HABEMUS PAPAM

[Patrick FitzGerald]

Pope Francis I. Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina has been elected by
his fellow cardinals. He is the first pope from Latin America.



Patrick

[Allistar]

Patrick FitzGerald wrote:

>
>
> Pope Francis I. Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina has been elected by
> his fellow cardinals. He is the first pope from Latin America.

So there is a new leader of the biggest imaginary friend club.
--
A.

[geopelia]

"Patrick FitzGerald" <a...@b.com> wrote in message
news:ktk1k8pg5tlucvol2...@4ax.com...

>
>
> Pope Francis I. Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina has been elected by
> his fellow cardinals. He is the first pope from Latin America.
>
>
>
> Patrick

Let's hope he is like Saint Francis, the one who preached to the birds.

[-Newsman-]

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:31:04 +1300, Patrick FitzGerald <a...@b.com>
wrote:

>
>
>Pope Francis I. Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina has been elected by
>his fellow cardinals. He is the first pope from Latin America.

And, as the Catholic Church's new Don Corleone, certainly not the last
to head the world's biggest organised crime fraternity.

[george152]

Yes but he'll be preaching to the bird brains.
Fancy believing that crap!

[geopelia]

"george152" <gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote in message
news:f-OdnYtdLusqYN3M...@giganews.com...

What crap? The story that St Francis preached to the birds? Or the religion
itself?
He is also said to have preached to pigs.

Ever tried preaching to birds? Even if they understood human language, it
would be nearly impossible.
The concepts we humans take for granted (whether we believe or not) are
beyond their understanding.
Death, sin, redemption, salvation, immortal souls, even a God would mean
nothing to creatures that are totally innocent, unaware that they will die,
and unable to sin intentionally.
And what could we say to a pig, a creature that we intend to eat?

The world has changed a lot in two thousand years. Bringing an ancient
church into the modern world will not be easy.

[Liberty]

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 22:36:41 +1300, "geopelia" <geop...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>
>"george152" <gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote in message
>news:f-OdnYtdLusqYN3M...@giganews.com...
>> On 14/03/13 10:16, geopelia wrote:
>>> "Patrick FitzGerald" <a...@b.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ktk1k8pg5tlucvol2...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pope Francis I. Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina has been elected by
>>>> his fellow cardinals. He is the first pope from Latin America.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> Let's hope he is like Saint Francis, the one who preached to the birds.
>>>
>>>
>> Yes but he'll be preaching to the bird brains.
>> Fancy believing that crap!
>
>What crap? The story that St Francis preached to the birds? Or the religion
>itself?

The story of Christ has to be taken with a grain of salt.
It really is simplistic twaddle.
Is there a God. Can't be proven
Did God get Mary up the duff?
After Jesus was born. What happened to Jesus for the next 25 odd years?
There is a big void in the story line.
We do know he pissed of the wrong people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M

[geopelia]

"Liberty" <libe...@live.com> wrote in message
news:ild4k8ti1437vedmj...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 22:36:41 +1300, "geopelia" <geop...@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"george152" <gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote in message
>>news:f-OdnYtdLusqYN3M...@giganews.com...
>>> On 14/03/13 10:16, geopelia wrote:
>>>> "Patrick FitzGerald" <a...@b.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ktk1k8pg5tlucvol2...@4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pope Francis I. Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina has been elected by
>>>>> his fellow cardinals. He is the first pope from Latin America.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Patrick
>>>>
>>>> Let's hope he is like Saint Francis, the one who preached to the birds.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yes but he'll be preaching to the bird brains.
>>> Fancy believing that crap!
>>
>>What crap? The story that St Francis preached to the birds? Or the
>>religion
>>itself?
>
> The story of Christ has to be taken with a grain of salt.
> It really is simplistic twaddle.
> Is there a God. Can't be proven
> Did God get Mary up the duff?
> After Jesus was born. What happened to Jesus for the next 25 odd years?
> There is a big void in the story line.
> We do know he pissed of the wrong people.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M
>
>

What would happen to any carpenter's son in those days? Learning his trade
with his earthly father.
Some people say he lived with the Essenes for a while.

Whether you believe the supernatural side or not, there is a lot of sense in
his message, especially the Sermon on the Mount.

How many people would still have believed literally in the Greek and Roman
religions of the time?
Isis and Mithras had a lot of followers too.
The Jews' invisible God was probably the most believable.

People want to believe in a power greater than themselves, and in a life
after death. Why shouldn't they, if it is a comfort?

[Allistar]

I'm not sure why a deity is required at all. DoesnIt dt seem to serve any
purpose except to annoy people who don't agree with you.

> People want to believe in a power greater than themselves, and in a life
> after death. Why shouldn't they, if it is a comfort?

If it is a comfort, sure.

Fairy tales give me no comfort. I am at an advantage because these fairy
tales weren't rammed down my throat when I was a child.
--
A.

[misanthropic_curmudgeon]

On Friday, 15 March 2013 10:12:28 UTC+13, geopelia wrote:
[snip]

> People want to believe in a power greater than themselves,
> and in a life after death. Why shouldn't they, if it
> is a comfort?

I've always been fascinated that people can take comfort from willful self delusion, such as that obtained by believing in spirits/gods/ghosts/goblins/santa.

[Roger Dewhurst]

On Mar 15, 10:30 am, Allistar <m...@hiddenaddress.com> wrote:
> geopelia wrote:
>
> > "Liberty" <libert...@live.com> wrote in message
> >news:ild4k8ti1437vedmj...@4ax.com...
> >> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 22:36:41 +1300, "geopelia" <geope...@nowhere.com>

People who were exposed to your 'fairy tales' have the choice between
accepting them and not accepting them. I do not think that absence of
exposure to them has given you any advantage. It has made you
intolerant of others. You might see that as an advantage. Others may
not. Personally, in my twenties, I gradually rejected religious
belief. Nevertheless I see it providing support and moral guidance
for some and for others a licence for antisocial behaviour.

[Allistar]

Unless they're a child and believe everything their parents tell them.

> I do not think that absence of
> exposure to them has given you any advantage.

It has given me a choice to accept old myths as fact or not, on my own
terms. A child doesn't have that choice - they believe what they are told.

> It has made you intolerant of others.

