Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49824 ] From ODSP to Workfare

[Bill Higgs]

And ODSP workers and our gvernment would certainly never lie now, would they?????

LOL

 

Bill

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Olli

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Cc: Olli ; Bill Higgs ; chrys...@primus.ca ; chrys...@primus.ca

Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 4:55 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49824 ] From ODSP to Workfare

no my worker explained it to me. when they take away hav your wages then when you are making twice what odsp gives you you get to keep everything after that.

if you keep everything in the first place then once your making twice odsp they stop paying you and you are cut 12000 per year all at once.

the way they do it now is more fair for everyone she said.

[Wade Suplat]

Well it seems to me after the math... im going to make around $500 say.. they keep $250 and I keep $250..so far ive made $250.. but ODSP has taken $250.. so far i am not ahead.. just worked for that 250..so let me use a bigger number... $2000...lets say I make this amount... well... ODSP takes $1000 of it.. so I still am left with $1000 as a ODSP payment..I am no father ahead except for the extra $100 a month for employment costs..its an illusion to make it seem like you are getting more.. but you do get to work for your own money.. that gives a good feeling no?

if you make 24k a year through this.. they take 50%.. that means your take home is 12k...this method has never made any sense to me..

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Olli <sus...@rocketmail.com> wrote:

dont laugh at me.

who do you think you are.

she shouwd me the math and it makes sense.
whith the 50% cut you ease into 24,000 a year as your income increases to twice the ODSP rate and your free after that.

if they didn take anything off youd be taking in 36,000 (your 24,000 plus 12,000 odsp) and then if you make any more youd drop back down to 24,000 (odsp stops paying). bang you loose 1,000 a month right away.

no one woud work for more then so you wouldnt loose the 12,000 free money.

it makes sense to me. idon't want to just take from people. this sems fair.

what' s wrong with if?

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[Susan Johnson]

i don see why you should keep all of that money from odsp if your working to.

odsp is ther to help you out. if your earning then your just taking money away from the other people that don.

in my church that is called staeling and is agains Christ. and im not a full citizen if im disable and cant work and cant contribut to society. i live off the charity from others. the ones that do contribut.

---

From: ROBERT ALDRED <chrys...@primus.ca>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com; Olli <sus...@rocketmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 2:31:25 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49838 ] From ODSP to Workfare

Hello Susan

Or perhaps, like full citizens do, you would keep all the money that you work for.   ODSP should be a right not a means tested benefit.    That is my point.  

Thankyou

Robert



On Thu 18/04/13 1:41 PM , Olli sus...@rocketmail.com sent:

[abrowne]

I call this over taxation of the poor.  At the end of the day, nobody should be paying more

than anybody else percentage wise regarding monies earned/received.  People don't work 

because they are clawed back at least double the rate that millionaires are.  All these business

people fight the government because high taxes/clawbacks reduce incentive to invest -- how

does high taxation/clawbacks to somebody's earnings on ODSP become an incentive to work?

You contribute to taxes as well, through your rent, through your purchases and if you do work,

through your earnings, so you contribute as well.

Angela

---

From: Susan Johnson <sus...@rocketmail.com>
To: "chrys...@primus.ca" <chrys...@primus.ca>; "odspfi...@googlegroups.com" <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:07:55 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49844 ] From ODSP to Workfare

i don see why you should keep all of that money from odsp if your working to.

odsp is ther to help you out. if your earning then your just taking money away from the other people that don.

in my church that is called staeling and is agains Christ. and im not a full citizen if im disable and cant work and cant contribut to society. i live off the charity from others. the ones that do contribute

[ROBERT ALDRED]

I see it a bit differently.  I have rights as a citizen.   I have rights that are Guaranteed to me in the Universal Delcaration of Human Rights.   I have a right to receive a full wage for the work that I do.   I have a right to a disability pension.   I have a right to be a disabled person and not harrassed by governments like in Ontario into doing work I could not possibly do.  I have a right not to be subjected to terror.   This new phoney Social Services review is terrorizing many disabled people.   I have a right to proper food.   I have a right to proper shelter.   I have a right to not be subjected to religious profit doctrines.

