Brain drain to OZ ??
BJ
There was a NET outflow to Australia of 14,100 in the November 2004
year.
So what are so attractive across the ditch??? Care to share pls.
Mr. Other Side of Story
apparent net exodos could be due to very low immigration numbers? Oz is a
beatiful country and I cannot imagine anyone leaving unless it was for
family or pension reasons etc.
"BJ" <bax...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a9d65fa4.0501...@posting.google.com...
Diabolik
"Mr. Other Side of Story" <sendn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41db8089$0$4964$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> I don't know, we need statistics before drawing conclusions for example,
the
> apparent net exodos could be due to very low immigration numbers? Oz is a
> beatiful country and I cannot imagine anyone leaving unless it was for
> family or pension reasons etc.
That's probably because you have never lived anywhere else.
Oz is a beautiful country, but it's boring, people are anal, workaholics,
and it's at the arse end of the world. Everything is happening in Europe and
in the US.
Flange
"Diabolik" <diab...@email.com> wrote in message
news:hdMCd.104299$K7.8...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Well? What's stopping you.
Can we help with the ticket cost?
Peter
Many years Muldoon (former NZ PM) commented on the 'brain drain' from
NZ to Australia reckoning it would increase the IQ on both sides of
the Tasman. The ABC trotted this out in a news item just before
Christmas in conjunction with a news item concerning NZ. Presumably
the ABC periodically likes to remind its listeners of this.
The Socialist
> Oz is a beautiful country, but it's boring, people are anal,
> workaholics, and it's at the arse end of the world. Everything is
> happening in Europe and in the US.
What is it that's happening in EU and US ?
--
The Socialist
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we." - George Dubya Bush in his moment of honesty.
Harry Snape
arriving on a permanent or long term basis.
Craig
> Diabolik wrote:
>
>
>>Oz is a beautiful country, but it's boring, people are anal,
>>workaholics, and it's at the arse end of the world. Everything is
>>happening in Europe and in the US.
>
>
> What is it that's happening in EU and US ?
>
>
>
Diabolik
"The Socialist" <soci...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:341sa1F...@individual.net...
> Diabolik wrote:
>
> > Oz is a beautiful country, but it's boring, people are anal,
> > workaholics, and it's at the arse end of the world. Everything is
> > happening in Europe and in the US.
>
> What is it that's happening in EU and US ?
If you don't know, you won't get it.
Home Mail
There are many great things about New Zealand but unfortunately the climate
is not one of them. I am thinking about moving to Brisbane with climate
being one of my main considerations. There are a lot more IT jobs in
Melbourne and Sydney but I am willing to sacrifice a bit of dough in order
to have a decent frikkin' summer. I am sick and tired of this rubbish NZ
weather we've had over the last few years.
To be honest though I think it all boils down to money. Larger cities have
more job opportunities and us Kiwis in general are pretty resourceful and
hardworking. We can pick up jobs anywhere and end up doing very well.
David
raises the IQ on both sides of the Tasman.
"The Socialist" <soci...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:341sa1F...@individual.net...
Peter
>They say that migration to Australia
>raises the IQ on both sides of the Tasman.
>
That is what Muldoon said years ago.
tom
The old diabolik "I don't know" response again.
Grass
The US-FTA is likely to exaggerate this effect, as our high value
industries are going to be fried by the changes to IP, etc. Check out
"How To Kill A Country".
Grass.
Diabolik
"tom" <t...@bigpond.com.au> wrote in message
news:Iu_Cd.105201$K7.3...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Read the response to Tex.
Axel VK
The US yes, europe NO WAY! I've lived there and it's boring and backward.
Australia or the US is where to be. Europe? Nobody cares if the places sinks
in the ocean.......
kokopelli
right, the rich, the stupid, and the arrogant. There is nothing in the
United States that is better than Europe in any regard, except the
ability to delude oneself with the "American Dream", meanwhile the
place is going down the tubes in all regards, economics, social,
intellectual, and cultural.
kokopelli
'Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans" - John
Lennon
Glitch NZ
>http://www2.stats.govt.nz/domino/external/pasfull/pasfull.nsf/web/Media+Release+External+Migration+November+20
04?open
>
>There was a NET outflow to Australia of 14,100 in the November 2004
>year.
>So what are so attractive across the ditch??? Care to share pls.
I am currently looking at moving to aussie, now that the election result has
come in - and its for a very simple reason. I am 23 year old single male and
have $13,000 student debt. I work 60 hours a week and the government collects
49 percent of my earnings. in other words I am working over 29 hours a week
to feed the mouths of children people have to get tax cuts. In australia I
will get paid more and taxed less. I will also be able to scrap my loan all
together. I would actually be able to save up and secure my future rather
than rely on Aunty Helen to decide whats good for me. Why would I stay here?
Bob Howard
"Glitch NZ" <glitc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:feL0f.16134$iM2.1...@news.xtra.co.nz...
You've summed it up well. If National had won you would at least be getting
a tax cut. My advice is go to Australia and do the best for yourself. You
might as well get out of this country where hard work and achievement is not
appreciated.
Bob Howard.
Warwick
It might be your intention to never pay the loan back, but if so I'd not
state it. You will put a lot of other taxpayers offside with you.
