[odspfireside: 49884 ] Re: Re: [ODSP AC Discussion] Toby Barrett and Wynne on Social Assistance

[Bill Higgs]

 

its totally understandable!!!!!!!!    that money is better directed according to the Fiberals to pay for the close to 1 billion debt created by cancelling 2 partially built power plants simply to save 2 liberal seats and the fact that part of the caellation cost is gonna be tacked on to hydro bills for decades to come

but then again debt retirement charge phase one hasnt even managed to be paid off, How many years has it been already????

 

Bill

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: SW

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 2:13 PM

Subject: [odspfireside: 49884 ] Re: Re: [ODSP AC Discussion] Toby Barrett and Wynne on Social Assistance

End poverty by putting ODSP recipients on $460 less??? I know I'm bad at math, but there is a serious flaw with this logic.....

On Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:44:49 AM UTC-4, Olli wrote:

what does it take to get elected where we could make some real changes.

like bringin back the dietary allowance. i know some people that really needed that mony to eat healthy.
the community start up was cut as well ant that was the only way somone could move if they were on disability. i needed it wonce too.

do you think people whould elect someone like us though? ive tried volunteering at shelters and food banks a few times and was turned down because i used there services to.

it would be the same getting elected i think. they'd just think we were trying to get elected to get more money for us.

On Friday, April 19, 2013 9:12:24 PM UTC-4, Glenn wrote:

I think all Tories in office should be arrested for crimes against humanity.   Elect me.  Ill do it.

Robert

[chrys...@primus.ca]

We need financed participation in our society.    With proper food, funding and a belief in building organizations like unions and better we will lose weight.   I propose that if people have a weight problem that programs, transportation, and anything else necessary to address the problem be provided by ending tax breaks to the people who benefit from business welfare.   Capitalism is about assuming risk and therefore rewards.   Let them take risks for a change and not have government insurance of profits through Welfare for the rich payments.



On Mon 22/04/13 1:38 AM , Olli sus...@rocketmail.com sent:

but i like macdonalds. but i also need to loose  weight. :)

On Monday, April 22, 2013 12:05:15 AM UTC-4, SW wrote:

I will believe this because honestly, the Liberal's proposal to end poverty by reducing ODSP benefits is like saying we will reduce obesity by giving everyone free gift cards to McDonalds...

On Sunday, April 21, 2013 7:26:39 PM UTC-4, jbkeh wrote:

And you still don't know.

Quit listening to the rumor-mongers.

A report is one thing; government legislation is something else and often quite different. Nothing is yet decided.

On Sunday, April 21, 2013 3:26:06 PM UTC-4, Olli wrote:

i didnt know they were going to put everyone on odsp back at what people on ow make.

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[ROBERT ALDRED]

The problem with the suppliment fraud is it will suffer the fate of so many other suppliment guarantees like the start up suppliment or now the Special diet suppliment.   They are seen and will be seen as not a core funding programs.   It will be subject to elimination at a future date if or when the Tories get into government again.   It is a simple thing.   One adequate income for all on ODSP.   Perhaps around $1700.00 a month to cover our expenses.    Then they can add vunerable suppliments for medical transportation and start up.    All else is a race to the bottom plan implemented, if history is any teacher by the cooperation in practice of the Liberal-Tory see-saw alliance of more Welfare for the rich.  Having said that I dont believe now that people will see much of a loss in incomes.   A few dollars.    Its over time that I am concerned about.



On Mon 22/04/13 7:55 AM , Goldielover fio...@hotmail.com sent:

No, that's not true.  At this time it is just a report that is under consideration.  I know the SAR report makes fairly lengthy reading, but many of us actually did plow through it when it first came out.  Their proposal is to merge the two programs, and to have the same base amount for everyone.  (That's where the confusion is coming in, as some didn't bother to read past this point.)  To the base amount they then add a disability supplement, and supplements for dependents, which would likely bring us up fairly close to what the base amount for ODSP is now.  What IS at risk are things like the Special Diet allowance, which has specifically been targeted for elimination, and possibly other benefits like the Medical Transportation allowance, and the $100.00 In Work benefit.

