What is a Good I.D.E?
matt_thomson
(including variables that you have created in your script) plus it
checks all my little grammitical errors in php,html and css.
I saw Jochen using Zend the other day and thought that I haven't
looked into different IDEs and what are the pros/cons of them.
Does anyone have any opinions what are the best ones and why.
Thanks,
Matt.
Dave Lane
1. a web browser with a combination of tabs to look at php.net, google,
etc. for reference,
2. a very efficient, refined text editor, (most include good search and
replace (with regex), syntax highlighting, version control integration,
and very low overhead), and
3. touch typing.
It's just a question of where you want to invest your time to maximise
your future productivity and how you address the learning curve.
My impression (and personal experience having tried a dozen or so over
the years) is that full IDEs seem like a good idea at first (and,
arguably, are), but eventually they get in your way, slowing you down...
just like mouse-driven point and click GUI app interfaces.
The main reason I always go back to emacs is that it's... light and
mature. And I can use it on remote servers without having to switch gears.
Cheers,
Dave
--
Dave Lane = Egressive Ltd = da...@egressive.com = m: +64 21 229 8147
p: +64 3 9633733 = Linux: it just tastes better = nosoftwarepatents
http://egressive.com ==== we only use open standards: http://w3.org
Effusion Group Founding Member =========== http://effusiongroup.com
Sid Bachtiar
- Code completion
- Project tree view
- Source code outline
- SVN/CVS support
- Code validation
- Extendable, e.g.: plugins
I'm using Zend Studio for Eclipse at work and it is very nice. You
would need a high performance machine, but it's worth it.
wakes
caveats:
Pros:
Doing web stuff is not just PHP or other back-end language of choice,
it's also XHTML, XML, UML, SQL and others which it handles in its
stride (including graphical editing)
Works on Linux, Max, Windows (as is Java based) so whatever
development shop you go into it should be supported
Open Source - If you don't like what it does you can change and make a
difference (or just look for another plugin which does the job)
Customisable everything (maybe too much?)
PHPEclipse plugin highlights undeclared/unassigned variables which is
really good for a typeless language
Cons:
It's a bit java-centric, getting debugging etc with PHP is a pain
There doesn't appear to be a recently updated free php environment for
later versions (I use PHPEclipse, though maybe the PDT is supposed to
superseed it it isn't available in a stable release yet)
You need to be running it locally with a gui.
The Java VM and support environment can be a killer on a low-resource
system.
Considering the whole plan was to focus on building an extendable IDE
the management and versioning of keeping it running can be a pain.
Cheers,
Steve
Robbie MacKay
Until recently I've only used Notepad++ -- for a few reasons. One of
the mains ones was that no matter what language I was using it would
give me syntax highlighting (I used it for more then just web
programming). Also its very light weight.
However lately I've been doing lots of php/html/js work and the lack
of integration has been bugging me so I've looked at other IDE's.
I had to use Dreamweaver for work for a little while - but it was just
too slow and as soon as I started doing anything complicated I broke
the plugins so it started to lose its advantages.
I tried Eclipse but setting up php integration wasnt too good.. and
the final point which made me abandon it was a lack of a proper built
in word wrap.
I also looked at jedit but I didn't like not getting a native windows
interface plus it just didn't seem to agree with me - not quite sure
why...
In the last few days I've been playing with Aptana - it looks
promising.
Its built on Eclipse. Fixes the word wrap with a quick script. Has
good integration with PHP and other various web languages. Its open
source (though you lose a couple of minor features in the OS version
compared to the pro version).
It also has a few interesting looking features: Adobe Air support,
Ruby on Rails Rad development plugin, iPhone plugin... haven't
explored these yet but they could be useful. Also it has built in
support for alot of the main AJAX libraries around.
The main issue however is it doesn't appear to be totally stable yet -
the latest update to their PHP plugin seems to have broken it
entirely.
But I've logged the bug and we'll see what the turn around on it is...
or if I can just downgrade the plugin again.
Hope that's helpful to you.
I'll let you know how I get on with Aptana.
Cheers,
Robbie.
wakes
version of Eclipse is now available as an all-in-one at:
http://downloads.zend.com/pdt/all-in-one/
So if you want to give Eclipse a go I guess go there. I don't want to
break my current env so won't be doing it but if you do please update
me or the group...
Robbie MacKay
Just got a response from Aptana - apparently I managed to install a
new version of the plugin which required the new version of Aptana
without upgrading Aptana.
