EMF Food and Beer plan

[Martin Raynsford]

Now is probably a good time to mention some potential issues with selling food and beer. I'm prepared to be corrected on all cases but don't want people to spend money without acknowledging this.

I assume there will be burger vans and proper food vendors on site. They will have hygiene certificates which is probably a lawful requirement when it comes to selling food for money. They'll probably be rather peeved to discover they're being undercut but people who don't confirm to these requirements.

Selling beer for cash without a license is illegal. Not to mention that the bar is one of the few profitable areas at EMF.This profit may well be going to cover some of the expenses for the rest of the weekend should they not sell enough tickets etc, so undercutting the bar is going to annoy the organisers.

On 21 August 2012 08:57, MarkP <markphe...@gmail.com> wrote:

My friend is a butcher who also does catering and has very kindly offered us the following:

150 large burgers

150 sausages

150 burger rolls

150 hot dog rolls

Sack of onions

He's said he can do all this for £135 and I can probably borrow a large cool box from him to store it.

In terms of delivering stuff, I presume things like food are best taken straight to Milton Keynes however I can't get down there until Friday afternoon and only have a ticket for Saturday. The food is coming from Birmingham so if it's needed before then and anyone is able to collect it Thursday night then we can probably arrange that. Unfortunately I'm away in Cirencester all week so can't drop it off.

Let me know if you want to take him up on the offer so he can order the stuff, sounded like a good price to me.

Mark

[James Hayward]

I'll investigate your points about food, but we won't be selling any drinks. I'm fairly sure Dominic was talking about bringing beer for himself!

J

[Martin Raynsford]

Actually James it was you who talked about selling beer

The packing list for EMF updated over the weekend, in "What not to bring" is now:
Beer or wine, we will have plenty and we'll be selling it at better-than-pub prices, with all the profits going towards the next camp 

Everything I found about food suggested that you needed a food hygiene license and we're in trouble if we give someone food poisoning.

I think we're on more solid ground if we're giving it away (ie just cooking for ourselves and any visitors that happen to be in the camp at the right time)

[James Hayward]

No, that was the packing list from the EMF wiki, I was saying we shouldn't take beer!

[Matt Lloyd]

There's a note about food standards on the vendros team page

http://wiki.emfcamp.org/wiki/Team/Vendors

and from the FAQ

http://wiki.emfcamp.org/wiki/FAQ

Will there be food?
We expect that most people will bring their own food. That said, we will try to organise some basic food stalls, and some villages may be offering food as well.
If you're interested in selling food at the camp please get in touch with our Vendors team!

I'm quite happy to buy my beer at emf to support the cause ;)

'RepRap' Matt

[Dominic Morrow]

I've never said anything about selling beer, or even really selling food for that matter. I DO NOT want to have a sign up that says "Sausages £2" or anything like that.... I think that people will get the idea they can have some food if they chip in. Just like in Hackspace. I think it's only fair that a tiny amount of money is made. I am not suggesting anything as formal as the arrangement or expectation you'd have with a vendor. 

I felt it might be a nice idea to have food going and if people want some invite them to contribute to cost... I know that sounds like a sneaky but to be honest I don't want to get ALL my food and ALL my drink from the site vendors. I'll be taking a supply of beer for myself (I'll still buy beer on site) which will be £3 a pint I am certain. Food from vendors, sure... but TBH it'll be expensive and I'd rather make village food... for which we all need to club in for anyway. 

I'll ask Jonty what he thinks about it. 

Dominic

[Martin Raynsford]

I had no intention of buying all my food and drink from the site vendors but I think the hackspace plans have got confused somewhere between buying and selling burgers to attendees and chipping in to buy food for ourselves. The wiki suggests we need £300 of food and that we should be selling it for £2 a time. I feel like I missing parts of the conversation but all I have to work with it's what's written down, I asked for more detail about all our plans yesterday but all I got was confirmation that the things I thought were happening were correct.

