Royal Marines, wimps ?
grumpyoldhori
And here we have a typical loud mouthed septic.
Remember how the US marines fought to the last man in
Tehran in 79,and were all slaughtered,no?.
Thats right,they surrendered real fast,this writer must have a
short memory.
Still if you need rooms full of women and children
cleared with grenades,you know who to call.
April 3, 2007 -- THE greatest shock from the Middle East this year hasn't
been terrorist ruthlessness or the latest Iranian tantrum. It's that
members of Britain's Royal Marines wimped out in a matter of days and
acquiesced in propaganda broadcasts for their captors.
Jingoism aside, I can't imagine any squad of U.S. Marines behaving in such a
shabby, cowardly fashion. Our Marines would have fought to begin with.
Taken captive by force, they would've resisted collaboration. To the last
man and woman.
You could put a U.S. Marine in a dungeon and knock out his teeth, but you
wouldn't knock out his pride in his country and the Corps. "Semper fi"
means something.
And our Aussie allies would be just as tough.
What on earth happened to the Royal Marines? They're members of what passes
for an elite unit. Has the Labor government's program to gut the U.K.
military - grounding planes, taking ships out of service and deactivating
army units - also ripped the courage from the breasts of those in uniform?
The female sailor who broke down first and begged for her government to
surrender was pathetic enough. But when Royal Marines started pleading for
tea and sympathy . . . Ma, say it ain't so!
Meanwhile, back at No. 10 "Downer" Street, British politicians are more
upset that President Bush described their sailors and Marines as "hostages"
than they are with the Iranians.
Okay, Lord Spanker and Lady Fanny - what exactly are those sailors and
Marines? Package tourists?
Naturally, the European Union has praised Britain's "restraint." We've now
got another synonym for cowardice.
I've always respected the Brits and quite liked those I worked with when in
uniform . . . but I'm starting to wonder if I bought into a legend. While
criticizing our military's approach to everything, the Brits made an utter
balls of it in Basra - now they're bailing out, claiming "Mission
accomplished!" (OK, they had a role model . . .) In Heaven, Winston
Churchill's puking up premium scotch.
The once-proud Brit military has collapsed to a sorry state when its Royal
Marines surrender without a fight, then apologize to their captors
(praising their gentle natures!) while criticizing their own country.
Pretty sad to think that the last real warriors fighting under the Union
Jack are soccer hooligans.
Of course, bravery isn't equally distributed. One or even two collaborators
might be explicable. But not all 15.
Yes, journalists and other civilian captives routinely make embarrassing
statements on videos, chiding their governments and begging to be swapped
for a battalion of mass murderers. One expects nothing better. But military
men and women in the English-speaking tradition historically maintained
high standards over long years in brutal captivity - and this hostage
situation has barely lasted long enough to microwave a bag of popcorn.
Think about Sen. John McCain with his broken limbs undergoing torture in
that Hanoi prison - and refusing an early chance to be repatriated because
he wouldn't leave his comrades behind. Think he'd do a Tokyo Rose for
Tehran?
The Iranians judged their victims well: The British boat crews didn't make
even a token effort at defending themselves. Now their boo-hoo-we-quit
government isn't defending them, either. Was Margaret Thatcher the last
real man in Britain?
The correct response to the seizure of 15 British military hostages - if not
released promptly - would've been to hit 15 Revolutionary Guards facilities
or vessels along the Iranian coast, then threaten to hit 30 deeper inland
the next day.
By hammering the now-degenerate Revolutionary Guards, the Coalition would've
strengthened the less-nutty and less-vicious regular military and
emboldened President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad's growing number of opponents
within the government. (It was telling that the Revolutionary Guards could
only muster about 200 demonstrators to harass the British embassy - it
didn't look much like 1979.)
Instead, we allowed the Iranian hardliners to humiliate a once-great
military and encourage hostage-takers everywhere.
At the very least, the British naval officer commanding in the zone of
operations and the vocal collaborators among the hostages should be
court-martialed. And the Royal Marine company to which those wankers belong
should be disbanded and stricken from the rolls.
John Bull has been cowed. By a pack of unshaven thugs. And the Britannia
that ruled the waves is waving goodbye.
