Freedom of speech....
dersu
....but only if you say what the PC mob want to hear!!
D.
-------------------------
Race inquiry into lecturer who says blacks are less intelligent
By Liz Lightfoot, Education Correspondent
(Filed: 07/03/2006)
The Commission for Racial Equality has stepped into a row over a university
lecturer who claims that black people are, on average, less intelligent than
whites.
Students at Leeds University have called for Dr Frank Ellis to be sacked.
But the university says academics have the right to their personal opinions.
It will not act unless the students produce evidence of prejudicial
treatment, which they have not alleged.
The commission responded last night by demanding an inquiry into whether the
lecturer's views had affected his assessment of students.
Dr Ellis, an expert in Russian literature in the department of modern
languages and culture, told a student newspaper that he was a supporter of
the late Enoch Powell, the Conservative MP who warned that immigration would
lead to "rivers of blood". Dr Ellis also said he would support repatriation
if it were done "humanely".
He told the Leeds Student that the British National Party was useful as "a
canary" to warn the Government of views on multi-culturalism, which was
doomed to failure because "it is based on the lie that all people, races and
cultures are equal and that no one race or culture is better than any
other".
The student union said it was horrified by Dr Ellis's views. Students are
threatening to picket his lectures unless the university "takes all
necessary action to remove him".
It said: "We are extremely concerned that students from ethnic minorities,
who he claims are inferior, could face discrimination from Dr Ellis's
presence on campus."
Dr Ellis said yesterday that while free speech was an issue, so was the
question of whether it was true that some races were less intelligent than
others for genetic and not environmental reasons.
"The people who want to denounce the evidence as racist or fascist or
whatever the latest 'ism' is are trying to stop people considering the
argument because they don't want it discussed," he said.
It is not the first time that Dr Ellis has been at the centre of a row. In
March 2000 he attended a conference of far-Right groups in the United States
where he attacked the findings of the inquiry into the death of Stephen
Lawrence, the black teenager murdered on the streets of London in what the
police treated as a racist attack.
He was also criticised for an article on the internet in which he states:
"It is considered politically incorrect to say so, but were one to take the
'white' and the 'male' out of science and technology, one would have no
science, just witchcraft, third world squalor, misery and
mega-incompetence."
Dr Ellis said he stood by the statement. He denied that his views amounted
to racism, saying they were based on scientific evidence.
The university issued a statement saying the views expressed by Dr Ellis in
the student paper were "abhorrent".
But it added: "Dr Ellis has a right to his personal opinions but he does not
have the right to treat students or colleagues in a prejudicial or
discriminatory manner. The university has no evidence yet that this has
happened."
A spokesman for the Commission for Racial Equality said public bodies were
under a duty to promote good relations between people of different racial
groups, to promote equality of opportunity between those groups and to
eliminate unlawful racial discrimination.
David
This is an old hoary chestnut...
Dr Ellis has every right to do his reasearch and to issue conclusions
based on the parameters he himself has set around his study.
I guess if research was based on popularity, then new ideas would
not come forward.
The idea that some races are less intelligent than others is not new.
It is not correct either.
-D
"dersu" <de...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:440d...@clear.net.nz...
ChristianKnight
The Idea that the skin colour determines brain activity is extrordinary.
Maybe the Doctor should seek volunteers and conduct a properly controled
scientific experiment.
Blacks have equal brain activity they simply tend to focus on dark forces
and a dark direction, My proof is crime statistics and disease spreading.
Christ's love
kiwigal
dersu wrote:
Hehehe Dr Ellis is encroaching on sacred grounds. He's not allowed to
use facts and figures to do anything but patronise the poor minorities.
Minorities are better off facing commentary from a man like Ellis than
the suffocating attitudes currently in vogue. Ellis' comments at least
have the effect of galvanising people into action. Patronising
attitudes towards minorities seem to lull the people to sleep.
Annemarie
"David" <gos...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
news:dujh9r$u8a$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>I thought academics were supposed to do cutting edge research...
>
> This is an old hoary chestnut...
>
> Dr Ellis has every right to do his reasearch and to issue conclusions
> based on the parameters he himself has set around his study.
>
> I guess if research was based on popularity, then new ideas would
> not come forward.
>
> The idea that some races are less intelligent than others is not new.
> It is not correct either.
>
> -D
>
his theory.
