Yippeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ZsaZsa
the best thing that's happened in a very long time.
I was always concerned that if he were elected to 2 terms, then my youngest
child would have lived under a Harris regime for nearly all of her
rememberable childhood. Now part of if can be salvaged.
Richard Henderson
I'm sure you'll wax rhetoric about the poor education system...
Let me tell you something: I was a high school student just before Mr.
Harris was elected premier. And the schools were just as bad as they were
then:
Not enough books, bad attitude teachers, overloaded classes, etc.
You people have such short memories.
The teachers union hates ANYTHING that disrupts their status quo... how many
of you have forgotten Bob Rae and the Social Contract?
At the very least, Mr. Harris from the very beginning said what his plans
were, and he did it.
And 2 times did the majority of Ontarians [sp?] agree.
So, in closing, unless you have an educated (and I don't mean scholarly)
opinion on why you think this is good, shut it!
*Note about the author:
24 years old, high school dropout, self-employed computer consultant. I
don't vote along party lines.
Unlike the vocal minority, I try to educate myself on all sides of the
issues before opening my mouth.
"ZsaZsa" <re...@ng.org> wrote in message
news:5HXy7.24205$YL3.5...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
Richard Henderson
He WAS elected to 2 terms.
Once again, the moronic, yet loud, minority has spoken!
"ZsaZsa" <re...@ng.org> wrote in message
news:5HXy7.24205$YL3.5...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
MT
delivered on a higher percentage of his promises than others. Not sure what
the people who voted for him are complaining about. My guess is that Zsa
Zsa didn't vote PC, but hey, majority rules right?
"Richard Henderson" <box...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:t8Yy7.9121$7Y4.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Micheal Wilson
This makes me sad. I know 7 years is not a long time out of a person's
life, but it is how long I have invested in this man. After we lost the
1993 election, I and some of my fellow federal Tories began doing policy
work for what became the Common Sense Revolution campaign platform. Our
goal was to eliminate waste, like the multiple police forces in the Ottawa
area.
Somewhere along the line, the original goals of the policy planners got
sidetracked. As anyone involved in the Ontario Tory party knows, there are
factions within the party, and the extreme right faction gained influence
around this time. (Mike Heenan, Carrie <something>). Soon policy meetings
became a battle over who could come up with the most radical ideas for cuts.
And anyone who disagreed was the "enemy" (a pamphlet circulated among youth
party members actually used this term to describe those of us in the party
who wanted to focus in other areas as well).
Anyway, I think that the Harris government has done some good things (the
amalgamation of the abovementioned police forces, for instance). But also
there were instances where the party went way too far. My hometown is a
village near Lindsay Ontario, called Fenelon Falls(pop. 1,600). It is in
Victoria County, a rural area with about 60,000 people in total spread over
about 15 townships. Most of the land is farmland, amd there are more cattle
than people.
Last year the Ontario government amalgamated the entire county and
incorporated it into the "City of Kawartha Lakes". Now Fenelon Falls is
just part of some ward, and if my parents want some roadwork done, or if a
farmer wants a permit to build a barn, they are required to apply to the
city council.
I'm not impressed. If anyone wants to get involved, I am going to publish
here the names of some moderate leadership candidates, so when Harris is
replaced we in the party can vote for moderation. Now might be a good time
for those of you who are concerned to purchase a party membership. If
anyone wants to do this, get back to me and I'll find out the info for you.
--
Mike
Don't respond to the neo-con attacks in an angry way, don't let them push
you into becoming like them. It's time for the real conservatives, the
moderates, and anyone else with something thoughtful to say to turn this
back into a discussion group. Eventually the extremists will leave.
JMD
two terms, politicians start doing the job by rote. It has been apparent to
me for some time Harris had it on auto-pilot. With him at the Tory helm,
things looked good for Norman Bates, who looks remarkably like Dalton
McGillicuddy. Now the Tories have a chance for renewal and we may be spared
a huggy-bear Norman regime.
John Dowell
Iconoclast
ZsaZsa wrote:
>
> He resigned, Harris is really leaving!! I am s-o-o-o-o-o-o happy, this is
> the best thing that's happened in a very long time. (snipped)
That remains to be seen. Harris' six years in power have been good for
Ontario, generally. The province has had excellent economic growth,
balanced its budget and had virtually full employment. Things were
much worse under David Peterson and John Rae.
Harris' retirement came as no surprise. Two terms as premier are
long enough. And he is leaving at a good time for him with a
deep recession on the way which he nor any other leader could avoid.
One has to be deeply pessimistic about the future of Ontario and Canada
as a whole. Sept. 11 has changed everything for the worse. If I were
Mike Harris I would want out too. We wish him and his family
well for the future, and compliment him for a job well done.
>
>
> child would have lived under a Harris regime for nearly all of her
> rememberable childhood. Now part of if can be salvaged.
We shall see. Your jubilation may be premature and ill-founded.
stewacide
current government). Many people connect Harris directly to how messed up
our public intuitions have become ... a new leader might actually be good
for the Conservatives (drawing people's attention away from Harris's
legacy).
Additionally, assuming the PC's do lose the next election, does anyone know
if the Liberals have enough support to elect a majority?
(currently there are something like 60 PC's, 10 NDP's, and 35 Lib)
"ZsaZsa" <re...@ng.org> wrote in message
news:5HXy7.24205$YL3.5...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
Ted
Richard Henderson
back it up...
Ted seems to forget our illustrious Premier Mr. Rae, and his great idea to
spend his way out of the recession in the early 90's.
Didn't work...
And if going bankrupt means a balanced budget, then I guess we're bankrupt!
People forget that in a democratic/capitalistic society there are certain
truths: You can only spend more than you make for so long before someone
comes knocking at your door.
Until we are ready to move to a global communist system (and when is that
ever going to happen? It sure didn't behind the Iron Curtain) governments
have an obligation to spend no more than they make.
Sure communism looks good on paper, and I agree. But time and time again it
has been proven not to work in practise.
There are just too few people willing to do whatever it takes for the good
of society instead of looking out for number one.
There. I'm finished ranting.
"Ted" <tjo...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3BCC69E4...@sympatico.ca...
Ted
Richard Henderson wrote:
>
> Please see above post about posting a moronic opinion without any facts to
> back it up...
>
> Ted seems to forget our illustrious Premier Mr. Rae, and his great idea to
> spend his way out of the recession in the early 90's.
>
> Didn't work...
Yes!!!! And thank God we had Harris to make the tough
decisions to get the province back on it's feet.
It was also good to see someone with the balls to stand up to
thoes asshole teachers. And by the way,, You just "got" to
know that it was the teachers who leaked the exams by
publishing them on the internet.
John Carrick
Don't celebrate too soon. There will be a battle for the leadership
between the right-wing extremists who have helped Harris to do so much
harm to Ontario, and the moderates of the P.C. Party.
If one of the wild-eyed libertarian/reform/alliance characters
replaces Harris, we'll have to wait until the next election - still at
least two years away by most calculations - before we'll see any
better performance by an Ontario government on behalf of ordinary
people.
Richard Henderson
"ordinary people" thought his party was doing an okay job...
All you leftists are something else: You whine about democracy this,
democracy that, and when you don't get your way, or the silent majority
doesn't agree with you, yu sit in a corner pouting and spitting vitroic
[sp?], and being petulant to boot.
God, I love ranting.
"John Carrick" <crs...@inforamp.net> wrote in message
news:3bd3f450...@154.11.89.178...
Richard Henderson
Some moron Toronto teacher who thinks that disrupting something they don't
agree with was a good thing...
You know what would be better?
Dock the people's wages who leaked it to pay for rewriting the test and all
associated costs.
Not surprisingly, people don't seem to be so eager to do illegal things when
it hits them directly in the wallet.
"Ted" <tjo...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3BCC7377...@sympatico.ca...
John Carrick
<box...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>At least state why you think it's a good thing:
>
>I'm sure you'll wax rhetoric about the poor education system...
>
>Let me tell you something: I was a high school student just before Mr.
>Harris was elected premier. And the schools were just as bad as they were
>then:
I note that you identify yourself below, with some pride, as a
high-school dropout. Are we entitled to take that fact into account
when we read your opinion of the schools that you attended?
********************************************************************************
>Not enough books, bad attitude teachers, overloaded classes, etc.
********************************************************************************
There is no factual basis for any of those statements.
>You people have such short memories.
Not at all. We can recall many of the destructive actions that Harris
took as premier.
>The teachers union hates ANYTHING that disrupts their status quo..
The job of the Ontario Teachers' Federation (an organisation set up
sixty years ago by a P.C. government, and to which *all* Ontario
public and separate school teachers must belong by law) is to advocate
on behalf of its members.
Do you also get upset when the Canadian Manufacturers Association
speaks out on behalf of industry?
>... how many of you have forgotten Bob Rae and the Social Contract?
Not too many, I hope. It saved the province $9 billion over three
years at a time that the U.S. economy was still in the dumps, and
their deep recession had spilled over into Ontario.
>At the very least, Mr. Harris from the very beginning said what his plans
>were, and he did it.
I see. If O.J.Simpson had announced the double killing ahead of time,
that would have made it all right?
>And 2 times did the majority of Ontarians [sp?] agree.