No it hasn't at all.

> You might see that as an advantage. Others may
> not. Personally, in my twenties, I gradually rejected religious
> belief.

I think religious belief should be "opt in", not "opt out". It's ike alcohol
and driving. Only those capable of dealing with it should be exposed to it.

> Nevertheless I see it providing support and moral guidance
> for some and for others a licence for antisocial behaviour.

One doesn't need invisible friends to be moral, or to have moral guidance.
--
A.

[JohnO]

Yep. I don't myself go in for any of the sky pixie stuff but the emphasis of the religious education my kids get at their excellent Roman Catholic schools is heavily on charity and the sort of moral concepts anyone would agree with such as doing unto others... etc. So I'm quite relaxed that my kids will work out with their natural scientific curiosity what is the truth around the religious dogma.

[Allistar]

You're not concerned that your children are being taught the christian myths
as if they are fact? That any critical thought with regards to that is
discouraged?
--
A.

[JohnO]

On Friday, 15 March 2013 11:42:04 UTC+13, Allistar wrote:
<snip>

>
> You're not concerned that your children are being taught the christian myths
> as if they are fact? That any critical thought with regards to that is
> discouraged?

No. We discuss this stuff at home. They know what I feel and I just tell them they can make up their own minds but I encourage them to consider all angles. This seems to be working out fine.

[JohnO]

On Friday, 15 March 2013 11:05:58 UTC+13, misanthropic_curmudgeon wrote:
<snip>

>
> I've always been fascinated that people can take comfort from willful self delusion, such as that obtained by believing in spirits/gods/ghosts/goblins/santa.

... or Green Party economics ...

[Allistar]

Good stuff. I wouldn't consider doing this myself. I find the christian
mythology to be insidious and I don't think a belief in an invisible friend
is necessary to be a moral person. Each to their own.
--
A.

[colp]

On Friday, March 15, 2013 9:45:53 AM UTC+13, liberty wrote:
> The story of Christ has to be taken with a grain of salt.
> It really is simplistic twaddle.
> Is there a God. Can't be proven
> Did God get Mary up the duff?
> After Jesus was born. What happened to Jesus for the next 25 odd years?
> There is a big void in the story line.
> We do know he pissed of the wrong people.

The state has an interest in people not knowing the full story.

[-Newsman-]

On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 10:30:01 +1300, Allistar <m...@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:

Nor was that the case for me 60-plus years ago. But then, I had
wonderful parents and attended good schools so nothing was ever rammed
down my throat. Indeed, I cannot recall one instance when any
religious teacher ever insisted that religious faith and belief **per
se** are the indispensable and fundamental tenets of life. And this
was at a time when "everyone went to church" and the pews were full -
or even standing room only if word got out that a popular preacher had
blown into town.

There was never, ever, any suggestion of a Fundamental Doctrine to be
learned and rigorously complied with; rather, we all gained
instruction and enlightenment through Allegorical Example.

Since long before my time, Christian teaching through Allegorical
Example has been the means by which what we call "religion" has been
conveyed and taught in the more enlightened schools. In such
teachings, the intention has been to instil a socially unifying and
stabilising "moral code" by which each may, hopefully, live his
life....and nothing more. There is neither moral compulsion nor
embargo.

I regard The Bible - which depicts the entire human condition as a
rattling good story embodying some of the most gloriously ineffable
and uplifting prose ever known to man.

**As Allegory** it has no equal, and you're hearing this from a 100%
agnostic.

[geopelia]

"Allistar" <m...@hiddenaddress.com> wrote in message
news:y-ydnWBxjoOL3N_M...@giganews.com...

I learnt the lot but still ended up agnostic.
But I'm glad I had that background as a child. The Bible is a big part of
our heritage.
And with a Catholic aunt, I got the saints and angels as well. Lucky me!

[geopelia]

"-Newsman-" <sla...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5142648...@news.eternal-september.org...

Hear hear. I think the King James version is still the best.

Many of my generation were also taught the Greek and Roman myths and
legends. We knew a child's version of Homer etc.
The old gods were as real to me as the Bible characters.

Now with the internet everybody can learn anything they like.

[geopelia]

"misanthropic_curmudgeon" <misanthropi...@breastcancermail.com>
wrote in message
news:ef2db9f6-2908-425a...@googlegroups.com...

But believers are unaware that they are deluded.

[geopelia]

"colp" <co...@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message
news:d60ae3bd-7f12-4679...@googlegroups.com...

Why is that? Do you know something about his years as a youth?

He is supposed to have come to Britain with Joseph of Arimathea.
But there is no proof either way. It would be a long journey across the
whole Roman Empire.
"And did those feet in ancient time...."

[Allistar]

geopelia wrote:

>
> "colp" <co...@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message
> news:d60ae3bd-7f12-4679...@googlegroups.com...
>> On Friday, March 15, 2013 9:45:53 AM UTC+13, liberty wrote:
>>> The story of Christ has to be taken with a grain of salt.
>>> It really is simplistic twaddle.
>>> Is there a God. Can't be proven
>>> Did God get Mary up the duff?
>>> After Jesus was born. What happened to Jesus for the next 25 odd
>>> years? There is a big void in the story line.
>>> We do know he pissed of the wrong people.
>>
>> The state has an interest in people not knowing the full story.
>
> Why is that? Do you know something about his years as a youth?

You mean apart from not being born of a virgin?

> He is supposed to have come to Britain with Joseph of Arimathea.
> But there is no proof either way. It would be a long journey across the
> whole Roman Empire.
> "And did those feet in ancient time...."

--
A.

[Rich80105]

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:15:09 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hows that mining programme of the Nats going for you, JohnO?

[-Newsman-]

On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:22:20 +1300, "geopelia" <geop...@nowhere.com>
wrote:

Indeed. Like me, you were - and still are - immeasurably advantaged
over those who have been denied the ineffable and subconscious
spirituality and "knowing" that sound instruction in Allegorical
Example confers.

Empty of intellectual maturity and drifting in a sea of their own
spiritual vacuity that's masked by their smug but fragile
self-assurance, they can only whistle fearfully in the dark, while you
and I simply "know."

That's why "knowing" people like you, Geo, are manifestly so
comfortable with themselves....

