Pania returned
David
An icon, or as many would call it, a taonga.
has been returned to the people of Napier.
But isn't this bright child merely an idea
copied from the sea shore near Copenhagen?
-David.
baggly grimmel
"David" <gos...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
news:dkesqh$cl9$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Kiwi art theives are a better breed than the thieves in Denmark, they simply
cut the breast off the little mermaid a few years ago.
>
>
geopelia
"baggly grimmel" <ga...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:436afcda$1...@clear.net.nz...
bronze they stole. Odd things will happen to them that are not very nice, as
well as the law taking its course. I wonder how tapu will work against them.
L Bruce
wrote:
Not "art thieves" -drunks more like.
TarlaStar
baggly grimmel
"geopelia" <phil...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:OjHaf.733$xD6....@news.xtra.co.nz...
I think the whole concept of tapu is nonsense.
>
>
baggly grimmel
"TarlaStar" <ta...@inspire.nz.net> wrote in message
news:436b996e$1...@clear.net.nz...
It is not a copy of the little mermaid, perhaps the idea was copied, that of
having a young maiden sitting on a rock. I like Pania it is a lovely work
and all power to those who made it, cast it and plonked there at Napier.
--Newsman--
wrote:
>
Well...
The other day I heard Sharples on the radio boring on about powhiri in
government departments. He said that, amongst other "important"
things, powhiri "lifts the tapu" (sic) from incoming staff.
Cultural tokensim is not my thing, and even less so when it's forced
and repeatedly over-projected, but what, exactly, did Sharples mean?
Peter Metcalfe
> David wrote:
> > But isn't this bright child merely an idea
> > copied from the sea shore near Copenhagen?
> All artists copy. Good artists copy the best.
In which case, Pania can't have been created by a good
artist.
--Peter Metcalfe
Katipo
> I wouldn't like to be in the thieves' shoes! It isn't just a piece of
> bronze they stole. Odd things will happen to them that are not very nice,
> as
> well as the law taking its course. I wonder how tapu will work against
> them.
>
>
Exactly how long has that statue been around? On TV they have been saying
over 50 years. However it appeared on a stamp in 1958 (2d, Hawkes Bay
centennial set). If it was important enough to be accorded such an honour
that far back it must have already been around for a while by then.
Katipo
geopelia
"Peter Metcalfe" <metc...@quicksilver.net.nz> wrote in message
news:MPG.1dd68a01e...@news.individual.net...
I shudder to think what some "modern" good artists would have done with the
concept!
David
Muriwai, or Wairaka I believe...
They represent actual people in tradition I suppose...
"TarlaStar" <ta...@inspire.nz.net> wrote in message
news:436b996e$1...@clear.net.nz...
Roger Dewhurst
>
> "geopelia" <phil...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:OjHaf.733$xD6....@news.xtra.co.nz...
> >
> > "baggly grimmel" <ga...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:436afcda$1...@clear.net.nz...
> > >
> > > "David" <gos...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
> > > news:dkesqh$cl9$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> > > >
> > bronze they stole. Odd things will happen to them that are not very
nice,
> as
> > well as the law taking its course. I wonder how tapu will work against
> them.
>
> I think the whole concept of tapu is nonsense.
Perhaps, but I met a fellow near Reporoa who found that an empty coffin
standing by his back door was the best possible deterrent for the local
brown burglars!
R
> >
> >
>
>
Steve Marshall
>The other day I heard Sharples on the radio boring on about powhiri in
>government departments. He said that, amongst other "important"
>things, powhiri "lifts the tapu" (sic) from incoming staff.
>
>Cultural tokensim is not my thing, and even less so when it's forced
>and repeatedly over-projected, but what, exactly, did Sharples mean?
Have you been to a discussion meeting where a lot of the participants
are strangers, and there's not really much opportunity to "meet and
greet", and at least put names to faces -- with the consequence that
when the discussion gets underway it's all over the place?
That's one form of tapu that's easily lifted by a powhiri, or an
invitation to each of the participants to give a 30-second
self-introduction, or nametags and a bit of morning tea.
ka kite
Steve
Myftrefs Voleftrangler Snr.
> "baggly grimmel" <ga...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:436ba9b8$1...@clear.net.nz...
>
>>"geopelia" <phil...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
>>news:OjHaf.733$xD6....@news.xtra.co.nz...
>>
>>>"baggly grimmel" <ga...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:436afcda$1...@clear.net.nz...