[1] Rae was unlucky enough to govern through bad economic times that
were not of his making. He was defeated.
[2] Harris took the reins and was lucky enough to govern through fine
economic times that were not of his making He was re-elected.
>So, in closing, unless you have an educated (and I don't mean scholarly)
>opinion on why you think this is good, shut it!
Nice. You take the opportunity to express your opinion, and then you
tell those who disagree with you that they must be quiet.
>*Note about the author:
>24 years old, high school dropout, self-employed computer consultant. I
>don't vote along party lines.
>Unlike the vocal minority, I try to educate myself on all sides of the
>issues before opening my mouth.
You need to try one hell of a lot harder. As it is, you are nothing
but a Harris apologist.
John Carrick
>Agreed, Mike Harris was very upfront with his plans (for a politician) and
>delivered on a higher percentage of his promises than others. Not sure what
>the people who voted for him are complaining about. My guess is that Zsa
>Zsa didn't vote PC, but hey, majority rules right?
If I told you ahead of time that I was going to slash all four tires
of your car, and then I went ahead and did it, would you spend your
time giving me credit for following through on my promises, or would
you be concerned about the condition of your car?
What virtue is there is promising to do numerous things that hurt
ordinary Ontarians, and then doing them?
Ontario would be far better off today, if Harris had *not* kept some
of his promises.
Seven people would likely be alive in Walkerton for instance.
And that would mean that Harris' personal popularity would not have
fallen so low, that he would have to offer his resignation for the
good of his party.
John Carrick
although I never once voted for them, I felt that they provided sound
government to the province, and dealt with Ontarians fairly.
Harris and company have been a totally different bill of goods, and
have destroyed much that was of value here.
I rejoice in his imminent departure, but I fear that he'll be replaced
by someone no better. Too many right-wing crazies are abroad in this
country. Most moderate conservatives are still in retreat.
MT
APPROVED*** (much like the people of Ontario did when they elected Mike
Harris and the PC), I can only hope you will do a good job of it.
Not sure why everybody is trying to dump all the blame of Walkerton on
Harris. True, as top dog in Ontario everything (big enough) evetually
escalates to him. But Walkerton wasn't a case of lack of funding or
policies, it was Stan Koebel (whatever his name is) who directly oversaw the
water quality, knew the test results and deliberately ignored/suppressed the
information.
"John Carrick" <crs...@inforamp.net> wrote in message
news:3bd5f9d7...@154.11.89.178...
John Carrick
>McGillicuddy. Now the Tories have a chance for renewal and we may be spared
>a huggy-bear Norman regime.
Do you people never learn?
[1] When a highly unflattering picture of Jean Chretien was shown on
t.v. by his political opposition, the Canadian people objected so
strongly that the political ad had to be quickly withdrawn.
Attacking McGuinty on the basis of his appearance will only produce
sympathy for him.
[2] It is collegiate to mangle the man's name, because you don't
support him. Try to rise above such childishness. It reflects so
badly on you.
(No, I won't be voting for either McGuinty or Mike II the next time
around.)
Richard Henderson
find a rewarding career regardless of the fact that the education system in
Ontario failed me and many others.
From your tone, you sound elitist.
And you are entitled to take any fact into account, that's your perogative
[sp?]
The only reason I even informed everyone about my situation, past and
present, was to show that I am not some rich WASP... I busted my onion to
get where I am now.
Now, as you did, it's my turn to rebut to your statements:
> There is no factual basis for any of those statements.
Well, other than the first-hand knowledge of what myself and thousands of
other students experiened in high school in the early 90's? That's facts
enough for me.
> Not at all. We can recall many of the destructive actions that Harris
> took as premier.
In your opinion, of course. Many would, and do, disagree.
> The job of the Ontario Teachers' Federation (an organisation set up
> sixty years ago by a P.C. government, and to which *all* Ontario
> public and separate school teachers must belong by law) is to advocate
> on behalf of its members.
Are you insinuating that the OTF has a conspiracy to toe the Tory party
line?
In any case, please provide names, instances, dates.
>
> Do you also get upset when the Canadian Manufacturers Association
> speaks out on behalf of industry?
>
Not at all. Do you get upset when people in the manufacturing industry are
forced to join a union, with no choice?
I get upset with a group that spends all their time complaining about the
current party in power.
> Not too many, I hope. It saved the province $9 billion over three
> years at a time that the U.S. economy was still in the dumps, and
> their deep recession had spilled over into Ontario.
Please provide links to these savings you claim.
The teachers unions in Ontario despised Social Contract.
>
> I see. If O.J.Simpson had announced the double killing ahead of time,
> that would have made it all right?
You honestly expect anyone to agree with the logic here?
This has got to be the most ridiculous statement I've read in a long time.
> >And 2 times did the majority of Ontarians [sp?] agree.
>
> [1] Rae was unlucky enough to govern through bad economic times that
> were not of his making. He was defeated.
But you just said Social Contract saved the people of Ontario 9 million
dollars!!!! Surely people at election time remembered that!
And regardless of economic climate, a good and just politician can triumph.
>
> >So, in closing, unless you have an educated (and I don't mean scholarly)
> >opinion on why you think this is good, shut it!
>
> Nice. You take the opportunity to express your opinion, and then you
> tell those who disagree with you that they must be quiet.
That's not it at all. I have a problem with people saying things without
also trying to justify their point. Saying, "Harris Bad. Socialism good."
makes the author seem like another mindless zombie.
I respect your ability to post your opinions, but not without justifying
your reasoning for having said opinion.
> You need to try one hell of a lot harder. As it is, you are nothing
> but a Harris apologist.
Actually, I'm not. Have I painted you with any labels?
Richard Henderson
The water system in many towns in Ontario have been in trouble for a lot
longer than this current government has been in power.
Once again, short memories.
And the tire line is just laughable.
If I told you I was going to get me and 2000 friends together to have a
nice, peaceful demonstration, and then show up with molotov cocktails,
sticks, rocks, gas masks, ad nauseum, and then destroy other people's
property, would that make it okay?
"John Carrick" <crs...@inforamp.net> wrote in message
news:3bd5f9d7...@154.11.89.178...
John Carrick
>Harris is the ONLY reason that Ontario is not now bankrupted.
That is absolute nonsense.
92% of Ontario's foreign trade is with the U.S.
The U.S. went through the longest economic boom in its history
during Harris' first term in office, and much of that American
prosperity spilled over into Ontario.
A premier from *any* of the three leading Ontario parties would have
presided over good times in the province in 1995 -2000.
If you can't come up with something accurate to say, you really ought
to keep your thoughts to yourself. I'm embarrassed for you,
especially since you identify yourself as "tjones". Although there
are no doubt hundreds of T.Jones's in the province, someone may
associate you with that silly post..
Richard Henderson
Why do you have to resort to being petty in the other posts?
"John Carrick" <crs...@inforamp.net> wrote in message
news:3bd6fbe3...@154.11.89.178...
Richard Henderson
Petty name calling is peurile, at best.
"John Carrick" <crs...@inforamp.net> wrote in message
news:3bd7fe24...@154.11.89.178...
Richard Henderson
Dear Lord! What is going on?
*laugh
"John Carrick" <crs...@inforamp.net> wrote in message
news:3bd900aa...@154.11.89.178...
Wesley Moxam
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:29:12 -0400, "MT" <mt...@idirect.com> wrote:
>
> >Agreed, Mike Harris was very upfront with his plans (for a politician)
and
> >delivered on a higher percentage of his promises than others. Not sure
what
> >the people who voted for him are complaining about. My guess is that Zsa
> >Zsa didn't vote PC, but hey, majority rules right?
>
> If I told you ahead of time that I was going to slash all four tires
> of your car, and then I went ahead and did it, would you spend your
> time giving me credit for following through on my promises, or would
> you be concerned about the condition of your car?
John, if you can get 2 million Ontarians to vote on your promise to slash my
tires, you are welcomed to do it.
-- Wes
Steve Marskell
John Carrick wrote:
>
> > With him at the Tory helm, things looked good for Norman Bates, who looks remarkably like Dalton
> >McGillicuddy. Now the Tories have a chance for renewal and we may be spared
> >a huggy-bear Norman regime.
>
> Do you people never learn?
>
> [1] When a highly unflattering picture of Jean Chretien was shown on
> t.v. by his political opposition, the Canadian people objected so
> strongly that the political ad had to be quickly withdrawn.
Kudos to the effectiveness of the liberal party machine.......getting
their polls to work the phones so well.
Lucas Tam
I was in school before Harris was elected... After he was elected.
There was NO difference.
However, some of the changes he made are for the better... like
standardized testing. It gives everyone a level playing ground.
"ZsaZsa" <re...@ng.org> wrote in
news:5HXy7.24205$YL3.5...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com:
Lucas Tam
news:3bd5f9d7...@154.11.89.178:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:29:12 -0400, "MT" <mt...@idirect.com> wrote:
>
>>Agreed, Mike Harris was very upfront with his plans (for a politician)
>>and delivered on a higher percentage of his promises than others. Not
>>sure what the people who voted for him are complaining about. My guess
>>is that Zsa Zsa didn't vote PC, but hey, majority rules right?