... and they, equally manifestly, are not.

[-Newsman-]

Indeed, just fancy all those bird-brained believers such as the
ancient writers, philosophers, mathematicians, architects, composers
et al, whose beliefs underpinned and drove the development of the very
civilisation that now not only makes you who you are, but gives a
sense of logic, substance, reason and meaning to your very existence.

[george152]

Yup. A bible and a god stolen from the Jewish poeple.
Bigotry, stupidity and bias that had scientists denouncing evidence just
so a book written by ignorant goat herders could be passed off as evidence.
Ever feel ashamed of the crap and suffering you and your tiny minded
buddies have condemned the human race to ?
Oh and my existence is not dependant upon your big daddy in the sky

[geopelia]

"-Newsman-" <sla...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:5142aa4...@news.eternal-september.org...

I don't really know anything. I don't see how anybody can know. Perhaps all
will be revealed when we die.
Perhaps there is a spirit life afterwards.
Perhaps we come back here, reborn in another body.
Or perhaps there is nothing at all, like being permanently under a general
anaesthetic. I suppose most people experience that in their lifetime.
Going under and waking up, and nothing at all in between. We just aren't
there.
Who knows? So why worry?

[geopelia]

"Allistar" <m...@hiddenaddress.com> wrote in message

news:Y8udnb97FM8NEN_M...@giganews.com...

I've heard that "virgin" in the original sources simply meant "young woman".
But I wouldn't know about that.
Parthenogenesis may perhaps be possible, though very unlikely in higher
mammals, but the offspring is a clone of the mother, and always female.

But Christians believe God was his father.

[geopelia]

"george152" <gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote in message

news:beadnYq4JtdmVN_M...@giganews.com...

Ignorant goat herders?

St Paul was a tent maker, also a Pharisee,and a Roman citizen. He would have
been a very learned man in his day.
St Luke was said to have been a doctor. St Matthew was a tax gatherer.
And several disciples were fishermen. They would have been sailors, and
probably boat builders too.

Moses was raised by Pharaoh's daughter as an Egyptian prince. He would have
had a good education.
Yes, David was a shepherd, but he was a good musician.

And the Bible isn't one book by one author. It is more like a library.

[Liberty]

For once I agree with you.
I also believe religion as a subject should be taught in schools.
It would help curb the bigotry that causes so much animosity.

But on the question is there a god.

If you wanted to go up to the stone Galleries
at Saint Pauls in London in January.
If there was a God don't you think God would have delayed repairs until
February?

[colp]

On Friday, March 15, 2013 3:42:07 PM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:
> > The state has an interest in people not knowing the full story.

> Why is that?

Because the state uses the Anglican religion to advance its interests. The idea that the state has universal jurisdiction over the people is from the Anglican Articles of Religion, Article XXXVII.

> Do you know something about his years as a youth?

A little. This is new though.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2293301/Shape-shifting-Jesus-spent-supper-Pontius-Pilate-claims-just-deciphered-1-200-year-old-Egyptian-manuscript.html

The ancient illuminated text's claim explains why Judas used a kiss to betray Jesus, since the Christian Messiah had the ability to transform his appearance.

[Pooh]

"geopelia" <geop...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:khu17q$2ua$1...@dont-email.me...

That fact is always obvious Geo.

Pooh

[JohnO]

On Friday, 15 March 2013 16:47:07 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:15:09 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
>

<snip>

>
> Hows that mining programme of the Nats going for you, JohnO?

Held up by Labour/Green opposition. Too bad Labour/Green are preventing this opportunity to create some jobs.

[JohnO]

On Friday, 15 March 2013 20:12:57 UTC+13, george wrote:
<snip>

> >> Yes but he'll be preaching to the bird brains.
> >> Fancy believing that crap!
>
> > Indeed, just fancy all those bird-brained believers such as the
> > ancient writers, philosophers, mathematicians, architects, composers
> > et al, whose beliefs underpinned and drove the development of the very
> > civilisation that now not only makes you who you are, but gives a
> > sense of logic, substance, reason and meaning to your very existence.
>
> Yup. A bible and a god stolen from the Jewish poeple.

Shared, not stolen. Also shared with Muslims.

> Bigotry, stupidity and bias that had scientists denouncing evidence just
> so a book written by ignorant goat herders could be passed off as evidence.

You seem to be displaying a fair dose of bigotry yourself. Perhaps you should just live and let be a little.

> Ever feel ashamed of the crap and suffering you and your tiny minded
> buddies have condemned the human race to ?

I think you are actually directing your hatred at a non believer.

> Oh and my existence is not dependant upon your big daddy in the sky

Good for you. Now why not chill out a little?

[Rich80105]

On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 23:14:03 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Perhaps you could explain how Labour / Green are stopping the
government from putting legislation through - or forced the governmetn
to take their eye off the ball with Soplid Energy for being so hands
off Solid Energy (while grabbing $30 million in dividends even while
the company was in trouble) that they has lost New Zealand many
millions of value . . .

[geopelia]

"colp" <co...@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message

news:18363abc-6cc0-4f20...@googlegroups.com...

> On Friday, March 15, 2013 3:42:07 PM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:
>> > The state has an interest in people not knowing the full story.

It wasn't me who said that. Geopelia

>> Why is that?
> Because the state uses the Anglican religion to advance its interests. The
> idea that the state has universal jurisdiction over the people is from the
> Anglican Articles of Religion, Article XXXVII.

In the days of the 39 Articles, people could be fined for not going to
church!

>
>> Do you know something about his years as a youth?
>
> A little. This is new though.
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2293301/Shape-shifting-Jesus-spent-supper-Pontius-Pilate-claims-just-deciphered-1-200-year-old-Egyptian-manuscript.html
>
> The ancient illuminated text's claim explains why Judas used a kiss to
> betray Jesus, since the Christian Messiah had the ability to transform his
> appearance.

From the Daily Mail. What do you expect?

And if that is really a genuine Egyptian manuscript, it could very well be
fiction. Look at all the vampire stories today. Does anyone believe vampires
really exist?
Suppose somebody in 4,000 AD finds a manuscript of one. Will it be taken
seriously as a 21st century belief?

Or take the Odyssey. It may very well describe a real king of Ithaca, but
does anyone believe all the incidents on the voyage? Circe, Cyclops etc?

