kildare street

[Rob Stocker]

These are dark days for the open data community in Ireland. Please feel free to respond in kind, in categorically condemning this government and it's absolute hypocrisy, and in supporting kildarestreet.com, the reinstating of the xml feed and the rejection that open data is simply for big enterprise (paid for by the people).

[Denis Parfenov]

I wondered, how long it will take for any info re kildarestreet to appear here. Thank you to a citizen and a taxpayer Rob, for informing "Open Data Ireland" community.

It is obvious that we are making wonderful progress towards 'Open Data' and 'Open government' in Ireland http://www.activecitizen.cc/open/tales_from_the_coalface/

Congratulations everyone!

[Ryan Meade]

I did a short blog post on this here: 

http://ryanmeade.com/wordpress/archives/2012/09/20/the-oireachtas-great-leap-backwards-its-not-just-about-kildarestreetcom/

Ryan

[Rob Stocker]

Hi Denis,

I'm at a loss. Did I totally misread the aims and objectives of this group? I refer back to one of the conversations where a participant stated (honestly and in innocence) that he had not considered the citizenry aspect of open data and was purely looking at it from a job creation aspect. I felt at the time that it was shortsighted but also definitely well meaning. I also remember not feeling the same way at all about a document released by the big boys that was short sighted but in no way well meaning. I remember offering to be part of a forum or regular meetup where activists, developers, academics, big boys and their politicians meet up and share the part that we have in common. I mean I don't mind the big boys or local county councils having their share if they don't begrudge me, mine. And in principal would love to meet with them and share ideas and even argue the finer points. But largely my posts and suggestions went unanswered.

So I'm wondering whether this group is actually primarily a facade for an initiative to use mine and others data by the big boys. I felt originally that I wanted to be involved as a developer who likes to play with data (not as a citizen or activist.) But now based on the deafening silence in this group, I am convinced that individuals are not welcome here. And those that where once enthusiastic were quickly de-energised ( I guess I've joined that list of people)

I don't have your conviction. I am not interested in teaching the big boys or those who registered here yet remain silent, the true value of open data. I just wanted to write some code and teach open data (code and the community) to my coderdojo classes at NUIG. But I am tired of being disappointed.

Rob

On 23 Sep 2012, at 10:25, Rob Stocker wrote:

These are dark days for the open data community in Ireland. Please feel free to respond in kind, in categorically condemning this government and it's absolute hypocrisy, and in supporting kildarestreet.com, the reinstating of the xml feed and the rejection that open data is simply for big enterprise (paid for by the people).

--
Rob & Lisa - EMC23
083 416 0618
in...@emc23.com
www.emc23.com

[Joan Mulvihill - IIA CEO]

Hi guys,

 

I have to say I'm deeply disappointed with the decisions that have impacted Kildare St.  On the face of it, it seems like a backwards step.   To think that one pull of a plug could take out a progressive open data initiative is so disheartening - just when you think you're getting somewhere. 

 

J :(

[Ronan Farrell]

Just went to KildareStreet.  It was a great example of how a simple thing by an organisation can be translated into something very useful.  There doesn't seem to be any rationale for cutting the XML feed as it should have been automated.  Seems to be a case that we need to make greater efforts to convince people of the value so that next time someone will think twice - and ideally even change the existing decision.  A strong argument these days is that it can help reduce costs to be more open.

Regarding enthusiasm and de-energising...  it is unfortunately a slow process and often disheartening.  Hopefully more steps forward than back.

Ronan
NUI Maynooth & Dublinked

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Ronan Farrell
The Callan Institute for Applied ICT
National University of Ireland Maynooth
Maynooth, Co. Kildare,
Ireland

P: +353-1-7086197
F: +353-1-7086027
W: www.imws.nuim.ie
------------------------------------------------------------------

[Emer Coleman]

Everyone

I am sorry that I don't have more time to keep an eye on open data events in Ireland but I hear the disappointment in peoples emails. Just to say from my experience in London the open data way is rocky and often paved with these step backs...I had lots of them and you just have to keep working together and keep shouting and blogging but mostly keep worthing together. For what its worth (and you may have already done) Senator Fiach MacConghail is a good friend of mine - worth me having a word?

Anything I can do let me know (am restricted from engaging too publicly given my role in Cabinet Office) but please don't lose heart!

