Atlantic Marine
R. W. Smallwood
Marine Atlantic is shutting down its Moncton NB office with 90 employees to
split those jobs between Port aux Basques Nf&Lb and Cape Briton N.S.
The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld. The 18 jobs
to Port aux Basques will come from Moncton.
Interesting math. 90 Moncton jobs turn into 18 jobs in NS. Newfoundland
gets 18 jobs redeployed from St. John's to Port aux Basques. By my count
that comes to Zero jobs moved to Nf&Lb, 18 jobs moved to NS, and 72 jobs
reassigned, hidden, and in neither NS nor Nf&Lb.
Those high paid Canada bureaucrats vowed never to move to Newfoundland.
They share Wally's contempt for living amongst Newfoundlanders. Well it now
appears to be a Canadian's right not to live in Newfoundland when their
whole career is centered on regulating Newfoundland.
This open contempt of Newfoundland by those who directly regulate us is
accepted and fostered by Canada. Of the 90 jobs supporting ferry service in
Atlantic Canada, none would move to Newfoundland. Newfoundland has the ONLY
vital ferry links in Atlantic Canada. Newfoundlands South Coast, the
Northern Peninsula's East Coast and Labrador Coast all depend on ferry
service for vital supplies. The 1949 BNA Act requires the maintenance of
Newfoundland Steamship Lines.
In Canada, Newfoundland is a leper. The Constitution fails to defend
Newfoundland's rights. We do not have to take this abuse. We have more
resources per person than anywhere else on earth. Canada is counting on our
resources to pull their economy. The time has come to cut the Canadian
albatross adrift.
Joe Whye
"R. W. Smallwood" <inc...@avint.net> wrote:
>
>Interesting math. 90 Moncton jobs turn into 18 jobs in NS. Newfoundland
>gets 18 jobs redeployed from St. John's to Port aux Basques. By my count
>that comes to Zero jobs moved to Nf&Lb, 18 jobs moved to NS, and 72 jobs
>reassigned, hidden, and in neither NS nor Nf&Lb.
>
That's what my math tells me too .
This is not the math the N.S. media coverage of this announcement
used either . As I recall we were told that the CN Marine jobs were
split 50/50 with Port Aux Basques .
I don't recall any mention of the fact that the 18 Port Aux Basques
jobs were relocations from St. John's in the N.S. media .
I think what we have here is election math in action again , it is no
coincidence that this announcement from CN Marine was delayed untill
after the N.S. election and it is pretty obvious to Nova Scotians that
Premiere Russell M called in a few favours owing from his many many
years as federal liberal backbencher and got the remaining Moncton
jobs for his own riding .
If CN Marine resources are to be allocated based on greatest need
/ greatest good all the jobs should have gone to Port Aux Basques .
>
>This open contempt of Newfoundland by those who directly regulate us is
>accepted and fostered by Canada.
But not by all Canadians by any means .
Much of the disrespect shown to Atlantic Canada comes more from
ignorance than malice .
It is up to Atlantic Canadians to take control of our own economic
destiny . I feel if Atlantic Canadians showed a little more political
solidarity with one another instead of playing the games of rivalry
that serve those who would divide , weaken and marginalize us then
we would have some hope of altering the crippling federal
paternalistic imperialistic policies directed against our region .
Piotr Trela
R. W. Smallwood (inc...@avint.net) wrote:
: Marine Atlantic is shutting down its Moncton NB office with 90 employees to
: split those jobs between Port aux Basques Nf&Lb and Cape Briton N.S.
: The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld. The 18 jobs
^^^^^^^^^^^
: to Port aux Basques will come from Moncton.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: Interesting math. 90 Moncton jobs turn into 18 jobs in NS. Newfoundland
: gets 18 jobs redeployed from St. John's to Port aux Basques. By my count
: that comes to Zero jobs moved to Nf&Lb, 18 jobs moved to NS, and 72 jobs
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: reassigned, hidden, and in neither NS nor Nf&Lb.
The interesting math aside (18 = 0 - Robert can you fit it to a curve
using Basic - I'd bet those engineers and Ph.D.'s can't) -
could it be that those jobs "reassigned, hidden and in neither NS and
NF&Lb" are not hidden, but eliminated altogether? You know, they have
a bridge between PEI and NS now. (Also, if I am not mistaken, they
planned to abandon/privatize the Yarmouth/Maine ferry). Less routes, less
ships to operate.
Do you seriously demand that the taxpayer pay the same number of
bureaucrats to do half a work?
: Those high paid Caada bureaucrats vowed never to move to Newfoundland.
: They share Wally's contempt for living amongst Newfoundlanders.
You can't win - you damned if you don't move to NF, you damned
if you do. I moved - and voila - I take away scarce NF resources and pose
a threat to Newfoundland children. ( Booo! )
Piotr Trela
R. W. Smallwood
Piotr Trela <ptr...@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> wrote in article
<6gmmbs$v7m$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...
> R. W. Smallwood (inc...@avint.net) wrote:
> : Marine Atlantic is shutting down its Moncton NB office with
> : 90 employees to split those jobs between Port aux Basques Nf&Lb
> : and Cape Briton N.S.
> : The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld.
> : The 18 jobs to Cape Breton will come from Moncton.
> : Interesting math. 90 Moncton jobs turn into 18 jobs in NS.
