Today's IRC chat transcript
Wolf Ellis
Hi all,
Here’s the transcript of today’s IRC chat.
There’ll be another one in a week’s time – hope to speak to you then.
Thanks,
Wolf
#open-ihm
=-= | User mode for Wolf_ is now +ix | |
-->| | YOU (Wolf_) have joined #open-ihm | |
hi | ||
Hi Sarah Wolf, you there? Celia? | ||
Wolf_ | Hi, I'm here yes. | |
+a | ||
+1 I mean | ||
in the absence of anyone else, @Sarah, can we discuss what we'd like to prioritise for Brown & Tiwonge over the coming months. Celia and i discussed andi saw your response. | ||
My suggrestion was to start with creating a branch - along the lines we discussed (to be finalized) in the context of HEA for 1.5.whatever. Do nothing on that branch except fix usrgent bugs. Backport any fixes on that branch to main. | ||
on Main build tests for every data output (ie all the queries in reports and all the utilties that do calculations. To do this they'd need to create a test database and scripts to tear down & rebuild the test start point. | ||
I suggest that Celia and Wolf create the list of all the outputs that need automated tests. | ||
And as a corollary i suggest they create a manual acceptance test based on that same list. | ||
I forgot to state explicitly that as part of set up task they implement the same automated testing as we have on HEA. | ||
Sorry the 'they' in the post about acceptance test ias Celia & Wolf. | ||
thoughts anyone? | ||
on onother call will respond in a second | ||
Wolf_ | Do you mean the smoke test, or something different? | |
The smoke test is a shirt trest to be run before you touch a new download. The acceptance test is a bigger test that should be done on a major release (ie not just an emergency bug fix or two) | ||
OK-automated tests: would that be (say) check all calculations are coming out correctl Disposable income/AE etc: | ||
The branch is absolute priority. If I understand the proposal, it's that Dai/Sarah will write the spect for this. | ||
@Celia, re calculation tests - yes. | ||
@Sarah, any comment on this proposal? | ||
Wolf-while we're here, could you also come in with the question on updating/adding new items to the reference tables at a central/download level (kcal values under crops and wild foods; also items under livestock products) | ||
Sorry, had to go out for a meeting | ||
OK, so to be clear the work should be work for HEA and /not/ IHM? | ||
Dai? The immediate operational/practical problem is with IHM - I think this was your proposal ? | ||
Wolf_ | Sure - the question about open-IHM reference tables is whether it would be possible for us to edit and update the items in the tables? This links to previous discussions about using a name or a number as the ultimate identifier for items, but we could also be adding new items without compromising old ones. | |
The reason I'm asking is that the list of Issues I sent you for this was IHM issues, not HEA | ||
Wolf_ | At the moment, we (Celia and I) have no way of updating the items. | |
Ok-let's pick that up after the discussion on the proposal for T&B's dedicated work now sarah is back | ||
Updaing what items? | ||
Sorry cross posting-can we return to Dai's question: does Sarah have comments on his proposal for T&B. My fault... | ||
OK, think I understand now. If you want the default lists of things to be editable in IHM then you need to raise this as an Issue on the Issues list. Is it already up there? | ||
The default list is editable, but only on individual computers. Ideally, EfD should be able to update this periodically at a central level. | ||
@Sarah - i am talking about IHM. Was thinking about a wider scope than fixing the issues you highlight - they are part of what i have in mind. | ||
@dai OK, we're all on the same page then | ||
@Celia, @Wolf - is there an issue for updating the default shipped reference data? - an enhancement; it's not a bug? | ||
@celia "at a central level" -- there is no "central level" at the moment, and this requires an amount of infrastructure. You should definitely put it on the Issues list but it will need quite a bit of work to figure out how we go about it. We need some sort of cloud provision (Dai?!) or something else. | ||
OK- in the interim, might we produce an updated table to be included in a future (eg V1.5.6) | ||
update? | ||
We haven't decided what should go in v1.5.1 yet! We need some way to start managing "versions" properly and that's quite urgent. I'm not sure what you mean by "produce an updated table", if you mean a hard-coded table that is built into IHM then yes, that's quite easy to do. If you mean allowing people to share their tables with each other that's much harder | ||
It's the 'hard-coded' table. We will get on with the list/revisions. | ||
OK, but it's worth putting all these things on the Issues list, regardless of which ones can be done quickly. at least we can start thinking about the longer term problems! | ||
@Wolf. raise an issue with a file containing a table of data attached and specify exactly what is to be done with it. does it replace all the data in an existing database table in the seed data database? does it append to it? does it replace some rows and add new rows? are there any rows that are to be removed? And write a full description in the issue of what you are trying to achieve.... | ||
...Neither Sarah nor i are sure, so you can be damn sure no-one else would be. | ||
