> WD wrote: > > On Nov 7, 3:44 pm, Don Mackie <ooo...@mac.com> wrote: > >> One of my daughters has been sleuthing and come up with a guess as to > >> the name of the penis-flapping musician. Her logic makes sense. So > >> once again, we either have the guessee unfairly stigmatised and his > >> reputaion harmed (if my daughter is wrong), or the suppression order > >> is inffective (if she is right). So, remind me what's the point?
> > I was talking about this with someone tonight, whereby I discovered > > who the guy was. It's made me rethink my position somewhat on this > > (nothing, of course, to do with who he is).
> > The argument essentially is that the offense in question is at the > > very low end of the scale and any average joe would only get > > discharged without conviction and a slap on the wrist fine. In this > > case, due to the prominence of the musician, revealing his identity > > would effect a punishment much more severe than anyone else would > > receive and thus out of all proportion to the offense. This is an > > important point as punishments should fit the crime and they shouldn't > > be excessive or unfair.
> > Weihana.
> A counter argument is that because of his status he is more likely than > the average joe to have young women paying attention to him and thereby > - foolishly, yes, but in an age-old "moths to fame" response, therefore > society needs more warning about his tendencies than about the average > joe whose opportunities to abuse dizzy girls are comparatively few.
> A L P
That's a pretty good counter argument. I suppose this would depend on one's assessment of the individual, his likelihood of reoffending, the circumstances which led to the offending etc. Dealing with substance abuse would be important of course.
WD wrote: > On Nov 7, 3:44 pm, Don Mackie <ooo...@mac.com> wrote: >> One of my daughters has been sleuthing and come up with a guess as to >> the name of the penis-flapping musician. Her logic makes sense. So >> once again, we either have the guessee unfairly stigmatised and his >> reputaion harmed (if my daughter is wrong), or the suppression order >> is inffective (if she is right). So, remind me what's the point?
> It seems amazing that a person who has not yet received due process > can have their name dragged through the mud, yet just because you're a > promiment NZ entertainer you get name suppression forever even when > the fact of your "penis-flapping" has been confirmed in court.
> On Nov 7, 5:22 pm, A _L_ P <hay.hell....@gmail.com> wrote: >> EMB wrote: >> > Geopelia wrote:
>> >> Not naming him is unfair to all the decent performers who are now >> >> under suspicion. >> >> Not to worry, somebody will know and let the cat out of the bag, won't >> >> they?
>> > Already done - it was all over the Trademe forums a few days ago.
>> I can't place him at all. What does he do - dance, sing, juggle >> flat-irons? Related to the late sexologist and art collector John >> Money, I wonder?
> The name keeps being added to the TradeMe forums. His "talent" is no > loss at all. The suppression as usual is a complete waste of time. Why > won't judges learn that suppression orders are a complete waste of > time?
I think I've found it, but as I have never heard of the unmentionable person I'm none the wiser. So the really famous folks don't have to worry that people will think it was them.
Matty F wrote: > On Nov 7, 5:22 pm, A _L_ P <hay.hell....@gmail.com> wrote: >> EMB wrote: >>> Geopelia wrote: >>>> Not naming him is unfair to all the decent performers who are now >>>> under suspicion. >>>> Not to worry, somebody will know and let the cat out of the bag, won't >>>> they? >>> Already done - it was all over the Trademe forums a few days ago. >> I can't place him at all. What does he do - dance, sing, juggle >> flat-irons? Related to the late sexologist and art collector John >> Money, I wonder?
> The name keeps being added to the TradeMe forums. His "talent" is no > loss at all. The suppression as usual is a complete waste of time. Why > won't judges learn that suppression orders are a complete waste of > time?
I am often astonished at yet another middle aged, middle class professional whose understanding of the computer extends to the use of email..... and tentatively typing in double-u double-u double-u something-or-other copied from a newspaper. Many people "use" computers at work in the way desk-workers used to fill in paper forms, this one for new clients' details, this one for mileage claims, the green notebook for addresses. My guess is that judges have people to even do most of the form-filling so unless they as individuals have an interest in using their computer for more than email and some simple browsing they just don't get it, news isn't suppressible any more. If it's too risky to put on a blog or group it can be put up very securely on sites like http://wikileaks.org/ .
