Re: Open hardware directory part 2
Christian Siefkes
> What I meant by "complete" was not in the sense of "this covers everything
> we will ever need to build" but rather "what are ALL of the open hardware
> projects in current or past development?"
Ideally, the collection will cover both.
> I regard the first concept as somewhat insulting as it assumes that the
> creator of this list knows what I'm going to do with my life. That said, I
> would be very grateful if a fully furnished Dymaxion house were dropped in
> my backyard. But I think it's likely that before long I would start to see
> improvements to the design, and want to hack away at the hermetically
> sealed control circuits.
Sure, you'll extend one of the listed projects or you'll create a new one
which can then be listed as well. That's exactly as intended.
> The "Don't do harm principle" is a bunch of crap. Please don't infect the
> memespace with your irrational fear of nuclear energy. Some of us might
> need it. Next you will be restricting designs based on synthetic biology
> because of the possibility of creating super viruses or mind control.
Please keep the explanation in mind. Any technology can be dangerous if used
the wrong way--it's only the extreme cases that will be excluded:
''"enormous" here really means "enormous". We don't want projects that could
accidentally blow up Earth or devastate large parts of it.'
You do? Then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
> This arbitrary restriction also conflicts with "No Discrimination Against
> Fields of Endeavor" condition in the Open Knowledge Definiton.
No. Since the collection will only contain free/open design, anybody can use
the designs in any way they like. If somebody wants to use the nice little
free-design alarm clock to built a car bomb, they can do so, but don't
expect their "free car bomb project" to make it in the collection.
> (while i'm on a cranky flame-roll:)
> Why only 8 "Essentials"? Did you pull this number out of a hat?
Yes. More exactly, I thought about what a community of people who want to
build their lives around free design projects and who want a standard of
living at least as high as currently usual in highly industrialized
countries will need.
It's a starting point, nothing more. As there are projects that don't fit in
the taxonomy, it will grow to embrace them. That's just as intended.
> "Production shouldn't require expensive materials/components/tools or rare
> skills, whenever possible." but some things _do_ require them!
That's why it says "whenever possible" ;-)
Anyway, that's just a guideline. Designs that are less demanding in this
regard will generally be more universal in that more people will be able to
use them, but obviously use of expensive materials won't be a reason for
exclusion.
And Mike Harris wrote:
> The eight essentials should be a subset themselves, the vast majority
> of the designs probably wouldn't be for finished products but, say, an
> industrial furnace that can make things in any of those categories.
Yes, it's meant as a subset. Obviously, means of production are relevant as
well.
> As for the template, I think it could be more ad hoc. Those look fine
> as a guideline, but I don't think you'll get many people filling in
> the "goal" type fields.
Yes, you're probably right. I removed these fields, except for the
freedom-related fields (Depends on proprietary software / vendor-specific
hardware etc.), as I think these will be of interest to most people making
or using free designs. I also left the accessibility field as that is a big
topic nowadays.
Best regards
Christian
--
|-------- Dr. Christian Siefkes --------- chri...@siefkes.net ---------
| Homepage: http://www.siefkes.net/ | Blog: http://www.keimform.de/
| Better Bayesian Analysis: | Peer Production Everywhere:
| http://bart-project.com/ | http://peerconomy.org/wiki/
|------------------------------------------ OpenPGP Key ID: 0x346452D8 --
I'm afraid Mr. Stallman sometimes sounds like a broken record,
however I am on his side in the main.
-- Michael Hart
Christian Siefkes
> On Thursday 16 October 2008, Christian Siefkes wrote:
>> Technical basis shall be MediaWiki (since that's the software basis
>> of the Appropedia) with the Semantic MediaWiki extension. Currently,
>> the project is stalled a bit, while waiting for somebody who can do
>> so to install Semantic MediaWiki (and I was, in any case, busy
>> elsewhere), but hopefully it will soon be rolling again...
>
> Christian, the openvirgle, SKDB, and OSCOMAK repository guys were
> discussing this very same thing about semantic mediawiki a few months
> ago:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/openvirgle/search?group=openvirgle&q=semantic+mediawiki+git&qt_g=Search+this+group
>
> The parallels are exactly the same. The problem with mediawiki is that a
> wiki is a revision control system built on top of a mysql database and
> php. Revision control systems have long existed before wikis. There's
> no reason not to use git, cvs, svn, monotone, etc. If you truly desire
> a wiki interface, then you can then go deploy ikiwiki around it to
> satisfy the web peoples.
Maybe so, but as the project is part of Appropedia we're stuck with
MediaWiki. Anyway, since this is not a strict database application but will
contain a lot of free-form content, a wiki + database-like wiki extension is
probably better than trying to force-fit everything into a database.
> Let's take a few steps forward instead of backwards. Wikis are nice, but
> they are nonoptimal especially because of the inherent problems in web
> browsing. Maybe if Ted Nelson's Xanadu had taken off instead of HTTP,
> then perhaps it would be the place to put these things, but as it is
> now, there are other things that should be done, like keeping direct
> files, and working with those, instead of forcing me to write crawlers
> to download your silly MySQL database through the HTTP interface to
> mediawiki with tons of overhead HTML overhead etc. etc.
