Enviat el: ds. 08/01/2011 16:37
Per a: Michel Bauwens
A/c: p2p-foundation; Fuster, Mayo; giovanni...@gmail.com; Douglas Rushkoff; Open Manufacturing
Tema: Re: structured mapping of real p2p internet infrastructure
Dear Michel,
I must defer to you on matters of the wiki. I'm not a wiki editor and I can't insist on how to do things there.
My suggestion came from an example I saw in the free energy field, where PESWiki is organized with many sub directories and sub-directories, but it isn't me who did it (I don't even know how to make a new wiki page).
I was responding to your message, but wiki isn't my strong side. I'd rather stay on blog-type publishing.
It appears we need some volunteers for this putting-stuff-together-on-the-wiki type work.
Sepp
"The individual is supreme and finds the way through intuition"
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/
http://www.laleva.org
http://blog.hasslberger.com/
http://www.facebook.com/hasslberger
http://twitter.com/healthsupreme
.
Michel Bauwens
Michel
Sepp
"The individual is supreme and finds the way through intuition"
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/
http://www.laleva.org
http://blog.hasslberger.com/
http://www.facebook.com/hasslberger
http://twitter.com/healthsupreme
.
On Jan 7, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Michel Bauwens wrote:
Michel Bauwens
here is the statement I promised, defining p2p infrastructures, I hope it can be of some use: http://p2pfoundation.net/Defining_True_P2P_Infrastructures
please note that this is not to question the legitimacy of non-p2p infrastructures per se, but to define a full p2p alternative which may co-exist alongside it,
this is of course, just a proposal, open to improvements and changes,
Michel
What is a p2p infrastructure:
1) A P2P communications and cooperation infrastructure is a technological and social infrastructure which allows any individual to voluntarily aggregate with others for purposes of communication or the creation of common value
2 )A P2P technological infrastructure allows any agent to initiate actions from any point within the network, on the basis of equality of communication (network neutrality) and without any censorship impeding free speech and the freedom of association and cooperation. It is a distributed infrastructure in which elements of decentralisation and centralisation can only serve the efficiency of the network, and not issues of control or profit.
3) A P2P ownership infrastructure is preferentially owned by the users and producers of value over the network. Private and public ownership of P2P communication platforms can only be justified by superior service provision which does not impede the p2p rights of usage defined in 1 and 2.
4) A P2P governance infrastructure is based on the full rights by communities and participating individuals to govern their own infrastructures and actiivities. Governance by owners of infrastructure is subsumed to the prior usage and cooperation rights of users, including the right to autonomy and self-governance. The governance of P2P infrastructures recognizes participation by all legitimate stakeholders.
5) P2P revenue infrastructures recognize that value creation is primarily the result of user activities and cooperation, and has benefit or revenue sharing processes in place which recognize this value creation, but do not impede the continuation of peer to peer relational dynamics and value creation over the network.
Giovanni Lostumbo
As there are many ways do map an infrastructure, one idea I've thought about was having all p2p software and operating system package either pre-installed on a computer and/or available on a GNU GPL distro (like or using aspects of GNUnet). The attached illustration is based on a partial-mesh topology 3 links/node in a 9 computer network (I merely included duplicate software lists at each PC to illustrate the example of modular and compatible PCs in any network). This could be scaled up, but might need a different software that can readily adapt to different topologies.
Giovanni Lostumbo
I will be happy to scout out technologies and evaluate them to contribute to this kind of listing.Much of the work is actually ongoing, things are being published on the p2p blog and the p2p Ning group site - many of those articles can be just collected and used for the mapping of the infrastructure.You are quite right Michel, a listing of all those things together would be a good resource for anyone attempting to get up to speed on what is there, with a view of building up something of their own.Kind regardsSepp
"The individual is supreme and finds the way through intuition".
On Jan 8, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Fuster, Mayo wrote:
Hello!
I am very interested in the mapping of P2P infrastructure.
I think we need to build an actor around it. The firts step is to make clear what would define a P2P/free and open infrastructure, whatever you want to call it. This was one of the goals behind the infrastructure part of Fcforum 2010 declaration (http://wiki.fcforum.net/index.php?title=Collective_editing_Infrastructure_part_final_declaration). The second step would be to map the P2P infrastructure. And the third step to create an alliance between those resources.
On the mapping part, I would be happy to contribute and be part of a group of people interested on developing it.
Cheers! Mayo
«·´`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.·*).·´`·»
«·´¨*·¸¸« Mayo Fuster Morell ».¸.·*¨`·»
«·´`·.(¸.·´(¸.·* *·.¸)`·.¸).·´`·»
Research Digital Commons Governance: http://www.onlinecreation.info
Ph.D European University Institute
Research collaborator. Institute of Govern and Public Policies. Autonomous University of Barcelona.
Visiting researcher. School of information. University of California, Berkeley.
