Re: HST is going to cost average earner thousands of dollars extra a year
macksamillion
"Joe" <dropdea...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f51b2896-7194-4bad...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Lots of delusional anti HST rhetoric spouted here. No facts or
citations to back them up.
Oh, just for you, you lazy turd . . . . .
Vast majority in Ontario, B.C. think harmonized tax will be bad
Canwest News ServiceDecember 5, 2009
OTTAWA - An overwhelming majority of people in Ontario and British Columbia oppose the
HST, with most believing the biggest winners from the new tax will be the provincial and
federal governments, according to results of the latest poll.
Both Ontario and B.C. plan to combine their provincial sales taxes with the federal goods
and services tax on July 1. The new measure will raise the amount of tax paid on items
such as gasoline in Ontario, and phone and cable bills in B.C.
Eighty-two per cent of British Columbians and 74 per cent of Ontarians oppose the tax,
according to the Ipsos Reid survey, commissioned by Canwest News Service and Global
National.
Moreover, 56 per cent of B.C. respondents and 52 per cent of those in Ontario believe the
HST will hurt their provincial economies.
``These are pretty definitive numbers,'' said John Wright, senior vice- president at Ipsos
Reid Public Affairs. ``This is one of those cases where a tax is a tax is a tax, and
people see it as something they don't want.'' [....]
++++++++++++++++++
In both B.C. and Ontario:
Electricity Personal Services (e.g., Hairstyling)
Professional Services (e.g., Legal, Accounting and Real Estate Fees and Commissions)
Internet Access Fees
Tobacco
Heating Fuels
Gasoline
Memberships
Passenger Transportation
Freight transportation
Subscriptions
Non-residential real estate sales
and . . . . .
FUNERAL SERVICES if you or someone you know croaks after July 1, 2010
Gisele
news:jAWTm.87065$Wf2....@newsfe23.iad:
>> I guess being delusional is contagious. McGuinty's key to 'success'.
>
> "Joe" <dropdea...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:f51b2896-7194-4bad...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com.
> .. Lots of delusional anti HST rhetoric spouted here. No facts or
It's no wonder Flaherty and the NeoCONS were for it a year ago and
introduced the idea to the provinces. Of course, the provinces are for
it too. More money for the government. Let's hope they can pay down
their deficits with it or improve healthcare with it.
Gisele
Joe
> > I guess being delusional is contagious. McGuinty's key to 'success'.
>
> news:f51b2896-7194-4bad...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> Lots of delusional anti HST rhetoric spouted here. No facts or
> citations to back them up.
>
> Oh, just for you, you lazy turd . . . . .
LOL
People think that it is a bad idea. Is it because they truly
understand and don't like it? Perhaps they have listened to those who
shout "tax grab" and have no facts to back it up? I thought it was a
stupid idea when I first heard about it. I've looked at the plan, the
whole plan, and now I am neutral about it. It might be a good idea
but politically toxic.
The government in Ontario has done a poor job of explaining the HST.
The opposition has used the "tax grab" shout but very little else.
About a week ago I emailed the Conservatives and asked for some data
showing that overall taxes would rise. So far, they have chosen not
to respond.
Yes, it is true that the tax level on some goods and services will
rise. That will be offset by a cut to the income tax rate and other
measures.
Pat Bay
"Gisele" <ilov...@nospamlycos.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CDCC1F855744il...@94.75.244.46...
Actually it was the federal Liberals who started the HST scheme, for
Atlantic Canada.
Gisele
news:OnZTm.55466$Db2.44743@edtnps83:
>>> In both B.C. and Ontario:
>>>
>>> Electricity Personal Services (e.g., Hairstyling)
>>>
>>> Professional Services (e.g., Legal, Accounting and Real Estate Fees
>>> and Commissions)
>>>
>>> Internet Access Fees
>>>
>>> Tobacco
>>>
>>> Heating Fuels
>>>
>>> Gasoline
>>>
>>> Memberships
>>>
>>> Passenger Transportation
>>>
>>> Freight transportation
>>>
>>> Subscriptions
>>>
>>> Non-residential real estate sales
>>>
>>> and . . . . .
>>>
>>> FUNERAL SERVICES if you or someone you know croaks after July 1,
>>> 2010
>>
>> It's no wonder Flaherty and the NeoCONS were for it a year ago and
>> introduced the idea to the provinces. Of course, the provinces are
>> for it too. More money for the government. Let's hope they can pay
>> down their deficits with it or improve healthcare with it.