Roger Dewhurst
>
> The idea that some races are less intelligent than others is not new.
Founded in the observations of many.
> It is not correct either.
That is simply a PC view without any basis in evidence or common sense.
R
Annemarie
"Roger Dewhurst" <dewh...@wave.co.nz> wrote in message
news:duko25$4of$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
wing view without any basis in evidence or common sense.
Roger Dewhurst
"Annemarie" <a...@bbb.com> wrote in message
news:awlPf.4613$JZ1.1...@news.xtra.co.nz...
Can you name a single significant invention by a sub-Saharan black or a
melanesian?
The human sub-species now extant are believed to have had their roots in
Africa. The sub-species that chose to remain in Africa had as much
opportunity to develop a culture, invent things and make a contribution to
technology, medicine etc etc. But they did not. Common sense suggests that
they were not as smart as those who moved away.
R
>
>
Roger Dewhurst
> news:duko25$4of$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Here is a pretty well informed summary of our ancestry from an academic in
the UK:
"South Asians are basically just a pigment phase of the same subspecies
of Homo sapiens as Europeans. They're not even really a different race.
East Asians are a different subspecies (mongoloids). Mongoloids have
lower verbal and logical reasoning ability than caucasoids but higher
visuo-spatial and numerical ability. This is almost certainly racial
rather than cultural since the pattern has even been found in people
such as Inuit who have scarcely any cultural similarity whatsoever to,
for example, Chinese. Personally I don't go with the east asians are
smarter than caucasians thing since it carries some unrealistic (IMO)
assumptions about the nature of cognition. Mongoloids just happen to
have a better specialisation in areas that have tests available with a
stronger little g correlation, but that doesn't make them smarter per
se, it just means that current IQ tests flatter them. There is also
some element of value judgement. Caucasian and East Asian minds work
slightly differently on average but we can find cognitive tasks for
which either can outperform the other on average and vice versa.
Caucasoids and Mongoloids both derive from colder climate adaptations
of the Capoid related Australoid* group. They expanded and swamped
other subspecies types after expansions related to the adoption of
agriculture. Congoids in contrast are more directly derived from the
older Capoids in Africa and are much more distantly related to either
Caucasoids and Mongoloids than Caucasoids and Mongoloids are to each
other.
All Caucasoids are most probably of European origin, though there is an
outside possibility that the Caucasoid urheimat was in North Africa.
Cro-Magnons were prototypical Caucasoids. The caucasoids of India are
post-agricultural settlers and Australoid remnant populations still
remain there to this day.
Congoids average lower IQs than either Caucasoids or Mongoloids but are
probably smarter than both Capoids and Australoids. They appear to have
reached the Neolithic unaided, possibly even the early metal ages, but
much more recently than either Caucasoids or Mongoloids.
*Australoid literally means "southern race" since they inhabited
southern Eurasia close to the equator, before their northern neighbours
swamped them after adopting agriculture. Arguably "Australoid"
describes a complex of different subspecies rather than a single
subspecies.
Allistar
Or that environmental factors had a part to play. If you live in harsh
environments you're more likely to try and find ways of making your life
easier - hence inventing things. Also the availability of resources would
have a bearing too - living in a desert is probably not going to result in
as many inventions as living in lush fields with a lot of natural
resources.
> R
Allistar.
Roger Dewhurst
"Allistar" <a...@b.com> wrote in message news:440e...@clear.net.nz...
> Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>
> >
> > "Annemarie" <a...@bbb.com> wrote in message
> > news:awlPf.4613$JZ1.1...@news.xtra.co.nz...
> >>
> >> "Roger Dewhurst" <dewh...@wave.co.nz> wrote in message
> >> news:duko25$4of$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> >> >
> > right
> >> wing view without any basis in evidence or common sense.
> >
> > Can you name a single significant invention by a sub-Saharan black or a
> > melanesian?
> >
> > The human sub-species now extant are believed to have had their roots in
> > Africa. The sub-species that chose to remain in Africa had as much
> > opportunity to develop a culture, invent things and make a contribution
to
> > technology, medicine etc etc. But they did not. Common sense suggests
> > that they were not as smart as those who moved away.
>
> Or that environmental factors had a part to play. If you live in harsh
> environments you're more likely to try and find ways of making your life
> easier - hence inventing things.
So natural selection operated on those who moved to harsher climates. The
smarter survived better than the not-so-smart.
