Feelings vs. Sensations
E.G Hornfield
Ive heard that Susan Skye was shifting her focus from being in touch
and sharing FEELINGS as an integral part of NVC , to being in touch
and sharing SENSATIONS.
This is conjecture, though i also heard it was for the reason that
most feeling words no matter if they are free from "other" blame =
disappointment, annoyance, are still EVALUATIONS of SENSATIONS in the
body. So, feelings words, if there not observable sensations, are
thoughts....?
"I feel lost" about this speculative opinion.
When i think about and reread what ive portrayed, "i feel lost."
I sense a twirling and lightens.
I focus on that.
I sense tension, and hear reactions like,
"I dono if im making sense. I have to make sense. They wont like me
if i dont write clearly. Do i not write clearly because i am
rebelling against writing clearly?
sigh..breath
I feel lost = i dont hear above inner reaction
I sense twirling = i hear above inner reaction
Sensations, are a essential part of E. Gendlin's Focusing philosophy
and modal.
It appears that he see's feelings as ideas mixed with body sensations.
Perhaps, i could conclude with this modal:
0) Feelings such as anger, shame are direct evaluative thinking mixed
with sensations such as tension or jumpy-ness
1) Feelings such as disappointment, abandoned, annoyed = Projective"
you did this body sensations to me." No ownership.
2) Feelings such as Happy, sad, upset, unwilling, interested, glad,
satisfied, relieved, grateful, troubled, friendly = Analysis based
thoughts of sensations
3) Feelings such as calm, cold, unease, stuck, open, tense, light,
prickly, jittery, locked up, heavy, = objective words describing
sensations directly
So, what am i trying to conclude. I guess nothing. Im asking myself
to honur that feelings words within NVC are still thoughts of
sensations in the body. Even sensations in the body are language
though they seem to be more in-tune to what is going on then #2
Mabye this is why ive heard the use NVC being judged as mechanical, or
fake, or hidding manipulation.
Perhaps its accurate to say that FEELINGS are of the body?
To describe feelings we use words.
The categories above could demonstrate the potential connection one
has with the body at the time of communication. That would be
analysis. mmmmm
According to Gendlin it takes time to get in touch with the body-
mind. TRYING to communicate from the body still involves you. Trying
to communicate from that vague place in real time seems challenging to
me, because I DONT KNOW. So, he suggests listening to the body, to
the inners, and allowing them to communicate back. Maybe thats what
NVC defines as self empathy? Still somehow something is a miss for
me. How familiar is that thought, " i dont trust something."
NVC is a communication tool / philosophy and shared as a "language."
If, to follow my logic, i am to communicate in real time with apply
Gendlin's time body mind theory, it would take time and space to
communicate accurately and clearly.
-------------------
I saw this...and i feel...
mmmm....welll.....wait...im going to let go of figuring that out,
though i know i could but i trust that if i dont ill get into
something deeper.....oohhhhh.....tense.....stuck....mmmmm
ya inside says horribleness......(listening to jackal from a body
sensation connection?)
....really i hear ( yuck)........youck....ewwwwww.....heavy.....
"BIG EVALUATIVE REACTION" comes out.
Then big WANT. Then action maybe.
---------------------------
mmmmmm, so my theory is that we can't be connected to our real
reactions without being deeply in-touch and listening to our body.
Even if we observe it doesn't mean our REACTION is gone. That seems
NVCish....waiting till the observation meshes with our body state?
Though thats pretty challenging to do when it conversation?
What ya think? OR, How you FEEL THINK SENSE?
Niklas Wilkens
if I were to say what I sense or feel in reaction to this, I must confess that I estimate that it would take me a long time to do it. What you describe resonates with me, I see a contribution in it. I'm in agreement that most feeling-words are still in connection to thoughts and a context. And to totally let go of the thoughts is hard to do when they are so mixed with feelings. To me, making the distinction and being aware of the difference sounds a lot like what meditation is about. Observing without automatic and unaware reaction, i.e. if there's a reaction, observe that too. By that you're no longer identified with your reaction and that opens a space and reveals your potential.
But I myself find that not easy to do. Especially right now where I feel a constant tension and I don't know what to do with it. Being aware of it relaxes it a little bit but the moment I pay attention to something else it gets worse. I estimate that the discouragement about the ability to really get a relief is it, that keeps us from being really connected to our body sensation. If all we find there is tension and heavy feelings, we better don't go there. So what can we do to get a relief?