FRAUDCASTING
SURGE WILL LAST AT LEAST 'TIL AUTUMN
U.S. RATTLING SABER IN GULF WAR GAME
IRAN IN TOO DEEP
WHERE'S WINSTON?
LIBS: LAWSUITS 1ST, SAFETY 2ND
BETRAYED
MORE
DATING
JOBS
AUTOS
REAL ESTATE
Sales or Rentals
Price Range
Location Manhattan Brooklyn Bronx
Queens Staten Island
Type All Apt Condo Co-op
House Loft Townhouse
--
grumpy
Geopelia
they still train today the way he did, they will be just as tough and
resourceful.
Perhaps they would have fought to the last man and woman, but had orders not
to do so. Britain's government might have been worried about an
international incident, like the War of Jenkins' Ear. They may also have
been given orders on what to do if captured.
Please don't insult them until the full story is known.
Geopelia
Brad Anton
"grumpyoldhori" <grumpy...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:ev2l43$kal$1...@news.datemas.de...
>
> And here we have a typical loud mouthed septic.
> Remember how the US marines fought to the last man in
> Tehran in 79,and were all slaughtered,no?.
> Thats right,they surrendered real fast,this writer must have a
> short memory.
> Still if you need rooms full of women and children
> cleared with grenades,you know who to call.
>
>
> April 3, 2007 -- THE greatest shock from the Middle East this year hasn't
> been terrorist ruthlessness or the latest Iranian tantrum. It's that
> members of Britain's Royal Marines wimped out in a matter of days and
> acquiesced in propaganda broadcasts for their captors.
>
> Jingoism aside, I can't imagine any squad of U.S. Marines behaving in such a
> shabby, cowardly fashion. Our Marines would have fought to begin with.
> Taken captive by force, they would've resisted collaboration. To the last
> man and woman.
>
>
Standard procedure Grumpy, say whatever they want you say, once ( and if ) you're allowed to go
home, you simply say it was all done under duress. Rapid release, smiles and handshakes with the
little Iranian chap, happy Easter.
Had they actually killed any of the pom sailors, it would've been a different story and the Iranians
( and the pom sailors ) knew this. I don't think the Brits would have missed such a golden
opportunity to be able to justify picking a fight with Iran. The result would have been
interesting - my money's on the poms.
Brad
Roger Dewhurst
"Geopelia" <phil...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ev2rma$d9v$1...@aioe.org...
I understand that the Rules of Engagement precluded them from shooting until
they were shot at. They were probably armed with sidearms while the
Iranians had machine guns.
The ships captain would have been in contact with Whitehall and doubtless
asked for permission to shoot. No doubt it was refused.
You may ask why the helicopter was not in the air and not permitted to shoot
either.
You may ask why the Iranian boats had not been picked up on the ship's radar
and the helicopter put up to see what they were.
I am inclined to think that the Iranian boats were picked up on the ship's
radar and or seen by the helicopter crew which reported them to the ship.
At that point I suspect the helicopter was ordered to return to the ship and
not to fire on the Iranians in any circumstances.
If that is the approximate sequence of events one can understand why the
boat crew might not have shown the usual loyalty.
R
>
>
Roger Dewhurst
"Brad Anton" <ant_o...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ev2v8g$343$1...@news-02.connect.com.au...
>
> "grumpyoldhori" <grumpy...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ev2l43$kal$1...@news.datemas.de...
> >
>
you're allowed to go
> home, you simply say it was all done under duress. Rapid release, smiles
and handshakes with the
> little Iranian chap, happy Easter.
> Had they actually killed any of the pom sailors, it would've been a
different story and the Iranians
> ( and the pom sailors ) knew this. I don't think the Brits would have
missed such a golden
> opportunity to be able to justify picking a fight with Iran. The result
would have been
> interesting - my money's on the poms.
I do not think so. bliar is not looking for a fight. He is looking to
downsize the British armed forces. The British armed forces know this and
are much demoralized.
R
Bj...@coolkiwi.com
this time with some quite graphic pics of US marines
and soldiers from other places
quite well done
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5I9RYnduSg
-Newsman-
Largely the officer class who are making one hell of stink, especially
the hoardes of seat-warming colonels. Last I heard from a retired
brigadier I know is that there are *at least* (sic) twice as many
colonels as there are regiments.
