- Headlight Flashing To Warn Of Radar Trap -
- OFR -
lights as speed-trap warning
Sunday, August 1, 1999
By NANCY PARELLO
The Associated Press
TRENTON -- Motorists are allowed to flash their
headlights to warn oncoming drivers about a speed
trap, an appeals court ruled last week.
A two-judge panel ruled that Susan R. Luptak of
Jackson violated no state laws when she flashed her
headlights to warn an oncoming motorist about a
speed trap.
The driver Luptak was trying to help turned out to
be a police officer in an unmarked car. He pulled
her over and cited her for misuse of headlights.
"I think it's the right decision," said Mario Apuzzo,
Luptak's attorney. "I think a motorist has every right
to warn somebody of a speed trap. It's part of their
First Amendment right of expression."
Luptak was driving on Perrineville Road in Monroe
in October 1997 when she flashed her high beams
twice at an oncoming car, trying to warn the driver
to slow down.
The officer was on his way to relieve the cop at the
speed trap.
During the stop, he discovered that Luptak was
driving with a suspended license and cited her for
that, too.
Luptak originally was found guilty in Monroe
Municipal Court. She appealed in state Superior
Court in New Brunswick. That court threw out the
headlight conviction but allowed the charge of
driving without a license to stand.
The appellate court said on Thursday, however, that
Luptak did not violate the state law for misuse of
headlights, which deals only with factors such as
how far high beams must project.
"The statute was never intended to prohibit a
motorist from warning oncoming motorists that a
speed trap lies ahead," the ruling said.
Because the police officer had no grounds to pull
her over to begin with, the court also dismissed the
other charge of driving while on the suspended list.
Copyright © 1999 Bergen Record Corp.
- Outlaw Frog Raper -
news:alt.thebird.copwatch
news:alt.law-enforcement
news:nyc.general
(518)356-4238
Tom Sparks
long before emergency flashers became common equipment, to warn others
to SLOW DOWN. It was used, traditionally, for any highway danger
ahead, and is far more likely to indicate an accident in the road than
it is to finger a speed trap.
More people SHOULD use lights to indicate speed traps!
On Sun, 01 Aug 1999 11:21:51 -0500, - OFR -
<outlaw_f...@dejanews.com> bravely declared in
alt.thebird.copwatch:
--
Tom Sparks news:alt.thebird.copwatch
CopWatch: http://thebird.org/copwatch/
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Please don't email newsgroup replies.
Bill C.
news:37a47920...@news.stc.net...
| Headlight flashing is a common signal to oncoming motorists, initiated
| long before emergency flashers became common equipment, to warn others
| to SLOW DOWN. It was used, traditionally, for any highway danger
| ahead, and is far more likely to indicate an accident in the road than
| it is to finger a speed trap.
It is something they did in other countries to. They'd flash their
highbeams to indicate police or road hazard ahead.
|
| More people SHOULD use lights to indicate speed traps!
True. However, here in Florida some idiot motorist got pissed off, shot and
killed another motorist who flashed his highbeams. I guess the guy didn't
care about the speedtrap, he just was pissed off because the other flashed
his highbeams. Moral of the story: Flash at your own risk and remember, not
everyone is sane out there.
Drive safe.
Sergeant Rock
wrote:
>Headlight flashing is a common signal to oncoming motorists, initiated
>long before emergency flashers became common equipment, to warn others
>to SLOW DOWN. It was used, traditionally, for any highway danger
>ahead, and is far more likely to indicate an accident in the road than
>it is to finger a speed trap.
>
>More people SHOULD use lights to indicate speed traps!
Less people should have web sights with links to other sights
advocating the death of cops like your huh Tom? You ever going to
answer why there was such a link on you web sight or are you going to
continue to avoid the question?????? Run like the pussy you are Tom!
Sgt. Rock
E. Faubion
>Less people should have web sights with links to other sights
>advocating the death of cops like your huh Tom?
He's still running away from answering where he used to be a cop. Add Liar to
his resume.
____________________
remove USA for email
2 Die Free
If there's a speed trap. As the unsuspecting driver
approaches you, extend your left arm out the window and with
your index finger extended, do the No-No right left swing at
the wrist.
If there's a roadblock. As the unsuspecting driver
approaches you, extend your left arm out the window and with
fingers together and you palm held flat, indicate a HALT.
