Broadway Esplanade
Anna.Ma...@gmail.com
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=%22broadway+esplanade%22&btnG=Search+News
http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=5&aid=83646
July 11, 2008
In the city's latest effort to "go green," an eight-street stretch of
Broadway is getting a lot skinnier for drivers, and a lot wider for
pedestrians and bike riders with a new public esplanade.
Dubbed "Broadway Boulevard," the project will see Broadway reduced
from four traffic lanes to two from 42nd Street down to Herald
Square.
The move is part of the city's continued efforts to re-imagine public
spaces and encourage alternatives to driving.
"We have the best mass transit system in the world," said Barbara
Randall of the Fashion Business Improvement District, which is helping
to fund the project. "There's no place you can't get to from here. My
feeling is make it as hard as you can for the cars."
While some people said they think it's a great idea, critics argued
the move would slow down traffic in the city's most-gridlocked area.
Vince
AGAIN?
That didn't work the last three times!
Bolwerk
What didn't? Narrowing streets will probably discourage traffic.
Even if it doesn't, at least there will be fewer cars clogging Broadway,
which should still mean less smog.
Vince
What I'm talking about are all the bike only lanes over the years
chris.li...@gmail.com
> Vince wrote:
>
> > Anna.Marek6...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> This could make for lots more sidewalk eating at tables, nice.
>
>
> >>http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=5&aid=83646
>
> >> July 11, 2008
>
> >> In the city's latest effort to "go green," an eight-street stretch of
> >> Broadway is getting a lot skinnier for drivers, and a lot wider for
> >> pedestrians and bike riders with a new public esplanade.
>
> >> Dubbed "Broadway Boulevard," the project will see Broadway reduced
> >> from four traffic lanes to two from 42nd Street down to Herald
> >> Square.
>
> >> The move is part of the city's continued efforts to re-imagine public
> >> spaces and encourage alternatives to driving.
>
> >> "We have the best mass transit system in the world," said Barbara
> >> Randall of the Fashion Business Improvement District, which is helping
> >> to fund the project. "There's no place you can't get to from here. My
> >> feeling is make it as hard as you can for the cars."
>
> >> While some people said they think it's a great idea, critics argued
> >> the move would slow down traffic in the city's most-gridlocked area.
>
> > AGAIN?
>
> > That didn't work the last three times!
>
> What didn't? Narrowing streets will probably discourage traffic.
>
> Even if it doesn't, at least there will be fewer cars clogging Broadway,
> which should still mean less smog.
750 gridlocked cars will leave you the same smog as 1000 cars moving
slowly past.
Chris
Peter T. Daniels
> Vince wrote:
>
> >> This could make for lots more sidewalk eating at tables, nice.
>
> >>http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=5&aid=83646
>
> >> July 11, 2008
>
> >> In the city's latest effort to "go green," an eight-street stretch of
> >> Broadway is getting a lot skinnier for drivers, and a lot wider for
> >> pedestrians and bike riders with a new public esplanade.
>
> >> Dubbed "Broadway Boulevard," the project will see Broadway reduced
> >> from four traffic lanes to two from 42nd Street down to Herald
> >> Square.
>
> >> The move is part of the city's continued efforts to re-imagine public
> >> spaces and encourage alternatives to driving.
>
> >> "We have the best mass transit system in the world," said Barbara
> >> Randall of the Fashion Business Improvement District, which is helping
> >> to fund the project. "There's no place you can't get to from here. My
> >> feeling is make it as hard as you can for the cars."
>
> >> While some people said they think it's a great idea, critics argued
> >> the move would slow down traffic in the city's most-gridlocked area.
>
> > AGAIN?
>
> > That didn't work the last three times!
>
> What didn't? Narrowing streets will probably discourage traffic.
>
> Even if it doesn't, at least there will be fewer cars clogging Broadway,
> which should still mean less smog.
Jane Byrne (1979-83) made State Street in Chicago's Loop a bus-only
and pedestrian mall. It was changed back to a street a few years
later; the businesses it was supposed to help suffered greatly.
The difference here is that there's not mch retail along Broadway Boh\
J.R.Guthrie
news:1b70ccea-94e8-4ed9...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> This could make for lots more sidewalk eating at tables, nice.
There's nothing like lunch with bus and truck exhaust hitting you from the
next lane.
The LL11 Sheds lining Broadway don't help the atmosphere, either.
I've been watching preparation for this out my office window for a couple of
days -- and it may be interesting. But I think that to make it work, they'd
have to close the street to all traffic.
As for me, I'll stick with lunch in Bryant Park.
Cheers,
Jim Guthrie
Peter T. Daniels
> <Anna.Marek6...@gmail.com> wrote in message
The Herald Square triangle seems pretty popular, though.
J.R.Guthrie
>> That didn't work the last three times!
>
> What didn't? Narrowing streets will probably discourage traffic.
>
> Even if it doesn't, at least there will be fewer cars clogging Broadway,
> which should still mean less smog.