So their upgrades/plugin install's may be a little buggy. However I
got a reply from their support/developers within hours - even using
the free version! :)
I'm happy with that. It appears the fix they gave me should work too -
when it finally downloads :) (woosh is sucky)
Daniel Weeks
Does anybody know of a good wireless provider in Hamilton? I don't have a
phone line at my new place, and of the few wireless providers in the
Hamilton area, I can only find one which promises static IP's Rush Wireless
(http://www.rush.net.nz/plans.php?sec=internet+plans&cat=business+users)
Who I have never heard of, however would trust because their website is PHP
based.
I would use xnet but they don't release wireless until September this year.
Thanks in advance,
Daniel
Dalibor Andzakovic
Eclipse + PDT + JSEdit + Subclipse. Best installed from basic eclipse
platform via the update manager.
Add xdebug to taste :-)
I've found Aptana pretty good feature wise, but a bit unstable.
Caveat Emperor: I spend 90% of my time in PHP and 5% in html/
javascript.
YMMV
dali
James McGlinn
> http://downloads.zend.com/pdt/all-in-one/
>
> So if you want to give Eclipse a go I guess go there. I don't want to
> break my current env so won't be doing it but if you do please update
> me or the group...
I've been beta testing this for a few months now, and with the new
release my Zend Studio license works on Neon so I'll be keeping it.
Eclipse is resource hungry but on a quick machine (2.6Ghz MacBook
Pro / 4GB RAM) it sings.
I haven't used Aptana but Eclipse is more stable with my setup than
Zend Studio was, the Subversion integration and debugger work
similarly. I far prefer Eclipse's autocomplete/hinting but I'm not
sure why... it just "feels" better. Code folding is nice to have
too. To be honest it's been so long since I fired up Zend Studio I've
almost forgotten what the differences are.
Kind Regards,
James McGlinn
__________________________________
Eventfinder Limited
Suite 6, Level 1 Heards Building
168 Parnell Rd, Auckland 1052
Phone: 021 633 234
Steven Gilberd
need, and above all it's fast as hell and has a plethora of useful hotkeys.
The syntax highlighter is also damn good at combining several languages
within the same source file, something I've found other editors to be
rather sub-par at.
Cheers,
Steve
James McGlinn
> All the really good programmers I know use
> 1. a web browser with a combination of tabs to look at php.net,
> google, etc. for reference,
> 2. a very efficient, refined text editor, (most include good search
> and replace (with regex), syntax highlighting, version control
> integration, and very low overhead), and
> 3. touch typing.
4. a debugger.
Even if it's xdebug plugged into vim. I don't know any *really* good
programmers who don't use a debugger.
Julian Melville
> I generally prefer kate (kde advanced text editor).
Kate is a fantastic editor. Something I noticed just the other day is
that it now installs and runs (on Debian at least) without needing to
bring along the rest of the KDE environment, I have it running
beautifully under XFCE on an older laptop. It used to get all hung up
about not finding bits of KDE that it was expecting to see, but no more!
Julian.
Sid Bachtiar
I quite like using gedit on Ubuntu. It has syntax colouring, tree file
structure view, and few plugins to choose from.
Cameron Junge
I started using Zend Studio, which is built on Java and is now
superseded by their new Eclipse-based version. Zend IDE was slow, took a
long time to be updated and was a bit buggy. It was good with it's
support for the PHP language though.
Then I gave PHPEd a whirl, and fell in love. It's a native Windows app,
so it's fast, and is at least as good as Zend IDE was for language
support. It comes with a debugger that "just works" - no fiddling with
anything.
I wouldn't look back now, but then I haven't tried the new Zend IDE. If
it's anything like the old one, support is slack and updates are yearly,
if that! The Nusphere forums are monitored by the developer, and updates
are almost too often. Feature requests and bug fixes are added in very
quickly, and it's great to actually get a response to you questions
(most of the time).
The newer versions of PHPEd have been tested in WINE, as well.
Cameron.
-----Original Message-----
From: nzp...@googlegroups.com [mailto:nzp...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of matt_thomson
Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2008 8:28 p.m.
To: NZ PHP Users Group
Aaron Cooper
PHP - PHPEd by NuSphere
JS - Aptana or either of the above for small scripts.
I havn't checked out Zend or Eclipse for many months now, mainly due to my
initial frustrations with both being instantly addressed by PHPEd after
months of trying different IDE's.
The features that sold me:
1. The code-completion is immaculate, including user defined variables and
code completion for defined class methods and properties.
2. Built in manuals for PHP, PHP5, JS, HTML, XHTML, and MySQL in the right
hand tab panel (any manual accessable in two clicks).