The Catholic church, about twenty years ago, introduced in their churches and schools the doctrine of working for free.   Labour has value.   Children are not being taught that.   They are being taught to not value labour.

If you cant pay your rent nobody is going to voleenteer to house you.   If you dont have good food you are not going to be offered that as a right in a system of volenteering.    We made the laws that are being broken as a result of learning from history and making legislation to meet the needs of the people.    They are not being met.

The newest crime is to take away the necessary category of disabled to ensure that at least we are known as a group with rights in relation to our disabilities.   This is being taken away.   To separate us from our rights.   In the same way working for nothing takes our right to be paid.   This will benefit rich people.   It will disempowered millions of citizens. 

When we smarten up and fight back we will have citizenship in practice and not in theory.

Robert  



On Fri 19/04/13 9:07 AM , Susan Johnson sus...@rocketmail.com sent:

i don see why you should keep all of that money from odsp if your working to.

odsp is ther to help you out. if your earning then your just taking money away from the other people that don.

in my church that is called staeling and is agains Christ. and im not a full citizen if im disable and cant work and cant contribut to society. i live off the charity from others. the ones that do contribut.

---

From: ROBERT ALDRED
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com; Olli

[abrowne]

Susan,

 

So are you saying that people who are on ODSP should be forced to live on the low

income they are given and not be allowed to work at all?  Good luck finding that

accommodations for $475 a month, inclusive of all utilities ... ANYWHERE.

Don't look for a substantial raise soon, as it ain't happening.

 

Many people who are on ODSP work because they need to eat and live somewhere

in the same month.  That is called survival.  I don't know honestly how an ODSP

recipient who is unable to work at all or get income from elsewhere makes it.

 

Further, there is no law that says you cannot work while you are on ODSP.  In fact,

there are many programs and services that actively assist people to try to work

while on ODSP.  I am part of a panel right now that is looking into improving

these employment-related supports to increase the number of people working

while on ODSP.

 

But that being said, if somebody works, their earnings should not be clawed back

any more than anybody else that is earning the same money.  You see this is

equality before and under the law for people with disabilities, as it costs a lot more

to live with a disability than it does without one.

 

It can be developed into a Guaranteed Annual Income scheme, where say, if you

get $12,000 a year for ODSP, and you earn $12,000 a year in a job, you get taxed

on a total of $24,000 a year with all the normal deductions, such as personal exemption,

disability exemption, etc. that anybody else can claim, as though you actually earned

$24,000 a year.  If you are able to earn higher and higher amounts, more of the amount

of money you get paid in ODSP gets taxed because you are in a higher income bracket.

This is the only way that people on ODSP who work will not be clawed back/taxed

more than millionaires do, as a proportion of their incomes.

 

To me there is NO INCENTIVE to work at all at the current clawback rate and the

proposed $200 exemption is not even a drop in the bucket, if you are considering

the actual costs of working, e.g. transport, clothing, lunches, etc. After the $200, the

Commission has proposed a 57% clawback rate, which is much higher than millionaires

or ANYBODY ELSE pays.

 

This is and always will be discriminatory and as far as I am concerned, against the law,

and if they want to see more people with disabilities working, this proposal of mine is

likely the only one or anything similar to it that will succeed.

 

Angela

From: Olli <sus...@rocketmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 2:32:57 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49851 ] From ODSP to Workfare

 i think wer on the same side. if you can work and your pulling in an income then you shouldn be on disability.

i know people who work and collect disability too. i think thats also wrong.

[corrinna]

Susan, I have concerns with these statements you have made :

 

 

one will go to jail because you dont want to work and arent happy with your food or where you live

 

society also has a right to expect us help out to

 

I don't want to just take from people

 

i like working. im not lazy.