>>>
>>>>"David" <gos...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
>>>>news:dkesqh$cl9$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>>>>
>>> I wouldn't like to be in the thieves' shoes! It isn't just a piece of
>>>bronze they stole. Odd things will happen to them that are not very
>
> nice,
>
>>as
>>
>>>well as the law taking its course. I wonder how tapu will work against
>>
>>them.
Odd things, including not very nice things, happen to people all the
time. If a person is aware that s/he has been cursed s/he will
interpret any such events as being due to the curse. If s/he does not
believe in the power of curses s/he will interpret them as being the
usual range of shit that happens in most people's lives at some time or
another.
A L P
Fortitudo Dei
> over 50 years. However it appeared on a stamp in 1958 (2d, Hawkes Bay
> centennial set). If it was important enough to be accorded such an honour
> that far back it must have already been around for a while by then.
>
Unveiled by P.M. Sid Holland on 10th June 1954
http://teaohou.natlib.govt.nz/teaohou/image/Mao10TeA/Mao10TeA021.html
BTMO
"Katipo" <> wrote
> Exactly how long has that statue been around? On TV they have been saying
> over 50 years. However it appeared on a stamp in 1958 (2d, Hawkes Bay
> centennial set). If it was important enough to be accorded such an honour
> that far back it must have already been around for a while by then.
Peter Jackson's new King Kong movie has been honoured with a stamp, and it
isn't even in the cinemas yet...
Katipo
"BTMO" <bt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ENRaf.827$xD6....@news.xtra.co.nz...
It is much easier to get your picture on a stamp these days.
John Cawston
Dont recall the date, but I was there for the unveiling.
JC
>
>
>
David
> The other day I heard Sharples on the radio boring on about powhiri in
> government departments. He said that, amongst other "important"
> things, powhiri "lifts the tapu" (sic) from incoming staff.
>
> Cultural tokensim is not my thing, and even less so when it's forced
> and repeatedly over-projected, but what, exactly, did Sharples mean?
Will you listen if i tell you?
The principal tapu thing which is covered during a powhiri is death.
If the manuhiri (visitors) and tangata whenua (locals) have common areas of
bereavement these are dealt with. Sometimes this is done by grieving.
The culmination of a powhiri is the sharing of food and drink.
Can you think of a better for two groups of people to put aside
possible sources of tension?
David.
--Newsman--
>This is what Newsman said:
>
>
>> The other day I heard Sharples on the radio boring on about powhiri in
>> government departments. He said that, amongst other "important"
>> things, powhiri "lifts the tapu" (sic) from incoming staff.
>>
>> Cultural tokensim is not my thing, and even less so when it's forced
>> and repeatedly over-projected, but what, exactly, did Sharples mean?
>
>Will you listen if i tell you?
>
>The principal tapu thing which is covered during a powhiri is death.
>
>If the manuhiri (visitors) and tangata whenua (locals) have common areas of
>bereavement these are dealt with. Sometimes this is done by grieving.
Muslims a similar societal observance (three days' mourning) but I
can't recall the specific term right now.
>The culmination of a powhiri is the sharing of food and drink.
>Can you think of a better way for two groups of people to put aside
>possible sources of tension?
Not all. Hospitality in any form, however modest and unceremonious, is
an effective tension breaker even if it's only "Care for a drink?"
Normal civilised behaviour anywhere.
Just a thought - is a powhiri held for nervous job interviewees to
ease possible sources of tension before the ordeal?
--Newsman--
wrote:
I've already done it and posted a few letters.
All have been returned unopened and stamped, "Police and border
security informed".
David
"--Newsman--" <sla...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:436c0dd...@news.actrix.co.nz...
> On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:25:58 +1300, "David" <gos...@es.co.nz> wrote:
>
> >This is what Newsman said:
> >
> >
> >> The other day I heard Sharples on the radio boring on about powhiri in
> >> government departments. He said that, amongst other "important"
> >> things, powhiri "lifts the tapu" (sic) from incoming staff.
> >>
> >> Cultural tokensim is not my thing, and even less so when it's forced
> >> and repeatedly over-projected, but what, exactly, did Sharples mean?
> >
> >Will you listen if i tell you?
> >
> >The principal tapu thing which is covered during a powhiri is death.
> >
> >If the manuhiri (visitors) and tangata whenua (locals) have common areas
of
> >bereavement these are dealt with. Sometimes this is done by grieving.
>
> Muslims a similar societal observance (three days' mourning) but I
My understanding is that Moslems, if they can, bury before sundown.
