Iceland government to poll citizens
hellicopter
Two billion owed to foreign bankers! You can't blame the
Icelanders for question why they should pay out for the
few who sold them out to the global neo-liberal economic
experiment.
Would we being given such a chance if out government
has lost money in the collapse. Thankfully our government
has so poorly managed the neo-liberal experiment that
they offshored all the debt leveraging into foreign
owned key kiwi enterprises (based here but own by
foreign investors!).
So the heavier they are the further they fall. It
would also indicate why National is having such trouble
kicking the neo-liberals out. Well they not only
bankrolled the National party but they also are
now sitting on a pile of debt! and would hate to lose
the cash kiwi cow!
But anyway, had we been offered a vote now would we
be able to act dumb. Icelanders trusted their government
deregulation. They trusted that letting the tory boy
run around selling stuff that someone was supposed to watch
the aberrant little spronge so he didn't sell off or expose
anything serious to the sales yard.
Can we trust National to clean up and put the neo-liberal
experiment to sleep? I'm think euthanasia rather than
a night spell in a warm bed.
The National Media fail to stress how most of our
headache debt is housed in private hands, but quite willing
to tell us how bad ACC, etc are running. Sorry, but that
is wrong, bad reporting designed to give government room
to, once again, fail to contain big business adventurism.
Its a national security risk to have a few capable of
destroying our economy, more so since they are foreigners.
peterwn
> Two billion owed to foreign bankers! You can't blame the
> Icelanders for question why they should pay out for the
> few who sold them out to the global neo-liberal economic
> experiment.
>
> Would we being given such a chance if out government
> has lost money in the collapse.
A cite such as:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jan/06/iceland-icesave-vote-on-repayment
would have been useful.
The assumption here is that Iceland can tell its lenders where it can
stick its loans and it is then 'business as usual'. The reality would
be quite different, the whole nation would need to batten down its
financial hatches to eke out enough hard cash (gold, USD's, Euros) to
pay for its imports. Passage of time may effectively 'forgive' the
debts after 10 to 20 years. In the meantime its citizens may become
sick and tired of a big drop in living standard for a decade or so.
The politicians who do not want to repay may well sway the people to
vote against repayment by political rhetoric which glosses over the
consequences of no repayment. After three or four years, the people
may be after these politicians' guts.
There is limited sympathy where an overthrown tinpot dictator has
borrowed heavily leaving a country in potential ruin, but this does
not wash with democracies who similarly borrow heavily for consumption
or useless 'investments'.
If similar applied to NZ, the government may well hold a referendum if
there are sufficient bloody minded politicians (from minor parties or
floor crossers) who want to go down that path.
Tilly
news:6b2a2360-c553-44a2...@e37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
If they don't repay as promised Iceland will be unable to secure loans from
lending organisations including the IMF and they can forget becoming members
of the EU which they are seeking to do.
hellicopter
> On Jan 7, 4:51 am, hellicopter <stonesn...@kol.co.nz> wrote:
>> Two billion owed to foreign bankers! You can't blame the
>> Icelanders for question why they should pay out for the
>> few who sold them out to the global neo-liberal economic
>> experiment.
>>
>> Would we being given such a chance if out government
>> has lost money in the collapse.
>
> A cite such as:
>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jan/06/iceland-icesave-vote-on-repayment
> would have been useful.
>
> The assumption here is that Iceland can tell its lenders where it can
> stick its loans and it is then 'business as usual'. The reality would
> be quite different, the whole nation would need to batten down its
> financial hatches to eke out enough hard cash (gold, USD's, Euros) to
> pay for its imports. Passage of time may effectively 'forgive' the
> debts after 10 to 20 years. In the meantime its citizens may become
> sick and tired of a big drop in living standard for a decade or so.
I can't help think of China, and the way its people get by. Icelanders
don't need McDonalds, they've got enough to go back to the old times.
In fact the referendum maybe allowed because its a very real
acceptable prospect that Icelanders can live with.
Prosperity does not mean happiness so why would poverty mean
unhappiness. The question I feel maybe about sovereignty, they
need to square away the debts to get into the EU.
> The politicians who do not want to repay may well sway the people to
> vote against repayment by political rhetoric which glosses over the
> consequences of no repayment. After three or four years, the people
> may be after these politicians' guts.