[colp]

On Sunday, March 17, 2013 1:51:25 AM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:
> From the Daily Mail. What do you expect?

You do know about ad hominems, right?

The point is that it explains why Judas had to point him out. Why did none of the servants on the Pharisees recognise him?

"God is infinitely changeable, and can assume all forms at will. The Son proceeds from the most perfect of these modifications of the Divine nature and is conceptional with that modification, but not with the Divine nature itself. The Son is not God, therefore, in the full sense, nor has He all the power of God. He cannot change Himself, though He can be changed at will by God."

The Clementine writings

> And if that is really a genuine Egyptian manuscript, it could very well be
> fiction. Look at all the vampire stories today. Does anyone believe vampires
> really exist?

Vlad the Impaler was a real historical character, and blood drinking crops up quite a bit in religion.

> Or take the Odyssey. It may very well describe a real king of Ithaca, but
> does anyone believe all the incidents on the voyage? Circe, Cyclops etc?

http://www.claytonbailey.com/cyclops.htm

[-Newsman-]

On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:12:57 +1300, george152 <gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote:

>On 15/03/13 18:22, -Newsman- wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:29:11 +1300, george152 <gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 14/03/13 10:16, geopelia wrote:
>>>> "Patrick FitzGerald" <a...@b.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ktk1k8pg5tlucvol2...@4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pope Francis I. Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina has been elected by
>>>>> his fellow cardinals. He is the first pope from Latin America.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Patrick
>>>>
>>>> Let's hope he is like Saint Francis, the one who preached to the birds.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yes but he'll be preaching to the bird brains.
>>> Fancy believing that crap!
>>
>> Indeed, just fancy all those bird-brained believers such as the
>> ancient writers, philosophers, mathematicians, architects, composers
>> et al, whose beliefs underpinned and drove the development of the very
>> civilisation that now not only makes you who you are, but gives a
>> sense of logic, substance, reason and meaning to your very existence.
>>
>
>Yup. A bible and a god stolen from the Jewish poeple.

Nothing has been stolen. The jewish people still have their god and
their New Testment, intact and unsullied as ever.

>Bigotry, stupidity and bias that had scientists denouncing evidence just
>so a book written by ignorant goat herders could be passed off as evidence.
>Ever feel ashamed of the crap and suffering you and your tiny minded
>buddies have condemned the human race to ?

I cannot feel ashamed of that for which I am not responsible since I
am neither religious believer nor bigot. Know that I have found more
tiny-minded, intellectually vacant bigotry among self-proclaimed
secularists than among any other group. But, "religion" or no, I
certainly believe that there is an "Ultimate Good" in every one of us
that we may strive to achieve. This, I think, is naturally inherent
in humans.

>> Oh and my existence is not dependant upon your big daddy in the sky

In my view, the reason for much of the "existence" you enjoy today
depends on the Big Daddy-inspired intellects and talents of yesteryear
which you know transcend your own. These abstractions-made-concrete
[1] are expressed in the glories of mankind's civilisation that have
been handed down to you and everyone else over more than a thousand
years.

But, if that does not yet - at least partially - account for the
religiously inspired abstract-made-concrete, how do you explain the
perpetual queues of the world's staunchest **non-christians** and
atheists and secularists who will line up for hours to view the
Cistine Chapel, there to marvel at the works of Michelanchelo - or to
take in Christopher Wren's St Paul's Cathedral - or Bishop Maurice De
Sully's Notre Dame?

....or, for that matter, Sedefhar Mehmet Aga's Blue Mosque?

And that's just Architecture!

[1] The physical manifestation and expression of what I call "Allegory
by Example."

[JohnO]

On Saturday, 16 March 2013 23:26:47 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
<snip>
> >> Hows that mining programme of the Nats going for you, JohnO?
>
> >Held up by Labour/Green opposition. Too bad Labour/Green are preventing this opportunity to create some jobs.
>
> Perhaps you could explain how Labour / Green are stopping the
> government from putting legislation through - or forced the governmetn
> to take their eye off the ball with Soplid Energy for being so hands
> off Solid Energy (while grabbing $30 million in dividends even while
> the company was in trouble) that they has lost New Zealand many
> millions of value . . .

Have you not been paying attention or are you just a bit dimwitted?

[geopelia]

"colp" <co...@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message

news:509110e0-31ab-480f...@googlegroups.com...

On Sunday, March 17, 2013 1:51:25 AM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:
> From the Daily Mail. What do you expect?

You do know about ad hominems, right?

The point is that it explains why Judas had to point him out. Why did none
of the servants on the Pharisees recognise him?

..............

Unless they were his followers, why would they recognise him? I doubt if he
went about with a halo, as the pictures show him.
................................

"God is infinitely changeable, and can assume all forms at will. The Son
proceeds from the most perfect of these modifications of the Divine nature
and is conceptional with that modification, but not with the Divine nature
itself. The Son is not God, therefore, in the full sense, nor has He all the
power of God. He cannot change Himself, though He can be changed at will by
God."

The Clementine writings

........................
Isn't the Son of one substance with the Father? The early church debated
that quite a lot.

There is the Transfiguration, of course. But in his earthly life he would
have been much like any other Jew of that time.
.........................

> And if that is really a genuine Egyptian manuscript, it could very well be
> fiction. Look at all the vampire stories today. Does anyone believe
> vampires
> really exist?

Vlad the Impaler was a real historical character, and blood drinking crops
up quite a bit in religion.

...............
But the Undead who live for hundreds of years etc are fiction.
...................

> Or take the Odyssey. It may very well describe a real king of Ithaca, but
> does anyone believe all the incidents on the voyage? Circe, Cyclops etc?

http://www.claytonbailey.com/cyclops.htm

Who on earth thought up that? Creepy.
But animals are sometimes born with one cyclops style eye, so human infants
could be born the same.
I doubt if they would survive long though.

[Pooh]

"JohnO" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f53d85a8-12de-4908...@googlegroups.com...

Please don't insult the dimwited by lavishing such praise on Dickhead JohnO.

Pooh

[Allistar]

Teaching religion in a comparitive way is a good idea. It may mean that
certain monotheisic religions get a slot one morning in June because of the
other thousands of religions to be taught about.