So I assume the mourning period follows that.
The funeral or tangi (noun) is well known about and of course
has its own powhiri and poroporoaki.
However at any powhiri, and there are many types and styles
there is an opportunity to tangi (verb).
I guess here, this is why I support tikanga Maori. It gave me
something powerfull and cleansing- it taught me to mourn.
> can't recall the specific term right now.
>
> >The culmination of a powhiri is the sharing of food and drink.
>
> >Can you think of a better way for two groups of people to put aside
> >possible sources of tension?
>
> Not all. Hospitality in any form, however modest and unceremonious, is
> an effective tension breaker even if it's only "Care for a drink?"
> Normal civilised behaviour anywhere.
>
> Just a thought - is a powhiri held for nervous job interviewees to
> ease possible sources of tension before the ordeal?
Generally whanau support is allowed for a job interview.
And I guess "clearing the air" in shape or form is an asset
in any interview.
-D
BTMO
"--Newsman--" <> wrote
>>It is much easier to get your picture on a stamp these days.
>>
> I've already done it and posted a few letters.
>
> All have been returned unopened and stamped, "Police and border
> security informed".
Fell foul of the Howard "sedition" laws, huh?
;-)
BTMO
"David" <> wrote
<snip>
> I guess here, this is why I support tikanga Maori. It gave me
> something powerfull and cleansing- it taught me to mourn.
Sooo.... you had to be *taught* to mourn?
Whoa.
David
Now you could have gone to a lot of hui and never learned that.
--Newsman--
Nope.
The ones I'd sent to Australia came back stamped:
"Vice Squad informed".
So, for a penal colony that's home to a population of unreconstructed
convicts, Howard's lot have got it about right.
Gordon
> All artists copy. Good artists copy the best.
Or is it that artist's work is good when they are dead?
Then we have the Question, Is it art?
More to the point a landscape icon has been returned/found.
baggly grimmel
I don't know, but I do know that people will claim to believe what they
want. I don't think the issue is clear cut. I don't believe any of this
tapu nonsense has a grain of truth to it.
Myftrefs Voleftrangler Snr.
Some people, those who are over the compulsory admiration and observance
of Maori ceremonial, would find the need to put up with a powhiri a
potent cause of tension.
Anyway, what about all the powhiri that are held when nobody among the
current staff or new recruits has died? Or is it enough that it is
statistically probable that someone somewhere, somehow related to a
newcomer to the organization, has died? Considering that if we go out
far enough into our extended families there must seldom be a time when
some distant relation has died, it seems that being tapu is probably the
natural state of wo/mankind.
A L P
Myftrefs Voleftrangler Snr.
Remedial Laughter before I was able to move on to Spotting a Piss-take.
A L P
baggly grimmel
"Myftrefs Voleftrangler Snr." <b|uebi...@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:436c...@clear.net.nz...
Grumpy Old Hori took that course, he failed. Actually those powhiri
exponents who seem to make their whole life revolve around the dead,
departing and dying give me the creeps. I would rather go to the races.
BTMO
"David" <> wrote
>> > I guess here, this is why I support tikanga Maori. It gave me
>> > something powerfull and cleansing- it taught me to mourn.
>>
>> Sooo.... you had to be *taught* to mourn?
>>
>> Whoa.
>
>
> Now you could have gone to a lot of hui and never learned that.
Having been to a number of funerals, I find it comes naturally...
BTMO
"Myftrefs Voleftrangler Snr." <> wrote
>> Sooo.... you had to be *taught* to mourn?
>>
>> Whoa.
> That's nothing, I had to be taught to laugh. I spent 3 years in Remedial
> Laughter before I was able to move on to Spotting a Piss-take.
What did you do in third year?
;-)
Myftrefs Voleftrangler Snr.
move beyond the mechanical Ha-ha-ha and the carefully memorised
Ha-ha-gasp-ha-ha-hoot (it's not easy to get the rhythm right) to
pants-wetting hysteria.
A L P
BTMO
"Myftrefs Voleftrangler Snr." <> wrote
>> What did you do in third year?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
> That was when I had the great break-through and suddenly found I could
> move beyond the mechanical Ha-ha-ha and the carefully memorised
> Ha-ha-gasp-ha-ha-hoot (it's not easy to get the rhythm right) to
> pants-wetting hysteria.
Hmmmm... I might sign up for that next year...
Myftrefs Voleftrangler Snr.
A L P
David
"baggly grimmel" <ga...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:436c...@clear.net.nz...