> Matty F wrote: >> On Nov 7, 5:22 pm, A _L_ P <hay.hell....@gmail.com> wrote: >>> EMB wrote: >>>> Geopelia wrote: >>>>> Not naming him is unfair to all the decent performers who are now >>>>> under suspicion. >>>>> Not to worry, somebody will know and let the cat out of the bag, won't >>>>> they? >>>> Already done - it was all over the Trademe forums a few days ago. >>> I can't place him at all. What does he do - dance, sing, juggle >>> flat-irons? Related to the late sexologist and art collector John >>> Money, I wonder?
>> The name keeps being added to the TradeMe forums. His "talent" is no >> loss at all. The suppression as usual is a complete waste of time. Why >> won't judges learn that suppression orders are a complete waste of >> time?
> I am often astonished at yet another middle aged, middle class > professional whose understanding of the computer extends to the use of > email..... and tentatively typing in double-u double-u double-u > something-or-other copied from a newspaper. Many people "use" computers > at work in the way desk-workers used to fill in paper forms, this one for > new clients' details, this one for mileage claims, the green notebook for > addresses. My guess is that judges have people to even do most of the > form-filling so unless they as individuals have an interest in using their > computer for more than email and some simple browsing they just don't get > it, news isn't suppressible any more. If it's too risky to put on a blog > or group it can be put up very securely on sites like > http://wikileaks.org/ .
> A L P
That's an interesting website, but the anonymous person doesn't seem to be there. Perhaps it is just too trivial for the site to bother with.
On Nov 8, 6:23 pm, WD <tuari...@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
> On Nov 8, 5:52 pm, teile <te...@clear.net.nz> wrote: > > But the extra punishment is not being inflicted by the system; it is > > self-inflicted. If it doesn't fit the crime, he has only himself to > > blame.
> Yet the same applies to every case of name suppression. The > "punishment" is never dished out by the system but can be a reality > nonetheless. Simply pretending that it has nothing to do with the > justice system doesn't really address the issues in my view.
Embarrassment and public approbation are the result of committing the crime and being exposed, so I suppose it could be argued that the justice system contributes to them. But I regard them as a natural consequence of the crime, not a punishment, and the public desire for punishment calls for more.
<hay.hell....@gmail.com> wrote: >Matty F wrote: >> On Nov 7, 5:22 pm, A _L_ P <hay.hell....@gmail.com> wrote: >>> EMB wrote: >>>> Geopelia wrote: >>>>> Not naming him is unfair to all the decent performers who are now >>>>> under suspicion. >>>>> Not to worry, somebody will know and let the cat out of the bag, won't >>>>> they? >>>> Already done - it was all over the Trademe forums a few days ago. >>> I can't place him at all. What does he do - dance, sing, juggle >>> flat-irons? Related to the late sexologist and art collector John >>> Money, I wonder?
>> The name keeps being added to the TradeMe forums. His "talent" is no >> loss at all. The suppression as usual is a complete waste of time. Why >> won't judges learn that suppression orders are a complete waste of >> time?
>I am often astonished at yet another middle aged, middle class >professional whose understanding of the computer extends to the use of >email..... and tentatively typing in double-u double-u double-u >something-or-other copied from a newspaper. Many people "use" computers >at work in the way desk-workers used to fill in paper forms, this one >for new clients' details, this one for mileage claims, the green >notebook for addresses. My guess is that judges have people to even do >most of the form-filling so unless they as individuals have an interest >in using their computer for more than email and some simple browsing >they just don't get it, news isn't suppressible any more. If it's too >risky to put on a blog or group it can be put up very securely on sites >like http://wikileaks.org/ .