Also once you have written something down, it can't be unwritten should it
ever be presented as evidence in court. Granted such an event is unlikely
or impossible in this case, but I'd still advise caution mate.
cheers
Kerry
"Glitch NZ" <glitc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
What are you being paid here?
What will you be paid there?
How much will rental/personal insurance/health insurance cost you there?
How much faster will you pay off your loan at 0% interest rate on your
NZ salary? How long will it take? How long will it take to pay off at
7% interest and how much will it cost?
I've recently been in Australia, I would be surprised if you are correct
about being significantly better off in an Australian city on the sort
of income you can make at 23.
--
Just because something is beyond your comprehension doesn't mean
it is scientific.
Kerry
Kerry <ker...@iiiihug.co.invalid> wrote:
> In article <feL0f.16134$iM2.1...@news.xtra.co.nz>,
> "Glitch NZ" <glitc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 5/01/2005 6:41:36 p.m., wrote:
> > >http://www2.stats.govt.nz/domino/external/pasfull/pasfull.nsf/web/Media+Rel
> > >ea
> > >se+External+Migration+November+20
> > 04?open
> > >
> > >There was a NET outflow to Australia of 14,100 in the November 2004
> > >year.
> > >So what are so attractive across the ditch??? Care to share pls.
> >
> > I am currently looking at moving to aussie, now that the election result
> > has
> > come in - and its for a very simple reason. I am 23 year old single male
> > and
> > have $13,000 student debt. I work 60 hours a week and the government
> > collects
> > 49 percent of my earnings. in other words I am working over 29 hours a week
> > to feed the mouths of children people have to get tax cuts. In australia I
> > will get paid more and taxed less. I will also be able to scrap my loan all
> > together. I would actually be able to save up and secure my future rather
> > than rely on Aunty Helen to decide whats good for me. Why would I stay
> > here?
In Australia on $60,000 pa you will pay $285 tax plus $28 Medicare levy
a week. You will also be required to pay back your student loan, lets
presume you are honourable and pay it back in the way you should when at
home, or are you planning on being a bludger like those you so decry?
So that's $83.50 student loan repayment per week in NZ or Australia
Net pay in Australia $757 per week
In NZ you would not have to pay the medicare charges, you would still
have the student loan, but no interest charges, so the loan can be paid
off faster
Net pay in Nz $774 in the hand per week, and a student loan paid off
much faster than it can be in Australian $. Cost of living is higher
there too, housing etc is more
42c in the $ would be your salary top tax rate in Aus, plus 1.5%
Medicare levy and 1% Medicare surcharge. PLUS the 10c in the $ student
loan repayment you are honour bound to make back to NZ
Top tax rate here is 33c in the $ for that salary, no medicare payments,
and of course you would pay back your student loan, as you should, but
you will save $1,000 or so a year in interest written off, and pay off
your loan significantly faster, several years faster.
Unless you have some secret, and 23 year olds are paid significantly
more in Aus, you are wrong to say you will pay less tax there.
Just JT
Forget Australia. Move to Singapore. The tax rate there is only 15%.
--
AustraliansAreAlsoTaxedToDeathBecauseOfSocialistPolicies
grumpyoldhori
>
>
> I am currently looking at moving to aussie, now that the election result has
> come in - and its for a very simple reason. I am 23 year old single male and
> have $13,000 student debt. I work 60 hours a week and the government collects
> 49 percent of my earnings. in other words I am working over 29 hours a week
> to feed the mouths of children people have to get tax cuts. In australia I
> will get paid more and taxed less. I will also be able to scrap my loan all
> together. I would actually be able to save up and secure my future rather
> than rely on Aunty Helen to decide whats good for me. Why would I stay here?
Well,you are not a great little bludger,the NZ taxpayer paid the
majority of the cost of your education,but you seem to be moaning over a
small sum of $13000.
Bloody wonderful,while you are at varsity you want high taxes to pay for
your education,once you leave, you complain.
Christ,reason and logic must be lacking at varsity today.
What sort of wimp are you,sixty hours a week,so what,a hell of a lot
of people work those hours.
Why did you not,piss off to australia,straight out of high school
at your age you are owed, fuck all.
grumpy
inter_ton
Because we don't want you in Oz.
--Newsman--
wrote:
At his age, Australia offers a wider window on what the world has to
offer. Bigger country, greater dynamic.
He would be working in a higher value economy with a vastly greater
range of opportunities. Because of these two factors his prospects are
immeasurably greater than in New Zealand.
One thing he *will* certainly notice, and which will help to broaden
his outlook, is that he'll feel more - and better - connected with the
rest of the world.
If one thing now characterises the Australians it's *self-confidence*
and that will be one of the biggest benefits of all to the newcomer
there.
Dave
"Kerry" <ker...@iiiihug.co.invalid> wrote in message
news:kerryd-5DDC41....@news.xtra.co.nz...
Snip
> Unless you have some secret, and 23 year olds are paid significantly
> more in Aus, you are wrong to say you will pay less tax there.
>
Lol
Don't tell 'em anything - get rid of em.
We need people who don't mind WORK, and who don't feel that the world owes
23yo's a living.