> Grumpy Old Hori took that course, he failed. Actually those powhiri
> exponents who seem to make their whole life revolve around the dead,
> departing and dying give me the creeps. I would rather go to the races.
Yea, me too.
I always liked the Tuwhare poem about the block who liked racing.
At the graveside rain is always seen as a good omen.
T. commented that the blokes horses always favoured a wet track.
If I had a sense of 'humour, which i haven't, I could have said that much
more eruditely...
David
"Myftrefs Voleftrangler Snr." <b|uebi...@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:436c...@clear.net.nz...
> Anyway, what about all the powhiri that are held when nobody among the
> current staff or new recruits has died? Or is it enough that it is
> statistically probable that someone somewhere, somehow related to a
> newcomer to the organization, has died? Considering that if we go out
> far enough into our extended families there must seldom be a time when
> some distant relation has died, it seems that being tapu is probably the
> natural state of wo/mankind.
You have a good point here. At many formal hui people come on to the marae
with photos of the recently deceased.
At the Maori Queen's coronation this year Michael King's sister carried his
picture.
Anne Salmon's book "Hui" covers a lot of the gound.
The propocol can be scaled up or down depending on the day and the
occaision.
There is always room at many occaisions for fun and humour.
However if we are dealing with something in the public sector
then a lot of the ceremony might be fairly perfunctory, a bit wishy-washy.
-D
TarlaStar
> "TarlaStar" <ta...@inspire.nz.net> wrote in message
> news:436b996e$1...@clear.net.nz...
>
>>David wrote:
>>
>>>An icon, or as many would call it, a taonga.
>>>has been returned to the people of Napier.
>>>
>>>But isn't this bright child merely an idea
>>>copied from the sea shore near Copenhagen?
>>>
>>>-David.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> having a young maiden sitting on a rock. I like Pania it is a lovely work
> and all power to those who made it, cast it and plonked there at Napier.
>
>
I liked Pania too. Well enough that I took enough photos that I could
probably reproduce her. I wasn't suggesting that she was a copy of any
specific piece of work.
TarlaStar
> "--Newsman--" <sla...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:436c0dd...@news.actrix.co.nz...
>
>>
>>Just a thought - is a powhiri held for nervous job interviewees to
>>ease possible sources of tension before the ordeal?
>
>
> Generally whanau support is allowed for a job interview.
> And I guess "clearing the air" in shape or form is an asset
> in any interview.
What the hell is that? You can have your family come to your job
interview? Do they hold your hand and answer the questions for you, too?
TarlaStar
> In article <436b996e$1...@clear.net.nz>, ta...@inspire.nz.net says...
>
>>David wrote:
>
>
>
>>>But isn't this bright child merely an idea
>>>copied from the sea shore near Copenhagen?
>
>
>
>
> artist.
Well he wasn't Rodin, but he wasn't bad, either.
--Newsman--
wrote:
>David wrote:
>> "--Newsman--" <sla...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:436c0dd...@news.actrix.co.nz...
>>
>snip
>>>
>>>Just a thought - is a powhiri held for nervous job interviewees to
>>>ease possible sources of tension before the ordeal?
>>
>>
>> Generally whanau support is allowed for a job interview.
>> And I guess "clearing the air" in shape or form is an asset
>> in any interview.
>
>
>What the hell is that?
Sounds like bullshit to me.
>You can have your family come to your job
>interview? Do they hold your hand and answer the questions for you, too?
There's something very *very* strange about such a suggestion. I don't
believe it actually happens.
However, I'd be interested to hear details of such an instance.
David
> >You can have your family come to your job
> >interview? Do they hold your hand and answer the questions for you, too?
>
> There's something very *very* strange about such a suggestion. I don't
> believe it actually happens.
>
> However, I'd be interested to hear details of such an instance.
I believe it does happen.
It doesn't mean you have your mother holding your hand
and carrying your lunch box.
Its more like having your referees there in person.
P Thorn
wrote:
It did occur in the 1990s. There were some news stories about loads
of relatives, kaumatua etc., arriving with the interviewee [and the
state paid travel costs]. I can't remember whether this applied just
in the State sector, or private as well, or whether there was any
limit on the number of supporters.
I remember one particular story about a young Maori man who came to
Wellington from Auckland or Northland, and he and his [several]
supporters came by plane. This produced a front page article in the
E.Post or Dominion at the time.
PT
BTMO
"Myftrefs Voleftrangler Snr." <> wrote
>> Hmmmm... I might sign up for that next year...