As for the dozens of superfluous admirals, many are usefully serving
as turnstile attendants at the various recreational boating lakes
around England.
whoisthis
grumpyoldhori
>
> What about those men and boys who are clearing roadways, markets etc
> of men, women and children?
> Don't they count in your gameplay too?
>>
So you are saying the US marines are another bunch
of insurgents,on a crusade.
Yep,it fits.
--
grumpy
dersu
> they still train today the way he did, they will be just as tough and
> resourceful.
>
Here's Richard Littlejohn on the release of the British seamen writing in
yesterdays Daily Mail.
D.
-----------------
Littlejohn: Imagine leaving Stalag 13 with a lucky bag and thanking Mr
Hitler
23:49pm 5th April 2007
They looked like a Vauxhall Conference football team being led out at
Wembley by Nora Batty before the final of the Leyland DAF trophy.
Fourteen men kitted out in ill-fitting suits from the local branch of John
Collier, John Collier, the window to watch, and a dumpy bird in a Les Dawson
headscarf.
They're coming home, they're coming home, they're coming. . .
Blink and it could have been the Guildford branch of the Manchester United
supporters' club arriving back at the airport, complaining about being
roughed up by the Italian riot police.
I'm sorry if this is going to upset some of you, but, unlike Ayatollah
I'madinnerjacket, this column takes no prisoners.
The international image of Britain as Churchillian bulldog has for ever been
replaced by this bunch of hapless stooges grinning and waving for the
cameras like contestants cosying up to Leslie Crowther in the final frames
of The Price Is Right.
Missing you, already. If the British Commonwealth and Empire lasts for a
thousand years, no one will ever claim this was their finest hour.
The game's up. Look, I don't blame the unfortunate human ingredients in this
pawn cocktail. They were only obeying orders - which, ludicrously, amount to
'surrender first and apologise later'.
The rules of engagement these days have been rinsed in so much fabric
softener that I'm astonished our troops are even allowed to carry weapons
any more.
Given Gordon Brown's inglorious record of starving the military of the
necessary readies, they were probably issued with broom handles and
instructed to shout 'Bang, Two, Three' in the face of the enemy, rather like
the Walmington-on-Sea Home Guard in 1940.
The hostages aren't to blame for this craven and humiliating episode in our
history. Despite Tony Blair's bellicose posturing on the international
stage, the reality is that the Army, Navy and Air Force are crippled by
underfunding and castrated by New Age 'diversity' policies.
Call me old-fashioned, but that young mother should never have been in the
front line. And now the hostages are home, their commanding officers should
be courtmartialed; whoever happens to be Defence Secretary this week should
be forced to resign; Margaret Beckett should be welded into her caravan and
pushed off Beachy Head; and the Prime Minister should not be allowed to
waltz off into the lucrative sunset of the American lecture circuit - he
should be charged with treason and shot.
Instead, Blair goes on television in full People's Princess mode and utters
pious platitudes about how he stood firm in the face of Iranian aggression.
As the late, great John Junor used to say: "Pass the sick bag, Alice."
If I hadn't paid a small fortune for my plasma screen to watch Spurs in
Europe, I'd have put my foot through it.
Let me reiterate, I don't hold the hostages responsible for what happened to
them, or how they responded while in captivity. They and thousands more like
them do a brave, thankless job on our behalf.
But I despair at what their ordeal and the response to it tells us about the
kind of country we have become.
After ten years of Tony Blair, Britain is now a neutered, international
laughing stock. The United Nations and our EU 'partners' hold us in
contempt.
The feminisation of our entire society has utterly destroyed whatever
credibility and moral fibre we ever had. The emotional incontinence which
flooded the country at the time Lady Di popped her Jimmy Choos is now our
stock in trade.
I wanted to retch when I saw the father of one of the captured marines
cuddling his wife and sobbing on live television in front of a tree
festooned with yellow ribbons.
Of course he's got every right to be upset, but he shouldn't be sharing it
with Sky News. His other son looked deeply embarrassed, as if a dog had just
peed up against his leg. It was the most skin-crawling moment I have seen
since The Mellorphant Man paraded his family in front of a five-bar gate.