DW
Kerry
sla...@hotmail.com (--Newsman--) wrote:
>
> He would be working in a higher value economy with a vastly greater
> range of opportunities. Because of these two factors his prospects are
> immeasurably greater than in New Zealand.
>
> One thing he *will* certainly notice, and which will help to broaden
> his outlook, is that he'll feel more - and better - connected with the
> rest of the world.
That may be the case
However he will only be financially better off if he absconds and
neglects to pay back his Nz debts while he does so.
H Dickmann
"inter_ton" <tw...@ogxpress.com> wrote in message
news:43443324$0$28528$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Liberal.
We got a million if them in the last 10 years and Howard is laughing.
--Newsman--
wrote:
>In article <43443b2b...@news.actrix.co.nz>,
> sla...@hotmail.com (--Newsman--) wrote:
>
>>
>> He would be working in a higher value economy with a vastly greater
>> range of opportunities. Because of these two factors his prospects are
>> immeasurably greater than in New Zealand.
>>
>> One thing he *will* certainly notice, and which will help to broaden
>> his outlook, is that he'll feel more - and better - connected with the
>> rest of the world.
>
>That may be the case
>
>However he will only be financially better off if he absconds and
>neglects to pay back his Nz debts while he does so.
>
If he has any maturity at all, he'll be aware that at his age his
relative financial position vis a vis the two countries is only a
short term consideration.
Longer term, it's invariably the wider world for the broad-thinking,
the ambitious and the forward-looking.
And, invariably, it shows in every personality I know who has taken
those opportunities and met those challenges.
Kerry
sla...@hotmail.com (--Newsman--) wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:02:45 +1300, Kerry <ker...@iiiihug.co.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <43443b2b...@news.actrix.co.nz>,
> > sla...@hotmail.com (--Newsman--) wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> He would be working in a higher value economy with a vastly greater
> >> range of opportunities. Because of these two factors his prospects are
> >> immeasurably greater than in New Zealand.
> >>
> >> One thing he *will* certainly notice, and which will help to broaden
> >> his outlook, is that he'll feel more - and better - connected with the
> >> rest of the world.
> >
> >That may be the case
> >
> >However he will only be financially better off if he absconds and
> >neglects to pay back his Nz debts while he does so.
> >
> If he has any maturity at all, he'll be aware that at his age his
> relative financial position vis a vis the two countries is only a
> short term consideration.
>
> Longer term, it's invariably the wider world for the broad-thinking,
> the ambitious and the forward-looking.
So what was the appeal of this country for you? And now that you are
'free', why do you stay?
--Newsman--
wrote:
>In article <43444e7e...@news.actrix.co.nz>,
> sla...@hotmail.com (--Newsman--) wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:02:45 +1300, Kerry <ker...@iiiihug.co.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <43443b2b...@news.actrix.co.nz>,
>> > sla...@hotmail.com (--Newsman--) wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> He would be working in a higher value economy with a vastly greater
>> >> range of opportunities. Because of these two factors his prospects are
>> >> immeasurably greater than in New Zealand.
>> >>
>> >> One thing he *will* certainly notice, and which will help to broaden
>> >> his outlook, is that he'll feel more - and better - connected with the
>> >> rest of the world.
>> >
>> >That may be the case
>> >
>> >However he will only be financially better off if he absconds and
>> >neglects to pay back his Nz debts while he does so.
>> >
>> If he has any maturity at all, he'll be aware that at his age his
>> relative financial position vis a vis the two countries is only a
>> short term consideration.
>>
>> Longer term, it's invariably the wider world for the broad-thinking,
>> the ambitious and the forward-looking.
>
>So what was the appeal of this country for you? And now that you are
>'free', why do you stay?
Because, Kerry, more years ago than I care to remember, I did exactly
as I now recommend.
And having done just that, New Zealand will do just fine for now.
Anyone who had travelled, and lived, and done what I have over the
years, would have already perceived and understood this and would not
have needed to ask.
Kerry
sla...@hotmail.com (--Newsman--) wrote:
Ahh, Newsman in action. Another nasty little put down of someone who
agrees with you, but you are too foolish to ask rather than tell them
their views. Something I just demonstrated as a technique for promoting
discussion, although in your case all it promotes is a sneer and a
revelation of just how important you believe you are.
Thanks
Glitch NZ
Wow,
Thanks for the information... Does make you think. But then you do have to
take a few things into consideration on top of the blakc and white numbers:
1) What about someone on $50,000 or $40,000\
2) If I'm getting $50,000 here how much will I get in australia (on average
$10,000 more) 3) The cost of living is higher, but so is the qualtity of
living 4) Oppertunity! I have been slowly moving north over the years - I
started out in Christchurch and now I'm in Auckland, and every time I've gone
north I've managed to have more and better job oppertunitys. 5) Maybe aussie
will me just another stepping stone?
Glitch NZ
T'is that attitude that wqill make New Zealand nothing but a bunch of Over
60's Baby boombers suckling the economy dry within 20 years. I was not
complaining about work, I'm pissed of with how my money is spent.
Glitch NZ
As it is, the student loan system is pretty bad - Mind you I have to quelms
paying my share for the education I recieved. What I would like to see is how
Mrs Clark is going to pay for the free money every NZ Citizen has a right to,
while I have spent the last four years paying 7%. At Interest free it every
man and his dog (Maybe the same one that votes) will have a loan - need it or
not - its FREE MONEY by the end of the decade the cost of student loans will
cripple the country and I don't want anything to do with it.
