McDougall Art Gallery in Brighton Mall
Brian Sandle
the Robert McDougall Art Gallery in New Brighton Mall.
Bringing the policy for satellising of public facilities to the art arena
makes much sense. The new main gallery being built will of course be the
central star of the art universe. But the satellite galleries will act as
planets with environment suitable for habitation of more realistic
possibility than the high temperature central star.
While the new central gallery will house a greater proportion of the
City's current art collection there will be a large amount still available
for the satellites without extra cost.
It will be interesting to see how budgeting for the scheme is to be
achieved knowing the amount proposed to be spent on raoding through the
area and provision of a dozen or so car parks in the Mall. It is noted
that a long standing menswear shop is closing in the area, and a long
standing bag shop which moved to the other side of the mall some year ago
is also having its closing sale, not renewing the lease there. The roading
is proposed to be funded in part by an increase of rates. This is likely
to put a further load on businesses in the area, unles the roading
increases business in proportion. A thought was that instead of doing the
raoding and increasing the rating it might have been better to drop the
rates. The drop would be by the amount the roading could have been
intended to be susbsidised by the public. The shops could then spend the
money on developing art areas, or other cultural activities and clubs
which would bring patrons near their businesses.
I hope the gallery has painting facility attached to encourage local
talent. Provision of wider range of public activity would be most welcome.
Walking on the Pier is stimulating but to go amongst amateur and
professional artists would be another vital experience for visitors and
residents alike.
--
Brian Sandle. Remove any `shell' or other between @ and caverock to reply.
Col
>I hope the gallery has painting facility attached to encourage local
>talent. Provision of wider range of public activity would be most welcome.
Local talent is adequately catered for, There are many verticle surfaces already
transformed by there aerosol applied art ..
--
Col
Christchurch beaches are dangerous.
If in trouble hold up you hand and shout
F1 F1 F1 F1
Brian Sandle
> On 22 Aug 2001 17:12:59 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>I hope the gallery has painting facility attached to encourage local
>>talent. Provision of wider range of public activity would be most welcome.
> Local talent is adequately catered for, There are many verticle surfaces already
> transformed by there aerosol applied art ..
I understand there was some talk about whether New Brighton's image would
support the vision of status the Gallery is aiming at. It was pointed out
however that ratepayers in the suburbs are contributing to the Gallery
costs but in many cases not receiving the benefits.
As an interim for other suburbs it is being considered whether to offer to
suitable businesses large screen Internet computers linked to art
libraries. Unlike the library computers these would not be usable for
games unles they are specially art dedicated games. Means would be devised
to further the growth of the function of the Gallery for nurturing
Canterbury art. Cameras and graphiti interlinks would be provided, certain
problems being noted. It is suspected that the actual picture gallery at
New Brighton will demonstrate the value of standing in front of a real
work of art and have a much different feeling from the computer links.
There was some objection to the computer links but it was thought that the
value of them would override the doubts.
Consideration was also given to putting in a branch of the Museum. But in
the mean time it was decided just to leave that with the large mounted
bat, butterfly and scorpions in the half price shop. A branch of Ferrymead
is however being considered.
It is also noted that there is already museum in Lonsdale Street opposite
the school, and it is to be encouraged to apply for grant money.
APAIRATEEF
Col <I'm...@TheBarDrunk.com> wrote in message
news:MwWEO2F8fmDAFi...@4ax.com...
> On 22 Aug 2001 17:12:59 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz>
wrote:
>
> >I hope the gallery has painting facility attached to encourage local
> >talent. Provision of wider range of public activity would be most
welcome.
>
> Local talent is adequately catered for, There are many verticle surfaces
already
> transformed by there aerosol applied art ..
> --
>
> Col
Indeed... and i'm just waiting for my fence to be tagged again.... the
longevity since it's been waterblasted has amazed me... over 6 months now!!!
Sarns
Col
>It is also noted that there is already museum in Lonsdale Street opposite
>the school, and it is to be encouraged to apply for grant money.
Huh ? Really ?
Brian Sandle
> On 22 Aug 2001 21:28:24 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>It is also noted that there is already museum in Lonsdale Street opposite
>>the school, and it is to be encouraged to apply for grant money.
> Huh ? Really ?
Well what do you think about the money it would take for a slow road
through the Mall and what else could be done with it?
Linkname: Pier Lodge B&B on
Homestays.net.nz
URL: http://www.homestays.net.nz/pierlodge.htm
size: 72 lines
"Pier Lodge"
B&B
Hosts: Natalie Everett
97 Lonsdale Street
New Brighton
Christchurch
Postal: As above
Tel: (03) 3883388
Fax: (03) 3883388
e-mail: reve...@clear.net.nz
Nearest Town: Christchurch
Beds: 8 Bedrooms
4 Double Beds, 4 Twin Shares
Tariff: Double $60.00
Single $40.00 - Cut Rates for Groups
Continental Breakfast
'Warm and inviting' is the discovery you will make about your home
away from home accommodation here at The Pier Lodge. All beds are
completely ready made and come with electric blankets. Baby cot and
extra bunks available on request.
'Incredibly close' to just about everything. Situated 1 minute walk
from golf course and 5 minutes walk from shopping mall, licensed
restaurants, new pier and complex and, of course, the beach. QE11
Sports complex is also very conveniently located - ideal for sports
groups.
Full kitchen and dining, guest lounge with television, video and
complimentary tea and coffee. Laundry facilities available. Off street
parking, fax and e-mail services. A large garden setting to relax and
unwind in.
'Another world' is the only way to describe Lonsdale House Museum
which is located within the Pier Lodge itself. An amazing collection
of antique clocks, statues, classic paintings and many other antiques
of varying descriptions.
Brian Sandle
> Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>> On 22 Aug 2001 21:28:24 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>>It is also noted that there is already museum in Lonsdale Street opposite
>>>the school, and it is to be encouraged to apply for grant money.
>> Huh ? Really ?
> Well what do you think about the money it would take for a slow road
> through the Mall and what else could be done with it?
It looks as if I have to answer.
That road would be a win for a contracting firm and certain design sectors
of the Council.
But don't we want more sorts of vitality supported by Council?
Agriculture, and it looks like retail trading, are requiring fewer people.
The arts must take some of them, and enrich others' lives.
Ria Bancroft was a sculptor who lived in Lonsdale St, too. Her works have
been incorporated into public buildings in Christchurch but why in
Christchurch is the art side more difficult to make a living at than the
drafting, building and roading construction? Who arranged that?
Shouldn't we have more venues for Brighton artists' work in Brighton, and
arrange ways of paying them to contribute to our lives?
http://www.mcdougall.org.nz/Archive/ria_bancroft.html
Col
>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>> On 22 Aug 2001 21:28:24 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>>It is also noted that there is already museum in Lonsdale Street opposite
>>>the school, and it is to be encouraged to apply for grant money.
>
>> Huh ? Really ?
>
>Well what do you think about the money it would take for a slow road
>through the Mall and what else could be done with it?
>
The road is a waste of time and money. By the time it is finished there will be
3 or 4 more empty shops for it to go past ..
> Linkname: Pier Lodge B&B on
>Homestays.net.nz
> URL: http://www.homestays.net.nz/pierlodge.htm
> size: 72 lines
>
>
> "Pier Lodge"
> B&B
>
> Hosts: Natalie Everett
> 97 Lonsdale Street
> New Brighton
> Christchurch
> 'Another world' is the only way to describe Lonsdale House Museum
> which is located within the Pier Lodge itself. An amazing collection
> of antique clocks, statues, classic paintings and many other antiques
> of varying descriptions.
Sounds like a private "museum " to me .
Col
That would be a waste of money too . !!
Brian Sandle
What do we spend money on?
Government spending keeps money flowing stops the economy stagnating.
Government spending on military matters is one example. For some reason
it is more widely politically acceptable than other forms of government
spending. Can any other employees than soldiers worldwide be considered
worthy of government funding?
How about police? How many police do you need? When they do not solve the
problems they say it is because there is not enough for the people to do
that they cause trouble.
Is it becuase you are not interested in sculpture that you don't want to
fund it?
Would you like more Internet funding so that people can read your posts?
But is going to take a while for me to lose the suspicion that a job of
yours is to depoliticise the nz newsgroups by elsewise clogging them.
Col
>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>> On 23 Aug 2001 05:32:56 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>
>
>>>Shouldn't we have more venues for Brighton artists' work in Brighton, and
>>>arrange ways of paying them to contribute to our lives?
>> That would be a waste of money too . !!
>
How does a carved piece of Oamaru stone enrich your life . How does a mural on a
wall enrich your life .
>What do we spend money on?
Who's the royal we you keep referring to ? Are you part of some clandestine
group that allocates funding .. Do you work for the CCC mafia ?
>Government spending keeps money flowing stops the economy stagnating.
Yeah sure . In Utopia it does but this is New Zealand .
>Government spending on military matters is one example. For some reason
>it is more widely politically acceptable than other forms of government
>spending. Can any other employees than soldiers worldwide be considered
>worthy of government funding?
The gov't funds hundreds of thousands of employees . DOn't be so stupid .
>How about police? How many police do you need? When they do not solve the
>problems they say it is because there is not enough for the people to do
>that they cause trouble.
I need no police because I am not a criminal. Perhaps you mean "How many police
does the country need)
>Is it becuase you are not interested in sculpture that you don't want to
>fund it?
I certainly would not personally fund it .
I like sculpture and the arts . So far Helengrad has thrown $186 mill at the
arts . Thats plenty when one considers there are kids in Auckland and
Christchurch and the rest of the country waiting for lifesaving operations .
>Would you like more Internet funding so that people can read your posts?
People don't have to read my posts Brian. But at least (unlike yours) they can
be understood generally .
>But is going to take a while for me to lose the suspicion that a job of
>yours is to depoliticise the nz newsgroups by elsewise clogging them.
elsewise .. what a quaint word . Haven't heard that for years .. LOL
Go hug a tree Brian . :)
Brian Sandle
> On 23 Aug 2001 08:25:48 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>>> On 23 Aug 2001 05:32:56 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Shouldn't we have more venues for Brighton artists' work in Brighton, and
>>>>arrange ways of paying them to contribute to our lives?
>>> That would be a waste of money too . !!
>>
> How does a carved piece of Oamaru stone enrich your life . How does a mural on a
> wall enrich your life .
And what is it like living by a plain wall?
Is satisfying architectural design on your chop list, too?
>>What do we spend money on?
> Who's the royal we you keep referring to ? Are you part of some clandestine
> group that allocates funding
Ratepayers are offered some say in how their money is spent.
> .. Do you work for the CCC mafia ?
Now that is interesting. What is it like, I wonder. Is there such a thing?
Or is it just political parties?
>>Government spending keeps money flowing stops the economy stagnating.
> Yeah sure . In Utopia it does but this is New Zealand .
In which some people have learned to profit from the the disconveniences
of stagnation on the others.
>>Government spending on military matters is one example. For some reason
>>it is more widely politically acceptable than other forms of government
>>spending. Can any other employees than soldiers worldwide be considered
>>worthy of government funding?
> The gov't funds hundreds of thousands of employees . DOn't be so stupid .
What sort of government employees do you think might be increased in
numbers?
>>How about police? How many police do you need? When they do not solve the
>>problems they say it is because there is not enough for the people to do
>>that they cause trouble.
> I need no police because I am not a criminal. Perhaps you mean "How many police
> does the country need)
And since you are not a criminal you don't have problems with graphiti?
>>Is it becuase you are not interested in sculpture that you don't want to
>>fund it?
> I certainly would not personally fund it .
> I like sculpture and the arts . So far Helengrad has thrown $186 mill at the
> arts . Thats plenty when one considers there are kids in Auckland and
> Christchurch and the rest of the country waiting for lifesaving operations .
Having a good interesting environment for them to live in, as well as good
nutrition and sleep away from switched on computers/cellphone towers & TV
translators is likely to help them heal faster, or even prevent needs for
operations for many. That has other economic implications.
>>Would you like more Internet funding so that people can read your posts?
> People don't have to read my posts Brian. But at least (unlike yours) they can
> be understood generally .
`Can' not `must.'
>>But is going to take a while for me to lose the suspicion that a job of
>>yours is to depoliticise the nz newsgroups by elsewise clogging them.
> elsewise .. what a quaint word . Haven't heard that for years .. LOL
> Go hug a tree Brian . :)
What is left.
--
Brian Sandle. Remove any `shell'- or other between @ and caverock to reply.
Col
>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>> On 23 Aug 2001 08:25:48 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>>>> On 23 Aug 2001 05:32:56 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Shouldn't we have more venues for Brighton artists' work in Brighton, and
>>>>>arrange ways of paying them to contribute to our lives?
>>>> That would be a waste of money too . !!
>>>
>> How does a carved piece of Oamaru stone enrich your life . How does a mural on a
>> wall enrich your life .
>
>And what is it like living by a plain wall?
>
>Is satisfying architectural design on your chop list, too?
I don't have achop list and satisfying architectural design is stuff all to do
with some carved item. The are many instances of brilliant architectural works
in this city that do not invilve the efforts of stone carvers .
>>>What do we spend money on?
>
>> Who's the royal we you keep referring to ? Are you part of some clandestine
>> group that allocates funding
>
>Ratepayers are offered some say in how their money is spent.
>
Yeah sure . and look at what it got New Brighton, a concrete edifice which is a
road to nowhere. i am not against the pier but the design and the lack of a
destinational feature at the end of the pier is a trifle disappointing .
Councils make a token effort to listen to residents and then carry on with the
way they were going too anyway. (a la the Square)
I wonder how many of the businesses who voted for the road through New Brighton
mall knew the council was going tag the project as being conditional upon the
car parks being resealed .
>> .. Do you work for the CCC mafia ?
>
>Now that is interesting. What is it like, I wonder. Is there such a thing?
>Or is it just political parties?
>
>>>Government spending keeps money flowing stops the economy stagnating.
>
>> Yeah sure . In Utopia it does but this is New Zealand .
>
>In which some people have learned to profit from the the disconveniences
>of stagnation on the others.
>>>Government spending on military matters is one example. For some reason
>>>it is more widely politically acceptable than other forms of government
>>>spending. Can any other employees than soldiers worldwide be considered
>>>worthy of government funding?
>
>> The gov't funds hundreds of thousands of employees . DOn't be so stupid .
>
>What sort of government employees do you think might be increased in
>numbers?
Did I say there would be increased numbers . I said the Gov't employ hundreds
of thousands ..
