Fused wheel

[patrick]

So I was trying to replace my struts and one of my rear wheels is fused on I've tried every thing I can think of including large hammer, the other wheel, and a 4"x4"x8' nothing has worked any ideas? I'm not real comfortable with the idea of driving it around with loose lug nuts till it pops off.

[Kevin Fusselman]

Don't drive on loose nuts; You'll lose the wheel, wreck, and probably bend the hell out of the hub and whatnot.

This stuff is amazing; It actually lives up to everything people that think WD40 is for removing rust.

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/pb-blaster-11-oz-penetrating-catalyst-lubricant-16pb-thd.html#.UIwifMXA_II

Also, depending on the shape of your hub, and the style of your wheel, you might be able to use a gear puller:

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-piece-three-jaw-puller-set-8832.html

Put the hooks in behind the hole at the middle of the wheel, and push on the hub/axle with the bolt...

[patrick]

I'm hesitant to use a lubricant on the out side of a brake..

[Kevin Fusselman]

Obviously, it's not the disk part that you need to spray (Rear disks, I assume?), but rather the middle part. It might be more accessible from the back side of the wheel... The Blaster comes with a long straw for just this purpose.

If it's drum rear, spray away. The outside doesn't contact anything anyhow...

[patrick]

Its rear drum but the the out side of them looks so rusted im wondering if they are going to crumble trying this. If its not one thing its another...

[patrick]

With my current cash flow you might actually get me to go to HF kevin... 

[peter storonskij]

did you try loosen the zerk and let some brake fluid out so you can compress the slave cylinder that way the brake pads push in and it frees the brake drum. and if its wheel that stuck on the brake drum you take a sledge hammer and hit it once on each side on the tire until it pops loose that's what i had to do on mine.

---

From: patrick <patrick...@gmail.com>
To: omaha-ma...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 1:04 PM
Subject: [OMG] Fused wheel

[David Knaack]

Are we talking about removing the tire and rim, or the drum?

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 1:04 PM, patrick <patrick...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Stephen Beck]

Hammer on the inside of the actual wheel. (Not the tire) but be careful about bending the wheel. Some wheels (very few, but check anyway) have jacking bolt holes between the lug holes. Sometimes a large pry bar between the drum and the wheel will work it loose. PB blaster, liquid wrench, kroil, etc are great thing to try for some help. You can spray some brakleen or equivalent on the brake parts to clean the oil off after you get it apart...

[patrick]

Tire and rim from the drum.

[David Knaack]

Sometimes it helps to heat the rim with a torch.

[patrick]

I like that idea fire solves everything. Off to buy a torch.

[David Knaack]

I had exactly this problem this afternoon. I solved it with PB and a 3lb mallet. Squirt the PB into the lug holes and rotate the tire to get it all distributed, then go have lunch. Come back with a mallet and a pad, smack the outer edge of the rim with the mallet, cushioning the blow with the pad to prevent damage to the rim. Half a dozen good smacks and it pops off.

[patrick]

Unfortunately I wont be able to begin/finish this till my next check a couple weeks from now. Bought too many tools and don't have any left over for the alignment when I get done.

[Stephen Beck]

If you are replacing all 4 struts I wouldn't worry too much about the alignment being off unless you replaced only one strut at some point and had it realigned after that...

[Marc M]

My friend is a mechanic for the city. And they just put 2 lugnuts on a
5 mug rim hand tight. And then just drive forwards and back until it
pops. 1 lug if only 4 lug rim.

One case for myself I had to drive around the block twice before it popped.

[patrick]

This is my only vehicle and so i dont think i will try that particular method.

[Marc M]

it was a idea. I have to do everytime i need to get a rim off of van
which is our only vehicle.
You tried big hammer on inside of rim under the car?

[patrick]

Kevins tire puller worked great. Now if I could only get the dang bolts off the strut. What would you recommend as far as impact/numatic or electric wrenches. Im leaning toward A battery powered one but I think air ones are more powerful. A breaker bar might work but not sure if i can get it in that area.