Glitch NZ
Bingo!
Glitch NZ
New Zealand is a beautyful country, ans I am proud of being a kiwi - I just
can't afford it right now. Maybe I will be back in 20 years?
Glitch NZ
I am not moaning over the loan. If more money went into education or tax cuts
or health I would be skippidy do. But no, the people that really need the
money in this country are the teenage whores that don't know how to use a
condom, refuse to tell the IRD who the father is, and then pop out as many as
they can to get on a higher welfare payment.
Working for families is a way of saying - have kids now, don't worry about if
you can afford it or not - NZ needs more bludgers not more workers. I have
been employed in one way or another since the age of 10. I pay the highest
tax rate, work above average hours, and generally have contributed a lot of
effort to the New Zealand economy. My rewards are the most expensive health
costs, no support for my education (I was refused an allowance because the
whereabouts of one of my parents was unknown) and the privelidge of
subsidizing those with no intention of contributing to society.
For my first two years out of school I paid more interest on my loan than I
actually paid loan off. My original loan was only $11,000, Only now that I am
doing better has it started to go down.
Janice
The shallowness of your argument guarantees that you will not
appreciate the a priori of the following argument. I am posting it for
the benefit of those to whom you are replying -- who do understand the
ferocious audacity of economy and politics.
" At the risk of oversimplification, the public protection of the
private rights of property owners can be understood as the following
sort of bargain: the government first lays down, interprets, and
enforces the rules that assign property to particular individuals, and
then it provides security of possession to owners in exchange for
political support and a steady flow of revenue. The delivery of welfare
rights (understood capaciously to include more than cash transfers) is
part of an ancillary exchange by which the government and the taxpaying
citizens recompense the poor, or at least give them symbolic
recognition, for their cooperative behavior during war and peace. Most
importantly, welfare rights compensate the indigent for receiving less
value than the rich from the rights ostensibly guaranteeed equally to
all. Entitlement programs cost the US taxpayer 700 billion in 1996.
This astronomical expenditure, which accounted for 30% of the budget,
was not simply an expression of fellow feeling or a logical corollary
of principlesn of justice. Rather, entitlements can be shaved back but
not eliminated entirely because they lend legitimacy both to the
property rights of the wealthy and the state apparatus that enforces
them. In this sense, they are a bargain among social groups in which
the government of the day acts as a go-between."
Holmes and Sunstein, "The Cost of Rights", pp 208-9.
tunedin
Poor wee thing. Fancy having to work in order to repay some debt.
It appears that you have forgotten that folk already working ,have paid
taxes so that you were able to have that nice free education up to
universtity , where the taxpayer still paid for around 85% of your tuition.
I think you will find that there is a reciprocal agreement with Australia
where you pay your NZ debts.
All through the recent election facts and tax figures were quoted...but
no-one showed that folk pay less tax in Australia than in NZ.
But you will earn more.....and you can thank the employment contracts act
for that. Maybe you could show the Aussies the advantages of not going down
that particular path.
Kerry
"Glitch NZ" <glitc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Oh yes you are
>If more money went into education or tax cuts
> or health I would be skippidy do.
More money is.
>But no, the people that really need the
> money in this country are the teenage whores that don't know how to use a
> condom, refuse to tell the IRD who the father is, and then pop out as many as
> they can to get on a higher welfare payment.
Do post us the statistics on numbers of teenage mothers on a benefit.
And how they will benefit from the working for families tax rebates in
the election manifesto.
Thankyou
>
> Working for families is a way of saying - have kids now, don't worry about if
> you can afford it or not - NZ needs more bludgers not more workers.
To qualify for working for families you must be a worker. Sorry to
burst that bubble
>I have
> been employed in one way or another since the age of 10.
My heart bleeds for you
> I pay the highest
> tax rate,
Once you earn more than $60,000 pa. So how many of your $ are taxed at
the highest tax rate?
>work above average hours,
So do many NZers, my wee saint
>and generally have contributed a lot of
> effort to the New Zealand economy.
Have you paid back for what you have taken yet? Do you intend to?
>My rewards are the most expensive health
> costs,
Free hospital care and huge subsidies for under 24s to see GPs in the
past few months? Are you sickly? What expensive health care costs do
you have?
>no support for my education (I was refused an allowance because the
> whereabouts of one of my parents was unknown)
75% of the costs of your education were paid for by the state. The rest
was given to you interest free for the most part.
> and the privelidge of
> subsidizing those with no intention of contributing to society.
I'd like a breakdown of that. How much of your $ goes to whom?
>
> For my first two years out of school I paid more interest on my loan than I
> actually paid loan off.
About to change for those who remain in NZ.
>My original loan was only $11,000, Only now that I am
> doing better has it started to go down.
Well aren't you lucky, things are getting better for you within only 2
years of graduation.
What were you moaning about again?
Kerry
"Glitch NZ" <glitc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You obviously haven't done the sums
So, why is paying "the top tax rate" of 49 cents in the dollar ( you are
wrong about that btw) better than paying a top tax rate of 52 cents in
the dollar plus 2.5% medicare levies in Australia?