>>>How about police? How many police do you need? When they do not solve the
>>>problems they say it is because there is not enough for the people to do
>>>that they cause trouble.
>
>> I need no police because I am not a criminal. Perhaps you mean "How many police
>> does the country need)
>
>And since you are not a criminal you don't have problems with graphiti?
Don't be so stupid . I don't like seeing it around the place but why involve
the police in such a petty thing .
They should employ guys like you to go around and police the graffiti
activities. You can let them know which are culturally and architecturally
sensitive and worthy of preservation .
>>>Is it becuase you are not interested in sculpture that you don't want to
>>>fund it?
>> I certainly would not personally fund it .
>> I like sculpture and the arts . So far Helengrad has thrown $186 mill at the
>> arts . Thats plenty when one considers there are kids in Auckland and
>> Christchurch and the rest of the country waiting for lifesaving operations .
>
>Having a good interesting environment for them to live in, as well as good
>nutrition and sleep away from switched on computers/cellphone towers & TV
>translators is likely to help them heal faster, or even prevent needs for
>operations for many. That has other economic implications.
So you are blaming the illnesses children get on bad food , computers,
cellphonetowers TVs etc are you . what percentage of illnesses are caused by
those aforementioned factors ?
>>>Would you like more Internet funding so that people can read your posts?
>
>> People don't have to read my posts Brian. But at least (unlike yours) they can
>> be understood generally .
>
>`Can' not `must.'
Correct. I used "can" . Go and read it again . :)
>>>But is going to take a while for me to lose the suspicion that a job of
>>>yours is to depoliticise the nz newsgroups by elsewise clogging them.
>
>> elsewise .. what a quaint word . Haven't heard that for years .. LOL
>
>> Go hug a tree Brian . :)
>
>What is left.
The opposite of right .
Brian Sandle
> On 23 Aug 2001 09:53:16 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>>
>>And what is it like living by a plain wall?
>>
>>Is satisfying architectural design on your chop list, too?
> I don't have achop list and satisfying architectural design is stuff all to do
> with some carved item.
Architectural design has to do with good shape, so does sculpture.
The are many instances of brilliant architectural works
> in this city that do not invilve the efforts of stone carvers .
Stone carving seems to be displayed in open areas in Christchurch, quite a
bit. Ria Bancroft cast in bronze amonst other media she used.
Some people do not like music. Music is shape in sound. It is hard to
ignore it in a building but you may turn your eyes away from sculpture if
it does not please you.
>>
>>Ratepayers are offered some say in how their money is spent.
>>
> Yeah sure . and look at what it got New Brighton, a concrete edifice which is a
> road to nowhere. i am not against the pier but the design and the lack of a
> destinational feature at the end of the pier is a trifle disappointing .
A tremendous amount of fund-raising was put in by the public to indicate
desire of many people for the pier. Do you think a slow mall road would go
ahead if it had be paid by fund raising of as wide a range of people? The
proposed mall road seems to be compulsory rating, plus grant.
The Pier is no more a road to nowhere than a lift in a building is when
used just for the view at the top.
> Councils make a token effort to listen to residents and then carry on with the
> way they were going too anyway. (a la the Square)
So could we get together an agreed letter from nz.reg.canterbury.general
and send it in? Please do not say no just because a few people might have
a couple of names on the newsgroup.
> I wonder how many of the businesses who voted for the road through New Brighton
> mall knew the council was going tag the project as being conditional upon the
> car parks being resealed .
Not quite sure what you mean.
>>What sort of government employees do you think might be increased in
>>numbers?
> Did I say there would be increased numbers . I said the Gov't employ hundreds
> of thousands ..
But I am asking what things the Council could spend the money on in
Brighton instead of on a slow road. That could mean some extra employees.
Here are some things which come to mind which it has:
Land agents, banks, supermarkets, hardware/gardening, acupunture/alt
medicine college (old library building), school of English,
restaurants/takeways, beauty parlour/hairdressers, new
clothing/appliances, op shops/second hand clothing, other second hand
stuff, doctors dentists dispensaries, denture repairs, jewellers, med lab,
physio, bakeries including gluten free, sports gear surfing stuff, casinos
clubs pubs, cars, tyres, repairs including rust, dress/curtain material,
electronics, nutrient/vitamin shops, paint, butchers, printing,
booksellers/post/stationery, second hand books, tattoo, WINZ, library,
video hire, greengrocers, import sort of trinket shops, insurance,
footwear, pier, playground, beach, golf course, accomodation, cricket
club, rugby, churches, fire station, school, bowls or croquet, tennis,
archery (paraplegic included), athletics, St John, dog obedience, boat
club, surf club, skateboarding, brass band, pottery group, residents
association, parks, scouts, music teachers, gymn getting further away,
swimming lessons, tree trapeze I must be missing things.
Now could a publicity agent help - maybe some dreaded survey of shoppers
on a regular basis to find changing use of facilities?
Do you think any of the above are `stupid' as you say, should be reduced
or increased beyond what the public can currenlty pay for? Anything else
to be encouraged?
Human development couselling related to community activies?
>>And since you are not a criminal you don't have problems with graphiti?
> Don't be so stupid . I don't like seeing it around the place but why involve
> the police in such a petty thing .
Other protection.
> They should employ guys like you to go around and police the graffiti
> activities. You can let them know which are culturally and architecturally
> sensitive and worthy of preservation .
The Anglican Church left a Jesus graphiti there for a long while.
>>Having a good interesting environment for them to live in, as well as good
>>nutrition and sleep away from switched on computers/cellphone towers & TV
>>translators is likely to help them heal faster, or even prevent needs for
>>operations for many. That has other economic implications.
>
> So you are blaming the illnesses children get on bad food , computers,
> cellphonetowers TVs etc are you . what percentage of illnesses are caused by
> those aforementioned factors ?
They are just some things which spoil the body's ability to repair itself.
There was much goitre before iodised salt, and scurvy before vitamin C.
>>`Can' not `must.'
> Correct. I used "can" . Go and read it again . :)
You said `don't _have_ to.'
>>What is left.
> The opposite of right .
Sarcity?
--
Brian Sandle. Remove any `shell' or other between @ and caverock to reply.
Col
>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>> On 23 Aug 2001 09:53:16 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>
>> I don't have achop list and satisfying architectural design is stuff all to do
>> with some carved item.
>
>Architectural design has to do with good shape, so does sculpture.
So do motor cars .
So does an aerobic class though the shape of a lot of the inhabitants here
(including the writer if this post) could hardly be described as good . LOL
So do motor cars.
>> The are many instances of brilliant architectural works
>> in this city that do not involve the efforts of stone carvers .
>
>Stone carving seems to be displayed in open areas in Christchurch, quite a
>bit. Ria Bancroft cast in bronze amonst other media she used.
Of that I am aware .
Have you seen the pile of gabions that were in Hagley park ($25,000 worth). ?
Can't see how that can be described as good shape or even good taste .
>Some people do not like music. Music is shape in sound. It is hard to
>ignore it in a building but you may turn your eyes away from sculpture if
>it does not please you.
Sculpture is seldom used in buildings by local architects ..
>> Yeah sure . and look at what it got New Brighton, a concrete edifice which is a
>> road to nowhere. i am not against the pier but the design and the lack of a
>> destinational feature at the end of the pier is a trifle disappointing .
>
>A tremendous amount of fund-raising was put in by the public to indicate
>desire of many people for the pier.
I even have my name, as those in my family do , on a few bricks down on the
foreshore. Where the pier misses out is in the lack of design and the lack of a
feature at the Eastern end. I pushed for a raised restaurant at the end which
would afford shelter beneath it and a helipad for search and rescue and tourist
trips from the restaurant roof.Golf carts delivering patrons to the restaurant.
Plus a facility that would allow boats to dock .. Some covered feature half way
along the pier of an entertainment nature. The building on the foreshore works
for me. Probably one of the better designs i have seen but it sure isn't
suitable for a library..
> Do you think a slow mall road would go
>ahead if it had be paid by fund raising of as wide a range of people? The
>proposed mall road seems to be compulsory rating, plus grant.
Plus a futher commitment from the building owners in the mall and increased
rates to pay for the road.
Most research seems to support the fact that the public generally do not see any
great advantage to themselves by having a road with 8 carparks on it meandering
through the mall. Personally i would sooner see some wind sheltering over the
mall. A few years ago a colleague of mine from the US was in town and he felt
enough about the wind problem to duplicate a design he had used in a similar
situation overseas. This he wished to donate to the council as a concept that
would work to eliminate most of the wind but Vicki Buck was not even interested
in even meeting with him .
>The Pier is no more a road to nowhere than a lift in a building is when
>used just for the view at the top.
Perhaps you could inform me of the buildings in Ch Ch that allow the public to
go onto the roof via a lift . TO my knowledge there are none . Most lift
machinery is by necessity located on the roof of a building and as such access
to the roof is required for maintenance . Lifts do not go to the roof of a
building . The top story is the final destination. Stairs take care of the roof
access for servicing .
>> Councils make a token effort to listen to residents and then carry on with the
>> way they were going too anyway. (a la the Square)
>
>So could we get together an agreed letter from nz.reg.canterbury.general
>and send it in? Please do not say no just because a few people might have
>a couple of names on the newsgroup.
That would be like pushing shit uphill but I am not against the concept .
Some of my previous posts here list the disasters and irrational thinking the
CCC has been involved in during the past few years . Things have not changed a
lot since the advent of the bearded buffoon being elected to power .
What do you mean a few people might have a couple of names on this newsgroup ?
Like Brian and Sandle do you mean ?
>> I wonder how many of the businesses who voted for the road through New Brighton
>> mall knew the council was going tag the project as being conditional upon the
>> car parks being resealed .
>
>Not quite sure what you mean.
Brian !!!!. You havent been reading your Pegasus post . LOL
>
>> Did I say there would be increased numbers . I said the Gov't employ hundreds
>> of thousands ..
>
>But I am asking what things the Council could spend the money on in
>Brighton instead of on a slow road. That could mean some extra employees.
>
>Here are some things which come to mind which it has:
You mean you want the council to spend ,money on some of the following ?
>Land agents, banks, supermarkets, hardware/gardening, acupunture/alt
>medicine college (old library building), school of English,
>restaurants/takeways, beauty parlour/hairdressers, new
>clothing/appliances, op shops/second hand clothing, other second hand
>stuff, doctors dentists dispensaries, denture repairs, jewellers, med lab,
>physio, bakeries including gluten free, sports gear surfing stuff, casinos
>clubs pubs, cars, tyres, repairs including rust, dress/curtain material,
>electronics, nutrient/vitamin shops, paint, butchers, printing,
>booksellers/post/stationery, second hand books, tattoo, WINZ, library,
>video hire, greengrocers, import sort of trinket shops, insurance,
>footwear, pier, playground, beach, golf course, accomodation, cricket
>club, rugby, churches, fire station, school, bowls or croquet, tennis,
>archery (paraplegic included), athletics, St John, dog obedience, boat
>club, surf club, skateboarding, brass band, pottery group, residents
>association, parks, scouts, music teachers, gymn getting further away,
>swimming lessons, tree trapeze I must be missing things.
>
>Now could a publicity agent help - maybe some dreaded survey of shoppers
>on a regular basis to find changing use of facilities?
>
>Do you think any of the above are `stupid' as you say, should be reduced
>or increased beyond what the public can currenlty pay for? Anything else
>to be encouraged?
I have sort of lost your reasoning on the above . Brighton will not have a new
clothes shop in about 3 or 4 months by the way .Farmers are moving out, dekka
have gone and Gracies is dropping menswear altogether. Rumour has it we may not
have a supermarket at all in NBrighton in the near future too . Tattoo shops,
2nd hand book shops , $2.00 shops and temporary type businesses do not raise the
image of the area . Wander down the mall at 1:00 am and see the little black
blowflies congregating there Brian waiting to antagonise and at times rob
McCormack' patrons who seem to stagger around at that hour . Note the seige
mentality of the retailers. So many windows get smashed in the mall that many
have installed steel rolladoors to protect thier investments.. The council have
been approached to help funding on installation of cameras to clean the area up
but the police I believe have not the resourse to monitor . Be a shame if they
had to work instead of imbibing at the Police bar .. :)
I definitely am not against some entrepenaureal (sp) person being employed to
promote the area overall but it may not be the answer .
>Human development couselling related to community activies?
>
>
>> Don't be so stupid . I don't like seeing it around the place but why involve
>> the police in such a petty thing .
>
>Other protection.
Try ringing the police after 8:00 pm. Call taken at Central . No staff at the3
million NB station .
>> They should employ guys like you to go around and police the graffiti
>> activities. You can let them know which are culturally and architecturally
>> sensitive and worthy of preservation .
>
>The Anglican Church left a Jesus graphiti there for a long while.
They probably never even noticed it Brian..
>> So you are blaming the illnesses children get on bad food , computers,
>> cellphonetowers TVs etc are you . what percentage of illnesses are caused by
>> those aforementioned factors ?
>
>They are just some things which spoil the body's ability to repair itself.
>There was much goitre before iodised salt, and scurvy before vitamin C.
>
>
>> Correct. I used "can" . Go and read it again . :)
>
>You said `don't _have_ to.'
which is not "must" as you said .
>
>> The opposite of right .
>
>Sarcity?
No entry found for sarcity in the dictionary.
Overall Brian New Brighton could be a wonderful place by the implementation of
some simple planning and council money. Brighton is too elongated and shops at
the West end should be bought when they come available and demolished and
Housing should be established ..
Unfortunately New brighton is orientated wrongly . Most beach side commercial
areas follow the beach line everywhere else and this does make handling the off
shore wind a lot easier but NB is just a great wind tunnnel and unless this
problem is addressed it will never progress and will slowly gravitate to a few
coffee houses, a few pubs and a few nick nack shops . There simply is not enough
money in the district to sustain the amount of retail here and there is no
incentive to shop at what must be one of the country's most unappealing hotch
potch of commercialism .
The other aspect many people do not give consideration too is any beach side
commercial setup has no potential customers in 50 percent of it's catchment area
therefore commercial ventures have to be chosen carefully to bring money and
people into an area . One is hardly going to drive 3 miles for a 20 cent seconfd
hand Wilbur Smith novel from a grotty, smelly junk shop.
I feel the facades of the shops should be modelled on the 1800's but thats only
a pipedream as the fragmentation of building styles and ownerships make this
virtually impossible . Perhaps a tram from town would be a good idea provided
there was a reason to visit brighton .
I do note the Bungy rocket has disappeared . any idea why ?
