How Personal Development is NVC?

[E.G Hornfield]

I wonder how similar NVC is to general methodologies with the
Personal Development / New Thought / Self-Help field?

mmmmmm.....

Think and grow "connected"?

[E.G Hornfield]

Yes, im noticing that the approach to sharing NVC and NVC itself is
very similar to Personal Development (PD) general philosophies.

For instance,
PRESENTATION:
1) teacher / student = stage, dictated learned, pre created curriculum
2) train the trainer
3) founder / trainer / member
4) intensives, workshops, few books that are simple and action based
5) focus on the modal
6) static systems that dont change
7) branded material
8) community movements
9) pay for information or experience
10) free line seminars or teleconferences
11) following group guides LL Companion books
12) Following the leader
13) Little talk of influences or if there is then the same examples or
quotes
14) Idolize the guru
etc etc etc

Wow, NVC seems very similar to most Personal Development mindset
systems and tools. Though NVC actually contradicts itself being part
of a self-help / PD marketing system.

PD # 1 attitude = Content and Marketing are the same ...lo...i doubt
its #1

Amazing!!!!

I feel embarrassed that i didn't see this perspective earlier.


What do you think?

[Emma McCreary]

Hmm. I feel perplexed and uncomfortable reading this.

I'm hearing a criticism of NVC, and an implied criticism of "PD" and
new thought/ self-help work.

I'm aware of the immense value I've gotten from all sorts of personal
growth work, branded and unbranded, as well as the numerous workshops,
classes, community movements, etc. while i have observed some of the
issues you raise in some of these groups, each of my experiences have
been unique.

I'm guessing you are wanting more awareness of something? perhaps more
authenticity in terms of how content is presented? I'm wanting to hear
and honor those needs, and I'm seeking ways that this post could be
shared so I could hear those.

Would you be interested in sharing with me the needs that are
underneath your post?

i'm also hearing a set of standard/expectations, perhaps you'd be
willing to name the jackals there ie "NVC should ..." or "groups aimed
at helping people shouldn't...".

Emma

[E.G Hornfield]

I wonder how your doing?
In reading my post did you get kinda triggered? Did you want PD and
NVC to be seen as it has been for you, in each unique experience, a
really helpful experience no matter the social implications and
pedagogical reasoning?
Did you want me to acknowledge the generality i made by calling many
things PD?
Guess you want to be connected to me around the meaning of my PD / NVC
revelational writings? Do you want me to see the value you have
gotten out of certain PD / NVC treasure boxes?


Ill do my best here to be clear but im just getting up and i have a
lot to say probably in a poorly written way. :)


Oh, Im acknowledging NVC as similar to PD in an approach in teaching
and methodology.
I imply, if anything, that PD , as in other posts that you have been
involved in,

"As in perhaps they never realized they were adopting domination
organizational structures, they just set up the organization like all
the other organizations they had seen
or been part of. " -emma

I also think that there are expectations for NVC and or CNVC to act or
behave close or aligned with there own philosophies. I think that MBR
is into NVC? I guess sometimes he's not, but if he isnt over time, i
would wonder why???



From my research and loads of experience, the structures within PD are
regualrly founded on domination / directive / fear based ideologies.
Please research for yourself, NEW Thought, Napoleon Hill or just go
here:

http://cornerstone.wwwhubs.com/framepage.htm

I must remember sometimes that Human potential thinking is founded on
late victorian spiritualism and social eugenics. Shared power-with
like mentoring wasn't on the agenda or mindset of the great Ascona
gurus.

I m not saying, nor have said that there isnt worth, intrigue, insight
and amazing helpfulness within PD, NVC or unity, monotheistic
panentheism:)

Nor, do i think that NVC or PD should be another way then whatever it
is. I JUST DIDNT THINK NVC was part of something that i was stumbling
around, for some reason. I wasnt to see NVC as different. I think
it is though, locked up in something quite alienating.

I dont believe i have "needs" as i have mentioned in other emails. Im
somewhat stumbling around and over the idea that NEEDs psychology,
"neef, maslow, a.robbins, HPM, rosenberg, " are based on certain
social darwinian constructs. Not actually valuing life. More like
managing and controlling it. I will post more on this issue as
requested or on a later date.

Quick blurb on Maslow:
Fascism and Democracy in the Human Mind: A Bridge between Mind and
Society by Israel W. Charny (pp. 42-44): Note: I wonder how accurate
this is?

"An excellent and sadly shattering example of the way the mind of a
devoted humanistic psychologist can move along the same track of the
fascist paradigm to a point where he calls for execution [sic] of the
nonbelievers -- in this case, nonbelievers in humanism! -- is found in
the posthumously published writings of no less than Abraham Maslow,
recognized and beloved as the founder of modern humanistic psychology!
The same Maslow who conceptualized the unfolding development of the
mind and personality of a person as the highest state of human
development, and who attributed to the "self-actualized" person an
ethical and empathic orientation toward other human beings and the
society in which he lives, was revealed after his death to be a highly
self-involved, bitter loner filled with contempt and rage at the many
people who did not appreciate him or his ideas, and who dared to
conceive on a broader community level the identification and execution
of those who opposed proposed humanistic policies for the betterment
of society.