 

 

Perhaps I am not understanding your method of communication, but these statements seem to imply that you think

people who require disability are lazy, takers, and just don’t want to work. I hope you will clarify these words, because

personally, I found them offensive, as someone who lives with disabilities and health problems I didn’t ask for, and have

no choice but to live with.

 

 

From: Olli

 

 

its not a law. no one will go to jail because you dont want to work and arent happy with your food or where you live.

society  also has a right to expect us help out to.

[abrowne]

Goldie,

That was just an example.

I am being taxed back at a total rate of 120% once all CRA calculations are in.

Even those in the best place scenario will be taxed back 57% of their earnings

after the first $200 under the SAR report, PLUS don't forget if they earn enough,

they will pay taxes on the total earned not just what ODSP lets them keep.  I don't

believe this is even legal, let alone even rational.

 

I believe that ODSP should be set up like a pension program and be based on a

basic cost of living (one should be able to live decently on it and not worry about

starving or finding housing in somebody's backyard shed for $475 a month).  This

means the benefit unit is individual and if the person has dependent children, there

should be additional monies for dependent children (using the same definition as

currently used for CPP disability benefits).  This should eventually move to a

Guaranteed Annual Income in terms of how it is treated in taxation.

 

So if your entitlements are $21,168 per year (say this is your 'pension amount' for

you and your dependents), and you work and get $10,000 a year (again, an example,

not stating anybody's individual business here) ... your total income would be

$31,168 per year and that would be what your taxation would be ... no clawbacks

but you would be taxed as though you were earning the full $31,168 per year, even

if you only earned $10,000.  That's the only way in my opinion it would be fair ...

yes, you would be paying more taxes than you are now, but you would not be clawed

back for every dollar you make as well under ODSP.

Angela

From: Goldielover <fio...@hotmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Cc: abrowne <browne...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 3:39:52 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49851 ] From ODSP to Workfare

Angela, how does your plan of $12,000.00 a year work for those with dependents?  Currently, my ODSP, if I am not working, is $21,168.00 a year.  I get $1704.00 a month (one unemployed adult dependent just finishing high school and off to college in the fall) plus $60.00 a month for medical transportation. 

[Bill Higgs]

Am I reading you correctly??? , those who are disabled and have to live off the "charity" of the government (ie taxpayers) are somehow less of a person or citizen?????

does that mean seniors who live off a pension  are somehow "less" than those who are working?????

 

Bill

----- Original Message -----

From: Susan Johnson

To: chrys...@primus.ca ; odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:07 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49844 ] From ODSP to Workfare

[ROBERT ALDRED]

Currently we have been forced into poverty on incomes that cant possibly meet our needs.   This is as a result of almost twenty years of government policy.  

If I am disabled I should get a pension of around $1650.00 a month cash to meet the needs outlined in the Human Right Declaration plus transportation and other things.   You and I dont get that.   Starting from the already horrible level we are now being told that all disabled people have to make out a work program for themselves.   That is in opposition to the doctor patient relationship in that we have been declared to be disable in such a way that we cannot work.   Volenteer for a small amount of compensation yes but thats it.   Has a sizable part of the communtiy lost its sense.   This forcing people to work when disabled is a break with human rights guarantees.

This is how it works.   The governments slowly lower you incomes until your security and life is at risk.   Then they slowly take away your disabled status.  People are desperate.    They try to make you work.   The success of the program will be based on how many people are off ODSP and how much more money will be given therefore to the rich on Welfare.   Banking Welfare.   Welfare for Chinese investors.   Welfare for Sports.    Then when you are sufficiently slandered by these governments with you wont work propaganda your incomes are slowly reduced in a climate of no rights because the ODSP benefits are delivered by you local government.
In the end you work or starve.   That is what is going on in my opinion.   Its happening in all sorts of jurisdictions at different paces. The United States and the British are leading as usual in these attacks.    Why would we be exempt.

We currently have rights.  A bird in the hand is better than a bunch in the bush.  