--Newsman--
wrote:
There was nothing that needed to be asked and...
"Tell them their views". What kind of muddle-headed thinking is this?
>Something I just demonstrated as a technique for promoting
>discussion, although in your case all it promotes is a sneer and a
>revelation of just how important you believe you are.
Then you failed in your (claimed) objective.
If you're going to attempt such a "demonstration of your technique"
(LOL!), then do at least try to get your "technique" sorted first.
But why not actually try achieving something more productive such as
refuting my commentary on the original poster's topic?
Kerry
"Glitch NZ" <glitc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/10/2005 10:02:47 a.m., Kerry wrote:
> >
> >That may be the case
> >
> >However he will only be financially better off if he absconds and
> >neglects to pay back his Nz debts while he does so.
>
> As it is, the student loan system is pretty bad
Tell me why....you get the full cost of your university education met by
the state. Your contribution is 25%...and you don't get charged
interest on that loan while you study or work in this country. What is
bad about it again?
Oh it's the personal contribution thing you don't like is it?
>- Mind you I have to quelms
Do you perhaps mean "two qualms"? Gosh what a great education that was
> paying my share for the education I recieved.
You obviously have qualms about paying any share, hence the desire to
abscond.
>What I would like to see is how
> Mrs Clark is going to pay for the free money every NZ Citizen has a right to,
> while I have spent the last four years paying 7%.
Ahh bitterness because the system is changing and you've paid 2 years
interest.
I suggest you need to look up the various manifestos as the way it will
be paid for is clearly spelled out.
>At Interest free it every
> man and his dog (Maybe the same one that votes) will have a loan - need it or
> not - its FREE MONEY by the end of the decade the cost of student loans will
> cripple the country and I don't want anything to do with it.
Well you might say that, I couldn't possibly comment. I have no
problems with an educated populus.....in some cases in point a better
educated populus would be better
So because student loan interest for those who are going to stay and
work in this country is being removed, you are planning on leaving the
terrible country? A real intellectual, I can tell
Kerry
"Glitch NZ" <glitc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You appear not to have the first idea about how your money is spent.
How many teenage mothers on the DPB and how much do they cost, remember
the q?
--Newsman--
Exactly.
But try telling Kerry that.
And oh please, please, please - do your best not to give a hint that
suggests you may be sneering at her!
Kerry
"Glitch NZ" <glitc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm all for thinking, did you not know this already? I suggest you go
and look on the Australian tax dept site
> But then you do have to
> take a few things into consideration on top of the blakc and white numbers:
>
> 1) What about someone on $50,000 or $40,000\
On $50,000 in Aus you pay a top tax rate of 42c/$ plus of course the
reciprocal 10c/$ on your student loan
$40k $2,340 plus 30c for each $1 over $21,600
Plus 2.5% of your taxable income for health levies
In NZ $38,001 to $60,000 inclusive 33 cents/S, $60,001 and over 39 cents
> 2) If I'm getting $50,000 here how much will I get in australia (on average
> $10,000 more)
Why will you get $10,000 more in Australia? Why are you a more valuable
23 year old there?
3) The cost of living is higher, but so is the qualtity of
> living
Have you lived there?
>4) Oppertunity!
OppORtunity
> I have been slowly moving north over the years - I
> started out in Christchurch and now I'm in Auckland, and every time I've gone
> north I've managed to have more and better job oppertunitys. 5) Maybe aussie
> will me just another stepping stone?
Opportunity is one thing. Saying you are leaving because you a) don't
want to repay your student loan b) don't agree with student loans (would
you rather have paid it all or higher fees and loans as in Australia?)
c) don't agree with the way "my" money is spent -when you patently have
no idea how "your" money IS spent are a completely different matter
Enjoy the wonderful opportunities in Australia, but repay your student
loans
--Newsman--
If you have any go in you, and anything about you, get out there and
do it.
It'll be the making of you.
Kerry
sla...@hotmail.com (--Newsman--) wrote:
Ahh you've found your common denominator
Stupid, naive 23 year olds who agree with you. Nice and unchallenging.
You could try sneering it me, but it conveys much much more about you.
Be happy
--Newsman--
If you think the way the country is being run is crap and there's
nothing to lose by trying your luck abroad, then why not go ahead?
Here, we have a critical skills shortage *and* derisory pay for all
but the top c5% who are absolutely creaming it. Meanwhile our debt
level is ever-mounting. No economy can *ever* improve with a scenario
like that.
But is this your fault? If not, why should you take the rap for it,
eh?
If you sugar off abroad, the dull and the unambitious will doubtless
whinge and moralise on your "attitude", but just think of it as a
straight business decision, much as any corporate boss, or his lawyer,
might.
It's all about *your* life, and *your* advancement, even your very
survival.
H Dickmann
You must be on a very low wage if you can't pay off your loan in 12 Months.
What did you study?
Geoff M
> So, why is paying "the top tax rate" of 49 cents in the dollar ( you are
> wrong about that btw) better than paying a top tax rate of 52 cents in
> the dollar plus 2.5% medicare levies in Australia?
One difference is where the rates cut in. 24% (IIRC) of NZers are "rich"
enough to pay the top rate. Don't forget the hidden taxes - GST is higher
here and covers everything.