> : Newfoundland gets 18 jobs redeployed from St. John's to Port aux > :
Basques.
> : By my count that comes to Zero jobs moved to Nf&Lb,
> : 18 jobs moved to NS,
> : and 72 jobs reassigned, hidden, and in neither NS nor Nf&Lb.
>
> The interesting math aside (18 = 0 - Robert can you fit it to a curve
> using Basic - I'd bet those engineers and Ph.D.'s can't) -
1) Both St. John's and Port aux Basques are in Newfoundland. Piotr must
know that St. John's is in Newfoundland, because he lives in St. John's.
2) When I say there are ZERO (0) jobs being moved to Newfoundland I mean
just that. To move jobs from St. John's to Port aux Basques does not move
any jobs INTO Newfoundland. Why would Trela, a PhD, poke fun at PhD's?
This is so stunned a math error, I find it hard to believe that even Piotr
Trela made it. My suspicion is that dad...@thezone.net is up to his usual
pranks. It demonstates all the poor comprehension of someone who still
contends that Joey Smallwood shut down the CNR and sold the rolling stock
to his buddies.
> You can't win - you damned if you don't move to NF, you damned
> if you do. I moved - and voila - I take away scarce NF resources
> and pose a threat to Newfoundland children. ( Booo! )
A failure to differentiate between employees and jobs is more along the IQ
of John Joker Sr. than Dr. Trela. Up to now Trela has shown poor logic and
judgement. But to include poor math and poor comprehension by a PhD is too
much for me to accept all at once. Furthermore Piotr Trela's logic has up
to now not drawn in lateral topics, such as the basic program reference,
nor has he been this sarcastic. This smells like another John Joker Sr.
fake post.
Why should JOBS be moved to Newfoundland?
1) Newfoundland has the lowest employment and salaries in Canada,
2) Government spending represents 40% of Canada's GDP,
!) Therefor lack of Canada jobs here is harming Newfoundlanders.
3) All vital ferry service in Eastern Canada is to service Newfoundland.
!) Therefor the purpose and location of the ferry work should be
Newfoundland.
4) Newfoundland contributes more to Canada per person than any other
province.
!) Therefor we should not be repressed to be Canada's poorest province.
5) Canada civil servant jobs based in central Canada hires people with a
propensity to mismanage Newfoundland (eg. fishery and sprung)
Why should Newfoundlanders get jobs at MUN?
1) MUN exists to serve Newfoundlanders, not professors from abroad nor
students from abroad.
2) MUN graduates should be trained enough to regurgitate the same lessons
from text books as was regurgitated to them.
3) Graduate Newfoundlanders best apply science to Newfoundland issues.
4) Newfoundlanders best understand Newfoundlanders' academic needs.
5) It gives jobs to Newfoundlanders.
6) It increases the employment efficiency of MUN graduates.
R. W. Smallwood
> R. W. Smallwood (inc...@avint.net) wrote:
> : Marine Atlantic is shutting down its Moncton NB office with 90
> : employees to split those jobs between Port aux Basques Nf&Lb and
> : Cape Briton N.S.
> : The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld.
> : The 18 jobs to Port aux Basques will come from Moncton.
> : Interesting math. 90 Moncton jobs turn into 18 jobs in NS.
> : Newfoundland gets 18 jobs redeployed from St. John's to Port aux
> : Basques. By my count that comes to Zero jobs moved to Nf&Lb,
> : 18 jobs moved to NS, and 72 jobs reassigned, hidden, and in
> : neither NS nor Nf&Lb.
> 18 + 18 =18. Interesting math indeed. |-)
This coming from a PhD working in the Physics department. I guess math is
no longer a requirement for a Physics PhD.
> As for jobs being "reassigned, hidden" outside of NS or NF&Lbd. - they
> have a bridge between PEI and NS now, and if I am not mistaken they
> planned to abandon/privatize the Yarmouth/Maine ferry. Marine Atlantic
> doesn't need so many people because they operate less ship and less
> routes. Would you rather have the same number of people taking taxpayer
> money for half the work?
So until the office moves from Moncton it takes 90 employees. But to move
to Cape Briton or Newfoundland it only takes 18 employees. That sounds like
the best arguement ever to move all government jobs to Newfoundland and
Cape Briton.
R. W. Smallwood
Marine Atlantic is shutting down its Moncton NB office with 90 employees to
split those jobs between Port aux Basques Nf&Lb and Cape Briton N.S.
The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld. The 18 jobs
to Sydney will come from Moncton.
Interesting math. 90 Moncton jobs turn into 18 jobs in NS. Newfoundland
gets 18 jobs redeployed from St. John's to Port aux Basques. By my count
that comes to Zero jobs moved to Nf&Lb, 18 jobs moved to NS, and 72 jobs
reassigned, hidden, and in neither NS nor Nf&Lb.
Those high paid Canada bureaucrats vowed never to move to Newfoundland.
They share Wally's contempt for living amongst Newfoundlanders. Well it now
appears to be a Canadian's right not to live in Newfoundland when their
whole career is centered on regulating Newfoundland.
This open contempt of Newfoundland by those who directly regulate us is
Piotr Trela
: <6gmmbs$v7m$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...: > : Marine Atlantic is shutting down its Moncton NB office with
: > : and Cape Briton N.S.
: > : The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld.
: > : The 18 jobs to Cape Breton will come from Moncton.