>>
>> Gisele
>
> Actually it was the federal Liberals who started the HST scheme, for
> Atlantic Canada.
Cite? In any case, Flaherty is the one who proposed it last year.
Gisele
Pat Bay
Right here -
"In 1996, three Atlantic provinces -New Brunswick, Newfoundland and
Labrador, and Nova Scotia- worked with the federal government to implement a
Harmonized Sales Tax and lower the sales tax portion to eight percent. The
result was a 15% combined tax when the federal rate of seven percent was
added. The new tax went into effect on April 1, 1997"
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonized_Sales_Tax
The federal Liberals were the party of government in 1996.
Joe
> those on the lower end of the economic scale, such as seniors will pay
> the price and have a reduced monthly cash flow and for those who live
> pay-to-pay it is going to be painful. And a one time payment isn't
> going to help.
It is easy to make critical comments about a plan when you ignore 1/2
of it. Provide some figures and the citation to show where the
figures came from that show that this plan will increase total taxes
paid for most people. An income tax cut and an increase in monetary
support for those at the low end of the income spectrum.
Once again I provide quotes and where they came from.
"Sales Tax and Property Tax Relief
Two new tax credits — the Ontario Sales Tax Credit and the Ontario
Property Tax Credit — will replace the existing combined property and
sales tax credits starting with the 2010 tax year. The new credits
will be refundable and are designed to provide sales and property tax
relief to low- to middle-income tax filers. In 2011–12, more than $1.1
billion in additional sales and property tax relief will be provided
to Ontarians through the new credits, compared to those currently in
place.
Ontario Sales Tax Credit
The new sales tax credit will provide timely assistance through
quarterly payments starting in August 2010, one month after the
federal GST credit to provide a smoother cash flow to help lower-
income families. Ontario residents who are aged 19 or over or who have
a spouse or common-law partner or live with their child will be
eligible to claim the credit. It will provide annual relief of up to
$260 for each adult and each child, benefiting about 2.9 million
families and individuals. The credit will provide about $1 billion in
total sales tax relief in 2011–12."(1)
"Ontario Property Tax Credit
The new property tax credit will maintain existing benefit amounts
while extending property tax relief to more low- to middle-income
Ontario homeowners and tenants, providing an additional $270 million
in property tax relief on an annual basis to about 2.3 million
individuals and families. Individuals who are aged 18 or over or who
have a spouse or common-law partner or live with their child will be
eligible to claim the credit. The credit will provide about $1 billion
in total property tax credits in 2010–11. Together with the new
Ontario Senior Homeowners’ Property Tax Grant, the government’s
proposals will almost double property tax relief since 2003."(1)
(1) Ontario’s Tax Plan for
Jobs and Growth:
Cutting Personal and Corporate Taxes
and Harmonizing Sales Taxes
Gisele
That's great but does not apply to what we are talking about *today*.
This new venture was proposed by the NeoCons, namely Flaherty.
Gisele
Joe
You must have missed this news story.
"The HST appears to be a done deal for Ontario – and a big step closer
to reality for British Columbia.
The House of Commons voted 253-37 Wednesday in favour of a harmonized
sales tax for the two provinces."(1)
(1) HST bill passes, 13% tax starts July 1
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/hst/article/736505--hst-bill-passes-13-tax-starts-july-1
Pat Bay
I said previously the federal Liberals started the HSTin Atlantic Canada.
I never made any reference to variations in the HST scheme.
Gisele
news:89de507b-57b9-4a61...@g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:
Joe, they don't get it. You are wasting your time but thanks for the
link!
Gisele
Gisele
news:j4a2i5d8lgdbheln3...@4ax.com:
> And put into law by the Ontario Neolibs.
The idea was Flaherty's, a NeoCON. What don't you undderstand
about that?
Gisele
Gisele
$PH1.42793@edtnps82:
Regardless, this was Flaherty's idea, a NeoCON. See Joe's post
with links to this.
Gisele
Pat Bay
Actually it's not his idea originally wholesale. He is just carrying forward
the basic implementation of the HST to other provinces that (apparently)
want it, from
where it was originally set which is in the Maritimes. There's many
references to the HST being first implemented in the Maritimes.
The federal Liberals first granted the HST scheme to the Maritimes.