For myself I wish I knew a safe space where I could go right now and really take care of my unmet needs without being confronted with enormous doubts about whether they can be met at all. It is these doubts which create the tension. The doubt whether I fit here, whether I can really be me without compromise. Without it, it would be much easier to stay present with the actual sensations within my body.
In a conversation I would finde that challenging too. It of course depends on what kind of conversation it is, what purpose it has. Either it's about sharing and empathy, about pure connection and emotional resonance. Or it's about exchanging knowledge and strategies, about finding solutions to a situation, about making requests. In the latter in would be more challenging than in the former. And one can use the former for the latter as a kind of clarification before making requests.
But this also takes me to the question of what we actually want. Why do we want to be clear about the difference of sensations and feelings? What advantage does it bring? You see, assuming life is a game, we want it to have a good ratio between randomness and rules. Too much randomness means being mixed up, lost and eventually bored, too many rules means too heavy and too complicated for enjoying it. So in which way does this add to having what in life? Any idea?
Curiously
Niklas
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:46:04 -0700 (PDT)
> Von: "E.G Hornfield" <living...@gmail.com>
> An: NVC Evolves <nvc-e...@googlegroups.com>
> Betreff: Feelings vs. Sensations
--
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Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger
John Mudie
" For myself I wish I knew a safe space where I could go right now and
really take care of my unmet needs without being confronted with enormous
doubts about whether they can be met at all."
WARNING This message does not contain empathy but does contains observation
and possibly unsolicited advice. Read at your own risk
Niklas, when I read this, a whole bunch of pain came up for me , about the
thought that you might be sensing your needs and having the desire to have
them all met and be faced with the realization that they may not be met. And
you might be feeling frustration that they weren't being met and may not in
fact ever be met.
My latest understanding around this subject is that the important thing for
me to do is to learn how to experience unmet needs and to retain equanimity
around them when they are not being met. This would mean that I would retain
equanimity whether or not my needs were being met at any particular instant
in time.
I suspect the way to do this is just to sit there and to explore what the
need represents and to breathe in and out and maybe just to watch the
feelings of comfort when I imagine the need being met and the feelings of
discomfort when the need is not being met.
As an example of this , I am experiencing a situation in which the love of
my life has decided to spend time with another man and not to relate to me
anymore. So when I see her car I get triggered. So I then feel the reaction,
maybe sadness and then find the need, say companionship. So then I sit and
breathe into and explore my need for companionship. I don't know if its very
useful but right now her car is getting less and less of a trigger for me
and more and more of just being a car.
I doubt that this approach is a new idea. I adapted it from a CD on
"Confusion" put out by a guy called Shinzen Young http://www.shinzen.org/
Wanna share your reaction ?
John
Niklas Wilkens
yes, I want to share my reaction. Thanks for your response. And I laughed reading your disclaimer. You know one thing I like about this group compared to other groups dealing with NVC is that here we allow ourselves the diversity of speech, method and thinking. I see your response as an expression of this and I'm grateful for it. Also I'm grateful for the sympathy and understanding of the pain I feel, doubting that my needs may ever be met.
Right after I sent this post you reacted to, I did something like what you suggested. My situation contains something similar. My ex-girlfriend is not interested in seeing me anymore or spending time with me. My way of meditating on this was to write a draft of an email, which I haven't sent yet and I'm not sure I ever will. The point of the email was to express what's going on for me without any attempt to control her reaction. It was to bring to the point the precious needs that aren't met and that I would love to meet with her. I have a memory of a moment with her, in which she revealed her fear of closeness to me and I was so grateful, touched and overwhelmed by compassion and love for her, when she did this. I'm not sure whether I remember anything else that was so intimate. She completely let go of any attempt to control the situation, to do anything about this but was just there in her vulnerability. And that gave me the marvelous gift of an opportunity to show my unconditional love to her. I will never forget this.
Seeing how important this intimacy is to me and how much I would love to reveal something about myself so intimate and alive, I take a different attitude to the state of affairs. I feel less inclined to want to change it. I recognize her way of doing things as the best way she knows how to meet her needs. Maybe I will send this email as to share what's so precious for me, but the main thing is that I savor my need for intimacy and retaining equanimity as to whether it's met or not right now. Especially intimacy is very dependend on honesty and clarity about what's going on for me so I might even have ways to have this special connection with myself.