The key is that children are not taught that there *is* a god (which ever
one that means).

> But on the question is there a god.
>
> If you wanted to go up to the stone Galleries
> at Saint Pauls in London in January.
> If there was a God don't you think God would have delayed repairs until
> February?

--
A.

[geopelia]

"Allistar" <m...@hiddenaddress.com> wrote in message

news:y4adnTb1wvfZ5dvM...@giganews.com...

If there is a God he must have looked after St Pauls in the Blitz.
How that huge church still stood when everything else around was flattened
or burnt must have been a miracle.

[colp]

On Monday, March 18, 2013 2:12:10 AM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:

> Unless they were his followers, why would they recognise him?

Because of his notoriety.

If someone is causing you strife, the first logical thing to do is to collect information about them. Are we supposed to believe that from the multitude sent to execute the arrest, none of them has seen him at the temple or preaching in the city?

> Isn't the Son of one substance with the Father? The early church debated
> that quite a lot.

It's an explanation of Stephen's vision that was agreeable to monotheists.

[liberty]

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 19:22:18 +1300, "geopelia" <geop...@nowhere.com>
wrote:

Hard to disagree with you.
And what inspires man to build such an amazing cathedral.
Geopelia did you go up to the stone Galleries?
http://www.sphericalimages.com/stpauls/virtual_tour.htm

[geopelia]

"liberty" <libe...@live.com> wrote in message
news:45odk8dcucsl9eaoc...@4ax.com...

I need Adobe for that website, and Trend Micro blocks installing
it."Suspicious program".

I went right up to the cross on the top. The last part was up a ladder. That
was in the early 1950s.

The earlier Cathedral was lost in the Great Fire of London. Just before
that, much of the population died in the plague.
Sir Christopher Wren built St Pauls. I like his epitaph "If you want to see
his memorial look around you". (In Latin of course).
(You know that of course, it's just for anyone who doesn't).

[geopelia]

"colp" <co...@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message

news:88415039-0559-4341...@googlegroups.com...

Why are the Gospels so simple, but all the debates later so complicated?
The Trinity has always baffled me. I'd better stick to St Patrick's version
with the shamrock.

[colp]

On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 1:21:04 AM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:

> Why are the Gospels so simple, but all the debates later so complicated?

Because the Bible has been used to implement the opposite of the what the gospels taught.

> The Trinity has always baffled me.

It's monotheism's attempt to explain away it's own disproof.

[Liberty]

On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 01:06:11 +1300, "geopelia" <geop...@nowhere.com> wrote:



>>>
>>>If there is a God he must have looked after St Pauls in the Blitz.
>>
>>>How that huge church still stood when everything else around was flattened
>>>or burnt must have been a miracle.
>>>
>> Hard to disagree with you.
>> And what inspires man to build such an amazing cathedral.
>> Geopelia did you go up to the stone Galleries?
>> http://www.sphericalimages.com/stpauls/virtual_tour.htm
>
>I need Adobe for that website, and Trend Micro blocks installing
>it."Suspicious program".

It's not Suspicious.
It amazing views of the cathedral without having to climb steps.

>
>I went right up to the cross on the top. The last part was up a ladder. That
>was in the early 1950s.

It would have been well worth it.
And far more fulfilling than the current fad of getting onto a Ferris wheel.

[geopelia]

"colp" <co...@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message

news:c6de2db0-885b-4442...@googlegroups.com...

Why do churches want to complicate things so much?
It's just "Love God and love thy neighbour" really, isn't it?

Do children today still hear about the Good Samaritan?
I wonder how that is told to Irish children.
Or to English children, with so many Moslems there now.

It looks as though the right Pope has been chosen. Let's hope he has enough
time left to make a difference.

[Pooh]

"geopelia" <geop...@nowhere.com> wrote in message

news:ki7v6v$akb$1...@dont-email.me...

A lot of what the church did was to maintain control. The New Testament only
got texts that were approved by the hierachy. I'd love to know what the
Vatican library has locked away for the exclusive use of church scholars.

Pooh

[geopelia]

"Liberty" <libe...@live.com> wrote in message
news:6suek8t1hnlj0l9ul...@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 01:06:11 +1300, "geopelia" <geop...@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>>
>>>>If there is a God he must have looked after St Pauls in the Blitz.
>>>
>>>>How that huge church still stood when everything else around was
>>>>flattened
>>>>or burnt must have been a miracle.
>>>>
>>> Hard to disagree with you.
>>> And what inspires man to build such an amazing cathedral.
>>> Geopelia did you go up to the stone Galleries?
>>> http://www.sphericalimages.com/stpauls/virtual_tour.htm
>>
>>I need Adobe for that website, and Trend Micro blocks installing
>>it."Suspicious program".
> It's not Suspicious.
> It amazing views of the cathedral without having to climb steps.

Trend micro finds a lot of things suspicious!

>
>>
>>I went right up to the cross on the top. The last part was up a ladder.
>>That
>>was in the early 1950s.
> It would have been well worth it.
> And far more fulfilling than the current fad of getting onto a Ferris
> wheel.

That wasn't there when I was in London. But we had the Skylon and the Dome
of Discovery.
I think those have gone now.
What is that odd building that looks like a rocket about to take off? That
wasn't there in my day.

The Whispering Gallery is great!
But now and then somebody adds a suprising word to the priest's commentary,
and everybody tries to look innocent.

In those days, you had to pay a bit more at each new level.

[geopelia]

"Pooh" <pa...@bigots.lie> wrote in message
news:ki81pi$r1h$1...@dont-email.me...

Isn't there a Gospel of Thomas? There are probably other gospels yet to be
found somewhere.

I sometimes wonder what the church would be like now if the Arians had
prevailed.

[colp]

On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:01:03 AM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:

> Why do churches want to complicate things so much?
> It's just "Love God and love thy neighbour" really, isn't it?

Knowledge is important. In the Bible "God" is usually the translation of Elohim, which is is plural word, while the tetragrammaton refers to a singular deity.

> It looks as though the right Pope has been chosen. Let's hope he has enough
> time left to make a difference.

According to St Malachy he's the last one.

[geopelia]

"colp" <co...@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message

news:917b7231-ea0c-49d0...@googlegroups.com...

