It is Time for Fox News to stop stoking the flames of hate, violence and advocation political revolt and violence, the crazies are listening.
VT Sean Lewis
violence and advocation political revolt and violence,
the crazies are listening.
Sean Lewis
March 7, 2010
After a second Fringe member with extreme beliefs
and paranoid anti Government fears decided that
violence against America was a solution to taking
back his country it might be time for Fox and
Friends to rethink their anti american rants.
It will only be a matter of time before one of these
Crazies directly states he decided to become
violent because Fox said it was the Patriotic thing
to do.
This recent attack was one that occurred because
of the easy access to weapons this disturbed person was
able to purchased days before the attack.
All the details are still coming out, but the reaction
of the Right trying to quickly distance themselves from
the violence only confirms the point that Republicans
are now realizing they have opened Pandora's Box.
The fact that their Presidential Candidate is now under
political attack from the very Fringe Party that the GOP
legitimized with the selection of Sarah Palin only reinforces
that the GOP has lost control of the very Party they
hoped to control and use in the way they used the
Religious Right in the 2000 and 2004 elections.
The GOP however are just now realizing their mistake,
these people are leaderless and view all of organized
Government as the enemy. The only reason they were
not previously empowered is because they were isolated
and unaware of their exact numbers.
The Fox 9/12 party gave these Fringe Elements a focal
point to rally around and now these disparaged groups
now feel they actually are the TRUE Patriots of
this Country and like the American Revolution they
feel a real call to arms is in order.
How can they not with the Fox News hosts stoking their
lies, beliefs and paranoia as the Truth and justifying
them with fraudulent 'facts'.
The problem is that Fox stoked the fanatics for ratings,
and the GOP stoked the fanatics for political energy,
neither truely understood what they were releasing.
However history shows us one individual who understood
the danger. After this leader consolidated his power he
killed all of the Fanatical leaders in a bloody purge.
We can not repeat such an act in the US, however in
Germany in the 1930's this occurred.
Tom
two fringe kooks could be proven conclusively to far in either the far right
nor the far left camp and are certainly not representative of Fox and
Friends nor the 9-12 project. If anything, the latter kook was anti-Bush
and a 9-11 truther, views which are more consistent with the far left than
they are the far right. The third kook, left out of your post, is the
female professor at the University of Alabama and who was an avowed
"Liberal". Even there, her reasoning had more to do with her failure to
gain tenure than her political leanings. Such politicization of the insane
who would kill others with abandon truly only serves to lessen support of
your own view as it proves you (that's the royal you, BTW) unable to
separate your ideology enough to render a valid conclusion.
Tom
ARMY STRONG!! This We'll Defend.
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VT Sean Lewis
it was OK to carry loaded guns to Town Hall Meetings.
Tell me Tom, at what point do you feel that people are being incited
to 'patriotic' violence against the US Government?
The Plane being flown into a IRS Building and another kook storming
the Pentagon does not seem to be a tipping point for you?
Do we need another Oklahoma type Bombing or a few crazies talking
shots
at the President before you admit that home grown terrorism is
becoming a problem?
The fact that people are still arguing the President's citizenship
only
confirms for me that many of the Fringe are either crazy, stupid,
bigoted or a combination of all.
The hatred, violence and political pandering to the paranoia, fears
and xenophobia of the Fringe is only inciting public unrest.
It is one thing to challenge the system, it is another to advocate the
violent overthrow of the Government.
Tom
hide the fact that he happened to be black at a time when the propaganda was
that no blacks were allowed in the Tea Party's. One black author I heard
just this week stated his amusement at hearing some of the fringe hecklers
commenting about that ban on blacks at a Tea Party at which he was a
speaker. Propaganda is a wondrously destructive thing when it comes to the
truth and without the truth how is one to make valid conclusions. I would
say the same about the long standing propaganda about the Tea Parties
fomenting violence when it was "White" SEIU members who beat up a black
conservative for handing out signs at a townhall in ST Louis last summer.