It's kind of funny, isn't it, that the current emotional state is so easily picked up and extrapolated into the future as "it will always be that way". And the more this happens, the more likely it is to become true. So equanimity about the question whether the needs are met or not right now seems to be really important. Just the attention on the needs themselves and exploring them seems to do the shift. Any other experiences with this?
Kindly
Niklas
John Mudie
" Any other experiences with this?"
Thanks Niklas. I have a deep need for preaching :)
WARNING. This message contains implicit advice. Read at your own risk.
Meditation and mindfulness are becoming very important to me. It is a method
for encouraging me to improve my skills in the Observing and Feeling states
of NVC
I am noticing that all the suffering around my last relationship stems from
the fact that I see her, then go into the past and remember how it once was,
closeness, communication and all that stuff. And then I think it should be
that way right now but it isn't because right in front of my face, she is
sitting at a table with another man.
And so, whoomps, I am into suffering because my mind says the present isn't
the way it "should" be.
Mindfulness practice helps me to improve my skills in just staying in the
present.
So, while you were replying to my message, I was sitting on a cushion
practicing mindfulness.
John
Recovering Jackal
This message does not necessarily have the approval of CNVC and may not
contain politically correct usage of NVC terminology.
Emma McCreary
In my learning of NVC, mindfulness has been a huge part of what has
helped me be able to actually integrate NVC consciousness, rather than
just learn the model.
I think of mindfulness as being able to have a part of my mind always
watching what is going on in my body, so I can respond with self-
empathy whenever anything arises that disturbs my equanimity. That's
the ideal anyway, not that I'm always there! But I'm learning,
practicing.
Equanimity I think of as the state of being unattached to any
particular outcome. I experinece it as just being in the present
moment and open to whatever arises both inside and outside. For me
that is very keenly felt in my body. Attachment feels like tension,
crunched up muscles. Equanimity feels like a loose, open feeling, and
I notice it particularly in my stomach. A lot of my attachments show
up as tension in my belly, and when I release them my belly feels
loose and relaxed. It's quite a delicious feeling of freedom, being
unattached to what might happen!
Self-empathy is one strategy to help me get back to equanimity when I
notice I'm attached to something. I notice what needs and feelings are
alive in me, also what jackals are running, just becoming aware of
what's there, and I give empathy, affection, affirmtion, attention,
acceptance to whatever part of me is stuck - whatever it needs. Then I
also use conscious relaxing and breathing and consciously decide to
let go of the attachment - whatever I'm wanting or not wanting to be
so. When all goes well, this re-creates the bodily sensation of
equanimity. =)
I've noticed that the more I recreate equanimity, the easier it is for
my body to recognize it and return to it. I think of it as a muscle
that I am exercising.
How this relates to NVC for me is that I see attachment as when I want
my need to be met by a particular strategy, including a particular
time frame (my understanding is that time is a strategy). When I'm
attached to a strategy, I'm going to be coming from demand energy when
I make a request. Whereas when I am in equanimity-land, I can ask, be
happy if my need is fulfilled in that way, or if not, have the space
to ask someone else or meet it myself, to be creative about it. So
that spaciousness of equanimity I think is essential to me really
coming from NVC consciousness.
Unrelated: The other thing that pops up reading about the idea of
Feelings vs Sensations is the book Conscious Loving by Gay and Kathryn
Hendricks, they talk about honestly sharing the "micro-truth" of your
experience, and they define that as the bodily sensations that are
going on for you as they arise. Their field is couples communication
and I've always enjoyed their perspective and find it compatible with
NVC.
Cheers,
Emma
Susan L
I have enjoyed your contributions in this group SO MUCH!! I love the
way you move seamlessly between rational argument and emotional
expression in a way that I can easily tell the difference without your
having to make it explicit. I celebrate your insight and clarity and
your generous open heart.
> ... mindfulness has been a huge part of what has
> helped me be able to actually integrate NVC consciousness.
Your discussion of mindfulness reminded me to share a couple of
things. First is what I call the scan. It's my way of taking a time
out, or checking in with myself, or self-connecting, or preparing for
a meditation. I call it a scan because it is a form of self-
examination, and when I examine something, I want to do it in a very
thorough and systematic way so that I don't miss anything. So I
examine myself, from the periphery of my fingers and toes to the core
of my head and trunk, three times. The first time, I'm looking for
body sensations. Then I go back and look for emotions. Then I go
back a third time and look for thoughts.
I do it in this order because it's the body sensations that tend to be
the most fleeting - so much so that sometimes just paying attention to
them changes them; while the thoughts can wait because tend to be the
most persistent - so much so that they become tapes that play on some
kind of continuous loop until I turn them off with an intentional act
of will. And I like using the term "emotions" for what Marshall calls
"feelings" because it clearly distinguishes between the feelings we
get as a result of sensory input or changes in our skeletal-muscular
systems (body sensations) and the feelings we get as a result of
internal chemical secretions.
The second piece I want to share is something I picked up in therapy.
It can be useful to talk about mindfulness as a skill set because a
great deal of suffering due to "shoulds" can be avoided that way.
Does the following sound familiar? "I have no problem focusing my
attention, so why can't I meditate?" "I'm a right-brained, left-
handed artist; I should be able to do this!" So I think of
mindfulness as being comprised of six skills - three What skills that
describe what it is we are trying to do, and three How skills that
point me in the direction of how to do it.
WHAT SKILLS
Observe - Since language only points to experience, I want to practice
exercising awareness without words. Can a word like "cat" ever
capture the beauty and mystery of the feline I live with?
Describe - This is the skill I see so richly employed in this group -
expressing abstractions clearly enough that you can recreate a
reasonable facsimile of your own experience in me, just through the
words you put on them!
Participate - This is easy for me - so easy that it's more difficult
for me to describe. It's what I mean when I say that I'm really into
music. It's a quality of engagement or presence that I bring.
HOW SKILLS
Non-judgmentally - I prefer "heartfully" since judgments are a
cognitive thing and I'm always looking for a way to express myself by
saying what a thing is rather than what it's not. But surely we know
what this means. It's probably the aspect of mindfulness that I
struggled with the most. "I don't want to give up making judgments -
I want to make better ones!" was my protest on being introduced to
this skill. It wasn't until I realized that, if I gave up "bad," I
would be relieved of the responsibility of "good." Only by doing that
can I come to the place of "radical acceptance" of what is.
One-mindfully - This is the recognition that multi-tasking is anathema
to mindfulness. In order to really participate, I want to bring my
full attention to it.
Effectively - This is about losing attachment to strategies and
evaluating strategies according to which one meets the most needs on
the table and/or which one is most consistent with the values of the
strategizer.
I'm grateful for this chance to march some of this out for an audience
because this is an offering I'd like to share at an intensive when I
finally get to serve on a leadership support team. I have handouts
and exercises and meditations for each, but I promise I didn't peek
because I wanted to see how much of it I could set out in an orderly
way. I would be interested in having your reactions and input to help
me develop these ideas for the NVC participant.
> Self-empathy is one strategy to help me get back to equanimity
exercise she described in one of the Ask the Trainer segments at the
NVC Academy. After she identifies the unmet need that is "up," she
connects with it by saying to herself, "I love it when my need for
[fill in the blank] is met." Of course, that can look much more
idiomatic, e.g. I love it when there is order in my life. Then do the
scan, and if there is still tension or unpleasantness, it is likely
due to another need that's clamoring for attention. All she's doing
here is connecting deeply with the energy of the need. When all the
needs have been addressed, then she finds that her need for empathy is
met, and if any needs remain unmet, then she's in much better shape to
strategize about how to meet them - or live with them as unmet needs
in the moment.
Emma, I'm particularly interested in how you are reacting to my take
on what we could loosely call the "inner work" since you seemed to
have a lot of interest in this topic.
Peace and Love
Susan Livingston
Susan L
I loved reading this:
> My latest understanding around this subject is that the important thing for
> me to do is to learn how to experience unmet needs and to retain equanimity
> around them when they are not being met. This would mean that I would retain
> equanimity whether or not my needs were being met at any particular instant
> in time.
service. Once in a while, I see something useful, but for the most
part, I find it pretty lifeless. When I notice the signature block -
"May all of your needs be met" - I get that uncomfortable "glossing
over" feeling that I've seen expressed in this group as something that
doesn't meet needs for respect.
I want to be seen in my power and integrity. Meeting needs is not the
most important thing in life, and I'm strong enough to live with some
of my needs not being met some of the time. After all, it is unmet
needs that keep us striving and from which our creativity is born.
Thanks, John, for bringing me to this insight.