> On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:01:03 AM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:
>
>> Why do churches want to complicate things so much?
>> It's just "Love God and love thy neighbour" really, isn't it?
>
> Knowledge is important. In the Bible "God" is usually the translation of
> Elohim, which is is plural word, while the tetragrammaton refers to a
> singular deity.

Does Elohim mean Gods, or does it refer to angelic powers? I googled the
Catholic Encyclopaedia, which just says it's a name for God.

>> It looks as though the right Pope has been chosen. Let's hope he has
>> enough
>> time left to make a difference.
>
> According to St Malachy he's the last one.

(Is that where the word Malarkey comes from?)

I suppose he could be the last Pope. Perhaps they will decide on a
democratic committee instead when he goes.
They scrapped Latin, though they seem to be using it again just now. It's a
pity, it is a lovely language and people all over the world can use it.

Who knows what they will do next?

[Fred]

On 15/03/2013 12:14 p.m., JohnO wrote:
> On Friday, 15 March 2013 11:42:04 UTC+13, Allistar wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>
>> You're not concerned that your children are being taught the christian myths
>> as if they are fact? That any critical thought with regards to that is
>> discouraged?
>
> No. We discuss this stuff at home. They know what I feel and I just tell them they can make up their own minds but I encourage them to consider all angles. This seems to be working out fine.
>


I was educated at a Catholic school. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[JohnO]

Well, there are shit schools and great schools in all the systems we have in NZ, and times have changed since you were at school.

The schools our kids are at are very, very good with no sign of the politicised PC crap some of my friends are seeing at their kids' schools.

[Rich80105]

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:15:12 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Perhaps such excellence is the reason National are considering
subsidising private schools being set up in competition to existing
schools - and allowing thenm to keep the money if the school fails. Do
you fancy having Bishop Tamaki determining school policy for your kids
(and then closing the school and keeping government subsidies?

[colp]

On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 11:21:24 PM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:
> Does Elohim mean Gods, or does it refer to angelic powers? I googled the
> Catholic Encyclopaedia, which just says it's a name for God.

Catholics are monotheists, but it's a plural term:

"Let _us_ make man in _our_ image" - Genesis 1:26

> Who knows what they will do next?

The religion will disappear. With the gospel of Barnabus being validated and now this Egyptian text being made public, it's just a matter of time.

[Allistar]

Rich80105 wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:15:12 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, 21 March 2013 08:35:58 UTC+13, Fred wrote:
>>> On 15/03/2013 12:14 p.m., JohnO wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Friday, 15 March 2013 11:42:04 UTC+13, Allistar wrote:
>>>
>>> > <snip>
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> You're not concerned that your children are being taught the
>>> >> christian myths
>>>
>>> >> as if they are fact? That any critical thought with regards to that
>>> >> is
>>>
>>> >> discouraged?
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > No. We discuss this stuff at home. They know what I feel and I just
>>> > tell them they can make up their own minds but I encourage them to
>>> > consider all angles. This seems to be working out fine.
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was educated at a Catholic school. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
>>
>>Well, there are shit schools and great schools in all the systems we have
>>in NZ, and times have changed since you were at school.
>>
>>The schools our kids are at are very, very good with no sign of the
>>politicised PC crap some of my friends are seeing at their kids' schools.
>
> Perhaps such excellence is the reason National are considering
> subsidising private schools being set up in competition to existing
> schools

The government subsidises public schools, what's wrong wit a PPP with
private schools?

> - and allowing thenm to keep the money if the school fails. Do
> you fancy having Bishop Tamaki determining school policy for your kids
> (and then closing the school and keeping government subsidies?

I wouldn't send my children to such a school. If you didn't agree with the
teachings of a school why would you send your kids there?
--
A.

[JohnO]

On Thursday, 21 March 2013 09:32:54 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:15:12 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>

<snip>

> Perhaps such excellence is the reason National are considering
> subsidising private schools being set up in competition to existing
> schools - and allowing thenm to keep the money if the school fails.

If the school fails it can't keep anything at all, you dimwit.

> Do
> you fancy having Bishop Tamaki determining school policy for your kids
> (and then closing the school and keeping government subsidies?

No, but if it happened I would move my kids to a different school. I can do that because we don't have Labour telling me which school I have to send them to.

[Rich80105]

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:49:40 +1300, Allistar <m...@hiddenaddress.com>
wrote:

If a public school closes it is still owned by the government.
Equipment and even buildings can be moved to where they are needed,
and the land and any remaining buildings sold. The CHarter School
model enables an 'entrepreneur" to get government funding for a school
building, start a school, find that it is not succesful, but still
keep the subsidised buildings. That seems like crony capitalism to me
- you probably think that provided there is a contract the government
can spend taxpayer money however they please . . .

>> - and allowing thenm to keep the money if the school fails. Do
>> you fancy having Bishop Tamaki determining school policy for your kids
>> (and then closing the school and keeping government subsidies?
>
>I wouldn't send my children to such a school. If you didn't agree with the
>teachings of a school why would you send your kids there?

If there were enough people like you the school would fail and teh
governmetn money spent in helping the school get set up would stay
with the good Bishop . . .

[geopelia]

"colp" <co...@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message

news:ff71e876-3250-43d3...@googlegroups.com...

> On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 11:21:24 PM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:
>> Does Elohim mean Gods, or does it refer to angelic powers? I googled the
>> Catholic Encyclopaedia, which just says it's a name for God.
>
> Catholics are monotheists, but it's a plural term:
>
> "Let _us_ make man in _our_ image" - Genesis 1:26

At the time the KJV Bible was translated, didn't the King always say "We"
when he meant himself?
Is God using the plural term, or is it the translators?

Is God speaking as the Trinity, before Jesus was born?

>
>> Who knows what they will do next?
> The religion will disappear. With the gospel of Barnabus being validated
> and now this Egyptian text being made public, it's just a matter of time.

That's Barnabas. There's quite a lot on Google.
Interesting stuff, comparing it with the Koran. It seems to forecast
Mohammed.
I wonder what Moslems think of it.

Some churches just follow the gospels, and some have built themselves a
whole religion on top of the simple gospel words.
Take your pick.
God, if He exists, will no doubt reveal himself at the Last Judgement, if
there is to be one.