Interesting to note the interest in some of the liquor outlets are financed by
Motor Cycle gangs which may or may not be a good thing .
Brightons latest watering hole is called the "Horney Monkey" which is an
unusual name ..
5 and 6 storey developments on the foreshore make sense to me ..
I have formulated many ideas that would solve many of brighton's problems but as
in many other projects I have been involved in private enterprise have more
chance of bringing things to fruition than Council have . The Council's
track record dictates this staement is correct ..
Well this post has nicely filled in my time waiting for my son to get out of the
shower . :)
Cheers ..
Brian Sandle
Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
> So do motor cars .
> So does an aerobic class though the shape of a lot of the inhabitants here
> (including the writer if this post) could hardly be described as good . LOL
> So do motor cars.
So promote exercise setups?
> Of that I am aware .
> Have you seen the pile of gabions that were in Hagley park ($25,000 worth). ?
> Can't see how that can be described as good shape or even good taste .
I quite often feel like that about the content of this newsgroup. Don't
you think the statues help people to get their heads out of the sand?
> Sculpture is seldom used in buildings by local architects ..
http://www.mcdougall.org.nz/Archive/ria_bancroft.html
I think it ought to be more. What would you have had instead of Ria's
works?
> I even have my name, as those in my family do , on a few bricks down on the
> foreshore. Where the pier misses out is in the lack of design and the lack of a
> feature at the Eastern end. I pushed for a raised restaurant at the end which
> would afford shelter beneath it and a helipad for search and rescue and tourist
> trips from the restaurant roof.Golf carts delivering patrons to the restaurant.
> Plus a facility that would allow boats to dock .
Trips to Sumner, or out fishing?
. Some covered feature half way
> along the pier of an entertainment nature. The building on the foreshore works
> for me. Probably one of the better designs i have seen but it sure isn't
> suitable for a library..
I think we need to come to grips with the needs of ordinary living and
evolving. Some excitement to drive a market, perhaps.
> Plus a futher commitment from the building owners in the mall and increased
> rates to pay for the road.
> Most research seems to support the fact that the public generally do not see any
> great advantage to themselves by having a road with 8 carparks on it meandering
> through the mall. Personally i would sooner see some wind sheltering over the
> mall.
Need to have some sunny and sheltered places.
A few years ago a colleague of mine from the US was in town and he felt
> enough about the wind problem to duplicate a design he had used in a similar
> situation overseas. This he wished to donate to the council as a concept that
> would work to eliminate most of the wind but Vicki Buck was not even interested
> in even meeting with him .
The library building has reduced it some.
> Perhaps you could inform me of the buildings in Ch Ch that allow the public to
> go onto the roof via a lift . TO my knowledge there are none . Most lift
> machinery is by necessity located on the roof of a building and as such access
> to the roof is required for maintenance . Lifts do not go to the roof of a
> building . The top story is the final destination. Stairs take care of the roof
> access for servicing .
It's nice to get the view. When the Govt Life building (Tower now) was
built people were able to travel to an area to walk around for the view.
There is a view back from the end of the Pier, plus the feeling of being
with others feeling the mood of the sea. Not a spectacular market thing
but it is a nice little journey.
>
> That would be like pushing shit uphill but I am not against the concept .
> Some of my previous posts here list the disasters and irrational thinking the
> CCC has been involved in during the past few years . Things have not changed a
> lot since the advent of the bearded buffoon being elected to power .
Don't leave it all to him.
>
> What do you mean a few people might have a couple of names on this newsgroup ?
> Like Brian and Sandle do you mean ?
They have some style in common as do Col & Blotto.
> Brian !!!!. You havent been reading your Pegasus post . LOL
Didn't see anything about sealing. Got the 12 carparks.
I thought there might be buildings put on the Hawke St side - near the
road, as for Price Chopper, being a reason for a mall road.
> You mean you want the council to spend ,money on some of the following ?
And I missed the lawyers, pet shop/vet, at least. No I am asking if we
want to develop any of those areas we already have or introduce something
new, not necessarily commercial. WINZ is to do with living, what else
could be? The market is good for some things, but leaves gaps in human
development, I feel.
An art and sculpture area, even if it leaves Col somewhat bothered, could
be part of human communication and process of human development -
evolution of the souls.
> I have sort of lost your reasoning on the above . Brighton will not have a new
> clothes shop in about 3 or 4 months by the way .Farmers are moving out, dekka
> have gone and Gracies is dropping menswear altogether. Rumour has it we may not
> have a supermarket at all in NBrighton in the near future too .
Need to get a community feel here. There is a lot of missing houses where
the sea is, and the Rawhiti Domain is, but why should we be losing
supermarkets when the volume of traffic going along Marine Pde has over
doubled in a decade I suspect?
Tattoo shops,
> 2nd hand book shops , $2.00 shops and temporary type businesses do not raise the
> image of the area . Wander down the mall at 1:00 am and see the little black
> blowflies congregating there Brian waiting to antagonise and at times rob
> McCormack' patrons who seem to stagger around at that hour .
I had to shelter in the New Brigton Club and call the police last school
holidays at 8.45 pm. It wasn't black blowflies, just kids experimenting
with dominance.
Note the seige
> mentality of the retailers. So many windows get smashed in the mall that many
> have installed steel rolladoors to protect thier investments.. The council have
> been approached to help funding on installation of cameras to clean the area up
> but the police I believe have not the resourse to monitor . Be a shame if they
> had to work instead of imbibing at the Police bar .. :)
So is that a better thing to fund instead of the road? The road could have
traffic coming through to an all night food place which might help with a
presence?
> I definitely am not against some entrepenaureal (sp) person being employed to
> promote the area overall but it may not be the answer .
> Try ringing the police after 8:00 pm. Call taken at Central . No staff at the3
> million NB station .
It's just the communications centralised. They do come, though its
sometimes a bit slow, depending on what else is happening.
>>The Anglican Church left a Jesus graphiti there for a long while.
> They probably never even noticed it Brian..
Plants eventually covered it.
> which is not "must" as you said .
>
I said more computer terminals so people _can_ read you. I am not saying
you want to use means to get them to.
> No entry found for sarcity in the dictionary.
Scarcity, like the contributions of certain unmentionable people to this
discussion.
> Overall Brian New Brighton could be a wonderful place by the implementation of
> some simple planning and council money. Brighton is too elongated and shops at
> the West end should be bought when they come available and demolished and
> Housing should be established ..
It no use just having housing and shopping. Other things are needed for
human expression to be flowering.
> Unfortunately New brighton is orientated wrongly . Most beach side commercial
> areas follow the beach line everywhere else and this does make handling the off
> shore wind a lot easier but NB is just a great wind tunnnel and unless this
> problem is addressed it will never progress and will slowly gravitate to a few
> coffee houses, a few pubs and a few nick nack shops . There simply is not enough
> money in the district to sustain the amount of retail here and there is no
> incentive to shop at what must be one of the country's most unappealing hotch
> potch of commercialism .
Most cities have the expensive end of town at the beach.
> The other aspect many people do not give consideration too is any beach side
> commercial setup has no potential customers in 50 percent of it's catchment area
> therefore commercial ventures have to be chosen carefully to bring money and
> people into an area . One is hardly going to drive 3 miles for a 20 cent seconfd
> hand Wilbur Smith novel from a grotty, smelly junk shop.
In lieu of better socialising arrangements, going around a few second hand
book or other shops can be something in the day. Sarndra has said she
appreciates Liberty Books and I have got some goodies from there.
> I feel the facades of the shops should be modelled on the 1800's but thats only
> a pipedream as the fragmentation of building styles and ownerships make this
> virtually impossible . Perhaps a tram from town would be a good idea provided
> there was a reason to visit brighton .
Thinking of the London - Brighton sort of idea - cultural things. The
current `Mail' writes of the North New Brighton Community Centre plans. I
wonder if my idea on chch.chat a while back of drama/music with a sea back
drop will fit in.
> I do note the Bungy rocket has disappeared . any idea why ?
Thrills are not enough.
> Interesting to note the interest in some of the liquor outlets are financed by
> Motor Cycle gangs which may or may not be a good thing .
> Brightons latest watering hole is called the "Horney Monkey" which is an
> unusual name ..
The idea to promote a step backwards in evolution? The dominance set up in
the spider monkeys at Orana park is interesting, albeit modified from the
wild.
> 5 and 6 storey developments on the foreshore make sense to me ..
Do you think it is happy living above someone whose cooking smells at odd
hours are setting you off wrongly?
> I have formulated many ideas that would solve many of brighton's problems but as
> in many other projects I have been involved in private enterprise have more
> chance of bringing things to fruition than Council have . The Council's
> track record dictates this staement is correct ..
So let's try to do better. We are the Council's development material.
> Well this post has nicely filled in my time waiting for my son to get out of the
> shower . :)
You aren't too far from the beach.
Col
>
>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>
>> So do motor cars .
>> So does an aerobic class though the shape of a lot of the inhabitants here
>> (including the writer if this post) could hardly be described as good . LOL
>> So do motor cars.
>
>So promote exercise setups?
I advocate elbow bending on Friday nights Brian. You are welcome to participate
. :)
>> Of that I am aware .
>> Have you seen the pile of gabions that were in Hagley park ($25,000 worth). ?
>> Can't see how that can be described as good shape or even good taste .
>
>I quite often feel like that about the content of this newsgroup. Don't
>you think the statues help people to get their heads out of the sand?
>
>> Sculpture is seldom used in buildings by local architects ..
>
>http://www.mcdougall.org.nz/Archive/ria_bancroft.html
>
>I think it ought to be more. What would you have had instead of Ria's
>works?
She may have been a wonderful person but she's not the type i would enjoy having
a few jugs with. Quite frankly Sculpture does not excite me as much as it does
you . Conversely you are probably not enamoured with Fly and salmon fishing,
flying and gliding, electronics, 4 wheel driving, Rugby, cricket and Speights
old dark. :)
Sculptures are not that important in the scheme of things . I can't see how
sculptures contribute to anyone's well being. If you are into sculpture I won't
deny you your right though ..
>> I even have my name, as those in my family do , on a few bricks down on the
>> foreshore. Where the pier misses out is in the lack of design and the lack of a
>> feature at the Eastern end. I pushed for a raised restaurant at the end which
>> would afford shelter beneath it and a helipad for search and rescue and tourist
>> trips from the restaurant roof.Golf carts delivering patrons to the restaurant.
>> Plus a facility that would allow boats to dock .
>
>Trips to Sumner, or out fishing?
Yep. And Harbour or peninsula cruises . Paragliding. 26 k out East is a great
big deep hole full of lots of fish. Be good for tourists to catch some decent
fish . Imagine a trip to Ripapa Island or the other Lytelton features leaving
from the pier .
>. Some covered feature half way
>> along the pier of an entertainment nature. The building on the foreshore works
>> for me. Probably one of the better designs i have seen but it sure isn't
>> suitable for a library..
>
>I think we need to come to grips with the needs of ordinary living and
>evolving. Some excitement to drive a market, perhaps.
Indeed. Having a group of degenrates selling lucky dips and other crap under
Warehouse tents is not my idea of excitement. I'd like to see a professional
market every weekend whereby commercial growers can sell their produce ..
>> Plus a futher commitment from the building owners in the mall and increased
>> rates to pay for the road.
>> Most research seems to support the fact that the public generally do not see any
>> great advantage to themselves by having a road with 8 carparks on it meandering
>> through the mall. Personally i would sooner see some wind sheltering over the
>> mall.
>
>Need to have some sunny and sheltered places.
Agreed . Those trees in the Mall just create shade but they at least look ok.
There is no reason why the Mall has to be one long channel either .
> A few years ago a colleague of mine from the US was in town and he felt
>> enough about the wind problem to duplicate a design he had used in a similar
>> situation overseas. This he wished to donate to the council as a concept that
>> would work to eliminate most of the wind but Vicki Buck was not even interested
>> in even meeting with him .
>
>The library building has reduced it some.
The library building has not stopped it at all. It just dumps the wind further
down the mall.
>> Perhaps you could inform me of the buildings in Ch Ch that allow the public to
>> go onto the roof via a lift . TO my knowledge there are none . Most lift
>> machinery is by necessity located on the roof of a building and as such access
>> to the roof is required for maintenance . Lifts do not go to the roof of a
>> building . The top story is the final destination. Stairs take care of the roof
>> access for servicing .
>
>It's nice to get the view. When the Govt Life building (Tower now) was
>built people were able to travel to an area to walk around for the view.
Not now since some tosspot threatened to throw himself off it about 20 years
ago..
.
>There is a view back from the end of the Pier, plus the feeling of being
>with others feeling the mood of the sea. Not a spectacular market thing
>but it is a nice little journey.
>
Not a commercially viable thing though. Makes no money but i do agree there is
a good feeling at the end of the pier (apart from the blood and guts from the
fishermen)
It seems silly to spend millions on an edifice that has absolutely no financial
return .
>> That would be like pushing shit uphill but I am not against the concept .
>> Some of my previous posts here list the disasters and irrational thinking the
>> CCC has been involved in during the past few years . Things have not changed a
>> lot since the advent of the bearded buffoon being elected to power .
>
>Don't leave it all to him.
>
I'll try and get him voted out .. LOL
>> What do you mean a few people might have a couple of names on this newsgroup ?
>> Like Brian and Sandle do you mean ?
>
>They have some style in common as do Col & Blotto.
Bullshit . go look at some newsposts headers if you are insuation we are one
and the same .
>> Brian !!!!. You havent been reading your Pegasus post . LOL
>
>Didn't see anything about sealing. Got the 12 carparks.
'
I am referring about the carparks behind the mall in hawke st .
>I thought there might be buildings put on the Hawke St side - near the
>road, as for Price Chopper, being a reason for a mall road.
Price chopper have done no favours by blocking off access to the mall.
>> You mean you want the council to spend ,money on some of the following ?
>
>And I missed the lawyers, pet shop/vet, at least. No I am asking if we
>want to develop any of those areas we already have or introduce something
>new, not necessarily commercial. WINZ is to do with living, what else
>could be? The market is good for some things, but leaves gaps in human
>development, I feel.
Winz contributes nothing to the wellbeing of brighton as a district.
>An art and sculpture area, even if it leaves Col somewhat bothered, could
>be part of human communication and process of human development -
>evolution of the souls.
WHat a lot of fuzzy nonsense .. still you are entitled to your views ..Doesn't
bother me if there is such an area .