Finally, there is what the equivalent job will pay. This obviously varies a
lot. Ditto with opportunities - the pool is bigger over there so there is
more to goo around, and more chance of climbing further up the tree,
including offshore.
If I was 23 again, I would be gone without a doubt. NZ is not the place it
was when I was 23, and is not better for it.
Geoff
grumpyoldhori
>
>
> T'is that attitude that wqill make New Zealand nothing but a bunch of Over
> 60's Baby boombers suckling the economy dry within 20 years. I was not
> complaining about work, I'm pissed of with how my money is spent.
So what did your education cost the taxpayer,would $100,000 sound
a fair sum.
So why are you so special,if believe in equality,where is my
$100,000 or should only people who go to varsity suck at
the taxpayer tit.
grumpy
dersu
"Bob Howard" <n...@spam.none.com> wrote in message
news:di00pu$42k$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...> news:feL0f.16134$iM2.1...@news.xtra.co.nz...
>> I am currently looking at moving to aussie, now that the election result
> has
>> come in - and its for a very simple reason. I am 23 year old single male
> and
>> have $13,000 student debt. I work 60 hours a week and the government
> collects
>> 49 percent of my earnings. in other words I am working over 29 hours a
> week
>> to feed the mouths of children people have to get tax cuts.
>
> You've summed it up well. If National had won you would at least be
> getting
> a tax cut. My advice is go to Australia and do the best for yourself. You
> might as well get out of this country where hard work and achievement is
> not
> appreciated.
>
I regret to say you are right to leave. Thanks to my high tax free salary
for a number of years before coming to NZ and our frugal lifestyle since
living here I hope our two will not need a large student loan but even so I
will encourage them to leave to earn a good living and save hopefully to
return here to the last best place on earth when they have "seen places and
been things."
D.
D.
Mark Addinall
"Kerry" <ker...@iiiihug.co.invalid> wrote in message
I have been following this thread with some interest and amusement.
One very brand new mate of mine turned up from Kiwiland. A contractor
on about the same sort of wicket as myself. When I started to explain the
tax structures, rates, plus GST, plus super, the BAS reports, accounting,
FBT etc, his mouth opened a little in suprise!
I see this young chap is a bit upset at a $13,000 student debt.
In Australia, you can add a zero onto that for a decent degree
from a good Uni. Many of our students ar starting
life with a $100,000 - $200,000 debt.
Mark Addinall.
JD
> I see this young chap is a bit upset at a $13,000 student debt.
> In Australia, you can add a zero onto that for a decent degree
> from a good Uni. Many of our students ar starting
> life with a $100,000 - $200,000 debt.
Crap. Example; University of Sydney.
Most of the students who study at the University of Sydney are
Commonwealth supported. These students have most of the cost of their
education paid by the government but must also contribute towards this
cost themselves. Each student has a seven-year full-time period during
which they can remain Commonwealth supported. This seven-year period is
called their "learning entitlement".
Some courses are more expensive to teach than others, so the amount
students contribute depends on the courses and subjects students choose
to study.
Commonwealth supported students who are Australian citizens or holders
of a permanent humanitarian visa can choose to pay their contributions
upfront or to obtain a HECS-HELP loan from the Commonwealth. A
HECS-HELP loan is repaid through the tax system once the student is
working and their income reaches a threshold (currently about $35,000).
Students who choose to pay their student contribution upfront receive a
20 per cent discount. The student's contribution is calculated twice a
year (before each semester).
Studying education or nursing would cost a student in 2005 $3847 for
the year. Humanities, arts, behavioural science, psychology, etc
$4808, economics and business, maths, computing, health,engineering,
science, surveying, agriculture $6849, law, dentistry, medicine,
veterinary science $8018.
The Commonwealth does not contribute towards the cost of the education
of fee paying students, so the student has to pay more for a fee paying
place than for a Commonwealth supported place. In 2005, annual fees
will range from $15,120 for arts to $29,520 for veterinary science
(fees are subject to adjustment annually). The annual cost for most
courses is under $20,000.
http://www.usyd.edu.au/fstudent/careers/communicate/aug04/fees.shtml
Mark Addinall
"JD" <_antip...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:1128594768.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Mark Addinall wrote:
>
>> I see this young chap is a bit upset at a $13,000 student debt.
>> In Australia, you can add a zero onto that for a decent degree
>> from a good Uni. Many of our students ar starting
>> life with a $100,000 - $200,000 debt.
>
> Crap.
Yes you are you dumb fucking bastard. Now you and pot-plant have
been re-aquainted after your time "no no, not in the slammer" I suggest
both of you she-males take a room.
---
Saturday October 1, 03:00 PM
Students bearing $13b HECS burden: report
The Federal Opposition has attacked the Government over a report that shows
the accumulated HECS debt of Australian university graduates is more than
$13 billion.
The Federal Government's Higher Education Report 2004-5 was tabled in
Parliament yesterday afternoon.
Labor's education spokeswoman Jenny Macklin says it shows since the
Government was elected in 1996, the accumulated HECS debt has increased from
$4 billion to $13 billion.
