Re: Laptop serial lookup?
Squiggle
I see you got yourself a new toy Misfit. :)
EMB
> I see you got yourself a new toy Misfit. :)
And a right good one he got - it's got the hi-res 1400x1050 LCD panel in it.
Squiggle
Yeah, I was rather interested in that one, but i'm still holding out for
a cheap X31.
~misfit~
> I see you got yourself a new toy Misfit. :)
LOL, Yeah, or at least the bank did, until I can sell my desktop. As EMB
said, it's got the hi-res 1400x1050 15" Samsung panel.
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
~misfit~
Gawd, I hope we weren't bidding against each other. Picking it up tomorrow,
I have a feeling about it, that something's not right. I hope I'm wrong...
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
Squiggle
No, wasn't me.. i was just about to bid when the cover on the conduit on
my desk fell off and my feet got swamped with cables. By the time I'd
sorted that I looked at the price and decided that a temporarily
(hopefully) unemployed student shouldn't be bidding on a laptop.
~misfit~
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs Squiggle wrote:
>>> EMB wrote:
>>>> Squiggle wrote:
>>>>> I see you got yourself a new toy Misfit. :)
>>>> And a right good one he got - it's got the hi-res 1400x1050 LCD
>>>> panel in it.
>>> Yeah, I was rather interested in that one, but i'm still holding out
>>> for a cheap X31.
>>
>> Gawd, I hope we weren't bidding against each other. Picking it up
>> tomorrow, I have a feeling about it, that something's not right. I
>> hope I'm wrong...
>
> on my desk fell off and my feet got swamped with cables. By the time
> I'd sorted that I looked at the price and decided that a temporarily
> (hopefully) unemployed student shouldn't be bidding on a laptop.
Oh for such wisdom! <g>
In my case I'm hoping to pinch the panel out of it for my R51 and sell it
again with the lower res panel in it. Going from my old 19" 1280x1024
desktop monitor to 1024x768 has been rather limiting. All being well (if I
can do the swap OK, the R51 has a better CPU/chipset and RAM speed than the
R40) going to 1400x1050 will be great. From what I've seen the 1400x1050
panels alone sell for nearly as much as I paid for the whole R40. With luck
I'll do the transplant and have the R40 sold again before the bank want
interest on the money.
All I need now is for a keyboard for the R51 to fall into my lap. This one's
getting worn and the R40 one doesn't fit.
I miss the configurability of desktops but I've found a great toy; Notebook
Hardware Control. I've tweaked the vcore voltages of the various speedsteps,
reducing some by as much as 0.2V. It took a couple of evenings to stress
test each setting/speedstep until I was happy it was stable. However, it
runs *WAY* cooler now. Also, using the same software I've set the parameters
for the fan operation so that it ramps up ~1,000rpm per 10 degree rise in
temp. Now it almost never hits 50 and is pretty quiet whereas, in stock
trim, the CPU would get up to 70 degrees or higher and then the fan would
kick in sounding like a vacuum cleaner.
I've read reports of people getting over a third longer operating time on
battery from tweaking the voltages with NHC. I'm almost always on AC so for
me it's more about power consumption and heat. I've dropped the idle vcore
by 0.23V, the power consumption by 3 - 4W and the temp by 10 degrees.
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
~misfit~
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs Squiggle wrote:
>> No, wasn't me.. i was just about to bid when the cover on the conduit
>> on my desk fell off and my feet got swamped with cables. By the time
>> I'd sorted that I looked at the price and decided that a temporarily
>> (hopefully) unemployed student shouldn't be bidding on a laptop.
>
> Oh for such wisdom! <g>
>
> In my case I'm hoping to pinch the panel out of it for my R51 and
> sell it again with the lower res panel in it.
I picked it up this morning from the shop. Speaking to the guy in the shop,
ran it to test, seems that it's just the battery that's duff.
However... When I checked the serial at IBM it said "wireless upgradeable"
and 256MB RAM. The auction said 512 RAM and in a reply to a question he said
it had WiFi. I thought that it had been upgraded. Well, the RAM has been
upgraded but there is no mini PCI WiFi adapter installed. So I got the
lackey to get the boss on the phone and told him it was misrepresentation.
He told me that it had the little wireless symbol on the LED status panel so
it had wireless. I told him that; a) The wireless symbol doesn't light up
meaning there is no wireless fitted. b) The sticker below the keyboard said
"Pentium M" and if it had wireless it would say "Centrino" and c) There was
no mini PCI card fitted under the cover.
He said that he'd stated there was wireless in good faith and that it was
therefore a legal contract. I said it wasn't good enough, I wanted wireless
fitted, the auction *was* a contract and he'd said there was wireless. He
mumbled something about an outfit in Onehunga who do his PC work, he'd
contact them but they're always busy...