: > : Interesting math. 90 Moncton jobs turn into 18 jobs in NS.
: > : Newfoundland gets 18 jobs redeployed from St. John's to Port aux > :
: Basques.
: > : By my count that comes to Zero jobs moved to Nf&Lb,
: > : 18 jobs moved to NS,
: > : and 72 jobs reassigned, hidden, and in neither NS nor Nf&Lb.
C'mon Robert, we've got used to you twisting other people's postings,
but now you OPENLY FALSIFY to make your point?!!! I never sent a message
like this you cite - you doctored it, changing the line in which
I cite your original posting opening this thread in which you wrote:
>: > : The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld.
>: > : The 18 jobs to Port aux Basques will come from Moncton.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I even underlined this part in my response, because I knew , well ,
because I knew you. I assumed that Moncton is not an old Newfoundland
city so I wrote:
: > The interesting math aside (18 = 0 - Robert can you fit it to a curve
: > using Basic - I'd bet those engineers and Ph.D.'s can't) -
By now you realized your mistake, so you ... "corrected" your original
line and .... proceeded to blast me. Beauty.
There is only one problem - your first posting in the thread and my
answer are still there for people to see - unless you delete them
they will remain as a proof of your intellectual integrity. And if you
delete them, I saved them, so I can repost them time to time ...
Piotr
-------------
: 1) Both St. John's and Port aux Basques are in Newfoundland. Piotr must
: know that St. John's is in Newfoundland, because he lives in St. John's.
: 2) When I say there are ZERO (0) jobs being moved to Newfoundland I mean
: just that. To move jobs from St. John's to Port aux Basques does not move
--
--------------------
Piotr Trela
ptrela @ morgan.ucs.mun.ca
Piotr Trela
Dear Robert, are you aware that your original posting from April 10th,
which started this thread, has disappeared, at least on some servers?
And, instead, another article appeared on April 11th, identical in all
details, except one line:
the line from your April 10th posting:
>> The 18 jobs to Port aux Basques will come from Moncton.
changed in the April 11th posting into:
:> The 18 jobs to Sydney will come from Moncton.
Incidentally, a similar modification happened to my earlier posting, in
which I cited the same your April 10th line. In your reply to this
posting, you included my citation but now it had the April 11th line
instead! As a result of this "modification" my argument lost its sense,
which you did not forget to exploit in the rest of your reply.
If this recent replacement (of your initial posting from April 10th with
a doctored version from April 11th) is an attempt to cover tracks of this
earlier forgery, well, it ain't looking good. After all, how could I cite
your April 11th line (posted at 16:02) in my postings which was sent on
April 11th at 0:30???
[ Then again, I might have used a bagel-propelled time-travel machine...]
If you are not behind this miraculous modifications, then somebody
substitutes your postings with fakes, creating appearance of a cover-up,
and trying to make you look stupid in the process. In such a case I urge
you to complain to your Internet provider - forgery is a serious breach of
netiquette. I am sure they willbe happy to investigate.
To make your complaint easier, I include below your original
of the April 10th article (just in case if you deleted your own copy... ;-))
Yours truly concerned Piotr Trela
---------- The original Robert Smallwood's posting from April 10th (with
headers included) -----------
From coranto.ucs.mun.ca!news.dal.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!Supernews73!supernews.
com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Sat Apr 11 16:10:04 1998
Path: coranto.ucs.mun.ca!news.dal.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!Supernews73!supernews.
com!Supernews69!not-for-mail
From: "R. W. Smallwood" <inc...@avint.net>
Newsgroups: nf.general,ns.general
Subject: Atlantic Marine
Date: 10 Apr 1998 02:48:15 GMT
Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <01bd641f$afc79ba0$LocalHost@default>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 11...@198.165.75.173
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161
Xref: coranto.ucs.mun.ca nf.general:16001 ns.general:5666
Marine Atlantic is shutting down its Moncton NB office with 90 employees to
split those jobs between Port aux Basques Nf&Lb and Cape Briton N.S.
The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld. The 18 jobs
to Port aux Basques will come from Moncton.
Interesting math. 90 Moncton jobs turn into 18 jobs in NS. Newfoundland
gets 18 jobs redeployed from St. John's to Port aux Basques. By my count
that comes to Zero jobs moved to Nf&Lb, 18 jobs moved to NS, and 72 jobs
reassigned, hidden, and in neither NS nor Nf&Lb.
Those high paid Canada bureaucrats vowed never to move to Newfoundland.
They share Wally's contempt for living amongst Newfoundlanders. Well it now
appears to be a Canadian's right not to live in Newfoundland when their
whole career is centered on regulating Newfoundland.
This open contempt of Newfoundland by those who directly regulate us is
accepted and fostered by Canada. Of the 90 jobs supporting ferry service in
Atlantic Canada, none would move to Newfoundland. Newfoundland has the ONLY
vital ferry links in Atlantic Canada. Newfoundlands South Coast, the
Northern Peninsula's East Coast and Labrador Coast all depend on ferry
service for vital supplies. The 1949 BNA Act requires the maintenance of
Newfoundland Steamship Lines.
