Future topic on remote access; request for comments

[Seth House]

I'd like to have a future meeting on remote access -- mostly GUI stuff
with a little GNU screen and ssh mixed in. I've compiled a preliminary
list of programs below; did I miss anything important? Is there
anything specific you would like to get out of this?

It would be nice if a few people could step up and give a quick
presentation on one or two of these. Specifically, does anyone know
about the granddaddy, VNC (and its myriad of implementations)?

Also, I thought I've read that some window managers can detach/
reattach sessions; does anyone know for sure?

* GNU screen
* vanilla X11
* ssh (tunneling X, port-forwarding, SOCKS proxy)
* xpra
* xmove
* NX
* VNC
* detachable window managers (?)

[Christian Horne]

tightvnc is important, you might also want to investigate virtualgl on
wikipedia.

--
the blendmaster

[Stan Johns]

I would like to see how to get NX to work over the Internet. I have only been able to get it working over an intranet. Also, if it is at all possible I would like to know how to see the same screen as a person sitting at the remote machine so I can assist them with items they are seeing.

Thank you

[Stuart Jansen]

On Thu, 2009-09-24 at 10:30 -0600, Stan Johns wrote:
> I would like to see how to get NX to work over the Internet. I have
> only been able to get it working over an intranet. Also, if it is at
> all possible I would like to know how to see the same screen as a
> person sitting at the remote machine so I can assist them with items
> they are seeing.

NX over the Internet is easy. I'm surprised it didn't work for you. Most
likely your problem was unrelated to NX. If you can SSH into the server,
you can NX into the server.

NX does not currently support sharing sessions. A custom solution in
combination with VNC could be achieved, but it'd take a little custom
software.

--
"XML is like violence: if it doesn't solve your problem, you aren't
using enough of it." - Chris Maden

[brandon]

You forgot the most functional client out there: xrdp.

We've been lobbying Redhat to switch to this. It is great. You can
setup an xrdp server, it accepts windows remote terminal sessions as
well as 'rdesktop' from linux. Then it logs you in either to a VNC
server locally (and transparently), or it can VNC directly into the
local host's X-server, or it can even just open a new RDP connection to
a new host (you can configure all of this).

And you get the benefit of a very efficient protocol (RDP), which is
much more secure and capable than VNC.

IMHO you have two choices for remote access. If CLI is sufficient, use
SSH. Otherwise, use xrdp--it integrates the best with your users, and
uses a good protocol for WANs.

-Brandon

[Stuart Jansen]

On Thu, 2009-09-24 at 15:01 -0600, brandon wrote:
> You forgot the most functional client out there: xrdp.

xrdp is a server, not a client.

> We've been lobbying Redhat to switch to this. It is great.

xrdp is basically abandoned. It only implements RDPv4, which is
insecure. It can't implement RDPv5 because of patents. The code is such
an ugly hash I'd rather poke my eyes out than work on it.

> If CLI is sufficient, use SSH.

If CLI isn't sufficient, use NX, which has superior cacheing and uses
SSH as its transport protocol.

[brandon]

Stuart Jansen wrote:

On Thu, 2009-09-24 at 15:01 -0600, brandon wrote:
  

You forgot the most functional client out there: xrdp.
    

xrdp is a server, not a client.
  

Sorry for the quick response, I mis-spoke and should have been more clear.  The implication is that everybody already /has/ the client, the server part is all that is needed to use an existing client.

We've been lobbying Redhat to switch to this.  It is great.
    

xrdp is basically abandoned. It only implements RDPv4, which is
insecure. It can't implement RDPv5 because of patents. The code is such
an ugly hash I'd rather poke my eyes out than work on it.
  

I'll agree to that in a heartbeat (having submitted a fixes).

If CLI is sufficient, use SSH.
    

If CLI isn't sufficient, use NX, which has superior cacheing and uses
SSH as its transport protocol.
  

The advantage is that XRDP works with windows, and windows users.  The whole embrace and extend methodology in reverse.  It is much easier to get a windows user to use a tool already installed on their desktop, which they are comfortable with, than to ask them to install a new client from those wierd open source guys.

I haven't used NX, sounds like it might be a good option.  The big problem in my environment is if it has been approved by the DoD or not :)  RDP is an accepted and approved protocol, and xRDP is on existing software approvals.  Tossing in a new client/server architecture, while it may be better, is about a 2-3 year process (I do not jest).

However, I will look into it.

-Brandon

[Tristan Rhodes]

NX is my preferred solution for remote GUI access.  The NX client has been free forever, but they have also recently released a limited version of the NX server.  It works great for basic administrative access, up to two concurrent sessions.

http://www.nomachine.com/select-package.php?os=linux&id=1

There are a couple open source implementations of the NX protocol.  The first was called FreeNX, which worked but never really caught on.

http://freenx.berlios.de/

Most recently, Google has announced their NeatX implmentation, which will likely be included in their Chrome OS when it is released.  I am hoping this will also been included with every Linux to replace VNC, which has many problems (lack of native encryption, not efficient use of bandwidth, limited authentication methods).

http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/07/releasing-neatx-open-source-nx-servier.html

Good luck with that government certification process!  ;)

Tristan

[Seth House]

FYI: I've updated our Google Calendar to reflect our usual holiday
date change to avoid holiday vacations and family time.

We will meet on November 10th and December 8th, both are Tuesdays. If
anyone feels strongly about another day let me know soon. Per
tradition, lets also move the meetings from our usual place to Grounds
for Coffee on 25th street. I'll send out reminders once we're closer
to the dates.

The November meeting will be "Everything you wanted to know about
remote access." This will also allow us to actually test remote access
since we won't be fighting the library's locked-down network. :)

* Will someone present a few minutes on VNC?

* Will someone present a few minutes on GNU screen multiuser?

* Is anyone interested in presenting on RDP? (Brandon? If no one
steps up, I think I'll skip it.)

[Mark Clanton]

Seth,

 

Are you at the UTOSC?

 

If so, maybe we can meet and talk.

 

Mark Clanton

----- Original Message -----

From: Seth House

Sent: 10/08/09 01:48 am

To: Ogden Area Linux Users Group

Subject: [oalug] Holidays meetings date changes; November topic will be Remote Access

[Seth House]

Another reminder that our November meeting will be on the 10th. The
topic will be Everything You Wanted to Know about Remote Access.

If anyone feels strongly about a different day or time, now is the
time to speak up. (Michael?)

Does anyone know of a good, wifi-enabled place to meet? Grounds for
Coffee on 25th closes too early. Grounds for Coffee on Harrison has
buggy wireless and is often pretty packed, but that's the location
unless someone knows of a better.

Also, I'd still appreciate a co-presenter, or two, for VNC and GNU
screen multiuser.