3. Realtime bug detection (like missing closing parenthesis or semi-colon)
4. Built in PHPDocumentor (havn't tried this yet tho), HTML validator and
HTML Tidy
5. CVS Integration (SVN coming soon apparently)
6. Built in Debugger and Mozilla Browser
7. The support and feature request approach by NuSphere seems to be great
(I've seen release notes containing new features that were community
submitted)
8. Price (compared to Zend)
Issues:
1. Sometimes the code-completion doesn't pickup methods in a newly added
class. Might be simply me not doing something I should.
2. Sometimes the upload ceases to work. You actually have to close and
re-start the IDE to get it working again. (BTW, uploading the file currently
open/selected is ctrl-shift-s). This is very rare though.
3. Some of the keybord shortcuts take a bit of getting used to. e.g. ctrl-y
is usually redo in many apps - In PHPEd, it is 'duplicate current line'. Can
be a bit of annoyance when shifting between applications, especially DW.
4. No Mac support without using WINE (I think that's what they called it,
I'm Mac ignorant).
I have definately noticed a productivity increase, mostly due to the
accurate code completion. I suspect that I havn't spent enough time working
out many of the productivity features yet too. There are a few annoyances
with it as mentioned above, but compared to the advantages (for me), these
are damn near negligible.
Cheers
Aaron
Dave Lane
night. *slaps forehead* :)
Cheers,
Dave
--
Rob van der Linde
to the OS I am using, so when running Gnome I prefer using GTK
applications if I can. I use Geany, a lightweight, but feature rich
editor using GTK. I tend to use that for pretty much everything these
days.
- Syntax highlighting
- Code folding
- Symbols/variable browser pane
- File browser pane (needs enabling in plugins)
- Tabs, with drag & drop reordering
- Integrated terminal, scratchpad & compiler status panel at the bottom
It tends to have everything I need anyway.
When dealing with PHP files: if you hit the compile button, it does a
syntax check instead (if you have PHP installed off course), and dumps
the info in the compiler status panel at the bottom of the editor
window. It's not a debugger, but it does the job for me.
I tend to compile the latest SVN from source, but it's in the Ubuntu
repository too off course.
I used Eclipse for a while, it's a great IDE, a tad slow me, but it's
not too bad. Thing is I was never really using it's advanced features
anyway, so I went back to a more minimalistic editor, which I tend to
prefer.
Aaron Cooper
Workspaces.
You can have different projects (or multiple) linked to each work spaces,
and when you switch between Workspaces, or even close the application down
althogether, PHPEd will remember what files were open, what line you were
at, and the file system structure (what folders were expanded) on the left
bar. Very handy if you are currently multi-tasking projects.
Cameron Junge
the Settings you can customize the shortcuts, even assigning multiple
shortcuts to the same command.
I really love the debugger in PHPEd, it'll even debug remote files that
aren't in a project, something that the Zend IDE didn't do!
PHPDoc is great, but the way PHPEd does the blocks isn't as nice as Zend
IDE. ZIDE used to complete the blocks based on the function the block
was entered above, ie. Prototyping the parameters & returns. PHPEd makes
it a more manual thing, unfortunately.
Cameron
-----Original Message-----
From: nzp...@googlegroups.com [mailto:nzp...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Aaron Cooper
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2008 10:09 a.m.
To: nzp...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [phpug] Re: What is a Good I.D.E?
[SNIP]
Aaron Cooper
(one the first things I looked for in the forums), but I found posts stating
that many of the more important ones cannot be changed.
Cheers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Junge" <cju...@author-it.com>
To: <nzp...@googlegroups.com>
Cameron Junge
Some can be changed in the IDE area, others in the Editor area.
I've removed ctrl-Y for duplicate line (prefer ctrl-d from ZIDE and
ctrl-e for delete line). Ctrl-shift-z is redo I believe. I just added
ctrl-y as redo, and works fine!
Oh & workspaces do rock, as well as projects. Double-click and all the
project settings change to the selected project, including debugging
settings & code completion. I haven't started using multiple workspaces
yet, but may do soon.
Cameron.
-----Original Message-----
From: nzp...@googlegroups.com [mailto:nzp...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Aaron Cooper
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2008 10:52 a.m.
To: nzp...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [phpug] Re: What is a Good I.D.E?
Julian Melville
They're probably fairly similar to each other now, I think Kate was more
advanced a little earlier than gedit (which I seem to remember started
out as a fairly basic editor back in the day). As mentioned by Steven,
the syntax highlighting is outstanding.
Also, as I'm not running GNOME then installing gedit wants to bring
along another 42 new packages, I think Kate only needed two :)
Julian.
Steven Gilberd
much - I've never had any need to use it (I use KDE as my DE, so gedit
isn't the default editor).
Cheers,
Steve
On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:58:50 +1300, Julian Melville <jul...@tiddly-pom.com>
wrote:
matt_thomson
are similar to Komodo.