I say that we should have a Pension that is like Canada Pension that is not negotiable or changeable.   If they want us to work for money we keep it and our pension.   That way the terror of being forced to work to eat is removed.  We could contribute as we can to society but without being terrorized.    We will not be working anyway because of they way the economy is progressing.   We may be starving if they get their way.

On Fri 19/04/13 2:43 PM , Olli sus...@rocketmail.com sent:

 its not a law. no one will go to jail because you dont want to work and arent happy with your food or where you live.

society  also has a right to expect us help out to.

On Friday, April 19, 2013 11:58:08 AM UTC-4, Glenn wrote:

I see it a bit differently.  I have rights as a citizen.   I have rights that are Guaranteed to me in the Universal Delcaration of Human Rights.   I have a right to receive a full wage for the work that I do.   I have a right to a disability pension.   I have a right to be a disabled person and not harrassed by governments like in Ontario into doing work I could not possibly do.  I have a right not to be subjected to terror.   This new phoney Social Services review is terrorizing many disabled people.   I have a right to proper food.   I have a right to proper shelter.   I have a right to not be subjected to religious profit doctrines.

The Catholic church, about twenty years ago, introduced in their churches and schools the doctrine of working for free.   Labour has value.   Children are not being taught that.   They are being taught to not value labour.

If you cant pay your rent nobody is going to voleenteer to house you.   If you dont have good food you are not going to be offered that as a right in a system of volenteering.    We made the laws that are being broken as a result of learning from history and making legislation to meet the needs of the people.    They are not being met.

The newest crime is to take away the necessary category of disabled to ensure that at least we are known as a group with rights in relation to our disabilities.   This is being taken away.   To separate us from our rights.   In the same way working for nothing takes our right to be paid.   This will benefit rich people.   It will disempowered millions of citizens. 

When we smarten up and fight back we will have citizenship in practice and not in theory.

Robert  



On Fri 19/04/13 9:07 AM , Susan Johnson sus...@rocketmail.com sent:

i don see why you should keep all of that money from odsp if your working to.

odsp is ther to help you out. if your earning then your just taking money away from the other people that don.

in my church that is called staeling and is agains Christ. and im not a full citizen if im disable and cant work and cant contribut to society. i live off the charity from others. the ones that do contribut.

---

From: ROBERT ALDRED
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com; Olli
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 2:31:25 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49838 ] From ODSP to Workfare

Hello Susan

Or perhaps, like full citizens do, you would keep all the money that you work for.   ODSP should be a right not a means tested benefit.    That is my point.  

Thankyou

Robert



On Thu 18/04/13 1:41 PM , Olli sus...@rocketmail.com sent:

dont laugh at me.

who do you think you are.

she shouwd me the math and it makes sense.
whith the 50% cut you ease into 24,000 a year as your income increases to twice the ODSP rate and your free after that.

if they didn take anything off youd be taking in 36,000 (your 24,000 plus 12,000 odsp) and then if you make any more youd drop back down to 24,000 (odsp stops paying). bang you loose 1,000 a month right away.

no one woud work for more then so you wouldnt loose the 12,000 free money.

it makes sense to me. idon't want to just take from people. this sems fair.

what' s wrong with if?

On Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:46:48 AM UTC-4, tooguyca wrote:

And ODSP workers and our gvernment would certainly never lie now, would they?????

LOL

 

Bill

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Olli

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Cc: Olli ; Bill Higgs ; chrys...@primus.ca ; chrys...@primus.ca

Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 4:55 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49824 ] From ODSP to Workfare

no my worker explained it to me. when they take away hav your wages then when you are making twice what odsp gives you you get to keep everything after that.

if you keep everything in the first place then once your making twice odsp they stop paying you and you are cut 12000 per year all at once.

the way they do it now is more fair for everyone she said.

[abrowne]

No, they do NOT continue giving you the $12,000 on your ODSP.  You don't get

this, do you?  Your income essentially remains the same in the best of worlds,

because most of your "disposable" income is spent getting to work, dressing

for work and providing for lunches to work and other incidentals.  You are also

taxed on the total amount you earn, not just what ODSP "lets" you keep, and then

clawed back another 57%, leaving you basically at best, in the same position

before you started working.  So you might as well stay home and do nothing.