In Canada, Newfoundland is a leper. The Constitution fails to defend
Newfoundland's rights. We do not have to take this abuse. We have more
resources per person than anywhere else on earth. Canada is counting on our
resources to pull their economy. The time has come to cut the Canadian
albatross adrift.
http://www.avalon.nf.ca/~incaoil/respgovt.htm
--------------- end of posting ---------------
R. W. Smallwood
The following deals with Dr. Piotr Trela trying to blunt the obvious snub
Canada bureaucrats gave Newfoundland, as unfit for Canadian bureaucrats to
live in, by playing childish games with words. Dr. Trela alone
misinterpreted my original post, and read my words out of context. In my
reply I restored the MEANING of my words by changing the MARINE ATLANTIC's
version (which Pitrela presented as my version) by replacing my misquoted
words "Port aux Basques" with "Sydney".
By bogging the discussion down in contrived misinterpretations of MEANING
by changing context, Dr. Trela hopes to difuse the truth. I replied by
changing MY WORDS to restore their original meaning.
Trela's reverse logic actually had Dr. Trela disputing my claim that ZERO
(0) jobs were coming from Moncton to Port aux Basques. Dr. Trela your
twisting of meaning is not fooling anyone because:
Everyone knows the 18 Marine Atlantic jobs to Port aux Basques are coming
from ONLY St.John's.
Everyone knows that all jobs moving from Moncton are going to Sydney, Cape
Breton.
Everyone knows the difference between some else taking a Newfoundland job
and a job not moving to Newfoundland.
PT> By now you realized your mistake, so you ... "corrected" your
PT> original line and .... proceeded to blast me. Beauty.
Everyone else followed my original post.
After your deliberate misinterpretation of the position I restored the
meaning of my text by changing my words. My meaning is what is important,
not my words you contrived to confuse out of context.
To support this simple reality I quote a Nova Scotian who (after being
conditioned by NS media to believe that another 18 Moncton jobs were going
to Port aux Basques) easily understood my original post:
From: jw...@istar.ca (Joe Whye)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:26:59 GMT
RS>
RS>Interesting math. 90 Moncton jobs turn into 18 jobs in NS. Newfoundland
RS>gets 18 jobs redeployed from St. John's to Port aux Basques. By my count
RS>that comes to Zero jobs moved to Nf&Lb, 18 jobs moved to NS, and 72 jobs
RS>reassigned, hidden, and in neither NS nor Nf&Lb.
RS>
That's what my math tells me too .
This is not the math the N.S. media coverage of this announcement
used either . As I recall we were told that the CN Marine jobs were
split 50/50 with Port Aux Basques .
I don't recall any mention of the fact that the 18 Port Aux Basques
jobs were relocations from St. John's in the N.S. media .
I think what we have here is election math in action again , it is no
coincidence that this announcement from CN Marine was delayed untill
after the N.S. election and it is pretty obvious to Nova Scotians that
Premiere Russell M called in a few favours owing from his many many
years as federal liberal backbencher and got the remaining Moncton
jobs for his own riding .
If CN Marine resources are to be allocated based on greatest need
/ greatest good all the jobs should have gone to Port Aux Basques .
<<<END QUOTE>>>
But how does PhD Dr. Piotr Trela of MUN Physics interpret the Marine
Atlantic news? And what quality of math training are MUN students of
Physics getting?
PT: The interesting math aside (18 = 0 ...
and elsewhere:
PT: 18 + 18 =18. Interesting math indeed. |-)
Yes you PhD, that is exactly what I was saying about Marine Atlantics math!
That the 18 jobs from Moncton to Port aux Basques really = 0!!!
Dr. Trela presented what I obviously meant as Marine-Atlantic's-propoganda
to be my-position! Then Dr. Trela says my math does not add up. Well Dr.
Trela it is obvious that Maritime Atlantic's math did not add up, that is
what my post was all about!!!!
As further exibition of Dr. Trela's lack of comprehension he fails to
reconcile my opposing his taking a Newfoundland job to my opposing jobs not
coming to Newfoundland.
Let me explain:
1) New jobs in Newfoundland are good for Newfoundland.
2) Newfoundland jobs taken by outsiders deprive NfLbers of employment.
It further hurts Newfoundland to have MUN professors who lack logic,
judgement, comprehension, math, AND who assail Newfoundlanders' character,
call Jews anti-Semitic, support greenpeace forging Newfoundlanders' names
onto protest mail to Parliament, support censoring opponents of greenpeace,
and who claim Newfoundlanders deny their souls for fishing.
With my friend Dr. Trela's interpretation, I am sure he will take the above
as a compliment.
Is there anyone in NfLb. (outside of Dr. Piotr Trela and John Jenkins Sr.)
who does not realise that the 18 jobs moving to Port aux Basques are coming
from St. John's and not Moncton?
R. W. Smallwood
What is relevant is the topics Dr. Trela disrupts. Dr. Trela, is disrupting
the discussion about zero of 90 jobs coming from Moncton to Newfoundland.
The lack of government jobs in Newfoundland is a primary cause of poverty
in Newfoundland. Government spending represents 40% of Canada's GDP.
Therefor we need to highlight why Canada refuses to send jobs to NfLb.
Piotr Trela <ptr...@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> wrote in article
<6grfft$lns$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...
> Dear Robert, are you aware that your original posting from April 10th,
> which started this thread, has disappeared, at least on some servers?
> And, instead, another article appeared on April 11th, identical in all
> details, except one line:
>
> the line from your April 10th posting:
> >> The 18 jobs to Port aux Basques will come from Moncton.
>
> changed in the April 11th posting into:
> :> The 18 jobs to Sydney will come from Moncton.