>> I have sort of lost your reasoning on the above . Brighton will not have a new
>> clothes shop in about 3 or 4 months by the way .Farmers are moving out, dekka
>> have gone and Gracies is dropping menswear altogether. Rumour has it we may not
>> have a supermarket at all in NBrighton in the near future too .
>
>Need to get a community feel here. There is a lot of missing houses where
>the sea is, and the Rawhiti Domain is, but why should we be losing
>supermarkets when the volume of traffic going along Marine Pde has over
>doubled in a decade I suspect?
Linwood and Shirley are taking the money off brighton residents . The price
chopper has so many prices in the till system that are dearer than the shelf
prices so many people will not shop there. The turnover is hardly enough for
them to sustain the business .
> Tattoo shops,
>> 2nd hand book shops , $2.00 shops and temporary type businesses do not raise the
>> image of the area . Wander down the mall at 1:00 am and see the little black
>> blowflies congregating there Brian waiting to antagonise and at times rob
>> McCormack' patrons who seem to stagger around at that hour .
>
>I had to shelter in the New Brigton Club and call the police last school
>holidays at 8.45 pm. It wasn't black blowflies, just kids experimenting
>with dominance.
Sounds like the same black blowflies to me . :)
Urban guerillas nevertheless. A friend of mine who is still playing rugby and is
quite fit was taken to by about 15 of these little snots and seriously hurt. The
numbers are hard to fight against ..
> Note the seige
>> mentality of the retailers. So many windows get smashed in the mall that many
>> have installed steel rolladoors to protect thier investments.. The council have
>> been approached to help funding on installation of cameras to clean the area up
>> but the police I believe have not the resourse to monitor . Be a shame if they
>> had to work instead of imbibing at the Police bar .. :)
>
>So is that a better thing to fund instead of the road? The road could have
>traffic coming through to an all night food place which might help with a
>presence?
As I said before. the main proponents of all night food places like MacD's and
BK and KFC will never operate in New brighton as half the catchment area is out
at sea and mermaids don't eat hamburgers . There are other things they can do to
make shopping an experience in Brighton than to shove a bloody road where they
are going to .
>> I definitely am not against some entrepenaureal (sp) person being employed to
>> promote the area overall but it may not be the answer .
>
>
>> Try ringing the police after 8:00 pm. Call taken at Central . No staff at the3
>> million NB station .
>
>It's just the communications centralised. They do come, though its
>sometimes a bit slow, depending on what else is happening.
3 hours is slow . That's for sure .
>>>The Anglican Church left a Jesus graphiti there for a long while.
>
>> They probably never even noticed it Brian..
>
>Plants eventually covered it.
>
>> which is not "must" as you said .
>>
>
>I said more computer terminals so people _can_ read you. I am not saying
>you want to use means to get them to.
>
>> No entry found for sarcity in the dictionary.
>
>Scarcity, like the contributions of certain unmentionable people to this
>discussion.
Ah,.. Scarcity not sarcity .. :)
>> Overall Brian New Brighton could be a wonderful place by the implementation of
>> some simple planning and council money. Brighton is too elongated and shops at
>> the West end should be bought when they come available and demolished and
>> Housing should be established ..
>
>It no use just having housing and shopping. Other things are needed for
>human expression to be flowering.
We need a tram. We need a free bus service like the Orbiter scooting around
Brighton. We need hot salt pools .. we need a reef for a decent surf. We need to
relocate many of the shops into a more compact design that will allow wind
protection. We need rezoning of sufficient land to allow for high rise
developments . We need a daily sweep of the beach like they do at Bondi..
We need an area for local artists and sculptures ( to keep Brian S happy) :)
we need full utilisation of the beach to allow for horse riding , paragliding
and other commercial ventures, helicopter rides, boat trips,
We need fun things for people to do that will attract them to Brighton.
BUT IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
>> Unfortunately New brighton is orientated wrongly . Most beach side commercial
>> areas follow the beach line everywhere else and this does make handling the off
>> shore wind a lot easier but NB is just a great wind tunnnel and unless this
>> problem is addressed it will never progress and will slowly gravitate to a few
>> coffee houses, a few pubs and a few nick nack shops . There simply is not enough
>> money in the district to sustain the amount of retail here and there is no
>> incentive to shop at what must be one of the country's most unappealing hotch
>> potch of commercialism .
>
>Most cities have the expensive end of town at the beach.
Exactly. we are an enigma here . The expensive end is an area that gets daily
sprayings of Avgas and the cheapest is the beach area. Stupid really .
>> The other aspect many people do not give consideration too is any beach side
>> commercial setup has no potential customers in 50 percent of it's catchment area
>> therefore commercial ventures have to be chosen carefully to bring money and
>> people into an area . One is hardly going to drive 3 miles for a 20 cent seconfd
>> hand Wilbur Smith novel from a grotty, smelly junk shop.
>
>In lieu of better socialising arrangements, going around a few second hand
>book or other shops can be something in the day. Sarndra has said she
>appreciates Liberty Books and I have got some goodies from there.
I'd never buy a second hand book that has resided in some lowlifes house amongst
the crap. second hand books and library books are as disease prone as cash is .
If that's all it takes to enliven your life then I must ask how many people are
of a like kind as you ? How many thousand visit 2nd hand bookshops in
Brighton..
>> I feel the facades of the shops should be modelled on the 1800's but thats only
>> a pipedream as the fragmentation of building styles and ownerships make this
>> virtually impossible . Perhaps a tram from town would be a good idea provided
>> there was a reason to visit brighton .
>
>Thinking of the London - Brighton sort of idea - cultural things. The
>current `Mail' writes of the North New Brighton Community Centre plans. I
>wonder if my idea on chch.chat a while back of drama/music with a sea back
>drop will fit in.
A decent soundshell with adequate seating would be appealing for classicl and
rock music buffs .
>> I do note the Bungy rocket has disappeared . any idea why ?
>
>Thrills are not enough.
Is that the official reason. iIheard they were not making enough money as they
felt they were in the lowest socio economic area of town .
>> Interesting to note the interest in some of the liquor outlets are financed by
>> Motor Cycle gangs which may or may not be a good thing .
>> Brightons latest watering hole is called the "Horney Monkey" which is an
>> unusual name ..
>
>The idea to promote a step backwards in evolution? The dominance set up in
>the spider monkeys at Orana park is interesting, albeit modified from the
>wild.
Well when one sees the neathandal types that inhabit the bars at the west end of
New brighton the step back has been taken :)
>> 5 and 6 storey developments on the foreshore make sense to me ..
>
>Do you think it is happy living above someone whose cooking smells at odd
>hours are setting you off wrongly?
Obviously you have lived in a basement or ground flooor. i have lived in high
rise situations and have never smelt others cooking .
>> I have formulated many ideas that would solve many of brighton's problems but as
>> in many other projects I have been involved in private enterprise have more
>> chance of bringing things to fruition than Council have . The Council's
>> track record dictates this staement is correct ..
>
>So let's try to do better. We are the Council's development material.
We are the suckers who pay excessive rates for councillors jaunts .
Did you read this mornings paper re the debacle at QEII ?
>> Well this post has nicely filled in my time waiting for my son to get out of the
>> shower . :)
>
>You aren't too far from the beach.
Hell. i would say I am far too close the beach .
What do you think of a real water playground in the estaury and a road over to
sumner..?
Snoopy
<bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>> On 23 Aug 2001 09:53:16 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>Ratepayers are offered some say in how their money is spent.
>>>
>>Yeah sure . and look at what it got New Brighton, a concrete edifice which is a
>>road to nowhere. i am not against the pier but the design and the lack of a
>>destinational feature at the end of the pier is a trifle disappointing .
>
>A tremendous amount of fund-raising was put in by the public to indicate
>desire of many people for the pier. Do you think a slow mall road would go
>ahead if it had be paid by fund raising of as wide a range of people? The
>proposed mall road seems to be compulsory rating, plus grant.
>
>The Pier is no more a road to nowhere than a lift in a building is when
>used just for the view at the top.
>
>
I'm not sure with hindsight the pier was a great end in itself. My
impression is that the group who organized the local fund raising did
so with more of an eye on the past than the future.
Just reinventing the past is often not enough for the future. People
like to be cocooned from the elements now. Witness the inner city
bus exchange. Who would want to go back to standing alongside a cold
pole in the square now?
I hate to offend the locals too much, but it has to be said. New
Brighton is actually a fairly nasty beach. It is far better than the
Brighton in England that is its namesake of course. But compared to
the alternatives in canterbury it is very exposed and bleak.
So why not cover over the pier for a start. You could still have
'outdoor balcony' sections for people who wanted the full bracing
experience.
Phase two might be to get a horizontal aqua chairlift operating for
the surfies. It would save them wasting all that energy paddling out
and they would get more runs in per day. It would get more people
out to New Brighton on those rough exposed days. Why not start a
surf school out there?
Those hot pools by the foreshore would be a good idea too, if marketed
properly. That proposal seems to have gone quiet in recent months.
is there any news?
>
>
>
>But I am asking what things the Council could spend the money on in
>Brighton instead of on a slow road. That could mean some extra employees.
>
>Here are some things which come to mind which it has:
>
>Land agents, banks, supermarkets, hardware/gardening, acupunture/alt
>medicine college (old library building), school of English,
>restaurants/takeways, beauty parlour/hairdressers, new
>clothing/appliances, op shops/second hand clothing, other second hand
>stuff, doctors dentists dispensaries, denture repairs, jewellers, med lab,
>physio, bakeries including gluten free, sports gear surfing stuff, casinos
>clubs pubs, cars, tyres, repairs including rust, dress/curtain material,
>electronics, nutrient/vitamin shops, paint, butchers, printing,
>booksellers/post/stationery, second hand books, tattoo, WINZ, library,
>video hire, greengrocers, import sort of trinket shops, insurance,
>footwear, pier, playground, beach, golf course, accomodation, cricket
>club, rugby, churches, fire station, school, bowls or croquet, tennis,
>archery (paraplegic included), athletics, St John, dog obedience, boat
>club, surf club, skateboarding, brass band, pottery group, residents
>association, parks, scouts, music teachers, gymn getting further away,
>swimming lessons, tree trapeze I must be missing things.
>
>
You want the council to take over all commercial operations in New
Brighton!? Why not get the council to buy all the residential
property in the area and be done with it. That way it would be a
fully owned council suburb. Then they could get on with centrally
planning the residents.
>
>
>Now could a publicity agent help - maybe some dreaded survey of shoppers
>on a regular basis to find changing use of facilities?
>
>
Yes publicity would help. But don't waste time promoting an area
until there is some substance to promote.
>
>
>Human development couselling related to community activies?
>
>
They could start school in professional sand art, and make use of the
local resources. I understand there is a following for such stuff in
other countries.
>
>
>The Anglican Church left a Jesus graphiti there for a long while.
>
>
Absolutely disgraceful. The Anglican church is rich enough to afford
their own banners. Having clergy going about after hours spray
painting slogans everywhere trying to boost patronage isn't on, even
if they do remove them eventually. SNOOPY
------------------------------------------------------
Attention Spammers. All UCE to me *will* be reported
http://spamcop.net
No second chances, and soon, no e-mail address for you!
-------------------------------------------------------
Siôn
"Col" <I'm...@TheBarDrunk.com> wrote
> How does a carved piece of Oamaru stone enrich your life . How does a
mural on a
> wall enrich your life .
I live on the opposite side of the world from you, but my mother lives in
New Brighton.
When I visited a few years ago (I loved Canterbury and had a fab time, by
the way) I spent some time visiting art galleries and museums, liked a lot
of what I saw, and even bought some pieces (including sculpture) to take
home. They enrich my life immeasurably, quite apart from providing a daily
reminder of friends far away.
If you don't want NZ art in NZ, may I choose what I want and bring it back
here to Wales?
I'm sure I could easily come up with a list... :-)
All the best,
Sion
Brian Sandle
> I advocate elbow bending on Friday nights Brian. You are welcome to
participate
It's kind'a'nostalgic.
What sort of vessel do you drink from?
Brian Sandle
The leaky chalist of the Canterbury Plains?
Dodo Dolphin, wondering about the divers in Wellington Harbour who were
blocking artesian leaks.
Col
A Handle ..
Brian Sandle
Hi Dodo,
Did you read what Col said on the Chalise thread?
Col wrote:
> Not for me. Looks like an exhaust for an underground dunny according to
> Peter Beaven.. I have to agree.
That's what I've been wondering about for your dolphins. How do you think
we should be emptying the Christchurch dunnies?
Here's one thing we could be considering doing, maybe for some of our
waste water.
Linkname: Waste Water Purification Using Superconduction
URL: http://www.mext.go.jp/english/news/2000/05/s000505.htm
Last Mod: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 07:20:50 GMT
size: 34 lines
Press Releases 2000/05/29
Waste Water Purification Using Superconduction
_________________________________________________________________
The National Research Institute for Metals (NRIM) has developed a
magnetic separation system to purify waste water using a
high-temperature oxide superconducting magnet, with which it has
succeeded in the high-speed separation of ?-hematite with a very
minute grain diameter from water.
The ?-hematite is a kind of magnetism acquisition material, also
called "magnetism mating material" or "magnetism scavenger." Toxic
materials can be removed from waste water by applying a magnetic force
caused by a super conducting magnet after mating ?-hematite with the
toxic metal ions in the water. The system developed demonstrates the
possibility of separating microscopic particles with very little
magnetism, previously considered to be impossible to separate, using
?-hematite.
The technology can be used in extreme conditions including high or low
temperature, acidity, alkalinity and radioactivity, and is
advantageous in resource and energy saving because liquid helium is
not required for operating the superconducting magnet.
(For further information,contact Defusion Section, Planning Office,
NRIM; phone: 0298-59-2045)
(Source:STA TODAY July 2000)
High-temperature operation oxide superconducting magnet for magnetic
separation developed satisfactorily
High-temperature operation oxide superconducting magnet for magnetic
separation developed satisfactorily
Maybe that process could be linked to solar purification. Or would one or
the other process be good enough by itself? We need some brainstorming.
The power plants are going dual-cycle.
I don't know if that would make the water good enough for drinking: the
concept of purifying our dunny outflow to drinking standard was briefly
considered in the 1998 report. I know you dolphins live in the water.
And had you considered what it would be like to help relieve the burden on
the leaky chalice of the Canterbury plains by doing some solar
purification of sea water? How would you relate to the coastal
constructions? I liked seeing how the 1998 Christchurch Wastewater report
was considering other creatures besides humans. Do we have any money in
hand from the sale of the gas and electricity distribution business?