 

As for self-employment, you are not allowed to hire anybody, not allowed many

CRA deductions (yes, you have to swallow many NECESSARY business

expenses), are not allowed to keep above a certain amount of business asset

(so the business cannot be sold after you're done with it ... other than the

value of a used chair, a used computer, a used filing cabinet, etc. as opposed

to a turnkey operation with staff and clientele already in place, which would

actually help some people retire -- unlike the current system which does not

allow one to retire).  When the deductions are all added up, CRA deductions,

work expenses that can't be deducted by ODSP but may be by CRA, and

ODSP's 57% hit, you are actually further BEHIND.  I have a chartered

accountant that actually did my numbers and did a report that indicated that

for every dollar I earn, my husband loses $1.20.

 

How is that getting ahead?  Where am I ahead in this scenario?  This is why

these policies have to be put before a judge.

Angela

From: Olli <sus...@rocketmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 5:50:49 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49864 ] From ODSP to Workfare

sur your getting 50% taking off your incone but your keeping the 12,000 odsp is still giving. and they give you lots of benefits besides like meds and eye exams and glasses and other stuff they've halped me with.

if you work your still ahead. i dont just like sitting aroudn like other people do. some people cant manage their mony or make good choices with things but has nothing do do with anyone else.

i just dont understand why people dont want to work if it will get them ahead.

[abrowne]

Want to know why people work under the table?  While I don't condone people

doing that, they do this because they are not allowed to keep the vast majority of

what they make.  Those working in minimum wage jobs after all taxes and so

forth are taken into account, are working for less than $5/hour.  That's why they

work under the table.  There would less working under the table under the

formula I provided to this board, where you work and keep your pension and

pay taxes on the total amount of income received/earned combined.  That way,

you are not earning $20,000 a year and having $18,000 clawed back (through

non-deductible work expenses, CRA deductions, ODSP 57% clawbacks ...),

while others earning $20,000 a year are only clawed back $4,000 in taxes, etc.

Angela

From: Olli <sus...@rocketmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 5:56:22 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49862 ] From ODSP to Workfare

its just in the place where i live there are lots to on disability who work under the table. same with ow. i just think that is wrong and stealing.

im glad its there for the people who really deserve it.

[Bloggy.Deb]

Angela, well said!

As you well know I am a huge proponent for helping/supporting persons with disabilities getting competitive employment.

And I for one would never turn someone in, it’s too damned difficult for able bodied people to make a decent living for so very reasons, some of which you have broached in your post but too many to be addressed in their entirety.

 

But long story short, as often you and  I find ourselves on opposite ends of a debate- today we are side by side on this subject.

Deb

--

[Dave Siegel]

 

I’ve not posted for awhile !! First off not all rich people are crooks (yes quite a few are) second without “rich people”(actually it is a combo of all taxpayers & Corporations that enable these programs to exist!!!) there would be no ODSP,etc. Now we live in very polarized and envious times (IMO because there is no security for anyone anymore period so people are scared and are panicking)! For sure there is a growing component of just plain mean spirited folks out there. I think the shelter allowance in particular is WAY below what it should be and we should be allowed to keep say the first $400 that we earn not $200. If it is proven you cannot work period then you should get a supplement to help you out, to put it simply our cheques need to be increased to say $1,500(Higher for the GTA area due to transit, rents), The “rules” need a MAJOR overhaul so we can be in a healthy loving relationship if WE choose to be in one!!! If we keep educating and pushing without over emotional attitudes we might have a chance to make those there that want to listen change their minds (I’ve done this with a few people already). Finger pointing/hysterics WILL not get the result we want that is for sure. I think when a “troll” appears on this forum they should ignored and if they keep posting they should be deleted especially if engaging in personal attacks of any kind(Just my opinion) Take care folks and have a great weekend

 

 

[abrowne]

I don't even get to keep fifty percent.  My account showed me I am clawed back

120% on the dollar.  Go see an accountant and they will tell you how the poorest

among us are taxed the highest as proportion to income.  I pay 120% clawback,

those in subsidized housing pay 85% if they work and are on ODSP.  The best 

option is not to work at all, if only considering the financial implications.