>
> If I told you ahead of time that I was going to slash all four tires
> of your car, and then I went ahead and did it, would you spend your
> time giving me credit for following through on my promises, or would
> you be concerned about the condition of your car?
Well... you asked for it... and you got it.
Lucas Tam
154.11.89.178:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:09:56 -0400, Ted <tjo...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>>Harris is the ONLY reason that Ontario is not now bankrupted.
>
> That is absolute nonsense.
>
> 92% of Ontario's foreign trade is with the U.S.
>
> The U.S. went through the longest economic boom in its history
> during Harris' first term in office, and much of that American
> prosperity spilled over into Ontario.
Ok, good economics helps... but if you spend more than you make... you're
going to have a defict, and the way the NDP spends, there is no way they
would of had a balance budget... hence, Ontario would be broke - IN GOOD
TIMES, now that would be sad wouldn't it?
mr.e
much of little interest
Richard...get over yourself. It's curious how many of you so-called
free-choice, self made paragons of Tory virtue are so quick to blame
others for your own failings. You failed yourself in school. Period.
Grow up and accept your personal responsibility for your lack of
academic success.
mr.e
>
> Agreed, Mike Harris was very upfront with his plans (for a politician) and
> delivered on a higher percentage of his promises than others. Not sure what
> the people who voted for him are complaining about. My guess is that Zsa
> Zsa didn't vote PC, but hey, majority rules right?
shudder to think what would happen if control of education fell into the
hands of the provincial government." "I won't reduce spending in
education" Whoops Lied about that too. Then there's his role in the
murder of Dudley George. Then there's the dead in Walkerton.
Are you as stupid as it seems?
gseiber...@sentex.net
Do you know it was a teacher? Give me name, asshole. Give some
evidence, asshole. Put up or shut up, asshole.
And listen asshole, if you knew anything about the last go round
between the high school teachers and Harris, you'd know that we won!
That mean spirited litle creep Harris has quit, and we won.
Richard Henderson
You know SO much about my life.
And you misread what I wrote.
I NEVER blamed anyone for my academic failings.
I was merely trying to explain my demographic position to people.
And making a comment like that is nothing but immature mudslinging in a
failed attempt to discredit someone else's opinion.
And since you seem to know so much about me, I guess you know that after
leaving high school I enrolled in college, as a mature student (you only
have to be 19). Got my diploma, continued to educate myself, and now at 25
have a successful career as a computer consultant.
So, yeah, I guess I already took personal responsibility and did something
about it.
Now, if YOU have any idea of personal responsibilty and credibility, you'd
publicly apologize for being so presumptuous.
But I'm sure you won't, why would you want to "grow up" (your words). You
seem to enjoy sitting in the sandbox and kicking sand at everyone else.
"mr.e @home.com>" <"anjin<SPAMNOT> wrote in message
news:3BCCB2D6...@home.com...
Humble Wisdom
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:20:12 -0400, "Richard Henderson"
Mr.
> >Harris was elected premier. And the schools were just as bad as
they were
> >then:
>
**********************************************************************
**********
> >Not enough books, bad attitude teachers, overloaded classes, etc.
>
**********************************************************************
**********
>
> There is no factual basis for any of those statements.
Oh of course there is. There have always been lousy teachers,
and I can recall the overloaded classes myself, long before
Harris came to power.
> >The teachers union hates ANYTHING that disrupts their status quo..
>
> The job of the Ontario Teachers' Federation (an organisation set up
> sixty years ago by a P.C. government, and to which *all* Ontario
> public and separate school teachers must belong by law) is to
advocate
> on behalf of its members.>
> Do you also get upset when the Canadian Manufacturers Association
> speaks out on behalf of industry?
Nope. What bothers me is that the OTF _never_ claims to be speaking
on behalf of its teachers. Every ad its ever run against Harris has
claimed
to be on behalf of the children, not the teachers. This, of course, is
nonsense and utterly dishonest. I'm not saying they don't care about
the children or the quality of education, but their primary
consideration
is and always has been the welfare and wealth of its membership. And
most of its fights with Harris have been has been in defense of
teacher
wealth and well being- although they never portrayed it as such.
> You need to try one hell of a lot harder. As it is, you are nothing
> but a Harris apologist.
No, he is someone who works for a living and has his own opinion.
You've never liked people like that.
Humble Wisdom
"Richard Henderson" <box...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lp%y7.128$3v.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> No, I take pride in the face that I was still able to educate myself
and
> find a rewarding career regardless of the fact that the education
system in
> Ontario failed me and many others.
>
> From your tone, you sound elitist.
> And you are entitled to take any fact into account, that's your
perogative
> [sp?]
Actually, he was one of those teachers who do such a lousy job of
educating people.
Humble Wisdom
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:29:12 -0400, "MT" <mt...@idirect.com> wrote:
>
> >Agreed, Mike Harris was very upfront with his plans (for a
politician) and
> >delivered on a higher percentage of his promises than others. Not
sure what
> >the people who voted for him are complaining about. My guess is
that Zsa
> >Zsa didn't vote PC, but hey, majority rules right?
> What virtue is there is promising to do numerous things that hurt
> ordinary Ontarians, and then doing them?
What Harris did didn't hurt ordinary Ontarians. That's why
the voted for him twice, and why they'll probably vote in
his successor.
Humble Wisdom
> MT wrote:
> >
> > Agreed, Mike Harris was very upfront with his plans (for a
politician) and
> > delivered on a higher percentage of his promises than others. Not
sure what
> > the people who voted for him are complaining about. My guess is
that Zsa
> > Zsa didn't vote PC, but hey, majority rules right?
> "I won't take a dime out of health care." Bzzzt he lied about that.
No he didn't.
"I won't reduce spending in
> education" Whoops Lied about that too. Then there's his role in
the
> murder of Dudley George.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
> Then there's the dead in Walkerton.
Too bad they had such incompetent clowns in
their local government, huh?
Stringfellowhaulkeye
policies has made the number of poor people(homeless, the disabled, working
poor) grow so big that eventually someone would have killed him while he's
in-office to give a message to the next Premier and his government and other
leaders to govern for ALL THE PEOPLE, especially the poor.
THE LEASE POOR PEOPLE THEIR ARE THE BETTER WE ALL ARE!
Humble Wisdom
"Micheal Wilson" <Michea...@ooyah.com> wrote in message
news:MHYy7.10502$PA.13...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Somewhere along the line, the original goals of the policy planners
got
> sidetracked. As anyone involved in the Ontario Tory party knows,
there are
> factions within the party, and the extreme right faction gained
influence
> around this time. (Mike Heenan, Carrie <something>). Soon policy
meetings
> became a battle over who could come up with the most radical ideas
for cuts.
Did they or did they not want to balance their budget? What other
way, other than cuts, were there? Mind, I was never in favour of
the tax cuts, but there are plenty of economists who say that
tax cuts stimulate the economy, so who am I to argue?
Nor was I a big fan of amalgamation, but <shrug> it made
sense in some places, like Ottawa and Toronto.
> I'm not impressed. If anyone wants to get involved, I am going to
publish
> here the names of some moderate leadership candidates,
What's "moderate" mean to you? Someone who'll take us back
into deficit territory and raise taxes? I think you're definition
of "moderate" means "Liberal".
Humble Wisdom
> > With him at the Tory helm, things looked good for Norman Bates,
who looks remarkably like Dalton
> >McGillicuddy. Now the Tories have a chance for renewal and we may
be spared
> >a huggy-bear Norman regime.
> support him. Try to rise above such childishness. It reflects so
> badly on you.
You listen to Carrick, fellahs. He's no hypocrite. Why,
day in and day out he criticised those who made fun
of Stockwell Day's name. Didn't ya, Carrick? Ya
weasel?
Richard Henderson
God, how embarrassing that someone who writes like this likes the same ideas
I do... oh, well.... stupid people are allowed to have an opinion too....
see many of their opinions in the previous posts.
Spamula
>He resigned, Harris is really leaving!! I am s-o-o-o-o-o-o happy, this is
>the best thing that's happened in a very long time.
>
So Harris rides off into the Autumn sunset on the back of his wife's
Harley?
E. Barry Bruyea
>I'm glad, too, Liz but probably for quite different reasons than you. After
>two terms, politicians start doing the job by rote. It has been apparent to
>me for some time Harris had it on auto-pilot. With him at the Tory helm,
>things looked good for Norman Bates, who looks remarkably like Dalton
>McGillicuddy. Now the Tories have a chance for renewal and we may be spared
>a huggy-bear Norman regime.
>
>John Dowell
Harris' resignation could very well revitalize some of the Young Turks
in the PC party. It will be an interesting couple of years. The
thought of Dalton becoming premier is enough to make your blood run
cold. The teachers should worry about the possibility of a Dalton
regime. He might bring up his idea to take away their right to strike
again.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Ted
Humble Wisdom wrote:
> >Then there's his role in the murder of Dudley George.
>
> Good riddance to bad rubbish.
You can say that again!!!!!!!!
>
> > Then there's the dead in Walkerton.
>
> Too bad they had such incompetent clowns in
> their local government, huh?
Why chew at Harris, those assholes in the town should have
been put against a wall and shot.