[Rich80105]

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 15:06:48 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thursday, 21 March 2013 09:32:54 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:15:12 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <john...@gmail.com>
><snip>
>
>> Perhaps such excellence is the reason National are considering
>> subsidising private schools being set up in competition to existing
>> schools - and allowing thenm to keep the money if the school fails.
>
>If the school fails it can't keep anything at all, you dimwit.

that not what has been reported elsewhere.

>> Do
>> you fancy having Bishop Tamaki determining school policy for your kids
>> (and then closing the school and keeping government subsidies?
>
>No, but if it happened I would move my kids to a different school. I can do that because we don't have Labour telling me which school I have to send them to.

Labour have been more active than National in removing or extending
school zones, and insisting on a process for selection of pupils for
"popular" schools that is not discriminatory. I guess facts are a
foreign country to you, JohnO

[Pooh]

"Rich80105" <rich...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ddskk8dkp88rnf8t6...@4ax.com...

If what you say is the truth (unlikely I know) why didn't Labour give
parents choices. Moving school zones is nothing less than rearranging
deckchairs on the Titanic Dickie. It achieved nothing much like all the
learning groups Labour funded to give more New Zealanders qualifications.

Pooh

[Allistar]

I don't think any taxpayer money should be spent on such things. I also
don't think the state should have a monopoly on providing education.

A better system is one where parents are gien vouchers for educating their
childen and they can choose where to "spend" them. Schools would be funded
on a basis of that. It would encourage schools to compete for students, and
that would happen by providing good education.

>>> - and allowing thenm to keep the money if the school fails. Do
>>> you fancy having Bishop Tamaki determining school policy for your kids
>>> (and then closing the school and keeping government subsidies?
>>
>>I wouldn't send my children to such a school. If you didn't agree with the
>>teachings of a school why would you send your kids there?
>
> If there were enough people like you the school would fail and teh
> governmetn money spent in helping the school get set up would stay
> with the good Bishop . . .

If a charter school fails then what's left should be divvied up in
proportiomn to the investment made.
--
A.

[colp]

On Thursday, March 21, 2013 3:33:44 PM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:

> Is God using the plural term, or is it the translators?

The KJV translators have done a reasonable job of translating Gen 1:26 given that the original text doesn't translate very well into English. This is because while the Hebrew noun Elohim is plural, the corresponding verbs are singular. Usually in Hebrew plural nouns have plural verbs, and singular nouns have singular verbs.

> Is God speaking as the Trinity, before Jesus was born?

The characteristics of the Trinity have little in common with Elohim. Elohim has both male and female physical forms, while the Trinity only has male, and the Anglicans officially deny any physical form whatsoever. Elohim can include men like Moses, but the Trinity only has the "son". Elohim can include angels (messengers), unlike the Trinity.

> I wonder what Moslems think of it.

They seem to have quite a positive view of it, eg "essential reading for any seeker of the truth".

> Some churches just follow the gospels, and some have built themselves a
> whole religion on top of the simple gospel words.
>
> Take your pick.

All the churches are based on the doctrine of vicarious sacrifice, which is invalidated by the gospel of Barnabus.

> God, if He exists, will no doubt reveal himself at the Last Judgement, if
> there is to be one.

Revelations are typically only observed by small groups of people.

[geopelia]

"colp" <co...@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message

news:d77f727c-f972-4dcd...@googlegroups.com...

On Thursday, March 21, 2013 3:33:44 PM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:

> Is God using the plural term, or is it the translators?

The KJV translators have done a reasonable job of translating Gen 1:26 given
that the original text doesn't translate very well into English. This is
because while the Hebrew noun Elohim is plural, the corresponding verbs are
singular. Usually in Hebrew plural nouns have plural verbs, and singular
nouns have singular verbs.

> Is God speaking as the Trinity, before Jesus was born?

The characteristics of the Trinity have little in common with Elohim. Elohim
has both male and female physical forms, while the Trinity only has male,
and the Anglicans officially deny any physical form whatsoever. Elohim can
include men like Moses, but the Trinity only has the "son". Elohim can
include angels (messengers), unlike the Trinity.

..........................
Jesus had a physical human form, didn't he, being born a human baby.

...........................

> I wonder what Moslems think of it.

They seem to have quite a positive view of it, eg "essential reading for any
seeker of the truth".

> Some churches just follow the gospels, and some have built themselves a
> whole religion on top of the simple gospel words.
>
> Take your pick.

All the churches are based on the doctrine of vicarious sacrifice, which is
invalidated by the gospel of Barnabus.

...............
You mean Jesus sacrificed himself for our sins? I wonder if many people
still believe that.

...........

> God, if He exists, will no doubt reveal himself at the Last Judgement, if
> there is to be one.

Revelations are typically only observed by small groups of people.

........................

Revelation in the Bible is a puzzle. I've seen various interpretations of it
involving modern countries etc.

[colp]

On Sunday, March 24, 2013 1:36:00 AM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:
> Jesus had a physical human form, didn't he, being born a human baby.

Humans are creatures of Rome, from Cicero's homo humanus. The Roman universalist religion (Catholic/katholika means universal) is why civil (Rome-derived) cultures refer to humans as if they were the be-all and end-all of mankind.

> Revelation in the Bible is a puzzle. I've seen various interpretations of it
> involving modern countries etc.

It was directed to the people of Asia minor, who had rejected Paul and Pauline Christianity.

[geopelia]

"colp" <co...@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message

news:7788d773-6635-4de2...@googlegroups.com...

> On Sunday, March 24, 2013 1:36:00 AM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:
>> Jesus had a physical human form, didn't he, being born a human baby.
>
> Humans are creatures of Rome, from Cicero's homo humanus. The Roman
> universalist religion (Catholic/katholika means universal) is why civil
> (Rome-derived) cultures refer to humans as if they were the be-all and
> end-all of mankind.

So far we humans are the end. Perhaps some superior being may evolve from
us. (Genetic modification?)
I doubt it. I think we are a dead end, like the Neanderthals. Climate change
may finish us, if war and overpopulation don't.
But evolution was not known in those days.