Close to a Hail Hitler sign. Try not to put much wrist
action in the sign so it won't be misinterpreted as a hello,
or a wave down.
An extended palm, like a beggar, could indicate you want
info on the road ahead.
With your index finger extended and a motion of your whole
forearm in a circle, like drawing a doughnut in the air,
your telling the other driver, roll'em. The road ahead is
clear as far as you know.
Used together with the flashing headlights for attention,
much good information can be conveyed.
2 Die Free
In Liberty
JSACKS
I did assert that this was a 1st amendment issue, and I guess now I was
proven correct.
So in a very adult and non gloating way...
Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah......
JSACKS<<
Lead, Follow or flash your lights!
- OFR - <outlaw_f...@dejanews.com> wrote in message
news:37A474...@dejanews.com...
B. Richardson
but the effect of the flash is that it encourages people to slow down and
obey the law. How can the police possibly make an argument against one
citizen encourging others to obey the law?
E. Faubion
>How can the police possibly make an argument against one
>citizen encourging others to obey the law?
How can you possibly know what a flashing headlight means?
Radar ahead?
Wreck ahead?
Dim your lights?
Screw you?
My dimmer switch is bad?
...........???............
Tom Sparks
bravely declared in alt.thebird.copwatch:
>Tom Sparks <copw...@thebird.org> wrote in message
>news:37a47920...@news.stc.net...
>| Headlight flashing is a common signal to oncoming motorists, initiated
>| long before emergency flashers became common equipment, to warn others
>| to SLOW DOWN. It was used, traditionally, for any highway danger
>| ahead, and is far more likely to indicate an accident in the road than
>| it is to finger a speed trap.
>
>It is something they did in other countries to. They'd flash their
>highbeams to indicate police or road hazard ahead.
>
>|
>| More people SHOULD use lights to indicate speed traps!
>
>True. However, here in Florida some idiot motorist got pissed off, shot and
>killed another motorist who flashed his highbeams. I guess the guy didn't
>care about the speedtrap, he just was pissed off because the other flashed
>his highbeams. Moral of the story: Flash at your own risk and remember, not
>everyone is sane out there.
>
>Drive safe.
Anyone that screwy just needs an excuse; it could as well be the type
of one's car or the colour of one's skin.
Our refusal to live in fear is the reason that we're here. FLASH'EM!
B. Richardson
it as a signal that there is a speed trap ahead, the end result is that
most people will slow down to the posted limit. As for those few who do
not recognize the meaning, they will most likely ignore it. So again, I
ask what possible reason can there be for the police to object to one
cititzen encouraging others to obey the law? (Hint: the answer to this
question has to do with $$$.)
E. Faubion
>Well, seeing as how most everyone I've ever met universally recognizes
>it as a signal that there is a speed trap ahead,
Almost isn't always. It could still be for any of the other mentioned reasons.
>the end result is that
>most people will slow down to the posted limit.
This assumes the only people who pay attention to headlight flashers are
speeders. :-]
>As for those few who do
>not recognize the meaning, they will most likely ignore it. So again, I
>ask what possible reason can there be for the police to object to one
>cititzen encouraging others to obey the law? (Hint: the answer to this
>question has to do with $$$.)
I have no objection to it all. The only point I'm making (and which your
'almost' verifies) is that one cannot know with certainty *why* the other driver
is flashing his headlights.
tooloo
"B. Richardson" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Well, seeing as how most everyone I've ever met universally recognizes
> most people will slow down to the posted limit. As for those few who do
> not recognize the meaning,
They will deserve whatever they get because.
> they will most likely ignore it. So again, I
> ask what possible reason can there be for the police to object to one
> cititzen encouraging others to obey the law? (Hint: the answer to this
> question has to do with $$$.)
Dosen't it decrease the reaction time of the oncoming driver,no matter what
may lay ahead?
Because they expect something.
Any reduction in the three second reaction time should be welcome.
I flash,and I flash fardown the road...
When I get flashed by other people,it refreshes my beleif in my fellow human
beans.
It was kindafunny when they found out certian radar guns caused testicular
cancer years back.(he he)
I say cops should get speeders the old fashioned way.
Working their way thru traffic.
Stealhily sneaking up behind you,with those big lightbars on the roof.
If you can get them that way,then it's pretty fair.
Then the driver really wasn't paying attention.