Ted
Jay
is unable to take care of is:
There are too groups in this country headed by people like Thobani
sucking the taxpayer dry.
People like Harris are part of the solution, not the problem.
PS, You better learn to write properly...that could be one of the
reasons you need help from the gov't.
Honest John
wrote:
>Don't celebrate too soon. There will be a battle for the leadership
>between the right-wing extremists who have helped Harris to do so much
>harm to Ontario, and the moderates of the P.C. Party.
>
>If one of the wild-eyed libertarian/reform/alliance characters
>replaces Harris, we'll have to wait until the next election - still at
>least two years away by most calculations - before we'll see any
>better performance by an Ontario government on behalf of ordinary
>people.
Mr. Harris has done an excellent job but as I posted several months
back it is time for him to go so a new leader can build support for a
third P.C. term.
Honest John
wrote:
>Seven people would likely be alive in Walkerton for instance.
You mean Mr. Harris promised that he would not fire the drunken
incompetent running the Walkerton water department.
_ircle
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:20:12 -0400, "Richard Henderson"
>
> >The teachers union hates ANYTHING that disrupts their status quo..
>
>
> [2] Harris took the reins and was lucky enough to govern through fine
> economic times that were not of his making He was re-elected.
If they where such 'fine economic times', than why did the hospitals and welfare
suffer disastrous cutbacks, it was because of the Chretien Liberals sitting on
billions of surplus funds, causing Harris to make tough decisions. If blame should
be given, it's not Harris' fault, but Chretien's do-nothing Liberals fault.
Don Wagner
<gseiber...@sentex.net> wrote in message news:3bccb176...@news.sentex.net...
By the sound of things, your teachers were the same kind of
fucking idiot that you turned into. Sounds like the only losers
were the students, not that you give a fuck as long as you
won. Asshole.
Don Wagner
>
>
Micheal Wilson
"Humble Wisdom" <B9...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PK2z7.64175$5h5.27...@news3.rdc2.on.home.com...
>
> "Micheal Wilson" <Michea...@ooyah.com> wrote in message
> news:MHYy7.10502$PA.13...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> > Somewhere along the line, the original goals of the policy planners
> got
> > sidetracked. As anyone involved in the Ontario Tory party knows,
> there are
> > factions within the party, and the extreme right faction gained
> influence
> > around this time. (Mike Heenan, Carrie <something>). Soon policy
> meetings
> > became a battle over who could come up with the most radical ideas
> for cuts.
>
> Did they or did they not want to balance their budget? What other
> way, other than cuts, were there? Mind, I was never in favour of
> the tax cuts, but there are plenty of economists who say that
> tax cuts stimulate the economy, so who am I to argue?
Tax cuts can stimulate the economy under ideal circumstances. However, our
economy usually moves in cycles, from a period of strength to a period of
recession, and back. Right now in BC, the new Liberal government is having
to decide whether to abandon the tax cutting agenda for now or else accept
that they are going to have to fund those tax cuts with deficit spending.
This has nothing to do with the legacy of the NDP, or the debt that they
left.
> Nor was I a big fan of amalgamation, but <shrug> it made
> sense in some places, like Ottawa and Toronto.
It did in Toronto, an area which was essentially english speaking with large
ethnic groups in each of the former cities. Nobody really lost their
identity, and some are even suggesting that Mississauga could be amalgamated
into the GTA as well. Ottawa is a bit different, some of the former cities
like Vanier and Orleans were predominantly French, but it seems to have
worked out OK.
However amalgamating into a city, a bunch of villages which are separated by
miles and miles of fencerows built to keep the cattle in? That makes zero
sense. How many cities have cattle, sheep, skunks, moose, forests, gravel
pits, lakes, cottages, campgrounds and rock-cuts?
> > I'm not impressed. If anyone wants to get involved, I am going to
> publish
> > here the names of some moderate leadership candidates,
>
> What's "moderate" mean to you? Someone who'll take us back
> into deficit territory and raise taxes? I think you're definition
> of "moderate" means "Liberal".
>
Moderate means someone who will not alienate teachers, so that students no
longer get to play football and other extra-curricular sports?
Moderate means not privatizing for the sake of privatizing. Do we want our
hydro rates to skyrocket like they did in California after the utility there
was privatized?
Moderate means someone like Bill Davis, a conservative for whom social
assistance was not a filthy word. The truth is that even Mike Harris is not
really that bad of a person. But he is weak, and he has allowed the extreme
elements of the party to have too much influence.
--
Mike
Don't respond to the neo-con attacks in an angry way, don't let them push
you into becoming like them. It's time for the real conservatives, the
moderates, and anyone else with something thoughtful to say to turn this
back into a discussion group. Eventually the extremists will leave.
Micheal Wilson
> Yes, I lived under Ontario P.C. governments for over forty years, and
> although I never once voted for them, I felt that they provided sound
> government to the province, and dealt with Ontarians fairly.
>
> Harris and company have been a totally different bill of goods, and
> have destroyed much that was of value here.
>
> I rejoice in his imminent departure, but I fear that he'll be replaced
> by someone no better. Too many right-wing crazies are abroad in this
> country. Most moderate conservatives are still in retreat.
We'll be back.
ZsaZsa
> >
> > >Agreed, Mike Harris was very upfront with his plans (for a
> politician) and
> > >delivered on a higher percentage of his promises than others. Not
> sure what
> > >the people who voted for him are complaining about. My guess is
> that Zsa
> > >Zsa didn't vote PC, but hey, majority rules right?
>
> > What virtue is there is promising to do numerous things that hurt
> > ordinary Ontarians, and then doing them?
>
> What Harris did didn't hurt ordinary Ontarians.
He hurt people who were relying on the Home Oxygen Program, he eliminated
goverment payments for the highly compressed canisters of oxygen that can be
worn, the people who relied on those can no longer leave their homes,
because the non-compressd stuff comes in huge tanks. He hurt people with
disabled children. He hurt people who were working in sweatshops, and tried
to unionize. When he cut Jobs Ontario he hurt people who were working at
those jobs, and in many cases those jobs had a daycare component which
provided daycare spaces also to "ordinary" people not enrolled in the Jobs
Ontario program, those families lost their daycare too. When they closed
all the provincial halfway houses with NO notice, people (mainly men) who
were near the end of their sentences, and living in those halfway houses,
holding down jobs, and supporting their families, they hurt those people,
their families and their employers. He hurt me, and my kids. I found out
today I have 2 choices, I can forego overtime, or I can forego
time-and-a-half. I can't afford to do either.
>That's why
> the voted for him twice, and why they'll probably vote in
> his successor.
Bitter angry people voted for Harris to see thier favourite whipping boy get
kicked in the head. whether it was teachers, civil servants, welfare
recipients. This was and is ugly, it is not leadership, it is
hatemongering, and it has polarized the population.
>
>
ZsaZsa
news:3bccec38...@news1.on.sympatico.ca...
> "ZsaZsa" <re...@ng.org> wrote:
>
> >He resigned, Harris is really leaving!! I am s-o-o-o-o-o-o happy, this
is
> >the best thing that's happened in a very long time.
> >
> So Harris rides off into the Autumn sunset on the back of his wife's
> Harley?
>
Here's how the Beeb saw it
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1602000/1602933.stm
The caption under the picture says "Mr Harris' six years in office were
marked by scandal" * The sub-head is "Scandals".
ZsaZsa
> At least state why you think it's a good thing:
For reasons too numerous to count.
>
> I'm sure you'll wax rhetoric about the poor education system...
Now, why would you think that?
>
> Let me tell you something: I was a high school student just before Mr.
Oh, I see, you didn't really think that, you just wanted to change the
subject and toot your own horn
> Harris was elected premier. And the schools were just as bad as they were
> then:
> Not enough books, bad attitude teachers, overloaded classes, etc.
>
> You people have such short memories.
> The teachers union hates ANYTHING that disrupts their status quo... how
many
> of you have forgotten Bob Rae and the Social Contract?
Certainly not me, and I throw it in his face every chance I get.
>
> At the very least, Mr. Harris from the very beginning said what his plans
> were, and he did it.
Bullshit, lots of things he said he'd do he didn't follow through on, like
privatizing the LCBO. ANd other things he never mentioned until he sprung
them on the populace, like the forced amalgamation in Toronto.
> And 2 times did the majority of Ontarians [sp?] agree.
Uh, I don't think Ontario has had a premier elected by a majority of the
popualtion since I've lived here.
>
> So, in closing, unless you have an educated (and I don't mean scholarly)
> opinion on why you think this is good, shut it!
Fuck you, windbag!
>
> *Note about the author:
> 24 years old, high school dropout, self-employed computer consultant. I
Well, mr computer consultant, why don't you learn not to top post? Are you
self-employed because no-one will hire you?
> don't vote along party lines.
> Unlike the vocal minority, I try to educate myself on all sides of the
> issues before opening my mouth.
Oh really, yet everything you have written here is incorrect, both your
allegations of fact, and your speculation about what I was going to "wax
rhetoric" about/
Geoffrey Gies
ZsaZsa <re...@ng.org> wrote:
>
>Bitter angry people voted for Harris to see thier favourite whipping boy get
>kicked in the head. whether it was teachers, civil servants, welfare
>recipients. This was and is ugly, it is not leadership, it is
>hatemongering, and it has polarized the population.