I told him I could fit a wireless LAN mini PCI card myself and would be
quite happy to do so for $100 off the price. I told him it'd cost me that,
I'd fit it for free of course. LOL, we settled on $50 off.
Now, there's a wireless LAN mini PCI card for an R40 on my other desk that
doesn't owe me anything, three screws and a clip and it's done. :-) There's
also a 1.6GHz Pentium M Banias CPU that should be a good upgrade from the
1.4 Banias that's in it. ($1.50 + $5 postage from Trademe a wee while ago,
it had some bent pins but I've straightened them...)
The panel looks great. I hope it'll fit my R51. I'll have to make sure I've
got a couple hours uninterupted and anxiety-free before I disembowel them
both and find out.
Wish me luck.....
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
John S
SNIP ...
> I miss the configurability of desktops but I've found a great toy; Notebook
> Hardware Control. I've tweaked the vcore voltages of the various speedsteps,
> reducing some by as much as 0.2V. It took a couple of evenings to stress
> test each setting/speedstep until I was happy it was stable. However, it
> runs *WAY* cooler now. Also, using the same software I've set the parameters
> for the fan operation so that it ramps up ~1,000rpm per 10 degree rise in
> temp. Now it almost never hits 50 and is pretty quiet whereas, in stock
> trim, the CPU would get up to 70 degrees or higher and then the fan would
> kick in sounding like a vacuum cleaner.
>
> I've read reports of people getting over a third longer operating time on
> battery from tweaking the voltages with NHC. I'm almost always on AC so for
> me it's more about power consumption and heat. I've dropped the idle vcore
> by 0.23V, the power consumption by 3 - 4W and the temp by 10 degrees.
>
> Cheers,
Sorry to butt in with a bit of OT, but I'd love to know how to reduce the
power consumption (temperature) of my R51 laptop.
The only way I can do this is to run it on the battery. On AC it thinks
it's a miniature fan heater, and it just doesn't seem to me that it should
be this way. I would quite happily sacrifice some processing speed as a
tradeoff for cooler running, since I never do anything which requires speed
anyway.
Don't suppose you could possibly point me in the direction of a tutorial or
info site where I could get a few clues about the subject?
Cheers and TIA
John S
EMB
> Sorry to butt in with a bit of OT, but I'd love to know how to reduce the
> power consumption (temperature) of my R51 laptop.
>
> The only way I can do this is to run it on the battery. On AC it thinks
> it's a miniature fan heater, and it just doesn't seem to me that it should
> be this way. I would quite happily sacrifice some processing speed as a
> tradeoff for cooler running, since I never do anything which requires speed
> anyway.
Double click on the battery icon in the system tray and play with the
settings for use with mains power.
~misfit~
> On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:59:39 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:
>
> SNIP ...
>> I miss the configurability of desktops but I've found a great toy;
>> Notebook Hardware Control. I've tweaked the vcore voltages of the
>> various speedsteps, reducing some by as much as 0.2V. It took a
>> couple of evenings to stress test each setting/speedstep until I was
>> happy it was stable. However, it runs *WAY* cooler now. Also, using
>> the same software I've set the parameters for the fan operation so
>> that it ramps up ~1,000rpm per 10 degree rise in temp. Now it almost
>> never hits 50 and is pretty quiet whereas, in stock trim, the CPU
>> would get up to 70 degrees or higher and then the fan would kick in
>> sounding like a vacuum cleaner.
>>
>> I've read reports of people getting over a third longer operating
>> time on battery from tweaking the voltages with NHC. I'm almost
>> always on AC so for me it's more about power consumption and heat.
>> I've dropped the idle vcore by 0.23V, the power consumption by 3 -
>> 4W and the temp by 10 degrees.
>>
>> Cheers,
>
> Sorry to butt in with a bit of OT,
Seriously, your post is about as non-OT as any thread in this group could
be. :-)
> but I'd love to know how to reduce
> the power consumption (temperature) of my R51 laptop.
The type of CPU makes a big difference. They can have ither the older Banais
or the better Dothan model of Pentium M. The Dothan has lower voltage
requirements.
> The only way I can do this is to run it on the battery. On AC it
> thinks it's a miniature fan heater, and it just doesn't seem to me
> that it should be this way. I would quite happily sacrifice some
> processing speed as a tradeoff for cooler running, since I never do
> anything which requires speed anyway.
>
> Don't suppose you could possibly point me in the direction of a
> tutorial or info site where I could get a few clues about the subject?
I have two URLs for you that will keep you bust for a couple days of your
spare time:
The first URL will allow you to download the most excellent Notebook
Hardware Control programme. On it's own, in minutes, you can set the highest
and lowest speed you'd like your laptop to run at on AC and on batteries.