Look unless they can get the Iceland police force, and army, to
enforce the sell off of Icelandlands fishing rights I don't see
where the stick will to force Iceland to take on the debt.
These were private banks after all.
>
> There is limited sympathy where an overthrown tinpot dictator has
> borrowed heavily leaving a country in potential ruin, but this does
> not wash with democracies who similarly borrow heavily for consumption
> or useless 'investments'.
You misunderstand. The people who got wealthy got out because they
knew what they were doing. We aren't bailing out the banks because
we want to, we just know more harm will come from it. Whereas
in Iceland more harm comes from EU membership or paying off the debt,
Iceland can do without a financial sector.
>
>
> If similar applied to NZ, the government may well hold a referendum if
> there are sufficient bloody minded politicians (from minor parties or
> floor crossers) who want to go down that path.
We are in a different boat. We open up our companies and banks to
foreigners who load them up with debt to leverage the debt. If
our banking system collapsed we'd all cheer and build another one.
When you make you money from sell stuff to others, like the Arabs,
you have power in the market place. American power was built on
the war export and then the peacetime consumerism. Germany is
a exporter of high quality machinery, why build your own just
buy Germans factory machines to make you stuff. Exporters usually
are smart enough to make their power go a long way. NZ however
seems just to give it away. But because we have we will not
be hurt when those companies burst, we will just build our own
replacement. There are countless small companies capable of
fast expansion and take any vacuum in the market place. That
is something we do well, we just don't grow any bigger because
the big companies are brought out by foreigners. Fonterra
is a co-op! Trying to turn itself into a debt ridden big corporate.
peterwn
>
> I can't help think of China, and the way its people get by.
Despite having a repressive totalitarian government. I remember when
Chinese Communism was the best thing since sliced bread amounf NZ
intellectuals, lefties, etc - far better than 'revisionist' USSR. The
Cultural Revolution should have been a massive wake-up call, but has
been rather conveniently forgotten.
hellicopter
The communist party feared for its existent and started the Cultural
Revolution. Its no different than when Christianity questioned the
purity of every person, forced jews, muslims, to convert, terrorized
communties, the Inquisition, etc. What's surprising is we still
have Christian churches! And that the Chinese Communists would not
initiate a new cultural revolution! but then 'conveniently forgetting'
might be attributed to another rational, that of understanding why
it won't happen again. China if you had notice has us by the balls,
they stop growing, they stop buying, our last peg holding up ours
and Aus economies is pulled out.
peterwn
>
> The communist party feared for its existent and started the Cultural
> Revolution.
Labour Party feared for its existence in power and passed the
Electoral Finance Act. Their President went to Melbourne to try and
get the dirt on John Key (unsuccessfully), also because they feared
for their existence.
The Chinese Communist Party would have also said 'Trust us' just like
Helen Clark implored electors to do in the run up to the last
election.
How hilarious.
hellicopter
> On Jan 8, 5:18 pm, hellicopter <stonesn...@kol.co.nz> wrote:
>
>>
>> The communist party feared for its existent and started the Cultural
>> Revolution.
>
> Labour Party feared for its existence in power and passed the
> Electoral Finance Act.
Yes, they started a fire that would hand Maori one more Maori
seat shifting the number of seats take power up, and so retained
power. ACT supporters responded by unilaterally running a
big brother campaign to destroy the Peters. Its called politics.
Labour got three more years, ACT got a seat at the beehive.
So frigging what? Once the trick has been done, it can't be
repeated because we are inoculated too it.
Now the Maori party helps to shift National to the left, and
ACT gets to rubbish itself, while the debt leveraging crashes
that ACTs supports, the world banking industry.
China will not repeat a cultural revolution, just as Catholics
won't repeat The Inquisition, when they start we all just jump
on them!
Labour and National will both continue to use urgency to
hold onto and abuse power. Its wrong and comes from removing
the upper chamber.
peterwn
> ACT supporters responded by unilaterally running a
> big brother campaign to destroy the Peters.
He destroyed himself.
hellicopter
What I saw was the same question being answered properly
and truthfully. Sure politicians are human and he did slip
up. But what I saw was an media turning the election and
forcing the arrival of a far right backed right of centre
coalition.
I know you don't care that they cost us billions in misapplied
investment into non-tradeable production, both Labour and National,
but really you have to start worry sometime don't you?
Labour into spending and National into mates pet financial pork.