>
The Ontario Tory carcass pulled a Mulroney and lies at the side
of the road battered and bleeding. Please do not resuscitate.
For the most part, the public has been spared knowledge of the
sleazy deals which are their legacy. The costs (both social and fiscal)
will be borne by the electorate for some time. The term
"responsibility" manipulated such that it has become fashionable to deny
negative implications resulting from policy decisions. Business does
its own bidding without regard for broader implications on how it
affects Ontarians.
We have traversed the divide from forward thinking
environmentally to cesspit of North America. Quite the legacy to
forward our offspring (who may well have difficulty in appreciating this
as the province elected to wage war against educators for the last six
years).
Greed does not equate with need. Protecting white collar
criminals while villainising protestors does not make sense. We
(collectively) have been stuck with a hefty mortgage on our (collective)
futures as a result of this administration. Seeing the head rat abandon
the boat as it flounders upon meeting the tip of the iceberg should be
heeded as warning. Rough waters lie ahead.
--
Mr. Giuliani urged for calm and called for a complete evacuation
of lower Manhattan. -Globe and Mail, Tuesday Sept. 11, 2001
Richard Henderson
I haven't got my fill yet!
"Geoffrey Gies" <geof...@iguana.reptiles.org> wrote in message
news:9qjof1$62v$1...@news.tht.net...
Richard Henderson
intelligently:
"fuck you, windbag" just shows how rude, crass and arrogant you are.
My comment just stated that if you're going to state an opinion, you should
at least be willing to provide evidence and situations to back it up.
For example, your "Home Oxygen" post was well written.
Personally insulting someone else, and swearing at them just unveils you as
the low-class (and I don't mean economically speaking) person that you are.
"ZsaZsa" <re...@ng.org> wrote in message
news:zu9z7.26821$YL3.6...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
nkennedy
respond
intelligently:
"fuck you, windbag" just shows how rude, crass and arrogant you
You forgot to mention, that the main effect her honest comment was to
give you a chance to duck. Why are you self employed?
Neil K
Richard Henderson
corporations... made quite a large number of contacts, and now run a pretty
successful consulting firm.
So why am I self-employed? Because there's a market for my services; and
honestly, I was tired of the companies I worked for making well over 100
bucks an hour for my time and not sharing it.
"nkennedy" <nken...@seascape.ns.ca> wrote in message
news:3BCDA3C8...@seascape.ns.ca...
Richard Henderson
"nkennedy" <nken...@seascape.ns.ca> wrote in message
news:3BCDA3C8...@seascape.ns.ca...
John Ramsay
> > On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:20:12 -0400, "Richard Henderson"
> Mr.
> they were
> > >then:
>
> >
> **********
> > >Not enough books, bad attitude teachers, overloaded classes, etc.
> >
> **********
> >
> > There is no factual basis for any of those statements.
>
> Oh of course there is. There have always been lousy teachers,
> and I can recall the overloaded classes myself, long before
> Harris came to power.
>
> > >The teachers union hates ANYTHING that disrupts their status quo..
> >
> > sixty years ago by a P.C. government, and to which *all* Ontario
> > public and separate school teachers must belong by law) is to
> advocate
> > on behalf of its members.>
> > Do you also get upset when the Canadian Manufacturers Association
> > speaks out on behalf of industry?
>
> Nope. What bothers me is that the OTF _never_ claims to be speaking
> on behalf of its teachers. Every ad its ever run against Harris has
> claimed
> to be on behalf of the children, not the teachers. This, of course, is
> nonsense and utterly dishonest. I'm not saying they don't care about
> the children or the quality of education, but their primary
> consideration
> is and always has been the welfare and wealth of its membership. And
> most of its fights with Harris have been has been in defense of
> teacher
> wealth and well being- although they never portrayed it as such.
>
The Tory first-strike ads launched against the teachers claimed to be
only for the good of the students.
Very difficult for the teacher federations to counteract.
As for teacher wealth, the teachers had no pay raises for 8 years
before 1997, so I don't buy your teacher wealth slam. They did not
strike in 1997 for more money. The teachers gave up 2 weeks salary in
the strike of 97. How much salary did Mikey give up?
And if you really thought you could improve high school education by
assigning each teacher an additional class you're as dumb as Mike
Harris.
Janet Ecker's latest presentation to cabinet admitted the Ontario
educational system is badly screwed up. The answer : Spend millions on
advertising instead of putting the money into education.
> > You need to try one hell of a lot harder. As it is, you are nothing
> > but a Harris apologist.
>
> No, he is someone who works for a living and has his own opinion.
> You've never liked people like that.
Harris works for a living? The only time he ever worked was as a teacher
and he was a failure at that.
nkennedy
and
honestly, I was tired of the companies I worked for making well over 100
You are to be lauded for your awareness.
But why are you surprised when groups of people, called countries, get
pissed off with US Monopoly Capitalism.
Neil K
nkennedy
the sake of your business development, I hope you develop a
"thicker skin"
As you spend a bit of time here you will understand, that ZsaZsa's
comment was not, in fact, "personal", but just a bit of colour.
Neil K
ZsaZsa
And when he reposted it, he snipped the part showing that it was in response
to the following comment of his:
"So, in closing, unless you have an educated (and I don't mean scholarly)
opinion on why you think this is good, shut it!"
So, as well as trying to dictate how and when other people post, he claims
rudeness as his exclusive domain.
ZsaZsa
> oh, I forgot.
> He WAS elected to 2 terms.
>
> Once again, the moronic, yet loud, minority has spoken!
You are an illiterate fool. I said "I *was* always concerned", fyi, was is
past tense. After experiencing life in Ontario for a few weeks into his
first term, I began to consider the possible effects on my children. I also
looked back on my own childhood, and I have many early memories of what life
was like in my family, my school, and my immediate community. I don't have
a strong sense of what like was like in the broader community in my early
years. I realized that my eldest child had a pretty good sense of civic
life already, but that if Harris finished his first term, was re-elected,
and completed a second term, my youngest may acquire most of her childhood
public awareness under a hostile regime. I am sure that everyone else who
read this, whether they agree with me or not, understood what I was saying.
Why didn't you?
John Carrick
wrote:
(I still despise your anonymity, but for a change you wrote a post
that was reasonably measured and sane, and I am answering it in a
civil fashion.)
>> He resigned, Harris is really leaving!! I am s-o-o-o-o-o-o happy, this is
>> the best thing that's happened in a very long time. (snipped)
>
>That remains to be seen. Harris' six years in power have been good for
>Ontario, generally. The province has had excellent economic growth,
>balanced its budget and had virtually full employment. Things were
>much worse under David Peterson and John Rae.
[1] It is *Bob* Rae. You're welcome.
[2] 92% of Ontario's exports go to the U.S. (One of Harris'
ministers made this statement on T.V. this week. The figure coincides
with what many others of all parties have been saying for months.
You can trust it to be true.)
When the U.S. is in recession, as it was during most of Rae's term,
Ontario suffers badly.
When the U.S. is booming, as it has been up until the last several
months of Mike Harris' term, Ontario prospers.
Please deal with the following two facts for me: Don't ignore them.
Don't avoid them. Don't snip them. Please, respond to them.
(You are anonymous...how can it hurt you to respond to me?)
A. It didn't really matter who was premier of Ontario 1990-1995. The
province would have gone through an economic downturn.
B. It didn't really matter who was premier from 1995-2000. The
province would have gone through an economic upturn.
(Yes, there might have been small differences in how bad things got
or how good they got, but there would have been a "bust" in the one
case and a "boom" in the other.)
That being the case, can you not see how meaningless it is to give
Mike Harris credit for increasing employment and reducing the welfare
roles? Can you see that the U.S. economy decided that for us?
No, I don't suppose you can.
E. Barry Bruyea
WOW! You win the Cliche and Mantra award for 2001! Had the pamphlet
right in front of you, I bet!
John Carrick
wrote:
>MT wrote:
>>
>> Agreed, Mike Harris was very upfront with his plans (for a politician) and
>> delivered on a higher percentage of his promises than others. Not sure what
>> the people who voted for him are complaining about. My guess is that Zsa
>> Zsa didn't vote PC, but hey, majority rules right?
>"I won't take a dime out of health care." Bzzzt he lied about that. "I
>shudder to think what would happen if control of education fell into the
>hands of the provincial government." "I won't reduce spending in
>education" Whoops Lied about that too. Then there's his role in the
>murder of Dudley George. Then there's the dead in Walkerton.
>Are you as stupid as it seems?
As I have said to another correspondent here, promising to do some
very bad things, and then following through on your promise. is
nothing to be proud of.
It is as if I promised to fire-bomb someone's house.
Then did it.
And he stood outside the smoldering ruins, and said, "You know, I have
to give him credit for fulfilling his promise to me."
Harris has been a major calamity for this province. It will take
decades to undo the harm that he and his people have done.
John Carrick
>
>
>Humble Wisdom wrote:
>> >Then there's his role in the murder of Dudley George.
>>
>> Good riddance to bad rubbish.
>
>You can say that again!!!!!!!!
>>
>> > Then there's the dead in Walkerton.