We're told the space has no money and will not be contributing especially because it's only a fraction of members going which means that this £300 is coming from us? and now we're told about the food  "for which we all need to club in for anyway"

I suggest we keep it simple, we come up with an actual plan then we ask people questions about that plan. It's 10 days to go, let's decide what we want to do and ditch the half baked plans.

From my previous discussion I was under the impression that people would be invited to join group food, chipping in £10 or so. Somebody would take a trip to the butchers and come back with food for those people. We'd all eat well and anything extra would be left open for people to donate with. So budget is set by the number of people who want to partake.

This system also works with alcohol, but is much more complicated because of the varieties.

The price per pint is currently set at £3.10 (according to the emf budget spreadsheet).

[Dominic Morrow]

How is £3.10 cheaper than pub prices? That's IS pub prices... unless you live in London lol.. Martin are you offering to take charge? I do think we need a co-ordinator and I feel you just volunteered for the job! He He! 

Dominic

[Jake Howe]

I think I would tend to side with Martin, I would much rather we all chipped in some money for food for our village, than try and specifically sell food to everyone else?

Even if the hackspace buys the food, and we buy it off the hackspace as we eat it.

Jake

[James Hayward]

Ok, let's expend on this scenario for a bit. How much food do we need, what would we like? Are we just going todo bbq? I'm happy with that, as I love bbq!

This might mean a change to our layout plan though.

So, we have around 10 people attending EMF, for 2 breakfasts, 3 lunches and 3 dinners, plus something cold for Monday morning.

So, in my head, going for ease of buying/cooking:

20 breakfasts = 40 sausage + 40 bacon + beans, tomatoes, bread
30 lunches = 30-60 burgers + buns and salad
30 dinners = more burgers? Something a bit fancier? Minted lamb steaks maybe?
Monday = big tray of croissants.

We'll also need washing up liquid, tea towels, etc, but we'll worry about that later!

[Dominic Morrow]

Sounds good to me

[Jake Howe]

Pork burgers could be an option for dinners? Or if you wanted something fancier you could get chicken strips to cook and have in fajitas? Not that I don't love the idea of a bacon sausage sandwich every morning, but is it worth having some cereal for breakfasts?

I guess for the most part that kind of thing people will just buy themselves. So the only real concern is there being room in the fridge for a few flagons of milk.

Jake

[Kate Bolin]

http://wiki.nottinghack.org.uk/wiki/EMF_Camp_Food_Shopping_List

Quantities and prices to be added.

--
Kate Bolin
www.katebolin.com

[James Hayward]

I'll be bringing a small camping fridge, I could bring two if we have a gas bottle, as the second one has broken electrics.

[MarkP]

I can't update the wiki as I don't have an account (can anyone here sort that out for me?) but I can also source marinated chicken, pork burgers, bacon, etc, etc.

I'll get prices for the list - do we know roughly how many people this is for and I'll get him to work out suitable quantities of each.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Martin Raynsford]

I've chipped in a few times but never organised so mostly I just gave someone £10 who knew a friendly butcher. As far as I understand it though it was always much more lucky dip. Butchers know what they are doing and what's a good deal and we don't have to worry about getting x sausages.

Are you going to be there by lunchtime on Friday? maybe

Are you going to be set up and in a position to cook before people are hungry? probably not 

Some people won't be there till Friday night anyway. It's also Friday to Sunday and people will be going home Sunday night (with some people staying over)

So for meals you're probably looking at Fri tea, Sat Lunch and tea and Sunday lunch Sunday tea. Some bacon for breakfast.

Going beyond meat complicates things because everybody wants something different, (we used to do it and we stopped for good reason)

So the question is who wants meat and is willing to chip in £10 (If people think that is low now is the time to speak up) for the meals mentioned above. Then we go a friendly butcher and we say we want meat for 5 meals on a camping weekend and we have £50 for 5 peoples and we take what we get which will all be yummy and definitely contain burgers and sausages. Hold a few pounds back per person for buns/cheese/ketchup. And then people can bring their own snacks for in between cooking times.