The following are shocking, almost unbelievable excerpts from Maslow's
posthumously published writings:

Humanistic psychology absolutely needs a doctrine of an elite, degrees
of humanness, health and sickness, winners and losers, aggridants
(whether by heredity or by learning), good specimens, no equal votes,
non-equal weighting. The taste or judgment of one superior can and
should outweigh 1000 or a million blind ones.
The Third-Force philosophy is antideath-wish, anti-exploiting of
others, antistunting or crippling, antivalue-destroying, antibaby-
crippling and diminishing; anti-unrealism = antifake.... We keep alive
many of the people whom nature left to itself would kill off. So we
are hurting the human gene pool, which must be deteriorating. We can
certainly continue to do this, to be compassionate with anyone living,
but this right to reproduce might very well be limited. In the
immediate future -- within the next century -- we must anyway cut hack
the population of the world. The right to reproduce must surely become
rather a privilege which is socially controlled and socially
granted.... One could speculate that the worsening gene pool is partly
responsible for the large number of naysayers, death-wishers and born
losers and schlemiels.

I find myself secretly entertaining all sorts of "cold-blooded"
possibilities... drug users are performing a kind of biologically
unselfish act, a sort of noblesse oblige for the good of the species
and voluntarily killing themselves "for the good of the gene
pool." ... Sooner or later, after the catastrophes force us to pace
the overpopulation, we'll stop with all the crap about more food, or
better strains of rice {which just produce more people). How can we
give up on humanitarianism? But how can we not permit voluntary (or
maybe involuntary) euthanasia and suicide? One day we'll have to talk
about the exposure or killing of monster-babies, or even of healthy
surplus babies."

wow huh......



I do acknowledge that i WANT things and i WANT big ideas in some vauge
meaningful way. AND that those big ideas are similar to others big
MEANINGS.

Combination of relativism and universalism? :)


I might be able to respond to your request for me to share my NEEDS,
by saying, i find so much meaning in making sense of the complexities
of experience. I sensed tension when i looked at and experienced how
NVC has presented its material, and structured its learning and
administration of that learning. This tension arises because i want
the whole picture in life. For pieces to fall into place and find
some harmonious congruence. For what i see and hear to not
contradict.

There are times that I may become attached to that value i put on
seeing the whole picture, and then can see how i think that i should
see the whole picture or that NVC, in this case, should show it to
me. Or then if they're not or im not not doing that i should be
different...?

Im surprised and shocked that i didn't acknowledge the simplicity of
greeting this whole picture. I was trying so hard to make sense of
things from this state of I HAVE TO UNDERSTAND. This tension shifted
when I asked myself to see the multi-faceted organization that NVC is
a part of. When focusing on NVC not as the thing that has been so
helpful or great, or moving to meet NEEDS, I saw that it was so caught
up in something. And, this post was , for me, a recognition, of NVC
being caught up in LGATs, static modals, idols, etc see original
post: no matter the philosophical contradiction. I believe the list
i offered in the original post is accurate to some level, and im
making a vlaue judgement saying, that those techniques for sharing,
presenting, or selling an idea or experience are based on DOMINATION
ideals, and are ineffective to creating a real sense of of some
descriptive meanings such as freedom, growth, intelligence,
understanding, and actual connection.


This is a critisism of the approach and attitude to learning, sharing,
and being in relationship that is delivered by the foundational ideas
of PD and NVC. I understand how each PD experience is going to be
unique. Just like every ice cream eatting experience will taste
potential different, its all cold though.
lol
well, there are different degrees of ice to watery cream. Sometimes
different ingreedients? Similar processes?

hummmmm....ive gone on a big rant. Yum,

Thanks and acknoldging the challenge of reading through it all,
eZ

[Emma McCreary]

Hi,

Thanks for the reflection back. I don't feel triggered, more
uncomfortable. I feel tension in my stomach and a clenchy feeling
hearing your thoughts about NVC. So different from my experiences with
it! I'm wanting understanding and clarity, and I also have a fear
around other people getting "the wrong idea" about NVC. I want to
share my experience of the difference between "talking about
NVC" (especially in a jackal way involving standards, expectations,
and generalizations!) and "doing NVC", ie connecting with what is
alive in each other. The former is boring and disconnecting for me,
and the second is juicy and real and exciting for me.

On that note, I'd like to try guessing where you are at!

What I'm hearing is that you are excited and happy that you had a
thought about how NVC (or maybe CNVC?) is related to a set of ideas
that you have about other groups and/or methodologies. You have a
mental model of how these groups operate and you got to fit NVC into
it, and you were surprised that your mind hadn't suggested that option
before. I'm guessing your need for clarity was met and you feel happy
about that and wanted to share?

That's what I'm hearing, is that accurate? If not, please let me know!

Then I'm wondering what comes up for you when I suggest that the way
you were writing about NVC just now involved standards? Do you share
my understanding of standards and expectations being a form of jackal-
consciousness?

Am also wanting to honor my need for authenticity by sharing that I
didn't read your whole letter. I zoned out about halfway through it. I
appreciate your enthusiasm AND I got bored and overwhelmed by all the
words. I found myself uninterested in the discussion of the historical
precedents of NVC and theoretical similarities or dissimilarities. I
just want to *live NVC conscousness*. I'm guessing these are
interesting to you though, and maybe someone else here will want to
discuss them with you!

Emma