Emer

[Joan Mulvihill - IIA CEO]

Hi Emer,

 

Thanks so much for the lovely email of encouragement.  Its important to inject some hope into the exchanges as its so easy to get annoyed and frustrated.  The offer of an intro to Senator Fiach MacConghail would be good....  especially if he's sold on Open Data! 

 

Many thanks

 

Joan

----- Original Message -----

From: Emer Coleman

To: open-dat...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 8:19 AM

Subject: Re: [Open Data Ireland] kildare street

[Eamon Leonard]

Hi Rob, everyone,

I started this group / mailing list back about two years ago, primarily to be a place where anyone in Ireland (or outside looking in) could talk about Open Data / structured public data. 

Like any community effort, it relies on everyone to help it to succeed, and probably a few people to lead. My time is limited these days, and I have not been able to nurture the Open Data community as I would have wished, but I have seen others here, and elsewhere, step up in various ways.

Over the last two years I've observed Open Data as a conversation and activity in Ireland move forward. But, it's just a mailing list, it's not really a community. Yet. It's still far from where it should be, but to get there it needs community leaders.

I would encourage anyone who has an interest in taking a leadership role in the Open Data community in Ireland, to take that lead, engage with others who are doing similar things some of whom are on this list, and to work together to push things forward on a grass roots level. 

While, there have been a few interesting Open Data projects on a local government level, I think what were looking for is a cultural change at the top. That's not something that will happen overnight, unfortunately, and will require people who are passionate about this subject, and have the time to commit, to push it forward. 

I'm active in the Irish software developer and startup communities, and I've seen, and been able to help, it grow over the last 5 years. I host regular meetups in my office on Barrow St. for various developer, designer and startup groups. I've seen first hand the real value that is created when people meet in the real world and get to talk face to face. 

While my time is limited, I'd be more than happy to host a regular monthly meetup here. That means providing the space, beer and pizza. If someone else wants to take the lead and organise a few speakers for each meetup, and promote it, that could be a good starting point for something more tangible.

If anyone is interested in running that, let me know.

Cheers,

Eamon.

-- 

Eamon Leonard

@EamonLeonard on Twitter

eamon.leonard on Skype

+353 86 8602280

[Michael Hausenblas]

Thank you very much for your post, Eamon. This is exactly how I feel about it as well.

Cheers,
Michael

--
Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
Ireland, Europe
Tel.: +353 91 495730
http://mhausenblas.info/

[Ronan Farrell]

Regarding KildareStreet and the houses of the Oireachtas, I think it's not all doom and gloom.  I've looked at the feeds coming from the Oireachtas site.  It's not an open format but it is structured and would not take much to convert it into a searchable database.  I've done similar in the past for other sites.  ScraperWiki does this a lot.  If we had the time (which we generally don't) the solution is to translate these non-open-standard public documents into more accessible standards for the rest of the community. 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the most important part for me is that the information is made available in an accessible form (ie not PDF).  Ideally this should be a documented open-standard machne-readable form such as XML but where this does not occur, we can work with it and still push the open-data agenda.  The change in the Oireachtas publication process was a step back but not as big a one as some of the published statements have made on it. 


Ronan

[Joan Mulvihill - IIA CEO]

I'm in! Pick a date and I'll get started on something... just don't ask me
to do anything between now and Friday! :

J

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hausenblas" <michael.h...@deri.org>
To: <open-dat...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Open Data Ireland] kildare street

[John Handelaar]

On 26 September 2012 13:40, Ronan Farrell <rfar...@eeng.nuim.ie> wrote:

Regarding KildareStreet and the houses of the Oireachtas, I think it's not all doom and gloom.  I've looked at the feeds coming from the Oireachtas site. 

Do please tell us all where the "feeds" you're talking about can be located.

 

The change in the Oireachtas publication process was a step back but not as big a one as some of the published statements have made on it. 

How very helpful of you.  Let me know when you've got a working scraper and parser set.

Clearly just killing off the largest open data set in Europe is no big deal. How foolish we have all been.

[John Handelaar]

On 26 September 2012 13:40, Ronan Farrell <rfar...@eeng.nuim.ie> wrote:

Regarding KildareStreet and the houses of the Oireachtas, I think it's not all doom and gloom.  I've looked at the feeds coming from the Oireachtas site. 