I will have to go soon - i am expecting a call. | ||
Thanks-good to know what's needed | ||
Re v1.5.1 Wolf and I will produce a list with issue numbers for anything that's already been psted.. This will include the enhancements that will be needed for the ESRC project I've mentioned before (there's a budget for these enhancements). Does that make sense | ||
Dai-before you go can we agree next steps for the spec? I'd like to get this to T&B asap | ||
@Celia, agreeing isn't the issue. Ithink we've done that: we want them to make IHM testable, releaseable and manageable; then we want them to build a core of tests for it. | ||
The next step is to translate that into measurable steps (issues. | ||
@celia -- please post a list of things you want in v1.5.1 to the mailing list for discussion. Please do not instruct T&B to do anything on this before the community has had a chance to discuss everything. We need a software engineering process for creating new releases and at the moment we don't even have a way of finding out what was in previous releases | ||
Absolutely-getting into this now | ||
(finally....) | ||
@Celia, can you and Wolf identify all the places where IHM produces output. (calculated or just queried). and put it into a document. That will be the inventory for one battery of tests. | ||
> 'places IHM produces output - cd you give some examples | ||
Dai-will you and sarah be able to advance the 'measureable steps' in the next week or so for the IHM work-I understand Brown has 2 weeks in Dec when he isn't teaching | ||
Does this mean the Reports? | ||
How much time do people have left for this chat btw? | ||
Have to go in a couple of mins. | ||
ok | ||
@celia an example output would be any report or chart. We don't need duplicates where the same content is produced in different forms (e.g. if there is one report that shows all crops for a household) | ||
@Sarah, i'm on borrowed time as of now. - waiting on a call | ||
A quick thing about user documentation | ||
Issue 193 on IHM introduced a new piece of user documentation. | ||
The issue that was entered included an attachment of the current version of the documentation | ||
so presumably the specification for this piece of work was agreed in private and the issue was created after at least part of the work had been undertaken. The attachment is in PDF | ||
Now, we have three different pieces of user documentation discussed on the Issue list, plus the issue relating to the videos | ||
we did say that ALL documentation like this would go on the WIKI so that everyone could edit it and it could be kept up to date | ||
@Sarah, i will draft a list version of the text i wrote above to identify the tasks i see. (@Wolf i assume you'll distribute the transcript so i can start from that). Then collate with your issue list in mail. Then i'd like to agree with you - re branching/testing implementation details) then we can write up the iusses. flag them 1.5.1 (or whatever), prioritize and direct T&B to them. | ||
I did offer to transfer all the documentation to the wiki myself | ||
but that requires editable versions of each document | ||
#issue193. It makes me weep | ||
Wolf_ | Will do, yeah. | |
The issues concerned are 84, 105, 193 and 145 but I may have missed stuff | ||
-ok should we (?wolf) be learning how to produce text in editable form? | ||
Please just do what I asked and upload a .DOC or similar to the comments on those Issues. I will put the current draft on the wiki and you and everyone else can carry on editing from there. Some of this was left over from a very long time ago and it would have been nice to have these documents for the sprints | ||
sarah appreciate this will also be guided by you on edits.The version Wolf is doing now has the King's students in mind ie complete software novices | ||
ok-we will get on with this | ||
So, there is another version of which document being prepared by Wolf? This is not marked as Started by him on any Issue as far as I can see | ||
The reason I am saying I should put the stuff on the wiki is just that it's difficult to put images up there, you need to use Mercurial and the command line, so it would be difficult for you or Wolf to do the first version | ||
Wolf_ | I'm working on a user guide for open-IHM for King's College students as part of our household economy e-learning unit for them. | |
Wolf_ | Not directly related to the software development or issues, as far as I can tell, although you might think otherwise? | |
@Dai, @sarah-any point in me updating Brown and Tiwonge on the IHM work proposal? ie we hope to get something to you ?? next week. just that I mentioned we'd get back to them a while back. I know you all have a lot of other things to do... | ||
I have to get to another call now-Wolf, can you save this transcript? | ||
We haven't discussed open-hea: shd it nevertheless go to the hea developers' gp. | ||
@Wolf is the document you are working on related to Issue 84? Is it a different document? Did you start from scratch? | ||
It's related to Issue 84 | ||
Wolf_ | I didn't realise there was a related issue - I thought the issues list was only for issues directly concerning the software, rather than other documents about the software. | |
Wolf_ | And yes I can save the transcript Celia. | |
Yeah, the Issues list can be for any jobs that need doing on the projects | ||
ok thanks everyone. bye |