I'll do it like that if people want me to or Mark has the good butcher friend which will be helpful but at this stage the question is who is in?

[James Hayward]

I'm in, think it should be more like 15 quid though.

if we're just talking about us now, then we'll be there Sunday, as most people are in either mine, Dominic's or Andrew's vehicles, and we'll be there until Monday! I agree about Friday lunchtime though.

J

[James Hayward]

Mark, I emailed you off list yesterday about your wiki account.

[Martin Raynsford]

£15- 6 meals. I'm in.

[Martin Raynsford]

6 meals + 3 bacon breakfasts

[Dominic Morrow]

I just spoke to Jonty. Obviously as Martin said we can't sell food (see I've made an official ask now so we're stuffed) we can't sell food without a hygiene certificate as Martin said. 

Jonty also said we can't have a fire pit... but I think he thinks I mean a pit of fire... so I'm telling him it's not that it's a holder thing. 

I'm in for £15 of fooding! Awesome. 

Dominic 

[MarkP]

On Tuesday, 21 August 2012 11:54:34 UTC+1, James Hayward wrote:

Mark, I emailed you off list yesterday about your wiki account.

Cheers James, will check spam filter when I get home.

Looking like it'll work out to £5/day then for food which should more than cover it. The burgers/sausages I've sourced works out to 45p per serving with a bread roll. - I'm up for getting down early and having some breakfast on Saturday morning and stopping for the day to have something in the evening too. Happy to run the BBQ and can bring a portable 2-hob gas stove if anyone wants to cook beans/eggs on Saturday morning as I was planning to head down early. Bacon/Sausage rolls are probably the easiest things to serve up for breakfasts. 

Shall we aim to cater for around 50 people per day and see how the costs work out? If we run out then there's always food available on-site.

[jfowkes]

I'm happy to pay £5 per day for food all weekend. That seems absurdly cheap really!

[Martin Raynsford]

James:

A good dose of meat per meal, with accompanying buns to hold hot meat products, for most of us this constitutes a full meal anyway but don't forget to bring anything else you fancy.

Mark:

We've got 4 people signed up for meat and 12-13 people going in total, catering for 50 might be a bit excessive. Bacon and Sausage in the morning, what a good idea. James has a decent sized BBQ which we'll use for all the cooking, but people to cook will always be welcome. Bring your hob if you want eggs and beans.

Everyone:

Remember we're running a hackspace not a burger van, we can look into doing that next year.

[James Hayward]

Hi Charles!

So what sort of price will you be selling burgers at, for example? Just so we can get an idea.

This puts the final nail in the coffin of anything but our own food I think.

J

On Aug 21, 2012 1:00 PM, "Charles Yarnold" <charles...@gmail.com> wrote:

A wild Charles appears!

Hello all,

To let you know what is going on with food at the camp. We had food vendors that pulled out due to being dicks. Since then Clare and I from the vendors team have been setting up getting a catering van to the site to sell food from. While this isn't strictly EMF run due to boring reasons we arn't looking to run a profit from it. But we are looking to run it fully, with getting the relevant licences and certificates. We will be selling as close to cost price as we can.

By all means go ahead with what your planning, but with attendance being the level it is it would likely cause us to be unable to make ends meet without raising prices.

All the best,

SOl

[Matt Lloyd]

I'm in for £15 food 

'RepRap' Matt

Sent from my iPhone 4

[Dominic Morrow]

Seriously... I'm fat... I'll eat anything... I'm good for £15 off our food and more off of Auntie Claire and Uncle Charles.