I don't think there will be fewer cars at all. There are dedicated turn
lanes as well -- and by the looks of things, I suspect traffic will move far
more smoothly than under the free-f-r-all system that has existed since
Broadway became a one-way street.
Cheers,
Jim Guthrie
Bolwerk
The Fulton Mall in Brooklyn is pedestrian- and bus-only. It seems quite
successful, and it's located in a rather less-than-chic area.
> The difference here is that there's not mch retail along Broadway Boh\
There's quite a lot of retail along Broadway from Chambers to Midtown.
I don't know about beyond that.
Bolwerk
>
>>> That didn't work the last three times!
>>
>>
>> What didn't? Narrowing streets will probably discourage traffic.
>>
>> Even if it doesn't, at least there will be fewer cars clogging
>> Broadway, which should still mean less smog.
>
> What I'm talking about are all the bike only lanes over the years
>
They seem to get used. I guess they could be used more. Lessening
traffic and adding more lanes could help that by adding the number of
safe, bikable (word exists?) destinations.
AllstonPar...@hotmail.com
> Dubbed "Broadway Boulevard," the project will see Broadway reduced
> from four traffic lanes to two from 42nd Street down to Herald
> Square.
Are they actually going to spend the money to rebuild the curbs and
sidewalks? Or are they going to do it with stripes and flimsy plastic
posts, like in Times Square, which leaves the extra space unusable for
cars and unpleasant for pedestrians?
-Apr
Peter T. Daniels
From Times Square to Herald Square is mostly office buildings that
replaced the loft buildings that housed garment industries (and the
Metropolitan Opera at 39th St.). There are bank branches (of course!)
and a few delis and such.
Anna.Ma...@gmail.com
The article answers that. But whiny old farts complain when I post
more of a story. To: Bolwerk: you're right, there's plenty of retail
along Bwy, including the esplanade length.
Peter T. Daniels
Why don't you walk the 8 blocks and report on exactly what occupies
the street-level spaces in each building?
And it's not "Esplanade," it's "Boulevard."
chris.li...@gmail.com
Seems like it could reasonably be called an esplanade.
Chris
J.R.Guthrie
> Why don't you walk the 8 blocks and report on exactly what occupies
> the street-level spaces in each building?
I'm there every day -- there are lots of Delis that will do much better
business if the idea of sitting at tables in the street for lunch takes off.
The Starbucks will [both] do okay.
And who would drive to Times Square to visit an Office Max or a Duane Reade
or all those bank branches?
If anyone tells you that restricting traffic on this stretch will hurt
business, you might suggest they hop on their saucer and go back to their
own planet.
Cheers,
Jim Guthrie
Bolwerk
It seems to me the scheme may even attract businesses that would feed
off the idea, like restaurants that want outside dining and art/craft types.
Of course, the city could do well to get rid of its silly prohibition on
open containers in public.
chris.li...@gmail.com
Are you aware that it's pretty difficult to get a permit to set up
tables outside a restaurant? They can't just set them up on the
sidewalk if they feel like it. In a high-traffic area, I bet it's
really tough to get a permit.
Chris
Bolwerk
Yes, I'm aware. It seems like it would make sense to make it easier, in
this case. Or find another way, like some kind of cooperative between
restaurants to have tables available for outside dining.
Dumb rules can be changed.
chris.li...@gmail.com
But here's a question- if we want to make it easier on pedestrians, is
there any difference between having 12 feet of cars where you can't
walk and 12 feet of restaurant tables where you can't walk?
> Dumb rules can be changed.
In this city? Sure, I think they just changed one last week that
Fiorello LaGuardia put into place.
Chris
Bolwerk
I'd say so. Tables don't generally run you over if you walk in front of
them. :|
>> Dumb rules can be changed.
>
> In this city? Sure, I think they just changed one last week that
> Fiorello LaGuardia put into place.
Better late than never.
Peter T. Daniels
chris.li...@gmail.com
Well, in fact, there's no reason not to use a synonym, is there. It's
a perfectly good word, and she never said or even implied it was the
official name of the thing.
Chris
chris.li...@gmail.com
But in fact I see a lot more people walking in the street than I do
walking through those outdoor tables. They generally don't get
squished either.
Chris
Peter T. Daniels
Anna.Ma...@gmail.com
The 'sbject?'
I quoted two words from the article as the 'sbject.'
The article goes on to call the project, "Broadway Boulevard."
Let's hear Daniels whine about that too.
Peter T. Daniels
The name of the project is Broadway Boulevard.
New York already has an Esplanade; it's the terrace in Brooklyn
Heights over the BQE overlooking Lower Manhattan.
I am using an inexpensive keyboard plugged into a laptop, and its u
and y keys require extra pressure, so sometimes those letters are
skipped in typing.
chris.li...@gmail.com
So what? So anna.marek6 called an esplanade- big deal, the name fits.
She also went on to call it Broadway Boulevard.