Of all the thousands assumed to have some connection with PCs how many actually do or know more than that. I've been reading about the death of hard copy for many years but it doesn't seem to have happened yet. My present pick is that if it doesn't appear in a newspaper then to all practical purposes it has been suppressed. --
Geopelia wrote: > "A _L_ P" <hay.hell....@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:hd6ik6$egf$2@news.eternal-september.org... >> Matty F wrote: >>> On Nov 7, 5:22 pm, A _L_ P <hay.hell....@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> EMB wrote: >>>>> Geopelia wrote: >>>>>> Not naming him is unfair to all the decent performers who are now >>>>>> under suspicion. >>>>>> Not to worry, somebody will know and let the cat out of the bag, won't >>>>>> they? >>>>> Already done - it was all over the Trademe forums a few days ago. >>>> I can't place him at all. What does he do - dance, sing, juggle >>>> flat-irons? Related to the late sexologist and art collector John >>>> Money, I wonder? >>> The name keeps being added to the TradeMe forums. His "talent" is no >>> loss at all. The suppression as usual is a complete waste of time. Why >>> won't judges learn that suppression orders are a complete waste of >>> time? >> I am often astonished at yet another middle aged, middle class >> professional whose understanding of the computer extends to the use of >> email..... and tentatively typing in double-u double-u double-u >> something-or-other copied from a newspaper. Many people "use" computers >> at work in the way desk-workers used to fill in paper forms, this one for >> new clients' details, this one for mileage claims, the green notebook for >> addresses. My guess is that judges have people to even do most of the >> form-filling so unless they as individuals have an interest in using their >> computer for more than email and some simple browsing they just don't get >> it, news isn't suppressible any more. If it's too risky to put on a blog >> or group it can be put up very securely on sites like >> http://wikileaks.org/ .
>> A L P
> That's an interesting website, but the anonymous person doesn't seem to be > there. > Perhaps it is just too trivial for the site to bother with.
He's just small change. You probably never registered hearing of him, any more than I did, which is why you haven't picked up the hints on any sites.
Brian Dooley wrote: > On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:30:49 +1300, A _L_ P > <hay.hell....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Matty F wrote: >>> On Nov 7, 5:22 pm, A _L_ P <hay.hell....@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> EMB wrote: >>>>> Geopelia wrote: >>>>>> Not naming him is unfair to all the decent performers who are now >>>>>> under suspicion. >>>>>> Not to worry, somebody will know and let the cat out of the bag, won't >>>>>> they? >>>>> Already done - it was all over the Trademe forums a few days ago. >>>> I can't place him at all. What does he do - dance, sing, juggle >>>> flat-irons? Related to the late sexologist and art collector John >>>> Money, I wonder? >>> The name keeps being added to the TradeMe forums. His "talent" is no >>> loss at all. The suppression as usual is a complete waste of time. Why >>> won't judges learn that suppression orders are a complete waste of >>> time? >> I am often astonished at yet another middle aged, middle class >> professional whose understanding of the computer extends to the use of >> email..... and tentatively typing in double-u double-u double-u >> something-or-other copied from a newspaper. Many people "use" computers >> at work in the way desk-workers used to fill in paper forms, this one >> for new clients' details, this one for mileage claims, the green >> notebook for addresses. My guess is that judges have people to even do >> most of the form-filling so unless they as individuals have an interest >> in using their computer for more than email and some simple browsing >> they just don't get it, news isn't suppressible any more. If it's too >> risky to put on a blog or group it can be put up very securely on sites >> like http://wikileaks.org/ .
> Of all the thousands assumed to have some connection with PCs how > many actually do or know more than that. I've been reading about > the death of hard copy for many years but it doesn't seem to have > happened yet. My present pick is that if it doesn't appear in a > newspaper then to all practical purposes it has been suppressed.
Possibly, especially within groups that aren't particularly interested in him which includes most of the people I know. However if it were someone we were interested in I can assure you that the computer-savvy ones would have found out and told the rest of us, and we would have told our other friends, who would have told......... Maybe your friends don't do that in which case you'd be right about suppression working - within some sectors of society.
A _L_ P wrote: > Brian Dooley wrote: >> On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:30:49 +1300, A _L_ P >> <hay.hell....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Matty F wrote: >>>> On Nov 7, 5:22 pm, A _L_ P <hay.hell....@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> EMB wrote: >>>>>> Geopelia wrote: >>>>>>> Not naming him is unfair to all the decent performers who are now >>>>>>> under suspicion. >>>>>>> Not to worry, somebody will know and let the cat out of the bag, >>>>>>> won't >>>>>>> they? >>>>>> Already done - it was all over the Trademe forums a few days ago. >>>>> I can't place him at all. What does he do - dance, sing, juggle >>>>> flat-irons? Related to the late sexologist and art collector John >>>>> Money, I wonder? >>>> The name keeps being added to the TradeMe forums. His "talent" is no >>>> loss at all. The suppression as usual is a complete waste of time. Why >>>> won't judges learn that suppression orders are a complete waste of >>>> time? >>> I am often astonished at yet another middle aged, middle class >>> professional whose understanding of the computer extends to the use >>> of email..... and tentatively typing in double-u double-u double-u >>> something-or-other copied from a newspaper. Many people "use" >>> computers at work in the way desk-workers used to fill in paper >>> forms, this one for new clients' details, this one for mileage >>> claims, the green notebook for addresses. My guess is that judges >>> have people to even do most of the form-filling so unless they as >>> individuals have an interest in using their computer for more than >>> email and some simple browsing they just don't get it, news isn't >>> suppressible any more. If it's too risky to put on a blog or group >>> it can be put up very securely on sites like http://wikileaks.org/ .