Brian Sandle
> On 23 Aug 2001 23:26:10 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
Wander down the mall at 1:00 am and see the little black
>>> blowflies congregating there Brian waiting to antagonise and at times rob
>>> McCormack' patrons who seem to stagger around at that hour .
>>
>>I had to shelter in the New Brigton Club and call the police last school
>>holidays at 8.45 pm. It wasn't black blowflies, just kids experimenting
>>with dominance.
> Sounds like the same black blowflies to me . :)
> Urban guerillas nevertheless. A friend of mine who is still playing
> rugby and is quite fit was taken to by about 15 of these little snots
> and seriously hurt. The numbers are hard to fight against ..
I wouldn't have thought them noticeably dark.
Is it coincidence that New Brighton has become sadly unsafe since the
easly availability of alcohol to 18 year-olds to pass it down to younger
ones?
Dodo
Greg
>
> Is it coincidence that New Brighton has become sadly unsafe since the
> easly availability of alcohol to 18 year-olds to pass it down to younger
> ones?
>
> Dodo
YES .. we should have age limits on alcohol supply .. and we should have
them on cannabis supply .. shame our govt lets unlicensed gangs do our
cannabis selling ...
Unknown
<bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> said:
>
>Is it coincidence that New Brighton has become sadly unsafe since the
>easly availability of alcohol to 18 year-olds to pass it down to younger
>ones?
Younger ones were also getting their hands on booze when the drinking
age was 21.
-----------------
You can be up to your boobies in white satin, with gardenias in your hair and no sugar cane for miles,
but you can still be working on a plantation.
--Billie Holliday
Brian Sandle
> On 25 Aug 2001 16:23:05 GMT, Brian Sandle
> <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> said:
>>
>>Is it coincidence that New Brighton has become sadly unsafe since the
>>easly availability of alcohol to 18 year-olds to pass it down to younger
>>ones?
> Younger ones were also getting their hands on booze when the drinking
> age was 21.
And sometimes after rugby on Saturday we would have letter boxes damaged.
What will you blame the situation on now? Real life being more exciting
than computer games that have taught dominance? But the computer games
have been around for a long time.
I would say it is a combination of things, missing parents at the new all
hours pubs and casinos, working mums while the kids grew for the last 10
years, but especially in the last couple of years enough more kids getting
alcohol so that a critical reaction occurs. Then enough together lose
inhibitions to let their dominance games spill over into their behaviour
to other humans in pack form.
It was only two after me. They had been riding their bikes around a car
park as I walked past about 8.35 pm which I have done many times. Next
they were calling out strange things. I was carefully walking on and I
started to be pelted with stones. I was going to the supermarket and as
they promised they were there waiting for me when I came out, they were
saying they would follow me home and rob me. While I waited in a club for
the police they circled on their bikes. They had also in a threatening
manner circled another person I spoke to till he got back into his car.
A busker who plays in Christchurch Square said single people walking there
are also at risk from groups of youths.
Can you offer me any solace?
E. Scrooge
news:99877773...@cobalt.caverock.co.nz...
That's an awful experience for you to be victimised like that, Brian. One
has to understand the real world to fully comprehend just what you went
through.
If given the chance, there's no telling just how far those punks would've
gone while tormenting you. A much older person, might not have been so
lucky just from the stress of it alone. It would more than likely leave a
lot of them badly shaken over it.
It's amazing how people in the street know what is happening, yet very
little is done about it.
Did the police do much about it for you, Brian?
Just because "some" younger ones have always been able to get their hands on
alcohol over the years, doesn't mean to say that the situation hasn't gotten
a lot worse. Especially with the lowering of the drinking age. I'm sure
that the police could confirm that. It seems, Brian, that there are people
that don't give a stuff what "some" young people get up to, just as long as
it doesn't personally involve them.
E. Scrooge
Col
Yep. They don't disturb the graves in Bromley Cemetry .
E. Scrooge
news:rzCIOxYOgjwjXJ4PEH49=hH4...@4ax.com...
Is that where the young bastards that are caught end up?
LOL
E. Scrooge
Unknown
<bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> said:
>What will you blame the situation on now? Real life being more exciting
>than computer games that have taught dominance? But the computer games
>have been around for a long time.
>
>I would say it is a combination of things, missing parents at the new all
>hours pubs and casinos, working mums while the kids grew for the last 10
>years, but especially in the last couple of years enough more kids getting
>alcohol so that a critical reaction occurs. Then enough together lose
>inhibitions to let their dominance games spill over into their behaviour
>to other humans in pack form.
I supported lowering of the drinking age, and I still think it was the
right thing to do, for the sake of consistency with respect to the
rights of 18-year olds. We expect 18 year olds to act like adults and
carry adult responsibilities, so I think allowing them access to
alcohol is a part of that.
I acknowledge that there are some young people who have trouble
handling alcohol, just as there are some 30-year olds and 40-year olds
with the same problem. Why should responsible young people (who I
think are the majority) have their rights curtailed because some
others can't handle their alcohol?
What do I blame the situation on? I think I agree with you in that
it's the result of a combination of things. I think strong families
are key, communication within the family is important, and I think
it's vital for people to remind their children and others that they're
worth something. I honestly think people who're secure in themselves
are less likely to develop problems like this.
I accept that teenagers are sometimes under immense peer pressure to
conform, but what separates teenagers who can act sensibly from most
of the ones who fall into bad behaviour?
>It was only two after me. They had been riding their bikes around a car
>park as I walked past about 8.35 pm which I have done many times. Next
>they were calling out strange things. I was carefully walking on and I
>started to be pelted with stones. I was going to the supermarket and as
>they promised they were there waiting for me when I came out, they were
>saying they would follow me home and rob me. While I waited in a club for
>the police they circled on their bikes. They had also in a threatening
>manner circled another person I spoke to till he got back into his car.
>
I'm sorry you had to experience something like this. I'm not sure what
alcohol has to do with this, since you didn't mention whether they
were drunk or not.. but I'll tell you this: people don't need booze to
act like arseholes.
>
>Can you offer me any solace?
>
Something to make you believe that nothing bad will ever happen to
you, me or anyone else?
Sadly, no.
Col
Nope. That's where brian and i will probably end up . At least then we will not
be threatened by these liltte black blowflies flexing their muscles in the
district. They are ages from 8 to about 16 and hunt in packs . The police are
reluctant to use any resources against them. Call to Brighton sometime after
10:00 pm Scroogie BUT do not come alone ..
Brian Sandle
> On 25 Aug 2001 22:15:59 GMT, Brian Sandle
> <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> said:
> I supported lowering of the drinking age, and I still think it was the
> right thing to do, for the sake of consistency with respect to the
> rights of 18-year olds. We expect 18 year olds to act like adults and
> carry adult responsibilities, so I think allowing them access to
> alcohol is a part of that.
At what cost?
> I acknowledge that there are some young people who have trouble
> handling alcohol, just as there are some 30-year olds and 40-year olds
> with the same problem.
Yes, and I ring the police a bit. Last summer a big guy alone was going
along the street about 10.30 pm kicking and breaking garage doors and car
windows. The police arrived by the time he was 1/4 mile further along.
They are getting better at coming with this new government. But a couple
of days ago the woman whose car was broken said it had just happened
again.
Why should responsible young people (who I
> think are the majority) have their rights curtailed because some
> others can't handle their alcohol?
Back at you with this: the following evening after the event I stopped my
car to see if I could find a stone thrown at me the previous evening. Just
out of sight in a second adjacent car park by a toilet block and
playground I could hear anxious sounds from several girls' voices. Quite a
number of children were there including, as I thought I identified, the
more verbal boy from the previous evening. With his dominance I would say
that the other children would have had difficulty exercising their
freedoms.
> What do I blame the situation on? I think I agree with you in that
> it's the result of a combination of things. I think strong families
> are key, communication within the family is important, and I think
> it's vital for people to remind their children and others that they're
> worth something. I honestly think people who're secure in themselves
> are less likely to develop problems like this.
> I accept that teenagers are sometimes under immense peer pressure to
> conform, but what separates teenagers who can act sensibly from most
> of the ones who fall into bad behaviour?
The majority of people can get carried alonf into nonsense when alcohol is
swilling.
> I'm sorry you had to experience something like this. I'm not sure what
> alcohol has to do with this, since you didn't mention whether they
> were drunk or not.. but I'll tell you this: people don't need booze to
> act like arseholes.
They were not unsteady the way were several youngsters going past my
house last night while I was writing about this.
What things reduce the inhibitions enough that you can throw stones at a
stranger who has not interacted with you out of the ordinary?
>>
>>Can you offer me any solace?
>>
> Something to make you believe that nothing bad will ever happen to
> you, me or anyone else?
> Sadly, no.
Are you trying to prepare me for worse that there is room for your
`freedom' principles. Have you shares in the breweries?
So I no longer go for evening walks in the school holidays, or not at all?
To answer Scrooge the police communciations said police would be on the
way. I waited in the Club for 20 or more minutes till one came. The very
supportive club doorman meantime watched the boys moving round the area on
their bikes, and circling the building, waiting for me. By the time the
police car came the boys had gone off. The police took me home.
I have been used to interacting with groups of boys in the past. I thought
I might negotiate these ones rather than be forced to ring a taxi from the
supermarket. As they had said they would be they were still there when I
came out, they had been hiding behind a large rubbish container, and
fortunately the club was there for refuge when they threatened to rob me.
They were probably 13 to 14 years old. Could have been more.
Unknown
<bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> said:
>> I supported lowering of the drinking age, and I still think it was the
>> right thing to do, for the sake of consistency with respect to the
>> rights of 18-year olds. We expect 18 year olds to act like adults and
>> carry adult responsibilities, so I think allowing them access to
>> alcohol is a part of that.
>
>At what cost?
We allow them to smoke, we allow them to have sex, we allow them to
get married, we allow them to join the army and kill people if need
be, we allow them to vote and pay taxes. Tell me why people who
adequately handle these responsibilites shouldn't be allowed to drink?
Should we also increase the driving age because some young people
can't handle the freedom of driving and have accidents? What about
sex, since some teenagers get pregnant and/or contract STDs?
Brian, not everyone is responsible- there will always be people who
don't behave in a sensible manner. You may be ok with having your
rights restricted because some other people can't handle themselves,
but I'm not.
People don't just suddenly become sensible when they ht 18, I know,
but for the most part we use that age as a sign of adulthood. Again,
if we expect them to handle the responsibilites and obligations
associated with being an adult, let's also give them the privileges of
being an adult.
>
> Why should responsible young people (who I
>> think are the majority) have their rights curtailed because some
>> others can't handle their alcohol?
>
>Back at you with this: the following evening after the event I stopped my
>car to see if I could find a stone thrown at me the previous evening. Just
>out of sight in a second adjacent car park by a toilet block and
>playground I could hear anxious sounds from several girls' voices. Quite a
>number of children were there including, as I thought I identified, the
>more verbal boy from the previous evening. With his dominance I would say
>that the other children would have had difficulty exercising their
>freedoms.
Boy? I assume he was under 18, then; and drunk? He shouldn't have had
access to alcohol in the first place, and whoever gave it to him
should be prosecuted.
Also, you said 'evening'- what time in the evening? How old were these
other children? I ask all this because this time it was a boy who was
bullying them, next time it could be some sort of sicko they have to
deal with.
>They were not unsteady the way were several youngsters going past my
>house last night while I was writing about this.
>
>What things reduce the inhibitions enough that you can throw stones at a
>stranger who has not interacted with you out of the ordinary?
Indifference, Brian. Not giving a shit about other people and thinking
you're invincible, wanting to cause pain. Sensing a weakness in
someone and taking advantage of it, because someone else is taking
advantage of your weakenss, somewhere else. It doesn't have to be
about alcohol. I think it goes way deeper than that.
Chris Johnson
>What do I blame the situation on? I think I agree with you in that
>it's the result of a combination of things. I think strong families
>are key, communication within the family is important, and I think
>it's vital for people to remind their children and others that they're
>worth something. I honestly think people who're secure in themselves
>are less likely to develop problems like this.
You just reminded me of something I read on the Netscape News some time ago,
featuring an interview with Mr T.
He believed there should be more "Mummy's Boys", admitting he was one
himself. Why did he suggest that?
He said that any boys doing the things in the world today (robbery, murder,
rape, harrassment, etc) are showing they have no respect for their
mothers... whereas the Mummy's Boys of the world are brought up differently.
I can guess that relates to the family issues a lot suffer in the current
age. We have identified it... now the first thing we can do is try to stop
it spreading by encouraging more family involvement. I know what it's like
to be bogged in a business (I work from home) but I do my part by allocating
time when my step-daughter is home to talk, help with homework, just bonding
in general. Even just an hour or two is better than what some kids get.
It won't necessarily stop kids buckling to peer pressure (I don't know what
will) but I believe it will contribute to minimising the problems that could
come later as they grow up.
What do you think?
(This is certainly a much more stimulating NG to some of the others I've
found)
All the best,
Chris Johnson
Free Contest -- Win a Prize
http://www.iinet.net.au/~tracyl/
ICQ# 89223740
E. Scrooge
That's poor that you had to wait so long for the police to arrive.
It's all very well for some to worry about the rights of all young people,
when it's just a good proportion of them that are getting out of hand. Also
it's not just older people that are under threat from these idiots, but
other younger people as well, and sometimes very young people.
When it comes to the drinking age, one has to try to keep things in
perspective. Since a large proportion of young drinkers are causing
problems. What's more important? The rights of young people being able to
drink, or the right for everyone to live in peace (young and old) from a
large group of idiots that can't handle alcohol? Abuse and violence can
only have gotten worse among a proportion of young people with the lowering
of the drinking age. Some don't seem to think that matters, just as long as
it doesn't happen to them.
There are times when some issues are more important and far outweigh others.
There are even some young people that would say that the way things are now
is not good for anyone at all.
When some young idiots burnt down a new school gymnasium. Instead of their
rights, what about the rights of the rest of the kids at the school which
were affected by the loss of their new gymnasium? Just to make the point
that some young people do affect other young people as well as others.
Before someone says that it happens at all ages. It just doesn't happen to
the same degree. When was the last time that a gang of geriatrics with
their walkers and wheelchairs went about terrorising other people in the
Chch Square?
When it comes to freedom of rights, one also has to be sensible and
realistic about it.
E. Scrooge
Tim Scrivens
Frigging weird - history repeats (and historians repeat each other).