And What about the outside broadcasts from assorted pubs around the country,
as various friends and relatives showed their solidarity by drinking
themselves senseless?
All that was missing was Nero and his Stradivarius.
The broadcast media covered the whole affair as if it were an episode of Big
Brother. Gormless women cackled away about the hostages in the same silly
psychobabble as they discuss 'relationship ishoos'.
One reporter actually moaned about having to give up his seat in business
class to make room for the returning heroes. This was hardly the last plane
out of Saigon.
The hostages were even given 'sweets and souvenirs' by their captors before
being sent on their way. Imagine leaving Stalag 13 with a Lucky Bag.
If you come across a miniature bronze statue of I'madinnerjacket and a
hand-tooled copy of the Koran as a job lot on eBay in a couple of years,
you'll know one of the hostages has fallen on hard times.
I'm delighted they are home safely, but as I wrote on Tuesday, God knows
what the generation who went through World War II would make of it. "We now
take you live to Colditz where Captain Pat Reid and a group of captured RAF
pilots are giving a press conference, thanking Herr Hitler for his
hospitality and apologising for trespassing in German airspace."
Makes you proud to be British, doesn't it?
--------------------------------------
Geopelia
"dersu" <de...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:4616...@clear.net.nz...
>
> "Geopelia" <phil...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:ev2rma$d9v$1...@aioe.org...
>> Hubby was in the Royal Marines. They were a tough mob back in the 50s. If
>> they still train today the way he did, they will be just as tough and
>> resourceful.
>>
>>
>
> Here's Richard Littlejohn on the release of the British seamen writing in
> yesterdays Daily Mail.
>
> D.
Thank you Dersu. What The British Government is doing is very sad. I wonder
why anyone would want to join the Forces there today.
Geopelia
grumpyoldhori
>
> Are see how ignorant and arrogant you are!
> You only see one side of it don't you.
>
> CAth
So what excuse are you using for Marines going
room to room killing children ?.
Or is it a video game for septics.?
Best if you stay in Jesusland,you will not get
many supporters of septic policies here.
Kerry
wrote:
> "Geopelia" <phil...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:ev2rma$d9v$1...@aioe.org...
> > Hubby was in the Royal Marines. They were a tough mob back in the 50s. If
> > they still train today the way he did, they will be just as tough and
> > resourceful.
> >
>
>
>
> Here's Richard Littlejohn on the release of the British seamen writing in
> yesterdays Daily Mail.
>
> D.
Oooh I wish he was ours. Great opinionated writing
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Get down and groove, we dance all day in this house!
Katipo
>
> The once-proud Brit military has collapsed to a sorry state when its Royal
> Marines surrender without a fight, then apologize to their captors
> (praising their gentle natures!) while criticizing their own country.
> Pretty sad to think that the last real warriors fighting under the Union
> Jack are soccer hooligans.
>
> Of course, bravery isn't equally distributed. One or even two
> collaborators
> might be explicable. But not all 15.
>
See this article on the herald website:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10432925
To quote from it:
"Nowadays the armed forces have "Conduct after Capture" procedures which
don't rest on the old rubric of "Name, rank and serial number". Admiral Sir
Alan West, the former head of the Navy, says: "Our guidance to anyone in
that position would be to say what they want you to say. Don't tell them
secrets, but if they tell you, 'Say this', well if that's going to get you
out, then do it.""
It would seem the hostages were just following procedure when saying what
the Iranians wanted them to say.
Also the captives seemed to be extremely young for the level of
responsibility they were asked to shoulder. I notice that one of them as a
full Lieutenant (equivalent to a captain in the army) and is only 20! If he
is up to that sort of responsibility at that age good on him. However I have
to wonder if the military is pushing them too far too soon.
/\(**)/\
grumpyoldhori
> Thank you Dersu. What The British Government is doing is very sad. I
> wonder why anyone would want to join the Forces there today.
>
> Geopelia
They are not joining in numbers needed,which is why the
Scottish Regiment is now the Fijian Scottish regiment.
--
grumpy
kda...@gmail.com
We now know the full facts and I believe it or not agree with grumps.
The old Royal Marines would never ever let themselves be used as
propaganda pawns.