>>
>> Too bad they had such incompetent clowns in
>> their local government, huh?
>
>Why chew at Harris, those assholes in the town should have
>been put against a wall and shot.
I take it that you don't mean that literally. We don't have the death
penalty in this country.
When the report of the commission is written, I expect that blame for
the seven deaths and the thousands of illnesses will be *shared*
between local people and the provincial government.
Anyone who says that either was not to blame is a partisan fool.
"My party, right or wrong" is just bloody stupidity.
Stop defending *everything* that your party does. Stop pretending
that it never gets anything wrong.
Grow up a little.
His Boy Elroy
discussion. From your level of articulation you are clearly an intelligent
person and there's certainly nothing like a "Code Blue" cry for help to get
the rest of us running to save your poor socialism-infected mind.
That being said, I will leave "Zsa Zsa" to the reading of our myriad
responses and devote myself to a response to the parent e-mail of this tree,
but once again, "FULL MARKS, "ZSA ZSA""!! Your cry for guidance has shone
like a beacon in this time of darkness!! I am normally A-political in
newsgroups because I want exchange of information, not bickering like
children (it bores me), but your need for help has caused an ever-ice-ning
tear to form on my severely-wanting-in-sincerity-and-compassion-right-wing
cheek.
To the parent e-mail I'm addressing:
You want an even scarier thought (not that in a BILLION eons it could ever
happen)? How about Howard Hampton as Premier?? The thought makes me want to
go running naked and screaming into the night with a lampshade on my head.
:-)
My attitude about politicians (and lawyers, since most politicians start out
as such) is along the line of, "Come the revolution..." (you know the rest).
Anyone with non-situational ethics (no matter what they may be) cannot help
but feel the same way IMHO.
And then along came Mike. (In our home we jokingly/affectionately refer to
him as "Uncle Mike"). Rarely in the history of our country (or indeed many
others) has a finer man ever been in public office.
LET'S DROP "PARTY" LINES HERE:
Let's forget that we're talking about Mike Harris. Let's imagine an
uber-politician. Let's call him Joe People. Again, forget we're talking
about Mike!!!
Joe People says, "If you vote for me I will do X." People believe Joe and
so they vote for Joe People.
Joe does X. And the people say, "Thank you." We have a return to Democracy
(remember that one-citizen-one-vote arcane idea that actually meant
something before unions and special interest groups?)
Joe People is elected (overwhelmingly). Easy victory. Why???? People didn't
vote so much for Mr. Harris as they did for a return to old-fashioned
democracy.
He told us up front that if WE, THE PEOPLE elected him, that he would do
this, this, and this. THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of Ontarians felt that what
he said he would do would be a good idea and long overdue to try and offset
the damage incurred in Ontario from years and years of vote-buying by the
NDP. Vote-buying did I say?? YUP!!
The NDP (then AND now) say to the populace, "Want a free lunch?? Vote for us
and you and the generations of dependant offspring you'll create can suck at
the government teat until your tummies explode for, we will not care whether
you genuinely need the assistance of our caring society, we will distinguish
not between those slowly bleeding to death and crying for well-deserved help
and the legions of vampires feigning need in order to bleed dry those still
standing. So those too lazy to reach for the remote let out a
Homer-Simpson-like "Woo, Woo" and vote NDP so they don't have to miss Oprah
or actually take responsibility for themselves.
The NDP then asks themselves, "hey, wait a minute, those that don't work
don't have money to fund our election. We will get the votes as there's no
shortage of lazy asses anywhere, but how to get the money we need to let
people know that if they vote for us we will rob the rich and middle class
to give to the useless?? What shall we do???" So some lawyer sees the
opportunity to earn a few more pieces of silver and so he suggests the NDP
and the Unions climb into bed. Ben D'Mover, LLB (for a large "consultant
fee") says to aforementioned NDP, "The rank and file of the unions are YOUR
kind of people. They are, by and large, lazy slack-asses looking for an
excuse to do as little as possible in a day. Difference is, THESE lazy
slack-asses have organized into a mafia-like hydra so they can blackmail
business into paying them exhorbiant wages to do work that a well-trained
monkey or well-programmed robot could do. SWEET!!!" "Wish I'D thought of
it", Mr. D'Mover says to himself (and instantly he recognizes his own
voice).
Anyway...
Mr.Harris, I salute you. Ontario has suffered it's greatest loss in it's
history with your resignation, but based on my perception of what's
happening you've decided a) after giving a good portion of your life to
Ontario you've given enough (I must agree, my honourable friend) b) reading
between the lines, you want your family back and that means giving up your
job. How many of us out there can relate to that decision?? Bon Fortune,
"Uncle Mike".j
~~HBE
"E. Barry Bruyea" <al...@brokenmoon.com> wrote in message
news:3bccc258...@nntp.uunet.ca...
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:54:36 GMT, "JMD" <jdowe...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm glad, too, Liz but probably for quite different reasons than you.
After
> >two terms, politicians start doing the job by rote. It has been apparent
to
> >me for some time Harris had it on auto-pilot. With him at the Tory helm,
> >things looked good for Norman Bates, who looks remarkably like Dalton
> >McGillicuddy. Now the Tories have a chance for renewal and we may be
spared
> >a huggy-bear Norman regime.
> >
> >John Dowell
>
> Harris' resignation could very well revitalize some of the Young Turks
> in the PC party. It will be an interesting couple of years. The
> thought of Dalton becoming premier is enough to make your blood run
> cold. The teachers should worry about the possibility of a Dalton
> regime. He might bring up his idea to take away their right to strike
> again.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Richard Henderson
I'm more than aware that the system doesn't work for everyone, even in ideal
situations.
But this is the price price of our democratic society: if you don't like it,
then fine, voice your opinion, and hope to god that enough people agree with
you to make a change on election day.
"nkennedy" <nken...@seascape.ns.ca> wrote in message
news:3BCDB692...@seascape.ns.ca...
Richard Henderson
Regardless of how thick my skin is, that kind of "colour" is boorish and
rude.
And that speaks volumes about the character of the poster.
"nkennedy" <nken...@seascape.ns.ca> wrote in message
news:3BCDB7DC...@seascape.ns.ca...
nkennedy
To quote those who knew who you were immediately: "fuck you, windbag"
Neil K
MT
do the things he said he would. By and large, Mike Harris has. Those who
voted for him have nothing to complain about.
Of course not everybody voted for Harris, they disagreed with him then, they
probably disagree with him now. They have a right to be upset with his
actions (mostly cost-cutting related), but majority rules in a democracy.
"His Boy Elroy" <astrosboy@"NOSPAM"home.com> wrote in message
news:lKlz7.28318$YL3.7...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> ~~HBE
Spamula
<str...@fellow.haulkeye> wrote:
>He's getting out NOW because he's becoming afraid for his life! His
>policies has made the number of poor people(homeless, the disabled, working
>poor) grow so big that eventually someone would have killed him while he's
>in-office to give a message to the next Premier and his government and other
>leaders to govern for ALL THE PEOPLE, especially the poor.
>
>THE LEASE POOR PEOPLE THEIR ARE THE BETTER WE ALL ARE!
>
Harris was a gaslicker of the rich. The poorer you were, the more
contempt his remarks indicated he had for you, e.g. the "they'll only
spend it on beer" supplement for pregnant welfare moms, and his recent
remark about winning the lottery and still wanting to collect welfare
showed his contempt for the "greed" of those at the bottom of the
economic pie. Meanwhile, the wealth gap continued to widen. Gated
communities and Mercedes for the few, and part-time minimum wage
no-benefits slavery for most, who can shop for "recycled" clothes at
Value Village and eat tuna. No wonder car sales are down.
"Two percent should be more than enough for anyone" said the
hypocrite, as he gave himself twenty times that.
Of course, minimum wage workers don't need ANY raise, in spite of
rents skyrocketing, home heating costs increasing 300%. When did you
last see a 2% price hike in the grocery store?
A large company defaulted on a loan guaranteed by the province, and
taxpayers got stung for $100 Million. Did the company get cut off from
the trough? No. But, tell a little white lie, or forget something on a
welfare application, and you're cut off FOR LIFE!
It's draconian measures for the poor, and "above the law" for the
rich. Among other goodies heard on the news, required annual
inspections for nursing homes not done.
Remember that $200 cheque everyone got (unless you were too poor to
pay taxes and really needed it). Boy, that didn't go far. Thanks to
the Harris "revenue-neutral" <cough> "downloading", my property taxes
went up a lot more than that. And speaking of taxes, have you ever
visited the website of piratized Ontario Assessment Corporation, where
they wax eloquent on their accuracy and honesty? (Excuse me while my
laughter subsides). I own some acreage in south eastern Ontario - what
real estate agents refer to as "recreational" or "hunting" property.
In other words, a few acres of rock and swamp not worth very much.