>
> E. Faubion wrote:
>
> > "B. Richardson" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> > >How can the police possibly make an argument against one
> > >citizen encourging others to obey the law?
> >
> > How can you possibly know what a flashing headlight means?
> > Radar ahead?
> > Wreck ahead?
> > Dim your lights?
> > Screw you?
> > My dimmer switch is bad?
> > ...........???............
> >
> > ____________________
> > remove USA for email
>
>
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tooloo
efau...@oklahoma.USAnet wrote:
> "B. Richardson" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >How can the police possibly make an argument against one
> >citizen encourging others to obey the law?
>
> How can you possibly know what a flashing headlight means?
> Radar ahead?
> Wreck ahead?
> Dim your lights?
> Screw you?
> My dimmer switch is bad?
> ...........???............
(and gets a ticket)
E. Faubion
>Alas,he who hesitates is lost...
>(and gets a ticket)
Where do you live? I'd sure like to avoid wherever it is since where I come
from hesitating is still legal. :-]
Bart Lidofsky
: not recognize the meaning, they will most likely ignore it. So again, I
: ask what possible reason can there be for the police to object to one
: question has to do with $$$.)
Fairly often, when someone is killed in a traffic accident, the
question of why the driver is not charged criminally is brought up, often
with charges of favoritism (a notable case was the one where a driver in
a Hasidic motorcade ran into and killed a young black child, sparking off
the Crown Heights Pogrom). In New York City (and State?), in order to be
charged criminally, one has to be guilty of breaking at least 3 traffic
laws (the driver in the Crown Heights case was only guilty of breaking 2).
Now, if all traffic laws were based on safety, then breaking 1 traffic law
would probably be considered sufficient to warrant criminal action in the
case of an accident. But there are also laws to keep traffic moving, and
laws to raise revenue. And formerly differentiating between the 3 would
require an admission that some traffic laws are in place for the sole
purpose of raising revenue (like speed/red light traps where the lights
are timed so as to encourgage speeding or running through red lights in
front of the hidden cop).
So, the courts figure that if you break 3 traffic regulations,
then you have GOT to have broken at least on REAL regulation. But it does
grate on one's sensibilities when someone has broken two real safety
rules, and gets off with an increase in insurance rates.
Bart Lidofsky
E. Faubion
>In New York City (and State?), in order to be charged criminally, one has
>to be guilty of breaking at least 3 traffic laws
Surely this is a joke. I've never heard of this before.
>Now, if all traffic laws were based on safety, then breaking 1 traffic law
>would probably be considered sufficient to warrant criminal action in the
>case of an accident.
It is where I live and everywhere else, or so I thought. I genuinely hope you
are mistaken.
Omnivore.
Sergeant Rock wrote in message <37a474a7...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
>>long before emergency flashers became common equipment, to warn others
>>to SLOW DOWN. It was used, traditionally, for any highway danger
>>ahead, and is far more likely to indicate an accident in the road than
>>it is to finger a speed trap.
>>
>
>answer why there was such a link on you web sight or are you going to
>continue to avoid the question?????? Run like the pussy you are Tom!
>
>Sgt. Rock
Sights? How the hell could you ever write a coherent report?
Omnivore.
Hey he don't know a sight from a site. And he will not produce something
that ought to be easy.
Different when your buddy is a demonstrable liar though, isn't it?
E. Faubion wrote in message <37a4920f....@news.okc.oklahoma.net>...
>Sgt...@nopukes.com (Sergeant Rock) wrote:
>
>>Less people should have web sights with links to other sights
>>advocating the death of cops like your huh Tom?
>
>He's still running away from answering where he used to be a cop. Add Liar
to
>his resume.
>
>
tooloo
efau...@oklahoma.USAnet wrote:
> tooloo <eyes...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Alas,he who hesitates is lost...
> >(and gets a ticket)
>
> Where do you live? I'd sure like to avoid wherever it is since where
You seem pretty sensitive there ....
This is a pretty fluffy conversation.
>I come
> from hesitating is still legal. :-]
Last I heard it was too.
Therefore I hereby grant you permission to do so.
Enjoy the freedom !
( I live U S A too !!!)
there goes the neighborhood. : )
Peace--
>
> ____________________
> remove USA for email
>
--
E. Faubion
>> >Alas,he who hesitates is lost...