The original post was stating the Marine Atlantic position, which the rest
of the post was then attacking. Everyone knew and recognized it was Marine
Atlantic's position. That is why Joe Whye of Nova Scotia was the FIRST to
reply to the post and understood it completely.
But Dr. Piotr Trela needs it spelt out that the opening lines were a
restatement of the public news propogated by Marine Atlantic. Everyone else
comprehended the original post correctly.
With Dr. Piotr Trela's confusing the meaning of the original post, I took
the necessary action to restore clear meaning to the post. I have not
changed the meaning of the post. Rather I had to strengthen the original
post against Dr. Trelas contrived misinterpretation of it.
Dr. Trela is only trying to bog down sensible debate on important issues
effecting NfLb by misinterpreting any post that is not bullet proof. As
such Dr. Trela is destructive to the discourse of ideas.
No doubt every sentence ever written can be misinterpreted. It does not
help conversation to have an interrupter misinterpreting important issues
just to disrupt discussion.
It is obvious I oppose Marine Atlantic refusing to send jobs to
Newfoundland. It is obvious that Dr. Trela has no contribution on the
issue, rather he is bogging down discourse.
R. W. Smallwood
Rely on John Jenkins Sr. never to take any stand in favour of Newfoundland
when he can jump in with Newfoundland's enemies to attack a Smallwood.
Do_Not_.Bother_@._Me wrote in article
<3533794c...@news.thezone.net>...
> On 11 Apr 1998 18:39:36 GMT, ptr...@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Piotr
> Trela) wrote to All:
> [...]
> >R. W. Smallwood (inc...@avint.net) wrote:
> >: > : The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld.
> >: > : The 18 jobs to Cape Breton will come from Moncton.
> [...]
>
> >C'mon Robert, we've got used to you twisting other people's postings,
> >but now you OPENLY FALSIFY to make your point?!!! I never sent a
message
> >like this you cite - you doctored it, changing the line in which
> >I cite your original posting opening this thread in which you wrote:
> >
> >>: > : The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld.
> >>: > : The 18 jobs to Port aux Basques will come from Moncton.
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> >I even underlined this part in my response, because I knew , well ,
> >because I knew you. I assumed that Moncton is not an old Newfoundland
> >city so I wrote:
>
> Piotr is correct. And by misquoting him, Smallwood is doing
> exactly that of which he often wrongly accuses others. It's
> actually far worse to alter what you claim to have been
> posted by another user, than to quote their words out of
> context. The former is an outright lie, while the latter is
> at least a true, if incomplete, quote. Here's that part of
> Smallwood's original post:
>
>
> >>>From: "R. W. Smallwood" <inc...@avint.net>
> >>>Newsgroups: nf.general,ns.general
> >>>Subject: Atlantic Marine
> >>>Date: 10 Apr 1998 02:48:15 GMT
> >>>Message-ID: <01bd641f$afc79ba0$LocalHost@default>
> >>>NNTP-Posting-Host: 11...@198.165.75.173
> [...]
> >>>The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld.
> >>> The 18 jobs to Port aux Basques will come from Moncton.
>
> I too noticed this at the time it was posted, but deemed it
> typical of Robert's 'interesting' math, and therefore hardly
> worth comment. However, the outright forgery done later IS
> worth pointing out.
>
> >: > The interesting math aside (18 = 0 - Robert can you fit it to a
curve
> >: > using Basic - I'd bet those engineers and Ph.D.'s can't) -
>
> Ye'd be amazed what can be done with good ole Basic! I once
> wrote a Basic program for baking Kümmel, but the caraway
> seeds jammed up my keyboard...A terrible disaster!
>
> >By now you realized your mistake, so you ... "corrected" your original
> >line and .... proceeded to blast me. Beauty.
>
> A little 'sneaky', to say the least.
>
> >There is only one problem - your first posting in the thread and my
> >answer are still there for people to see - unless you delete them
> >they will remain as a proof of your intellectual integrity. And if you
> >delete them, I saved them, so I can repost them time to time ...
>
> They're all available on Dejanews, Piotr. Everything Robert
> ever posted is still archived there, under the names of his
> previous provider, and of his various 'companies'.
> Fortunately, they're not required by anyone who reads him
> regularly, as we're all so aware of the absolute and
> unquestionable correctness of everything he writes, that we
> accept his statements without question. :)
>
> I still believe Robert has been playing rather ineptly with
> anonymity. I received the E-Card from 'novocoincaoil' and
> posted it here. A few days later Robert claimed also to have
> received a similar one. I believe that this was an attempt
> on his part to obfuscate the truth of what he'd done. The
> card was actually sent through the facilities of Anonymizer
> Inc., at http://sol.infonex.com/
> --
> Cheers, JJ Sr. - dad...@thezone.net
1) Does JJ believe I ever meant to support Marine Atlantic's math?
2) Why then is it sneaky to revise my misinterpreted words against
confusion mustering by Dr. Trela?
Maybe JJ preferres to confuse the issues over maintaining the clarity of
the original posts meaning.
With contrived misinterpretation by Trela, I clarify, and JJ and Trela
complain. They cannot come out and say they oppose jobs for
Newfoundlanders, because that would discredit them. So instead, they attack
anyone supporting jobs for Newfoundland on irrelevant grounds, in this case
not writting the original post with every thought predefined.