Taxes were minimal (as they should have been - no services were used
or provided) with the normal annual increments. When Harricide swept
the province, my assessment skyrocketed to 300% of the actual value of
the property (established by local real estate and neighbouring
acreage selling prices). No doubt they felt safe in pulling this
ripoff, because the dollar amount wasn't that great, and to appeal
meant a day off, and a trip to the area assessment office. But after
paying one year, I had enough, and, as the assessment form reccomends,
appealed to the assessment office. They reduced it to 140% of actual
value, still a ripoff. This year, they got greedy again, and increased
it to 200%. I obtained assessments for the adjacent properties (all in
line with actual values) and filed an appeal with the assessment
review board, at a cost of $50, non-refundable, up from the $20
refundable fee originally imposed by Harris gov't. (Remember that "2%
should be enough for anyone"? Funny how this price hike (gouge) wasn't
publicized!). A week prior to the scheduled hearing before the
assessment review board, the tax assesor phoned, offering to reduce
the assessment to the exact amount of the real estate appraisal, to
"save you taking a day off work." IOW, the ripoff bastard knew the
real value of the property, and didn't want to be embarrassed in front
of the review board. And, judging from my complaint number, an awful
ot of people were appealing. So much for "accuracy".
Shysters. Nothing but an extortion racket, having to PAY to get a fair
assessment! And a few days later, I hear on the CBC news that Harris
wants to get rid of Tribunals like the Assesment Review Board! Gee, I
wonder why?
Like quite a few others, I have a car that I don't drive in the
winter. It is an older convertible, nothing of value to a "collector"
but it is my hobby, and like others with a favourite vehicle, it is
meticulously maintained. So, in the spring, I park my winter car, and
paid $10 to the MOT to transfer the plates to the convertible for the
summer. Comes fall, and I go to transfer the plates back. "All
transfers now require an emission test." But, the vehicle I want to
put the plates back on just had it's emission test in April, and was
only driven 300 kilometers before being parked for the summer!
Of course, because it's not plated, not only must I now get an
emmission test, but I have to have the car TOWED there! This is the
Harris genius's idea of protecting the environment - by making
well-maintained, low mileage vehicles get tested every 6 months!
At least previous governments had the brains to realize that
sometimes, exemptions are in order, for instance if the vehicle goes
to a spouse or child! Meanwhile, anyone can pound the highway for two
years, put 200,000 km on a car, never do any maintenance, before the
test is required again.
I called my local "Mike's Minion" MPP and complained. "It's policy"
was the retort. End of discussion. So much for democracy. I pointed
out that over 80% of vehicles passed this test, which most states
have abandoned, switching to more accurate roadside sampling with a
"gun", like radar. "Where did you get that figure from?" "The MOT."
"Oh, no, it's much lower than that!" BS. Actually, it's over 90%, but
why waste breath on these arrogant liars. So, I left the car parked,
and the plates on the (unused) convertible. Screw you, Mike. A little
less insurance money in the economy.
Lessee, property tax increase, $320, tax appeal filing fee $50, six
months licence plate wasted $35 - gee, that $200 didn't go very far,
did it Mike! The lord giveth, and the lord taketh away.
Ontario's open for business, and Harris believes in competition. Have
you reaped the benefits of compettition in home heating, thanks to
Ontario Gas Marketing yet? Have you read the fine print in the
contracts from "gas suppleirs"? Gee, the one I saw said in the fine
print that only the first 1500 people who signed up would get it at
the advertised (HIGH) price! Nothing like playing the lottery for home
heating! What a marketing ploy - where did that come from, a
penitentiary?
And, once you sign up - where's the "competition"? You're locked in!
I can't wait until electricity goes the same route. Thanks, Mike.
PS. Read the book on the Dudley George shooting.
Stringfellowhaulkeye
I'm mildely dislexic! Yea you should be embarrassed. Of our eduaction
system. It failed me in the 70's and 80's.
nkennedy
Yeah?? Me too... In fact my mother was one of the founders of DAMM.
Manitoba Mothers Against Dyslexia.
Neil K
Richard Henderson
You took that snippet out of context. I was referring to making broad
statements and not stating any facts to back it up...
When you said, "Harris bad.", and you don't give exact reasons why, then
your opinions have no weight.
You obviously either just sit around, trying to flame other people, or
ignore posts that directly rebut you.
For example, I had no problem lauding you for your "Home Oxygen" post, and
said it.
Find the post. It's here.
And yes, I believe I already admitted that my statement was a tad curt, and
I'm pretty sure I apologized for it.
If not, I am now.
Now, do YOU have anything interesting other than regurgitated rhetoric?
I'm listening....
"ZsaZsa" <re...@ng.org> wrote in message
news:eNjz7.28113$YL3.6...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
Richard Henderson
Shall I pick apart the poor grammar/spelling/typos in some of your posts?
Does that make you an illiterate fool?
Well, you're certainly proving yourself an a bitter close-minded person who
feels like you got the short end of the stick.
"ZsaZsa" <re...@ng.org> wrote in message
news:l5kz7.28120$YL3.6...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
Gerry Carter
<snip>
>
> A. It didn't really matter who was premier of Ontario 1990-1995. The
> province would have gone through an economic downturn.
>
> B. It didn't really matter who was premier from 1995-2000. The
> province would have gone through an economic upturn.
>
> (Yes, there might have been small differences in how bad things got
> or how good they got, but there would have been a "bust" in the one
> case and a "boom" in the other.)
>
> That being the case, can you not see how meaningless it is to give
> Mike Harris credit for increasing employment and reducing the welfare
> roles? Can you see that the U.S. economy decided that for us?
>
John, it is undoubtedly very true that the Canadian economy depends in large
part on the US economy, and is driven by it. No Canadian politician, of
whatever stripe, at whatever level, can exert an influence on our own
economy except within a band of opportunity that exists around that US
influence.
Within that band though, there is room to do both good and harm. The
cumulative effects of narrow-band harm over time have widened the
productivity gap between Canada and the US resulting in the current low
value Canadian dollar which has far-reaching effects. If we are going to
look at the relative merits of each premier though his respective tenure, we
should really be looking at whether the net economic growth or shrinkage was
exacerbated by their policies over and above what one would expect to see
simply as a result of the conditions in the US. I believe that on a net
basis, Rae made things slightly worse than they needed to be, while Harris
managed to make them slightly better.
Richard Henderson
You ever hear of a non sequitur?
Well, you're showing the perfect example of one right now...
I asked you to read my posts and quote me on when I said what you implied I
said... you couldn't, so of course you resort to petty name calling.
"nkennedy" <nken...@seascape.ns.ca> wrote in message
news:3BCDF974...@seascape.ns.ca...
nkennedy
you in licking Mike Harris's arse, then cry and bawl when someone speaks
back to you in the tone that you introduced.
Look little boy, your mother might find you reading some four
letter words, I'd advise you go back to Alt.kidsareus and come back to
converse with adults when you are less transparent and far less a cry
baby.
Good night now, don't be afraid. The bad men , the evil men are not
coming to get you. Moron
Neil K
Ted
Your post was great! Harris was the man with the balls to do
what he said he would do and,,, he did it. He made the hard
choices.
He was no limp dicked, lying bastard, like Jean (GST)
Chretien.
I know one thing. If Mike Harris had been PM there would be
no GST. He would have got off his ass and attended the state
funeral of the late king H. Got off his ass and been in NY
within hours. Our service men would not be still flying around
in those death traps called Sea Kings. There would be a lot
less service widows. (just to make him look better by
canceling the helicopters.) All the federal government would
be still in ottawa and not spread around in hull and
Shawinigan. Our army would not be the laughing stock of the
world. The Airborne would not have been disbanded. (Would you
disband the RCMP because a member murdered someone?) We would
still have had some troops and not just a few ships to send to
a land war in the mountains.
He would not have made CANADA the laughingstock of the
world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ontario and the whole country will miss U.
His Boy Elroy wrote:
>
> First, let me thank with all my heart "Zsa Zsa" for sparking this thread of
>
mr.e
>
> Yup, when the people elected Harris, they essentially gave him a mandate to
> do the things he said he would. By and large, Mike Harris has. Those who
> voted for him have nothing to complain about.
>
> Of course not everybody voted for Harris, they disagreed with him then, they
> probably disagree with him now. They have a right to be upset with his
> actions (mostly cost-cutting related), but majority rules in a democracy.
>
electoral system produced "majority" based governments. However the
fact of the matter is that less than 19% of all adults of voting age in
the province of Ontario actually cast a ballot for the idiot Harris last
time around. He had absolutely no morally constituted mandate to
inflict his ideologically driven program on the province. Most people
with the slightest capacity for analysis recognize how destructive
Harris has been for the province and how long it will take us to
recover. How many years will it take us to pay the debt created by the
interest we are paying for money the province had to borrow in order to
send out the $200 "refund" cheques this idiot authorized?
Of course all of this is moot at this point. Like all self-serving
rats, Harris has jumped ship and will let it sink under the burden his
dim-witted "leadership" has created. After all there's the tasty prize
of leader of the Reform party looming on the not-so-distant horizon. Oh
yeah...you read it here, right now. This boneheads ego is too large for
Hogtown! The fun has just begun!
mr.e
much that will probably embarass him when he finally sobers up.
Uh....Ted....stop abusing yourself.
Stringfellowhaulkeye
and the pool bigger!
No, the number one reason I need gov't assistance is my Cerebral Palsy and
that people assoccates CP with being unintelligant before knowing of my
Dyslexia but that too isn't a indication of 'lack-of intelligance.'
Honest John
wrote:
>Harris has been a major calamity for this province. It will take
>decades to undo the harm that he and his people have done.