"What it shows is there has been over a 100 per cent increase in university
fees and students as a result of that are carrying enormous HECS debt, it's
making it harder and harder for young people to buy a home and we already
have evidence that young people are delaying starting their families because
of this very high level of HECS debt," she said.
Ms Macklin says it shows a big increase in the revenue universities get from
students.
"More than 60 university degrees are now costing more than $100,000 for
Australian university students and we also know that HECS also has gone up
on average by more than 100 per cent," she said.
---
And you're an officer in the Australian Army? It beggars belief.
See if you can find a Private that doesn't mind teaching you how to read and
count.
Mark Addinall.
JD
> "JD" <_antip...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:1128594768.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>Mark Addinall wrote:
>>
>>>I see this young chap is a bit upset at a $13,000 student debt.
>>>In Australia, you can add a zero onto that for a decent degree
>>>from a good Uni. Many of our students ar starting
>>>life with a $100,000 - $200,000 debt.
>>
>>Crap.
>
> Yes you are you dumb fucking bastard. Now you and pot-plant have
> been re-aquainted after your time "no no, not in the slammer" I suggest
> both of you she-males take a room.
Mark Addled, a pathetic usenet blowhard who has repeatedly had his lies
exposed and demolished pathologically returns for more. Just because you
regularly assert the same lies doesn't make them true.
> Saturday October 1, 03:00 PM
>
> Students bearing $13b HECS burden: report
Since Addled is too lazy:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200510/s1472593.htm
> "More than 60 university degrees are now costing more than $100,000 for
> Australian university students and we also know that HECS also has gone up
> on average by more than 100 per cent," she said.
Typical fallacy from the ALP, discussing two different aspects in the
same sentence. Those university degrees 'costing more than $100,000' are
those for fee paying students, as I've already explained.
A media statement from Jenny Macklin on 2005-02-28 states 'The price
hikes mean that many university students will be paying $20,000 for a
science degree, $40,000 for a law degree and nearly $15,000 for an arts
degree.' http://www.alp.org.au/media/0205/msedu281.php
> And you're an officer in the Australian Army? It beggars belief.
>
> See if you can find a Private that doesn't mind teaching you how to read and
> count.
The above would explain why I was an Officer, and you were a private.
--
"At least we went out and played in that first half. And what have
France done? They've won with kicks from the 10-metre line. It's
bitterly frustrating." - Andy Robinson
H Dickmann
"Mark Addinall" <addi...@addinall.org> wrote in message
news:2981f.8881$U51...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
repaying the HECS debt.
Mark Addinall
"JD" <_antip...@ubique.com> wrote in message
news:v391f.8968$U51....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Ha! How are you doing now HOFFICOR?
It's a little bit of a shame when you brain-dead types get
ushured out of your sheltered workshop. "But I must be clever,
I are an hofficor". Well, suck it in dimwit, out here in civvie
street you have to make it on merit. How's unemployment treating
you?
And I don't believe you held a commission in the Regular Army, no
name, no unit, no fucking brains.
Mark Addinall.
JD
>
> Ha! How are you doing now HOFFICOR?
What actually amuses me about morons like you is that despite getting
your arse handed to you every time you post bullshit, you simply ignore
it as if it never happened. If nothing else, at least dogged
determination has got you through.
> It's a little bit of a shame when you brain-dead types get
> ushured out of your sheltered workshop. "But I must be clever,
> I are an hofficor". Well, suck it in dimwit, out here in civvie
> street you have to make it on merit. How's unemployment treating
> you?
How many time do I have to mention you using transference as a coping
mechanism until you seek professional help?
> And I don't believe you held a commission in the Regular Army,
Like I'd give a flying fuck what a lying loser like you thinks.
Kerry
"Mark Addinall" <addi...@addinall.org> wrote:
> "Kerry" <ker...@iiiihug.co.invalid> wrote in message
> > Opportunity is one thing. Saying you are leaving because you a) don't
> > want to repay your student loan b) don't agree with student loans (would
> > you rather have paid it all or higher fees and loans as in Australia?)
>
>
> I have been following this thread with some interest and amusement.
> One very brand new mate of mine turned up from Kiwiland. A contractor
> on about the same sort of wicket as myself. When I started to explain the
> tax structures, rates, plus GST, plus super, the BAS reports, accounting,
> FBT etc, his mouth opened a little in suprise!
>
> I see this young chap is a bit upset at a $13,000 student debt.
> In Australia, you can add a zero onto that for a decent degree
> from a good Uni. Many of our students ar starting
> life with a $100,000 - $200,000 debt.
>
> Mark Addinall.
i know, I know. Wouldn't want to take away the young chaps hope though.
There is more opportunity in Aus, but its not paradise, ad it costs more
to live there.
John B
And you can earn much more money too. More opprotunities. Better
lifestyle. Better climate. Better beaches. Better everything for
a go-ahead person.
You are an ass, Kerry. A mean-spirited dishonest disningenuous
spiteful ass.
--Newsman--
<glitc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On 6/10/2005 10:02:47 a.m., Kerry wrote:
>>In article <43443b2b...@news.actrix.co.nz>,
>> sla...@hotmail.com (--Newsman--) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> He would be working in a higher value economy with a vastly greater
>>> range of opportunities. Because of these two factors his prospects are
>>> immeasurably greater than in New Zealand.