Do please tell us all where the "feeds" you're talking about can be located.

 

The change in the Oireachtas publication process was a step back but not as big a one as some of the published statements have made on it. 

[Dominic Byrne]

All,

I'm also happy to be involved.  I'm afraid I can't take a lead, but will do what I can to help organise and support.

Regards,

Dominic.

Dominic Byrne,
Assistant Head of Information Technology,
Fingal County Council.

Fingal Open Data - http://data.fingal.ie
Twitter - http://twitter.com/fingalopendata

[Ryan Meade]

Hi Ronan,

I think the key point is that developers of services based on open data don't only need the information to be accessible, they also need a degree of confidence that the data formats won't change arbitrarily in the future without notice. There are any number of services that could be built based on scraping public information on government web sites, but nobody is going to do this if they think they might have to revisit the code every time a small change occurs in the way the government site is serving the info.

This is why I think it's as important to push the issue of how the data is provided as it is to insist that the data be accessible in the first place. The latter we can insist on as of right, but the former requires us to inculcate at government level an understanding that there can be a real pay-off if life is made as easy as possible for the developers. This in turn requires demonstration projects, of which kildarestreet.com was the best Irish example. The fact that the Oireachtas thought so little of effectively killing it shows that we have a long way to go on this score.

I wrote more here: http://ryanmeade.com/wordpress/archives/2012/09/20/the-oireachtas-great-leap-backwards-its-not-just-about-kildarestreetcom/

Ryan

[Ronan Farrell]

i meant the standard webpages with all the content on them, but I guess you knew that.
Sorry if I've offended you.  I'll stop now

[John Handelaar]

I think you should.  Or back up your rather snide criticism with code. One or the other.

[Rob Stocker]

Cool,
I've done a bit of networking over the past year and  I'd be happy to help where ever I can.

I'd love to get more info on RDF and other linked data methods from the guys at DERI and NUIG. I also think a talk from John from Kildarestreet would be cool, as well as the work by Ronan and Dominic.

As well as talks I'd like to suggest that some of the meets are a bit more informal reducing the need to produce formal talks all the time. There are cool videos from people like Tim Berner Lee that could be shown and commented on. For me it's important that ideas are shared rather than a one to many format, but of course both methods can be accomodated. 

I'd like to take part in a meet where I could hear about things like RDF as explained by an expert on a one to one basis, so that not everyone needs to understand or even be interested ie one doesn't have to be an expert to partake.

I've done a good bit of networking (just meeting up for a coffee or a beer) and met with Joan and Denis, Josh and Liam from Microsoft, James Corbert and Bill laio (Coder Dojo) and John Breslin (inventor of Sioc). I think talks that encompassed open data, linked data, open government, open science and open education provide enough scope to keep the meets diverse and interesting.

But I offered all of this before, in particular on the 18th April you will see a post where Ton Zijlstra proposed 'Data Drinks'. So I'm catiously optimistic.

Anyway if Joan is up to organising and you are supplying the venue, I will do anything I can to be a positive force to this.

regards
Rob

[Denis Parfenov]

Excellent then!

I believe we all should gracefully accept Eamon’s invitation to host regular informal thematic meet ups. I am happy to offer my enthusiasm to make it happen.

Should be simple. The only appropriate format for this event “Open”. Means of communication “Open” etc.

Emer, thanks to your department, and the international community in general, for continues support in helping to educate our government what “open” means and for your help in getting Ireland in OGP.

Re Kildare Street and open government in Ireland in general http://blog.opengovpartnership.org/2012/09/ireland-closing-the-door-to-open-government/ (Ryan’s piece linked. HT to Gavin for heads up!)

Eamon, perhaps you need to suggest a date… Thank you.

We’ll see who makes an effort to show up (for a start) and take it from there. 

Best,

Denis

On Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:25:03 AM UTC+1, Rob Stocker wrote:

[Denis Parfenov]

One more thing...

I have to say I'm deeply disappointed with the decisions that have impacted Kildare St.  On the face of it, it seems [!!!] like a backwards step. 

(emphasis mine)

Not earlier than one week after Kildare Str was "killed" and in response to a third post on google groups..........sounds like an absolute public outrage!

