Re: [tt] <nettime> Means of production: The factory-floor knowledge economy (le monde diplo)
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Morlock Elloi
Mar 23, 2013, 3:18:02 PM3/23/13
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"Desktop publishing", now 20+ years old, had the same false premise.
Ability to typeset and print at home did not change publishing world
much. The same big publishers are making the same money today, and
choose what they want to print in pretty much the same way.
What changed is that you don't have to go to the post office to get
tax forms - you can print them yourself.
Self-printing objects may somewhat shift the consumer supply chain, in
some cases, from fully finished objects to raw material + design, but
the value will not shift any direction but down - take photographic
prints as example. What you used to have done in one-weeek, then
one-hour photo shops, today you can print, but you don't, because it
lives as bits on the disk and the wire, and pixels on the screen. Are
you empowered because of that? No, you are not, and the actual value
of photographic skills went down the drain.
Once billions of 'tards can print objects at home, the value will go
down the drain. You may bury yourself in coffee mugs, gun receivers,
dildos, jewelry - it will all be worthless, as photo prints are today.
> but the economical reasons felt behind.
>
> Leaving beside the question of the universality of the
> "universal fubber" and whether a DIY-die casting can become a
> new biz model for masses (artists, makers, hobbyists, pseudo
> self-employed/make-believe entrepreneurs) meating at media art or
> techno fairs and festivals
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John Griessen
Mar 26, 2013, 11:37:41 AM3/26/13
to openmanu...@googlegroups.com
On 03/23/2013 02:18 PM, Morlock Elloi wrote:
> Once billions of 'tards can print objects at home, the value will go
> down the drain.
Sure, and then things won't be motivators for anyone any more.
> Once billions of 'tards can print objects at home, the value will go
> down the drain.
That's a ways off.
Meanwhile, there's some fun to be had in manufacturing.
Saturation could take longer than 20 years for 3DP.
There are so many everyday objects made of shiny plastic now
that 3DP cannot reproduce well yet. Matte finish is where we are
at slow output speeds right now. Injection molding is not doomed yet.
Adam Levine
Mar 26, 2013, 11:39:03 AM3/26/13
to openmanu...@googlegroups.com
The scale of cost relative to size of production is what's important here; in publishing the advantage held by big firms is distribution, supply chain and name recognition.
In manufacturing, you need a minimum quantity to justify making the tool - So products that aren't expected to be wildly successful for a long period of time generally don't get made at all. Name recognition, distribution, etc. are much less important because the distribution/sales space for products is so much larger than that of books.
So with that in mind, additive manufacturing for making tools that will last 10,000 units instead of 10,000,000 for 1/20th the tooling cost and days instead of weeks to have it made makes small project much more possible than printers do. Similarly, you can take a single product design and create a slightly customized version to meet each customers needs, I've never seen this happen with a book - where the author writes one book, then an editor goes through and modifies each version individually to meet the customers tastes.
The point is, yes the relative value of "stuff" will go down to something to more accurately mirrors the costs - But the ability to customize on a per unit basis gives you abilities simply unavailable in conventional manufacturing, and distributes the revenue that does come in a broader group of participants. This is analogous to professional printing and binding equipment coming down in price, and thus more imprints starting up because of the smaller capital investment.
In manufacturing, you need a minimum quantity to justify making the tool - So products that aren't expected to be wildly successful for a long period of time generally don't get made at all. Name recognition, distribution, etc. are much less important because the distribution/sales space for products is so much larger than that of books.
So with that in mind, additive manufacturing for making tools that will last 10,000 units instead of 10,000,000 for 1/20th the tooling cost and days instead of weeks to have it made makes small project much more possible than printers do. Similarly, you can take a single product design and create a slightly customized version to meet each customers needs, I've never seen this happen with a book - where the author writes one book, then an editor goes through and modifies each version individually to meet the customers tastes.
The point is, yes the relative value of "stuff" will go down to something to more accurately mirrors the costs - But the ability to customize on a per unit basis gives you abilities simply unavailable in conventional manufacturing, and distributes the revenue that does come in a broader group of participants. This is analogous to professional printing and binding equipment coming down in price, and thus more imprints starting up because of the smaller capital investment.
Adam B. Levine
Writer - Curator - Designer
http://MindToMatter.org
The Minufacturist
The Daily Bitcoin
The Daily Exposure
Writer - Curator - Designer
http://MindToMatter.org
The Minufacturist
The Daily Bitcoin
The Daily Exposure
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m d
Mar 27, 2013, 6:54:37 AM3/27/13
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Hi Adam,
Your comments caught my attention on the Open Manufacturing list, so I followed your links and read
some of your articles. We are 100% on the same page. You really "get it"! You might want to check
out the new p2p Ripple as well, ripple.com - its based on the Bitcoin block chain concept to
maintain a ledger of credits and transactions, allows issuance of currencies by trusted parties,
etc. It is aimed at combining the functionality of Open Transactions and Bitcoin. Eventually, p2p
anonymous digital bearer certificates can be issued for a variety of financial instruments - bonds,
real bills (bills of exchange), stock shares (great for crowdfunded start-ups, value stream currency
for crowd-sourced and funded projects.
If you're in the SF Bay Area, there is a meetup for Ripple this Thursday evening,
http://www.meetup.com/Ripple/events/109102742/ . We just had the Bitcoin meetup Tuesday evening,
same place, 20mission. A lot of the developers are there, since 20mission is the new Tradehill
office and in the same building as a live-work space established and run by early developers.
I'm preparing a presentation on Nanoscale 3D Printing for my nanotechnology class tomorrow, thanks
for your collection of info on the topic. I'm proposing combining graphene with the plastic in
filament extruders and with the UV resin in DLP systems to increase the strength of the parts.