> You can't just sign up, you have to be referred.
Well, then that, then...
David
"P Thorn" <pric...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:2f8qm1175tckltgfp...@4ax.com...
> >However, I'd be interested to hear details of such an instance.
>
> It did occur in the 1990s. There were some news stories about loads
> of relatives, kaumatua etc., arriving with the interviewee [and the
> state paid travel costs]. I can't remember whether this applied just
> in the State sector, or private as well, or whether there was any
> limit on the number of supporters.
>
> I remember one particular story about a young Maori man who came to
> Wellington from Auckland or Northland, and he and his [several]
> supporters came by plane. This produced a front page article in the
> E.Post or Dominion at the time.
The media will tell you less than half the truth.
There were a lot of politically precious people around in the '90's
and i could tell you a few stories too.
I can't comment on the practise of whanau support currently, however
I assume it is still practised where such support is relevant to the
application.
Whanau based representation in many spheres is still relevant.
-D
Myftrefs Voleftrangler Snr.
Try it next time you or your son or partner go for a job interview.
You'll be amazed at what a difference it makes. A tip: try it first on
a job you don't really want.
A L P
TarlaStar
TarlaStar
>
> I can't comment on the practise of whanau support currently, however
> I assume it is still practised where such support is relevant to the
> application.
>
> Whanau based representation in many spheres is still relevant.
>
>
Name one, please and explain its relevancy if you will.
TarlaStar
My son got whanau support for all his job interviews. I grilled him as
if I were the person he was applying to. Then I told him what he did
right and wrong and what sorts of questions he might consider asking
them. It seems to work. He's been hired for every job he's applied for.
Myftrefs Voleftrangler Snr.
I wish I'd had you to coach me! I was hopeless at getting jobs I
wanted, and the dismal ones I applied for because you have to eat and
pay the mortgage, I never knew what to say when they asked why I wanted
the job. It seemed so obvious - as above. And when it came for "did I
have any questions" the only 2 I could think of were what holidays and
could you leave early if you got all your work finished, which I felt
showed a lack of dedication so I didn't ask them.
A L P
--Newsman--
wrote:
Most, including me, manage without such maternal cossetting or
bullying.
What was so inadequate about your son that you feared he couldn't?
David
> >>All artists copy. Good artists copy the best.
> >
> >
> > It is not a copy of the little mermaid, perhaps the idea was copied,
that of
> > having a young maiden sitting on a rock. I like Pania it is a lovely
work
> > and all power to those who made it, cast it and plonked there at Napier.
> >
> >
> I liked Pania too. Well enough that I took enough photos that I could
> probably reproduce her. I wasn't suggesting that she was a copy of any
> specific piece of work.
She is on a stamp. She is as much an icon as Opo.
Most of Napier is a tribute to art deco, because of the earthquake in 1931.
The reaction to her loss, and the fact that it was portrayed to the country
via Tv opened my eyes...
...it offers hope.
'It is an ill wind that doesn't do someone some good.'
Tilly
> "David" <gos...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:dkesqh$cl9$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> >
> > An icon, or as many would call it, a taonga.
> > has been returned to the people of Napier.
> >
> > copied from the sea shore near Copenhagen?
> >
>
> Kiwi art theives are a better breed than the thieves in Denmark, they
> simply cut the breast off the little mermaid a few years ago.
They thieves did a thorough job with 'The Scream'. The painting still hasn't
been recovered.
Tilly
> David wrote:
> > An icon, or as many would call it, a taonga.
> > has been returned to the people of Napier.
> >
> > But isn't this bright child merely an idea
> > copied from the sea shore near Copenhagen?
> >
> > -David.
> >
> >
Did you watch the BBC program on the Renaissance this weekend Tarla? ;-)
Brian Dooley
wrote:
Can I recommend you to an old bird I know? She's buried two
husbands and divorced a third but she still wets her pants under
stress.
--
Brian Dooley
Wellington New Zealand
BTMO
"Tilly" <> wrote
> They thieves did a thorough job with 'The Scream'. The painting still
> hasn't
> been recovered.
No doubt it is in some super villian's underground (and faced in stainless
steel) fortress by now, with the real Mona Lisa...
Tilly
It can't be sold.
The police seem to believe the thieves may have panicked and destroyed it.
Perhaps we should speculate whose study it is now in! ;-)
Tilly
What I want to know is why it was stolen.....to use for extortion, or
did the accused plan to make it the centrepiece of their lounge ,along with
an assortment of road signs and gnomes? LOL
It couldn't even be sold for scrap.