Denis


On Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:25:03 AM UTC+1, Rob Stocker wrote:

[Ton Zijlstra]

hi all,

some thoughts as a total outsider to the Irish context, and without any first hand knowledge as to how the citizen / government relationship typically evolves or how it is perceived.

I try to never assume malice and to avoid us/them terminology.THE government does not exist, it is an amalgam of thousands of branches and offices, who often do not know of each others work or existence. I never set out to change government, I set out to connect to individual civil servants.  I never met a single civil servant that was not committed to public service. That may not be immediately visible to me, they may lack awareness, knowledge or skills, have strategic goals clashing with mine, but that is just as true the other way around when they are trying to judge my commitment to the common good, and my role as citizen. THE citizen does not exist either after all.

I connect to individual civil servants and politicians. A techguy perhaps, so we will talk data formats and it. A lawyer perhaps, so we will talk open licenses and procurement requirements. A politicisn perhaps, so we will talk wide visions, legislation and foi principles. And I will try to connect them to other change agents and perceptive people in their public sector bodies, and elsewhere in gov. And I will try to connect them to stakeholders they normally do not encounter. the hackers, coders, activists, startups, and individual reusers. I feed them stuff that allows them to be better at their work through open data, and I tell them how they could help me be better what I do, how I would like to see their public service to adapt to the new possibilities.

I never try to relate to government, I relate to people inside gov bodies. that is easier and often more effective than taking on the entire slow moving oil tankers that gov bodies usually are. 

It takes time, and my patience is certainly diminishing over time. but it is also an exponentially growing process, so it is the first steps that are always hardest and seem smallest, but it will snowball. every data release will trigger a few others. I talked to a dutch gov body 14 months ago, they just released their first data. I tried to convince another body over the course of 18 months before they released data. I pushed for a national data portal for over two years, before seeing it launched. But every dataset released makes it more likely others will follow. 

So, meet up over data drinks, and be sure to include civil servants. Seek a conversation with parliament staff on their turf over what happened but check your anger at the door and express your frustration with existing structures as part of a conversation between people. Work with MPs to create political pressure, but not to punish the civil servants involved, but to show there is a public interest and public service angle that fits with their core professional values.

 

Best,

Ton

On Thursday, September 27, 2012, Arthur Doohan wrote:

Greetings All….

and apologies for taking so long to make a first post here.

Government has always played a disproportionate role in Irish life and with its recent acquisition of the banks this role has expanded beyond the wildest dreams of even a fascist dictator. 

So the need for a decent 'OpenData' mindset is even more pressing.

However, given the 'fascist' levels of control afforded to Govt by the current 'setup' it is only natural that 'fascist' tendencies will emerge. We know, to our cost, that power corrupts and that even the meagre power that the Greens had in the last Govt. corrupted them completely.

The trend towards absolutism in Irish governance can be measured by the lack of oversight embedded in the NAMA legislation and by the increasing use of 'commercial sensitivity' as a fig leaf behind which to hide from any uncomfortable disclosure or debate.

The 'kildarestreet' decision was an act of vandalism, all the more so because it was done without any discussion or even post-facto rationalization.

Hannah Arendt made famous the line about 'the Banality of Evil'. It is in such casual and banal actions that Govt. will hide the evils it is committing.

I will gladly contribute anything that I can do to assist in an active 'OpenData' campaign.

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Interdependent Thoughts
Ton Zijlstra

t...@tonzijlstra.eu
+31-6-34489360

http://zylstra.org/blog

Share your real life open data experiences,

observations and anecdotes:

http://epsiplatform.eu/content/share-your-story

---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ton Zijlstra]

And a blogposting from 2009 where I discuss our and 'their' attitude in approaching open data discussions as well, after witnessing an 'interesting' exchange between Danish citizens and civil servants. http://www.zylstra.org/blog/archives/2009/07/reboot_11_trans_1.html

And David Eaves (open data Vancouver) channelling Clay Shirky http://eaves.ca/2009/07/27/creating-the-open-data-bargain-in-cities/

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Interdependent Thoughts
Ton Zijlstra

t...@tonzijlstra.eu
+31-6-34489360

http://zylstra.org/blog

Share your real life open data experiences,

observations and anecdotes:

http://epsiplatform.eu/content/share-your-story

---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Eamon Leonard]

Ok, so just confirming:

- Joan

- Rob

- Denis

(did I miss anyone?, shout!)