Play with it a bit further and, if you're a tweaker (I can give
instructions. <g>) you can lower the core voltage of your CPU for each
speed. It takes a wee while as each setting has to be stress-tested to
ensure that it's stable. However, it's well worth it. My machine spends most
of it's time idling at 600MHz. The default core voltage was 0.972V and the
machine idled with a CPU temp in the high 50s. I've managed to reduce the
voltage at 6x to 0.748V, stress-tested and stable. It runs 10 degrees
cooler.
The second URL will give you a small script for Notebook Hardware Control to
enable the ACPI CPU fan control functions for your laptop. It allows you to
set four temperature 'zones' and the speed you want the fan to run for each.
You can set the up-step temp and the down-step temp.
For instance, my fan doesn't come on until 48 degress (a lot lower temp than
the IBM default) and it stays on, at low revs until the temp drops below 43
degrees. That's simple the first of the 'zones'. If the temp hits 78 degrees
then the fan will do it's vacuum cleaner impersination, running at 100%
until the temp drops to 73, at which stage the fan will drop into the next
lower zone, running at around 60% speed. And so on....
When I got this machine the fan didn't come on until the temp hit the high
60s, then it revved it's arse off. It's so much better now.
This *is* nz.comp, and we're talking about comps. Feel free to ask if you
have trouble or need help setting it up. :-)
--
Shaun.
~misfit~
If you're talking about the advanced features of IBM/Lenovo's Battery
Maximiser, ThinkPad Power Management, then John's out of luck. The R51
doesn't support it, it started with the R52. :-(
http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=52
Supported systems:
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
~misfit~
>>>> EMB wrote:
>>>>> Squiggle wrote:
>>>>>> I see you got yourself a new toy Misfit. :)
>>>>> And a right good one he got - it's got the hi-res 1400x1050 LCD
>>>>> panel in it.
>
Well bugger me with a baseball bat! I've spent a very frustrating evening
swapping panels between the R40 and the R51. I dismantled the R40, removed
the 1400x1050 panel, then put it aside, dismantled my R51, removed the
1048x768 panel, fitted the hi-res and re-mantled it.
NFG! :-( The backlight on the panel came on and the machine booted into XP
but no display. Not being very impressed by the robustness of the signal
ribbon connector on the back of the panel I proceeded to dismantle it again,
re-seat it, remantle it and try again. Still no luck.
I was so intent on my work that I forgot to take my painkillers for the
early evening so now am in bloody agony (they keep me awake so I don't like
to take them late) from craning over the desk, peering at the service manual
and the machine. I've never struck a laptop that needs to be disassembled as
much as the R51 does just to get to the panel.
To top it all off one of the keys on my already worn keyboard (the 'down
arrow' key) decided it didn't like me repeatedly disemboweling the machine
and it blew it's top. There is now a key missing. Oh well, it could have
been worse I guess, At least it's working again, I'm using it now.
I've got myself into further expense by opening a bottle of wine half an
hour ago that I'll have to replace. A mate dropped of some steak and a nice
Shiraz today, planning on coming around for dinner on Wednesday and having
it with a plate of my freshly picked salad. After my evening I couldn't
resist opening it. I think it cost about $30, I'll have to hunt down a
replacement tomorrow. It's one of the better wines I've had in a while;
Wyndham Estate, George Wyndham Founders Reserve Shiraz 2005. It's twice the
wine (at least) of anything I've had in the last couple of years.
The R40 can wait for another day to be reassembled, I don't have the desire
to tinker with it right now.
--
Shaun.
Enkidu
something not right. It should come on and off as necessary.
Cheers,
Cliff
--
Tax is not theft.
~misfit~
Yes and no. ThinkPads are notoriously fickle in that department, most forums
dedicated to them have a huge percentage of posts about fans being too loud,
or 'pulsing'. Often a simple BIOS upgrade fixes it. (I say "simple" as the
ThinkVantage System Update software will check and upgrade for you
automagically IME.)
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
~misfit~
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs ~misfit~ wrote:
>>>>> EMB wrote:
>>>>>> Squiggle wrote:
>>>>>>> I see you got yourself a new toy Misfit. :)
>>>>>> And a right good one he got - it's got the hi-res 1400x1050 LCD
>>>>>> panel in it.
>>
>> In my case I'm hoping to pinch the panel out of it for my R51
*Now* I've done the reasearch I find that the particular panel that was
fitted to the R40 I bought was never fitted to an R51 machine. It is an
Hitachi unit, FRU# TX38D91VC1FAD and was only ever fitted to the G40, G41
and R40.
In fact, scrolling through the TFT panel database at thinkwiki.org I can't
see a single panel of any size that was fitted to both the R40 and R51.
This, and my experience last night, leads me to believe that it's likely
they have different pinouts on the data connector. :-(
One day I'll learn to do the research *before* I buy the upgrade parts.