Canuck57
> It's no wonder Flaherty and the NeoCONS were for it a year ago and
> introduced the idea to the provinces. Of course, the provinces are for
> it too. More money for the government. Let's hope they can pay down
> their deficits with it or improve healthcare with it.
>
> Gisele
You are pretty stupid. Federal Liberals in 1996 started it by allowing
many provinces to do HST, and the precident is set.
But you are right in that ti is all about more money for the government.
Neve seen a change where the taxes actually decreased when all the
cards were counted.
And don't hold your breath for them doing the right thing with it,
Ontario government is a debt-junkie, just increases their line of credit
and burden on the taxpayers. They probably want the money to pay the
interest in GM/Chrysler corporate welfare and back room deals.
Canuck57
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:13:04 +0000 (UTC), Gisele
> <ilov...@nospamlycos.com> wrote:
>
>> Joe <dropdea...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:89de507b-57b9-4a61...@g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>>> And put into law by the Ontario Neolibs.
>>> You must have missed this news story.
>>>
>>> to reality for British Columbia.
>>>
>>> The House of Commons voted 253-37 Wednesday in favour of a harmonized
>>> sales tax for the two provinces."(1)
>>>
>>> (1) HST bill passes, 13% tax starts July 1
>>>
>>> http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/hst/article/736505--hst-bill-passes
>>> -13-tax-starts-july-1
>> Joe, they don't get it. You are wasting your time but thanks for the
>> link!
>>
>> Gisele
>
>
> But you will when you find out how your cash flow is impacted. You'll
> be excited when you get your first (and last) cheque from McGuinty,
> but after that, just reduced disposable income.
I looked up the tax load on low income, at the $30,000 to $40,000 - OMG
do they pay a lot of taxes when you factor in CPP/OAS, utilities, income
tax (fed-prov), GST, PST etc. I am surprised people don't revolt.
Canuck57
Just admit you were stupid, wrong and got called on it. If you have a
boyfriend, he must be desperate.
Canuck57
> this move is a McGuinty move, not Ottawa's. Without the latter, there
> would be "No New Taxes".
It was what, 1 or 2 years ago Liberals in BC did th "carbon" tax grab.
Canuck57
> those on the lower end of the economic scale, such as seniors will pay
> the price and have a reduced monthly cash flow and for those who live
> pay-to-pay it is going to be painful. And a one time payment isn't
> going to help.
There is also a more hidious reason why government wants to lean on HST
like taxes. Since many baby boomers have cash in the bank, and taxes
already paid on it, as they retire it gives the government more revenue
from the money they spend. When the retired get 0.01% interest, there
is no taxes in that, and between the Harpo Trust lie and the recession,
many retirees will not be paying capial gains for some time.
But as they spend, greedy government gets HST.... I expect Ontario will
raise it soon as only 661 days to an Ontario election, they will count
on peoples short sheeple like memories. Probably also will raise it
after being re-elected too.
Canuck57
> It is easy to make critical comments about a plan when you ignore 1/2
> of it. Provide some figures and the citation to show where the
> figures came from that show that this plan will increase total taxes
> paid for most people. An income tax cut and an increase in monetary
> support for those at the low end of the income spectrum.
When I looked at it, I too came to the conslusing most people, 80% or
more will pay more. I for the life of me cannot see how people will pay
less unless they live well below the poverty line.
> "Sales Tax and Property Tax Relief
I am surprised people don't just revolt on the levels of taxation. Not
only do Americans pay a whole lot less in taxes, tehy get property taxes
and mortgages tax deductable.
Canadians, especially PST provinces real get screwed for taxes.
HST - Holy Shit Taxman!
Canuck57
Check out where the cutoff is in tax benefits, I think if you have an
internet connection and computer you probably make too much to qualify.
Must be young too. Many of us have seen this happen to our parents in
the 60's, 70's and to us ing the 80's, 90's and this decade. Never have
seen net taxes go down in my life so far.
And in theory, taxes should never go up as a percentage of GDP unless
the government is screwing up. Total taxation (all forms) against GDP
have never been higher. They can move it from one side of the tube to
another but it is the same tube of toothpaste.
Don't be so gullable, it is a tax grab. Next step is to wait a few
months an up the rate. Ontario government is broke. They don't really
have a choice as their debt-spending has caught up with them.
Gisele
news:v6hVm.86040$Xf2....@newsfe12.iad:
> E. Barry Bruyea wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:13:04 +0000 (UTC), Gisele
>> <ilov...@nospamlycos.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Joe <dropdea...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:89de507b-57b9-4a61-a455-
e68541...@g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.co
>>> m:
>>>
>>>>> And put into law by the Ontario Neolibs.
