Wire-EDM Know-How?

49 views
Skip to first unread message

I.T. Daniher

unread,
Dec 26, 2010, 10:25:52 AM12/26/10
to openmanu...@googlegroups.com
Hey All,

I've been tossing around ideas with a friend concerning the production of an open-source Wire EDM machine based on electrolytic supercaps.
I've been pondering a few different use-cases, from a handtool to a makerbot / reprap toolhead.

A few minutes of time from anyone with experience using Wire EDM for sheet-metal machining would be of great help.

Thanks!
--
Ian Daniher
ideas -> prototypes

Jordan Miller

unread,
Dec 26, 2010, 12:01:33 PM12/26/10
to openmanu...@googlegroups.com
wow, never heard of wire EDM before your post. If you could make a reprap toolhead to do that it would be amazing. What kind of voltages do you need (and what is the wire made from?)?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBueWfzb7P0

jordan

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Open Manufacturing" group.
> To post to this group, send email to openmanu...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to openmanufactur...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing?hl=en.

Andrew Shindyapin

unread,
Dec 26, 2010, 1:14:40 PM12/26/10
to openmanu...@googlegroups.com
Also, you would need DI (deionized) water... that stuff is pretty expensive, from what I understand...

Jordan Miller

unread,
Dec 26, 2010, 2:09:52 PM12/26/10
to openmanu...@googlegroups.com
DI water is pretty common in any research lab so it fits perfectly with reprap's decidedly academic bent... reverse osmosis water (18 mega-ohm) is getting more common all the time too.

jordan


John Griessen

unread,
Dec 26, 2010, 2:50:25 PM12/26/10
to openmanu...@googlegroups.com
On 12/26/2010 01:09 PM, Jordan Miller wrote:
> I've been tossing around ideas with a friend concerning the production of an open-source Wire EDM machine based on electrolytic
> supercaps.

How are you planning to get up to high volts for the electric discharges from supercaps
that hold 1.2 Volts each? Design a power supply with inductors and switching transistors
simple, but making spiky RF noise? Borrow an alrready designed one?

Are you going to make this open hardware licensed like TAPR license?

John

I.T. Daniher

unread,
Dec 26, 2010, 3:18:39 PM12/26/10
to openmanu...@googlegroups.com
How are you planning to get up to high volts for the electric discharges from supercaps 
that hold 1.2 Volts each?  Design a power supply with inductors and switching transistors 
simple, but making spiky RF noise?  Borrow an already designed one?
The cutting action, from what I know, comes from repeated arcing through a dielectric. If the distance between the tungsten wire and the metal substrate is small enough, voltage isn't an issue. A paralleled bank of supercaps could provide several dozen Farads at 12v, allowing for significant peak power output. 

Are you going to make this open hardware licensed like TAPR license?
If I elect to dedicate significant time and/or resources to this project, then yes.

--
Ian Daniher
ideas -> prototypes




--

John Griessen

unread,
Dec 26, 2010, 5:28:10 PM12/26/10
to openmanu...@googlegroups.com
On 12/26/2010 02:18 PM, I.T. Daniher wrote:
> A paralleled bank of supercaps could provide several dozen Farads at 12v,


If 12 V is the recommended discharge voltage, and you start with the usual
1.2 or so Volts of a cell of a supercap, you would need ten in series to get to
12V without an inductive power supply circuit between to up the volts.
Putting caps in series makes effective Farads go down and cost more per bang.

There is going to be some voltage that gives you a practical gap for sparks
to do machining -- I'm ignorant of that gap distance though. It needs
to be large enough to allow for your positioning resolution so you don't accidentally
touch the work with the electrode, and probably to get the best blasting action.

The discharges do work in a tiny amount of time, so they will also be able to
launch powerful radio waves, so the energy store supercaps and wires to the electrodes
will need to be in a metal box to stop interference from emanating.

John

I.T. Daniher

unread,
Dec 27, 2010, 8:07:11 AM12/27/10
to openmanu...@googlegroups.com
If 12 V is the recommended discharge voltage, and you start with the usual
1.2 or so Volts of a cell of a supercap, you would need ten in series to get to
12V without an inductive power supply circuit between to up the volts.
Putting caps in series makes effective Farads go down and cost more per bang.
Or use a 12V audio supercap. Also, modern supercaps are rated to about 1.5v, 
requiring only 8 caps, not a prohibitively expensive quantity.  

There is going to be some voltage that gives you a practical gap for sparks
to do machining -- I'm ignorant of that gap distance though.  It needs
to be large enough to allow for your positioning resolution so you don't accidentally
touch the work with the electrode, and probably to get the best blasting action.
I've seen DIY Wire EDMs that successfully run at 12v before. One of the reasons I 
pinged this mailing list was to [hopefully] get information about professional capacitive discharge cutters.

The discharges do work in a tiny amount of time, so they will also be able to
launch powerful radio waves, so the energy store supercaps and wires to the electrodes
will need to be in a metal box to stop interference from emanating.
I'm certain the arcing would cause RF interference, but I'm not sure the cutting action takes place at RF frequencies.
I do know for certain that the frequency and duty cycle of the capacitive discharge is the primary separation between a cap-discharge welder and a wire EDM.

On a side note, the RepRap "Spoolhead" may be a viable solution to dispensing Tungsten filament.

--
Ian Daniher
ideas -> prototypes





John

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages