NVC Certificate

[Gedding]

Ok, I want to make a vague outline that can be used in this forum to
"certify" NVC trainers.

A list of skills that we think would be important for a trainer.
And those seeking "certification" can choose which they like and can
use that list to indicate what they think they can/cannot do.

I hereby give authority back to the individual to determine what they
can and cannot do, and use that knowedge to certify themselves as an
NVC trainer, provided they acknowledge that

- NVC is a constantly growing process. Therefore there is no fixed
state that can be tested for, and no absolute authority.

- There is no substance in labels, they do not imply wisdom and serve
only to disconnect one from what is present and connect oneself to
one's self images.
Nor do they imply roles or obligations which have the same effect.

- NVC learning is a dynamic process, information, learning and growth
can come from those attending training as well as from those
facilitating training.

- There is no authority in NVC, individuals can express what they
think and feel without subserviance from authority. But acknowledge
feedback from others, within the NVC community and without.

- The NVC process is to serve life. To help meet present needs. No
one's needs are more or less important than anyone else's.

[John Mudie]

Well I have been thinking of creating a new organization. The OFNR
organization of people who practice OFNR. This removes the legal and
authoritative link to NVC. But of course acknowledges and credits NVC.

So how about calling it an OFNR certificate?

J

[Gedding]

OFNR certificate would be great. I would like to keep the non-violent
communication words in the title somewhere because it describes the
process so well, without sounding lame, like "compassionate
connection" or similar words, to cool people like me.

"I have OFNR certifation in non-violent communication". How does that
sound?

I guess the theory with this certification process is there needs to
be acknowledgment that
- learning comes from all areas, images/labels/roles/obligations do
not indicate wisdom, and lead instead to disconnection.
- NVC is a growing process.

If someone disagrees with this then they would believe in the
authoritarion domination model, and therefore acknowledge the
authority of offical NVC certification, and should get a certificate
from them.

Agree?

[John Mudie]

What really scares me is that if the OFNR Certificate idea took hold, it too
would evolve and spread and eventually be seen as coming from an
authoritarian domination model, sigh

John

-----Original Message-----
From: nvc-e...@googlegroups.com [mailto:nvc-e...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Gedding
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:27 PM
To: NVC Evolves

[Gedding]

Well the idea is that there is no relevence in an authority.
More accuracy and less violence would come from a list of things one
thinks one can and cannot do.
Without promises or any expectation.

So the "certification" part is kind of for show, or just refers to the
non authoritarian spirit of NVC described in the 2 tenants;

- learning comes from all areas, images/labels/roles/obligations do
not indicate wisdom, and lead instead to disconnection.
- NVC is a growing process.

So to use this OFNR certificate is to understand that it is not using
or supporting the domination model.
So it can never be used to support authoritarion domination.

As for others, well they either believe in the old model and want a
"certified" trainer as a mistaken strategy to meet needs that can be
better met by this new model, a description of what one thinks one can
and cannot do.
So this OFNR certificate makes the initial connection by responding to
the old beliefs (looking official) while the list of skills actually
meets the needs, untill one has developed NVC knowledge to the extent
that they discard the belief in certification.

Or they dont acknoweldge the old model and therefore dont care about
any certificates or initials we have in front of our names.

The only other scenario is (the one i think your talking about) is
that others will think that those with this title still believe in the
authoritarian domination model.

I think so long as those 2 tenants are followed by the "certificate"
very closely whenever it is used it would diffuse this?

"I am an OFNR certified trainer in NVC, who acknowledges NVC is a
dynamic growing process, and that learning comes from all areas,

images/labels/roles/obligations do not indicate wisdom, and lead
instead to disconnection."

How does that sound?

[John Mudie]

Would you be comfortable if I saw people using the label "OFNR certified
trainer in NVC" and decided to call myself an "OFNR certified trainer in
NVC" without even knowing what the letters OFNR stood for?

Would that be OK with you? Or would you prefer to have some organization
deciding who can and who cannot call themselves "OFNR certified trainers"

And if you choose the latter option, we are once more back in the
authoritarian model, except now it's a different set of authorities.

J :)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvc-e...@googlegroups.com [mailto:nvc-e...@googlegroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Gedding
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 9:17 PM
> To: NVC Evolves
> Subject: Re: OFNR Certificate was : NVC Certificate
>
>

[Doug Johnson]

In the OFNR spirit how about web pages for each person (call this person BG for baby giraffe)who
wishes to be known in the world of NVC and OFNR. Part of the web page (a blog page?) could be a
statement by the person describing how they had benefited, how needs of theirs were met, and how
they accomplished as much shifting in to giraffe consciousness as they have accomplished.

THEN allow for paragraphs to be added by folks using their email addresses to qualify for addition
to the site and within their entry allow each person to describe how interacting with BG has enabled
them to maximize getting their needs met, and describe what particular needs were met within what
circumstances and what kinds of shifts took place in their lives. In other words the entire blog
would be filled with OFN stories and maybe R experiences that people had with BG. What could be less
labeling than using no labels. I can sense that even how well the OFNR language would be used would
provide observational information so that choosing with whom to have what kind of experiences would
be enhanced (needs for clarity, giraffe speak, and validation would be supported.)

Eh?

DJ

> .
>

[John Mudie]

Well I and a friend of mine might be able to create a wiki to implement this
idea if there is sufficient interest.

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvc-e...@googlegroups.com [mailto:nvc-e...@googlegroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Doug Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:32 PM
> To: nvc-e...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: OFNR Certificate was : NVC Certificate
>
>

[Angela Harms]

Quick intro: I'm new here, and very excited to find people working in
an open, evolving approach to NVC. I'm not at all new to NVC, but I'm
newly dedicated to making it central in my life, and I find that much
easier in a world that includes these ideas (rather than a top-down
NVC world).

When I hear the word "certified" as applied to a person, I feel yucky
and... what is it? scared, I think, about my values of autonomy for
all people, and of integrity. Does that make sense?

I am also noticing that my needs for clarity and openness clamor for
attention when I hear "certified trainer" (as it's typically used). I
am wanting people to say by whom they're certified. The implication of
"certified trainer" is that there's only one source of "credentials"
so there's no need to specify. I don't have a clear sense of my needs
around this (meaning I'm not confident in my giraffe-talk here) but I
really have a strong *wish* that the CNVC folks would say "CNVC-
certified trainer" or "trainer, certified by CNVC." That feels less
like a label to me, and more like a description. Less closed, more
open.

I have an idea around this: I want to suggest that instead of talking
about certification, we talk about something different, like maybe
"registration." So, I could say "My organization doesn't 'certify,'
but I'm registered with ________. Here's my card (with url)" or "I'm a
registered trainer with (name the organization)." Maybe this: "Cherie
is right that I'm not a certified trainer. I participate in a
different model. I'm a registered trainer with _____."

What I like about this idea is that it seems clean to me; it makes no
pretense of using an authority based structure, and offers no implied
support for such structures. The word "registered" indicates that I've
done something by my own choosing, and taking full responsibility for
it myself, to indicate my interest in the work, that I'm willing to go
"on record." It might also imply that I'm willing to participate in
peer-review, or a person-wiki, or whatever else the organization
provides. It indicates that I share the values of the organization.

It also leaves open the idea that it's totally okay with me if another
group wants to create an organization that has other services
available, chooses not to use a wiki, or even chooses to have a panel
of 'assessors' who determine who is in, and who is not. Other folks
can sign-on with whoever they like, or no group at all.

I can imagine that when searching for a trainer, I might prefer
someone who has registered themselves in that way to someone how has a
stamp of approval from CNVC.

I'd love to hear how this resonates with folks, or doesn't, if anyone
feels moved to share. :)

Angela

[Angela Harms]

On Sep 14, 8:07 pm, "John Mudie" <j...@mudie.info> wrote:
> So how about calling it an OFNR certificate?

Hi! I'm not sure how many people are involved in this discussion,
since I'm new here, but I'm taking this as an open request for
feedback. (If I'm wrong about that, please ignore this.)

I tend to agree with Conal Elliott when he says that what we're doing
is NVC, and we can call it that. One problem I see with calling it
OFNR is that as the model evolves, we might not be using those four
steps, and might regret having that name. I have an aesthetic reaction
to it as well, though.

And I'm wondering if you are wanting to explore the naming issue more?

Angela

[Conal Elliott]

"Cherie
is right that I'm not a certified trainer. I participate in a
different model. I'm a registered trainer with _____."

I like it.  Especially the "different model", which shifts from a negative w.r.t an presumed-important status and hints at something groovier.  The listener can ask for more info about the new model, as interested.

Welcome, Angela!

Warmly,  - Conal

[Conal Elliott]

To me, OFNR is just mechanism, i.e. an entirely dispensable strategy.  Training wheels for baby giraffes.  For me, the heart of NVC is mainly about getting past such strategy attachments.  - Conal

[John Mudie]

Not really. I chose the name OFNR cos I figured it might be a common element
between us and not be linked with the trade-marked "official" triggering
letters NVC.

I am more interested in how to move the organization of people who practice
some thing based on NVC which is such that these people are less likely to
see it as authoritarian and more likely have their needs of inclusion,
participation and mutuality met.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: nvc-e...@googlegroups.com [mailto:nvc-e...@googlegroups.com] On

Behalf Of Angela Harms
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:36 AM
To: NVC Evolves
Subject: Re: OFNR Certificate was : NVC Certificate

[Angela Harms]

I see you saying that you aren't particularly interested in working on what to call it just yet, rather than saying you don't want to change from OFNR to something different. Is that right?

And you're wanting to get the thing created, already?

I love the idea of an organization existing to identify people who find themselves excited about being on this list, for example, and on emergence-of-nvc--people who believe NVC does evolve, and that it'a a beautiful thing that it does, and who want the kind of openness we envision. I'd "register" with that organization for sure!

I'm noticing that register, to me, also means "stand up and be counted." I registered, in fact, on Conal's emergence blog, in that spirit. :-)

So what does it look like? Technologically, maybe it's simply a wiki, with encouragement for everyone to start their own page? Or maybe it's the emergence wiki that already exists?
(http://emergence.awakeningcompassion.com/)

Angela

---
Life. Love. Food. www.lifelovefood.com
Cornucopia Press www.cornucopiapress.com
Writers' Editing Workshop www.writerseditingworkshop.com

[Lea]

> I'm noticing that register, to me, also means "stand up and be counted." I
> registered, in fact, on Conal's emergence blog, in that spirit. :-)

There is a way to register?

[Angela Harms]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 8:41 AM, Conal Elliott <co...@conal.net> wrote:

To me, OFNR is just mechanism, i.e. an entirely dispensable strategy.  Training wheels for baby giraffes.  For me, the heart of NVC is mainly about getting past such strategy attachments.  - Conal

It looks to me like we're in complete agreement about the idea that heart of NVC is not OFNR, and that OFNR is something we use to reach the sacred place, not the sacred place itself. That's a lot of why I don't like the idea of using OFNR in a name.

I also hear you saying that they--OFNR--aren't central, or necessary to a good NVC experience, and that it's important not to be attached to them as a strategy. And I agree with that too, and am excited to see you putting it out there, and excited about other tools developing that we can use, besides OFNR, for learning, remembering, and growing.

I do think they're useful tools, though. When I hear that they're tools for "baby giraffes," I'm uncomfortable. I am not sure we can separate giraffes in that way. I suspect there's a certain level of duress under which we all become babies, and need whatever help we can find.

[Lea]

Hi Conal or Angela,

Could you please tell me what is "registration" in the context of
Conal's blog, and how it is done?
I would stand up and be counted.

Thanks

Lea

[Angela Harms]

This is the page I read, that included instructions:
http://evolve.awakeningcompassion.com/how-to-comment/

Probably not any practical reason, but...

Angela
---
Life. Love. Food. www.lifelovefood.com
Cornucopia Press www.cornucopiapress.com
Writers' Editing Workshop www.writerseditingworkshop.com

[Gedding]

Wow, Thanks Angela!, i LOVED the idea of saying "my organisation does
not register" or "i participate in a different model, i am registered
with ____"!

Fantastic!! Happiness and excitement and relief, needs for
understanding and expression and connection!

I agree that OFRN is not the core of NVC. And i agree with John Mudie
that it would be helpful to use something common that everyone who has
ever encountered NVC would recognise.
That's is why i think NVC should be in the title somewhere.

I like the idea Doug Johnson shared of a website where people could
talk about what needs were helped met by the person!

There is much happiness as this meets needs for clarity, accuracy,
feedback, community!

Most people i have seen using the term "baby giraffe" have been people
able to use NVC but lacking the... self-confidence or arrogance that
the "official trainer" had to call themselves a giraffe or trainer.

To me it seemed the "official trainer" label was a larger block to NVC
than the "baby giraffe" was (ironic), but both were essentially labels
that are not in the spirit of NVC as they lead to disconnection (head-
thinking, roles, obligations).

As i reflect over the last few paragraphs i realise that arrogance
gets the point across better but is very Jackal.
Self-confidence, really means the belief that my self image fits into
the image of the person capable of filling a particular role.
I realise that my apprehension around teaching NVC formally, even tho
i have been asked by former trainers, is around the fact that my self-
image does not fit with my perseption of the image of the person who
can play that role which meets those obligations.

There are 2 strategys to remedying this that i can think of right now.

1- Droping the old notions of obligations, therefore there would be no
role, and no necessary self image.
2- Changing my self-image to incorporate playing that role that can
meet those obligations.
3- Droping the adhesion to self-images itself. Dropping the concept
entirely.

1- seems to be NVC.
2- seems to be self-help and assertiveness training.
3- seems to be the spiritual task.


I have gone off on a tangent... any thoughts/feedback?
Should i move this last bit to another thread?

[Craig Sones Cornell]

Angela, I am enjoying your apparent enthusiasm and energy in your
posts. It seems to me that NVC including OFNR is a strategy to meet
needs and connect with what is truly alive in people. I get the sense
that you would agree and would appreciate clarification.

> It looks to me like we're in complete agreement about the idea that heart of
> NVC is not OFNR, and that OFNR is something we use to reach the sacred
> place, not the sacred place itself. That's a lot of why I don't like the
> idea of using OFNR in a name.

What is your vision of the sacred space that we reach through NVC
amongst other techniques?

> I do think they're useful tools, though. When I hear that they're tools for
> "baby giraffes," I'm uncomfortable. I am not sure we can separate giraffes
> in that way. I suspect there's a certain level of duress under which we all
> become babies, and need whatever help we can find.

In my experience personally and as an observer of NVC'ers with decades
of experience, OFNR can be a life line to connection rather than
separation when triggerd or lost in some wallow or irritation. I react
also the the relegation of OFNR as tools for baby giraffes.

All the best, Craig.

>
> Angela
>
> ---
> Life. Love. Food.www.lifelovefood.com
> Cornucopia Presswww.cornucopiapress.com
> Writers' Editing Workshopwww.writerseditingworkshop.com

[Gedding]

Did someone set up a web page where we can register our desire to
share NVC, and encourage feedback from others as to what action of
ours did/didn't meet needs?

I've very keen to get myself registered!

[Angela Harms]

Workin' on it. :)

---
Life. Love. Food. www.lifelovefood.com
Cornucopia Press www.cornucopiapress.com
Writers' Editing Workshop www.writerseditingworkshop.com