[Wendy]

I just need to know whether the burgers and sausages are gluten free, as im wheat free, so have to be careful of the amounts i consume... if all is good then im in but no cobs thanks :)

[MarkP]

On Tuesday, 21 August 2012 16:11:08 UTC+1, Wendy wrote:

I just need to know whether the burgers and sausages are gluten free, as im wheat free, so have to be careful of the amounts i consume... if all is good then im in but no cobs thanks :)

Wendy, they probably won't be - I can ask the question though. If we go for some chicken, pork or steaks then you'll probably be safe.
If you have allergies to things like wheat then it may be safer to bring your own and we can pop them on the BBQ.

[Wendy]

thanks Mark... im intolerant to gluten/wheat, so a little is ok and i don't have a massive reaction so anything else except burgers, sausages and bread, im fine with, but its up to you guys what you want and i can bring my own no problem rather than messing up what you have already discussed thanks :).

[Martin Raynsford]

Mark:

Because you're not coming down till Saturday and your butcher friend is in Birmingham, it's going to be a easier if we use James butcher. 

Wendy:

Again, we're pretty sure that butchers burgers and sausages aren't likely to be bulked with gluten badness but James is going to check for you, there will be a selection of meats though as we're not just overdosing on burgers and sausages any more so even if you can't have the sausages there will be enough to keep you fed.

James has agreed to sort out the meat, apparently he's keen on good meat and already deals with his local butcher so sounds good to me. He'll need final numbers by the end of the week and currently I have 5 people on my list (Me, James H, Dominic, James F and Matt L) so we'll definitely be in for a good feast now.

Martin

[Gent]

that sound all good to me thanks...

and does any one like Skittles Vodka, as i could make some to bring? :) 

[Kate Bolin]

I'm in too. And I'll bring a few cans of pineapple to grill as well, because nom.

---
Sent via robot monkey butlers. Or a mobile phone. Whichever is more plausible.

[Dominic Morrow]

Add Gillian too please sorry Gill for speaking for you 

Sent from my iPhone

[Dominic Morrow]

Can you give us an idea of prices Charles? 

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Aug 2012, at 01:36, Charles Yarnold <charles...@gmail.com> wrote:

HI James,

We are trying to nail down the costs at the moment, it obviously with the cost of setting up a food health and safety approved kitchen adds onto the cost of getting bulk meat to put on a BBQ, but we are keeping it as low as the figures will let us. Those fixed costs need to be spread out over the numbers of meals we hope to sell.

If you fancy popping over we can promise fresh tasty breakfasts, some top quality meat and veg from a local butcher, hot jacket potatoes and different "home cooked" meals every night, from pasta to pies :)

What ever you eat I look forward to seeing you lot next week :D

Charles

[Wendy]

Who do i give the food money too  and when will you be around? :) thanks

[James Hayward]

Me, and next weds.

[James Hayward]

The food shopping list is now updated:

http://wiki.nottinghack.org.uk/wiki/EMF_Camp_2012_Food

This is an ideal.  My priorities for food are:

Meat
Bread
Cheese
Everything else

J

[Martin Raynsford]

Awesome, that kind of dinner card could be sold to other attendees for £30 for the weekend and I assume we'd be negating some of the hygiene certificate issues if they chipped in like that.

[Martin Raynsford]

Of course what I mean to say is that we up the value of the meals to £30, we let anyone who can read this join in and we subsidise the cost for nottinghack members. But only worth considering for next year.

[Kate Bolin]

Oooh ooh, if you get cereal multipacks, can you do your shopping at Lidl?

Their multipacks have knock-off Froot Loops *and* Cinnamon Toast Crunch in there. Which is amaaaazing.

--
Kate Bolin
www.katebolin.com

[Gent]

thats looks awesome James... you done this before?

I'm not used to eating that well lol :)

[James Hayward]

No, I just like food!

[Gent]

nowt wrong with that :) lol

I added to the wiki what i will bring from home

[James Hayward]

awesome, please bring the cutting boards, saves me from making them!

J

[Gent]

will do no probs :)