>Also the availability of resources would
> have a bearing too - living in a desert is probably not going to result in
> as many inventions as living in lush fields with a lot of natural
> resources.
Sub-Saharan Africa has very significant mineral resources which the blacks
could have used but did not. There is more than enough for the industrial
revolution to have commenced there. But industrial revolutions are not
brought about by people with IQs in the 60s.
R
Matty F
> Sub-Saharan Africa has very significant mineral resources which the blacks
> could have used but did not. There is more than enough for the industrial
> revolution to have commenced there. But industrial revolutions are not
> brought about by people with IQs in the 60s.
Why did it take the Europeans so long to make their scientific
discoveries and inventions then? That ability could be more to do
with how easy it was to override the objections of religious
leaders or of those with a stake in the old way of doing things.
There were some impressive buildings in early Africa, long before
the great cathedrals of Europe were built, some of them crashing
on their congregations because of the idiocy of their architects.
Roger Dewhurst
"Matty F" <ma...@INVALIDflebus.nz> wrote in message
news:agqPf.4674$JZ1.1...@news.xtra.co.nz...
> Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>
> > Sub-Saharan Africa has very significant mineral resources which the
blacks
> > could have used but did not. There is more than enough for the
industrial
> > revolution to have commenced there. But industrial revolutions are not
> > brought about by people with IQs in the 60s.
>
> Why did it take the Europeans so long to make their scientific
> discoveries and inventions then?
How long do you think it took before the mongoloids and caucasoids were well
ahead of the sub-Saharan blacks?
That ability could be more to do
> with how easy it was to override the objections of religious
> leaders or of those with a stake in the old way of doing things.
You are just looking for excuses.
R
Barry Phease
> I thought academics were supposed to do cutting edge research...
>
> This is an old hoary chestnut...
>
> Dr Ellis has every right to do his reasearch and to issue conclusions
> based on the parameters he himself has set around his study.
So if geographers were issuing public statements that the earth is flat,
they should continue to be allowed to teach?
--
Barry Phease
John B
"Barry Phease" <bar...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.03.08...@es.co.nz...
> So if geographers were issuing public statements that the earth
> is flat,
> they should continue to be allowed to teach?
You have politicians teaching worse things than that. Should they
continue to be allowed to be politicians?
Roger Dewhurst
>
> > I thought academics were supposed to do cutting edge research...
> >
> > This is an old hoary chestnut...
> >
> > Dr Ellis has every right to do his reasearch and to issue conclusions
> > based on the parameters he himself has set around his study.
>
> So if geographers were issuing public statements that the earth is flat,
> they should continue to be allowed to teach?
The earth is not flat and Ellis was commenting outside his special
expertise.
R
David
I sometimes wonder when I see Asian kids doing so well- Both Indian and
Chinese.
Is it genetic or is the family culture?
Also i see in the animal world- e.g. Berkshire pigs, Alsatian dogs, Romney
sheep
and see how adapted these breeds are to their environment. You could not
breed merinos
on the lowlands for example.
it makes me think that different breeds, or races of people can be adapted
to some
environments. But one lot being superior to another overall- nah.
>
>
David
>
>> I thought academics were supposed to do cutting edge research...
>>
>> This is an old hoary chestnut...
>>
>> Dr Ellis has every right to do his reasearch and to issue conclusions
>> based on the parameters he himself has set around his study.
>
> So if geographers were issuing public statements that the earth is flat,
> they should continue to be allowed to teach?
it would depend on the rest of their portfolio.
but the earth isn't round either...
dersu
>>
> Well the theory that blacks are dumber than whites is just an extreme
> right wing view without any basis in evidence or common sense.
Not lived in Africa eh, Annemarie?
D.
Allistar
>
> "Allistar" <a...@b.com> wrote in message news:440e...@clear.net.nz...
>> Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > "Annemarie" <a...@bbb.com> wrote in message
>> > news:awlPf.4613$JZ1.1...@news.xtra.co.nz...
>> >>
>> >> "Roger Dewhurst" <dewh...@wave.co.nz> wrote in message
>> >> news:duko25$4of$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>> >> >
>> >> Well the theory that blacks are dumber than whites is just an extreme
>> > right
>> >> wing view without any basis in evidence or common sense.
>> >
>> > Can you name a single significant invention by a sub-Saharan black or a
>> > melanesian?