Roger Dewhurst
They were working for the UN and who in their right mind would even risk a
prophylactic needle in the arse for the UN? They were a bunch of virtually
unarmed bliar's bureaucrats and when they were nabbed they behaved much as a
bunch of bureaucrats would.
I wonder who, if anyone, will be sacked over this event. I suspect that
no-one will because one of bliar's ministers would have been in Whitehall
gutting the brass who were controlling this thing. I have no doubt there
will be a bunch of resignations from the Navy and Marines and would not be
surprised if the frigate's captain is the first to tell the brass where to
stick their ship and their job, blunt end first.
R
Roger Dewhurst
<kda...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175908373.1...@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
The old Royal Marines would not have had a woman in the boat!
R
>
Roger Dewhurst
"Katipo" <haml...@eggstra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ev6j4u$31b$1...@aioe.org...
>
> >
>
> See this article on the herald website:
> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10432925
>
I think that Prince Harry would rather be shot than captured.
R
dersu
"Roger Dewhurst" <dewh...@wave.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ev72eq$kd9$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>>
>
> I think that Prince Harry would rather be shot than captured.
>
> R
Take off that wishing cap Roger!!
D.
Geopelia
the UN medal). His opinion of the UN is unprintable, a polite version is "as
useless as the League of Nations". Anyone remember that crowd?
Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if there were many resignations. In our day
nobody could resign, girls got themselves pregnant to get out, and it is
rumoured that some men shot a toe off.
Maybe they should recall Mrs Thatcher. She would sort the lot of them out.
Geopelia
Geopelia
the officers got their orders.
Yes, I doubt if a woman could have done the training Hubby did. I don't
think I could have done, even in my strong young days. Maybe it is not as
rigorous today.
Geopelia
george
> <kdav...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Oh.
The RM detatchment on Brittania would refuse to embark the Queen ?
they've swallowed the pick. It's 2000+
Build a bridge and get over it
george
> "Roger Dewhurst" <dewhu...@wave.co.nz> wrote in message
>
> news:ev71on$iu4$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>
>
>
> > "Geopelia" <phildo...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> >news:ev6gf3$t99$1...@aioe.org...
>
> >> "dersu" <d...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
> >>news:4616...@clear.net.nz...
>
> >> > "Geopelia" <phildo...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
Yup.
And the full name for the UN is Useless Nations.
Roger Dewhurst
"george" <gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote in message
news:1175978101.3...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Things have changed a wee bit since Boedicea's time. The Queen does not
lead the troops into battle! Had you not noticed?
R
-Newsman-
Only recently, one particularly racketty and dramatic old Queen from
the Wairarapa has been leading her cohorts of transexuals and
homosexuals into battle, and from the Parliamentary backbenches of New
Zealand, no less.
Had you not noticed?
-Newsman-
texan....usenet@texas...removethisbit...usacom.. wrote:
>Dozens of people have been killed in Diwaniyah during the past weeks
>and the attacks have been blamed by residents on the Mahdi Army,
>al-Sadr's militia.
>
>Many women, accused by the hard-line and fundamentalist militiamen of
>violating their interpretation of Islamic morality, are among the
>dead. Also targeted are police, residents who work for coalition
>forces at a nearby Polish army base, journalists and the wealthy, who
>have been kidnapped for ransom and then killed.
>
This is peace and harmony being brought to the people of Iraq and, as
such, should be regarded as nothing more than a mere passing glitch in
that country's progress towards democracy.
Geopelia
Elizabeth I had something to say about the approaching Spanish Armada!.
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george
board a boat.
Before and at Trafalga and for some years after women were not only
onboard British menofwar but the ship logs recorded births at sea..
Wakey wakey has a term recalling this era with 'show a leg'
big and hairy had to get up
slim and shapely could stand easy..
Geopelia
> You claimed that the (old) Royal Marines wouldn't allow a woman on
> board a boat.
> Before and at Trafalga and for some years after women were not only
> onboard British menofwar but the ship logs recorded births at sea..
> Wakey wakey has a term recalling this era with 'show a leg'
> big and hairy had to get up
> slim and shapely could stand easy..
>
>
"Show a leg" was for ships in port, when wives (and others) could come on
board.
Brian Dooley
But certain wives could come on board by right eg Mrs Gunner.
--
Brian Dooley
Wellington New Zealand