>>>> You must have missed this news story.
>>>>
>>>> "The HST appears to be a done deal for Ontario � and a big
step
>>>> closer to reality for British Columbia.
>>>>
>>>> The House of Commons voted 253-37 Wednesday in favour of a
>>>> harmonized sales tax for the two provinces."(1)
>>>>
>>>> (1) HST bill passes, 13% tax starts July 1
>>>>
>>>> http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/hst/article/736505--hst-
bill-pas
>>>> ses -13-tax-starts-july-1
>>> Joe, they don't get it. You are wasting your time but thanks
for
>>> the link!
>>>
>>> Gisele
>>
>>
>> Oh, we get it alright and we understand it, the problem is,
you
>> don't. But you will when you find out how your cash flow is
impacted.
>> You'll be excited when you get your first (and last) cheque
from
>> McGuinty, but after that, just reduced disposable income.
>
> I looked up the tax load on low income, at the $30,000 to
$40,000 -
> OMG do they pay a lot of taxes when you factor in CPP/OAS,
utilities,
> income tax (fed-prov), GST, PST etc. I am surprised people
don't
> revolt.
Can't have it all. Look what happened when Harris gave out a tax
cut. He shut down hospitals, cut services, etc. It's one or the
other. Right now, Ontario has a high deficit, some of it the
government's fault, some of it the financial crisis we are all
going through. It's either increase the revenues or cut
services. People hated Harris for lots of reasons but one of
them was for all the cuts he made to healthcare.
Gisele
Gisele
news:Q7hVm.86041$Xf2....@newsfe12.iad:
Joe posted on Flaherty and what he said. You can't read?
> If you have a
> boyfriend, he must be desperate.
Now that's really lame.....lol.
Gisele
Gisele
> You just keep repeating the same rhetoric and seem blind to the
fact
> this move is a McGuinty move, not Ottawa's. Without the
latter, there
> would be "No New Taxes".
McGuinty and Campbell are right-wing Libs and they are following
Flaherty, a NeoCON. If the NeoCONS were so against this, they
wouldn't have suggested it in the first place.
Gisele
Gisele
news:D2hVm.86039$Xf2....@newsfe12.iad:
> Gisele wrote:
>
>> It's no wonder Flaherty and the NeoCONS were for it a year ago
and
>> introduced the idea to the provinces. Of course, the
provinces are
>> for it too. More money for the government. Let's hope they
can pay
>> down their deficits with it or improve healthcare with it.
>>
>> Gisele
>
> You are pretty stupid. Federal Liberals in 1996 started it by
> allowing many provinces to do HST, and the precident is set.
Irrelevant as this has to do with Flaherty, a NeoCON.
> But you are right in that ti is all about more money for the
> government.
> Neve seen a change where the taxes actually decreased when
all the
> cards were counted.
>
> And don't hold your breath for them doing the right thing with
it,
> Ontario government is a debt-junkie, just increases their line
of
> credit and burden on the taxpayers. They probably want the
money to
> pay the interest in GM/Chrysler corporate welfare and back room
deals.
It's a pity that "all" governments these days are incompetent but
that's the way it is. But to say it's all the "Liberals" fault
is patently untrue.
The NeoCONS, Flaherty and the right-wing Libs are all for the
HST. The only ones against it are the NDP.
Gisele
M I Wakefield
Snip!
> Can't have it all. Look what happened when Harris gave out a tax
> cut. He shut down hospitals ...
As opposed to Bob Rae, who did it by stealth by just shutting down beds.
Lots and lots of them.
Kenneth McVay OBC
E. Barry Bruyea <terml...@democracy.com> wrote:
[...]
>Funny, isn't it, that Rae & his NDP closed schools and cut healthcare,
>but nobody ever seems to 'hate' them for their actions.
Voters are fickle, and rarely vote FOR something.
Actually, I have long believed that we (voters) know
our representatives are all thieves. We simply make a
contract with them and let them pick our pockets unless
and until they get a little too greedy. At that point,
we throw out the current set of thieves and elect a new
set of thieves.
We forget how badly the "new" foxes ripped us off the
last time we let them run the henhouse.
Politicians are only interested in one thing:
protecting and keeping their jobs. They will do and say
anything in order to do that.