A

---

From: Olli <sus...@rocketmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Cc: abrowne <browne...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:40:32 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49864 ] From ODSP to Workfare

i dont understand. they take 50% not 57%.

when did that change? does that change my claculations i showd before?

[Bill Higgs]

what part of "at the moment"  you are getting 12,000 per year, dont you understand??????  you are guaranteed nothing, the social asssistance review is suggesting that you get cut back???

and anything you do happen to make by working will be hacked off your ODSP cheque at the rate of at least 50%

 

Bill

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Olli

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:37 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49869 ] From ODSP to Workfare

why are you so mad? all im saying is if you working and contributing to the taxpayers to thats good.

i get a garanteed 12000 a year from the govnment and anything i work for on top of that is a bonus. whats wrong with that?

i dont want to just get free mony from people and not put back. Christ taught us to love our brothers and i'll help those who need help to.

its being a Christion.

[Bloggy.Deb]

But Angela yours is a particularly unique position, I would hazard a guess that unfortunately, you are one of the few that have fallen between the legislative cracks, so in all honest as bad and dire things are for you, I hate to say it, you are in (and in a nice way too) in a class of your own.  Nobody can or SHOULD compare their situation to yours, nor should your situation be the one that is  highlighted.  It’s incredibly unfair I agree but fortunately (for others, and NOT you) it’s absolutely  a one-of–a-kind situation.  I don’t know that you will ever be fortunate enough to resolve your situation because it is so unique. Others, should be able to make headway. (hopefully)

Deb

--

[abrowne]

Susan,

I don't know who you're talking to.  Those who think you get "free money", are they

crazy?  Do they have the same disabilities and constant physical/mental struggles that

you do?  You said before you are not able to work that much, though you would like

to.  The people saying this to you probably are not only able to work, but making

good money.  Don't listen to them, unless they struggle the same way you do.

Angela

---

From: Olli <sus...@rocketmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:00:02 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49879 ] From ODSP to Workfare

i dont think we would get along in real life.

but ive never been garanteed anything in my life. i don't know anyone who has.4

i cant expect to get free mony all my life and do nothing for it. its been realy helpful so far but i know it can go away anytime.

i know normal people who dont like me because i take mony for disability so i now i should work somehow to pay back what they are giving me.

[Bill Higgs]

heres a good example if you are receiving CPP-D there are NO directives, NO update reviews, NO invasion of my privacy and snooping at my credit bureau file, and you are allowed to make up to 6000 I belive without any reduction in ytour CPP-D cheque, NO restrictions on assets and on and on,  how on earth can this be??????

also interesting to note is that almost 50% of the total cost of the ODSP program is spent on administrative cost ie overpaid ODSP workers who do little except enforce directives (all 800 of them) and in no way does that money spent help us.

in fact I bet if the figures were crunched and every ODSP worker was termnated without further pay and a simple flat income model like CPP-D was adopted that the savings that the government currently craves so much would be incomprehensible.

 

seems odd to me, I dont recognize your name, Have you been a member here for a long time??? I dont recall seeing a post from you till the last few days

 

Bill

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Olli

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:00 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49879 ] From ODSP to Workfare

i dont think we would get along in real life.

but ive never been garanteed anything in my life. i don't know anyone who has.4

i cant expect to get free mony all my life and do nothing for it. its been realy helpful so far but i know it can go away anytime.

i know normal people who dont like me because i take mony for disability so i now i should work somehow to pay back what they are giving me.

--

[abrowne]

Susan.