2) Most evidence reports that the man (Stark) who flew the plane into the
IRS building was more a member of leftist ideological background than white,
the latest Pentagon Shooter most definitely had leftist tendencies. Can you
not see how politicization does nothing to assist either side except to
discredit those who would use it for political gain?
3) AT what point do YOU believe that leftist groups have crossed the line in
terms of ideological patriotism to foster violence? Is it when ELF buries
saws in trees scheduled to be harvested by loggers? When anarchists trash
Seattle and other cities to counter Corporatism? When ELF again bombs
buildings and car dealerships? When ALF bombs scientific laboratories which
do animal testing? That's been going on for decades, is it somehow more
acceptable because it's leftist groups doing and encouraging the mayhem?
HOMEGROWN TERRORISM is NOT becoming a problem, it's BEEN a problem for
decades. Those of us who were dedicated to countering foreign AND domestic
terrorism have been castigated since the 80s so are we now permitted to
state the dangers and encourage the solutions that we have been proposing
all this time? Great, I'm all for it.
4) For those who will question my involvement or my commitment to this
issue, I'll say in advance that I believe that Space and Pred could verify
that I was talking about this stuff, AS WELL AS condemning some VERY SICK
right wing militia types in the late 90s and early 00s. SnipeUNBlu and some
turkey who claimed to be a Green Beret on Active Duty from Fayetteville come
to mind immediately. They might also be able to validate that I was talking
about a COL Larsen and ANSER which was all we had at the time in terms of
Homeland Security in those days and about the CONCEPT of Homeland Security
well before 9-11.
Hollywood
Part of the problem is people politicalizing every person, every
thougth and action.
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>
> - Show quoted text -
VT Sean Lewis
right
as the ones producing these crazies. I said that FOX and Others are
creating an atmosphere that encourages these crazies that it is
patriotic and justified for them to act out violently against the US
Government.
VT Sean Lewis
xenophobia
both have the taint of bigotry.
Hollywood
What a minute here, what difference does the color of the man carry
the rifle make? The statement was that is was the fringe right that
started carrying loaded weapons to ploitical gatherings. Correct?
Propaganda? Where they carrying loaded weapons or were they not? It's
very simple Tom. You want to defend the truth, tell it.
When are people going to stop standing around and crying like a 6 year
old "BUT MAAAAAW HE DID IT FIRST/TOO!"
Why don't sane conservatives simply do their best to control their
fringe nut-jobs, the liberals do the same and stop this fucking finger-
pointing bull-fucking shit. So busy doing that, NOTHING is getting
accomplished.
Tom
Tom
The below is where I got the idea that you were castigating the right. Why
not just castigate the actions of the nuts, right, left, or middle instead.
> > All the details are still coming out, but the reaction
> > of the Right trying to quickly distance themselves from
> > the violence only confirms the point that Republicans
> > are now realizing they have opened Pandora's Box.
>
> > The fact that their Presidential Candidate is now under
> > political attack from the very Fringe Party that the GOP
> > legitimized with the selection of Sarah Palin only reinforces
> > that the GOP has lost control of the very Party they
> > hoped to control and use in the way they used the
> > Religious Right in the 2000 and 2004 elections.
I cannot agree that Fox news is encouraging the crazies or advocating their
violence against the US, anymore than CNN is. If reporting, for example,
that despite the VERY obvious signs that a significant number of Americans
do NOT want the government involved in the provision of Health Care and that
despite that and the inability to get a "reform" bill through Congress due
to opposition even from the President's, the Speaker's, and the Majority
Leader's own party that Obama, Pelosi, and Reid will keep going back to the
trough until they do get a bill is encouraging violence against the United
States, I'd have to suggest that you rethink that. Is it not more likely
(AND TRUE) btw that the actions of Obama, Pelosi, and Reid and their gross
unwillingness to listen to the vox populi is what has encouraged the Tea
Party, the 9-12 project, and many others to band together, irrespective of
prior party affiliations nor of political ideology to seek further and true
change at the ballot box, that as their pleas are increasingly more ignored
that their anger becomes palpable? Is it also not true that some
individuals, unstable to begin with, begin to lose control of their ability
to contain their anger and to take some action? Is it not they, themselves
who should be held accountable for that action? It IS NOT Fox or CNN which
continues down a path known to lead to misfortune and failure, the onus of
that lies on Obama, Reid, and Pelosi, not on the messengers.