[Ben Hutcheson]

I don't have any experience with non-air-powered impact wrenches, but that's the type of tool I would buy in corded electric.  You won't be moving it around enough to justify the cost and performance reduction of a battery, and unless you already own a compressor, air would be a big expense.

[Kevin Fusselman]

Seconded. There are several 110v impact guns that are probably at least as good as a low-end air setup...

[Jason Uher]

For as often as your average hobbyist is going to use an impact
wrench, the 'manual' models are awesome. It's the same mechanism,
except you hit it with a hammer yourself instead of letting the
air/electricity doing the work. They take up significantly less room
and require 0 maintenance.

[Tyler Swain]

You can pick up a nice Kobalt corded electric impact wrench for about $35-$45.  I’ve always been happy with mine.

[patrick]

I was thinking battery because I'm working in an apartment parking lot about 75ft from my apartment. Jason got an example link?

On Saturday, October 27, 2012 1:04:37 PM UTC-5, patrick wrote:

[James Harr]

http://www.powerhawk.com/products_swench.html

I'm guessing these still need impact sockets. I know air/electric impact wrenches need impact sockets or you'll crack the socket after 3 or 4 uses.

--
^[:wq^M

[Kevin Fusselman]

I use a regular Kobalt brand 6-point socket for impact pretty regularly... I'm sure it's not ideal, but it hasn't failed yet, and has a lifetime warranty for when it does...

That said, I also own an impact socket set (now) and they're clearly much more strongly built.

[patrick]

Im confused as to how this works

[Kevin Fusselman]

It's magic. Really, Really good magic. :)

[James Harr]

http://science.discovery.com/tv-shows/deconstructed/videos/deconstructed-impact-wrench.htm

Skip to 1:30. Unless you like the comically EXTREEME narration.

--
^[:wq^M

[Jason Uher]

It looks like the one James linked uses springs, which sounds like it
might work OK. The one I have is more like a regular socket wrench
but instead of a ratchet it has a spiral groove that impacts and spins
when you hit the back end with a hammer. It's very old but I assume
someone still makes them?

Jason

[Kevin Fusselman]

I bought one a few years ago, at Menards, I think...

[Stephen Beck]

Take a regular box end wrench (6 point instead of 12 point if you are concerned about rounding the bolt) and put it on the bolt. Next hit the other end with a 4 lb mini sledge. Very cheap and very effective. If that fails put a pipe over the end of the wrench. Both methods supply more torque than even a good air impact, but the impact tool can provide several impacts per second. The impacts add up with time (not to mention help rust penetrant oil work into the cracks.) Additionally the quick smaller blows from an impact gun are less likely to break a bolt. I've found that I've been able to get rusty bolts out with an impact that the head would have broken off of with a breaker bar. (Think exhaust flange bolts.)

On Nov 4, 2012 9:11 AM, "patrick" <patrick...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Kevin Fusselman]

Agreed. The other advantage of air (or electric) impact is that it tends not to rotate the work as much, during loosening.  I'm thinking specifically strut top-nuts, where the strut piston tends to twist.  Otherwise, there's always vise-grips...

[patrick]

I was thinking more of how the manual ones work but good to know.

[patrick]

What about something like this. I'm not sure it will have enough power I can easily get the tire lugs off its the struts i have issue with.

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/kawasaki-1-2-in-12-volt-impact-wrench-kit-841337.html#.UJhfT6WaAnU

[Kevin Fusselman]

That's not significantly less powerful than my air one...

[Stephen Beck]

I use a craftsman professional 1/2 inch drive that puts out ~710 ft-lb in both directions. It doesn't always get stuff apart. I doubt that 280 ft-lb thing will take care of your issue if you can't get it apart (or break it) with a large ratchet...

On Nov 5, 2012 6:53 PM, "patrick" <patrick...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Ben Hutcheson]

For what it's worth, I think you're probably better off with the impact wrench than the breaker bar.  It might not have enough torque to do the job, but it also won't twist the studs off, which is entirely within the realm of possibility for a huge breaker bar.  I think if you're not getting it with the impact wrench, it's time for more penetrating oil, not more torque.  At least to begin with.