(This is part of the reason I've avoided laptops.) Unfortunately the R40 has
a slower RAM bus and doesn't take the Dothan 90nm variant of Pentium M CPUs,
only the hotter, slower Banias 130nm part. However, after looking at that
display on that panel I'm tempted to trade power for a good display. Just
tempted at this stage as I'm already suffering withdrawal symptoms going
from a fast C2D to an older laptop and also, after breaking my R51 keyboard
I'd need to spend yet more money to make *this* machine saleable.
Also I've noticed that the R40 runs hotter than the R51 all over, not just
the CPU. The GPU runs hotter also (and the ATI GPU equiped models are known
to suffer thermal-cycling failure of the soldered BGA between the ATI
graphics subsystem and the mobo) and the HDD runs about 10 degrees hotter.
Ho hum....
--
Shaun.
John S
SNIP
>>
>> Don't suppose you could possibly point me in the direction of a
>> tutorial or info site where I could get a few clues about the subject?
>
> I have two Urls for you that will keep you bust for a couple days of your
Thanks. Sorry for the delay in acknowledging but I've been away from the
computer for a while.
What with the Christmas rush I'll postpone playing with the software you've
suggested, till I have some time to think.
Forgot to say in my earlier post that I had tried the built-in controls.
There is a setting in BIOS which I thought might do the trick (supposedly
offering the same settings on AC as for the battery). This slowed down the
processor, but not to the same extent as when running off battery.
The laptop goes OK, and the fan cycles - (doesn't run all the time); it's
just that I don't like the idea of that amount of heat inside the machine.
Again, many thanks for the helpful post and offer of further assist.
Cheers,
John S
~misfit~
You're welcome John. You can actually install the software and leave it at
defaults for now and it just gives you a couple read-oyts (configurable) in
your systray. I have mine showing CPU temperature, CPU load (five-segment
bar graph) and current CPU speed in MHz. You can play with the voltages
later.
BTW, since I wrote this I've changed laptops from an R51 to an R40. I got
the R40 with a SXGA panel and tried to put the panel in the R51. Alas, I had
no joy. So instead I've upgraded the R40 CPU from 1.4 to 1.6, RAM from 512
to 2GB and HDD from 40GB to 160GB. It's not as fast as the R51 (176 CPU mark
ver.1.0 marks compared to 206) but the panel is excellent.
My point being I've spent the time to drop all the vcore steps for this
machine too. It took the best part of an evening to find the lowest setting
each would run Prime95 for 30 minutes on (then going back up a level, to be
sure to be sure).
The results are that this CPU runs around *20* degrees cooler! I almost
never hear the fan. (Unfortunately NHC doesn't seem to support the
fine-tuning of fan switch-points and hysteresis for the R40 as it did for
the R51.) When Intel make a line of CPUs, as all overclockers know, they're
not all created equally. However, the vcore is set to be stable for the
worst example. With a laptop you can't tweak for speed increase but you
*can* tweak for lower voltage if you install NHC. Intel produce specs that
laptop manufacturers follow that are guaranteed to work with even the
crappiest of CPUs in that line (regardless of stepping). Yet virtually all
CPUs will run perfectly adequately with less voltage (= less heat).
Here are the stable settings I've got this 1.6GHz Pentium M ("Banias")
running at now. Multiplier first, then original vcore, then custom vcore,
tested stable, then raised back up one setting:
16x 1.484V 1.132V
14x 1.420V 1.020V
12x 1.276V 0.908V
10x 1.164V 0.812V
08x 1.036V 0.732V
06x 0.956V 0.716V
As the machine speedsteps it's way through the day it spends most of it's
time at the lower settings. You can see that the voltage reductions are
significant. (I had similarly good settings with my 1.7GHz "Dothan" in the
R51.) The CPU is now truly a cool-running (but just as powerful) chip.
With NHC you can set an alternative speedstep profile with just a few
mouse-clicks, then enable and disble it with three clicks. I have my machine
set to only switch from 10x to 16x during the day on AC (instead of the full
6x - 16x) as it reduces that slight lag you get when the CPU ramps up from
600MHz. With the lower voltage at 10x than previously ran at 6x it runs
cooler now at 1GHz than it used to at 600MHz anyway. When I shut the lid for
the night I untick it and let it drop back to 600MHz, plenty fast enough for
torrenting. (You can set two profiles, on for AC and one for batteries. My
custom for batteries is 6x to 10x. If you like you can reduce the AC
settings as well, of even set it to *not* step and choose the step you'd
like it to stay on. Wonderful little app.)
I'm just bummed out that the R40 seems to be a heat-trap in the HDD area.
The same HDD that ran at 32 - 38 degrees in the R51 runs at 44 - 50 degrees
in this R40, even with swap disabled. That's freaking hot! Hotter than the
CPU most of the time. (Currently CPU: 40, HDD: 44) Seagate specify an
operating temp of 0 - 60 but it's not high summer yet and already I'm
hitting 50 on disk-intensive operations. It's a worry. If it goes over 60,
even for the briefest instant, it'll be stored in the S.M.A.R.T. ROM for
ever and there goes my 5 year warranty that I cherish so much with Seagate
drives. I've racked my brain and can't see a way to cool the HDD, as
inventive as I am. :-(
Oh well, gottta get moving (heh). I'm off for a rubber band ligation at the
SuperClinic. The joys of middle-age.....