You guys are good for knocking heads on having our first meetup? Might be worth taking this conversation offline, then coming back to the group when we have something more concrete. 

In the mean time, I'm going to suggest we do a meetup either on a Wednesday or Thursday. My experience of hosting and running meetups over the past year for various groups is that other days tend to be bad for most people -- Mon / Tuesday are too early in the week… too much of a "school night" vibe or something. And Friday… well people tend to have plans on Fridays :)

Anyway, I'll email the three of you now to get the ball rolling. 

Everyone else: 

- if you want to help organise, you can at any time offer to help - feel free to email me on ea...@eamo.net. 

- keep an eye on this mailing list for a date and details of the meetup.

Cheers,

Eamon.

-- 

Eamon Leonard

@EamonLeonard on Twitter

eamon.leonard on Skype

+353 86 8602280

[Joan Mulvihill - IIA CEO]

Hi Sean,

 

I think its great to have you involved - I remember you were at the IIA Government Roundtable on OpenData so its important to have your 'insider' perspective.  I've to agree with both yours and Ton Zijlstra's perspectives that it is not malice that lies behind decisions but rather a lack of awareness of the impact.  It doesn't make it right.  My pet hate in life is people who excuse poor choices with "I just didn't think"... like 'thoughtlessness' is somehow a virtue or excusable.  But nonetheless, there's a lot to do and I think having support from someone within the DJEI is a positive thing.

 

J

----- Original Message -----

From: Sean Smith

To: open-dat...@googlegroups.com

Cc: in...@emc23.com

Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 9:31 AM

Subject: Re: [Open Data Ireland] Re: kildare street

Hi Eamon,

 

If I can help at all I would like to get involved but I'm not available on Wednesdays. Speaking as a civil servant, I don't think what the Oireachtas people did was malicious or deliberate more ill-informed. As happens in my own Department, one section will decide to do something without realising or thinking about the impact that it will have on other sections. Open Data as a concept is in its very early stages certainly for civil servants and it is going to take a while before people inside the service start thinking about how what they do could be of benefit if their own data was released. The UK was in a similar situation not so long ago and their are still roadblocks there, as I'm sure Emer will agree.

 

Cheers

Sean

Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation

[Ton Zijlstra]

hi all,

Joan wrote:

....not malice...a lack of awareness of the impact.  It doesn't make it right..... 

Very true. Realizing that however makes it easier to enter into a conversation that is still constructive with the people involved, which in turn creates the elbowroom needed to make it right. 

best,

Ton

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Interdependent Thoughts
Ton Zijlstra

t...@tonzijlstra.eu
+31-6-34489360

http://zylstra.org/blog

Share your real life open data experiences,

observations and anecdotes:

http://epsiplatform.eu/content/share-your-story

---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Sean Smith]

Hi Joan,

 

Yes, we met at the Roundtable and its a pity that there wasn't more of a kickstart from that as it seemed at the time. I totally agree that thoughtlessness is no excuse and we civil servants should be much more aware of the impact of our decisions but it is a difficult mindset to break. I'm not sure how much 'insider' perspective I can bring as I seem to be pretty much on my own - in this Department at least - but I will give you my own views for what they're worth! Look forward to seeing everyone on the 25th.

 

S.

On Friday, September 28, 2012 10:17:44 AM UTC+1, IIAJoan wrote:



[deirdrelee]

Hi,

Great to see discussion around this here. While I agree that it wasn't a great move for the Oireachtas to stop publishing debates in XML formats, and it is disappointing that as a result KildareStreet.com is offline for the time being, I believe this is a perfect opportunity for us to demonstrate the usefulness and importance of Open Data.

Reading Ryan's blog that "Mark Mulqueen, Head of Communications for the Oireachtas, confirmed to me on Twitter that the recent changes to the site were designed to achieve efficiencies by ending the outsourcing of “a large amount of work involved in debates", it seems clear that a lack of awareness of the impact, as Joan, Ton and Sean have also touched on, is the cause of this situation. If anything, it was probably seen as a good thing, cutting outsourcing, saving money, etc.

This is a good starting point to engage in discussions with public authorities. This scenario clearly demonstrates that:

·         -  releasing Open Data is beneficial and can be reused by third-parties to provide additional services to citizens

·          - Open Data should be released under a license or agreement that enables third-parties to build systems/businesses around this data in a confident manner

However, the government requires support in best practices for publishing Open Data. I would suggest that there should not continuously be a large amount of work involved in publishing debates in a standardised format. As a community, we could offer advice here.