Tilly
> "Peter Metcalfe" <metc...@quicksilver.net.nz> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1dd68a01e...@news.individual.net...
> > > > copied from the sea shore near Copenhagen?
> >
> >
> > artist.
> >
>
> I shudder to think what some "modern" good artists would have done
> with the concept!
A pile of bricks or a sewing machine tied up in a sack perhaps. (to
represent the rubble created by the earthquake . ;-)
TarlaStar
Nope. I imagine it was excellent though.
BTMO
"Tilly" <> wrote
>> No doubt it is in some super villian's underground (and faced in
>> stainless steel) fortress by now, with the real Mona Lisa...
>
> It can't be sold.
> The police seem to believe the thieves may have panicked and destroyed it.
> Perhaps we should speculate whose study it is now in! ;-)
That's just what they *want* you to think!
It (The Scream) was stolen for a reason, and I suspect that reason wasn't
"for the challenge".
David
"Tilly" <Striking1...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:cFHbf.1435$xD6....@news.xtra.co.nz...
>
> What I want to know is why it was stolen.....to use for extortion, or
> did the accused plan to make it the centrepiece of their lounge ,along
with
> an assortment of road signs and gnomes? LOL
> It couldn't even be sold for scrap.
The crooks were on Tv tonight with their whanau.
I guess people will follow the case with interest.
At least it is a crime where no-one actually got physically hurt.
geopelia
> On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 15:07:22 +1300, "BTMO" <bt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"--Newsman--" <> wrote
> >
> >>>It is much easier to get your picture on a stamp these days.
> >>>
> >> I've already done it and posted a few letters.
> >>
> >> All have been returned unopened and stamped, "Police and border
> >> security informed".
> >
> >Fell foul of the Howard "sedition" laws, huh?
>
> Nope.
>
> The ones I'd sent to Australia came back stamped:
>
> "Vice Squad informed".
>
> So, for a penal colony that's home to a population of unreconstructed
> convicts, Howard's lot have got it about right.
You can get your picture put on a stamp, but it is very expensive. I forget
who is running the scheme, but it seems quite legitimate. A post shop might
know.
geopelia
"BTMO" <bt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:WBVbf.1626$xD6....@news.xtra.co.nz...
reproduction and put it where the real picture was, until they find it. Or
get another artist to copy it exactly in real paint. That shouldn't be
difficult, some art students can even copy the Mona Lisa.
It's not as if it was an Old Master from the days when artists could paint
as well as a photograph.
geopelia
Pity they didn't drop her on their toes!
TarlaStar
My younger son is one of those people who's a dedicated worker, but when
put on the spot, tends to go mute. I knew he needed the coaching, and
I've interviewed more people than I can actually count, in excess of
500, so I was the natural trainer.
TarlaStar
Is there something wrong with practicing for something that you consider
important?
TarlaStar
You think that Old Masters painted photographically? Sorry, Geo,
you're just wrong and wrong. The reason they are MASTERS is because they
AREN'T photographic representations, they are interpretations of life,
symbolic representations, abstractions from reality...and brush strokes
count, being the creator COUNTS.
TarlaStar
baggly grimmel
Nothing at all if you ask me. It is a good thing to do to dummy run an
interview and having a devils advocate to dummy run it with is very good.
baggly grimmel
Mind you, to the untrained eye, or untainted perhaps, artists like Durer
produced some beautiful realism and left a great legacy of the times.
Dave Joll
> You can get your picture put on a stamp, but it is very expensive. I
> forget
> who is running the scheme, but it seems quite legitimate. A post shop
> might
> know.
I know of a couple of schemes: one commercial -
http://www.newzealandmail.co.nz/Quote.aspx
- and one personal -
http://www.nzpost.co.nz/Cultures/en-NZ/Personal/PersonalisedStamps/
Both schemes have their down sides: New Zealand Mail
stamps can only be used within the country, and the
New Zealand Post stamps are printed in a standard
design with the personal picture as an attached half
stamp sized label.
Probably the best known case of a personalised stamp
was when stamp dealer Len Jury arranged with yet
another stamp producer (Pete's Post) to have stamps
featuring his picture printed when he stood for
Parliament in 1999 (I think).
geopelia
They would only keep the copy there until they got the original back. A copy
(labelled as such)
is better than a blank space on the wall.