Of course, you'd be giving back, as the more you work, you pay more in taxes.  You'd be taxed

no differently than somebody that earns that same amount.  If Bill received the hypothetical $12,000

from ODSP, and he went to work or received another $12,000 in some other way, maybe through

renting part of his house, he would be taxed no differently than somebody who made all of their

$24,000 by working, subject of course to the usual deductions that landlords might enjoy to keep

up their property, etc., as well as personal exemptions and such, that everyone else enjoys.

Angela

---

From: Olli <sus...@rocketmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:20:46 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49878 ] From ODSP to Workfare

if your guaranteed  12000 a year from people and then you start making more on top of that by working dont you think you should give back?

we do that in our church. and when you put in voluntering and the outreach work we do with the 10% tith we're putting a lot back into our community.

do nt you think we all should be doing the same?

when i face god i don want him telling me i was greedy. i want to help people.

[abrowne]

Deb,

I am not sure if I am particularly unique.  Ask ANYONE self employed.  Self employment

rules set up businesses to fail.  This is particularly bad, because if they left my money alone

and allowed me to run my business the same way any other business is run, I would be able

to hire and grow, even possibly set up an office in Toronto as well as here and facilitate a

retirement at some stage-- a real retirement, not a welfare retirement.

Those employed should not be clawed back 50 - 57% either.  Deal with everything through

the tax system and deal with ODSP as with any other income as though it were all taxed.

Ex. an individual gets $14,000 a year on ODSP, and then works and gets another $10,000.

That person would be treated by the TAX SYSTEM as though they earned $24,000, and

taxed etc. as such as anybody else making the same amount.  If they cannot work and only

get the $14,000, their income is not taxed as taxation should not start until a certain level to 

keep people who are very low income out of the tax system, even low income employed workers.

They would have the personal, the disability and other exemptions to count on.

This is the only way or some way similar that I can envision this being set up to: (a) keep an

incentive to work and probably get more people who can and want to work working; (b) there

will still be some who work under the table, but not as much; (c) those who get ODSP as a

disability GAI would not feel they are clawed back in their earnings more than millionaires are;

and (d) as people earn more they will be paying more taxes, which will take care of a lot of

the costs to this measure.

For example if I were on this disability GAI, and then found a job that miraculously hires me

despite not being able to drive, and it pays me $80,000 a year, I'd still get the GAI, but I'd

be paying more taxes back the point I am paying way more into the system than I am getting.

Angela

---

From: Bloggy.Deb <blogg...@gmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 11:11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49876 ] From ODSP to Workfare

[ROBERT ALDRED]

I would suggest there is nothing wrong with you.   The people who dont like you have a problem.  We as a people have legislated supports for all of us when jobs are lost or the economy shrinks as it does again and again.  Downturns are a structural feature of Capitalism.   We have also made provision to take care of those who cant take care of themselves.   A Judeo-Christian position according to most.   We are suppose to help our neightbours.  If people are angry about that my wife would have said they are not Christians.   She was.   Im not.   But she thought I was nice.

Robert



On Sat 20/04/13 8:00 AM , Olli sus...@rocketmail.com sent:

[abrowne]

Susan, you were here since Feb 23 of this year.

---

From: Olli <sus...@rocketmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 2:56:38 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49892 ] From ODSP to Workfare

i watched this group for a a couple of years now. thanks. how long have you been here?/

[Bloggy.Deb]

Bill I am not an expert, so this is my observation and only should be judged as thus,  but maybe the difference lies in the fact that CPP-D(AFAIK) a pension, and federally governed, ODSP is an allowance, I believe they “generously” title it (ha ha) and is provincial.

What do you think?

Deb

[abrowne]

Maybe they need to reconsider it and move ODSP away from being a form of welfare, because

many if not most will not be able to work themselves off it.  Besides that, it penalizes the whole

family and expects the person with the disability to be dependent on others forever.

A

---

From: Bloggy.Deb <blogg...@gmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 3:24:15 PM
Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49896 ] From ODSP to Workfare

[Bill Higgs]

dont forget the current proposals for ODSP reform are planning to take a lot of those "benefits" that you have enjoyed away!!!!!

