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From: Bryan Bishop <kanz...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 15:30:41 -0500
Local: Sat, Aug 8 2009 4:30 pm
Subject: Re: [Open Manufacturing] Re: Who's Developing P2P-L2G Related Software?
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:04 PM, ecd wrote: Huh, I haven't hung out in /r9k/ on 4chan in a while- or in fact, > Yo! First post in this group. Found my way here via 4chan, oddly > enough. (/r9k/ -> anarchy discussion -> disclosed some projects of > mine & solicited interest/asked about extant work -> someone linked > Bryan Bishop's page -> "Yo! First post in this group"...) ever- so I'm glad to see that you somehow made your way here anyway. > - - - - - - - - SKIP UNLESS YOU'RE INTERESTED IN MY PROJECTS: Yep, you're in the right place. This is what we're mainly working on > The project I described in the aforementioned thread was essentially here. The project idea has been mentioned in the past (decades ago) hundreds of times over, but nobody has sat down and done it. I found fenn (one of the other committers) by searching around for people interested in David Gingery, and we've been working on this project ever since we met. Smari and Sam Rose and a few others also started emailing around last year about implementing this tech tree. You're welcome to view our progress. In particular, you can see a taxonomy of manufacturing processes here: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/taxonomy.yaml You can see some of the details filled out here: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/processes.yaml You can see an example "package" in skdb, a package for a generic screw: http://adl.serveftp.org/skdb/packages/screw/ Ultimately this is hard to explain to individuals who are unfamiliar And of course, someone put some work into that very project already: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/02/27/sudo-make-me-a-sandw.html So, skdb is "apt-get but for hardware"- the idea is to be able to say > visualization & interchange (formats, languages, etc.)) will end up So, one front-end idea that I have recently been bouncing around is > being pretty versatile, I was going to integrate them into a general- > purpose collaboration-oriented website (and other services, if I could > afford it and there was interest), where I'd also host the major > projects that I personally wanted to develop with the tools: called "djangit". It's a python + django + git + wiki frontend system. The idea is that many people don't want to hear about the guts of skdb, but at the same time there's no reason to ignore proper revision control systems; simultaneously, implementing in django means that the python modules for skdb can be hooked in easily for rendering of the package data (like the screw package), etc., while still allowing human input over the web if someone so desires. At the moment djangit isn't quite functional because I've been neglecting it for the past few weeks. > * the tech tree (multicontextual (historical (from all perspectives)/ In your spare time, you might want to read more about what we've > [bio/psycho/socio]logical/cosmic/metaphysical contexts describing the > development and applications of the various techs), and ground-up > (such that someone who could read and had infinite time could proceed > from step one ("find stones that look like this, mash them together > such that they spark, collect hot sparks in dry fibrous material...", > etc.) to building space ships. Yes, I've heard of the Foundation > books. :P But no, I've not read them.) previously said about bootstrapping on this list-- http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/2279e9a23f644639 > * major subsets of the tech tree (significant enough to people I care One of the problems that I continue to come across is that many of the > about/my own interests to warrant their own project pages (while still > referencing&building upon the main body of data)): "open source hardware" sites on the web are just keeping photographs of their information, which isn't useful because there's actual engineering information involved that should be uploaded (like a CAD file, etc.). But ultimately, yes, just like the alioth server on debian, it would be useful to have a way to link to individual projects and their presence on the web, yes. > -primitive technology (sticks & stones, live off the land, etc.) Yep, we seem to be in agreement. > -chemical (substances, uses, algorithms, models, etc) > -CS stuff (for the development of "fluid" operating systems, another > project I've an interest in.) > -biological (...I think there's already something like this... MIT?) > -materials (processes and tools for production, measurement, > evaluation, etc.) > -tools (measurement, manipulation, etc.) > -salvage (where to find what in presently available artifacts, why > they're there, and how you can use them) > -reverse-engineering (processes, results, tools, etc.) > In building a site around this tree, I imagine people (at least That's one part that the debian community (among others) has solved. > myself) could do write-ups (eg "Using the data in the multimeter > nodes, I've built my own. Here's how I did it..."), and I would feel > immensely fulfilled if people actually devised and contributed novel > techs using the data I hope to accumulate & organize. > I have two ideas that, while probably unoriginal, I think might > distinguish this project: It is well known that engineering is not necessarily the most easy task in the world because you can't just "engineer de novo"- it would be pointless to engineer everything under the sun from scratch each time you build it, right? So for this reason, there are already "package maintainers" in the skdb community that accept projects from others and help them "package them up" into the packaging format. This way, everyone can just sit at their computer and say "sudo make me a sandwich" and the computer handles all of the details like ordering inventory, or printing out new lego-manual-style instructions for how to assemble parts into a system that you wanted, etc. For those who run shops or who have large machinery laying around, it would be ideal to allow those machines to assemble the components for you, but that'll lead this discussion off topic fairly quickly. ;-) > 1) on top of all that data, you could overlay data structures that Yeah, that's called a version or revision control system. > organize it however you like. You could then share those structures, > edit them, make meta-structures, search algorithms (also sharable!), > etc.. > 2) Up/downloading & persistence - take relevant data with you, keep > your structures and the data they contain sync'd to whatever (and > whoever[']s[']) version you like. > What can I help with? Perhaps it would be nice to have a master list We have some of this in the skdb/inventory/ folder but it's not > (on someone's wiki or something) of who wants/needs what capabilities > (and where they want them - what hardware/microarchitectures/devices/ > modes..), and what currently delivers (free/os or not). I guess I'm complete. Smari was working on a web interface to this, but he hasn't showed up in the IRC channel (#hplusroadmap on freenode) in a few weeks so I'm not sure what his status is. > asking you specifically (Hi, Nathan! Pleased to meet you :) ) to put I have absolutely no idea what Nathan is doing with yet another > some more detail on that page of resources you've started? I see a > list of projects, but I don't have a list of the concrete wants/needs > that they address. Perhaps the rest of you have established enough of > a group-mind to know what the others speak of when mentioning some > project, but I haven't had the initiation. project. We have a lot of momentum here that he's neglecting, and I've invited him to learn more on numerous opportunities, but maybe I'm just getting grumpy and old and grumpy. > What exactly do various people want to do? I know what I want to do, I suggest starting off by joining the IRC channel (#hplusroadmap) and > and I have /some/ technical ability, and if there are already projects > towards similar ends I'd be happy to lend a hand in whatever way I > can. (By the way, I'm glad to see folks here seem cool with each other > working on essentially the same problems in their own way.) saying hi, hanging around and seeing what's up. No doubt that you'll slowly start to get the picture of what some of us are doing (or not doing). > 2) I too am working on a suite of information tools relevant to Great. I hope you know your toolchains well :-). > collaboration. > 3) I am willing to contribute mind/coding power (humble as it may be) Fantastic, I will eat your brain. > to other collaborative projects. > 5) My brain tends to shut down when conversations get too abstract. Hah. Well. We have a rule in the channel: no philosophy. We commonly > Please keep this in mind when communicating with me. I like hard > facts, objectives, and a clear context. (...But when I've completed my > Magnum Opus and I'm finally out from under the thumb of scarcity, I > will thoroughly enjoy philosophizing and mind-masturbating all over > the place - Now with greater [augmented?] intelligence and > experience!) violate it without knowing it, until one of us reminds us of this fact, and we realize we've all been barking up the wrong tree, and get back to more practical work. Anyway, nice to meet you. - Bryan You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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