What we do have to remember, though, is THAT NONE OF THIS IS DEFINITE YET.  Change WILL come , there is no doubt about that, but there have been no announcements as exactly what recommendations from the SAR report will be implemented.  They could implement all of them, or they could choose to only implement some of them.  We just do not know at this time.  There is also the possibility that the current Liberal government will not survive, and an election will be called.    If that happens, and another party gets in, then any changes could be quite different altogether.  Changes will still come - I believe both the Tories and the NDP have mentioned that - but we don't know anything much about what their proposals would be.

On Sunday, April 21, 2013 8:20:52 PM UTC-4, Olli wrote:

SW said in thepost before me their cutting us on odsp 460 dollers. so thats not true?

[ROBERT ALDRED]

The report by Lankin and I forget his name may come to nothing.   It is deeply unpopular and the Liberals need all the help they can get to stay in office. 



On Mon 22/04/13 7:10 PM , Olli sus...@rocketmail.com sent:

i am part native and i remember my grandfather teaching me somthin like this - a debt that is unpayable is a debt that does not exist.

i think i understand what he meant now. it never meant anything  to me before.

[ROBERT ALDRED]

I agree for sure.   Lets keep our fingers crossed.



On Mon 22/04/13 5:52 PM , SW stormwon...@gmail.com sent:

I didn't say they were cutting the $460, I was saying if they plan to reduce poverty, reducing ODSP isn't going to solve poverty. I know these are all just speculations. Let's hope nothing comes of it.

[Bloggy.Deb]

Quoting Robert

“  Capitalism is about assuming risk and therefore rewards”…

I agree with that wholeheartedly, and when such entities do take the risks, they darned well deserve the rewards. I agree nobody should be dependent on government.

Deb   

[Bill Higgs]

Robert,  you are so right,, when something is switched to a "supplement" there is your sign that it is subject to be chopped at the drop of a feather,

much like how "discretionary" benefit is tantamount to "unable to be collected" or "at the whim of the worker"

 

Bill

[ROBERT ALDRED]

Im on board here.   The loss of rights alone shows this is a bad idea.



On Mon 22/04/13 11:22 AM , Goldielover fio...@hotmail.com sent:

Agreed - I don't think ODSP should be downloaded to the municipalities.  It will end up being like OW, where discretionary benefits can vary from place to place.  If they are determined to proceed with amalgamation (and I can see some benefits to it as well) then they should upload OW to the province, like it used to be.  The loss of the special diet will impact quite a few, especially if they don't have a condition which causes severe wasting.  While it seems pretty certain that the special diet allowance as we know it will be cut, we should at least be pushing for a reasonable increase in the living allowance to cover a healthy diet. 

On Monday, April 22, 2013 7:58:52 AM UTC-4, tooguyca wrote:

it has been proposed by the Liberals, so whether the cut does in fact happen has yet to be seen BUT the prosed cuts and amalgamation ofd ODSP and OW must be opposed NOW, because after its put into law, it will be too late to stop them

Contact your MPP or anyone else who will listen and complain long and loud with your opposition to these proposals

 

Bill

[ROBERT ALDRED]

It used to be Olli.  Today people work many jobs and find it hard to make ends meet.   We need a big change here.  It isnt like this country couldn't do it.   We are a much richer country now with all sorts of options.    The jobs problem and other issues are why people use the term "Legislated Poverty."   We need desperately a redistribution of the wealth, good wages, and a government that will create jobs for everyone that can work.     



On Mon 22/04/13 12:32 PM , Olli sus...@rocketmail.com sent:

financed participation in society usd to be getting a wage. one person could raise a family on a basic wage. now it takes to and is still not enough.

and business welfare is stilll welfare to people who will not vote for it. id take a risk for working but i know it wont work out and ill not have odsp or anything and be on the street. why should i be when there are so many rich people working for the goverment.

On Monday, April 22, 2013 11:04:57 AM UTC-4, Glenn wrote:

We need financed participation in our society.    With proper food, funding and a belief in building organizations like unions and better we will lose weight.   I propose that if people have a weight problem that programs, transportation, and anything else necessary to address the problem be provided by ending tax breaks to the people who benefit from business welfare.   Capitalism is about assuming risk and therefore rewards.   Let them take risks for a change and not have government insurance of profits through Welfare for the rich payments.