We KNOW this, yet still express surprise and outrage
when they lie to us.
Funny, that.
--
The Nizkor Project - An electronic Holocaust educational resource
David Irving, Holocaust denial, and his connections to Right-Wing
Extremists and Neo-Nazism in Germany:
http://www2.ca.nizkor.org/hweb/people/f/funke-hajo/
Gisele
news:s0qei51hc7hki938v...@4ax.com:
> Rae shut down entire wings of hospitals, along with closing
operating
> rooms.
...and what of Walkerton? Privatization was another reason.
Gisele
Gisele
news:D-adnYYYpZ2aXrrW...@vex.net:
> In article <vppei5ppf6kol1j2n...@4ax.com>,
> E. Barry Bruyea <terml...@democracy.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>Funny, isn't it, that Rae & his NDP closed schools and cut
healthcare,
>>but nobody ever seems to 'hate' them for their actions.
>
> Voters are fickle, and rarely vote FOR something.
>
> Actually, I have long believed that we (voters) know
> our representatives are all thieves. We simply make a
> contract with them and let them pick our pockets unless
> and until they get a little too greedy. At that point,
> we throw out the current set of thieves and elect a new
> set of thieves.
>
> We forget how badly the "new" foxes ripped us off the
> last time we let them run the henhouse.
>
> Politicians are only interested in one thing:
> protecting and keeping their jobs. They will do and say
> anything in order to do that.
>
> We KNOW this, yet still express surprise and outrage
> when they lie to us.
>
> Funny, that.
Good point but in the end, some parties can't hide what they
would do (in terms of policies). For instance, if Harper and his
cronies ever got a majority, don't think for one minute they
would remain so "centrist". They're only doing that now to
placate the "sheeple" as some like to say, and try to make
themselves appear to be Red Tories when in fact, they are so far-
right, they make Americans look Socialist....<g>
Gisele
Neil K
"E. Barry Bruyea" <terml...@democracy.com> wrote in message
news:disfi5tu4kjoq6pdi...@4ax.com...
> desperate. Wow, anything more ridiculous you could dig up? Walkerton
> was the result of two corrupt, drunken idiots who were not the result
> of privatization, but public servants working for the local
> municipality. What about Caledonia? What about eHealth? What about
> OLG? What about lying to the electorate?
>
You are getting very close to lying Barry ...... you know the difference ;it
turns out was there was not ENOUGH government not that there was too much.
" ..... Within a week he had announced public inquiry that wound up laying
part of the blame for the Walkerton disaster on cutbacks ordered by the
Harris government. ....."
So much for 'keep the government out'
Dave Smith
> No lie. Two drunken, corrupt idiots who happen to be civil servants
> were responsible for the Walkerton disaster. Where's the lie? The
> real lie is that government can run anything efficiently or
> effectively and McGuinty's collection of idiots has proved that beyond
> a reasonable doubt, as did the conservatives, the NDP and now the
> liberals (again).
Yes, they were civil servants, but they were municipal civil servants,
and municipalities, especially the smaller towns, are notorious for
nepotism and political appointments. The major factor there is the
provincial oversight, and that was removed by provincial polices. It was
the curbing of provincial responsibilities that was blamed for the
problem. Let's face it, there was no precedent for the water tragedy in
Walkerton, and it did not take long to discover the folly of trusting
the municipalities and privatized business.
M I Wakefield
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4b28207c$0$13694$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com...
> E. Barry Bruyea wrote:
>
>> No lie. Two drunken, corrupt idiots who happen to be civil servants
>> were responsible for the Walkerton disaster. Where's the lie? The
>> real lie is that government can run anything efficiently or
>> effectively and McGuinty's collection of idiots has proved that beyond
>> a reasonable doubt, as did the conservatives, the NDP and now the
>> liberals (again).
>
>
> Yes, they were civil servants, but they were municipal civil servants, and
> municipalities, especially the smaller towns, are notorious for nepotism
> and political appointments. The major factor there is the provincial
> oversight, and that was removed by provincial polices.
If I recall correctly, provincial regulation of people in their position had
been previously introduced (Peterson or Rae?), but the Walkerton bozos were
grandfathered in.
Gisele
Thank you!
Gisele
Gisele
news:atsfi5hlnb4h2n1ka...@4ax.com:
> Just how far right, Gisele? Do you really know what the hell you are
> talking about? Or, is the old 'Hidden Agenda" crap?