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 5:33 PM, patrick <patrick...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hmm, now you tell me. I just bought it. But I got it from amazon, they have free return shipping I can at least try it. I might just get a giant 40" breaker bar.

[David Knaack]

Replacing studs is usually cheap and easy. They have a splined shaft that presses in. Just remove the part that they are attached to so you can get to the back (some times this isn't even necessary) and drive them out with a piece of rod and a hammer. Pop the new ones in and use a regular nut (not a lug nut) and some washers to seat it.

Also, never start a nut with an impact wrench.

On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:00 AM, patrick <patrick...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yeah i ripped off two studs on my tires once when i cross threaded them. Lots of effort only to take it in to get the studs replaces.

[Ben Hutcheson]

That would probably make it 3/8". . .

On Nov 10, 2012 12:32 PM, "patrick" <patrick...@gmail.com> wrote:

The impact wrench I bought that ran from a cars 12v port did in fact work. That is once i realized the bolts on this strut don't have splines on them and I had to hold the back side with a reg wrench. Now I have to figure out how to get the brake line detached it seems to be a 9.5mm as my 9mm doesn't fit and my 10mm slips. 

[patrick]

isnt every thing on toyota metric?

[Ben Hutcheson]

Evidently not.

[Rick Rubio]

I recall that 3/8" & 10mm are pretty darn close.

Sent from my iPhone

[patrick]

3/8"= .375" = 9.525mm, 10mm=.393" close doesn't turn the nut.

[Rick Rubio]

It's been 30 years since I've actually worked on a car, I just remember that there were a few sizes that could be substited.  I'm not making any suggestions since I'm not the best qualified.

Sent from my iPhone

[Stephen Beck]

Yeah, but if the part has been rebuilt by an american shop, say under a previous owner, then anything goes. Also rust takes it's toll as well, makes things change size slightly...

On Nov 10, 2012 1:26 PM, "patrick" <patrick...@gmail.com> wrote:

[David Knaack]

Drums or discs? With discs you can usually get away without disconnecting the brake lines, which will save you a lot of time trying to get your brakes working properly again.

[James Harr]

Speaking from experience, if you happen to get any oil on the brake pads, clean them *immediately*. On my dirt bike I got fork fluid on them and when I replaced the brakes I had a hard time not going over the handle bars because my brain was so use to the crappy pads. The brakes will deteriorate gradually, but quickly and will basically be shot after an hour or so.

--
^[:wq^M

[patrick]

Drum brakes, I have to disconnect them as the line goes through a bracket with a hole in it that is connected to the strut. There is no way to take the strut out with out disconnecting the brake lines.

[Kevin Fusselman]

That's unfortunate... It's always so interesting to me how different cars vary so much in terms of engineering...

In some cases, half of the car has to come apart to change light bulb, and in other cars you can replace the engine with nothing but a #2 Phillips...

Best of luck!

[Ryan Stille]

FWIW you can sometimes cut the bracket on the old and new strut so the brake line doesn't need to be disconnected.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/pgillett/SubaruLegacySS/Remember%20to%20Cut%20Slot%20in%20Strut%20for%20Brake%20Line.JPG

I just bend the bracket back in place on the new strut.

-Ryan

[patrick]

I've heard of people doing this. Not sure I want to use a saw next to a rubber break line.

[patrick]

So... one month and one week later I'm DONE! Based on the labor quote I got from firestone I came in $200 some under budget and now have most of the tools needed to do any future work one my car. Parts $270.00. Tools acquired for future use 110.93. Total progressive work time minus trial and error about 8 hours.

[patrick]

With the gas milage I estimate I will get with new struts the cost will pay for itself by one year of driving to work. Milage before completion 38mpg highway. Need a couple tanks to get the after milage I'm hoping above 40mpg highway (which is all I drive).

[patrick]

Millage attained by getting up early and driving the speed limit 70mph on cruise control with 36psi each tire, and coasting as much as possible. Next up covering the rear wheel wells, taping off the wholes on the hub caps, removing radio antennae. For better aerodynamics.

[tavshed]

Don't forget the gas money you saved the last one month and one week.

- Mike

[patrick]

Its my only car I've been driving it this whole time.