>> >
>> > The human sub-species now extant are believed to have had their roots
>> > in
>> > Africa. The sub-species that chose to remain in Africa had as much
>> > opportunity to develop a culture, invent things and make a contribution
> to
>> > technology, medicine etc etc. But they did not. Common sense suggests
>> > that they were not as smart as those who moved away.
>>
>> Or that environmental factors had a part to play. If you live in harsh
>> environments you're more likely to try and find ways of making your life
>> easier - hence inventing things.
>
> So natural selection operated on those who moved to harsher climates. The
> smarter survived better than the not-so-smart.
That's not what I'm suggesting - I'm suggesting that in harsher climates the
need arose to become creative with the surroundings. Regardless of the
intellectual capacity of the two communities, one community has a stringer
need to be more resourceful.
>>Also the availability of resources would
>> have a bearing too - living in a desert is probably not going to result
>> in as many inventions as living in lush fields with a lot of natural
>> resources.
>
> Sub-Saharan Africa has very significant mineral resources which the blacks
> could have used but did not.
Because of the lack of need?
> There is more than enough for the industrial
> revolution to have commenced there. But industrial revolutions are not
> brought about by people with IQs in the 60s.
Do you have a cite for that IQ? And how does anyone know the IQ of a people
well before the IQ test was even invented? It's a meaningless (and
imagined) figure in this context.
> R
Allistar.
Roger Dewhurst
"Allistar" <a...@b.com> wrote in message news:440e8449$1...@clear.net.nz...
That sounds a bit like Lysenko. Have you heard of him?
>
> >>Also the availability of resources would
> >> have a bearing too - living in a desert is probably not going to result
> >> in as many inventions as living in lush fields with a lot of natural
> >> resources.
> >
> > Sub-Saharan Africa has very significant mineral resources which the
blacks
> > could have used but did not.
>
> Because of the lack of need?
Need of what? Brains? I will go along with that. They did not need them
and thus there was no selective pressure.
>
> > There is more than enough for the industrial
> > revolution to have commenced there. But industrial revolutions are not
> > brought about by people with IQs in the 60s.
>
> Do you have a cite for that IQ? And how does anyone know the IQ of a
people
> well before the IQ test was even invented? It's a meaningless (and
> imagined) figure in this context.
There is plenty of data available on the IQs of various groups of people.
Do your own search. If the average IQs of sub-Saharan africans are in the
60s now it is very unlikely that they were any higher half a million years
ago. That does not need a cite, it just needs a little commonsense.
R
Riff
black or a
>>>>melanesian?
>>>>"
World civilization, culture, technology and science began in the hot,
humid regions of the earth where Blacks lived and have lived for
hundreds of thousands of years. The roots of today's science and
technology begun in ancient regions controlled and settled by Blacks.
The roots of "Western" civilization, culture, science, technology and
religion was not Greece, but in Black Egypt and Nubia-Kush. Moreover, Blacks
ruled Greece for thousands of years before the Dorians invaded Greece
from northern Eurasia., and before the Greeks emerged as a people.
From as early as 10,000 B.C. to 1500 A.D., Blacks were in the forefront
in the development of
science, culture and technology. Black empires and civilizations from
the prehistoric Zingh Empire of 15,000 B.C. which was situated in Mauritania
to to ancient Khemet (Egypt) and Nubia-Kush, which existed about 17,000
years ago, experimented in various aspects of science and technology.
Some of these sciences and technologies were so advanced that stories of
flying machines and the invention of advanced machines has been passed
down through ancient writings. Later Black civilizations such as Khem
and Mali experimented and created various sciences and technologies such
as the chemical and mystry sciences of ancient Khemet to the surgical
sciences of Mali, in West Africa. As early as about 400 B.C., a Black
Pharaoh named Pi Di
Amen built a model glider to conduct experiments in flight. Centuries
before, the Black Egyptians had alread invented gunpowder for use in their
temples and mystry schools.
The Dogon of Mali were and still are the world's most efficient
astronomers even without the use of a single telescope!!! They charted
the Sius star system before anyone with their high tech telescopes were
able to see the invisible stars and celestial bodies they tracked
accurately for centuries. Certain tribes related to the Dogon still
specialize in astronomy and star charting. Other Africans are experts at
fortelling the weather by reading the stars.