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
John S
> I have two URLs for you that will keep you bust for a couple days of your
> spare time:
>
> <http://www.pbus-167.com/>
>
> http://blog.tiensivu.com/aaron/archives/1056-Enable-fine-grained-fan-control-with-NHC-on-Thinkpads.html
>
Hi Shaun,
Have tried the first of these Urls a few times and repeatedly get the
"could not locate remote server" using both Opera and IE. Tried googling
for nhc and eventually found a link to what was claimed to be one of the
author's servers (the URL begins with http://nhc.yourcopy.de) and
downloaded the file nhc_2.0_pre_release_06.zip with size 2,351,003 bytes.
Just wondering if this is a safe to use file (does it match the one you
intended to point me to?)
When I clicked the link to get the release notes, I got again the "could
not locate remote server" response.
Noticed that I also need the NET framework from Microsoft to run this
software, and currently downloading version 2.0 via the MS link on the
above nhc page.
Does this sound right?
Cheers,
John S
Enkidu
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 01:44:23 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>
>> I have two URLs for you that will keep you bust for a couple days of your
>> spare time:
>>
>> <http://www.pbus-167.com/>
>>
>> http://blog.tiensivu.com/aaron/archives/1056-Enable-fine-grained-fan-control-with-NHC-on-Thinkpads.html
>>
> Hi Shaun,
>
> Have tried the first of these Urls a few times and repeatedly get the
> "could not locate remote server" using both Opera and IE.
>
>
> Tried googling
> for nhc and eventually found a link to what was claimed to be one of the
> author's servers (the URL begins with http://nhc.yourcopy.de) and
> downloaded the file nhc_2.0_pre_release_06.zip with size 2,351,003 bytes.
>
> Just wondering if this is a safe to use file (does it match the one you
> intended to point me to?)
>
> When I clicked the link to get the release notes, I got again the "could
> not locate remote server" response.
>
> Noticed that I also need the NET framework from Microsoft to run this
> software, and currently downloading version 2.0 via the MS link on the
> above nhc page.
>
> Does this sound right?
>
not via a link on another page.
~misfit~
>
>
>> I have two URLs for you that will keep you bust for a couple days of
>> your spare time:
>>
>> <http://www.pbus-167.com/>
>>
>> http://blog.tiensivu.com/aaron/archives/1056-Enable-fine-grained-fan-control-with-NHC-on-Thinkpads.html
>>
> Hi Shaun,
>
> Have tried the first of these Urls a few times and repeatedly get the
> "could not locate remote server" using both Opera and IE.
Odd, I just tested then it works for me.
> Tried
> googling for nhc and eventually found a link to what was claimed to
> be one of the author's servers (the URL begins with
> http://nhc.yourcopy.de) and downloaded the file
> nhc_2.0_pre_release_06.zip with size 2,351,003 bytes.
>
> Just wondering if this is a safe to use file (does it match the one
> you intended to point me to?)
Yes, that's the right one and the right size.
> When I clicked the link to get the release notes, I got again the
> "could not locate remote server" response.
>
> Noticed that I also need the NET framework from Microsoft to run this
> software, and currently downloading version 2.0 via the MS link on the
> above nhc page.
>
> Does this sound right?
Yes, you need dotNet 2.0 or higher.
Believe me, it's well worth having the programme. It's really configurable.
My laptops are running quieter *and* cooler now by far.
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
Enkidu
>>
>> Have tried the first of these Urls a few times and repeatedly get
>> the "could not locate remote server" using both Opera and IE.
>
> They both work for me. Fairly quick, too.
>
~misfit~
> Enkidu wrote:
>>>
>>> Have tried the first of these Urls a few times and repeatedly get
>>> the "could not locate remote server" using both Opera and IE.
>>
>> They both work for me. Fairly quick, too.
>>
> Ah, I was wrong - the first one doesn't work for me either.
Same here now. However it worked for me last night when I tried it.
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
John S
Snip ..
>> Just wondering if this is a safe to use file (does it match the one
>> you intended to point me to?)
>
> Yes, that's the right one and the right size.
>
>> When I clicked the link to get the release notes, I got again the
>> "could not locate remote server" response.
>>
>> Noticed that I also need the NET framework from Microsoft to run this
>> software, and currently downloading version 2.0 via the MS link on the
>> above nhc page.
>>
>> Does this sound right?
>
> Yes, you need dotNet 2.0 or higher.
>
> Believe me, it's well worth having the programme. It's really configurable.
> My laptops are running quieter *and* cooler now by far.