I would be happy to participate in any discussions on this matter.

Cheers,

Deirdre

[Rob Stocker]

Hi all,

I couldn't email earlier having spent most of the day stuck in a train station and on a train with no power lead for my laptop :-)

Alan: Great to hear from you. I think speaking in laymans terms is exactly what is needed and opening a dialogue with politicians from all parties will definitely help. As I am neither an academic nor data specialist of any kind and  feel somewhat ill equipped most of the time when dealing with these topics. I hope that informal meets address that issue for people like me.

Deirde: The requirement of a licence for many (some) of us here, goes against the definition of "Open", (it's our data why do we need a licence?).  So I would suggest you refrain from stating anything as being clear. Let's keep those kind of discussions for the meetings. Now I am not saying the licence model as used by some , is in any way wrong but it is not universally right (or clear).

Ton: As ever I am indebted to your willingness to share your valuable experiences.

Eamon, Joan, Denis, Sean et al : I am really looking forward to meeting you all (I've already had Open Data Coffee meets with Denis and Joan), as I said I live in Galway but am constantly traveling to Dublin, so will be there for both organiser meets and the pizza/beer meets. I was at the Engine Yard for the first Node.js meet up and it is an impressive place.

Is there anybody from the  big businesses that compiled the controversial manifesto thing going to be present?

regards
Rob

[Emer Coleman]

Hi all

I do agree with Sean - one arm not knowing what the other is doing. You have to understand that you guys have all the expertise on the outside and you need to formulate your arguments in ways that those inside government can understand. 

Take Tfl for example - corporate agreement not to produce apps and to open their data. Then I get a call from the Director of Communications and Marketing to tell me that the Director responsible for Journey Planner has (a) released his own app without telling anyone in tfl and then (b) killed off an app that was extremely popular with commuters when he summarily turned off their journey planner XML API - this was very early days in the open data journey and you can read the history if you like here http://mbarclay.net/2010/10/24/tfl-kill-two-of-my-apps/

the subsequent shit storm that we all drummed up forced TfL to restore Malcolm's access and by doing so forced them to commit to opening it for everyone (he had been scraping it) and we moved from there. I have countless examples of the same experience over the London Datastore years government finds it really, really hard to do this stuff and that's why you can't lose heart - because as annoying, and frustrating as this all is - if you don't do it - it won't happen.

One thing that really helped me in the early months force TfL to come out and play was hosting this in City Hall http://glarealtimedata.eventbrite.com/

we had some heavy hitters globally (Bryan Sivak CTO of Washington DC really hit home with TfL) but also Professor Carlo Ratti from MIT....I wanted to show people in gov who couldn't grasp the possibilities what the future could look like...it marked another turning point as we had lots of people tweeting about it and all the top brass in TfL had to come....

Hack days are good but they scare government people a bit - so think about raising the bar and perhaps look at what Paddy Cosgrove has done with his Founders/Web Summit. And try and get some traction...I can help with some introductions to people who could showcase their work to demonstrate the value of open data. Let me know - off for the next week to San Francisco to speak at Code for America will try and mention how things are in Ireland if I get a chance - keep up the good fight!

Emer

[Denis Parfenov]

Hi Emer,

First of all congratulations to the UK acceptance of OGP’s steering wheel. I believe OGP is an excellent medium to share expertise between two countries, between the North and the South. We really appreciate the role the UK cabinet office has been playing in encouraging the Irish govt to join the global movement (OGP discussed here 3-Apr-12, 4-Apr-12, 16-Apr-03, 18-Apr-12, 1-Jun-12, 3-Jul-12, 4-Jul-12).

 

I completely agree, we need to hear from the people directly involved in open data / open government initiatives which make difference in lives of the real people already. CfA is a superb example of partnership between civil society, governments and businesses on development of useful driven by open data open open source civil apps.

 

It would be wonderful if you could ask Jennifer Pahlka or one of the current or past CfA fellows to join us via skype (or in person) to share their experiences in one of the upcoming Open Data Meet Ups.

Thank you and have a good trip to SF!

Best regards,

Denis Parfenov

[colemanemer]

Wii certainly ask her!