>> Revelation in the Bible is a puzzle. I've seen various interpretations of
>> it
>> involving modern countries etc.
>
> It was directed to the people of Asia minor, who had rejected Paul and
> Pauline Christianity.

Ephesians and Galatians? Aren't they in what is now Turkey?
Would the people there have been following some version of the Greek or
Roman religion? Diana of the Ephesians?

Modern interpretations bring in Russia, America etc.
One of those books that can mean whatever the reader wants it to mean.

[colp]

On Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:06:43 AM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:
> So far we humans are the end.

Only the end of humanity. Mankind lives on.

> Ephesians and Galatians? Aren't they in what is now Turkey?

Yes.

> Would the people there have been following some version of the Greek or
> Roman religion? Diana of the Ephesians?

Yes. Paul was also rejected there.

Unto the angel of the assembly (ekklesia) of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:2-3

[geopelia]

"geopelia" <geop...@nowhere.com> wrote in message

news:kil8tq$3d2$1...@dont-email.me...

Having trouble answering your answer, "Header line too long". I'll try again
tomorrow.

[geopelia]

Still trying to answer your post of 25.03 but keep getting it rejected
"Header line too long"

I asked if the verse referred to St Paul.

[colp]

It does. Acts 19:1-9, 2 Timothy 1:15

[geopelia]

"geopelia" <geop...@nowhere.com> wrote in message

news:kiqe6q$eil$2...@dont-email.me...

>
> Still trying to answer your post of 25.03 but keep getting it rejected
> "Header line too long"
>
> I asked if the verse referred to St Paul.
>

Thank you for the references. I still get "Header Line too long" when trying
to reply.

[colp]

On Wednesday, March 27, 2013 12:11:32 AM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:
> "geopelia" <geop...@nowhere.com> wrote in message

> Thank you for the references. I still get "Header Line too long" when trying
> to reply.

No problem. The error might go away if you start a new topic.

[geopelia]

"colp" <co...@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message

news:c57a052e-223b-452b...@googlegroups.com...

I'll see if that fixes it.

[geopelia]

"geopelia" <geop...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:...

That worked. Let's see if anyone has anything to add.

[Liberty]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 23:15:41 +1200, Every All Where
<A...@any.where.ver> wrote:

>On , , Sun, 17 Mar 2013 00:53:45 -0700 (PDT), Re: HABEMUS PAPAM, JohnO
><john...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, 16 March 2013 23:26:47 UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
>><snip>
>>> >> Hows that mining programme of the Nats going for you, JohnO?
>>>
>>> >Held up by Labour/Green opposition. Too bad Labour/Green are preventing this opportunity to create some jobs.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you could explain how Labour / Green are stopping the
>>> government from putting legislation through - or forced the governmetn
>>> to take their eye off the ball with Soplid Energy for being so hands
>>> off Solid Energy (while grabbing $30 million in dividends even while
>>> the company was in trouble) that they has lost New Zealand many
>>> millions of value . . .
>>
>>Have you not been paying attention or are you just a bit dimwitted?
>
>You;re the only dimwit here.
>So stupid you thought we wouldn't find out about your Family court hearings.

You post crap.

[Liberty]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 23:36:56 +1200, Every All Where
<A...@any.where.ver> wrote:

>On , , Sat, 16 Mar 2013 15:24:04 -0700 (PDT), Re: HABEMUS PAPAM, colp
><co...@solder.ath.cx> wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, March 17, 2013 1:51:25 AM UTC+13, geopelia wrote:
>>> From the Daily Mail. What do you expect?
>>
>>You do know about ad hominems, right?
>>
>>The point is that it explains why Judas had to point him out. Why did none of the servants on the Pharisees recognise him?
>
>Because it was night time.
>The betrayal of Christ occurred after the Last Supper.
>It was dark and Judas wanted to make sure he received his 30 pieces of silver by
>identifying the right person, so he ostentatiously kissed Christ.
>Have you even read the Gospels or do you only subscribe to conspiracy theories?

The resident Jesus freak has a preach.

[Liberty]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 23:08:56 +1200, Every All Where
<A...@any.where.ver> wrote:

>On , , Sat, 16 Mar 2013 11:22:01 +1300, Re: HABEMUS PAPAM, Liberty
><libe...@live.com> wrote:
>

>
>>But on the question is there a god.
>>
>>If you wanted to go up to the stone Galleries
>> at Saint Pauls in London in January.
>>If there was a God don't you think God would have delayed repairs until
>>February?
>
>You've never been to England so the question is moot.

Been twice
Have you ever been out of Waitara?

[Liberty]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 16:14:25 +1200, Every All Where
<A...@any.where.ver> wrote:

>On , , Mon, 20 May 2013 00:03:57 +1200, Re: HABEMUS PAPAM, Liberty

><libe...@live.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 19 May 2013 23:08:56 +1200, Every All Where
>><A...@any.where.ver> wrote:
>>
>>>On , , Sat, 16 Mar 2013 11:22:01 +1300, Re: HABEMUS PAPAM, Liberty
>>><libe...@live.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>
>>>>But on the question is there a god.
>>>>
>>>>If you wanted to go up to the stone Galleries
>>>> at Saint Pauls in London in January.
>>>>If there was a God don't you think God would have delayed repairs until
>>>>February?
>>>
>>>You've never been to England so the question is moot.
>>
>>Been twice
>

>You just can't stop lying, can you.

I have traveled to england twice. No big deal lots of people do.
I have every intention of going again.
Now run along you seedy little septic.

[Liberty]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 16:15:09 +1200, Every All Where
<A...@any.where.ver> wrote:

>On , , Sun, 19 May 2013 23:57:14 +1200, Re: HABEMUS PAPAM, Liberty

>Your parents were mother and son.
Such a vile little septic

[Liberty]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 16:16:42 +1200, Every All Where
<A...@any.where.ver> wrote:

>On , , Mon, 20 May 2013 00:00:07 +1200, Re: HABEMUS PAPAM, Liberty

>I am glad you don't post about your jail time.

What Jail time?
you are nothing but a spineless lying little shit.
As proven twice in another thread
"Scooter i wait your apology "
what a loser

[Rich80105]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:44:12 +1200, Liberty <libe...@live.com>
wrote:

Even if true, you may be better to try to set a good example, rather
than competing for vileness . . .