Mr. Harris was a great premier, he did after all undo much of the
terrible damage done by the NDP.
Honest John
(Geoffrey Gies) wrote:
> Seeing the head rat abandon
>the boat as it flounders upon meeting the tip of the iceberg should be
>heeded as warning.
Did you get this from your study of Nazi propaganda movies where they
pictured Jews as rats? You are dangerously close to use hate speech.
Mr. Harris was a great premier who helped rescue the province from NDP
missmanagement. We should be putting up a statue of Mr, Harris not
that awfull Trudeau.
His Boy Elroy
Don't even get me started on Jean Cretin (misspelling intended). I have
often been embarassed to be a Canadian but NEVER actually ASHAMED until
Canada's response to 9/11. If Preston Manning was PM you can bet this would
have never happened!!!!!
When I first got wind that Mr. Harris was resigning I was hoping beyond hope
that it was to head toward leadership of the Federal Conservatives. Then
we'd REALLY, by God, have a country!!!
He was the first politician that I've ever seen in my more than 40 years
that put the duty to carry out the mandate that the people gave him ahead of
his own career and at great personal cost. The pressures of office cost him
(temporarily I hope) his marriage and family. I cannot blame him for wanting
them back and so, sad as I am to see this great Canadian go (a "public
servant" in the most honorable sense of the word), I understand.
He's already done enough by re-"educating" all of us to the idea behind true
"democracy". I care not that, as someone else said, "less than 19%" of the
populace voted for him. I am constantly entertained at the "arguments" the
left puts forth, ESPECIALLY when they "back it up" with "statistics". I
don't have time (nor if I did, would I waste it) to prove this next point,
but, my guess is (giving the benefit of the doubt that this number is not
being pulled out of the orifice where the monkey stuffed the banana peel)
that the "19%" that voted for Mr. Harris (LOL) is the ratio with denominator
100 including every man, woman, and child in Ontario. Again, graciously
giving benefit of the doubt to the mentally disabled, let's assume he/she is
referring to those only of voting age. It is "CUPE reasoning" (gosh how I
wish that expression could be ensconced into our language) to, instead of
just taking a percentage of those who voted, to take the percentage (the
denominator) of those who were eligible but didn't or (even worse) those who
are breathing air.
Mr. Harris' "controversial" time in office was made so only by the
yellow/pinko media and those dependant on the teat of the great Ontario pig,
viz. : the Welfare abusers, the gold-brickers (should we ALL pay so little
Johnny can have his nose wiped (@$100 a pop) by a doctor when, back in "the
day" chicken soup would have sufficed? (and remember we all wait 2 hours
when we are GENUINELY sick because little Johnny has the "right" to get in
for free), the Unions (slugs in workers' clothing), the teachers (glorified
babysitters wanting to continue their "free lunch" without having to confirm
their continued competance to do the most important job in our society) and
other special interest groups.
He did what we elected him to do. (WHAT AN UNUSUAL CONCEPT!!!!!!!)
The only true pity (other than the left-wing finally wore him down) is that
he didn't go even further than he did with his ideas. Personally, I'd like
to see unions banned and everything (that can be) privatized but with
regulations to ensure quality of essential service.
The "Walkerton-gate" the "Ipperwash-gate" (there, I'll start the buzz-terms,
wait and see how long it takes some left wing knee-jerk moron to bury the
bait in their cheek) are NOTHING but the left-wing media's attempt to gain
popularity among the intellectually disadvantaged (see, LOOK AT ME!!! I can
be politically-correct!! I resisted the urge to use the term "great unwashed
and pathetically unreasoning").
God Bless you, Mr. Harris and may you have happiness from now until you die
in exchange for your great sacrifice and service to the people of Ontario.
"Ted" <tjo...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3BCE3549...@sympatico.ca...
Heinz W. Wiggeshoff
> Thanks, Ted.
...
>
> He was the first politician that I've ever seen in my more than 40 years
> that put the duty to carry out the mandate that the people gave him ahead of
> his own career and at great personal cost.
I don't recall that Mikey and the Thugs got a mandate to destroy the
Ontario health system. I'm thinking of Ottawa, Sudbury and Hamilton
in particular.
Richard Henderson
"nkennedy" <nken...@seascape.ns.ca> wrote in message
news:3BCE328D...@seascape.ns.ca...
Richard Henderson
The ability to vote is pretty accessable to all Canadians
Until we in Canada (like some Scandinavian countries) legislate mandatory
voting for all adult citizens, what are our other choices?
"mr.e" <an...@home.com> wrote in message news:3BCE38D4...@home.com...
E. Barry Bruyea
There was nowhere for the PC's to go but up. Virtually no provincial
government in history had inherited condtions such as were left to the
PC's by Rae's blundering amateurs. What ever mistakes were made were
at least errors of commission done with a wide brush. The previous
government had one agenda; that of creating a province that was
totally union friendly and whatever the downside for business and
working people was, certainly was not a priority for the NDP. Harris'
resignation has left room for the young turks in the PC party to take
over and carry on his work in their own way. Even with the problems
of the day, Ontario is a far more positive place to reside that in was
six years ago.
>
>
M.I. Wakefield
"mr.e" <an...@home.com> wrote in message news:3BCE38D4...@home.com...
Snip!
> I could accept the truth of your final statement if in fact our
> electoral system produced "majority" based governments. However the
> fact of the matter is that less than 19% of all adults of voting age in
> the province of Ontario actually cast a ballot for the idiot Harris last
> time around.
So what? Have you ever heard the statement "silence equals consent"? Those
who didn't vote were consenting to having Harris govern them. How many
people actually voted against Harris? You can be damned sure it wasn't 81%.
> He had absolutely no morally constituted mandate to
> inflict his ideologically driven program on the province.
Bullshit. See above.
Harris told us up front most of what he planned to do, and then he had the
gall to actually go out and do most of it.
> Most people
> with the slightest capacity for analysis recognize how destructive
> Harris has been for the province and how long it will take us to
> recover. How many years will it take us to pay the debt created by the
> interest we are paying for money the province had to borrow in order to
> send out the $200 "refund" cheques this idiot authorized?
Umm, zero years, because the province ran a surplus that year. How long to
pay the $10 billion *a year* deficits run up by Buffalo Bob and his gang of
goat herders, otherwise known as Premier Rae and the NDP caucus?
Geoffrey Gies
Richard Henderson <box...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Could you write with more cliche?
Only if you insist.
>I haven't got my fill yet!
>
A trail of sacred cows to the fascist opportunist loon bin lies
littering the road of those with social conscience.
Day has had his. Say byebye Doris.
Connie Black had enough of watching his lampoon of national
journalism hemmorrhaging red ink. And sold his trumpet to the nutbars
to the Izmer clan before retreating to his beloved Britain.
The crap party couldn't unite a picture puzzle. And have
apparently sucked the federal tories (still labouring under the Mulroney
legacy) into the apparently festive and trendy habit of renaming the
organisation on a regular basis. Nonetheless, they still aim to make a
tempting commission selling the north of 49 to You Ess interests.
Now we have our man Mikey electing to select the door marked "fire
exit" in his hasty retreat from the scene of the crime. Ducking
subpeonas is old hat for him (George's survivors can testify to that).
Could it be more bad news from Walkerton? Maybe something about
deregulation allowing new and wonderful infected fertilisers into our fair
clime which might actually carry the virulent in question in Walkerton?
Yep. The times, they are a changing.
Now back to your kennel. Bill wants another billion and
somebody has to install winders on the blinders so your sheeple can't
see the operative side of OS isn't fulfilled under their software
licence.
Taa taa.
--
Mr. Giuliani urged for calm and called for a complete evacuation
of lower Manhattan. -Globe and Mail, Tuesday Sept. 11, 2001
Richard Henderson
That was an impressive bit of oratory writ!
Bravo!
"Geoffrey Gies" <geof...@iguana.reptiles.org> wrote in message
news:9qmmpk$svi$1...@news.tht.net...
loulou
> Taa taa.
===============================
See you in court!!!
Loulou
******
Humble Wisdom
"Micheal Wilson" <Michea...@ooyah.com> wrote in message
news:N%8z7.3098
> "Humble Wisdom" <B9...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > What's "moderate" mean to you? Someone who'll take us back
> > into deficit territory and raise taxes? I think you're definition
> > of "moderate" means "Liberal".
> Moderate means someone who will not alienate teachers, so that
students no
> longer get to play football and other extra-curricular sports?
In other words, someone who will admit, like the previous
administrations, that the teachers are in charge and not the
parents or government? No, I don't think so. I think the
teaching establishment still needs to be shaken up. I think
the education system still needs reform (which teachers
will ferociously oppose). If teachers don't like it let them
try to find another job.
> Moderate means someone like Bill Davis, a conservative for whom
social
> assistance was not a filthy word. The truth is that even Mike
Harris is not
> really that bad of a person. But he is weak, and he has allowed the
extreme
> elements of the party to have too much influence.
The probem with social assistance is human nature. If you make it
comfortable enough then far too many lazy people will choose to
be on social assistance rather than work minimum wage jobs. That
not only hurts the economy but leads to burgeoning welfare roles
and higher taxes.