>
> Cheers,
Thanks. I'm pretty sure the dotNet 2.0 file I downloaded was from the
genuine Microsoft site - just followed a link to it from the nhc site.
The url started with http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/ and it looked like
the genuine MS site.
Will make an image of the C: partition on my laptop and try the nhc utility
out.
One other question occurs to me though - if you use the nhc utility to
change the hardware parameters, are they "sticky" within the bios settings,
or are the changed settings only read and applied each time when Windows XP
starts?
IOW, if I used the utility and messed things up, could I get out of trouble
by restoring the previously saved image of the C: partition, or would the
changes be buried in the bios (and hence still remaining in the changed
state)?
Alternatively, does the nhc utility allow you to save the existing settings
before you make any changes, and restore them later if required?
Thanks again,
Cheers,
John S
~misfit~
> Thanks. I'm pretty sure the dotNet 2.0 file I downloaded was from the
> genuine Microsoft site - just followed a link to it from the nhc site.
> The url started with http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/ and it
> looked like the genuine MS site.
>
> Will make an image of the C: partition on my laptop and try the nhc
> utility out.
>
> One other question occurs to me though - if you use the nhc utility to
> change the hardware parameters, are they "sticky" within the bios
> settings, or are the changed settings only read and applied each time
> when Windows XP starts?
The hardware parameters are changed when the application starts (with
Windows).
> IOW, if I used the utility and messed things up, could I get out of
> trouble by restoring the previously saved image of the C: partition,
Yes, or by booting into safe mode methinks. However, when you set the
voltage NHC does a 30 second quick test. If it fails that (locks up) you
re-boot and it isn't saved, it goes back to the previous voltage. It's only
saved if it passes the quick test. Then you go on to test more thouroughly
with Prime 95....
> or would the changes be buried in the bios (and hence still remaining
> in the changed state)?
No, BIOS isn't touched, it's a Windows-only app.
> Alternatively, does the nhc utility allow you to save the existing
> settings before you make any changes, and restore them later if
> required?
It has a "Return to default" on some pages, others you un-tick "use blah
blah". For voltage, if you want to go back to Intel presets you untick each
voltage. (They're unticked on install, you have to enable it.)
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
John S
snip ..
>> One other question occurs to me though - if you use the nhc utility to
>> change the hardware parameters, are they "sticky" within the bios
>> settings, or are the changed settings only read and applied each time
>> when Windows XP starts?
>
> The hardware parameters are changed when the application starts (with
> Windows).
>
>> IOW, if I used the utility and messed things up, could I get out of
>> trouble by restoring the previously saved image of the C: partition,
>
> Yes, or by booting into safe mode methinks. However, when you set the
> voltage NHC does a 30 second quick test. If it fails that (locks up) you
> re-boot and it isn't saved, it goes back to the previous voltage. It's only
> saved if it passes the quick test. Then you go on to test more thouroughly
> with Prime 95....
>
>> or would the changes be buried in the bios (and hence still remaining
>> in the changed state)?
>
> No, BIOS isn't touched, it's a Windows-only app.
>
>> Alternatively, does the nhc utility allow you to save the existing
>> settings before you make any changes, and restore them later if
>> required?
>
> It has a "Return to default" on some pages, others you un-tick "use blah
> blah". For voltage, if you want to go back to Intel presets you untick each
> voltage. (They're unticked on install, you have to enable it.)
>
> Cheers,
Thanks again - I'll have a play with it soon.
Cheers,
John S
John S
snip . info re nhc notebook hardwre control utility.
>
>> Alternatively, does the nhc utility allow you to save the existing
>> settings before you make any changes, and restore them later if
>> required?
>
> It has a "Return to default" on some pages, others you un-tick "use blah
> blah". For voltage, if you want to go back to Intel presets you untick each
> voltage. (They're unticked on install, you have to enable it.)
>
> Cheers,
Thanks Shaun,
I've now installed this utility and ran into a problem.
My R51 laptop has Windows XP pro installed and, for security, I routinely
log on with a normal user account for general use (ie no admin privileges).
I modified the account to give it admin privileges temporarily when
installing nhc, then changed the account back afterwards.
This produced an error message on startup, saying that nhc couldn't start
without admin privileges and that it is necessary to purchase the "pro"
version of nhc and run it as a service if it is to be used on non-admin
accounts.
As a workaround for the time being I created a shortcut to nhc.exe on the
desktop, then was able to close the error message on startup and start nhc
by right-clicking the shortcut and selecting "run as" - and running the
util as an administrator.
This as a bit slow and clumsy and I'm wondering if there's a better
solution?
As for settings in nhc, I've simply selected the "battery optimised" option
for AC power use, resulting in a CPU speed of 600MHz and a voltage of
0.988V.
I've also enabled "custom dynamic switching" which, as far as I can
understand, should automatically increase the CPU speed as its load
increases.