Many Old Masters were commissioned by Popes and Princes, painted to order as
the patron wanted, and small bits of a large painting were often painted by
apprentices.
Here's a question:
Which would you rather have on your wall, to live with and look at everyday?
(Forget about the money value for the moment).
A good reproduction or copy of:
a Constable,
or a Monet,
or a Van Gogh landscape,
or the original painting of The Scream?
I'd pick one of the copies above any day!
Maybe I'm lucky though, I spent many hours in the National Gallery in London
and grew up with real art as it should be.
Geopelia
TarlaStar
Darling Grimly. I don't consider Durer to be particularly realistic, say
when compared to something like this:
http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/zsevcik/paint.htm
but photorealism is not my bag. I prefer this:
http://www.jssgallery.org/Paintings/Carnation_Lily_Lily_Rose_b.ht
anything by Sargent is fine though.
TarlaStar
> "TarlaStar" <ta...@inspire.nz.net> wrote in message
> news:437179a3$1...@clear.net.nz...
>>Sweet Jesus on a crutch! So you think a copy is as good as the original?
>> You think that Old Masters painted photographically? Sorry, Geo,
>>you're just wrong and wrong. The reason they are MASTERS is because they
>>AREN'T photographic representations, they are interpretations of life,
>>symbolic representations, abstractions from reality...and brush strokes
>>count, being the creator COUNTS.
>
>
>
> They would only keep the copy there until they got the original back. A copy
> (labelled as such)
> is better than a blank space on the wall.
So put a different original there.
>
> Many Old Masters were commissioned by Popes and Princes, painted to order as
> the patron wanted, and small bits of a large painting were often painted by
> apprentices.
And it's often quite clear when that happened. Then again, the
apprentices were working under the tutelage and control of the Master.
>
> Here's a question:
> Which would you rather have on your wall, to live with and look at everyday?
> (Forget about the money value for the moment).
>
> A good reproduction or copy of:
> a Constable,
> or a Monet,
> or a Van Gogh landscape,
>
> or the original painting of The Scream?
>
> I'd pick one of the copies above any day!
Actually, I've always liked The Scream. I'd much prefer the original of
that painting to a copy of anything else. I don't like copies much. I
only have one in my house. Everything else is original work either by
myself or some other artist.
>
> Maybe I'm lucky though, I spent many hours in the National Gallery in London
> and grew up with real art as it should be.
"Art as it should be." I'm sorry, but who made you the arbiter of what
is and is not art? Normally, I'm all about individuals making up their
own minds about what they like and don't like, and in fact, I am in this
case as well, but goddamn! You don't get to decide for anyone else what
is and is not art.
baggly grimmel
They are pretty good sites, never seen much by sargent, really lovely work.
Durer could never be considered photorealistic but he was a master of the
time in my humble opinion. His work absolutely amazed me in my youth, when
I was drawing and saw what was possible in the art around me.
baggly grimmel
They are w
> http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/zsevcik/paint.htm
>
> but photorealism is not my bag. I prefer this:
> http://www.jssgallery.org/Paintings/Carnation_Lily_Lily_Rose_b.ht
>
> anything by Sargent is fine though.
I remember seeing work by Chuck Close, I thought that was pretty good, and
in the early 70's I went to see some Raymond Ching portraits and bird
painting. They were amazing, beyond photography.
I went thru phases of disliking photography, not art, disliking
photorealism, waste of time when a camera can do all that, liked Binny too,
until he kicked a freinds dog and nearly killed it. I guess he was scared
of the dog but she was a lovely old thing and wouldn't have hurt a fly.
I do love his Kaiurara(?) Kaka, Kaikoura Island Great Barrier with a kaka.
I love Binny's bird paintings. I enjoy McCahon lots too. I am lucky enough
to own a bit of land in the Hokianga that he painted.
I have seen a smattering of modern American art, absolutely blue my sox
right off my worn out old feet. Louisiana Museum of modern art in Denmark.
Marvellous, a walk back through the Danish suburban/parklike landscape to
the beautiful harbour of Homlebeck(?) and a sail back to Sweden. That day
in itself was a work of art.
Actually, anyone putting a living idea into a bit of chaos, no matter what
the medium or the criticism, is a bit of a hero in my book. I would be the
worst critic because I love from the heart art.
geopelia
Maybe not, but plenty of people would agree with me!
geopelia
"geopelia" <phil...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:QKFcf.253$vH5....@news.xtra.co.nz...
why is something like that, paint on canvas, considered valuable art, while
the same sort of thing done with a spraycan on a wall is graffiti or tagging
and washed off?