R. W. Smallwood
Joe Whye <jw...@istar.ca> wrote in article
<352e204c...@news.istar.ca>...
> >
> This is not the math the N.S. media coverage of this announcement
> used either . As I recall we were told that the CN Marine jobs were
> split 50/50 with Port Aux Basques .
> I don't recall any mention of the fact that the 18 Port Aux Basques
> jobs were relocations from St. John's in the N.S. media .
> I think what we have here is election math in action again , it is no
> coincidence that this announcement from CN Marine was delayed untill
> after the N.S. election and it is pretty obvious to Nova Scotians that
>
> Premiere Russell M called in a few favours owing from his many many
> years as federal liberal backbencher and got the remaining Moncton
> jobs for his own riding .
> If CN Marine resources are to be allocated based on greatest need
> / greatest good all the jobs should have gone to Port Aux Basques .
>
> >
> >accepted and fostered by Canada.
>
> Much of the disrespect shown to Atlantic Canada comes more from
> ignorance than malice .
>
> It is up to Atlantic Canadians to take control of our own economic
> destiny . I feel if Atlantic Canadians showed a little more political
> solidarity with one another instead of playing the games of rivalry
> that serve those who would divide , weaken and marginalize us then
> we would have some hope of altering the crippling federal
> paternalistic imperialistic policies directed against our region .
I would like to thank Joe Whye for honestly interpreting my post. While
some Canadians choose to misread it to distract from the Canadian
Government's diliberate contempt of NfLb, it is obvious that we have
friends in Nova Scotia.
My original post may have also been misinterpreted as pitting NfLb against
Nova Scotia. That was also not my intent. Rather there is a ranking of
acceptability of areas by Canada. Newfoundland is near the bottom in
Canada. For economics we are the bottom, Newfoundland alone has a declining
population as we are repressed from into refugee status from our homeland
to seek meager wages in Canada. Cape Breton is also ranked extremely low by
Canada. So of 90 acceptable positions for Moncton, Sydney only qualified
for 18, and Port aux Basques 0.
This issue goes much further than these few jobs. Why are there ANY
offshore fishery jobs in Ottawa at all? With government spending = 40% of
Canada's GDP it is obvious that the location of federal jobs and spending
determines who is prosperous, and who is poor. There are many more ways
that Canada descriminates against Newfoundland, but for this post I wish to
highlight how:
1) Canada refused to move any ferry service jobs to Newfoundland and how
2) every Moncton Marine Atlantic employee threated to quit rather than to
move to Newfoundland.
ta...@hotmail.com
In article <01bd675c$5b339040$LocalHost@default>,
"R. W. Smallwood" <inc...@avint.net> wrote:
[...]
> Maybe JJ preferres to confuse the issues over maintaining the clarity of
> the original posts meaning.
Clarity?
> With contrived misinterpretation by Trela, I clarify, and JJ and Trela
> complain.
So now altering a quote from a previous post is "clarifying"?
I think that clarification would be more like admitting you'd
made a mistake, and then putting forward what you'd really
intended to say?
> They cannot come out and say they oppose jobs for
> Newfoundlanders, because that would discredit them.
Wrong, as usual. For example, I don't say that I "oppose
jobs for Newfoundlanders" because I'd be lying. Your
statement is just another of your flakey delusions.
>So instead, they attack anyone supporting jobs for
>Newfoundland on irrelevant grounds, in this case
>not writting the original post with every thought
>predefined.
Try posting what you mean, instead of what we are
supposed to think you mean. Even better, try posting
ungarbled facts. I will never attack anyone who promotes
Newfoundland in a rational manner. Try it, and you'll
find that I'm telling the truth.
--
Taz
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Piotr Trela
: Canada bureaucrats gave Newfoundland, as unfit for Canadian bureaucrats to
: live in, by playing childish games with words. Dr. Trela alone
: misinterpreted my original post, and read my words out of context. In my
: reply I restored the MEANING of my words by changing the MARINE ATLANTIC's
: version (which Pitrela presented as my version) by replacing my misquoted
: words "Port aux Basques" with "Sydney".
I am not sure what that Pitrela "presented as your version"
(I've never met him/her, you know). Piotr Trela, on the other hand,
CITED YOUR OWN letter from April 10th.
I am not sure whether you deny that you posted this April 10th
letter at all, or you argue that it is acceptable to cite other
people's postings, with (unmarked) retro-active changes.
If the first, anybody can check it by him/herself. To make it easier
I include the copy of your April 10th posting, with the headers, at the
end of my posting.
If the second, let me try to explain, why what you did is wrong.
You made an honest mistake, writing "Port aux Basques" instead of "Sydney"
(as a destination of 18 jobs transferred from Moncton). Since you later
say that Newfoundland will gain 0 jobs from the transfer, this makes your
math somewhat original (18=0).
Still, I would let your error pass, as I have done with hundreds of your
errors in the past (not to mention strange titles you give to threads), if
not for your sarcastic comment: "Interesting math" (with respect to people
from Marine Atlantic). If you are sarcastic about other people's math,
you be sure that your own math is beyond reproach (and with your mistake
it evidently wasn't!).
Now, if you made an error, and nobody has answered your article
containing mistakes, it's OK to delete it and post the corrected
version.