When I was at 'Varsity in Chch in '84, a friend and I got set on by a whole
pack of little bastards of age about 12-14 - there were frigging HEAPS of
them (OK, about 10). Fortunately, we were inside the "Blue Magpie" burger
bar at the time (on Riccarton Rd, at the Ilam end), so I just set my back to
the wall and kept swinging. Even all this time later, I still remember the
complete sense of disbelief I had about it - particularly seeing as the
gentleman I had strolled to the burger bar with was 6'4" and weighed 23
stone.
Final score - burger bar called the cops, and I and four of our opponents
had to visit casualty - I got bottled (with a frigging MILK bottle! - 8
stiches), and they were suffering from the effects of being 12 years old and
having 23 stone of Hokitika's finest land on them.
In that case, it wasn't alcohol - it was glue.
Perhaps they need more to do in Chch - hard labour would be favourite.
Bobs
Tim Scrivens wrote:
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sorry, but that's a hilarious read.
That's the image Christchurch has in Auckland. Full of freaky thugs. And that's
just the rugby team.
--
"If you have sex with your clone, are you gay, or masturbating?" - FHM
Unknown
<e.sc...@zfree.co.nx (z replaces x)> said:
>It's all very well for some to worry about the rights of all young people,
>when it's just a good proportion of them that are getting out of hand.
~~~~~~~~~~~
> Since a large proportion of young drinkers are causing problems
~~~~
Stats?
E. Scrooge
news:em%h7.2339$Cc1.4...@news.xtra.co.nz...
That's bloody shocking. When it comes down to ones survival, who gives a
stuff about the little bastards backgrounds while worrying about your own
safety?
It was probably lucky that you weren't alone.
E. Scrooge
Unknown
<cjh...@netscape.net> said:
>
>You just reminded me of something I read on the Netscape News some time ago,
>featuring an interview with Mr T.
>
>He believed there should be more "Mummy's Boys", admitting he was one
>himself. Why did he suggest that?
>
>He said that any boys doing the things in the world today (robbery, murder,
>rape, harrassment, etc) are showing they have no respect for their
>mothers... whereas the Mummy's Boys of the world are brought up differently.
>
>I can guess that relates to the family issues a lot suffer in the current
>age. We have identified it... now the first thing we can do is try to stop
>it spreading by encouraging more family involvement. I know what it's like
>to be bogged in a business (I work from home) but I do my part by allocating
>time when my step-daughter is home to talk, help with homework, just bonding
>in general. Even just an hour or two is better than what some kids get.
>
>
>What do you think?
I'm not a parent, but from watching others do their thing, I can tell
that it's a tough, and sometimes thankless job. Everything I say here
are *my* beliefs only:
Kids are indivuals, just like adults- some have the emotional make-up
which will make it easier for them to fall harder into bad behaviour,
than others. Sometimes this will happen even if the child has the
benefit of having attentive, loving and communicative parents,
unfortunately.
I agree with what you said:
>It won't necessarily stop kids buckling to peer pressure (I don't know what
>will) but I believe it will contribute to minimising the problems that could
>come later as they grow up.
Sometimes teenagers have it tough. On the one hand they're under
pressure from their parents to behave in a certain way (usually for
their own good) and on the other hand they're under pressure from
their peers to behave in an entirely different way.
Positive communication between parents and children is so important,
it helps kids to open up to their parents and allows parents to help
their kids.
It equips them with the knowledge that it's not the end of the world
if you don't conform to some stupid sort of behaviour, and that it's
o.k to say "no" to your friends or people you're impressed by.
Without the benefit of communication, it just becomes that much harder
for them, I think. Sadly, lack of communication in a family is usually
just one indication that things aren't right. Some parents don't show
affection, and some never encourage their children or spend time with
them. In such cases, why should kids even bother to behave 'properly'?
All that said, I think most parents do a great job.. there are many
loving and attentive parents out there, thankfully... and many
confident and happy kids.
E. Scrooge
"T A R T" <invi...@eexxttrraa.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3b8887bf...@news.xtra.co.nz...
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:49:51 +1200, "E. Scrooge"
> <e.sc...@zfree.co.nx (z replaces x)> said:
>
>
> >It's all very well for some to worry about the rights of all young
people,
> >when it's just a good proportion of them that are getting out of hand.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> > Since a large proportion of young drinkers are causing problems
> ~~~~
>
> Stats?
Research evidence suggests that the younger the age when drinking begins,
and the greater the amount of drinking done in early years, the greater the
amount of alcohol-related problems later on. 5
Young people experience the highest rate of health and social problems
associated with alcohol. Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of
deaths for teenagers. New Zealand has one of the highest rate of road deaths
per 100,000 population among Western motorised countries for those aged
15-24 years. 6
Overseas Research
In the early 1970's 28 states in North America lowered the drinking age to
18 but after significant increases in road crashes and alcohol-related
problems, the age was raised to 21 in all states by the mid 1980s. 7
The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that
changing the minimum drinking age laws to 21 years have saved 15,667 lives
since 1975. 8
The US General Office of Accounting (GAO) concluded that there was solid
scientific evidence that increasing the minimum age reduced the number of
alcohol involved traffic crashes for young people. Reports showed reductions
of up to 28% in alcohol-related traffic crashes following the increase in
age. 9
Research in the United States has found that there was a lower level of
alcohol consumption over the long term (into the early 20s) among young
people in North America after the legal age limit had been raised by at
least one year. 10
Violent crime linked to alcohol rose to 350,700 offences in England and
Wales in 1997. The Commissioner for Metropolitan Police, Sir Paul Condon and
the Home Office Chief criminologist have linked the increase in violence to
greater access to alcohol through the relative affluence of young people,
their ability to drink in a club culture and the marketing of extra strong
drinks aimed at young people. 11
In Australia, when the drinking age was lowered from 21 to 18 years, there
were significant increases in the juvenile crime rates, traffic deaths and
injuries, and non-traffic hospital admissions. A 1986 study found the number
of 17-20 year olds killed in road accidents in South Australia increased by
75 percent when the state cut its drinking age from 21 to 20. 12
In Canada when the minimum drinking age was lowered there was a significant
increase in alcohol-related youth problems. In Alberta, for example, when
the minimum drinking age was lowered there was a 100% increase in crash
fatalities among youthful drivers with a blood alcohol level of 80 mg or
more.
"Since the drinking age was lowered to 18 in 1999, the number of intoxicated
teens seeking help at Christchurch Hospital's emergency department has
doubled."
"Boozing teens force law rethink"
http://www.nzdf.org.nz/update/messages/1544.htm
<http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/print/0,1103,875361a1910,FF.html>
http://www.jointogether.org/plugin.jtml?siteID=PAVNET&p=1&Tab=News&Object_ID
=544688
E. Scrooge
E. Scrooge
There's probably no telling how some kids are going to end up. But it must
be a lot harder for the kids that have parents that are hardly ever around.
It's a bad situation that there are kids out there even within some
families, that really have no one to guide them along.
It would be good to know just how many kids (if any) go through the welfare
system, which then later go onto a life of crime. It would be better all
round if kids that need help could actually get it at an early age, before
things get a lot worse for them later on.
E. Scrooge
Unknown
Helen Clark wants the Ministry of Justice to look at enforcement
measures and retailers' compliance with the Sale of Liquor Act so
Parliament can consider how best to toughen the law.
We need to remind retailers of their responsibilities under the act to
ensure they are not selling to underage people."
(Are you telling me *this* is the result of lowering the drinking
age):
Children as young as 10 have been treated when they lapsed into coma
after drinking buckets of alcohol.
<..>
"Everyone's concerned about minors binge drinking, but it's more of a
social problem. Kids have access to alcohol through adults and
parents."
<..>
He said outlets continued to be strict about requesting ID from
teenagers. There was strong demand for the association's 18-plus
cards, which are used by teenagers as identification if they do not
hold driver's licences.
"The young people wouldn't paying $20 for a card if they did need one.
That suggests that IDs are still being asked for."
Since the drinking was lowered 18 in December 1999, 22,000 cards have
been sold.
>
><http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/print/0,1103,875361a1910,FF.html>
>
>
>http://www.jointogether.org/plugin.jtml?siteID=PAVNET&p=1&Tab=News&Object_ID
>=544688
>
"New Zealand has a major problem with teenage binge drinking," said
Justice Minister Phil Goff. "What we need to do is clarify the extent
to which trends have altered as a result of the lowering of the
drinking age [in 1999]. It's not a new problem, but nor have I seen
any evidence that the situation is improving."
and:
Police spokesman Sgt. Bob Burns confirmed that young adults buying
alcohol for underage friends and siblings, and parents supplying
alcohol to their teenage children, are major problems.
E. Scrooge
> age):
You can read what you want into it.
There's always been problems with some young people drinking. With the age
being lowered it's also increased the problems.
18 year olds had no trouble getting into bars when the age limit was 20,
anyway. But now that it's been lowered to 18, 16 year olds are also now
getting in.
The way it was with the age at 20 officially, but being flexible about it
with some 18 year olds still getting in was probably the best way to leave
it. I'm sure you had no trouble getting in when you were 18.
All that the new law has done is make it easier for people that are a lot
younger than that to now get in.
E. Scrooge
Mungbean
Brian Sandle wrote:
>
>
>
> A busker who plays in Christchurch Square said single people walking there
> are also at risk from groups of youths.
>
> Can you offer me any solace?
>
Nobody gets out alive.
> --
> Brian Sandle. Remove any `shell' or other between @ and caverock to reply.
--
"Suicidal Twin Kills Sister By Mistake!"
Megan Pledger
> I supported lowering of the drinking age, and I still think it was the
> right thing to do, for the sake of consistency with respect to the
> rights of 18-year olds. We expect 18 year olds to act like adults and
> carry adult responsibilities, so I think allowing them access to
> alcohol is a part of that.
The problem with giving 18 year olds legal access is that they are still
at school. This means they are hanging out with 18/17 year olds and
possibly younger - girlfriends, mixed aged school teams. It means that
alcohol can be legally bought by the older one and supplied to the
younger ones. There's a growing expectation that alcohol *must* be
available at teenage social occassions.
What they should have done is make it anyone who is 18 on Feb 1 can have
access. If you turn 18 after Feb 2 then not till the next year.
There's very few students at school you turn 18 before Feb 1 - they
would have been in the previous year group.
M.
Peter Metcalfe
> The problem with giving 18 year olds legal access is that they are still
> at school.
Huh? When I was 18, I wasn't at school. And I wasn't
an early leaver either.
> What they should have done is make it anyone who is 18 on Feb 1 can have
> access.
Ah, that's okay then.
--Peter Metcalfe
E. Scrooge
news:3B88C27A...@ihug.co.nz...
18 year olds never had any trouble getting into bars before, anyway. Now we
have a lot more and even younger people getting in than ever before.
E. Scrooge
Brian Sandle
Estuary on Tue Aug 28 at 6.30 pm at the Mount Pleasant Community Centre.
The Christchurch wastewater flows into it, the design flow being 200,000
cubic metres per day in a 1998 publication.
Discussion is going on as to whether this should continue, maybe with a
more purified outflow, that I want to find out, or whether something like
a 3 Km pipeline should take it out to sea. Whether that would be less
purified I should like to know, too.
Some further questions:
How much energy is being lost by diluting the sea with the non-saline
wastewater (when salt is dissolved in water it cools it)?
How much of the waste water, which comes from artesian source, would have
gone into the estuary through the rivers, rather than through the water
table to the sea, thereby depleting the estuary?
I expect that last amount not to be too great. But for the previous one is
there anything that can be saved from the non-saline wastewater to
seawater mixing process?
Now -
Linkname: Limits on NNWW
URL: http://www.itsyourenvironment.net/alliance/trlimit.html
Last Mod: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 02:52:47 GMT
size: 330 lines
[...]
In an even more ambitious project, engineers from MIT in cooperation
w/ Terry Spragg of Manhattan Beach, California have developed a
polypropylene bladder system to transport drinking water. Each
polypropylene bag will measure 50 x 500 feet and will be coupled
together with up to 50 bags to produce a system capable of ocean
transport of up to 225 million gallons per shipment. Transported by
4,500-hp ocean tug, the bags will float just above the surface. The
bags can be separated and transshipped in their segmented versions to
nearly any port in the world. "He (Spragg) is currently in discussions
with Cape May, New Jersey... Turkey; and countries in the middle east
for his services." Mr. Spragg assures the interviewer, "I believe
definitely that you will trade water in the future just like you trade
oil today. People are going to be shipping water all over the world."
(Professional Mariner magazine, June, '97)
[...]
Should any plans we make for Chch wastewater take into account what its
value may be half way through the life time of the planned disposal
process?
Could an economic exercise be done about piping wastewater into bladders
and shipping them, perhaps to places in New Zealand where the sun's energy
is greater in the winter, or even further afield? Would there be a
probability calculation for benefits with probable climatery changes?
It seems that one of those ambitious shipments would be nearly a weeks
outflow at the 1998 estimation.
Should we be trying to buy some time now to wait to get a better
estimation of what may happen with future climate and or technology?
Would there be a gain from hiring more expensive ship transport for a
waiting period?
Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
> Dodo Dolphin <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>> Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>> Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>>>> I advocate elbow bending on Friday nights Brian. You are welcome to
>>> participate
>>> It's kind'a'nostalgic.
>>> What sort of vessel do you drink from?
>> The leaky chalist of the Canterbury Plains?
>> Dodo Dolphin, wondering about the divers in Wellington Harbour who were
>> blocking artesian leaks.
> Hi Dodo,
> Did you read what Col said on the Chalise thread?
> Col wrote:
>
>> Not for me. Looks like an exhaust for an underground dunny according to
>> Peter Beaven.. I have to agree.
> That's what I've been wondering about for your dolphins. How do you think
> we should be emptying the Christchurch dunnies?
> Here's one thing we could be considering doing, maybe for some of our
> waste water.
> Linkname: Waste Water Purification Using Superconduction
> URL: http://www.mext.go.jp/english/news/2000/05/s000505.htm
> Last Mod: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 07:20:50 GMT
> size: 34 lines
> Press Releases 2000/05/29
> Waste Water Purification Using Superconduction
> _________________________________________________________________
> The National Research Institute for Metals (NRIM) has developed a
> magnetic separation system to purify waste water using a
> high-temperature oxide superconducting magnet, with which it has
> succeeded in the high-speed separation of ?-hematite with a very
> minute grain diameter from water.