>>>
>>> One thing he *will* certainly notice, and which will help to broaden
>>> his outlook, is that he'll feel more - and better - connected with the
>>> rest of the world.
>>
>>That may be the case
Know for sure that it *is* the case, and increasingly so in New
Zealand.
The globalisation of trade and industry has seen the switch-blade
levering of world economic policies and increasing economic power
falling into fewer and fewer hands.
By comparison with the big boys, New Zealand has little if any
effective economic self-determination. In fact it has been referred to
- more than once - as a branch economy of the international
corporates. In less than 10 years I've seen the centres of business
decision-making rapidly migrating from atround the country to Auckland
and then, not long after, offshore to cities like Sydney and well
beyond.
The outcomes of all this are obvious. The skills must vanish offshore
with those same disappearing companies which then - and note this well
- beckon to young and well-educated kiwis to follow them. Hence the
attrition of locally retained skills you're now seeing for yourselves.
The critical mass is being destroyed and can only diminish further.
The siren call to overseas experiences is as persistent as it is
irresistible and it will remain that way for as long as young people
gain ever more knowledge of the increasing dynamics of the bigger,
broader economies overseas and the huge and expanding range of
challenges "out there" that are worth going for.
No amount of parochial and bitter moralising over the repayment of
student loans, nor whinging "debt to society" injunctions, nor the
pointlessly frantic publishing of comparative salary/cost figures for
New Zealand and Australia is going to change anything.
It's all about following the career path and following the money that
goes with it.
If New Zealand can't provide these, then New Zealanders who remain
behind doggedly scraping a living from their hopelessly under-invested
low-value economy, can do no other than suck on it.
Because the genie's well and truly out of the bottle.
Brian Dooley
wrote:
>
>"Kerry" <ker...@iiiihug.co.invalid> wrote in message
>news:kerryd-5DDC41....@news.xtra.co.nz...
>
>Snip
>
>> Unless you have some secret, and 23 year olds are paid significantly
>> more in Aus, you are wrong to say you will pay less tax there.
>>
>Lol
>Don't tell 'em anything - get rid of em.
>We need people who don't mind WORK, and who don't feel that the world owes
>23yo's a living.
When he gets into the real world he will find that what he owes
on his student loan is fuck-all - you can't buy a half-way decent
car for that.
He's in for a shock when he tries to buy a house.
--
Brian Dooley
Wellington New Zealand
Brian Dooley
<glitc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On 6/10/2005 9:56:44 a.m., "Dave" wrote:
>>
>>"Kerry" <ker...@iiiihug.co.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:kerryd-5DDC41....@news.xtra.co.nz...
>>
>>Snip
>>
>>> Unless you have some secret, and 23 year olds are paid significantly
>>> more in Aus, you are wrong to say you will pay less tax there.
>>>
>>Lol
>>Don't tell 'em anything - get rid of em.
>>We need people who don't mind WORK, and who don't feel that the world owes
>>23yo's a living.
>T'is that attitude that wqill make New Zealand nothing but a bunch of Over
>60's Baby boombers suckling the economy dry within 20 years. I was not
>complaining about work, I'm pissed of with how my money is spent.
Have you actually earned any yet?
Brian Dooley
Do you by any chance mean 'populace'?
>So because student loan interest for those who are going to stay and
>work in this country is being removed, you are planning on leaving the
>terrible country? A real intellectual, I can tell
What kind of mistake is 'populus' for 'populace'?
It isn't a spelling mistake - perhaps it's a mistake mistake.
Brian Dooley
<grumpy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Glitch
>>
>>
>> I am currently looking at moving to aussie, now that the election result has
>> come in - and its for a very simple reason. I am 23 year old single male and
>> have $13,000 student debt. I work 60 hours a week and the government collects
>> 49 percent of my earnings. in other words I am working over 29 hours a week
>> to feed the mouths of children people have to get tax cuts. In australia I
>> will get paid more and taxed less. I will also be able to scrap my loan all
>> together. I would actually be able to save up and secure my future rather
>> than rely on Aunty Helen to decide whats good for me. Why would I stay here?
>
> Well,you are not a great little bludger,the NZ taxpayer paid the
>majority of the cost of your education,but you seem to be moaning over a
>small sum of $13000.
>
>
>Bloody wonderful,while you are at varsity you want high taxes to pay for
>your education,once you leave, you complain.
>
>Christ,reason and logic must be lacking at varsity today.
>
>What sort of wimp are you,sixty hours a week,so what,a hell of a lot
>of people work those hours.
>
>Why did you not,piss off to australia,straight out of high school
>at your age you are owed, fuck all.
I wouldn't mind if the stated reason was to get out and take on
the big wide world, as thousands have done before, but to moan
about the money as an excuse just shows that we have a right
little Tory here.
--Newsman--
LOL!
"Gosh what a great education that was" - Kerry, who's only too ready
to put down others, but can't take it herself as this thread amply
demonstrates.
Halcyon
educate its citizen's and they then come to Oz to let us use their
talents.I wish Helen Clark many more years of government!
Halcyon
Brian Dooley
wrote:
That is thepenalty we have to pay for being a small place, but
with few Ockers - and those we do have are for the most part at
least semi-civilized.