However, you had noticed the error ONLY AFTER my reply, in which
I cited your original letter and, for your convenience, underlined
the sentence containing the mistake. In this situation, all is left to
an honest person is to say is: "Sorry, I made a mistake, I meant:
"Sydney", not "Port aux Basques". Thanks for pointing this out".
What do YOU do? You reply to my post and REPLACE my citation of
your original posting "Port aux Basques" with "Sydney".
NO WARNING indicating THAT YOU MADE THE ALTERATION (or "restored the
meaning" if you will) IS INCLUDED IN YOUR POST!
Therefore, anybody who reads your letter may think that "SYDNEY" has
been in your original letter from the beginning and the obvious
conclusion is that my math stinks. To make sure that the point
is taken, you keep attacking my math in the rest of your posting
("This is so stunned a math error that I find it hard to believe
that even Piotr Trela made it").
I reply, pointing out your forgery. What do YOU do? You delete your
original letter from April 10 and post an almost identical one (on April
11th) with the line in question "restored" to "Sydney".
As a result, this relatively recent thread (i.e. not affected by expiry
date on many servers) does not have the original posting - all postings
are marked as followups (i.e. "Re: Atlantic Marine").
Retro-active "restoring the meaning" of your earlier postings
INSIDE other people's postings is a FORGERY! Honest people do not forge.
Hope this helps
Piotr Trela
--------- Robert Smallwood's original posting opening this thread:-------
From coranto.ucs.mun.ca!news.dal.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Sat Apr 11 16:10:04 1998
Path: coranto.ucs.mun.ca!news.dal.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail
From: "R. W. Smallwood" <inc...@avint.net>
Newsgroups: nf.general,ns.general
Subject: Atlantic Marine
Date: 10 Apr 1998 02:48:15 GMT
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Xref: coranto.ucs.mun.ca nf.general:16001 ns.general:5666
Marine Atlantic is shutting down its Moncton NB office with 90 employees to
split those jobs between Port aux Basques Nf&Lb and Cape Briton N.S.
The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld. The 18 jobs
to Port aux Basques will come from Moncton.
Interesting math. 90 Moncton jobs turn into 18 jobs in NS. Newfoundland
gets 18 jobs redeployed from St. John's to Port aux Basques. By my count
that comes to Zero jobs moved to Nf&Lb, 18 jobs moved to NS, and 72 jobs
reassigned, hidden, and in neither NS nor Nf&Lb.
Those high paid Canada bureaucrats vowed never to move to Newfoundland.
They share Wally's contempt for living amongst Newfoundlanders. Well it now
appears to be a Canadian's right not to live in Newfoundland when their
whole career is centered on regulating Newfoundland.
This open contempt of Newfoundland by those who directly regulate us is
R. W. Smallwood
Has Piotr Trela figured out what this issue is about yet? Who knows, he
seeks to ignore the Canadian Government practice of keeping jobs out of
NfLb and to bog discussion down by contending I may not rewrite to clarify
my position.
Piotr Trela <ptr...@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> wrote in article
<6h0g4o$nrp$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...
> R. W. Smallwood (inc...@avint.net) wrote:
> Piotr Trela, on the other hand,
> CITED YOUR OWN letter from April 10th.
>
> If the second, let me try to explain, why what you did is wrong.
>
> You made an honest mistake, writing "Port aux Basques" instead of
"Sydney"
> (as a destination of 18 jobs transferred from Moncton). Since you later
> say that Newfoundland will gain 0 jobs from the transfer, this makes your
> math somewhat original (18=0).
I never made any such mistake.
I started the message by presenting Marine Atlantics version.
BUT
Piotr Trela then attacked the Marine Atlantic version as my words.
I attacked the "funny math" Marine Atlantic used, saying that 18 jobs were
moving from Moncton to Port aux Basques.
BUT
Piotr Trela said I supported the math I was criticizing.
There was no confussion amongst Nova Scotians about what I was writing.
They never had the benefit of the local news blitz on the subject, but were
propogandized to think along Marine Atlantic's version. How they quickly
understood what I was saying and Dr. Piotr Trela PhD with all the local
news coverage analysing this issue could not follow common english defies
belief.
It is obvious that you are either incredibly daft, or you play at being
daft on nf.general. I suspect you choose to be daft in order to bog down
the deliberate snub Marine Atlantic gave to Newfoundland.
Again there is no error on my part in reporting this matter. But to spell
it out for you in case you still cannot follow the issue.
1) Marine Atlantic had 90 workers employed in Moncton.
2) Confederation Bridge eliminated the need for any employees in N.B.
3) Every Moncton Marine Atlantic employee threatened to quit rather than
move to Newfoundland (Port aux Basques or St.John's)
4) After the Nova Scotian election, Premier Russell M held his seat.
5) Marine Atlantic declared they were closing their Moncton office and
moving 18 jobs to Sydney, Cape Breton, N.S. and 18 jobs to Port aux
Basques, NfLb.
* * * BUT * * *
6) 16 of the jobs to Port aux Basques are really coming from St. John's.
That is the interesting math! Marine Atlantic lied by implying there would
be an equal sharing of Moncton jobs between NfLb and Nova Scotia! The 18
jobs in NS do not include any jobs already in NS. But 16 of the 18 jobs to
go to NfLb are already in NfLb!
This faked equality was a lie, which I clearly demonstrated.
Piotr Trela then waded in and said the Marine Atlantic version was my
version. Only Piotr Trela read my post that way, and he sought to discredit
my point, and bog this discussion down, with his contrived
misinterpretation of the original post.