Can't see any other settings I think I should change. Do they look
sensible (for the objective of cooler running and less power consumption)?
The laptop seems to be running cooler :)
Cheers,
John S
~misfit~
Sorry, can't help you there, I run as admin all the time. Maybe someone else
can assist?
> As for settings in nhc, I've simply selected the "battery optimised"
> option for AC power use, resulting in a CPU speed of 600MHz and a
> voltage of
> 0.988V.
>
> I've also enabled "custom dynamic switching" which, as far as I can
> understand, should automatically increase the CPU speed as its load
> increases.
It's not immediately obvious but, on the custom setting, you can click the
high and low speeds and change them to whatever you like.
For instance, I leave the top setting on "Dynamic", then enable custom
dynamic and set mine to switch only between 1GHz and max, switching 'custom'
off when i close the lid at night so it'll drop back to 600MHz.
In your case perhaps set custom to 6x to 10x? That'll stop it hitting full
speed/voltage and keep it cooler.
> Can't see any other settings I think I should change. Do they look
> sensible (for the objective of cooler running and less power
> consumption)?
I'd set it as I mention above, at least then it'll ramp up to 1GHz when
needed (hardly ever for email / surfing / non-gaming). Setting the vcore is
a bot more complex, somethign we can get into if / when you're happy /
comfortable with it. :-)
> The laptop seems to be running cooler :)
Yeah, for sure it will be. The vcore really ramps up with the higher
frequency so limiting it to 6x and 0.988V will halve the thermal output. If
you get to testing lowered vcore you'll probably find that, like both
ThinkPads I've tried, you can easilly run at 1GHz at ~0.9V. Very cool but
still with a bit of power.
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
EMB
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs "John S" typed:
>> On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 19:37:32 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:
>> I modified the account to give it admin privileges temporarily when
>> installing nhc, then changed the account back afterwards.
>>
>> This produced an error message on startup, saying that nhc couldn't
>> start without admin privileges and that it is necessary to purchase
>> the "pro" version of nhc and run it as a service if it is to be used
>> on non-admin accounts.
>>
>> As a workaround for the time being I created a shortcut to nhc.exe on
>> the desktop, then was able to close the error message on startup and
>> start nhc by right-clicking the shortcut and selecting "run as" - and
>> running the util as an administrator.
>>
>> This as a bit slow and clumsy and I'm wondering if there's a better
>> solution?
To install any executable as a service, you must obtain the srvany.exe
and instsrv.exe tools from the Windows NT or 2000 Resource Kit. AIUI
these tools will work on any of Windows NT, 2000, 2003 or XP.
John S
> On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 19:37:32 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:
>
snip - lots of interesting stuff about notebook hardware control utility.
Time for me to report back on using this utility thanks Shaun:-
I ran happily for quite a while, just using the "battery optimised
settings" for the AC power control and enjoyed the obviously cooler
running.
A few days ago I spent a bit more time studying the available settings and
managed to turn on the "dynamic switching" option for the AC operation.
It's quite neat seeing the processor speed up briefly to 1600 MHz when the
system needs to do some heavier processing, then drop back to quietly idle
at 600 MHz when it's doing nothing. It's a great utility.
Thanks again Shaun for the information.
Cheers,
John S
~misfit~
Hi John,
Thanks for getting back with your thoughts/experience.
(I don't remember exactly what I've mentioned as my newsreader has purged
the older posts in this thread and I can't be bothered with GoogleGroups
so...)
For me the most powerful part of NHC is the ability to undervolt the CPU at
the various speedsteps. Undervolting gives a pretty much linear benefit in
heat output so if you can knock 10% off the voltage (stably) you can reduce
the CPU's heat loss and also battery usage by a similar amount.
It takes a while to find stable voltages but the quick test built into NHC
is a pretty good guide. I dropped my voltages until NHC wouldn't complete
the short test (machine stopped responding), did a hard re-boot and then
raised the voltage a step. After I'd done that with NHC I tested each
voltage/step (set it to max in 'custom dynamic switching) for a while using
Prime95 stress testing utility. I think I had to raise one voltage another
step.
The 'Dothan' series of Pentium M CPUs run at a lot lower voltage than the
earlier 'Banias' range and also seem to be more consistantly stable at even
lower voltages. I have a machine running each type of CPU here and went
through this process with each. Here's a list of the multiplier, original
voltage and tested stable voltage I obtained for each one:
Banias 1.6GHz
6x 0.956V > 0.716V
8x 1.036V > 0.732V
10x 1.164V > 0.812V
12x 1.276V > 0.908V
14x 1.420V > 1.020V
16x 1.484V > 1.132V
Dothan 1.7GHz
6x 0.988V > 0.748V
8x 1.052V > 0.828V
10x 1.116V > 0.908V
12x 1.180V > 0.988V
14x 1.244V > 1.084V
17x 1.340V > 1.244V
The Banias proved to be a bit unstable in use at those settings even though,
individually they were rock-solid. It would sometimes lock up requiring a
re-start. I bumped them all up a bit and it was fine. I put it down to the
circuitry on the motherboard not being able to switch the voltage required
as quickly as it switches the speed when there's little margin for error,
resulting in less than the pre-set volyage being delivered to the CPU for a
millisecond, causing lock-ups.
