An interesting idea...

[James Hayward]

As many of you know, I like to lurk on many other Hackspace lists and steal their best ideas - this is where the "Cost of Hacking" site came from!

On the London list recently, they are starting an adopt-a-spanner scheme, where members each take responsibility for one tool/item in the space.  That member regularly checks the tool to make sure it is there and usable, and if not takes the appropriate action to sort out the problem (they don't spend their own money, but the problem is noticed, raised and fixed!)

At the moment in our space there are a few people that look after pretty much everything, but they get very little time to hack their own projects!

What do people think about stealing London's idea and implementing something similar here??

J

[Kai Pays]

Sounds like a good idea :-)
I would be up for doing something like that, I don't get to the space as often as I would like but ill have a go :-)

[Dominic Morrow]

It could work but I'm a little skeptical to be honest. I'd prefer to have a couple of good custodians, than lots of forgetful unengaged "i was too busy that month" ones. 

The space tends to conform to the 80/20 rule 80% of the members who don't get in as often as they would like are effectively subsidising the use of the other 20% who use the space at least weekly. 

Of those who use the space at least weekly I'd say only 20% of them could be expected to properly look out for tools (this isn't meant as a criticism) in anything like a reliable and consistent way. I'd personally like to encourage more David Clarks. I'd like an army of them to look after everything including improving the craft area, kitchens and so on.

tl:dr yes if it can be done well but I'm skeptical 

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[Martin Raynsford]

I also saw it come up on the London group and thought it was an interesting idea. I was going to wait and see if it worked out for them first though. Given the lack of response on the both groups (and I know that at least 2 people didn't even realise there was a Hackoween social on Saturday) I think you'll struggle to get this message out to a large percentage of the hackspace membership so you're just going to end up with half a dozen people doing large chunks of the work anyway.

[Adrian Godwin]

I don't know if it will work either (and I promoted it), but at the
moment the people who fix things are swamped, not merely by the jobs
that need doing but by even knowing what's broken or misplaced. The
chances of being able to find what you need to do a job are worryingly
small.

The hope is that 'many hands' will at least help us keep track of when
things break (which doesn't need highly skilled people), and that some
of those helpers will put more into it and do repairs too.

Obviously, there's also a big benefit to be gained by getting people
to feel some ownership of part of the space. I think that's a problem
we have more than you do, due to numbers.

[Jake Howe]

I think we will struggle to get a large portion of the membership to help out.

I do think there are plenty of members who would like to help out, however do not have the focus/instruction of what to do. Yes, they should be empowered, but being told by some of the current people who do a lot what would help is all the push they might need.

I think rather than people having 'specific tools' to look after, each area of the hackspace should have a small group of people.
So, for example, the metal working area might have 3-4 people assigned to look after it, while the wood working might have 5-6 people.
Keeping the studio clean might only have 2-3 people and so on.

This way we avoid having one person making a single tool work 100% while the tool next to it gets no service at all. That persons efforts would be distributed around an area.

If someone can check that the bandsaw is working, then fairly certain they could easily learn to check the sanders, the drills and the saws.

I think different sections of the hackspace already have specific 'custodians' those people just need a few other committed people to show what to do.

Jake

[Adrian Godwin]

You may well be right, and perhaps it will mutate into this arrangement.

At the moment, i'm betting on making a low barrier to entry.

[Martin Raynsford]

This should be fairly self regulating though surely. If you use a tool then you should know how to look after it? If you use the band saw then you should know what to be looking at to make sure it is safe and sound before you start to use it. The last time I used it I was worried that the band was too loose and wobbly and my cuts started to veer at funny angles (a while ago now) and I vowed that I should learn more about it before I attempt to use it again. I still get Dominic to run things through the table saw for me. 

Maintenance should probably be included in an induction for the medium sized tools, then small tools should be manageable for the dozen committed members.

[James Hayward]

We don't have inductions for any of the medium sized tools, and I doubt we ever will!

I have no idea what to look at with the band saw, but I'll still use it quite happily. That's probably not the right thing to do, but I expect a lot of members do the same thing.
I'd be all up for mutating this into teams per area, but we can't go around assigning people! I agreed with Adrian though - looking after one tool is a fairly low entry barrier, and as the rules of the game on London wiki says, you have to check it every week , this could mean teaming up with someone if you don't visit the space every week.

J

[Adrian Godwin]

Martin, please move to london immediately. We need more people like
that. A lot more.

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Martin Raynsford

[Dominic Morrow]

8, there are 8 trustees on the board but they all already do a lot and will probably continue to do a lot. They too are paying members and get no privileges from being a board member other than some weight in steering the direction of purchases and decision making.