Funtionalized graphene can be used at much higher concentrations than nanotubes, yielding a stronger
composite. Also, the filament extruder and stretching of the molten filament during deposition
should improve strength by aligning the polymer molecules and graphene along the axis of the
filament. I've used rapid prototyping in mechanical design since the late 80s - glad to see it
really taking off now.
Later,
Mike Doty
On 3/26/2013 8:39 AM, Adam Levine wrote:
> The scale of cost relative to size of production is what's important here; in publishing the
> advantage held by big firms is distribution, supply chain and name recognition.
>
> In manufacturing, you need a minimum quantity to justify making the tool - So products that aren't
> expected to be wildly successful for a long period of time generally don't get made at all. Name
> recognition, distribution, etc. are much less important because the distribution/sales space for
> products is so much larger than that of books.
>
> So with that in mind, additive manufacturing for making tools that will last 10,000 units instead of
> 10,000,000 for 1/20th the tooling cost and days instead of weeks to have it made makes small project
> much more possible than printers do. Similarly, you can take a single product design and create a
> slightly customized version to meet each customers needs, I've never seen this happen with a book -
> where the author writes one book, then an editor goes through and modifies each version individually
> to meet the customers tastes.
>
> The point is, yes the relative value of "stuff" will go down to something to more accurately mirrors
> the costs - But the ability to customize on a per unit basis gives you abilities simply unavailable
> in conventional manufacturing, and distributes the revenue that does come in a broader group of
> participants. This is analogous to professional printing and binding equipment coming down in
> price, and thus more imprints starting up because of the smaller capital investment.
>
> Adam B. Levine
> /Writer - Curator - Designer/
> http://MindToMatter.org
> The Minufacturist <http://minufacturist.com>
> The Daily Bitcoin <http://www.thedailybitcoin.com>
> The Daily Exposure <http://www.thedailyexpo.com>
> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: net...@kein.org <mailto:net...@kein.org>
> _______________________________________________
> tt mailing list
> t...@postbiota.org <mailto:t...@postbiota.org>
Your comments caught my attention on the Open Manufacturing list, so I followed your links and read
some of your articles. We are 100% on the same page. You really "get it"! You might want to check
out the new p2p Ripple as well, ripple.com - its based on the Bitcoin block chain concept to
maintain a ledger of credits and transactions, allows issuance of currencies by trusted parties,
etc. It is aimed at combining the functionality of Open Transactions and Bitcoin. Eventually, p2p
anonymous digital bearer certificates can be issued for a variety of financial instruments - bonds,
real bills (bills of exchange), stock shares (great for crowdfunded start-ups, value stream currency
for crowd-sourced and funded projects.
If you're in the SF Bay Area, there is a meetup for Ripple this Thursday evening,
http://www.meetup.com/Ripple/events/109102742/ . We just had the Bitcoin meetup Tuesday evening,
same place, 20mission. A lot of the developers are there, since 20mission is the new Tradehill
office and in the same building as a live-work space established and run by early developers.
I'm preparing a presentation on Nanoscale 3D Printing for my nanotechnology class tomorrow, thanks
for your collection of info on the topic. I'm proposing combining graphene with the plastic in
filament extruders and with the UV resin in DLP systems to increase the strength of the parts.
Funtionalized graphene can be used at much higher concentrations than nanotubes, yielding a stronger
composite. Also, the filament extruder and stretching of the molten filament during deposition
should improve strength by aligning the polymer molecules and graphene along the axis of the
filament. I've used rapid prototyping in mechanical design since the late 80s - glad to see it
really taking off now.
Later,
Mike Doty
On 3/26/2013 8:39 AM, Adam Levine wrote:
> The scale of cost relative to size of production is what's important here; in publishing the
> advantage held by big firms is distribution, supply chain and name recognition.
>
> In manufacturing, you need a minimum quantity to justify making the tool - So products that aren't
> expected to be wildly successful for a long period of time generally don't get made at all. Name
> recognition, distribution, etc. are much less important because the distribution/sales space for
> products is so much larger than that of books.
>
> So with that in mind, additive manufacturing for making tools that will last 10,000 units instead of
> 10,000,000 for 1/20th the tooling cost and days instead of weeks to have it made makes small project
> much more possible than printers do. Similarly, you can take a single product design and create a
> slightly customized version to meet each customers needs, I've never seen this happen with a book -
> where the author writes one book, then an editor goes through and modifies each version individually
> to meet the customers tastes.
>
> The point is, yes the relative value of "stuff" will go down to something to more accurately mirrors
> the costs - But the ability to customize on a per unit basis gives you abilities simply unavailable
> in conventional manufacturing, and distributes the revenue that does come in a broader group of
> participants. This is analogous to professional printing and binding equipment coming down in
> price, and thus more imprints starting up because of the smaller capital investment.
>
> Adam B. Levine
> http://MindToMatter.org
> The Minufacturist <http://minufacturist.com>
> The Daily Bitcoin <http://www.thedailybitcoin.com>
> The Daily Exposure <http://www.thedailyexpo.com>
> _______________________________________________
> tt mailing list
> t...@postbiota.org <mailto:t...@postbiota.org>
> http://postbiota.org/mailman/listinfo/tt
>
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Matt Maier
Mar 27, 2013, 2:12:31 PM3/27/13
to openmanu...@googlegroups.com
That might not turn out to be a tall hurdle. A few bucks in equipment can produce perfectly smooth parts through vapor deposition. http://blog.reprap.org/2013/02/vapor-treating-abs-rp-parts.html
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