Chris
chris.li...@gmail.com
That's the only one called The Esplanade, but New York has several
esplanades, the most notable being the pedestrian thoroughfare along
the lower Hudson River. Most of Riverside Park also qualifies as does
the long pedestrian walkway along Shore Parkway, from before the
Narrows all along Gravesend Bay.
Chris
>
> I am using an inexpensive keyboard plugged into a laptop, and its u
> and y keys require extra pressure, so sometimes those letters are
> skipped in typing.
Noted.
Anna.Ma...@gmail.com
>
> I am using an inexpensive keyboard plugged into a laptop, and its u
> and y keys require extra pressure, so sometimes those letters are
> skipped in typing.
Then use your boyfriends' Linux box more often.
Or has Peter been a bad 'bottom?'
chris.li...@gmail.com
Uncalled for.
Chris
Peter T. Daniels
No, she called it Broadway Esplanade.
> big deal, the name fits.
> She also went on to call it Broadway Boulevard.
Then she could have gotten it right the first time.
Anna.Ma...@gmail.com
Your claim that I got my own subject line incorrect is uncalled for.
And I quoted "Broadway Boulevard" in the body of that first post, and
so I did "get it right" the first time.
chris.li...@gmail.com
Right, and in a title you use upper case letters.
>
> > big deal, the name fits.
> > She also went on to call it Broadway Boulevard.
>
> Then she could have gotten it right the first time.
You need to pick your fights a little more carefully.
Chris
Peter T. Daniels
And uppercase letters wouldn't have looked like a (mistaken) proper
name.
Why are you defending this?
chris.li...@gmail.com
In a title? When the correct name was used in the body? Not
reasonable.
>
> Why are you defending this?
Because it was a picayune thing for you to mention. There's plenty of
other, more valid things to complain about.
Chris
Peter T. Daniels
It was a mistake. Period.
> > Why are you defending this?
>
> Because it was a picayune thing for you to mention. There's plenty of
> other, more valid things to complain about.
When I did that, I got emails advising me to ignore the troll.
chris.li...@gmail.com
Rubbish. Get over it.
>
> > > Why are you defending this?
>
> > Because it was a picayune thing for you to mention. There's plenty of
> > other, more valid things to complain about.
>
> When I did that, I got emails advising me to ignore the troll.
So what?
Chris
J.R.Guthrie
> It seems to me the scheme may even attract businesses that would feed off
> the idea, like restaurants that want outside dining and art/craft types.
>
> Of course, the city could do well to get rid of its silly prohibition on
> open containers in public.
With all the LL11 sheds, this si not exatly the most user-freindly, vusually
friendly time for connecting to the businesses along the street. The bike
lanes separate the "sitting area" from the sidewalk, so people trying to use
this will have to risk bodily injury from the terrorsts on two wheelers --
defined as most NYC bicyclists.
And the ONLY rel Esplanade is the the Bronx -- created once upon a time by
the New York, EWestchester and Boston Railway.
Cheers,
Jim
AllstonPar...@hotmail.com
> AllstonParkingRefu...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Are they actually going to spend the money to rebuild the curbs and
> > sidewalks? Or are they going to do it with stripes and flimsy plastic
> > posts, like in Times Square, which leaves the extra space unusable for
> > cars and unpleasant for pedestrians?
>
> The article answers that. But whiny old farts complain when I post
> more of a story.
The NY1 article did not answer that. It said there would be bicycle
lanes and planters, but it didn't say if they were actually redoing
the curbs and sidewalks.
The Times article at http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/nyregion/11broadway.html
was pretty clear that it's just a paint job. Maybe they can pull it
off on the cheap, but I have a feeling it will be just as unpleasant
as the new paint stripe curb extensions in Times Square that don't do
much for pedestrians.
The Transportation Commissioner recommends that drivers use one of the
avenues instead of Broadway. But didn't the recent reconfiguration at
Times Square eliminate the movement to stay on 7th Avenue, and divert
traffic to Broadway?
-Apr
Anna.Ma...@gmail.com
> Anna.Marek6...@gmail.com wrote:
> > AllstonParkingRefu...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > Are they actually going to spend the money to rebuild the curbs and
> > > sidewalks? Or are they going to do it with stripes and flimsy plastic
>
> > The article answers that.
>
> The NY1 article did not answer that. It said there would be bicycle
> lanes and planters, but it didn't say if they were actually redoing
> the curbs and sidewalks.
You've been to Manhattan in the last few years, right? ;-)
Bolwerk says it won't work anyway, so this design is at least
reversible.
The article said, "Planters with flowers will separate the esplanade
from the street."
http://www.trust-us.ch/cryptome/01-Cryptome-061213/bs-01/trump-tower-01.jpg
"Planters with flowers" means large and extremely heavy concrete ...
ash trays.
Oak tree, you're in my way.
Anna.Ma...@gmail.com
Vince
<Anna.Ma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4f47e8fc-889f-492c...@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
Sorry my system was down
Big deal the cops now have something there now that blocks most of the
space.