 

I love the idea of people adopting a tool but I fear that we’ll see one tool well maintained whilst another isn’t so well maintained at all or even neglected. We’ve got members who are both very good at and very happy to (ok this is a bit of an assumption) look after tools. I for instance like to have vision and make things happen or organise the dynamics of the space. I do like to make things very occasionally and I do that if I want to. I don’t think we’re trying to cure a problem we don’t have. I can think of a few ways we can engage A LOT more people in looking after stuff and knowing when it’s missing. This includes:

 

·         Mapping of where the tools live and updating that when it changes (Wiki)

·         Making sure more members are comfortable using the Wiki and know where to find info and update it

·         Label stuff even more than we do now then map where that stuff lives. Maybe even a wall chart and bigger signage like “WOODWORKING” “METAL WORKING” and photos of those areas as they SHOULD BE.

·         Help put more inventory on the Wiki. David Clark has done sterling work on this and more info could be added that’s a ONE HIT as well as requires very little commitment after it’s been done.

·         SHADOW BOARDS when we put the peg board in we all pretty much agreed it could be done as a shadow board, this is used a lot in LEAN manufacturing (of which I am a qualified practitioner don’t ya know) and it’s immediately obvious if something is missing. This will need keeping up to date and a process for re-painting and re-arranging needs to be made fairly simple.

·         More storage for parts – separate out tools from parts, maybe colour code tools by area. For instance we have small screw drivers for electronics and also small ones for wood working same goes for pliers. I’d say we can put coloured tape to identify WHERE those tools should live.

·         More encouragement to put things away (CLEAR BENCH POLICY) and to report breakages.

·         A place for everything and everything in its place -  if all the tools have a proper place to live that could be a draw, a tools box or a shadow board then it’s much easier to put things away.

 

All of these things DO NOT require adoption. I agree that really BIG stuff like say the lathes or the laser need to be looked after properly. But spanners and screwdrivers just need to be put away. For instance the “good” screwdrivers and drill bits more or less get put away properly now they are so well labelled and it’s obvious where they live. This is a huge improvement from what it was... so I think more of the same?

 

Again what specific problem are we trying to solve? And is it actually a problem for us?

 

Dominic

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[James Hayward]

8? Which Hackspace are you a member of  :-)

In all seriousness, I think everything you said needs to be done, I also think some of that stuff (wiki stuff definitely) would be done by the adopted owner.

That said, I'm not precious about this at all, just thought it was an interesting idea.

Whilst I agree with you about the 80/20 split, I think we should be trying to change that ratio for the better, not plan things around it.  I'm really grateful for the work that David C, Max, Matt L, etc do in the workshop, but think that is a symptom of the problem - if those people suddenly stopped, we'd be buggered!

Also, I'm not just thinking of the tools in the workshop, but everything in the space. Literally everything, from the lathe to the network, from the sink to the tables, etc

J

[Dominic Morrow]

So who's volunteering? step right up. Usual rule applies I don't want to hear from the "sorry but..." or the "I would but..." people please :) 

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[James Hayward]

Just to be clear, I wasn't looking for volunteers today!  Was hoping we could have a discussion, which seems to be happening.

One of the things I think is really important that Dominic mentioned is getting the wiki up to date.  Lots of our members haven't got wiki access for whatever reason, and it seems like a lot of them see using the wiki as fairly difficult.  For those reasons, I'll set up a wiki workshop mid to late November that will take people through the basics of using the wiki and the specifics of using ours.  We can set up pages on the wiki for tools during those workshops.

It would be good if someone could take on some of the other tasks that Dominic mentioned.  I think these need doing before we get to a place where a tool is maintained and can be adopted:

On Oct 30, 2012 11:14 AM, "Dominic Morrow" <notti...@gmail.com> wrote

 

·         Mapping of where the tools live and updating that when it changes (Wiki)

[Wendy]

Well what ever you decide i would like to help... but i do need the correct knowledge on tools, at the moment i feel like an outsider, but thats no fault of any bodies really, i just have trouble coping with people!

but want to know more about all the mid size tools and help and i will not always be able to work on projects i want to, so checking things are working and the knowledge of them would be awesome for me and pottering about would suit me due to this.

So just let me know :)

[Lionel]

As a newbie, I am still feeling my way around but being a dinosaur, I am mostly familiar with hand tools. I should be happy to maintain edge tools on a demand basis; ie renovating and sharpening edge tools (chisels, planes, turning tools, when requested. I am not so sure about monitoring and will be able to get involved after the end of November.