> The ?-hematite is a kind of magnetism acquisition material, also
> called "magnetism mating material" or "magnetism scavenger." Toxic
> materials can be removed from waste water by applying a magnetic force
> caused by a super conducting magnet after mating ?-hematite with the
> toxic metal ions in the water. The system developed demonstrates the
> possibility of separating microscopic particles with very little
> magnetism, previously considered to be impossible to separate, using
> ?-hematite.
> The technology can be used in extreme conditions including high or low
> temperature, acidity, alkalinity and radioactivity, and is
> advantageous in resource and energy saving because liquid helium is
> not required for operating the superconducting magnet.
> (For further information,contact Defusion Section, Planning Office,
> NRIM; phone: 0298-59-2045)
> (Source:STA TODAY July 2000)
> High-temperature operation oxide superconducting magnet for magnetic
> separation developed satisfactorily
> High-temperature operation oxide superconducting magnet for magnetic
> separation developed satisfactorily
> Maybe that process could be linked to solar purification. Or would one or
> the other process be good enough by itself? We need some brainstorming.
> The power plants are going dual-cycle.
> I don't know if that would make the water good enough for drinking: the
> concept of purifying our dunny outflow to drinking standard was briefly
> considered in the 1998 report. I know you dolphins live in the water.
> And had you considered what it would be like to help relieve the burden on
> the leaky chalice of the Canterbury plains by doing some solar
> purification of sea water? How would you relate to the coastal
> constructions? I liked seeing how the 1998 Christchurch Wastewater report
> was considering other creatures besides humans. Do we have any money in
> hand from the sale of the gas and electricity distribution business?
Jason Rumney
> There's a growing expectation that alcohol *must* be available at
> teenage social occassions.
Rubbish. That expectation was already WELL ENTRENCHED when I was a
teenager in the 1980's.
Brian Sandle
> On 26 Aug 2001 00:34:09 GMT, Brian Sandle
> <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> said:
>>> I supported lowering of the drinking age, and I still think it was the
>>> right thing to do, for the sake of consistency with respect to the
>>> rights of 18-year olds. We expect 18 year olds to act like adults and
>>> carry adult responsibilities, so I think allowing them access to
>>> alcohol is a part of that.
>>
>>At what cost?
So I presume from what you follow up with that you believe the freedom to
buy alcohol at age 18 should be at any cost.
> We allow them to smoke, we allow them to have sex, we allow them to
> get married, we allow them to join the army and kill people if need
> be, we allow them to vote and pay taxes. Tell me why people who
> adequately handle these responsibilites shouldn't be allowed to drink?
If there is a cost which is prohibitive to society.
> Should we also increase the driving age because some young people
> can't handle the freedom of driving and have accidents?
I certainly think so under the current conditions where they have both a
driver's licence and a drink buyer's licence.
What about
> sex, since some teenagers get pregnant and/or contract STDs?
It is good to stop troubles, but hard to withhold the goods in that
situation, if you think that that would stop the trouble.
> Brian, not everyone is responsible- there will always be people who
> don't behave in a sensible manner. You may be ok with having your
> rights restricted because some other people can't handle themselves,
> but I'm not.
Therefore you should pay a contribution to my suffering. Find an
alternative to my evening exercise.
> People don't just suddenly become sensible when they ht 18, I know,
> but for the most part we use that age as a sign of adulthood. Again,
> if we expect them to handle the responsibilites and obligations
> associated with being an adult, let's also give them the privileges of
> being an adult.
And then pay for it. Hand over please, if it is so important to you. Your
money where your mouth is, thanks.
From the rest of your reply I don't think you read to the end of my
article.
Uncle Al
>
> There is a workshop on the Christchurch, New Zealand, Heathcote Avon
> Estuary on Tue Aug 28 at 6.30 pm at the Mount Pleasant Community Centre.
>
> The Christchurch wastewater flows into it, the design flow being 200,000
> cubic metres per day in a 1998 publication.
[snip]
Christchurch? If you have hitched your wagon to God, let God
solve your problems. The rest of us believe in thermodynamics
and engineering, so our toilets work. Irvine, California has a
block of streets named after useful famous folk (DuPont, Teller,
Michelson), and more named after famous imperialist fascists
(John Wayne airport is at Douglas and MacArthur). We don't
whine. We don't have to whine. We conquer, then hot tub with
our sexy ladies.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
Matthew Poole
they lowered the drinking age to 18.
Even when I was 15-16, long before we thought that the drinking age
would be lowered, it was the usual thing for there to be parties at
which a minimum of two-thirds of the attendees were at least legless and
frequently comatose by the end of the night.
It's too late for people to try and haul out the old chestnut that
lowering the drinking age is promoting a culture of binge drinking -
that culture has been part of growing up in New Zealand for at least as
long as I've been alive. All it takes is for someone to have an older
sibling or friend who's at university, because the stereotypical view of
students as heavy drinkers is remarkably accurate, and you're already
being exposed to the notion that being pissed as a newt is normal,
desireable, and expected.
--
Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
"Veni, vidi, velcro...
I came, I saw, I stuck around"
My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
ThErEaLjAmEs
wrote:
>Brian Sandle wrote:
>>
>> There is a workshop on the Christchurch, New Zealand, Heathcote Avon
>> Estuary on Tue Aug 28 at 6.30 pm at the Mount Pleasant Community Centre.
>>
>> The Christchurch wastewater flows into it, the design flow being 200,000
>> cubic metres per day in a 1998 publication.
>
>[snip]
>
>Christchurch? If you have hitched your wagon to God, let God
>solve your problems. The rest of us believe in thermodynamics
>and engineering, so our toilets work. Irvine, California has a
>block of streets named after useful famous folk (DuPont, Teller,
>Michelson), and more named after famous imperialist fascists
>(John Wayne airport is at Douglas and MacArthur). We don't
>whine. We don't have to whine. We conquer, then hot tub with
>our sexy ladies.
Well then I hope your *sexy ladies* have used your *working toilets*
before they meet you in your hot tubs, or you might just end up with
more waste water than your hot tubs can contain......LMAOOOO
JK
Brian Sandle
I have followed up on sci.environment.waste with what I have been able to
find on prices of towable storage bladders for oil. Hopefully the larger
ones for water, without the pollution risk if they rupture, would be a lot
cheaper.
I have aksed before about whether it is really necessary to use clean
water to transport faecal material and industrial waste.
In the `Vietnamese Toilet' (Appropriate Technology Journal in Engineering
Library at Canterbury) the urine, not so infectious, can go onto land. The
faeces then is more manageable.
Will we come to a stage of water shortage where cost will entice us to do
separation of faeces and urine at source? What happens to baby's nappies
these days?
E. Scrooge
news:3b89...@news.attica.net.nz...
While it's always gone on to some degree. The change in the law has now
made it a lot more acceptable for people to be drinking at a very young age.
An increase in problems is bound to result from the fact that a lot more
young people are now drinking. As you said and most of us already know,
some young people were already drinking anyway, so there wasn't much point
in changing things all for the worse.
E. Scrooge
Col
>Will we come to a stage of water shortage where cost will entice us to do
>separation of faeces and urine at source? What happens to baby's nappies
>these days?
Same as always. The go on clean and they come off full of shit . Bit like some
of the posters in here .
--
Col
Christchurch beaches are dangerous.
If in trouble hold up you hand and shout
F1 F1 F1 F1
Brian Sandle
> On 27 Aug 2001 00:00:26 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>Will we come to a stage of water shortage where cost will entice us to do
>>separation of faeces and urine at source? What happens to baby's nappies
>>these days?
> Same as always. The go on clean and they come off full of shit . Bit like some
> of the posters in here .
What if they are the disposable type? Are you encourafed to scrape'm off
into the sewer, or throw them with contents into the bag for the lanfill?
What are the consequences for land, estuary and sea creatures, and does it
point to any further directions?
What would you pay for plumbing to use your shower water for the garden
irrigation? What happens when house owners are metered for wastewater
outflow and charged? Then does the charge bring in more money than the
cost of the disposal? Then there would be no incentive for the authority
to publicise water care - they would lose on it.
At what stage with sewage does water care become a problem as the sewage
becomes too concentrated?
Are you familiar with the futures market? A speculator agrees to buy or
supply a manufacturer at a constant price to help them be able to function
when the market may be changing. The speculator may gain or lose.
Could a futures principle be applied to resource consents? Perhaps the
resource authority would say, `You may discharge as you are doing only as
long as no futher degradation of estuary takes place at 6 monthly
measurements, but that you must keep abreast of current technology which
may improve it.' That could mean a change in technology becoming
available in 3 years. It would cost to implement it. A futures broker may
have been able to be contracted to take the possible loss. But then the
futures broker might try to hide or suppress new technology. Does it
happen?
Who is benefiting from continuing water disposal of domestic and
industrial waste?
Dodo Dolphin
--
Steve
> On 25 Aug 2001 16:23:05 GMT, Brian Sandle
> <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> said:
>>Is it coincidence that New Brighton has become sadly unsafe since the
>>easly availability of alcohol to 18 year-olds to pass it down to younger
>>ones?
> Younger ones were also getting their hands on booze when the drinking
> age was 21.
New Zealand is going to learn the same lesson that Michigan and Ontario
learned in the 1970s.
You let the younger ones have booze and then group below them get it even
easier. Then they drink to death, or fall off some thing......or steal a
car and kill themselves or someone else.
Anyway...the list is long.
Ontario raised the age up to 19 to get it out of the high schools.
Michigan went back to 21.
But they had tried 18 for almost 15 years. It didn't work.
--
Regards
Steve Withers / New Zealand
swit...@mmp.org.nz
Brian Sandle
amount of excitement. Certain problems are forseen but it is hoped that
they can be minimised.
The main drive comes from the expected increase in the value of second
grade water coupled with increased cost of disposal or treatment of it
near Christchurch.
Awareness is rising worldwide of the value to human health of a clean
environment. Visitors to New Zealand notice the cleaner skies not only
visually but also many of them feel better breathing the air. This is not
true at all times in Christchurch but moves are towards the denecessiation
of solid fuel for home heating soon and the the volume of cars does not
approach that of most university cities eslewhere. A large immigration is
to be expected.
The extra volume of sewage produced by the greater population will
possibly be dealt with by a newly devised scheme. As well as clean air the
value of extremely clean water and seawater is becoming well recognised.
In the last decade the smell of the surf at New Brighton has not been
quite what it had been. Middle-aged residents have noted the loss of the
fresh sea smell on many occasions, compared to what they had known in
their younger days, finding a trip north nearer to the Ashley outflow to
find the fresh smell. Sometimes the sea even has the lemon odour agent
from dishwashing liquid coming from city wastewater. That odour agent
would also be expected to come to shore from a pipeline disposal scheme 3
kilometers offshore that had been one possiblity envisaged by wastewater
planners. Being estrogenic it is not thought to be acceptible for cetacean
or other sea life becoming important in many respects to the new
generation, besides being unnatural to human perception at the seaside.
The new scheme will pipe wastewater via a new route across the old Bexley
landfill, the Owles Terrace Council land and to the coast via Hood Street.
From there it will be piped diagonally through the sea bed to an
extension of the New Brighton Pier from where it will be shipped in towed
sea slugs to parched areas of Canterbury and Marlborough. Puchasers may
choose to use solar distillation or partial solar distillation of it
before applying it to forests, crops or town use.
In the long term it is not certain how much of its water Christchurch will
wish to recycle for its own purposes, when technology may arise to do that
in limited space. But the sales of the wastewater instead may continue to
prove viable. Increased population density is also reducing the amount of
water required for home gardens.
Opponents of the scheme claim that new plumbing technology and sharing of
grey water for gardens, combined with a new human waste technology will
denecessitate the development. However in the meantime ideas are being
asked for in relation to connection of the extended Pier to a system of
wave power generators mounted on an artificial reef forming a more
sheltered mooring for the slug tugs.
Brian Sandle
This unit comes with seat heating options of warm water piping, for those
who prefer no thermoelectrics near the skin. For the economy model the
upper part of the seat is lifted and warm water from an electric jug is
poured in.
Below there is a forward and a rear compartment and quick freeze
thermoelectric technology applies in the rear compartment which is
intended to receive a greater proportion of the sold waste eliminating
splash. A gentle downdraft fan system is provided to avoid odours arising
into the room.
Col
You selling these commercially now ?
Brian Sandle
> On 27 Aug 2001 23:15:23 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>>This unit comes with seat heating options of warm water piping, for those
>>who prefer no thermoelectrics near the skin. For the economy model the
>>upper part of the seat is lifted and warm water from an electric jug is
>>poured in.
>>
>>Below there is a forward and a rear compartment and quick freeze
>>thermoelectric technology applies in the rear compartment which is
>>intended to receive a greater proportion of the sold waste eliminating
>>splash. A gentle downdraft fan system is provided to avoid odours arising
>>into the room.
>>
> You selling these commercially now ?
It looks like there will be some delay in supply.
Environmentalists have expressed some concern at the extra energy
consumption required for keeping the waste frozen, pending removal to a
treatment site, though it is suspected that they could be stooges from
conventional water carrier sewage disposal companies.
Calculations are also going on as to the volume of solid waste which
should be collected all at once. It is a question of economy of freezer
size against more frequent collection costs.
One of the benefits of this disposal method is to reduce risk of infection
spread possible by the rupture of the old type sewerage schemes possible
in floods and earthquakes. Solar cells are getting cheaper and recommended
backup.
Christchurch, New Zealand, has just had a letterbox drop about ways to
quake safe your home. People will be doing there own calcuations as to how
much input they will give to the securing measures. The New Zealand cities
ought to be, too, in terms of infectious waste security.
What other newsgroups for this?
Brian Sandle
Proponents of the New Brighton Pier extension project (see
nz.reg.canterbury.general) were feeling threatened by introduction of
freezer technology to lessen need for water disposal of sold sewage.
Extensions to the Pier were rumoured to be part of a grey water export
facility for Christchurch. They have come up with a new scheme. They are
now totally behind the `Freezhit' technology. They say it would clean
Christchurch wastewater which could now move more quickly through the
treatment plant. They advocate diverting rainwater into the sewers in a
controlled fashion and using sea slugs as storage lakes.
Brian Sandle
> Proponents of the New Brighton Pier extension project (see
> nz.reg.canterbury.general) were feeling threatened by introduction of
> freezer technology to lessen need for water disposal of sold sewage.
> Extensions to the Pier were rumoured to be part of a grey water export
> facility for Christchurch. They have come up with a new scheme. They are
> now totally behind the `Freezhit' technology. They say it would clean
> Christchurch wastewater which could now move more quickly through the
> treatment plant. They advocate diverting rainwater into the sewers in a
> controlled fashion and using sea slugs as storage lakes.