On Mon 22/04/13 1:38 AM , Olli sus...@rocketmail.com sent:

but i like macdonalds. but i also need to loose  weight. :)

On Monday, April 22, 2013 12:05:15 AM UTC-4, SW wrote:

I will believe this because honestly, the Liberal's proposal to end poverty by reducing ODSP benefits is like saying we will reduce obesity by giving everyone free gift cards to McDonalds...

On Sunday, April 21, 2013 7:26:39 PM UTC-4, jbkeh wrote:

And you still don't know.

Quit listening to the rumor-mongers.

A report is one thing; government legislation is something else and often quite different. Nothing is yet decided.

On Sunday, April 21, 2013 3:26:06 PM UTC-4, Olli wrote:

i didnt know they were going to put everyone on odsp back at what people on ow make.

[ROBERT ALDRED]

That is my feeling too.   It has been a long road down to this.   We were discussing this eventuality Fifteen years ago here.   People like their Social Programs so governments have to go slow and lie a lot to get them away from the people.  



On Tue 23/04/13 7:44 PM , abrowne browne...@yahoo.com sent:

Goldie, it doesn't say which body in that bill, but in their own discussion paper, they

want the municipalities to take over all of the programs.  If that happens, we will see

cuts that will make Mike Harris look like a pinko.

Angela

From: Goldielover
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 6:47:50 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 49955 ] Re: Re: [ODSP AC Discussion] Toby Barrett and Wynne on Social Assistance

Interesting.  One thing I noted - they do not specify which body will administer a consolidated program.  So, will it be the province, or the local municipality? 

[ROBERT ALDRED]

Criminals have to move fast.   Shock and Awe.  The Shock Doctrine.   Fun and games from Tories.

Robert



On Tue 23/04/13 9:46 PM , jbkeh j...@teksavvy.com sent:

Oh, wow!

A bill which, if and when passed, requires the government to table another bill within 4 months of the original bill receiving royal assent that, in turn, will consolidate OW and ODSP (structure and rates undefined) and will, if and when passed, require the consolidated program to be operational within six months of the second bill receiving royal assent.

Should be good to keep things at bay for a couple of years (assuming it doesn't die because of a prorogue or election).

On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 4:28:08 PM UTC-4, Ron Payne wrote:

This was done extremely fast.

[ROBERT ALDRED]

In that case we should all move into Queens Park and  live there.   



On Wed 24/04/13 9:37 PM , "Bill Higgs" bill...@xplornet.com sent:

strike the liberals and conservatives off your  voting list, they have both considered it

and hwat do you think "dietary supplements" is about, its simply a way for the government to unsure special diet money is not used to pay rent  or utitlies or any other bill that may take priority

like I have said having a bunch of nutritious food doesnt sdo any good if you havent got electricty to run the fridge because our hydro was cut off

 

 

Bill

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Bloggy.Deb

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:25 PM

Subject: RE: [odspfireside: 50001 ] Re: Re: [ODSP AC Discussion] Toby Barrett and Wynne on Social Assistance

I find that I am in agreement with Angela, I am an advocate for personal responsibility and taking ownership for ones actions.  If I, Angela or anyone chooses to purchase whatever, it’s that persons choice to make, and subsequently the repercussions are theirs also; I will never vote for any government that will distribute food debit cards.

 

Deb

 

From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of abrowne
Sent: April-24-13 4:29 PM
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 49995 ] Re: Re: [ODSP AC Discussion] Toby Barrett and Wynne on Social Assistance

[ROBERT ALDRED]

If they go to a system of using banks cards for the food portion of ODSP there will be a huge movement of people from inside to outside living.    Think about it.   Amazing.

[Bloggy.Deb]

Amazing is not the word I’d use foolish, dumb, reckless, sad, ludicrous, wrongheaded are what immediately leap to mind; I could keep going, but you bet the sentiment, going the route of bank cards for food, is wrong on so many levels.

D