Read up on Neoconservatism. That fits them perfectly. Example of
NeoCONS, Bush and the Republicans.
Gisele
Roy
> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:27:30 +0000 (UTC), Gisele
>
>
>
>
>
> <ilove...@nospamlycos.com> wrote:
> >E. Barry Bruyea <termlim...@democracy.com> wrote in
> >news:atsfi5hlnb4h2n1ka...@4ax.com:
>
> >> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:05:57 +0000 (UTC), Gisele
> >> <ilove...@nospamlycos.com> wrote:
>
> >>>kmc...@oldshell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote in
> >>>news:D-adnYYYpZ2aXrrW...@vex.net:
>
> that our ever lying premier may be considering fire saleing Crown
> Assets, such as the LCBO, OLG and Hydro One, the very thing they
> screamed their bloody heads off when the conservatives considered
> auctioning off the LCBO and other assets. McGuinty is proving that
> nothing that requires any kind of ethics or honesty is in his day to
> day thinking.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
==
Why is McGuinty such an idiot?
==
Dave Smith
>>> No lie. Two drunken, corrupt idiots who happen to be civil servants
>>> were responsible for the Walkerton disaster. Where's the lie? The
>>> real lie is that government can run anything efficiently or
>>> effectively and McGuinty's collection of idiots has proved that beyond
>>> a reasonable doubt, as did the conservatives, the NDP and now the
>>> liberals (again).
>>
>> Yes, they were civil servants, but they were municipal civil servants, and
>> municipalities, especially the smaller towns, are notorious for nepotism
>> and political appointments. The major factor there is the provincial
>> oversight, and that was removed by provincial polices.
>
> If I recall correctly, provincial regulation of people in their position had
> been previously introduced (Peterson or Rae?), but the Walkerton bozos were
> grandfathered in.
There were requirements introduced under Rae's government for operators
to undergo 40 hours of training, and the Walkerton "bozos" were
grandfathered, along with many others. The report from the inquiry does
not excuse those guys for their negligence and their improper sampling.
It comes down hard on the MOE for its failure to implement legally
binding regulations for water treatment and testing rather than just
issuing guidelines that should be followed.
The MOE had been aware of improper reporting of water problems. After
privatization.... under Harris... it became aware of a problem with
private labs not notifying the MOE. The Minister declined to introduce
legislation or regulations requiring the notifications. It was only
after the Walkerton tragedy that the government introduced regulations
to force private labs to forward adverse test results to the Ministry.
Basically, it amounted to low cost window dressing. The Harris
government seems to have decided that it was cheaper to use private labs
to test water samples. They saved a few bucks on the testing process,
but the money was basically wasted because the MOE was not made aware of
problems when found in those private labs.
The report also slams provincial budget cuts for the problem. The MOE
had already had its budget cut from 1992-1995. By 1998-99, Harris'
government reduced the MOE's budget by a further $200 million, leading
to the Ministry eliminating 750 jobs, 30% of their staff. Those cuts
were made by central agencies of the government and not by the MOE
itself and were not based on an assessments of the Ministry's needs in
order for it to carry out it legal responsibilities.
Cabinet had been warned of the risks of such severe cutbacks. They went
ahead and cut the budget and eliminated all those jobs of the people who
were monitoring public safety.
There is certainly no excuse for the Koebel brothers or the nepotism
that is rampant in small municipalities. While their grandfathering may
have been an issue, the report suggests that the tragedy may not have
happened, or would not have been so wide in scope, had the government..
the politicians, introduced the regulations making the testing and
reporting mandatory, and had the government not cut the funding for the
MOE and laid off the people who were overseeing the safety of our public
water systems.
Those regulations were brought in after the fact. There had been
previous water quality problems, and boil water advisories before this
incident, and there have been water problems since. This tragedy
occurred under the watch of the Harris government and shortly after it's
cuts to the budget of the monitoring agency.
Gisele
>>> >>>Good point but in the end, some parties can't hide what they
>>> >>>would do (in terms of policies). �ｿｽFor instance, if Harper and his
>>> >>>cronies ever got a majority, don't think for one minute they
>>> >>>would remain so "centrist". �ｿｽThey're only doing that now to
>>> >>>placate the "sheeple" as some like to say, and try to make
>>> >>>themselves appear to be Red Tories when in fact, they are so far-
>>> >>>right, they make Americans look Socialist....<g>
>>>
>>> >>>Gisele
>>>
>>> >> Just how far right, Gisele? �ｿｽDo you really know what the hell you
>>> >> are talking about? �ｿｽOr, is the old 'Hidden Agenda" crap?