>> >(and gets a ticket)
>> Where do you live? I'd sure like to avoid wherever it is
> You seem pretty sensitive there ....
Just pointing out the silliness of the statement.
> This is a pretty fluffy conversation.
Frizzy, fluffy, pointless... yeah, you're right.
- OFR -
>
> "JSACKS" <donte...@iname.com> wrote:
>
> >> Then why don't they flash their lights when the police aren't around?
>
> >Well, we don't want to help that much :{ )
>
> In other words, it's not about safety at all. Of course we already knew that
> didn't we? :-]
Right, it's about revenue.
> ____________________
> remove USA for email
--
tooloo
efau...@oklahoma.USAnet wrote:
> tooloo <eyes...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >Alas,he who hesitates is lost...
> >> >(and gets a ticket)
>
> >> Where do you live?
Seriously ?
Kookamunga.
> I'd sure like to avoid wherever it is
>
We don't get many strangers around here..
> > You seem pretty sensitive there ....
>
> Just pointing out the silliness of the statement.
>
As was I !
( I was hoping you weren't being serious.)
> > This is a pretty fluffy conversation.
>
> Frizzy, fluffy, pointless... yeah, you're right.
>
Amen.
PeacE--
> ____________________
> remove USA for email
>
--
Lenny Stover
your knowledge of signals.
2 Die Free wrote in message <933532110.16446@flux>...
Lenny Stover
has been awful hot around here, I dont mind them slowing down before they
get to me. ;)
E. Faubion wrote in message <37a50b5b....@news.okc.oklahoma.net>...
>"B. Richardson" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>How can the police possibly make an argument against one
>>citizen encourging others to obey the law?
>
>How can you possibly know what a flashing headlight means?
>Radar ahead?
>Wreck ahead?
>Dim your lights?
>Screw you?
>My dimmer switch is bad?
>...........???............
>
Lenny Stover
DUI is a Class A misdemeanor for 1st offense, Class 4 felony for 2nd
offense, Drag Racing is a Class B misdemeanor,....I could go on for a while.
Is it about the same in OKC?
E. Faubion wrote in message <37a603ea....@news.okc.oklahoma.net>...
E. Faubion
>Earl, other than the last two, all three would justify the flash. Hey, it
>has been awful hot around here, I dont mind them slowing down before they
>get to me. ;)
Nor do I. I'm not opposed to the flashing of headlights at all. What I was
trying to point out is that flashing a headlight does not have a singular
meaning.
E. Faubion
>Well, lets see....around here Reckless Driving is a Class A misdemeanor.
>DUI is a Class A misdemeanor for 1st offense, Class 4 felony for 2nd
>offense, Drag Racing is a Class B misdemeanor,....I could go on for a while.
>Is it about the same in OKC?
Yes, it's similar although we don't classify them as A, B, 4, etc. Reckless
used to involve an immediate arrest but now we can cite and release if there's
no indication the defendant will fail to show up for the mandatory court
appearance. Drag racing is a like a regular ticket if it falls short of the
elements of Reckless Driving.
Steve Furbish
Likewise, every marked car that a motorist observes in a
median might not be looking for speeders (or running traffic
at all for that matter). A savvy felon might think being
flashed provides a decent opportunity to select an alternate
escape route?
Steve
E. Faubion
>A savvy felon might think being
>flashed provides a decent opportunity to select an alternate
>escape route?
Timothy McVeigh sure could have used one that day in April a few years ago.
Lenny Stover
going to get a flash? I see a few every now and then, but nothing like I
used to see in the old days.
Steve Furbish wrote in message <37AA06D3...@cybertours.com>...
>
>
>Likewise, every marked car that a motorist observes in a
>median might not be looking for speeders (or running traffic
>at all for that matter). A savvy felon might think being
>flashed provides a decent opportunity to select an alternate
>escape route?
>
>Steve
Steve Furbish
Lenny Stover wrote:
>
> You have a point Steve, but how often do you think that the savvy felon is
> going to get a flash? I see a few every now and then, but nothing like I
> used to see in the old days.
I suppose that an available alternate route and a chance to
use it based solely on a headlamp flash might be a stretch,
but depending on what the guy did (or will do) that every so
often occurrence takes on a slightly different meaning than
the well meaning traffic enforcement warning it was intended
as...
Steve
Lenny Stover
Steve Furbish wrote in message <37ACE7F7...@cybertours.com>...