>> Of all the thousands assumed to have some connection with PCs how >> many actually do or know more than that. I've been reading about >> the death of hard copy for many years but it doesn't seem to have >> happened yet. My present pick is that if it doesn't appear in a >> newspaper then to all practical purposes it has been suppressed.
> Possibly, especially within groups that aren't particularly interested > in him which includes most of the people I know. However if it were > someone we were interested in I can assure you that the computer-savvy > ones would have found out and told the rest of us, and we would have > told our other friends, who would have told......... > Maybe your friends don't do that in which case you'd be right about > suppression working - within some sectors of society.
I have checked all the NZ singers I know and now fearlessly declare that the offender was Hayley Westenra. Using Google and various other internet tricks, I determined this by a process of elimination, ie, Malvina Major wasn't around and Kiri didn't fit the parameters of the search I instituted.
John Cawston wrote: > A _L_ P wrote: >> Brian Dooley wrote: >>> On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:30:49 +1300, A _L_ P >>> <hay.hell....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Matty F wrote: >>>>> On Nov 7, 5:22 pm, A _L_ P <hay.hell....@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> EMB wrote: >>>>>>> Geopelia wrote: >>>>>>>> Not naming him is unfair to all the decent performers who are now >>>>>>>> under suspicion. >>>>>>>> Not to worry, somebody will know and let the cat out of the bag, >>>>>>>> won't >>>>>>>> they? >>>>>>> Already done - it was all over the Trademe forums a few days ago. >>>>>> I can't place him at all. What does he do - dance, sing, juggle >>>>>> flat-irons? Related to the late sexologist and art collector John >>>>>> Money, I wonder? >>>>> The name keeps being added to the TradeMe forums. His "talent" is no >>>>> loss at all. The suppression as usual is a complete waste of time. Why >>>>> won't judges learn that suppression orders are a complete waste of >>>>> time? >>>> I am often astonished at yet another middle aged, middle class >>>> professional whose understanding of the computer extends to the use >>>> of email..... and tentatively typing in double-u double-u double-u >>>> something-or-other copied from a newspaper. Many people "use" >>>> computers at work in the way desk-workers used to fill in paper >>>> forms, this one for new clients' details, this one for mileage >>>> claims, the green notebook for addresses. My guess is that judges >>>> have people to even do most of the form-filling so unless they as >>>> individuals have an interest in using their computer for more than >>>> email and some simple browsing they just don't get it, news isn't >>>> suppressible any more. If it's too risky to put on a blog or group >>>> it can be put up very securely on sites like http://wikileaks.org/ .
>>> Of all the thousands assumed to have some connection with PCs how >>> many actually do or know more than that. I've been reading about >>> the death of hard copy for many years but it doesn't seem to have >>> happened yet. My present pick is that if it doesn't appear in a >>> newspaper then to all practical purposes it has been suppressed.
>> Possibly, especially within groups that aren't particularly interested >> in him which includes most of the people I know. However if it were >> someone we were interested in I can assure you that the computer-savvy >> ones would have found out and told the rest of us, and we would have >> told our other friends, who would have told......... >> Maybe your friends don't do that in which case you'd be right about >> suppression working - within some sectors of society.
> I have checked all the NZ singers I know and now fearlessly declare that > the offender was Hayley Westenra. Using Google and various other > internet tricks, I determined this by a process of elimination, ie, > Malvina Major wasn't around and Kiri didn't fit the parameters of the > search I instituted.
Omigod, you're braving the full wrath of the law to bring us the Unvanished s'Trewth! Wotta hero!
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