I never altered Piotr Trela's words. Rather I revised my words to avoid his
contrived confussion mustering, and to add clarity to what was already
obviously my postion.
Has Piotr Trela figured out what this issue is about yet? Who knows, he
seeks to ignore the Canadian Government practice of keeping jobs out of
NfLb and to bog discussion down by contending I may not rewrite to clarify
my position.
I will clarify my position against Pitrela confussion. The meaning of what
I say is the truth, not the twisting of the meaning by misreading the
words, as Pitrela does.
R. W. Smallwood
dad...@thezone.net wrote in article <6gvsib$45b$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> > With contrived misinterpretation by Trela, I clarify, and JJ and Trela
> > complain.
> So now altering a quote from a previous post is "clarifying"?
> I think that clarification would be more like admitting you'd
> made a mistake, and then putting forward what you'd really
> intended to say?
In my original post I first presented Marine Atlantic's position. Piotr
Trela then qouted those lines OUT OF CONTEXT to purport I was taking Marine
Atlantic position. That is usual for John Jenkins Sr.
With just the Marine Atlantic's position lines showing as my position I had
to alter the words to correctly show my position. That is being consistant
with the meaning of my message, as opposed to using the words to reverse
the meaning.
And why does Dr. Piotr Trela PhD fail to follow my post when people in Nova
Scotia correctly understood what I was saying. I do not accept that Dr.
Trela misread my post to make such a warped interpretation of it. If he
honestly did misread it, then his literary comprehension is inadequate.
Piotr Trela
: seeks to ignore the Canadian Government practice of keeping jobs out of
: NfLb and to bog discussion down by contending I may not rewrite to clarify
: my position.
Rewrite - yes. Rewrite other people's articles when citing them - no.
: Piotr Trela <ptr...@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> wrote in article
: <6h0g4o$nrp$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...
: > If the second, let me try to explain, why what you did is wrong.
: > You made an honest mistake, writing "Port aux Basques" instead
: > of"Sydney"
: > (as a destination of 18 jobs transferred from Moncton). Since you later
: > say that Newfoundland will gain 0 jobs from the transfer, this makes your
: > math somewhat original (18=0).
: I never made any such mistake.
: I started the message by presenting Marine Atlantics version.
: BUT Piotr Trela then attacked the Marine Atlantic version as my words.
Why haven.t you told us earlier?! It wasn't you, it was Marine
Atlantic, all along, right?
So nail them down, give us your source, let us all laugh at their math!
Was it a newspaper article (newspaper name, date, and article title,
please) or was it an official statement from Marine Atlantic (name @ date,
please), in which Marine Atlantic said, in their exact contemptful words:
>The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld. The 18
>jobs to Port aux Basques will come from Moncton.
I am sure that when you produce the source, Marine Atlantic, after initial
embarassement, will be happy to acknowledge their error and correct the
article and/or official release.
Unfortunately, even if these were the exact words of Marine Atlantic,
NOTHING could justify your retro-active changing of my posting in your
citations!
If you find forging acceptable, please start your own group
("nf.smallwood. moderated" ?) in which you, as the only contributor, could
play roles, make "people" say stupid things and then dispatch their stupid
arguments with your characteristic finesse and iron logic.
Piotr Trela
P.S. I asked you for your reference, so it seems only fair to produce my
own reference. Here it is: beginning of your (recently deceased) posting
from April 10th. Sorry, no "meaning restoration" here:
-------------
" From: "R. W. Smallwood" <inc...@avint.net>
Newsgroups: nf.general,ns.general
Subject: Atlantic Marine
Date: 10 Apr 1998 02:48:15 GMT
Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <01bd641f$afc79ba0$LocalHost@default>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 11...@198.165.75.173
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161
Xref: coranto.ucs.mun.ca nf.general:16001 ns.general:5666
Marine Atlantic is shutting down its Moncton NB office with 90 employees
to split those jobs between Port aux Basques Nf&Lb and Cape Briton N.S.
The 18 jobs in Port aux Basques will come from St. John's Nfld. The 18
jobs to Port aux Basques will come from Moncton." [...]
-------------------------------
Joe Whye
As Fotheringham might put it , in order to further fuzzify
the mudification allow me to add this verbatim story taken from the
Halifax Chronicle Herald page A3 , April 17 , 1998 . It shows how Nova
Scotians are being fed this story and contains yet another version of
the mathmatics of musical jobs .
Begin Herald Story
Headline : Ferry protest ' makes no sense '
North Sydney - Newfoundland protests against Marine Atlantic's plan to
divide 31 head-office jobs between North Sydney and Port aux Basques
are splitting the two communities that should be working together ,
says Sydney-Victoria MP Peter Mancini .
" It makes no sense, " the New Democrat MP said from his Sydney
office. " Instead of pitting one section of Atlantic Canada against
another , we should rise above that and work co-operatively so that
the federal government can address the serious inequities in this
country."
On Wednesday , an estimated 500 Port aux Basques residents slowed
traffic and handed out pamphlets as the fery MV Caribou docked at the
Newfoundland port.
The protesters want all 31 jobs for Newfoundland. Marine Atlantic
wants to move 13 administrative positions from Moncton to North Sydney
instead of to Port aux Basques .
Jocelyn Bethune
End Herald Story .
I may have to get out my calculator for this one . < grin >