 

Bill

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Olli

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 5:50 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49864 ] From ODSP to Workfare

sur your getting 50% taking off your incone but your keeping the 12,000 odsp is still giving. and they give you lots of benefits besides like meds and eye exams and glasses and other stuff they've halped me with.

if you work your still ahead. i dont just like sitting aroudn like other people do. some people cant manage their mony or make good choices with things but has nothing do do with anyone else.

i just dont understand why people dont want to work if it will get them ahead.

[Bill Higgs]

just to prove how determined odsp is to see that recipients remain in poverty

CPP-D  gives cost of living increase annually,  Can someone explain why if Cpp desides cost of living went yup ten dollars a month, ODSP seem to thin its fair that theat 10 dollar CPP increase will be snatched off your ODSP cheque

CPP says cost of living increased by 3% and give you a raise  and then ODSP says the feds are nut it didnt increase and take it away.

If that doesnt rpove how rotten to the core ODSP is I dont know what will!!!!!!

 

Bill

[Bill Higgs]

since you asked 7 years and have been an acttive participant for those 7 years

 

Bill

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Olli

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 2:56 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Re: Re: RE: [odspfireside: 49892 ] From ODSP to Workfare

i watched this group for a a couple of years now. thanks. how long have you been here?/

On Saturday, April 20, 2013 2:15:31 PM UTC-4, tooguyca wrote:

[Bill Higgs]

here is 1 example of my income while receiving ODSP

 

I won a home, I have a roomate/tenant who is also an ODSP recipient, 

my support breakadown is more or less like this 800 from cpp-d balance from ODSP up to the singles amount

 

roomate pays 400 to live here

ODSP deducts 260 bucks off my cheque due to this income leaving me with a net  increase to my monthly income of about 140 bucks of which I have to apy theincreased costs of having a tenant in utilities, maintenace , wear and tear etc etc

so to be quite honest when all is said and done  I my be 40 to 60 bucks better off by having a roomate/tenant

I sure as hell dont consider this fair!!!!!!!!

 

Picture this if I was to raise his rent by 100 dollars to improve my total income,

it would break down like this, 

his cost of living would go up 100 bucks for accomodation which he would have to cut back on his needs portion of his cheque

ODSP would hack another 60 bucks off my cheque

and I would have 40 bucks form the rent increase in my pocket

while aty the same time seeing my ODSPcheque go down 60 bucks

 

seems to me the only one gaining here is ODSP, while both me and the roomate are worse off

 

 

Bill

[Bloggy.Deb]

Heck Bill, that makes me a relative noob compared to you.

Deb

--

[corrinna]

It was a typo. Bill didn’t “win” a home, he “owns” a home. He had to buy it.

 

To add, if all my expenses were paid for by ODSP, why do I have debt, have to pay for glasses,

glaucoma testing, dental and all the other needs I have? My rent isn’t even covered, only about 70% of it, plus I have to pay

hydro on top of it. Lots of assumptions.

 

From: Olli

 

but you got a free house to live in. and your expenses are paid by odsp plus having a room mate.
there arent many of us as well off as you. your rich compared to friedns i have.



On Saturday, April 20, 2013 7:32:18 PM UTC-4, tooguyca wrote:

 

I won a home,

 

 

Bill

 

 

[Deborah Masters nee Alexander]

See Yah, So Long,

DEB

---

From: adora...@hotmail.com
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [odspfireside: 49919 ] Troll of the Month
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 17:22:44 -0400
P.S.
Olli how do you get ODSP is free money.  Not able to work means being controlled by a bunch of puppet masters.  To bad government rip offs were not under same scrutiny.  Seems most government slip ups "conflict of interest" are answered with plea of ignorance.  Wish ODSP recipients were granted same plight

See Yah, So Long,

DEB

---

Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 09:06:26 -0700
From: melani...@yahoo.ca
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [odspfireside: 49919 ] Troll of the Month

You seem to be a troll Olli.  Now stop bothering Bill and Angela and anyone else.  Bill does not get a free house to live in, etc.  He does not.