It's not quite as bad, for example, you can use the "Special:Export" page to
get the wikitext of a page (with some XML around it, but that can easily be
skipped).
Once data is there it can easily be transformed from one format into
another. The problem is to collect the data in the first place.
Best regards
Christian
--
|-------- Dr. Christian Siefkes --------- chri...@siefkes.net ---------
| Homepage: http://www.siefkes.net/ | Blog: http://www.keimform.de/
| Better Bayesian Analysis: | Peer Production Everywhere:
| http://bart-project.com/ | http://peerconomy.org/wiki/
|------------------------------------------ OpenPGP Key ID: 0x346452D8 --
To the extent that this world surrenders its richness and diversity, it
surrenders its poetry. To the extent that it relinquishes its capacity to
surprise, it relinquishes its magic. To the extent that it loses its
ability to tolerate ridiculous and even dangerous exceptions, it loses its
grace. As its options (no matter how absurd or unlikely) diminish, so do
its chances for the future.
-- Tom Robbins, Even Cowgirls Get the Blues
Bryan Bishop
<chri...@siefkes.net> wrote:
> Maybe so, but as the project is part of Appropedia we're stuck with
> MediaWiki. Anyway, since this is not a strict database application but will
> contain a lot of free-form content, a wiki + database-like wiki extension is
> probably better than trying to force-fit everything into a database.
Since you're using free-form content and evidently something that
isn't DTDized or schematized, then that's fine -- but let's not
confuse the repositories and so on. I can have a repository with ten
million free-form designs and all of it be useless because I simply
cannot spend forever reading through all of it and making sense of
poor English or no English or just general ambiguities left over even
by the best of authors.
> It's not quite as bad, for example, you can use the "Special:Export" page to
> get the wikitext of a page (with some XML around it, but that can easily be
> skipped).
I'm not going to discuss this with you because I think we're talking
about two different things. You want plain text and natural language,
I'm doing systemization, where it becomes more like a hack to throw it
into a convoluted mediawiki+browser+mysql setup .. different things.
albanetcsr
is a directory of hardware open source projects
On Oct 20, 9:14 am, "Bryan Bishop" <kanz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Christian Siefkes
>
Michel Bauwens
As far as I'm concerned this obviates the need for a new project,
since they are already doing it,
They have 50 items, but described in more detail (who's in charge, how
large is the community, stage of maturity) than our own directory of
150 projects at http://p2pfoundation.net/Product_Hacking
Michel
On Oct 28, 12:31 pm, albanetcsr <albanetc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This may have been mentioned, buthttp://open-innovation-projects.org/
Christian Siefkes
> It is very well done, and the database is very well conceived.
>
> As far as I'm concerned this obviates the need for a new project,
> since they are already doing it,
>
> They have 50 items, but described in more detail (who's in charge, how
> large is the community, stage of maturity) than our own directory of
> 150 projects at http://p2pfoundation.net/Product_Hacking
I agree. When the project was first mentioned on this list, I was a bit
worried, since the site didn't give any license terms for its content. I
asked about it and got the response that they would go for a CC license
[http://open-innovation-projects.org/general-discussions/flat/29].
Meanwhile I've seen that they've chosen the Attribution-ShareAlike license.
That's great news, and I think that supporting that directory is really the
way to go!
Best regards
Christian
|-------- Dr. Christian Siefkes --------- chri...@siefkes.net ---------
| Homepage: http://www.siefkes.net/ | Blog: http://www.keimform.de/
| Better Bayesian Analysis: | Peer Production Everywhere:
| http://bart-project.com/ | http://peerconomy.org/wiki/
|------------------------------------------ OpenPGP Key ID: 0x346452D8 --
The message, I take it, is simply this:
never mind mind,
essence is not essential,
and matter doesn't matter.
-- Nelson Goodman, Ways of Worldmaking
Jason Kridner
hardware board?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Christian Siefkes <christ...@siefkes.net>
Date: Nov 2, 12:28 pm
Subject: Open hardware directory part 2
To: Open Manufacturing
Michel Bauwens wrote:
> It is very well done, and the database is very well conceived.
> As far as I'm concerned this obviates the need for a new project,
> since they are already doing it,
> They have 50 items, but described in more detail (who's in charge, how
> large is the community, stage of maturity) than our own directory of
I agree. When the project was first mentioned on this list, I was a
bit
worried, since the site didn't give any license terms for its content.
I
asked about it and got the response that they would go for a CC
license
[http://open-innovation-projects.org/general-discussions/flat/29].
Meanwhile I've seen that they've chosen the Attribution-ShareAlike
license.
That's great news, and I think that supporting that directory is
really the
way to go!
Best regards
Christian
| Homepage:http://www.siefkes.net/ | Blog:http://www.keimform.de/
| Better Bayesian Analysis: | Peer Production
Everywhere:
| http://bart-project.com/ | http://peerconomy.org/wiki/
|------------------------------------------ OpenPGP Key ID: 0x346452D8
--
The message, I take it, is simply this:
never mind mind,
essence is not essential,
and matter doesn't matter.
-- Nelson Goodman, Ways of Worldmaking
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