Tom
was that it was exclusionary to blacks. That was untrue and a sign of the
propaganda that was being poured out.
VT Sean Lewis
It is one thing to challenge the system, it is another to advocate
the
violent overthrow of the Government.
> ...
>
> read more »
Tom
Tom
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Hollywood
Who says "at the time it was the major contention against the Tea
Party"??? The subject brought up by Sean was the carrying of loaded
weapons at political functions and his feelings that it led to an
escalation of violence.
Your ducking and bobbing and weaving and distracting trying to avoid
the subject.
On Mar 7, 9:57 am, "Tom" <boldsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The point was that at the time the major contention against the Tea Party
> was that it was exclusionary to blacks. That was untrue and a sign of the
> propaganda that was being poured out.
>
> Tom
>
> ARMY STRONG!! This We'll Defend.
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
Tom
Prior to that the big item propaganda wise was that blacks were excluded.
VT Sean Lewis
there were individuals who were hinting that violence was a
possibility if they did not get their way. This is NOT how Democracy
works. This is how Fascism works.
On Mar 7, 6:52 pm, "Tom" <boldsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Guns at the rallys became an issue only after that photo was sent out.
> Prior to that the big item propaganda wise was that blacks were excluded.
>
> Tom
>
> ARMY STRONG!! This We'll Defend.
>
> ...
>
> read more »
Tom
stand at the doors of a polling place in Philadelphia with billy clubs as
citizens try to get in to vote for their next President? Once again, is
Democracy functioning smoothly when SEIU members attack a man at a town hall
meeting in St. Louis? That is ALSO how fascism works.
Tom
ARMY STRONG!! This We'll Defend.
Board Member - Eagles Up
www.eaglesup.us
Member - Vets For Freedom
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Hollywood
Lame Tom, really freakin' lame. Which intimidates you more, a guy with
a semi-automatic (maybe fully automatic) assault rifle with a 20 to 30
round magazine or a guy with a stick?
The SEIU incident in STL, any weapons other than fists used? Careful,
you know I live there and see all the reports (maybe I was there in
person).
On Mar 7, 8:23 pm, "Tom" <boldsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Then does democracy work better when members of the New Black Panther party
> stand at the doors of a polling place in Philadelphia with billy clubs as
> citizens try to get in to vote for their next President? Once again, is
> Democracy functioning smoothly when SEIU members attack a man at a town hall
> meeting in St. Louis? That is ALSO how fascism works.
>
> Tom
>
> ARMY STRONG!! This We'll Defend.
>
Tom
No Jimmy, but here we go for a ride on the road to Abilene again.
The point would be that any of the three are not amenable to a functioning
Democratic process and you know it.
Tom
ARMY STRONG!! This We'll Defend.
Board Member - Eagles Up
www.eaglesup.us
Member - Vets For Freedom
Tom,
--
Hollywood
You know I'm retired and not a member of SEIU, just like you know I
live in STL. I do think the public was allowed at the meeting/rally
you refer to.
You recognize NO DEGREES whatsoever? A man with a stick is just the
same, in manner and degree of threat, as a man or men armed with high-
capacity magazine, automatic assault rifles????
No shit, none of the described actions are amenable to a functioning
democracy. A true enough statement on the surface but you're
recognizing no degree of harm or threat based on the capacity and/or
potential to do harm.
The "point" is NOT just whatever you SAY it is at any given point in
time as suits your political agenda of the moment.
Where do you get that idea anyway?
On Mar 7, 9:37 pm, "Tom" <boldsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you in SEIU??? ;>)
>
> No Jimmy, but here we go for a ride on the road to Abilene again.
>
> The point would be that any of the three are not amenable to a functioning
> Democratic process and you know it.
>
> Tom
>
> ARMY STRONG!! This We'll Defend.