The mathematical and astronomical sciences necessary for high
technologies such as those used in space technology and industries were
first began by Blacks in Khem (Egypt) and Kush (Sudan). These sciences
and high technologies were then passed on to the Sumerians, Babylonians,
Elamites (all originally Black civilization), Greeks, Hebrews, Romans
and Arabs In fact, it was the Black Sabeans of South Arabia, members of
the Kushitic branch of the Black African race who established the first
civilization in the Arabian Peninsula...thousands of years before the
emergence of the Bedouin Arabs.
Blacks built the greatest and largest monuments known to humans during
ancient times. They took on massive works of building and engineering in
an area from the prehistoric Zingh Empire of Mauritania and the Sahara
(1500 B.C.) to the Nile Corridor and Sudan to Mesopotamia all the way to
the Black Shia and Shang Dynasty China.
Black medicinal sciences began in Khemet
(ancient Black Egypt) and led to later Greek medicinal sciences. These
ancient African sciences were copied by the Greeks and others from the
ancient Papyrus texts composed by the ancient Khemites and Nubians.
Religious philophies began by blacks were copied by Europeans, Semites
and others. Black Gods such as Amun became the appolo of the Greeks.
Black religious founders such as Buddha and virgin types such as the
Black Madonnas are testimony to the origins of these religions today.
All aspects of advanced culture later copied by Asiatics or Europeans
were begun by the ancient Blacks of Egypt, Nubia and India. Blacks had
passed the peak of civilization when the Greeks, Hyksos and others
invaded and occupied the homelands or blacks, or infiltrated and
introduced their religoius philosophers in a form of pyschological
warfare and brainwashing.
The ancient civilizations of Blacks included Nubia-Kush, Egypt, Sumer,
Elam, Canaan, and others...all except Nubia Kush were invaded by
barbarians from the north during these Black kingdoms periods of
weakness. Only Nubia-Kush remained powerful until the 1500's when Arab
invaders infiltraded and began enslaving blacks. These invaders are
still there today.
It is from these and other ancient Black civilizations that the
barbarian wanders learned civilization. Not from the nomadic lifestyle,
pastoralism and harsh wilderness lifestyles of Eurasia or the Arabian
deserts.
Black intellectual and material development led to the development of
the Bedouin Arabs during the 600's A.D. For thousands of years before,
the Black Kushite Arabians (see Wonderful Ethiopians of the Ancient
Kushite Empire, by Drusilla D. Huston, Black Classics Press, Baltimore,
Md. 1985), led the intellectual and material advancement of Arabian
civilization including during the Middle Ages and during the Occupation
of Southern Europe, Spain and Portu-
gal.
At the same time, the Bedouin Arabs...or Semites were undertaking a
policy of invasion of Black civilizations and the enslavement and
violation of Black people. The Arabs were also beneficiaries of
Byzantium civilization which was influenced by Rome, Greece and
originally by Black Egypt.
From about 711 A.D. when the Moors, a Black people from Senegal, West
Africa and Morocco, invaded Europe. they introduced science, technology,
Black Moorish civillization and education to Europe and raised the
Europeans from the Dark Ages of about 400 A.D. to 711 A.D.,
The Black Moors introduced advanced learning to Spain, similar to what
had been taking place in Ghana, and at the university city of Jenne in Mali
for hundreds of years. They introduced advanced learning to the cities
of Toledo, Seville and Cordoba. These cities became centers of Black
Moorish and European scholarship, science and culture, where Europeans
and others learned new and advanced sciences, arts and technologies.
That led to the European Renaissance of later years. The Black Moors
introducced art, architecture, sciences, medicines, animal husbandry and
other advanced disciplines to Spain and the rest of Europe. This was the
cata-
lyst which led to the European Renaissance.
Do I need to go on?
type in "History" in google maybe
cheers
riff
Roger Dewhurst
"Riff" <Ri...@notmail.com> wrote in message news:4423...@clear.net.nz...
> Allistar wrote:
> > Roger Dewhurst wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"Allistar" <a...@b.com> wrote in message news:440e...@clear.net.nz...
> >>
> >>>Roger Dewhurst wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>"Annemarie" <a...@bbb.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:awlPf.4613$JZ1.1...@news.xtra.co.nz...
> >>>>
> >>>>>"Roger Dewhurst" <dewh...@wave.co.nz> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:duko25$4of$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
You have produced a long list of people who are not sub-Saharan blacks!
R