Phone Italy: 0039-3312805010 or 0039-0558409982
Phone Spanish State: 0034-648877748
E-mail: mayo....@eui.eu
Skype: mayoneti
Postal address: EUI - Badia Fiesolana
Via dei Roccettini 9, I-50014 San Domenico di Fiesole (FI) - Italy
-----Missatge original-----
De: Sepp Hasslberger [mailto:se...@lastrega.com]
Enviat el: ds. 08/01/2011 16:37
Per a: Michel Bauwens
A/c: p2p-foundation; Fuster, Mayo; giovanni...@gmail.com; Douglas Rushkoff; Open Manufacturing
Tema: Re: structured mapping of real p2p internet infrastructure
Dear Michel,
I must defer to you on matters of the wiki. I'm not a wiki editor and I can't insist on how to do things there.
My suggestion came from an example I saw in the free energy field, where PESWiki is organized with many sub directories and sub-directories, but it isn't me who did it (I don't even know how to make a new wiki page).
I was responding to your message, but wiki isn't my strong side. I'd rather stay on blog-type publishing.
It appears we need some volunteers for this putting-stuff-together-on-the-wiki type work.
Sepp
"The individual is supreme and finds the way through intuition"
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/
http://www.laleva.org
http://blog.hasslberger.com/
http://www.facebook.com/hasslberger
http://twitter.com/healthsupreme
.
On Jan 7, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Michel Bauwens wrote:
Giovanni Lostumbo
My idea is to follow the evolution of the widest fields of the internet, for some of the latest technologies and to map them to combine it for new functions (See attachment called p2p convergence- on the right panel). The idea is inspired by Carl Woese's term, "innovation sharing protocols"
http://arxiv.org/abs/q-bio/0605036 and his idea of a "denim fence" "model" of evolution as in the attached illustration
Two of the latest developments in the fields of HDD storage capacity and microprocessors of last year are the advancing beyond the 2.19Terabyte limit:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2373917,00.asp (though using 64-bit OSs, GPT, and UEFI are part of newer platform requirements that do this by default)
And and recent developments in the Einstein-Bose condensate:
http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/11/26/2059208/German-Scientists-Create-Bose-Einstein-Condensate-Using-Photons (which may extend Moore's Law further into the future), then it is possible to combine these technologies to do much more as a client than a server would typically do.
A third example of this is less of a breakthrough, but a more applicable technology and rather a sequential development in consumer microprocessing capabilities, is AMD's 16 core Bulldozer and Intel's SandyBridge 16threaded 8core chips being released in 2011. So, some of the obstacles here are both ideological and technological. Some technologies available can reproduce the internet as Fidonet, but the needs/wants of today's users either depend on or prefer heavy bandwidth for streaming/intensive processing needs. Some p2p software, as Simon at computerworldUk says, "The field is immature, but there are exciting experiments in progress." Looking at the bottlenecks of current technologies and documenting what is needed for the "minimal infrastructure" is an exciting forefront.
By combining some of these technologies, it may be possible to address problems such as Wikipedia's storage needs (mentioned recently, if someone can provide a link?), and having p2p versions of those servers. The same could follow for Sourceforge.net. A theory I'm considering here is, if the some data needs of Wikipedia or other large site such as Amazon/online store increase linearly, and certain breakthroughs in harddrive capacity such as the link above extend consumer storage capabilities exponentially (e.g Multi-layer cells/3D disk writing), then as some next gen technologies physically "shrink", it may be possible to transmit enough internet application data through 1Gb or 10Gbps^n fibreoptics wires, or wireless mesh protocols such as Ronja. If tomorrow's off-the-shelf computers can handle the needs of today's mega server farms, it's possible that the exponential increases in multi-core computers with enough storage will be able to manage the needs of a real p2p infrastructure's most commonly used web applications.
Trends in server architecture include low-power, high density processors: 512 Intel atom chips running at less than 2Kwh: http://www.anandtech.com/print/3768/
And potentially, ARM microprocessors applied to this technique, or Intel Chips that run at 1-100mw per core. and are stacked similarly to SeaMicro's setup. Thus, in the future, converging these trends, as an estimate, it's possible a consumer desktop would run at less than 1 watt- use 48 cores, using 2mw each, and can handle massively parallel p2p internet storage compression and decompression (or RAW uncompressed data functions) with up to 18 exabytes of storage capacity using 64-bit processors and the accompanying RAM possible (16 Exabytes).
But in the near-term, it may be possible to do that with:
Using an 8 or 16 core Zambezi/Bulldozer chip would allow faster decompression and compressions of .rar/.zip ,etc files of p2p Wikipedia discussion/page edits and transmitted across networks, addressing bottlenecks of bandwidth however possible. This isn't an advertisement- just an academic exercise in alternative network infrastructure theories.
Giovanni
Giovanni Lostumbo
I noticed Appleseed on there. Almost forgot about it. Thanks for the links!!
Giovanni
Hi All,Can't contribute to this project but I wanted to share a useful resource:It's a backburner project of Phil Ashlock of OpenPlans:This is a forum to help facilitate and unify the discourse on how to evolve existing web technologies to deliver the promise of user-centric identity. As identity standards begin to coalesce we must consider the implications for existing systems and services. By attempting to implement identity standards as they evolve and by considering the potential they unleash we can better inform their standardization process. However, the focus here isn't simply about adapting technologies to enable identity interoperability, it's more about creating a collaborative environment to coordinate how these technologies should evolve within a user-centric environment.Lots of useful links to projects here. Good survey of the application layer in the space you are discussing.Cheers,Matt