Sent from my iPhone

[Emer Coleman]

That's the right approach in my opnion - Hi deirdre...currently in San Fran at Code for America. Going to speak to Jennifer Palka to see if she can do Skype with some of you guys (she is CEO of Code for America)

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:59 PM, deirdrelee <deird...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Denis Parfenov]

Thank you Emer! Being following  #cfasummit. Fascinating stuff!

[Emer Coleman]

its really fantastic stuff - so much enthusiasm and talent in the room its scary (or awesome as my american peeps keep saying :)

[Denis Parfenov]

"Building the wrong things efficiently is not a good use of time" — Eric Ries

Good summary by Jason Hibbets: "Hacking on code and culture: Failure as validated learning"

 http://opensource.com/government/12/10/hacking-code-and-culture?sc_cid=70160000000IDmjAAG

Enjoy!

[Emer Coleman]

Ok All - spoke to Jennifer from Code for America - she is happy to do a Skype call with you guys - and she will help highlight if she can - happy to discuss doing a Code for Ireland....

Also spoke to Tim O'Reilly a Kerryman accidentally born in Cork - (what a headwreck that is long story)....told him that Ireland needs his help! So let's have a think about how we can deploy this...right now too tired to think but I am fairly good on strategy so when back in my own time zone can discuss further!

E

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 10:56 PM, Denis Parfenov <denis.p...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Michael Hausenblas]

> Ok All - spoke to Jennifer from Code for America - she is happy to do a Skype call with you guys - and she will help highlight if she can - happy to discuss doing a Code for Ireland....
>
> Also spoke to Tim O'Reilly a Kerryman accidentally born in Cork - (what a headwreck that is long story)....told him that Ireland needs his help! So let's have a think about how we can deploy this...right now too tired to think but I am fairly good on strategy so when back in my own time zone can discuss further!

Oh wow! Thank you so much for this and looking forward to the next steps. Great to have people like you around who are experienced and walk their talk.

Cheers,
Michael

--
Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
Ireland, Europe
Tel.: +353 91 495730
http://mhausenblas.info/

[Emer Coleman]

no probs Michael - I guess the message I am trying to give to the group and I said it on stage today at code for america is that this stuff is hard - really hard - but there is a network of trust out there and we can't do everything ourselves we have to work together. Government is nearly always cock up not conspiracy and however hard it seems we need to remember that and not lose heart!

Emer

[Michael Hausenblas]

> Government is nearly always cock up not conspiracy and however hard it seems we need to remember that and not lose heart!

Amen.

Cheers,
Michael

--
Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
Ireland, Europe
Tel.: +353 91 495730
http://mhausenblas.info/

[Denis Parfenov]

Thank you Emer! It was "a classic twitter operation".

When infected with CfA and OGP, Ireland will never be tar same. (e-mail forwarded to Oliver is on the way to your mailbox).

Best regards,

Denis

[Denis Parfenov]

Hi all,

Fantastic news from Emer!

I guess its never to early to start getting ready for important meetings. To make sure that

As a community, we could offer [proper] advice here.

• Tim O'Reilly: "Open Govt as a platform" http://www.activecitizen.cc/open/gov-2-0-expo-2010-tim-oreilly-government-as-a-platform-for-greatness/
  
• + http://www.activecitizen.cc/open/tim-oreilly-the-clothesline-paradox-and-the-sharing-economy-2/
  
• + http://www.activecitizen.cc/open/open-data/open-data-in-transit/
  
• Jennifer Pahlka http://www.activecitizen.cc/open/jennifer-pahlka-coding-a-better-government/
• some SfA fellows http://www.activecitizen.cc/open/organising-anna-bloom-change-by-us-by-codeforamerica/
  
• + http://www.activecitizen.cc/open/organising-chach-sikes-citygroups-by-codeforamerica/

For those who are interested

• Why Ireland "doesn't do evidence based policies..., does not do transparency and open govt" so far, (in 2 min from 32'58'') http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/41/53871/1/Tonight-with-Vincent-Browne
  

 We also need to find answers, collectively and eventually

• where those data sets "which we need" (see my unanswered post June 1, 2012)
• what we learned from " the UK government's Open Data White Paper" (July 4, 2012)
  

Thank you and have a nice day!

Best regards,

Denis Parfenov