However, with the Dothan, there has never been a problem at the tested
lowest stable voltages. The Banias is in a ThinkPad R40 and the Dothan is in
a ThinkPad R51. I use the R51 as my main machine and, since I found out the
lowest stable voltages (they actually vary for each example of a CPU) heat
output has reduced considerably.
I've gone one step further with the R51 and am using a custom dynamic
switching profile. I've set it to *only* switch between 8x and 14x for
day-to-day use. I found 6x to be a little slow so the CPU was constantly
switching all over the place, through all of the multipliers seemingly at
random. However, with 800MHz set as the lowest multiplier (and using a lot
less voltage than the original 600MHz setting was) it doesn't switch up
nearly as much.
I've also set 1.4GHz as the top speed as the core voltage at that setting is
very low (1.084V) compared to the reduction I was able to achieve at 1.7GHz
meaning that the machine runs very cool. On the odd occaision that I need
the full 1.7GHz speed it's simply a matter of a couple clicks to allow it.
Notebook Hardware Control allows for a multitude of settings. For instance
I've changed the parameters for when the fan cuts in and at what speed it
runs at. I've also slightly underclocked my GPU (ATI Mobility Radeon 900)
as, especially during gaming, it runs far hotter than the CPU (fortunately
the fan activation circuitry in these ThinkPads takes it's cue from
whichever of the processing units is the hotter). Alas, there is no option
to undervolt the GPU as well, which normally brings greater benefits than
underclocking alone. Still, you can't have it all I guess and I'm happy to
have this much control over the hardware in a laptop, a machine that's
normally considered 'untweakable'.
Oh well, I've spent a bit of time writing this up, better get busy in the
garden for a while.....
Cheers, and good luck with your tweaking. :-)
--
Shaun.
"Build a man a fire, and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and
he`ll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett, Jingo.
P.S. There's another app that some folks use that apparently does similar
things, RMClock. I've never used it on a laptop as I was pointed to NHC in
the ThinkPad forums. Perhaps I'll trial it sometime....
John S
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs John S wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:38:35 +1300, John S wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 19:37:32 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:
>>>
>>
>> snip - lots of interesting stuff about notebook hardware control
>> utility.
>>
>> Time for me to report back on using this utility thanks Shaun:-
>>
>> I ran happily for quite a while, just using the "battery optimised
>> settings" for the AC power control and enjoyed the obviously cooler
>> running.
>>
>> A few days ago I spent a bit more time studying the available
>> settings and managed to turn on the "dynamic switching" option for
>> the AC operation.
>>
>> It's quite neat seeing the processor speed up briefly to 1600 MHz
>> when the system needs to do some heavier processing, then drop back
>> to quietly idle at 600 MHz when it's doing nothing. It's a great
>> utility.
>>
>> Thanks again Shaun for the information.
>
> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for getting back with your thoughts/experience.
>
> (I don't remember exactly what I've mentioned as my newsreader has purged
> the older posts in this thread and I can't be bothered with GoogleGroups
> so...)
Snip - lots of detailed technical info on how to get even more benefit out
of using this software.
>
> Cheers, and good luck with your tweaking. :-)
Heck Shaun - I'm feeling embarassed at all the effort you've made to teach
me how to use this great utility.
I'll try out your suggestions, but not until I've time to devote some hours
to carefully play around.
Cheers,
John S
~misfit~
Hehee! I'm a hardware man at heart and thought I'd have to give up my hobby
when I went to laptops. Luckilly there is still tweaking to be done and
actual hands-on hardware swapping, I've swapped LCD panels, CPUs, keyboards
and of course RAM, HDDs and optical drives. I swapped out the Banias CPU
that was in this machine for the superior Dothan.
> I'll try out your suggestions, but not until I've time to devote some
> hours to carefully play around.
Cool. You can always do it in stages, find the optimal voltage for one
'step' at a time, leaving the others at standard until you have time to do
them. Just don't have anything open and unsaved while testing each voltage
as you will have to do a few hard re-sets, it's the nature of the beast. You
drop the voltage until the laptop locks up with the short test built into
NHC. (Then you do a more extensive test using Prime95 with the machine set
with the step you just adjusted as the highest. If it'll run Prime for 30
minutes - 3 hours there's a 98% chance its stable. Overnight it's 99.9%. It
takes a while for each step. Worth it in the long-run though IMO.
I can't remember, we you know if you have a Banias or a Dothan? (Download
and run CPU-Z, it'll tell you.)
Cheers,