>>>
>>> >Read up on Neoconservatism. �ｿｽThat fits them perfectly. �ｿｽExample of
>>> >NeoCONS, Bush and the Republicans.
>>>
>>> >Gisele
>>>
>>> More liberal hypocrisy reared it's ugly head today when it was
>>> learned that our ever lying premier may be considering fire saleing
>>> Crown Assets, such as the LCBO, OLG and Hydro One, the very thing
>>> they screamed their bloody heads off when the conservatives
>>> considered auctioning off the LCBO and other assets. �ｿｽMcGuinty is
>>> proving that nothing that requires any kind of ethics or honesty is
>>> in his day to day thinking.- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>==
>>Why is McGuinty such an idiot?
>
>
> He's a liberal, isn't he?
He sure doesn't act like one. He's so far to the right he may as well
join the NeoCONS.
Gisele
SaPeIsMa
>
>
> McGuinty and Campbell are right-wing Libs and they are following
> Flaherty, a NeoCON. If the NeoCONS were so against this, they
> wouldn't have suggested it in the first place.
>
Isn't "right-wing libs" an oxymoron ?
But we shouldn't be surprised to see such from gisele.
Roy
> "Gisele" <ilove...@nospamlycos.com> wrote in message
==
Another "female" to ridicule, eh "SaPeIsMa"? You love to put 'them' in
their place.
==
Gisele
> It was not the "Neocons" who suggested it in the first place. It was
> the "NeoLiberals" back when they were still corrupting government for
> all their buddies. They and Atlantic Canada instantiated the HST.
> Why can't you get that through your head?
But the point is we are talking now, not then. The NeoCONS of today,
namely the Harpocrites, are quite gung-ho for the HST in Ontario, BC and
elsewhere. The original poster made it look like it was solely the Libs
who wanted this. I tried to point out several times (and this is the
last) that the NeoCONS are not only for the HST, they actually encouraged
and voted for it.
Gisele
macksamillion
"E. Barry Bruyea" <terml...@democracy.com> wrote in message
news:civki5118on8aqi96...@4ax.com...
> It was not the "Neocons" who suggested it in the first place. It was
> the "NeoLiberals" back when they were still corrupting government for
> all their buddies. They and Atlantic Canada instantiated the HST.
> Why can't you get that through your head?
Harper seems to like the "suggestions" from the Liberals when they meet with his own
approval of higher taxes, doesn't he?
GST came in under Mulroney. HST is Harper's GST on steroids.
macksamillion
news:civki5118on8aqi96...@4ax.com...
> It was not the "Neocons" who suggested it in the first place. It was
> the "NeoLiberals" back when they were still corrupting government for
> all their buddies. They and Atlantic Canada instantiated the HST.
> Why can't you get that through your head?
And another thing ! ;-)
Story Highlights
� The Maritime HST was introduced in 3 Maritime provinces in 1997 including
Newfoundland/Labrador, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. BC HST is set to be introduced in
2010.
� The Maritime HST REDUCED the combined tax rate upon introduction: Newfoundland (from 19%
to 15% to 13%) and Nova Scotia and New Brunswick (from 18.7% to 15% to 13%). The BC HST
DOES NOT reduce the combined tax rate as it is 12% (7% PST plus 5% GST) making consumer
goods and services more expensive as most items were not previously taxed the 7% PST tax.
� The Atlantic Canada HST has INCREASED capital investment. The B.C. HST should increase
capital investment, but that is yet to be determined.
� The Maritime provinces consulted with business and other industries prior to the
introduction of the Harmonized Sales Tax. British Columbia did not consult with any
industry or consumer group prior to their announcement. The BC Liberal Government also
broke their election promise.
Dave Smith
> And you still can't get it through your head that is wasn't voted on
> or even brought up until McGuinty's liberals initiated the move.
> Nothing the feds vote on regarding the HST is binding on Ontario; only
> what McGuinty's MPP's wanted.
It's an interesting political game. The federal and provincial parties
are basically the same people. The politically active Liberals are
involved in the provincial party and the politically active
Conservatives are involved in both the federal and provincial parties.
Our local Conservative MPP has spoken out against the HST, but the
federal Conservatives enabled it, and the think that they can blame the
HST on the provincial Liberals.