The start of "Desperate Housewives", where they show comical changes to
famous paintings, would be a great place for The Scream, I wonder what they
would do with it there?
Geopelia
Tilly
It was fantastic.
It is part of a series called 'Imagine' which has featured a great
Renaissance artist every week.
TarlaStar
like, "Art as I believe it should be."
TarlaStar
It's NOT the same sort of thing. For one, you've never actually seen the
painting in life. That makes an incredible difference. Photographs don't
do justice to the subtleties of painting. For another, you've grown so
accustomed to seeing knock-offs and parodies of The Scream, that you
probably don't even remember the impact that it might have had on you
had you seen it live for the first time. Then you might have seen what
is actually going on in the painting. There are boats in the background,
it is sunset, and vividly so. The screamer is experiencing something
primal, while around him, life goes on, unnoticing. It's an post-modern
expression of angst, and so effective that it has become iconic. When
that happens to a graffiti artist, he becomes a Keith Haring.
>
> The start of "Desperate Housewives", where they show comical changes to
> famous paintings, would be a great place for The Scream, I wonder what they
> would do with it there?
Something that somebody else has already thought of.
geopelia
Maybe that is what I should have said, thanks.
Everybody has different ideas. I just don't like the way art critics and
teachers tell us what we "ought" to like.
People don't seem to like the Pre-Raphaelites today, but I do.
Geopelia
geopelia
Have they? I don't have time to read all the messages here. What conclusion
did they come to?
No I haven't seen The Scream live, where was it kept? Thank you for
explaining it.
geopelia
TarlaStar
> No I haven't seen The Scream live, where was it kept? Thank you for
> explaining it.
>
I don't know if I actually have. That's just my interpretation of what
I've seen. If you saw it live, you might have another. It's not going to
last forever. It's only done on cardboard, so it's not even close to
being archivally sound. But it IS iconic. Perhaps it's the simplicity of
the whole thing that is so visceral.
TarlaStar
>>
>>I don't doubt it a bit. Perhaps just amending the statement to something
>>like, "Art as I believe it should be."
>
>
> Maybe that is what I should have said, thanks.
>
> Everybody has different ideas. I just don't like the way art critics and
> teachers tell us what we "ought" to like.
> People don't seem to like the Pre-Raphaelites today, but I do.
See, now we have found common ground. As I said, I have one copy of a
painting by Bougereau in my house. He is the predecessor of the
Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood. I would say that my style is very
Pre-Raphaelite with a bit of impressionism thrown in, in that I like to
work from live models in natural light. I learned a great deal about
composition from copying the works of Waterhouse.
geopelia
Is it really only on cardboard? How can the thieves possible look after it?
Suppose they get it wet, or bend it?
Maybe it's just as well there are so many copies and pictures of it.
There was a portrait of Winston Churchill as an old man, done by a famous
artist. Churchill's wife destroyed it as she did not like it. Now all we
have are various pictures of it. Sadly that may be all we will have left of
The Scream.
Tilly
Tilly
geopelia
I like those paintings!
Do you remember when The Chinese Girl was in so many homes? People laugh
about it today, but why not have it if you like it?
geopelia
BBC programs. I used to like their Horizon documentaries.
Tilly
geopelia
TV Guide calls it "Imagination", I suppose that is the series.
Thanks.
Why don't they put these programs on in prime time - or let Prime have them?
Geopelia
Tilly
If you go to the BBC website you can organise to have their weekly program
schedule e mailed.
They don't send spam.
TarlaStar
> "TarlaStar" <ta...@inspire.nz.net> wrote in message
> news:4375...@clear.net.nz...
>
>>geopelia wrote:
>>
>>
>>>No I haven't seen The Scream live, where was it kept? Thank you for
>>>explaining it.
>>>
>>
>>I don't know if I actually have. That's just my interpretation of what
>>I've seen. If you saw it live, you might have another. It's not going to
>>last forever. It's only done on cardboard, so it's not even close to
>>being archivally sound. But it IS iconic. Perhaps it's the simplicity of
>>the whole thing that is so visceral.
>
>
> Is it really only on cardboard? How can the thieves possible look after it?
> Suppose they get it wet, or bend it?
> Maybe it's just as well there are so many copies and pictures of it.
There are, unfortunately, many paintings that the elements will destroy
before their time.
geopelia
geopelia
With the invention of photography, and now digital cameras, we can record
the best paintings for when the originals are gone.