>
Tom
I think that you actually understand my point which is that ANY
attempt to intimidate others and to either deter them from voting OR from
giving voice to their opinion is not what we want to allow in our political
process. That's irrespective of their ideological or any other agenda.
BTW, a Billy Club can be every bit as lethal as an M16, so it really
isn't a matter of degree.
Tom
Tom,
--
Hollywood
Of course I do. And I protest and sincerely hope that ANY and ALL
attempts to intimidate voters are dealt with severly and prosecuted to
the fullest extent of the law.
Now your back to your bullshit. A billy club can, in very specific
circumstances and conditions be as lethal as an M-16. So can a pencil
or a rolled up newspaper or my hands or a length of rope, etc. etc.
etc.
GEE, I wonder why the fuck the Marines didn't arm me with a billy club
instead of an M-16? What's your guess?
On Mar 8, 9:02 am, "Tom" <boldsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jimmy,
>
> I think that you actually understand my point which is that ANY
> attempt to intimidate others and to either deter them from voting OR from
> giving voice to their opinion is not what we want to allow in our political
> process. That's irrespective of their ideological or any other agenda.
>
> BTW, a Billy Club can be every bit as lethal as an M16, so it really
> isn't a matter of degree.
>
> Tom
>
> ARMY STRONG!! This We'll Defend.
>
Tom
Tom
Tom,
--
plainolamerican
from OUR nation
choose sides carefully
you life may depend on it
Hollywood
Chickenshit.
On Mar 8, 9:44 am, "Tom" <boldsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Road to Abilene, again. Happy Trails.
>
> Tom
>
> ARMY STRONG!! This We'll Defend.
>
Tom
Tom
Tom,
Chickenshit.
--
Hollywood
Why would I be going to Abilene?
On Mar 8, 12:37 pm, "Tom" <boldsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No I's still here, boss. Jes wishing you a good trip to Abilene. ;>)
>
> Tom
>
> ARMY STRONG!! This We'll Defend.
>
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Tom
College at Leavenworth back in 2002 about avoiding the Road To Abilene.
This is a pretty good synopsis about the parable.
A "road to Abilene" is when a group collectively decides to do something
which no individual in the group really wants to do. The term comes from the
Abilene Paradox, demonstrated by the story of a family who decides to travel
53 miles north to Abilene for ice cream. On the way back, they begin arguing
after realizing that none of them wanted to go in the first place.
"Everyone knows that Corporate project sucks, but we're all marching full
steam ahead anyway... It's a total road to Abilene."
Hollywood
Funny. NOW, do you want to address the second portion of my post of
March 8, 2010 9:40am or not?
On Mar 8, 1:33 pm, "Tom" <boldsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> LOL, I had to sit through a 1 hour lecture at the Combined Arms and Services
> College at Leavenworth back in 2002 about avoiding the Road To Abilene.
>
> This is a pretty good synopsis about the parable.
>
> A "road to Abilene" is when a group collectively decides to do something
> which no individual in the group really wants to do. The term comes from the
> Abilene Paradox, demonstrated by the story of a family who decides to travel
> 53 miles north to Abilene for ice cream. On the way back, they begin arguing
> after realizing that none of them wanted to go in the first place.
> "Everyone knows that Corporate project sucks, but we're all marching full
> steam ahead anyway... It's a total road to Abilene."
>
> Tom
>
> ARMY STRONG!! This We'll Defend.
>
Tom
the secret is getting them before they're close enough for you to use a club
on them. Just the same, a bullet through the head and a caved in skull from
a hit from a Billy Club both have the same result, generally.
Tom
Tom,
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Hollywood
You are being ridiculous and you damn well know it.
On Mar 8, 4:47 pm, "Tom" <boldsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What, why the Marines issued you an M16 rather than a club? Well, part of
> the secret is getting them before they're close enough for you to use a club
> on them. Just the same, a bullet through the head and a caved in skull from
> a hit from a Billy Club both have the same result, generally.
>
> Tom
>
> ARMY STRONG!! This We'll Defend.
>
VT VirtualTruth
violence and advocation political revolt and violence,
the crazies are listening.
Sean Lewis