Aspiring civil defenders applauded the concept of grey water storage in
polpropylene sea slugs. They pointed out that land based lakes can rupture
in quakes.
Questions have also been asked as to the development of a computer model
of sea currents which could be used to plan transport of the slugs to
drought areas.
Col
Any other newsgroup instead of this one will do. There's enough shit in here
without you cutting and pasting megabytes of uninteresting crap (excuse the
pun). LOL
Col
*yawn* ..
Brian Sandle
> Any other newsgroup instead of this one will do. There's enough shit in here
> without you cutting and pasting megabytes of uninteresting crap (excuse the
> pun). LOL
Head-in-the-sand, Col.
If you think I am doing petty potty talk, what about the putty talk in the
EQC booklet?
Brian Sandle
> *yawn* ..
Well I could write a thriller about transfer of diseases about the planet
in the grey water.
How about solar distillation works at sea? There's lots of space out
there.
Plankton?
Col
>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>
>> Any other newsgroup instead of this one will do. There's enough shit in here
>> without you cutting and pasting megabytes of uninteresting crap (excuse the
>> pun). LOL
>
>Head-in-the-sand, Col.
>
no way I'm putting my head in the sand. They probably will be using the sand to
filter the shit out .
Brian Sandle
> On 28 Aug 2001 04:40:32 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Any other newsgroup instead of this one will do. There's enough shit in here
>>> without you cutting and pasting megabytes of uninteresting crap (excuse the
>>> pun). LOL
>>
>>Head-in-the-sand, Col.
>>
> no way I'm putting my head in the sand. They probably will be using the sand to
> filter the shit out .
Ostriches need protection.
Col
>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>> On 28 Aug 2001 04:40:32 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>>Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any other newsgroup instead of this one will do. There's enough shit in here
>>>> without you cutting and pasting megabytes of uninteresting crap (excuse the
>>>> pun). LOL
>>>
>>>Head-in-the-sand, Col.
>>>
>> no way I'm putting my head in the sand. They probably will be using the sand to
>> filter the shit out .
>
>Ostriches need protection.
We have ostriches in New Brighton ? Geeeze
Col
>In sci.geo.oceanography Col <I'm...@thebardrunk.com> wrote:
>> On 28 Aug 2001 03:29:59 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>>Questions have also been asked as to the development of a computer model
>>>of sea currents which could be used to plan transport of the slugs to
>>>drought areas.
>
>
>> *yawn* ..
>
>Well I could write a thriller about transfer of diseases about the planet
>in the grey water.
Rivetting stuff.
>How about solar distillation works at sea? There's lots of space out
>there.
Equally rivetting.
>Plankton?
No thanks . I am having a steak tonight.
Brian Sandle
> On 28 Aug 2001 05:41:18 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>>>Head-in-the-sand, Col.
>>>>
>>> no way I'm putting my head in the sand. They probably will be using the sand to
>>> filter the shit out .
>>
>>Ostriches need protection.
> We have ostriches in New Brighton ?
Then what entity is not putting head in the sand?
> Geeeze
And there are a lot of Canada Geese on the Estuary.
If the Freezhit comes into vogue what will it do to
1. Nitrogenous material entering Estuary
2. Biomass in the Estuary
3. Diversity in the Estuary.
Dodo. The Estuary Breathes.
Brian Sandle
> On 28 Aug 2001 05:08:28 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
> Rivetting stuff.
> Equally rivetting.
There might be some work for a rivetter.
>>Plankton?
> No thanks . I am having a steak tonight.
Col could be worried about eatintg spirulina from near where grey water
might escape.
Col
Shit in the Estaury..
Col
Sea lettuce has never been on my menu Brian
Brian Sandle
> On 28 Aug 2001 10:43:58 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>And there are a lot of Canada Geese on the Estuary.
>>
>>If the Freezhit comes into vogue what will it do to
>>
>>1. Nitrogenous material entering Estuary
>>2. Biomass in the Estuary
>>3. Diversity in the Estuary.
>>
> Shit in the Estaury..
The rebound theory for vitamin C says persons who take that scurvy
preventive can get scurvy if they suddenly stop.
There could be a rebound for the Estuary if we were suddenly to stop
putting the sewage nitrates in. Therefore perhaps we ought to stop slowly.
For a while Col and the other ostriches for the sake of the argument can
continue on at the Estuary.
Dodo. The Estuary Breathes.
Brian Sandle
> On 28 Aug 2001 10:50:22 GMT, Brian Sandle <bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>Col could be worried about eatintg spirulina from near where grey water
>>might escape.
> Sea lettuce has never been on my menu Brian
Except when you buy it in $6 or something packs from Super Value Plus as
Sushi Wrap?
Dodo. The Estuary Breathes
Richard Herring
> There is a workshop on the Christchurch, New Zealand, Heathcote Avon
> Estuary on Tue Aug 28 at 6.30 pm at the Mount Pleasant Community Centre.
> The Christchurch wastewater flows into it, the design flow being 200,000
> cubic metres per day in a 1998 publication.
Not an ideal working environment.
--
Richard Herring | <richard...@baesystems.com>
Brian Sandle
> Brian Sandle (bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz) wrote:
>> There is a workshop on the Christchurch, New Zealand, Heathcote Avon
>> Estuary on Tue Aug 28 at 6.30 pm at the Mount Pleasant Community Centre.
>> The Christchurch wastewater flows into it, the design flow being 200,000
>> cubic metres per day in a 1998 publication.
> Not an ideal working environment.
No. There is some upgrading going on. I think the following is as it has
been:
http://www.ccc.govt.nz/waste/Wastewater/treatment.asp
http://www.ccc.govt.nz/waste/Wastewater/FlowDiagram.asp
Occasionally in heavy rain it would overflow at about 7 points around the
city, into rivers or sea, I think. Recently there has been checking for
and stopping stormwater entry points from rooves to sewers. Permission had
not been granted to the Council to increase the number of overflow points,
as I heard at the meeting. A plan of action with stakeholders to improve
Estuary was discussed.
Arnt Karlsen
>
> Richard Herring <r...@gmrc.gecm.com> wrote:
> > Brian Sandle (bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz) wrote:
> http://www.ccc.govt.nz/waste/Wastewater/FlowDiagram.asp
..how much electric power is produced?
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-)
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
Col
What do you do with your excrement ? Does it not make it to the estaury ?
Col
I don't shop at Super Value on this side of town. Too dangerous.
I also would not eat any food prepared in Aranui's finest supermart any way if I
did shop there.
I don't eat sushi anyway.
talin
sewage into bladders and transporting them to another location when we
can treat the waste an site and reuse the effluent?
For that matter can transporting water half way around the world make
more sense than desalinization?
Brian Sandle wrote:
Bill Dougherty
MWS LLC
Dallas
Brian Sandle
> I don't understand...why go through the expense and liability of pumping
> sewage into bladders and transporting them to another location when we
> can treat the waste an site and reuse the effluent?
Yes, I think London for example recycles its water a number of times.
> For that matter can transporting water half way around the world make
> more sense than desalinization?
I think that water for drinking is shipped from New Zealand to the Middle
East.
I suppose it depends on how cheap the energy is for desalination.
Maybe you are reading from the physics newsgroup. On the others I did ask
about the idea of using ocean currents to move the bladders.
Here in Christchurch we have an excellent supply of artesian water. We do
not need to recycle. Just occasionally we have garden watering
restrictions when the aquifers get a bit low. One has very slight salt
incursion.
Rivers near here sometimes run low, which means that the concept of using
river water is in doubt, too.
But 200 mile north there has been drought in the Marlborough farm land for
several years.
Should we be spilling our water to the ocean to mix with salt water?
Brian Sandle
> There is a workshop on the Christchurch, New Zealand, Heathcote Avon
> Estuary on Tue Aug 28 at 6.30 pm at the Mount Pleasant Community Centre.
> The Christchurch wastewater flows into it, the design flow being 200,000
> cubic metres per day in a 1998 publication.
> Discussion is going on as to whether this should continue, maybe with a
> more purified outflow, that I want to find out, or whether something like
> a 3 Km pipeline should take it out to sea. Whether that would be less
> purified I should like to know, too.
> Some further questions:
> How much energy is being lost by diluting the sea with the non-saline
> wastewater (when salt is dissolved in water it cools it)?
> How much of the waste water, which comes from artesian source, would have
> gone into the estuary through the rivers, rather than through the water
> table to the sea, thereby depleting the estuary?
> I expect that last amount not to be too great.
Or is it?
Christchurch water use drops 2/3 in winter indicating that in summer 1/3
is not being use for watering gardens.
I am sure that the aquifer use is dropping the river outflow to the
estuary. To pipe the wastewater outflow directly to sea might increase the
salinity of the lower stretches of the rivers. Any data on that anywhere?
At present the cleaned wastewater goes into the estuary not too far from
where one of the rivers does. They wait till after high tide.
Might it be better to put very clean wastewater into the estuary
constantly - as the rivers had been doing?
Noddy
<bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
So you are suggesting that we send full bladders of our waste to
Marlborough?
Col
I'm for that if someone pays to fill it with Speights and pays my fare . :)
Brian Sandle
Itsh lyke thish, y'shee,
sh'free hopsh exshpe `'`'riment.
gov paysh. docsh get profitsh la `'`'ter.
too'shmall bladdersh?
Noddy
<bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
Hahaha, the Brian joker is a laugh a minute, aye?
He'd be the life of any party. and that's why he's coming to my next
one.
Richard Herring
> Richard Herring <r...@gmrc.gecm.com> wrote:
> > Brian Sandle (bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz) wrote:
> >> There is a workshop [...]
> >> The Christchurch wastewater flows into it, the design flow being 200,000
> >> cubic metres per day in a 1998 publication.
> > Not an ideal working environment.
> No. There is some upgrading going on.
<fx>whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooossssssssssssshhhhhhhhh!</fx>
--
Richard Herring | <richard...@baesystems.com>
Brian Sandle
> Hahaha, the Brian joker is a laugh a minute, aye?
> He'd be the life of any party. and that's why he's coming to my next
> one.
Now I think Dodo ought to tell a little joke. Wouldn't want Col to get
bored. I mean this is election time.
Better start wiring in a wit link. Now what planet have we left the humour
computer on? How are we getting on with that portable?
Col: "yawn."
Better get serious about it.
Are you any connection to the `Big Ears,' who Sarns talks of, Noddy?
Now may I amaize you with some corny data?
It would take 97% of the agricultural land in USA to grow sufficient corn
to produce enough ethanol to run all the cars there.
I'm not sure if it's good for me either.
DoughDough Dolphin
Brian Sandle
> <fx>whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooossssssssssssshhhhhhhhh!</fx>
> --
> Richard Herring | <richard...@baesystems.com>
That is the sound of a dolphin as heard by the brother of an unlucky
herring.
The herrings might not be so lucky with the current upgrade - 50%
reduction in organic sort of stuff in the outflow either. So how about the
dolphins?
It's all being done to please the people who don't like the sea lettuce, I
think.
Whereas the design flow is 200,000 cubic metres per day, the actual flow
is about 140,000.
The rivers into the Estuary produce 1.2 cubic meters per second
(Heathcote) and 2.4 cubic metres per second (Avon).
The outflow is released just after high tide.
So now the biophysicists can contemplate on duration of various stages of
the daily salinity cycle in the lower stretches of the rivers, and how
creatures may have adapted to changes since 1875.
Dodo Dolphin. The Estuary Breathes.
Richard Herring
> Richard Herring <r...@gmrc.gecm.com> wrote:
> > Brian Sandle (bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz) wrote:
> >> Richard Herring <r...@gmrc.gecm.com> wrote:
> >> > Brian Sandle (bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz) wrote:
> >> >> There is a workshop [...]
> >> >> The Christchurch wastewater flows into it, the design flow being 200,000
> >> >> cubic metres per day in a 1998 publication.
> >> > Not an ideal working environment.
> >> No. There is some upgrading going on.
> > <fx>whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhoooooooooooooooooooooossssssssssssshhhhhhhhh!</fx>
> That is the sound of a dolphin as heard by the brother of an unlucky
> herring.
No, it's the sound of 200,000 m^3/d of sewage flowing through
a small workshop.
--
Richard Herring | <richard...@baesystems.com>
Brian Sandle
>> > <fx>whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhoooooooooooooooooooooossssssssssssshhhhhhhhh!</fx>
>> That is the sound of a dolphin as heard by the brother of an unlucky
>> herring.
> No, it's the sound of 200,000 m^3/d of sewage flowing through
> a small workshop.
Are there other ways?
We seem to have a preoccupation with concentration.
OK so it allows some different things as does concentration of matter in
the sun. But it's not too good to be too near some reactors.
Take a look at different solar systems. Will livable planets have to be
further from a larger central star? Then the summer/winter cycle is going
to be longer.
Hello to other systems.
Dodo Dolphin. The Estuary Breathes
jmfb...@aol.com
r...@gmrc.gecm.com (Richard Herring) wrote:
>Brian Sandle (bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz) wrote:
>> Richard Herring <r...@gmrc.gecm.com> wrote:
>> > Brian Sandle (bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz) wrote:
>> >> Richard Herring <r...@gmrc.gecm.com> wrote:
>> >> > Brian Sandle (bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz) wrote:
>
>> >> >> There is a workshop [...]
>
>> >> >> The Christchurch wastewater flows into it, the design flow being
200,000
>> >> >> cubic metres per day in a 1998 publication.
>
>> >> > Not an ideal working environment.
>
>> >> No. There is some upgrading going on.
>
>> >
<fx>whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhoooooooooooooooooooooossssssssssssshhhhhhhhh!</fx>
>
>> That is the sound of a dolphin as heard by the brother of an unlucky
>> herring.
>
>No, it's the sound of 200,000 m^3/d of sewage flowing through
>a small workshop.
What? No plop, plop, fizz, fizz sound effects?
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
Arnt Karlsen
>
> Brian Sandle wrote:
> >
> > Richard Herring <r...@gmrc.gecm.com> wrote:
> > > Brian Sandle (bsa...@shell.caverock.net.nz) wrote:
>
> > http://www.ccc.govt.nz/waste/Wastewater/FlowDiagram.asp
>
> ..how much electric power is produced?
>
..anyone who can point me towards this info?
..fut set to sew.
Richard Herring
That would depend on what they make in the workshop.
--
Richard Herring | <richard...@baesystems.com>